S02.E16: Vegas, Baby

[Biggie B]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I can see Randall making sure Deja always had a way to contact him and Beth.

I overlooked the obvious - certainly Randall was providing for the cell phone. Just had a senior moment there!

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I read that the show runner considered this a light-hearted episode. I guess it was compared to Jack's death and the immediate aftermath episodes, but this wasn't exactly  a laughfest.

Kate said that she and Randall hung out together the year after Jack died. I wonder where Kevin was.

Marrying Sophie?

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I know people get sick of Jack's great romantic gestures but as someone sick of all the shitty men we're currently enduring, it's nice to watch a good one every once in a while.

While I don't like the grand gestures, small romantic gestures are nice - and I wanted  my husband to hear the advice he gave to Kevin (it's not about...)

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Kevin was left out again, but that's alright with me. I'm just glad it seems like he didn't take any of the 27 bottles of alcohol in his room. I thought for sure Renata was going to find one or two missing. Or maybe she did and she took the money anyway. . 

What was he left out of?

 

10 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Not a bad return, but was rolling my eyes through a lot of it.  With the exception of the lights in the bedroom and the meteor shower, I found the anniversary stuff to be really saccharine.  Nothing wrong with a quiet anniversary, like Rebecca actually asked for.  And Jack thought he was slick, egging on his kids to go through with it.  All I envisioned was a mess for Rebecca to clean up.  But Jack is God's Gift to Marriage, so whatever. 

My take was that Kevin was the one who instigated - and Jack did happily take it on, but I didn't think he was egging them on. They were doing that themselves. I did think it would end differently with everyone asking Rebecca for help - I thought we'd have a scene with an argument about that.

10 hours ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

The piano was a grand gesture, IMO

More like an upright gesture. ;)

2 hours ago, Trillian said:

Didn’t think it was odd that Kate and Beth had never bonded. I like both of my sisters-in-law well enough, but can’t think of a single heart-to-heart I’ve had with either one in the 25 years or so each has been in my life. We chat pleasantly at family gatherings, but don’t seek each other out as friends. Of course, we all have actual friends, unlike Kate.

I never bonded with any of my sisters-in-law (my brother was a serial monogamist, lost track of how many wives he had exactly). But his first wife was extremely jealous of any time he spent talking to me (they lived with us briefly). So I kind of understand Kate's reaction (in reverse, I guess).

1 hour ago, Phoebe70 said:

I may be in the minority, but I'm not a fan of Kevin.  That whole soliloquy with the maid about the 27 bottles of booze was ridiculous.  I'm sure she had many rooms to clean and didn't give a rat's butt about his alcoholism.  It's Kevin's World and we just live in it (eye roll).

And Toby telling Kevin to call Ron Howard was just bad advice.  I almost wished that Kevin's role in the film had been cut out.  Everything always ends up working out for the golden boy.

I thought he was going to have her remove the bottles, which made the most sense. But the Pearsons do love their speechifying. I thought it was bad advice too - but loved the result of it.

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Marrying Sophie?

The timing confused me - since he apparently dated the stripper from Randall's bachelor party.

[PRgal]

I want to be sexy Vegas chick like Beth!! :) 

[milner]

1 hour ago, Phoebe70 said:

Kate, well, I'm sorry but she looks like she is getting even heavier.  When she was sitting on the couch with Toby in that flowered dress, she just looked so uncomfortable.  I really hope she loses weight, not for vanity reasons, but for her health.

Thank you PHOEBE I have been concerned about this for some time but fear of the PC Police has stopped me.  There is no doubt Kate has a lovely face but she is definitely getting bigger.  Her hips, knees, heart and lungs must be really struggling.

[kissedbyarose]

2 hours ago, Trillian said:

I don’t need more Déjà. I don’t want more Deja. I want Beth to have been right and pompous Randall to have wrong to have tried to steal a poor woman’s child. I watch this show for the Big Three - all three versions of them - and their parents. The whole time Randall was in Vegas obsessing about Deja, I kept thinking “how are Tess and Annie doing, Randall?  Remember them?  Even if they’re safe with Rebecca and Miguel or with friends, shouldn’t you remember you have your own kids?”

ITA! And now that we got a little bit about Toby, I want to know more about Beth and her family. She mentioned having a big one to Deja right? I would rather meet them than see this foster/tenement storyline.

[Biggie B]

I wonder how Toby's brother will be worked into the show? He was mentioned so specifically several times (although if his name was mentioned, I missed it) that I can't help but wonder if he'll suddenly show up on Toby and Kate's doorstep out of the blue. Unless mentioning him was just a device to show that Toby misses having a brother in his life and really wants to bond with Kevin and Randall to fill that void.

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Why would Kevin not just have housekeeping clean out the bar?  Did he have to prove to himself that he could handle the temptation?  Vegas is not the place for that!

We actually didn't see any grand romantic gestures from Jack in the flashbacks shown.  It was kind of nice that we got to see Rebecca being the one to come through with the thoughtful, romantic anniversary gifts in the earliest flashbacks.

I thought the bound notes Rebecca gave Jack for their first anniversary was incredibly romantic. But then I keep a journal, so I like journal-y things. Their song is "As!" I love that song!

Susan Kelechi Watson is so beautiful. (Loved that she had her head wrapped in her scene with Kate.) I feel like this dynamic between Kate and Beth is relatively new. I've never gotten the sense that they didn't care for each other before. Kevin and Beth is pretty well established, but Beth and Kate is not. I would hate Kate's bachelorette party - I hate strip clubs.

I think the theme of the bachelor/ette parties was everybody's got their something. Nobody's life is perfect.

Why would Kevin assume he was cut out altogether? He said half his scenes were with the actress. That leaves another half, and even the actress said "cut out or reduced." He didn't hear from Ron Howard, so why make that leap?

Quote

ITA! And now that we got a little bit about Toby, I want to know more about Beth and her family. She mentioned having a big one to Deja right? I would rather meet them than see this foster/tenement storyline.

To William, when they were high (which is one of my favorite scenes in the series). Big family, one bathroom.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Empress1

[PRgal]

How did one binge-watch SATC?  It's not like they dropped the entire series at one time.  #justsayin 

[Good Queen Jane]

VCR.

[Lithogirl]

I felt bad for Toby. Kevin and Randall didn’t come back and hang out with him because they wanted to, they came back because they felt guilty. If I were Toby I would rather play slots by myself with free drinks then have someone hang out with me due to pity.

[Katy M]

33 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

The timing confused me - since he apparently dated the stripper from Randall's bachelor party

I don't think his marriage to Sophie lasted long.  Randall may have married after Kevin's divorce.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing that annoyed me was when Kate and Toby said they'd rather have a combined bachelor/ette party but decided not to. It's your wedding and bachelor/bachelorette party so you can do whatever the fuck you want. I know some couples who did combined bachelor/ette parties. I know some couples who did no bachelor/ette party for either the bride or the groom. I know some couples who did super low key gatherings (one guy I know just had his friends play golf with him for a few hours, one girl I know did a non-drunken spa day). You do not have to go to Vegas. You do not have to have separate parties. You do not have to invite a bunch of people (I know some people who only invited 2-4 of their closest friends for a night out). Do whatever you want instead of doing what you think you're SUPPOSED to do.

All that said, I appreciate that they were making an effort to hang out/forge better relationships with their in laws. I thought Randall was being silly when he said they only got pity invitations because they were the in laws. Some people like to include their in laws in stuff like that. Don't be so negative, Randall!

8 minutes ago, PRgal said:

How did one binge-watch SATC?  It's not like they dropped the entire series at one time.  #justsayin 

HBO did not have as many tv shows back then as they do now, so they would rerun the crap out of the few shows that they had. In 1998 (when Jack died), they had Arliss, Tenacious D, Oz, The Chris Rock Show, Tracey Takes On, Taxicab Confessions, The Larry Sanders Show, and a handful of others. This was before The Sopranos, The Wire, Six Feet under, etc. Before binge watching was called binge watching, we called it marathoning. I remember my sister taped the entire second season of Buffy so we could watch it together that summer (on VHS as @Good Queen Jane said!). Sometimes during Christmas breaks we would marathon My So-Called Life (again on VHS).

[sadiegirl1999]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

Are Deja and her mom going to move to Randall and Beth’s apartment building?

Ohhhhhhh I think you're onto something. 

[Squirrely]

I don't find dancing at the bowling alley to be grand! They would have fallen on their faces before making it halfway down and collapsed while trying to dance! Bowling lanes are oiled and very slick. 

I didn't think Kevin and Randall were all that bad for ditching Toby. They had no clue that those guys weren't his real friends, and each brother probably thought he was doing Toby a favor by bailing. Yeah, it was a little selfish, but they made up for it. 

I enjoyed this episode overall and laughed out loud a few times. Toblerone's under the breath declaration of hate for Madison was well timed and done! And his description of being a lone D&D player who was too nerdy for a 6 year-old had me rolling. I feel like they've redeemed his character a lot this season. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by Squirrely
Typo

[sadiegirl1999]

1 hour ago, Biggie B said:

As Deja is homeless, how does she have a working cell phone? I guess she finds places during the day to charge it, but who's paying for it?

We just did service work at a homeless shelter this week and MANY of the men had cell phones. 

It was an eye opening experience for me and my son...and lots of these men in the shelter DO have jobs (day labor, etc)...the money just isn't enough for housing. 

The experience also taught me that not all homeless people have a shopping cart of their possessions and live under a bridge. 

Which brings me to...couldn't Deja and her mom go to a shelter? 

[MsChicklet]

I don't think Randall and Kevin showed up at Toby's just because they were guilty. I think what Kate said reminded them that this trip was about her and Toby and celebrating their upcoming wedding. It took both of them out of themselves and made them see things from outside their own clouded perspectives.

Out of all of them, I understood Kevin the most. He's just a couple of months out of rehab, and he's in a place called Sin City with memories and temptations at every turn. He's an ex-athlete, so I wasn't surprised he turned the room's minibar into some kind of challenge. Then he gets the news about the movie. I'm not surprised he jumped to the worst case scenario. He's already messed up his professional reputation, ruined his relationship with the love of his life, and damaged family relationships. Why not this going wrong, too? 

I can understand why Kate went along with Madison's plans. She's trying to break out of her old ways of not having girlfriends and doing girl things. I like how she's trying to push past some of her old issues like that, like in reaching out to Beth.

My favorite thing about this episode was that it showed more of the siblings' relationships with each other, and that we're starting to see them in the aftermath of Jack's death. I think that time is going to give us more insight into how they became who they are.

Edited February 28, 2018 by MsChicklet

[Empress1]

21 minutes ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

We just did service work at a homeless shelter this week and MANY of the men had cell phones. 

It was an eye opening experience for me and my son...and lots of these men in the shelter DO have jobs (day labor, etc)...the money just isn't enough for housing. 

The experience also taught me that not all homeless people have a shopping cart of their possessions and live under a bridge. 

Which brings me to...couldn't Deja and her mom go to a shelter? 

Shelters could be full. They're in Newark, which has no shortage of homeless people. 

Re: her cell phone, there are low-income cell phone provider programs. You're eligible for one if you receive certain government assistance, like Medicaid (which I would guess Deja and her mom have) or SNAP (which, ditto - and you can be working and receive SNAP. Many people who have SNAP also have jobs). I wouldn't expect her to have an iPhone because the cost of the phone itself could be prohibitive, but her having a cell phone isn't odd to me.

[MsChicklet]

2 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Re: her cell phone, there are low-income cell phone provider programs. You're eligible for one if you receive certain government assistance, like Medicaid (which I would guess Deja and her mom have) or SNAP (which, ditto - and you can be working and receive SNAP. Many people who have SNAP also have jobs). I wouldn't expect her to have an iPhone because the cost of the phone itself could be prohibitive, but her having a cell phone isn't odd to me.

It's why I roll my eyes when some people say, "How can they be poor if they have cell phones?!" Phones are one of the last things to give up. It's not like a landline they lose if they lose their apartment. It's often the main connection to family and other support. You need a phone if you're looking for work.

[Empress1]

Just now, MsChicklet said:

It's why I roll my eyes when some people say, "How can they be poor if they have cell phones?!" Phones are one of the last things to give up. It's not like a landline they lose if they lose their apartment. It's often the main connection to family and other support. You need a phone if you're looking for work.

In fact, it's cheaper to have a cell phone than a land line. There are fees to set up a land line. If you're moving from place to place, that's a fee to turn the phone on every time - or if you fall behind on your bill and it gets cut off, it costs money to have it turned back on once you get current. No installation fees with cell phones. A phone is a necessity - prospective or current employers (because you can be working and still be poor and/or homeless. To get an apartment you need at least first and last, which is hard to save up if you're check to check, and housing costs are steadily rising) need to be able to reach you. That's why the low-income programs exist.

[Biggie B]

2 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

It's why I roll my eyes when some people say, "How can they be poor if they have cell phones?!" Phones are one of the last things to give up. It's not like a landline they lose if they lose their apartment. It's often the main connection to family and other support. You need a phone if you're looking for work.

Yes, without a doubt, it is critical to have a phone for all of the above reasons. I do think Randall is likely making sure Deja's cell service is attended to, so that they can stay in touch at all times. That didn't initially occur to me at the moment I was watching the episode. Thank goodness she has her phone.

[ShadowFacts]

Toby doesn't like Madison because she is too Toby-like, heh.  I was not thrilled with his yapping early in the episode about the dark chocolate Pearson brother and the vanilla Pearson brother, like, grow up.  Also, not too healthy to say that once Vegas was over they could go back to being outside relationship-free.  I did end up softening on Toby Bryant by the end when he explained his own brother situation, but really too much speechifying there on the street with Kevin and Randall. 

[Aloeonatable]

5 hours ago, project90 said:

am I only one who feels Jack death less sad by fact we clearly still going see him every episode

But he has been dead since the beginning, so having seen his death and funeral does not change my feelings. 

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

But he has been dead since the beginning, so having seen his death and funeral does not change my feelings. 

The actor has even said this - he's always been dead (heh), the only thing that's changed is that we know how. His contract hasn't changed, he's not going to be in fewer episodes. Apparently people have been asking him that, if the Jack death reveal means he's leaving the show.

Unpopular opinion, but I'm glad the big "how Jack died" mystery is over because I was never particularly invested in it - it's just one more piece of the story as a whole, but not the most important (in my opinion).

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Kate said that she and Randall hung out together the year after Jack died. I wonder where Kevin was.

 

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Marrying Sophie?

In the college tour episode Kevin said Sophie got early acceptance into NYU, so my theory is that Kevin decided to move to NYC with her since he didn't have his own prospects, and they got married so they'd be eligible for married student housing.

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

The timing confused me - since he apparently dated the stripper from Randall's bachelor party.

Kevin and Sophie got divorced at 24, based on Sophie's reference last season to "my ex-husband who I haven't seen in twelve years." Randall and Beth met at 19, but it's plausible that they waited until their mid-20s to get married. The timeline could work.

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

HBO did not have as many tv shows back then as they do now, so they would rerun the crap out of the few shows that they had. In 1998 (when Jack died), they had Arliss, Tenacious D, Oz, The Chris Rock Show, Tracey Takes On, Taxicab Confessions, The Larry Sanders Show, and a handful of others. This was before The Sopranos, The Wire, Six Feet under, etc. Before binge watching was called binge watching, we called it marathoning.

I think the issue is that there were only a few episodes of SATC available in the year after Jack died. The show had its first season in the summer of 1998, and it only had twelve half-hour episodes. The clip they showed was of the fourth episode. So rather than binge-watch or marathon, Kate and Randall must have been watching the same episodes over and over.

Edited February 28, 2018 by chocolatine

[shoovenbooty]

In my state, the government provides free cell phones and free minutes to the homeless and those living on government assistance. So even if Randall isn't paying for Deja's cell phone, the government could be.

[bichonblitz]

7 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

I am on Beth's side re Deja. I also wouldn't have given her any money.  I mean, the girl just shows up begging for money?  Maybe it's my black heart, but my first thought was that her mom sent her there for the money.  Gah, I wish this storyline would go away.

I think you were right. Why else would they be sleeping in the car? 

[Haleth]

I was thinking about how Kate is marrying a man very much like her dad--all about the grand gestures. 

I'm glad the actor shaved that curlicue on his forehead. It was so distracting. 

[Ohiopirate02]

41 minutes ago, MsChicklet said:

It's why I roll my eyes when some people say, "How can they be poor if they have cell phones?!" Phones are one of the last things to give up. It's not like a landline they lose if they lose their apartment. It's often the main connection to family and other support. You need a phone if you're looking for work.

Also, many people use a family member's old phone.  I could see Randall or Beth upgrading their phone and giving Deja the old one.  And with many carriers having family plans, the cost for Deja's line would be minimal.

[mmecorday]

Quote

I'm glad the actor shaved that curlicue on his forehead. It was so distracting. 

Yes. There can only be one TV's Frank, Toby.

Kind of a meh episode for me. I hated that Beth and Randall had to bring their drama to Kate's bachelorette party. Kevin didn't annoy me this episode so there's that.

[Trillian]

1 hour ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Which brings me to...couldn't Deja and her mom go to a shelter? 

Shelters are often really unpleasant places.  I often see, through work, people who would prefer to live on the streets rather than deal with the noise, theft and sometimes violence that can take place in a shelter.

Plus, they probably want to hide the fact of having lost their housing out of fear that, without stable housing, Social Services would take Deja away again.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

13 hours ago, voiceover said:

Oh Toby.  Madison is you.  If you were a tiny 20-something.  

RIGHT??? When Toby said he hated Madison, I thought Oh, Toby, do you hate yourself? The man is completely lacking in self-awareness if he doesn't see how he comes across to people. No wonder he has no real friends and even his brother won't hang out with him on a momentous occasion. I hope Kate points out the similarities between them if he ever asks why Kate would choose to be friends with Madison.

Randall is exhausting. Seriously, he is either hyper-excited about something or so anxious about something else that he simply cannot enjoy the moment. I wish he would take it down about 20 notches for him family's sake.

And really, just don't go to Vegas if you aren't going to participate. It's beyond rude. Even Toby doesn't deserve to be treated that way. 

If I were Randall, I would probably give Deja the money even if I thought her mother was scamming me. Maybe not if it were an enormous sum but less than a 100 dollars? Sure. A 12 year old doesn't deserve to be caught up in that. I would look into it later with the social worker, though. 

I did think it convenient that Deja and her mother were parked so close to where they used to live so Randall and Beth could happen upon them.

And the printout about the meteor shower on green(?) paper looked very professional. Well done, Kate and Randall. That library really had a lot of resources if they were able to pull that off.

[bonniejmac]

4 hours ago, drafan said:

So now the writers are reaching into Mandy Moore's film past and making her a star-gazer like in "A Walk to Remember"...what's next ....her walking around simpering/singing...oh wait! ...she already did that. Hopefully, she doesn't get leukemia soon. Ugh.

Okay, if this is the case, I'm gonna need them to find a way to have an ice cream cone shoved into Rebecca's chest, a la "Princess Diaries."  

"Lana got coned, Lana got coned!"

[Lady Calypso]

27 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

And really, just don't go to Vegas if you aren't going to participate. It's beyond rude. Even Toby doesn't deserve to be treated that way. 

Well, Randall did technically want to skip out on it, but Beth insisted that they go. I guess because if Randall didn't go, then Beth wouldn't have gone since she's not really that close with Kate or Toby, and I can't say that I blame her. And Kevin did try until he ran into his co-star and thought he was being cut from the movie. 

28 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I did think it convenient that Deja and her mother were parked so close to where they used to live so Randall and Beth could happen upon them.

In my head, the reason Deja and her mom stayed close to their place was because of Linda, if she ever popped by unexpectedly. I assume Linda doesn't know that Deja and her mom are living in their car, and with her mom being afraid of losing Deja again, it makes perfect sense for them to not stray far away from their old home. Not that it would have worked more than once with Linda, but I can see the intent to sticking close by, rather than it being convenient for Randall and Beth to stumble upon them.

[Katy M]

Also, the car may be out of gas, or not working.  Although it is still snow season, so if it's not getting moved, it should have been towed.

[MsChicklet]

I was thinking that also, they probably know people in the building, so they feel safer being near there so if trouble happened at least Deja could get to someone they know.

[tennisgurl]

Can I just say, I find Vegas style batchelorette/bachelor parties to be pretty...lame? Cliche? Gouche? I would think that Madison would have come up with something more trendy for her matching parties, or something more interesting? Maybe its different in other parts of the country (or with people who can drop tons of cash on flying out to Vegas) but, I am right in the middle of the time where tons of my friends are getting married, so I've been to a lot of batchelorette parties, and followed a lot of batchelorette planning sites online, and most of them are all about "unique" events to do with your friends, and talking about them being Instagram worthy. Among the batcheloette parties I've been to in the last few years, they include: Pontoon boating/water skiing on a lake, sip and paint/bounce house, rock climbing, dance classes/alcohol making, escape rooms, DIY party, and almost all of those were in rented Air BnB houses, not fancy hotels. Is that weird? Because I find those to be a lot more fun than strippers and cheesy Vegas stuff. Like, of all the sites I saw, they pretty much all said to avoid Vegas.

Edited February 28, 2018 by tennisgurl

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Which brings me to...couldn't Deja and her mom go to a shelter? 

Many shelters are less safe than sleeping in your car, and often they are full and have no beds available.

Unfortunately, the social services and safety net in this country are woefully inadequate and mostly a myth.

Upthread someone mentioned liheap (fuel assistance) and that is also often not enough to cover an entire winter, plus it can take time to qualify even after you file the paperwork.

It's just not all that easy to get out of poverty, and when people fall on hard times it doesn't mean they're stupid or lazy or that they aren't trying.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

My daughter and her fiancee are having a joint party this weekend. They are playing airsoft (whatever that is, is it like paintball?) and then some will go out for drinks, but, his groomsman brother is underage and they wanted him included so this was a perfect thing and the girls are all tomboys.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Mom2twoNonna2one
Edited because only girls are tomboys. 

[methodwriter85]

2 hours ago, bonniejmac said:

So now the writers are reaching into Mandy Moore's film past and making her a star-gazer like in "A Walk to Remember"...what's next ....her walking around simpering/singing...oh wait! ...she already did that. Hopefully, she doesn't get leukemia soon. Ugh.

Maybe Rebecca and Jack could have an episode where they're backpacking around the European countryside and getting into a series of wacky misadventures. Backpacking in the 1970's was apparently less cost-prohibitive back then, and it would actually be kind of romantic.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Kate's comment at the party - "Randall has made it perfectly clear who is more important to him".  Ummm... a wife comes first, don 't get why she is upset about that.

Yeah, I felt like the whole storyline was something that would have occurred a long time ago if Kate was really upset about all this, since it isn't as if Randall's marriage is some new dynamic she needs to learn to maneuver.  I also agree that Kate doesn't seem to understand how marriage works.  I would think most marriages where the husband and/or wife prioritized their siblings over their spouse would not end well. 

[memememe76]

Kate immediately regretted what she said, and realized how bad it sounded. I think her later conversation with Randall contextualized her comments--she was in grief over the passing of her dad, Randall was there to comfort her (Kevin apparently was not), and then Randall "left" her for Beth. To me, it makes sense. Kate really spiralled at that time, while Beth was seen as "perfect". It is also consistent with the fact that Kate and Randall don't share a whole lot of scenes. Kate does not seem to have that same close relationship with her nieces as Kevin does. 

[Liamsmom617]

7 hours ago, BonnieD said:

Ditto to that. Although actually i do talk about some personal things with the one of my sis-in-laws who lives close but we've never gone out together without our spouses. I have plenty of sisters of my own, know what I mean?

I like that Toby and Kate come right out and admit to being co-dependant and having hardly any friends. That's because the writers wrote you guys that way :)
Love that the relationships between inlaws and the siblings was explored. Interesting stuff.
Agreed that the social worker should have been notified rather than Randall just handing out cash like Santa Claus.
Beth must make piles of money at her job to be able to afford to keep up on their regular lifestyle AND buy Randall's dream project tenement. Also, how could they possibly spare even a day to go to L.A. with that whole tenement renovation hanging over them? Sheesh.

Stupid Kevin not to have the mini-bar cleared out rather than trying to challenge himself to resist. Stupid, stupid. And he sat there brooding instead of calling his sponsor.

Just realized I listed mostly negatives but I really did enjoy the episode.
 

As a former foster care worker, my guess is that Deja and her Mom didn’t call the social worker for fear that Deja might be removed from the home again; one of the conditions of her remaining in the home may be that the Mom is able to maintain (I.e. keep up with/pay without any assistance) her rent, utilities, etc. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by Liamsmom617

[MsChicklet]

After losing her dad, Kate may have felt she was losing both her brothers to women she felt she couldn't compete with. I wonder if Randall fell into the trap many newly-in-love people do and putting Beth first meant putting everyone else far in the rearview mirror.

[PRgal]

Dear Ron Howard,

Despite what you said, some of Kevin's scenes were STILL cut.  Like half his storyline. #justsayin

[Squirrely]

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

 

Kevin and Sophie got divorced at 24, based on Sophie's reference last season to "my ex-husband who I haven't seen in twelve years." Randall and Beth met at 19, but it's plausible that they waited until their mid-20s to get married. The timeline could work.

Plus, didn't Kevin cheat on her? They could have been estranged for awhile before divorcing, living their own lives. 

[Drumpf1737]

17 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Geez, Kevin and Randall couldn't leave their dramas out of Toby and Kate's Vegas bachelor parties.

 

Their dramas being whether a) Kevin will have a career going forward or be just another Hollywood reject on Big Brother. b) whether a young girl is safe. I think both of those issues are more important than the bachelor parties.

Once again Kate proves she's just a spoiled brat. Randall grew up, went to college, got married and started raising a family. Meanwhile, Kate's been stuck in a rut for almost 20 years; jealously watching her brothers progress resenting their mates the whole time.

Holy crap I am a Toby fan. I loved him in this episode. His interaction with Madison was adorable. I appreciated his wanting to get to know his brothers in law better and I 'm glad we saw that interaction.

I loved young Randall being a superstar at the library. Obviously, the meteor shower viewing was his idea. Jack spending time with young Kevin was really sweet too.

[WhosThatGirl]

I was kind of eh about this episode. It had some good moments but nothing that great.

Also.. remember how at the beginning of this season all the people behind the show said we would see more of cracks in the Jack character? I mean.. we sort of did with the drinking but he’s still pretty perfect. Last nights episode was just another factor in that, Rebecca got Jack simple gifts or things she heard him mention like the hammer and he gets her a piano!!! 

Also god Kate is annoying. I’m always surprised that CM is getting nominations for that character. I’m sure CM is a great actress but Kate just grates. I understand why Sterling keeps getting noms, Randall is always getting quite the stories but Kate’s stories just seem to make her look stagnated at age 17 and I don’t get why that’s appealing as a story. I know Kevin has her moments as well but I don’t know. Something about his story  translates better than Kate’s.

[txhorns79]

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Kate immediately regretted what she said, and realized how bad it sounded. I think her later conversation with Randall contextualized her comments--she was in grief over the passing of her dad, Randall was there to comfort her (Kevin apparently was not), and then Randall "left" her for Beth. To me, it makes sense. Kate really spiraled at that time, while Beth was seen as "perfect". It is also consistent with the fact that Kate and Randall don't share a whole lot of scenes. Kate does not seem to have that same close relationship with her nieces as Kevin does. 

But hasn't it been like 20 years since Jack died?  It just felt to me like if Kate was upset over all this, it would have manifested a long time ago, instead of how ever many years into Randall's marriage.  And like someone else said, this is just another example of a storyline where Kate apparently is still stuck where she was as a teenager.    

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Liamsmom617 said:

As a former foster care worker, my guess is that Deja and her Mom didn’t call the social worker for fear that Deja might be removed from the home again; one of the conditions of her remaining in the home may be that the Mom is able to maintain (I.e. keep up with/pay without any assistance) her rent, utilities, etc. 

Not to get too off on this, but what does that mean for someone who loses a job, gets sick, etc.?  Unable to maintain without assistance means you lose your child into the system?  That doesn't seem to be necessarily in the best interest of the child.  Naturally, living in a car isn't either, but is there a middle ground?