S09.E09: The Longest Labor

[bichonblitz]

23 hours ago, Kyanight said:

Doesn't matter.  They gave her the money she needed, anyway.

How could they? Do they have money to give? She would not have gotten a dime from me, especially with her attitude and I had a gaggle of my own children to take care of. I would love to know the truth about how Meri got that house. 

[AmandaUnbidden]

On 3/11/2018 at 9:37 PM, Roslyn said:

Well, Kody did talk about Robyn giving birth and liking the fact that "she was a lady" and didn't make all of those disturbing screams and such.  It was her mother who taught her that a "lady" doesn't upset or disturb others during her giving birth...

Wow, I don't know if I'll even be able to watch the birthing scenes. What an ass to say that, not to mention, Robyn even saying that.

I used to give Robyn a pass on that because I thought she's older and was raised in an old fashioned way so that's why she thinks those things but then I found out she's 38, the same age as me! I was dumbstruck.

That is a terrible message though. I don't mind the message coming from a women that has given birth as much as I mind it coming from a man. No, just no. All women experience different levels of pain during birth. Some women really do have easier labors than others. Just because one woman can handle the pain without making a peep doesn't mean another woman can. If a woman needs to cry or even scream during labor then she should. Whatever she needs to do to get though the pain should be more than accepted especially by the man who impregnated her. 

[Kyanight]

2 minutes ago, Higgins said:

There is a "better to tear" movement along with "starve your baby before supplementing formula movement"

Self-righteous women make me vomit.  The guilt trips they place on new mothers who CAN'T breastfeed for whatever reason is horrible.  If something is right for YOU and works for YOU - go for it.  But to tell someone to starve a baby before giving them formula is shameful.      My last pregnancy resulted in identical premature twins - weighing 2 and 3 pounds.  The 2 pounder was in the NICU for 6 weeks, the 3 pounder for 4 weeks.  During that time I pumped milk - they weren't strong enough to breastfeed - the nurses said it is more work than a nipple and their oxygen stats would go way down when I tried to breastfeed them.  Well when all the dust settled I TRIED to feed both - but one twin ONLY would take a bottle and one only took the breast.  And no matter what I did I could never get enough milk for both.   Now I breastfed OTHER babies successfully before these two - I was not a first time breastfeeder, this wasn't new and scary for me - I was very comfortable with breastfeeding.  It's just one of those things.  My FORMULA fed twin was healthier than my breastfed twin.   So go figure.

[Granny58]

16 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

5000 years?  "Humans first evolved in Africa, and much of human evolution occurred on that continent. The fossils of early humans who lived between 6 and 2 million years ago come entirely from Africa. Most scientists currently recognize some 15 to 20 different species of early humans."  So we can assume they have been having babies for at least a million years, not 5000.

 

it was sarcasm.  

Edited March 13, 2018 by Granny58

[Kyanight]

Just now, Granny58 said:

it was sarcasm.  

oh.  :::blushes and feels mucho stupid:::::

[Granny58]

1 minute ago, Kyanight said:

oh.  :::blushes and feels mucho stupid:::::

LOL.  No worries.  We don't have a sarcasm font (and we need one!).

[kicotan]

2 hours ago, beeziebee said:

It's legal.  She won't be a felon.  And she can get her freak on.

Prostitution is not legal in Las Vegas...not sure if it is a felony, though.

On a side note, "Gigolos" is one of those reality shows with very little reality to it.  Male "escorts" are almost exclusively hired by men.

[Madding crowd]

I'm one of the people who don't hate Meri and actually feel sorry for her. I also have felt from day one that the feud between Meri and Janelle is grossly exaggerated for TV ratings; they are not friends, but they clearly have many rational conversations and get along as ok as they could considering they share a man. I also think Meri and many polygamists actually, grew up very sheltered and naive and all of her ideas about true love probably came from Disney movies.

And I certainly don't want to argue about this but: we have no idea what private conversations Meri and Kody have had. I don't believe for a minute that every word they spoke to each other was aired. So she may have apologized over and over about the catfish. I also have an unpopular catfish opinion: JO is a complete sociopath and I do not believe anything she says. Some of the items yes, but many could have been faked through photoshop or other means. She has shown herself to be quite good at faking things. I think Meri was neglected and made to feel not welcome, and she fell for someone who could give that fairy tale. Is is wrong? Maybe. I simply will never agree that a man sleeping with four women has some kind of high ground to stand on.

Getting back to the episode: a lot of pieces seems to be missing. We don't know why Chistine's mother is no longer in the picture. Could it be that Christine wants her around to help take care of her kids? Who knows. I also think Meri and her mother did not really need anything from the sister wives and it was all for the show. Kody sees this as a way to get rid of Meri. I keep seeing posts that Meri should be taking care of Robyn or Christine's kids. Since neither of them have a job and both have live in help, I assume that is neither needed or wanted.   And why is Meri considered useless when Kody is an able bodied man who neither works nor takes care of his own children? When Meri came in with Mariah and Audrey to see Maddie, I could see she felt like she didn't even have the right to knock on the door and see what was going on-that is how bad they are making things for her. 

Finally, I hope Maddie finds a different midwife if she has another child. As I mentioned before: it's not that there is anything wrong with a child being exposed to germs; we all are at some point. It's that the midwife made it a point to say a newborn baby needs to be exposed to bacteria and dirt and that a dirty bathtub is the same as being exposed to breast milk. Yes, women gave birth in all kinds of unclean places, but not all of the babies or mothers survived. I know of no medical professional that would actively suggest a newborn be exposed to a dirty surface. I also think she ignored the fact that at some point, Maddie's labor appeared to be in danger and instead she just sent the assistant who did nothing. 

I had my child in the hospital but a few people I know had midwifes and they all were very warm, supportive and there with the mother to explain everything. And they were also quick to suggest the hospital if there was any chance of a problem. Again, these people are both naive and trying to be 'outlaws', but don't risk a newborn baby. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Madding crowd

[Higgins]

18 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

Self-righteous women make me vomit.  The guilt trips they place on new mothers who CAN'T breastfeed for whatever reason is horrible.  If something is right for YOU and works for YOU - go for it.  But to tell someone to starve a baby before giving them formula is shameful.      My last pregnancy resulted in identical premature twins - weighing 2 and 3 pounds.  The 2 pounder was in the NICU for 6 weeks, the 3 pounder for 4 weeks.  During that time I pumped milk - they weren't strong enough to breastfeed - the nurses said it is more work than a nipple and their oxygen stats would go way down when I tried to breastfeed them.  Well when all the dust settled I TRIED to feed both - but one twin ONLY would take a bottle and one only took the breast.  And no matter what I did I could never get enough milk for both.   Now I breastfed OTHER babies successfully before these two - I was not a first time breastfeeder, this wasn't new and scary for me - I was very comfortable with breastfeeding.  It's just one of those things.  My FORMULA fed twin was healthier than my breastfed twin.   So go figure.

Yes and dangerous too.

[Normades]

44 minutes ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

I agree 100%. I was thinking back to what Maddie said about people in the US having the wrong idea about home birth or something like that. I agree with her partially but there is a reason most women have their babies in a hospital here in the US. I believe in some countries it is the norm to have the baby at home so much so that they have real certified midwives that accompany them and make sure everything goes smoothly or get the women to a hospital in plenty of time if something goes amiss. 

The problem with home births in the US is that they're not the norm. It's kind of a new trend I think, and many women like Maddie don't know what credentials to look for to make sure they are getting a fully qualified midwife that will be able to handle the birth safely. Not to mention, I don't know if the midwife thing is fully regulated everywhere in the US like it is in other countries ensuring that every midwife is fully qualified like doctors are.

I also think Maddie was very naive going into this home birth, and I blame this whole recent home birth trend combined with young uneducated new mothers to be that do not fully understand the dangers that can happen during birth. And it doesn't seem like the midwife she used knew what she was doing because it seems insane to allow her to be in labor that long without thinking something is amiss. 

Oh and it really annoys me when women, especially really young, really uneducated women like our Maddie, laugh at women that prefer a hospital birth as though we are being ridiculous. I mean don't you know? Women have been having a babies since the beginning of time and we're all still here, except for those who aren't. Except for the countless women and babies lost in childbirth due to lack of medical knowledge, technology, etc. Maddie is lucky in her case that a long, painful labor is all that she endured. 

Exactly!  I said something similar in a Duggar thread where one of their girls went the home birth route and ended up in trouble, which seems to be a theme with them.  Do these young women not realize women and children DIE in childbirth??!!  It is serious.  There are so many things that can go wrong that I don't feel it's worth the risk just for the luxury of being in your own bed.  Most hospitals have nice birthing suites, so the days of being moved for labor, delivery and recovery are mostly gone.  The many women who lost their lives or children in birth would be really grateful to have the wonderful doctors and facilities we have today.  I think some of this trend comes from being too far removed from the dark days of birthing where deaths were a common occurrence.  Yes, many women can do fine without intervention, but many cannot.  As someone who could not, I am glad I didn't go with a home.  For me, the chance that my child might need immediate intervention was enough to say it's not worth the gamble. 

Having the longest labor without medical intervention does not earn you a medal, but it just might cost a life.  

[MV713]

I'm late to the party just having watched now.

Utah...felons...law...polygamists...state...property...legislation... blah fucking blah. WHO CARES! So sick of hearing about it already, let it go Browns!  You are not in jail.

Meri - when did your accent get so pronounced?  Fill   dill   FAM-LEE  over and over, so sick of it.

I actually like Kody now - I think he'd love to kick Meri to the curb.  

[xwordfanatik]

@LilWharveyGal, I saw the Space Needle in the preview, and I groaned (I'm in WA.)  It's enough to know that FT and Mykelti honeymooned there.  Now Meri and her "clown clothes" showed up there, ugh!  

Are Mariah and Audrey trying for a spin-off show?  I'd watch it, only if they never had Meri guesting, and if they have a boy, they'd HAVE to name him Sam!  

Love your recaps.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought that Kody was employed. He works outside the home, as does Janelle. Meri and Robyn have their home businesses and then Christine....not sure that Christine works outside of the home or in home sales like Robyn and Meri. Maybe, she helps Robyn out. Plus, they all work on the show and get income from TLC. I consider that a job, since it requires time, energy and you pay taxes on the money you get paid. 

[Kath94]

4 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

You forgot the dog biscuits.

Least likely:  cleaning products.

Brilliant recap, as always.

Oh, I think so.  It's probably the only way non-Mormons can stand to live there.

 

Or those wooden kind with the hole for a face.  You, too, can sport a caveman hairdo!

I like this idea, but I'd like to expand on it.  A life-size wooden stand-up of Kody and all 4 wives, with a fifth body and hole for a face so YOU TOO can be the next Brown sister wife!  Haha!

[SunnyBeBe]

With those who have looked at the B&B paperwork purchase....do you recall how MANY BEDROOMS there are listed?

[LilWharveyGal]

22 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

@LilWharveyGal, I saw the Space Needle in the preview, and I groaned (I'm in WA.)  It's enough to know that FT and Mykelti honeymooned there.  Now Meri and her "clown clothes" showed up there, ugh!  

Ugh is right!  I remember Meri held a pop-up LLR event up here, but I had no idea that filming was involved, let alone that it was part of the Mariah Reconciliation World Tour.

I guess if we survived FT&M we can survive anything!

[Galloway Cave]

1 hour ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

So I think that's why he would be even more worried about owning property there than before.

I posted about this in another thread, but the reason Kody has his little girl panties in a wad about losing property is because of the Jeffs welfare fraud case in Colorado City. The sect committed a huge $11 million food stamp fraud case and had property seized in that case. It is something that just recently happened and something Kody can point to. Of course Arizona and Utah will seize property in plyg cases if it is involved in substantial felony cases, like the FLDS food stamp case, if someone is selling child brides out of their home (like Warren did), or a worse-case scenario of a plyg abusing child brides, serious welfare fraud and child abuse. But in Meri's situation, she and Kody are divorced and he has publicly stated they are not cohabitating in Nevada. There is no way the B&B will be seized unless Meri is conducting illegal activity there that falls under other forfeiture laws.

[Sandy W]

On 3/12/2018 at 1:01 PM, Kyanight said:

Doesn't matter.  They gave her the money she needed, anyway.

I have a 'fillin' the money came from the sale of Meri's mothers house, as it should have if she expects to be a non-participating resident there, occupying a bedroom that could be rented out to the hordes of people stampeding for a room at the inn.

[VedaPierce]

1 hour ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

I agree 100%. I was thinking back to what Maddie said about people in the US having the wrong idea about home birth or something like that. I agree with her partially but there is a reason most women have their babies in a hospital here in the US. I believe in some countries it is the norm to have the baby at home so much so that they have real certified midwives that accompany them and make sure everything goes smoothly or get the women to a hospital in plenty of time if something goes amiss. 

The problem with home births in the US is that they're not the norm. It's kind of a new trend I think, and many women like Maddie don't know what credentials to look for to make sure they are getting a fully qualified midwife that will be able to handle the birth safely. Not to mention, I don't know if the midwife thing is fully regulated everywhere in the US like it is in other countries ensuring that every midwife is fully qualified like doctors are.

I also think Maddie was very naive going into this home birth, and I blame this whole recent home birth trend combined with young uneducated new mothers to be that do not fully understand the dangers that can happen during birth. And it doesn't seem like the midwife she used knew what she was doing because it seems insane to allow her to be in labor that long without thinking something is amiss. 

Oh and it really annoys me when women, especially really young, really uneducated women like our Maddie, laugh at women that prefer a hospital birth as though we are being ridiculous. I mean don't you know? Women have been having a babies since the beginning of time and we're all still here, except for those who aren't. Except for the countless women and babies lost in childbirth due to lack of medical knowledge, technology, etc. Maddie is lucky in her case that a long, painful labor is all that she endured. 

Exactly! I also know women that have gone in for a regular labor/delivery and ended up getting emergency c-sections immediately due to complications and/or baby distress. Is the midwife able to perform a c-section? Is she able to monitor the baby's heartbeat during delivery, like they monitored my baby's, who was hooked up to a new-fangled machine made for such a purpose? I don't know about the home births. So much can go wrong, why, with the luxury of all the modern medical resources at our disposal, would someone intentionally risk their baby's life? 

[VedaPierce]

19 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I thought the magical B&B was creepy and totally lacking in charm. I kept looking at the outside shots of the house and thinking about what could be done to make it inviting. First paint the front door a nice color, add some shutters to the windows, put some rocking chairs out there on the porch so guests can sit out there, add some hanging plants. Also, that back porch where they were sitting talking "business" looked like shit.  As far as the interior, get rid of the crappy old carpet and put in some hardwood floors and new bedding. It looks dirty in there. Looks like Miss Victoria has not bothered to do a thing to that house in years. Good luck with your ugly new place, Meri. I hope she has some money left over for improvements. 

 

In other words...a money pit. And you're just talking about the cosmetics!

I bet there's a new hot water heater, new washer/dryer, new dishwasher and duct work for central AC. And I'm sure there are no leaky pipes and the windows are new and energy efficient. Oh, and the roof is new too. ;) yeah, right.  

Edited March 13, 2018 by VedaPierce

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought that Kody was employed. He works outside the home, as does Janelle. Meri and Robyn have their home businesses and then Christine....not sure that Christine works outside of the home or in home sales like Robyn and Meri. Maybe, she helps Robyn out. Plus, they all work on the show and get income from TLC. I consider that a job, since it requires time, energy and you pay taxes on the money you get paid. 

Kody is not employed as far as we know-if he had a job we would have heard about it. Janelle works occasionally for an online website/diet thing called Strive, but it doesn't appear she is making money on it. Robyn still has the online jewelry business but does not appear very invested in it and sales are poor. The show income is their livelihood and there is no reason at least a few of them couldn't work full time. Both Robyn and Christine have help in the home, Meri has no children at home and Janelle's kids are all in school. General laziness all around.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Madding crowd
Clarity

[luvmylabs]

2 hours ago, Kyanight said:

Self-righteous women make me vomit.  The guilt trips they place on new mothers who CAN'T breastfeed for whatever reason is horrible.  If something is right for YOU and works for YOU - go for it.  But to tell someone to starve a baby before giving them formula is shameful.      My last pregnancy resulted in identical premature twins - weighing 2 and 3 pounds.  The 2 pounder was in the NICU for 6 weeks, the 3 pounder for 4 weeks.  During that time I pumped milk - they weren't strong enough to breastfeed - the nurses said it is more work than a nipple and their oxygen stats would go way down when I tried to breastfeed them.  Well when all the dust settled I TRIED to feed both - but one twin ONLY would take a bottle and one only took the breast.  And no matter what I did I could never get enough milk for both.   Now I breastfed OTHER babies successfully before these two - I was not a first time breastfeeder, this wasn't new and scary for me - I was very comfortable with breastfeeding.  It's just one of those things.  My FORMULA fed twin was healthier than my breastfed twin.   So go figure.

I thought we women were supposed to support each other.  I went to a La Leche meeting where the women there claimed breast fed babies were smarter, healthier, had better teeth, better everything than bottle fed.  I am a big supporter of breast feeding, but come on!  Thank God that there are formulas for babies who can't be breast fed.  Stop placing guilt on others for their choices.  Do what is right for YOU and your baby will thrive.  As for Kody,  I can't even accurately express my disgust at his behavior...g...d.. know it all...really a know NOTHING!!!!  Who the hell does he think he is.  It should have been Maddie, her husband, and the mid-wife....not that whole damn circus.  Dear God, the thought of my dad being there when I gave birth...UGH!!!

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

Kody is not employed as far as we know-if he had a job we would have heard about it. Janelle works occasionally for an online website/diet thing called Strive, but it doesn't appear she is making money on it. Robyn still has the online jewelry business but does not appear very invested in it and sales are poor. The show income is their livelihood and there is no reason at least a few of them couldn't work full time. Both Robyn and Christine have help in the home, Meri has no children at home and Janelle's kids are all in school. General laziness all around.

Here's one magazine's opinion.  It's from a year ago . . . and I don't think they're far off.  

[Kyanight]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought that Kody was employed. He works outside the home

No he does not work outside the home.    "Kody was never clear about what he did for a living, though he’d make mention of some sort of online ad sales work. It appears that he’s no longer involved in that, and instead, the family has been living off their earnings from the TLC reality series."

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

Sorry, I'm responding to things as I read the thread so didn't mean to post so many different replies. 

@ghoulina About what you said about Maddie not being in active labor the entire time. That makes a lot of more sense. (I have to apologize again. I have been commenting and replying before I even finished watching the show. I haven't even gotten to Maddie's labor yet.) I was going off the 65 hours of labor crap. It makes more sense that she was having Braxton Hicks or whatever they call them now or just the early contractions where it's not necessary to even go to the hospital yet. But had her water broken yet? My water broke before my contractions even started, and I was told at that time I needed to deliver within 24 hours of my water breaking to keep the baby from getting an infection or something or other. Sorry, my child is 17 now so I can't really remember exactly. So she could've been in trouble if she was laboring for 65 hours after water breaking but that doesn't sound like that was the case. 

And on having a home birth, I could see how it would be a whole lot better in some ways. I desperately wanted to get up and walk around because I was having intense contractions felt in my lower back but they made me stay laying on my back the entire time. It sucked. And I had my child at a tiny hospital where there was only one anesthesiologist, and he went to lunch when I was dilated to 4 so I didn't get my epideral until I was at an 8 so I didn't even get the benefit of much pain relief anyway. I did have to have an episiotomy so I think that was a plus. I pushed for over an hour before the dr cut me. What happens in home births when your opening isn't big enough for the baby to pass through? Do you just tear? I wouldn't be too happy about that. 

I don't think it was ever disclosed when her water broke. She certainly never announced it during all that. I can't speak for this midwife specifically, but I don't know any midwife who would let a woman go THAT long after her water breaking without delivering. So, no, I don't believe Maddie's broke during those early days when she was likely just in prodormal labor. 

FTR, not all women's waters break before labor. Or even during. With both my boys, my water was broken for me, well into active labor. With my daughter, the bag burst and flew out AS I was pushing her out. She wasn't born in the caul, but I swear that thing was in tact for a minute as it popped out before she did. It looked like I was giving birth to a giant bubble! 

As for tearing - I tore badly with my first and that was a hospital birth. Sometimes there's not much you can do. Midwives can cut and sew you. Midwives attended all of my births from start to finish. So they did my episiotomies. But I have noticed that midwives are a lot more patient during labor. They would sit there and massage the perineum and really try to soften it up while pushing, trying to avoid an epi as best they could. 

2 hours ago, Higgins said:

There is a "better to tear" movement along with "starve your baby before supplementing formula movement"

Wow. Um, I don't know about the second, but from my experience - I healed a million times better when I tore on my own vs. being cut. 

 

1 hour ago, VedaPierce said:

Exactly! I also know women that have gone in for a regular labor/delivery and ended up getting emergency c-sections immediately due to complications and/or baby distress. Is the midwife able to perform a c-section? Is she able to monitor the baby's heartbeat during delivery, like they monitored my baby's, who was hooked up to a new-fangled machine made for such a purpose? I don't know about the home births. So much can go wrong, why, with the luxury of all the modern medical resources at our disposal, would someone intentionally risk their baby's life? 

Of course there are going to be unforseen complications. But most complications ARE forseen, and a midwife will tell you that you're not a candidate for a home birth if you're at risk for complications. Midwives bring all kinds of equipment to their home births - dopplars, IVs, oxygen, rescusitation equipment. They ARE prepared to transfer mom to hospital if need be.  I've read multiple studies from here in the US, as well as various other countries and the outcomes of home birth are statistically just as safe as those of hospital births. One study I read, which followed 17,000 women, showed that only 1% of babies required a hospital transfer. No infant deaths. 

I'm of the opinion that, while some interventions are necessary and life saving, many interventions are overused these days and are actually the CAUSE of many hospital complications. You don't see that as much in home births, because the midwife is allowing baby to come in its time. 

I respect ALL women's decision about how they want to birth their babies, but I really do not care for the notion that women who choose to birth at home are risking their baby's life, in it for the drama, trying to win a medal, etc. That sounds, to me, just as narrow-minded and judgy as the moms who put others down for not nursing or not choosing a home birth. All the women I know who chose a home birth did so because they truly felt it was best for themselves and their family, and it was a good experience. 

[Gothish520]

3 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

Forgive my bluntness but I need to say this. Meri just wants Kody dick. End. of. story. I feel like Meri is just like the house situation where Meri said if she and her mom could get away with just buying/living in the house without having to run it as a B&B she would. That is where Meri's mind is at. She wants get away with being put back into regular wifely rotation without having to atone or answer for her prior actions and no sister wife obligations. She ain't trying to watch or raise no sister wife kids, help clean no one's house, have extra people stay in that big empty house of hers. None of that.  She just wants Kody to throw a little D her way now and again. She is the new Christine (former lowest wife on the totem pole, now seeming a strong #2 fave) with an Eeyore personality and little to no ray of hope of it getting any better. 

 Never gonna happen. I think Meri is physically incapable of ever owning up to her culpability in the catfishing situation. It is just not in her DNA.  With all the physical evidence on the world wide web showing how into "Sam" she really was (actual voicemails, texts, emails, suggestive photos, trips), Meri is still out here claiming that they all were either outright doctored or forgeries and those that she can't claim are fakes she claims she was blackmailed into doing because she was being stalked by "Sam" who threatened to hurt the family. In her mind, they should see her as part victim/part hero. 

But even if she could own up to it, Meri would have to do a lot of things she shows no inclination of wanting to do - actual live and embrace all the so called benefits of having and being a sister wife. This latest episode was a prime example. When she went over to Janelle's the 1st time, Meri actually said 'she didn't want to overstay her welcome' and left. Overstay her welcome? She isn't a family friend or next door neighbor. According to the tenets they swear by, she is just as much a mom to Madison as Janelle. Hell, Robyn and Christine didn't get an invitation. They invited themselves over and literally pulled up a fold out chair to watch like it was the latest Marvel movie.  Meri acts like she needs an engraved invitation or the red carpet rolled out. It isn't the other wives jobs to make her feel included. She needs to include herself and make herself useless in the process.  She did wrong. Not them. She has been pulling away from the family for years. Not them. She needs to prove herself, but frankly, I don't think she believes it is worth it because it is unlikely to lead to getting the D from Kody so in her mind why bother?

You are probably right on the money here! 

In her Talking Heads, Meri never seems to say anything that indicates she gives a flying fig about anyone else in the family except Mariah, Kody, and maybe Solomon. Of course, that could be editing, but still. She flat-out said she was going to the march in Washington because of Mariah and didn't give a crap about her relationship with Janelle or the march itself. She said she doesn't care what Christine or the others think about buying the house, she wants it, end of story. Then why are you subjecting the rest of the adults to this dog and pony show? 

I get that she and Mariah had a rough time, and it really is nice to see that they are mending their relationship. But she is acting like that is the only thing that matters to her, that and getting Kody's attention again. Like I said, could be editing, who knows.

[Pingaponga]

On 3/12/2018 at 9:58 AM, ghoulina said:

Maybe I'm the lone one here, but I saw nothing about this labor that warranted a big freak-out or a rush to a hospital. I felt like TLC was just trying to amp things up for the show. But it was just a typical, tough first labor. I never saw anything that made me think Maddie was in any kind of trouble. 

You're not the only one.  Until contractions become painful, labour's not really a big deal.  Frankly, I think labour should officially start when you can no longer sit through a contraction, but that may just be me.

[ghoulina]

12 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

You're not the only one.  Until contractions become painful, labour's not really a big deal.  Frankly, I think labour should officially start when you can no longer sit through a contraction, but that may just be me.

Yea, my midwife told me not to worry until I couldn't talk through them. Maddie was chatting, eating, sleeping, moving around at will. 

That last day, when she had to stop coming down the stairs and breathe through it? THAT was labor. 

[Absolom]

47 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Wow. Um, I don't know about the second, but from my experience - I healed a million times better when I tore on my own vs. being cut. 

Yep.  That's what the surgeon told me.  I had a bad episiotomy experience and needed reparative surgery.  The surgeon asked if we wanted more kids and said wait for the next baby then.  He told me that the OB would have to let me tear as tears were always easier on the mother and actually healed better than episiotomies.  For me he was right.  He also told me episiotomies can actually cause more tearing.  Episiotomies are easier and quicker to stitch up.  This was a surgeon whose specialty was making that kind of repair.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

On 3/11/2018 at 9:59 PM, TeeMo said:

Did Janelle have some sort of raggedy ass hair extensions hanging off the mirror in her bedroom? 

They probably were Kody's

[Natalie68]

On 3/11/2018 at 6:59 PM, Pollo Loco said:

Good god, what was with the spectator crowd?? Literally sitting around on folding chairs watching Madison in labour like it's a side show. Is there a special relationship between Robyn's kids and Madison that I missed as they're still sitting in the bathroom watching all this? Caleb was not impressed with everyone in there but seemed hesitant to say anything due to the polygamy aspect. 

Was there a snow cone and cotton candy machine?  I may be weird but I don't want everyone watching me like a Real Housewives reunion when something is going to come squeezing out of my nether region.  

[Normades]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

In her Talking Heads, Meri never seems to say anything that indicates she gives a flying fig about anyone else in the family except Mariah, Kody, and maybe Solomon.

She only cared about Solomon because it was a way to get in Kody's good graces.  She was totally using that little child.  Narcissists are like that.

[islandgal140]

Good lawd did Madison labor. I get that it wasn't all hard true labor but what a long process. I thought the reaction shots of the girls outside the door were touching and so endearing. 

During the baby shower an episode or 2 ago, was I the only one that heard one of the sister wives say during the blind folded baby changing contest between Kody and Caleb that Kody had changed less than half a dozen diapers?!?! The man has 18 kids!! How is that not fucked up! 

[Natalie68]

On 3/11/2018 at 9:33 PM, TeeMo said:

I am not all the way through the episode yet but in this first part it honestly seems like Christine is the only one of the sister wives (including Janelle) who is at all excited about becoming a Grandma. Her excitement when Maddie came to see if she had any tomato soup was real and palpable. And in the couch scene when she asked what everyone else was going to be called, she legitimately seemed like the only one who even cares. I get what Janelle was saying about letting the kid decide what to call her but she was so unenthusiastic about it. And Meri always feels like she is trying too hard these days when she tries to cater to the other wives "I think YOU should definitely be Grandma, Janelle, just you." Shut up, Meri. 

Maddie also seemed to be able to barely tolerate Robyn as evidenced by the scene where they meet up out in the middle of that damn cul-de-sac and Robyn nervously asks "Can I hang out with you for a while?" and Maddie says "Yeah, you're fine" in the most monotone voice. Of course when Robyn started giving advice like the she is the only woman to have birthed a child, I understood why Maddie was less than excited to "hang out for a while." Robyn: "Have you tried squatting yet?" Maddie: "No." Robyn in her judgiest smug jaw voice:"Well, why not??" followed by her expert squatting example. Shut up, Robyn. 

I am older than Christine but I have to say if I had to choose any of them to be my mom it would be her.  The MOM is just oozing out of her and she seems like she would be the best at it out of the others.  Yes she is manic, yes she married an idiot, yes she puts a k at the end of her ing's, but I can see her being good at comforting you etc.  

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

1 minute ago, Natalie68 said:

I am older than Christine but I have to say if I had to choose any of them to be my mom it would be her.  The MOM is just oozing out of her and she seems like she would be the best at it out of the others.  Yes she is manic, yes she married an idiot, yes she puts a k at the end of her ing's, but I can see her being good at comforting you etc.  

And don't forget her voice of an angel sinGinG...  lol

[Jeanne222]

I can hardly watch Meri anymore.  Anybody else feel that way?  Did she really get that house in Utah?  Now both she and her motive alone in gigantic homes meant for families!  Uggg.

[Tabbygirl521]

4 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

@LilWharveyGal, I saw the Space Needle in the preview, and I groaned (I'm in WA.)  It's enough to know that FT and Mykelti honeymooned there.  Now Meri and her "clown clothes" showed up there, ugh!  

Are Mariah and Audrey trying for a spin-off show?  I'd watch it, only if they never had Meri guesting, and if they have a boy, they'd HAVE to name him Sam!  

Love your recaps.  

Hmmmm, perhaps a PNW viewing party is in order for this ep...heh...Quite a few of us here. 

I have no biokids so I probably don’t know what i’m talking about, but if Maddie’s water HAD broken early, wouldn’t it have been a bad idea for her to sit in a not-sterile tub of water off and on for days? I am thinking the water didn’t break till later. 

Also what did they mean when they said that sitting in water was slowing her labor? I am puzzled. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Tabbygirl521

[laurakaye]

19 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Meri darkens the door. 

Whoa, did anyone else feel a chill when they read that line?!

I don't know how I missed it the first time.  I always read your recaps at least twice, @LilWharveyGal.  I hope you write for a living because if you don't, the world is crying.

 

6 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Well, if we use "Meri-logic," she should have the money because if she had had the houseful of kids she wanted, the cost of all their college educations would have been more than the cost of the B&B.  Right?

Bwahahaha, this is both hilarious and spot-on.  And the thing is, in actual reality, this is exactly what Meri is thinking.  To the letter.

 

6 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

How could they? Do they have money to give? She would not have gotten a dime from me, especially with her attitude and I had a gaggle of my own children to take care of. I would love to know the truth about how Meri got that house. 

The other wives shouldn't have given one freaking dime to Meri given that Ysabel, their collective child, may need to undergo surgery.  Adults put aside the things they WANT for the things they NEED.  And when you are a sister wife and you think it's awesome and you wouldn't have it any other way, then every last one of the kids from your shared man belong to YOU, Meri.

Again, I would love to know the reactions of the kids when they watch this show.  Ysabel could need surgery, but guess what?  There's a house in Parowan, Utah, that Meri wants.  Wants.  Now.  Belongs to her.  Money no object.  Family support not necessary - except for their checkbooks.  Wants.  Nowwwwwwwwwww.

One last note - if we'd all taken a shot every time Meri said "Parowen, Utah," how many of us wouldn't have made it halfway through the two hours?  (**raises hand**)

Edited March 13, 2018 by laurakaye

[Kyanight]

27 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

During the baby shower an episode or 2 ago, was I the only one that heard one of the sister wives say during the blind folded baby changing contest between Kody and Caleb that Kody had changed less than half a dozen diapers?!?! The man has 18 kids!! How is that not fucked up!

There is no excuse for that.  What's the big deal?  My husband changed at least as many diapers as I did!  Didn't matter if it was poop or not.

[Alapaki]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Of course there are going to be unforseen complications. But most complications ARE forseen, and a midwife will tell you that you're not a candidate for a home birth if you're at risk for complications. Midwives bring all kinds of equipment to their home births - dopplars, IVs, oxygen, rescusitation equipment. They ARE prepared to transfer mom to hospital if need be.  I've read multiple studies from here in the US, as well as various other countries and the outcomes of home birth are statistically just as safe as those of hospital births. One study I read, which followed 17,000 women, showed that only 1% of babies required a hospital transfer. No infant deaths. 

From a CDC study reported in the New York Times:
 

Quote

 

They examined both early death (within seven days of birth) and neonatal death (within 28 days) among singleton full-term babies without congenital malformations. No matter how they parsed the numbers, babies born outside hospitals had higher rates of death.

Over all, babies delivered by midwives at home had nearly four times the risk for death compared with those delivered by hospital-based midwives, with the risk highest if the birth was the woman’s first. With 25,000 home births per year in the United States, this means about 23 additional neonatal deaths annually.

* * *

The researchers write that these results almost certainly underestimate the actual neonatal death rates in home and birthing center deliveries, because infants with complications are often transferred to hospitals, and the C.D.C. counts any subsequent death as a hospital outcome.

 

[Natalie68]

On 3/12/2018 at 12:59 PM, DakotaJustice said:

I think Meri misses sex and wants to get laid. And despite Kody pontificating about how they won't cohabitate during the road trip she was hoping to change his mind. 

While I am not watching I am thinking Kody is enjoying being a dick to her.  I am sure he got tired of the Meri tantrums and is sort of paying her back.  He is also probably still mad/hurt that she was emotionally cheating on him in front of the entire viewing audience, that she has treated her sister wives with disdain, that she always had to have exactly what the others had despite having no need or the finances to really be equal to all, and she has a stank 'tude.  

[Natalie68]

18 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

Rockland Ranch.  I've read that there are scorpions and other critters that abound inside the homes.  https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2012/11/polygamists-in-the-rock/100406/

Like what????!!!!!  I scanned the article looking for creepy crawlie info and didn't see it.  

[Natalie68]

7 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

The mortgage company is Stearns Lending, not a bank. They specialize in risky mortgages and she could have put down as little as 3.5%. 

Shades of 2007-08.

Plus, the property records show she purchased the place with a "Second Home Rider" that states she will be the only one living there and it's not to be used for business. Hmmmmmm.

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-nonbank-lenders-20151130-story.html#ampshare=http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-nonbank-lenders-20151130-story.html

Interesting!!! So what happens when they find out its being used as a business?

[AmandaUnbidden]

Okay, finally got to finish this show and see the birth. God I hate Kody. He's such an ass. When he told Maddie to relax her face but she didn't want to hear it, he went off pouting like a two year old and whining, "Fine, not like I haven't done this a few times or anything." I mean really?! I wanted to throat punch him. I don't care if he's seen a thousand births. He has never given birth. He isn't a OB Gyn or certified midwife or labor and delivery nurse that would have special knowledge here. Kody, you don't know everything and what you do know is limited at best, so just sit down and shut up!

Sorry for the rant. Kody just annoyed the crap out of me this episode. I am glad Maddie and baby were okay. Poor girl pushed for 3 and a half hours! I can't even imagine.

[laurakaye]

I don't know what would be worse during childbirth - my labor being turned into a seated General Admission event, my dad being all up in my business where my husband should rightfully be, or my husband breathing his Chinese food breath into my face whilst wearing his Superman jammies.

You guys, these people.

[Emma C]

I haven't read through the whole thread yet, so forgive me if this has been said.... I would never, ever, EVER have (1) a home birth, (2) a birth without an epidural, (3) a birth without my OBGYN who I love.... that said, I don't judge the way any woman chooses to give birth. BUT, in the hours leading up to my hospital birth, you are not allowed to eat at all (in case you need an emergency C/S), so I spent about 14 hours hungry! Jealous of Maddie eating soup and grilled cheese, that's all I'm sayin.

 

P.S. To whoever cried during this episode, it's impossible NOT to cry when a baby is born. I witnessed my neice's birth, and my own two children (duh), cried me a river every time.

 

P.P.S. No way should a woman's father be a witness to her giving birth. Just. Wrong.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Emma C
forgot Kody is a weirdo

[AmandaUnbidden]

5 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

I posted about this in another thread, but the reason Kody has his little girl panties in a wad about losing property is because of the Jeffs welfare fraud case in Colorado City. The sect committed a huge $11 million food stamp fraud case and had property seized in that case. It is something that just recently happened and something Kody can point to. Of course Arizona and Utah will seize property in plyg cases if it is involved in substantial felony cases, like the FLDS food stamp case, if someone is selling child brides out of their home (like Warren did), or a worse-case scenario of a plyg abusing child brides, serious welfare fraud and child abuse. But in Meri's situation, she and Kody are divorced and he has publicly stated they are not cohabitating in Nevada. There is no way the B&B will be seized unless Meri is conducting illegal activity there that falls under other forfeiture laws.

Okay, that makes sense. As I think about it more, it doesn't make much sense for the Browns to be worrying about their property being seized. I could see them being worried about arrest if they all took up living in UT again but yeah, you would think they would have to be committing some other crime like welfare fraud to justify getting their property seized. 

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, Kyanight said:

There is no excuse for that.  What's the big deal?  My husband changed at least as many diapers as I did!  Didn't matter if it was poop or not.

I was confused by that because at first they made it sound like he was an expert and then they said the stuff about how many he had changed. Maybe he only changed that many of that Sister Wife's kids, but changed more of the other wives' kids? I don't know. He did do a good job on the doll though, lol.

[albarino]

I am fairly new to this program and I am definitely not a supporter of plural marriage.  I would definitely go into the program saying I'm one of five adults and I get a fifth of the TLC cut.  If Kody wants to see a business case analysis of Meri's B&B plan, I'd ask for his BCA regarding having 4 wives and 18 kids.  That is complete crap--family planning is a critical component of a family's finances.  But, as I said, I'm not a proponent of plural marriage and I've gone through life making sure our careers could support our family.

[Kyanight]

3 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I was confused by that because at first they made it sound like he was an expert and then they said the stuff about how many he had changed. Maybe he only changed that many of that Sister Wife's kids, but changed more of the other wives' kids? I don't know. He did do a good job on the doll though, lol.

Kody doesn't seem like a "diaper changer" type dad to me.