S02.E16: Vegas, Baby

[BonnieD]

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As a former foster care worker, my guess is that Deja and her Mom didn’t call the social worker for fear that Deja might be removed from the home again; one of the conditions of her remaining in the home may be that the Mom is able to maintain (I.e. keep up with/pay without any assistance) her rent, utilities, etc. 

I meant why didn't Randall and Beth notify the soc worker. But maybe he felt it would seem a betrayal of Deja's trust to phone in the situation.
 

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Their dramas being whether a) Kevin will have a career going forward or be just another Hollywood reject on Big Brother. b) whether a young girl is safe. I think both of those issues are more important than the bachelor parties.

Then just tell the guy what's happening for God's sake! Which they eventually did but they could've done it before bailing on the party so he knew it had nothing to do with him.
However, no one in TV shows ever actually says things or there wouldn't be drama for us to watch. It's always "It's too complicated" or some such about matters that could be boiled down to a few points in a few sentences.

[Katy M]

43 minutes ago, BonnieD said:

Then just tell the guy what's happening for God's sake! Which they eventually did but they could've done it before bailing on the party so he knew it had nothing to do with him.

Yep.  Toby had already apologized to Kevin about the drinking.  Had Kevin returned to the table, explained that he had just received bad news about his movie and needed to remove himself from the drinking, I'm sure Toby would have completely understood.  And, Randall could have easily gone back and said that he needed to talk to Beth about a phone call he just got from Deja.  Although, I don't really think that was time sensitive, but apparently I'm just too detached:)

[Biggie B]

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Then just tell the guy what's happening for God's sake! Which they eventually did but they could've done it before bailing on the party so he knew it had nothing to do with him.

Lack of communication or miscommunication is one of the absolute bedrocks of all soap operas. It makes for more problems and drama, even though we the viewers are sitting at home screaming at the TV for the characters to use their words!!

[topanga]

50 minutes ago, BonnieD said:

I meant why didn't Randall and Beth notify the soc worker. But maybe he felt it would seem a betrayal of Deja's trust to phone in the situation.
 

Then just tell the guy what's happening for God's sake! Which they eventually did but they could've done it before bailing on the party so he knew it had nothing to do with him.
However, no one in TV shows ever actually says things or there wouldn't be drama for us to watch. It's always "It's too complicated" or some such about matters that could be boiled down to a few points in a few sentences.

True, but Kevin has become the kind of man who doesn’t often let others see his vulnerabilities until he processes them himself. Or they come pouring out in a big speech: his melt-down on the Manny after years (?) of discontent or his big speeches to Sophie. He didn’t talk to any of his family about his drinking and drugs until forced to, for example. 

Adult Kevin is very different from kid Kevin who, although he could be whiny, usually made it clear to his family what was going through his head. 

[DebbieM4]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

Kate seemed to regret saying that as soon as it left her mouth. Sometimes, these feelings cannot be helped, and her and Randall talked it out afterward. It's much how I side eyed Beth telling Kate to butt out of her and Randall's fight, despite them fighting at Kate's bachelorette party right in front of her. Plus, Kate doesn't get it yet because she's only engaged. Once she marries Toby, she'll understand. I give Kate a pass because she regretted her words right away. It's like how I dismissed Randall's poorly choiced words about Beth being detached. 

I didn't like that she said it, but I understand that pretty much all of us say something we regret every now and then.  The issue I have is not that she said it, but that she felt that way and clearly had for a long time.  It's selfish, IMO, to assume that you would be more important than a sibling's spouse, and clearly she did.   

I also don't think you have to be married to understand that a wife should take priority over a sister.  I'm pretty sure that even most kids understand that a brother can love a sister a lot, but his future wife is the one who will and should always come first.  I can't imagine a marriage being very healthy if the husband or wife is relegated to second place, and I knew that long before I was engaged.

I do agree that Randall and Beth were out of line when they disrupted Kate's bachelorette party like that.  It was extremely inconsiderate.  I blame Randall more than Beth, though, since he's the one who crashed in with an attitude.  It just blows me away how often this family treats each other badly.  More and more I am seeing that this is a pretty self-centered bunch.  Too many of them have trouble seeing beyond their own personal at-the-moment angst.

[marny]

I know I'm a Negative Nancy, but I'm really getting tired of the seemingly non-stop Jack and Rebecca schmoopfests in so many episodes.  They were in love. WE GET IT.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

In very TIU fashion, they both hugely over-reacted, I think.  Kevin hadn't even gotten bad news, just a hint that it might be coming.  Though why Ron would send one cast member a hand-written apology and Kevin nothing at all makes no sense to me. 

They did both overreact, but Kevin being an addict, and newly clean at that, needs to avoid his trigger areas.  If I were him, I would have feared that my part was cut to.  He may have figured that due to his recent fall from grace, Ron didn't think him worthy of notice. 

8 minutes ago, DebbieM4 said:

It's selfish, IMO, to assume that you would be more important than a sibling's spouse, and clearly she did.   

I don't know that she wanted to be more important than Beth.  Just that she felt left out completely.  Or more than she wanted to be at any rate.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Anyone else really empathizing with Toby’s little brother? I have a feeling the kid not wanting to play with him was less about Toby being a huge nerd, and more about Toby turning every game into a grand gesture and never letting the kid have any space or play how he wanted to. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Yep.  Toby had already apologized to Kevin about the drinking.  Had Kevin returned to the table, explained that he had just received bad news about his movie and needed to remove himself from the drinking, I'm sure Toby would have completely understood.  And, Randall could have easily gone back and said that he needed to talk to Beth about a phone call he just got from Deja.  Although, I don't really think that was time sensitive, but apparently I'm just too detached:)

I agree with this. Though Kevin seemed completely out of it, as evidenced by him seeming to be lost in his own insecurities and fears until Toby's friend ended up coming to him. Kevin, at least, seemed fully invested in the bachelor party until he thought he was cut out of the movie. Not that it excuses how he just left suddenly without letting Toby know, of course. But yeah, Vegas in general is not a good place for a recently clean addict to go to "test their strength", so to speak. 

Randall, on the other hand, was never invested in the bachelor party because of Deja, and nothing would have made him invested in it. Randall has kind of ruined several major events now in two seasons. Kevin's play the first time around (I understand he had a major anxiety attack and couldn't help it so I give him a pass on this), Kevin's taping of The Manny when he just walked out (this one is less forgiving), and now Toby's bachelor party. At least it's been consistent with him and his selfishness. 

[SueB]

"Rehab Manny who ran over his daughter..."  Yikes. Rehab Manny is accurate but "ran over his daughter?"  That would be like manslaughter or attempted manslaughter.  *sigh*

Kevin: "testing himself" so soon was kinda unwise.  That's a bit cocky so soon after.  Better answer: share a room with Toblerone and get rid of the alcohol in the room.  

Randall & Beth: I get the Deja concern but not a single mention of their other daughters... bad form.

Kate: LOVED the dress.  Fussy about Randall's priorities was "no".  Really enjoyed she and Toby at home pre-party.

Beth: Loved the hair and outfit.  Glad to see her cut loose.  I agree Randall is exhausting but they needed to have a full conversation BEFORE heading to Vegas, not have a running argument in the middle of Kate's bachelorette.

Young Kevin cooking and telling Dad to "step up your game":  I thought that was freakin' hilarious.  I really like Young Kevin.

Madison: Oh honey.  Well, I'm glad you have some friends.  And good on Kate for letting you enjoy yourself.

Toblerone: Sorry Toby, it's sticking.  I really liked him this episode.  Just about every scene he was spot on. And glad he encouraged Kevin to call Ron Howard.

Ron Howard: You go Ron! Just about to come out with the new Star Wars' Han Solo movie and you're doing a bit on This Is Us.  I did like him asking if Kevin "was done".  Very patient of him.  Also glad he liked Kevin's work in the film w/ Sly.  

Jack: At least he actually behaved when Rebecca begged him too.

Rebecca: You have great kids.  I think I would treasure the un-cooked Cornish Hens story for a lifetime.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

"Rehab Manny who ran over his daughter..."  Yikes. Rehab Manny is accurate but "ran over his daughter?"  That would be like manslaughter or attempted manslaughter.  *sigh*

Well, that's how rumors get started.  Niece in car turns into daughter run over.

[Lady Calypso]

14 minutes ago, SueB said:

Kevin: "testing himself" so soon was kinda unwise.  That's a bit cocky so soon after.  Better answer: share a room with Toblerone and get rid of the alcohol in the room.  

It was definitely unwise, and it might give Kevin an incorrect assumption that he'll be able to continue to be around alcohol and drugs. Once his movie comes out and he's invited to all of these Hollywood parties, it's going to just become more difficult to stay clean and sober, I think. He's going to come in for a shock when that day comes. I don't think doing sit-ups is going to be that helpful, so hopefully him and his sponsor can come up with ways to deal with it in the future. I think it's clear it will backfire, probably next season (I assume next season is when his movie will actually come out). And I'm 80% sure the title of that episode will be One Second (because of what Kate Burton's character said to Kevin before he left rehab) so if you see any episode title with the word "second" in the title, I think it's obvious what will be coming. 

[DebbieM4]

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I don't know - I have two graduate degrees and would never qualify them as being particularly hard - as I loved being a student and it was my thing. As it seems to be Beth's. For me, as a person who's done most of those things on the list (in addition to burying both siblings and parents, and navigating the social care system when my father was put into assisted housing), the things I expect in life - even if they're hard - they're not as hard as having to take care of someone while being governed by rules, regulations, from an outside agency and knowing that even if you start to love them, you have no rights to them at all. So being forced to let go is, to me, is pretty hard.

 

I agree.  It makes perfect sense to me that taking in Deja would be the hardest thing Beth had ever done.  Grad school, raising kids, etc.  can all be hard, but in a different way.  It's enormously difficult to open your home to a girl with a troubled past, try to get to know her, earn her trust, watch the dynamics with your own children, love her and guide her and become an important part of her life, knowing full well that your entire family will likely become attached and yet she will not truly be yours.  It's about being a mother to a child who needs a ton of mothering, but  - as you said - having no rights.  It's about opening your home and your heart, and worrying about her even after she's gone.  Taking in a troubled child can be gut-wrenching, and I wouldn't be surprised if many people who have fostered children also feel that it was the hardest thing they ever did, even though they're glad they did it.

8 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

What rang a bit false to me was that Randall didn't chill more about leaving Deja, because she has a phone and she has his number.  It's not like he can't send money or do about anything to help from Vegas, especially with Rebecca's help in NJ.  

 

He said his worry was that she would show up at their house and they wouldn't be there.  So why couldn't he simply let her know?  Just call and say very casually, "Hey Deja, we're headed to Vegas so we won't be around, but you know you can call if you need anything, right?  I'm just a phone call away."  Sure, he still might worry, but at least he wouldn't have visions of her ringing his doorbell and no one answering.  Communication is actually pretty easy when both people have phones!

6 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Maybe we'll meet them all at the wedding, which, do we know if it's going to be in California or New Jersey?  If California, all the Pearsons will be flying again.  They travel a lot.

 

Well, let's see if this will be a normal wedding, with all family members actually attending without running out and/or ruining yet another big event.  They keep raining on each other's parades and don't seem to give a rat's ass that they're doing it (until, sometimes, later).  Deliberate or not, it sucks.

1 hour ago, marny said:

I know I'm a Negative Nancy, but I'm really getting tired of the seemingly non-stop Jack and Rebecca schmoopfests in so many episodes.  They were in love. WE GET IT.

OMG, me too.  I think they're actually the least interesting part of this show.  I've always felt that way, and this "we're so in love" business being constantly shoved down our throats only serves to reinforce that.  It's way too one-note for me.  And yes, WE GET IT.  I could not agree more.  ("Schmoopfests" made my night.  LOL!)

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I was kind of wondering why it would be such a big disaster if he was cut out.  He gets paid regardless, I assume.  I know he gets less exposure but he's pretty exposed already.  I mean, it'd be hugely disappointing but not a catastrophe, not like he got Kevin Spaceyed without cause or something.  Now THAT would be a career ender.  (Not making a call on Spacey's guilt, just an example of a real actor catastrophe.)  

Without the movie, Kevin's resume consists of The Manny (which he walked out on), and a small play in New York. It was already a stretch that he got a role in a Ron Howard movie, and lightning doesn't strike twice. It would be very difficult for him to get another "serious" role if he'd been completely cut from the movie.

Edited March 2, 2018 by chocolatine

[Guest]

I thought he had done more than that.  They act like he's a star, and he definitely spends like one.  I guess one sitcom starring role could be behind it all, though.   But I don't think being cut from one film would affect his future cast-ability.  He wasn't cut for being a pill.  

Edited March 2, 2018 by Guest

[chocolatine]

59 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought he had done more than that.  They act like he's a star, and he definitely spends like one.  I guess one sitcom starring role could be behind it all, though.   But I don't think being cut from one film would affect his future cast-ability.  He wasn't cut for being a pill.  

According to his agent last season, he was doing improv when she discovered him and got him cast on The Manny. IIRC, she said he was making $3,000,000 per season on the show, so that was big money, but he doesn't have that coming in anymore and he's spent a chunk on financing the play. Even some of the most famous and highest-paid sitcom actors, people who make $1,000,000 per episode on shows like Friends, Big Bang Theory, etc., don't get good movie roles, so if Kevin's goal is to break into movies, being completely cut from his first one would have been a huge setback.

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Without the movie, Kevin's resume consists of The Manny (which he walked out on), and a small play in New York. It was already a stretch that he got a role in a Ron Howard movie, and lightning doesn't strike twice. It would be very difficult for him to get another "serious" role if he'd been completely cut from the movie.

Plus, you know the rumors would be that he was cut for being shitty, and it would only add to the impression that he is a bad hire. No one cuts you from a major role for being great.

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

No one cuts you from a major role for being great.

Adrien Brody strongly disagrees!

Edited March 2, 2018 by biakbiak

[qtpye]

On 2/27/2018 at 11:02 PM, ByaNose said:

Okay, which writer on This Is Us has a thing for Deja? Can they please be fired?! Randall and Beth have two daughters at home already and are much more interesting. Please! Get rid of Deja & her mother. Ugh! 

I also appreciated that Jack was deJacked for the anniversary. I didn’t think he had it in him. LOL!!!

Overall, a nice episode. There wasn’t any heart stopping moments that I didn’t need to recover from. I need a rest every once in awhile. LOL!!!!

 

On 2/27/2018 at 11:03 PM, voiceover said:

Oh Toby.  Madison is you.  If you were a tiny 20-something.  

The Randall bachelor party story was very adorable.  

Huh.  A layer of Kate just peeled off, and it was labeled "Beth".   Didn't see that coming but not at all surprised.  There's a relationship I'd like to see develop.

The Kate/Randall scene by the slots -- along with the SATC flashback --might be one of my favorites of the whole series.  God, they have terrific chem, those two!

But mostly, I'm thankful for the low maintenance version of this show.  After the last couple eps, I needed the break.  

 

On 2/28/2018 at 2:43 AM, SadieT said:

How did Jack get the piano in the house without Rebecca seeing it? 

I thought Rebecca's gifts to Jack were actually really sweet and thoughtful. It's a shame she felt she couldn't match Jack's gifts just because she didn't go big. 

I hope we get more Kate and Beth in future. Beth seems like fun, and they have an interesting dynamic. I also like Madison and all her nicknames for Toby. 

I admit I didn't care much for the Deja drama the first time around so I'm not terribly invested in her now. 

I went from not liking Toby to being annoyed on his behalf that his future brothers-in-law were behaving like self-involved asses and screwing up his bachelor party. 

 

On 2/28/2018 at 4:20 AM, mochamajesty said:

Kate's comment at the party - "Randall has made it perfectly clear who is more important to him".  Ummm... a wife comes first, don 't get why she is upset about that.

I am on Beth's side re Deja. I also wouldn't have given her any money.  I mean, the girl just shows up begging for money?  Maybe it's my black heart, but my first thought was that her mom sent her there for the money.  Gah, I wish this storyline would go away.

Sorry, Kate looked awful in that dress.

 

On 2/28/2018 at 5:09 AM, debraran said:

How many episodes could Randall watch of Sex and the City?  : 0   He had to move on. ; ) Yes, I thought, especially at the shower, that was an odd comment. I'm sure she could have visited them many times before and after kids and saying it seemed like always Kate and Kevin, well that's what we saw all the time.  It was like the writers read, "Why isn't Kate ever with Randall" and you get a show about them doing things together. Maybe they'll have more flashbacks to that time.

I loved how they addressed the friends issue also. They never showed them and were honest about it.

Re Deja, I don't feel it either, it's like when they manipulate too much, I turn off. Lets make this dramatic return, pull the heart strings, etc. Let's not mention telling her you'll help anytime and giving her money without telling her social worker you suspect something is wrong, was not a good thing. I don't mind the fostering storyline, I just wish they'd be a little more realistic.  If they couldn't pay the heat bill, did it occur to Randall, food or electricity or other things weren't right and they know about agencies to help.

 

On 2/28/2018 at 6:14 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Randall and Kevin were selfish jerks to leave Toby's bachelor party. Look, shit happens. Life doesn't stop because of whatever is happening to you. But if you agree to go to something like a bachelor party, you can put all of the other stuff on hold for ONE DAY, put on a happy face, and help this person celebrate. Unless someone calls to say that there's been a death in the family, whatever drama is going on with you can wait. It doesn't matter if the guest of honor is a friend or your future in brother in law. Whoever it is deserves the common decency for you to be a gracious guest for a few hours. They shouldn't have needed Kate's guilt trip to apologize.

I get why Kate and Beth have not been close until now. As Kate pointed out, she's only spent about seven minutes one on one with Beth. I would guess that most of the time they have spent together is at family gatherings so all they had to do was say hello, make some polite conversation, and then go their separate ways (Beth could talk to Randall or Rebecca, Kate could talk to her brothers). It's easier to make one on one time if you live in the same city so you can make plans to do something together (get coffee, go shopping, see a movie) but since Kate moved to LA with Kevin then it seems like the only time they would see each other is when Kevin and Kate come home for holidays and other family gatherings.

I'm not saying it's okay that they both seem to have made no effort to get to know each other, but it's a lot more understandable when you live on opposite sides of the country. When you add on top of the geography issue the fact that Kate was very intimidated by Beth, it makes even more sense. I would also like to add that it's okay if you aren't BFFs with your in laws. As long as you're nice to them, I'm fine with not trying to become best friends with them.

But I'm glad that Kate and Beth talked and are making a tiny bit of progress in their relationship. After some of the initial bumps during S1 (Toby getting fed up with Kate and Kevin's relationship), Kevin has seemed to get along with Toby.

Loved the two Pretty Woman references we got in this episode. I had to laugh when Kate said that Jack should put on a tuxedo and Rebecca should go put on the Julia Roberts hooker outfit. Yes, faux patent leather thigh high boots are the perfect look for an anniversary dinner! Toby's Pretty Woman reference later cracked me up. Big mistake! Huge!

I think it was totally fine with Rebecca wanting to have one anniversary without any grand gestures, especially considering the kids' ages at the time. That's not the time to splurge on anniversary gifts like pianos, so on a practical/financial level I understand putting it on hold for one year. I was actually shocked that Jack was originally going to completely honor her wish and do nothing for their anniversary. I thought he would have negotiated something like a $1 spending limit or making something homemade.

 

On 2/28/2018 at 7:40 AM, sadiegirl1999 said:

I love Beth, if only for the sheer fact that I have a Randall. It's EXHAUSTING, so girl DID deserve a night to party with Magic Mike. And damn, she looked hot. That outfit was everything! 

I also loved how when Kate came by later, her "hair" was on the night stand and she was in her jammies, eating candy. 

Madison needs a bigger part on this show b/c she's awesome..."Toby Bryant". 

I also feel like she said something in the beginning that seemed like the writers read this forum! 

Some of the things they do on this show seems to come straight from here! LOL 

 

On 2/28/2018 at 8:37 PM, Bringonthedrama said:

THIS. Also didn't care for Beth's line to Kate that "fostering is the hardest thing I've ever done," and then the tear she wipes away as she shares that she's been thinking of Deja. Really?! Taking care of a girl with issues for...a few months? is harder than carrying two pregnancies to term, giving birth to your daughters, and raising them everyday up to this moment? It's harder than dealing with however many years of Randall's anxieties while raising your young children? No mention of checking in on their own children. UGH.

 

6 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I didn't like that she said it, but I understand that pretty much all of us say something we regret every now and then.  The issue I have is not that she said it, but that she felt that way and clearly had for a long time.  It's selfish, IMO, to assume that you would be more important than a sibling's spouse, and clearly she did.   

I also don't think you have to be married to understand that a wife should take priority over a sister.  I'm pretty sure that even most kids understand that a brother can love a sister a lot, but his future wife is the one who will and should always come first.  I can't imagine a marriage being very healthy if the husband or wife is relegated to second place, and I knew that long before I was engaged.

I do agree that Randall and Beth were out of line when they disrupted Kate's bachelorette party like that.  It was extremely inconsiderate.  I blame Randall more than Beth, though, since he's the one who crashed in with an attitude.  It just blows me away how often this family treats each other badly.  More and more I am seeing that this is a pretty self-centered bunch.  Too many of them have trouble seeing beyond their own personal at-the-moment angst.

I think a lot of things were done well in this episode, though I hate tv bachelor/bachelorette parties.

We have a little more depth to Kate.  I like that the show was honest about Kate and Toby not really having many friends.  I think Toby actually had the a bachelor party as an excuse to hang out with Kevin and Randall, who he thinks are unbelievably cool.

It is odd to think of Toby as not having many friends, since he is so out going.  However, I have heard that LA is a hard place to make friends, so it could be true.

Kate, on the other hand, makes sense.  I have witnessed that she is not a very nice person to strangers, but not because she is naturally a jerk, it has more to do with her insecurity.  I was happy that the writers did not just let that go and that she had the self awareness to see this in herself.

As for Kate being resentful of her brother's spouses, it's totally selfish on her part, but true to her character on how she is presented on the show.

Kate was the only girl in the family and it seems like all the males doted on her.  Her mother also seemed to spend most of her life begging to be her best friend.  The fact that she was a little overweight, just made the males in her family dote on her more (Jack's princess and Kevin giving that guy all his candy to hold hands with her in the haunted house).

I would not say that she was spoiled, but Kate was incredibly sheltered.  I imagine in the real world, when it takes more of an effort to make real friends, she bailed due to her insecurities and she already had best friends in her brothers.  We all have noticed in her relationship with Toby, he does the lion share of the work (as annoying as he can be), while she is pretty passive.

When Beth came in being all the things that Kate was not (popular, personable, well educated, accomplished, and not to mention naturally thin) insecure Kate just could not handle it.

I did not like her attitude, but it is very realistic to her character.

[bros402]

21 hours ago, debraran said:

I'm glad. My daughter will be off ours in August and she has asthma medication that can be pricey but not like yours I'm sure. She is doing an Americorps/Vista program and they told her to apply for Medicaid until she can try the healthcare exchange. (I told her to start early) She also qualifies for SNAP but I can help her with food. I laughed when my very conservative nephew who constantly had my sister bail him out, give him numerous down payments for rent and later a home, talk about the "leaches" out there.  I think if you can help a loved one, great but some people don't have a person to help them or they are as poor as they are. To take from family and then make fun of others who need help, it just makes me shake my head.  If he was on his own, really on his own, I know my nephew would not feel the same way while he looked for an apartment or needed gas money or down payment for a car.

I'm glad it worked out for you.

My seizure meds cost insurance around $2000-$2500 a month. We're also getting medicaid to pick up some of the cost, so that's super fun :D

[Quark]

Kevin's cleaner just stole Season Two for me.

"Rehab Manny."

I died.

[Pallas]

On 2/27/2018 at 10:23 PM, chocolatine said:

I really wish adult Randall was more like kid Randall - nerdy and sweet instead of perfectionist know-it-all.

I think that's where the show is going: demonstrating that while Randall seems to have survived the trauma of the fire and Jack's death, the effects overwhelm him when he is stressed by life. Since William's death, Randall has become more impulsive (rather than spontaneous -- a very different thing) and also more dogmatic, in reaction to his grief at the loss, and his fear of losing more.

One could say, Then if he's afraid of losing family members, why not spend more time just enjoying Tess and Annie, rather than marshaling their activities or taking over their projects? Because in the grip of that sort of fear, people aren't adult or nurturing, despite their best intentions or usual behavior. They are rigid yet rash, demonstrative yet self-absorbed, focused yet blind. Think of a mouse in a maze, urgently seeking the way out. 

[TwoGrayTabbies]

17 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Because in the grip of that sort of fear, people aren't adult or nurturing, despite their best intentions or usual behavior. They are rigid yet rash, demonstrative yet self-absorbed, focused yet blind. Think of a mouse in a maze, urgently seeking the way out. 

And this causes even more frustration when the fearful person takes on charitable projects beyond what they can handle.  They can pull the do-gooder trump card on anyone who objects to their excesses.  It’s extremely difficult to confront self-righteousness.

[cardigirl]

Question that I couldn't figure out, so maybe someone here will help me. Why were they going to Vegas for the bachelor/bachelorette parties NOW?   When is the wedding?  Toby said something early in the show about them going to Vegas and then when they got back they wouldn't have to interact for a year.  I've been puzzling that out for a bit now. 

 

Do people have their bachelor/bachelorette parties a year before their weddings?  

 

I did enjoy the episode and like how the brothers like Toby.

[Portia]

Never mind. Sorry!

Edited March 2, 2018 by Portia

[ShadowFacts]

41 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Question that I couldn't figure out, so maybe someone here will help me. Why were they going to Vegas for the bachelor/bachelorette parties NOW?   When is the wedding?  Toby said something early in the show about them going to Vegas and then when they got back they wouldn't have to interact for a year.  I've been puzzling that out for a bit now. 

 

Do people have their bachelor/bachelorette parties a year before their weddings?  

 

I did enjoy the episode and like how the brothers like Toby.

I think he was just throwing out a year to mean a long time, hyperbole, not that the wedding was that far off.  Emphasizing how much he supposedly did not want to do this.  But if he means it, it's not a very healthy view to take, not having outside relationships and just being cooing lovebirds is not a recipe for success, in my view.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

Question that I couldn't figure out, so maybe someone here will help me. Why were they going to Vegas for the bachelor/bachelorette parties NOW?   When is the wedding?  Toby said something early in the show about them going to Vegas and then when they got back they wouldn't have to interact for a year.  I've been puzzling that out for a bit now. 

I think he just meant that they're the type of people who only socialize once a year.  Not literally. 

[MaggieG]

I laughed when Toby and his adorably nerdy crew could not get into the club because they were all wearing tennis shoes. My coworker was in Vegas last week for his birthday and the exact same thing happened to him!

[MsChicklet]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I did enjoy the episode and like how the brothers like Toby.

I am looking forward to brother time with the three of them in the finale and next season. I wonder what Toby's family will make of the Pearsons, and vice-versa.

[topanga]

11 hours ago, qtpye said:

I would not say that she was spoiled, but Kate was incredibly sheltered.  I imagine in the real world, when it takes more of an effort to make real friends, she bailed due to her insecurities and she already had best friends in her brothers.  We all have noticed in her relationship with Toby, he does the lion share of the work (as annoying as he can be), while she is pretty passive.

When Beth came in being all the things that Kate was not (popular, personable, well educated, accomplished, and not to mention naturally thin) insecure Kate just could not handle it.

I did not like her attitude, but it is very realistic to her character

Great post.  That does explain why Kate felt intimidated by Beth, but when she told Beth that, I must admit that the words rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe it’s because many posters have called Beth abrasive, rude, bossy, angry, and the like, which I never see at all. I find Beth to be gentle and kind, especially to her daughters, Deja, William, Rebecca and Miguel, and usually Randall. She and Randall communicate with that ‘married people short hand’ that allows her to blurt out things she might not say to others, such as asking Randall how long his drug-addicted dad would be living with them.  I’m not sure why she dislikes Kevin so much, but maybe there’s history there. And she did let him live in their inexplicably cramped house for several months. 

[candall]

I was pissed off during the entire anniversary segment.  Rebecca's one simple request was to snuggle in bed with her husband while they watched "The Commish."  I'm sure that would have been a rare special treat for her, and Jack COULD have made that happen, but no.

Also, I think the triplets are too old to overlook the irony of running mom ragged, up and down the stairs to fetch the decorations, leaving the kitchen a disaster area for "someone" to clean up, etc.   That seems more like the empirical thinking of younger children.

[Pallas]

On 2/28/2018 at 11:41 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

I mean Randall makes sense, he was always close with Rebecca, but Kate? I suppose this means she’s didn’t end up going away to school.

Berklee had asked for another audition piece, preferably a video. We've seen the only video that came out of that request. Berklee may as well have asked Jack's grieving daughter to submit her favorite Crock Pot recipe. 

[blondiec0332]

14 hours ago, qtpye said:

Kate was the only girl in the family and it seems like all the males doted on her.  Her mother also seemed to spend most of her life begging to be her best friend.  The fact that she was a little overweight, just made the males in her family dote on her more (Jack's princess and Kevin giving that guy all his candy to hold hands with her in the haunted house).

I would not say that she was spoiled, but Kate was incredibly sheltered.  I imagine in the real world, when it takes more of an effort to make real friends, she bailed due to her insecurities and she already had best friends in her brothers.  We all have noticed in her relationship with Toby, he does the lion share of the work (as annoying as he can be), while she is pretty passive.

She also seems to gravitate towards men more than women.  I don't know if that is because she feels insecure around women but my guess would be yes.

[Clanstarling]

51 minutes ago, candall said:

Also, I think the triplets are too old to overlook the irony of running mom ragged, up and down the stairs to fetch the decorations, leaving the kitchen a disaster area for "someone" to clean up, etc.   That seems more like the empirical thinking of younger children.

Let me introduce you to my (grown) family...

29 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

She also seems to gravitate towards men more than women.  I don't know if that is because she feels insecure around women but my guess would be yes.

Her early socializing was with two brothers, so I imagine it makes her more comfortable with men in general. She understands - more or less - how they operate. I grew up in a male dominated society, and am also more comfortable with men. Partly because of that, and partly because as I grew up, I wasn't a girly girl and I wasn't interested in the same things - I was a nerd from the get-go, back when it was a bad thing.  It would probably be very different now, the culture has changed a lot, even if there's lots more work to do.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Pallas]

22 hours ago, Katy M said:

They did both overreact, but Kevin being an addict, and newly clean at that, needs to avoid his trigger areas.  If I were him, I would have feared that my part was cut to.  He may have figured that due to his recent fall from grace, Ron didn't think him worthy of notice. 

Absolutely. Kevin Pearson -- aka, Rehab Manny who ran over his daughter with his car -- worried that he'd been Kevin Spacey-ed out of the film. 

ETA: He may even have feared that he was to blame for his scene partner's being cut: collateral damage to his own excision. And meanwhile, during production, Kevin had originally rushed his return to the set from surgery because he realized some of his part was getting trimmed. Viewing the dailies, Ron Howard had probably already made his decision to feature the father-son relationship.

[qtpye]

21 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

She also seems to gravitate towards men more than women.  I don't know if that is because she feels insecure around women but my guess would be yes.

Yeah, she has often been really nasty to her mother for no other reason than her own insecurities.  I actually like that the writers acknowledged this and that Kate realizes that she is in the wrong, not the other women.
 

Quote

 

I was pissed off during the entire anniversary segment.  Rebecca's one simple request was to snuggle in bed with her husband while they watched "The Commish."  I'm sure that would have been a rare special treat for her, and Jack COULD have made that happen, but no.

Also, I think the triplets are too old to overlook the irony of running mom ragged, up and down the stairs to fetch the decorations, leaving the kitchen a disaster area for "someone" to clean up, etc.   That seems more like the empirical thinking of younger children.

 

Yes, It annoyed me that Jack could not be strong enough to stand up for his wife and just say, "Look kids, it's really sweet that you want to do this for us, but it's about what your mom wants not what YOU want.  Also, you guys planning something is just code for running your mother ragged, so no dice."  However, Jack always had to be the good guy and can not say no to the kids, particularly when Kate is involved.  What is really irritating is that all Jack's decisions turn out to be right.  So, of course it ended with a beautiful meteor shower, but guess what sometimes you just want to snuggle in the bed with your favorite show, instead of freezing your ass off watching for a tiny occasional flash of light in the sky.

However, throughout the series, it has never been about what Rebecca wants, because Jack always knows better.  It is almost a Victorian way of looking at wives, that they are children that must be guided by their smarter wiser husbands.

[Guest]

I thought it was a little odd that the kids even knew their parents had an impending anniversary.  At least they gave some lip service to why Kevin cared, because Sophie's parents were splitting.  

[debraran]

It seems Deja and mom are moving in since next week it says Randall gets visitors. I'm sure there will be the rich/poor references made about home etc. and I hope it's not for long. There is something about it that just doesn't ring true and I'd like to learn more about the Big 3.

 

"

This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life 3/6

Randall and Beth welcome visitors to their home.

Edited March 2, 2018 by debraran

[Katy M]

Wow, I think people are being really harsh against 10 year olds who just want to do something nice for their parents. 

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought it was a little odd that the kids even knew their parents had an impending anniversary.

Why?  Do you think they're stupid or just generally uncaring, or what?  Why wouldn't they know?

[ShadowFacts]

54 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Wow, I think people are being really harsh against 10 year olds who just want to do something nice for their parents. 

Why?  Do you think they're stupid or just generally uncaring, or what?  Why wouldn't they know?

My brothers and I were clueless about my parents' anniversary until we were teens, and even then I was probably the only one who knew.  But then again, my parents did not make a big deal of it.  I don't think we were stupid or uncaring.  We knew their birthdays and Mother's Day and Father's Day and that seemed to make everyone happy. 

[Pallas]

And the anniversary dinner was revealed to be 10-year-old Kevin's way of handling his anxiety about the phantasm of his parents' divorcing. Jack and Rebecca's very sincere assurances that they would never, ever divorce adds some perspective to 17-year-old Kevin's cynicism in the diner scene when they announced that they were separating (and the night after, when Rebecca took the kids to the movies). Kevin felt "had."  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Wow, I think people are being really harsh against 10 year olds who just want to do something nice for their parents. 

Why?  Do you think they're stupid or just generally uncaring, or what?  Why wouldn't they know?

Why would they know?  I've never known anyone's wedding anniversary, ever.  It seems like it's something only the people involved keep track of, but everyone's different.  

I wouldn't take offense that others have differing reactions to the show than you do.  You react like you wrote the show sometimes.  

[Katy M]

Just now, Winston9-DT3 said:

Why would they know?  I've never known anyone's wedding anniversary, ever.  It seems like it's something only the people involved keep track of, but everyone's different.  

I wouldn't take offense that others have differing reactions to the show than you do.  You react like you wrote the show sometimes.  

I wasn't offended.  I was just trying to figure out why someone would be surprised that kids would know their parents' anniversary.  Like if there was a specific reason for that statement.   The parents celebrate it every year.  Big.  So, I don't know why the kids wouldn't know when it was.  My parents didn't do much for their anniversary, but we still knew the date and made them cards and sometimes gifts.

[debraran]

I would have found it odd if my 10 year old twins asked me to dress like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman (probably wouldn't have seen that movie) and told me and husband to go on the roof and watch the stars.  ;  )  They were a young ten or maybe right on spot for 10 but not older like many kids. They knew aniv if I mentioned it but birthday's they did remember.  Making a fuss, no, but maybe some 10 year old kids would do that. I did cherish a cake they made for me for birthday back then and cards always

Kevin was worried about Sophie's parents and his own following in divorce but how quickly he gave up when they told him "no way" was kind of funny. See you!

Edited March 2, 2018 by debraran

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, debraran said:

I would have found it odd if my 10 year old twins asked me to dress like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman

Yeah, I totally would have been having a talk with Kate the next day.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I wasn't offended.  I was just trying to figure out why someone would be surprised that kids would know their parents' anniversary.  Like if there was a specific reason for that statement.   The parents celebrate it every year.  Big.  So, I don't know why the kids wouldn't know when it was.  My parents didn't do much for their anniversary, but we still knew the date and made them cards and sometimes gifts.

The reason was because I don't know kids (or adults or friends) who make plans in advance for their parents' anniversary (or anyone's anniversary besides their own) or who track it at all.  That's sweet that in your family you did.  I think that's rare.  In my experience, kids only know when a holiday that doesn't involve them directly is coming up when teachers or parents forewarn them.  As a mom, I'd remind the kids when Father's Day or dad's bday was coming up so they could think about what to gift, but I wouldn't expect them to prepare for or care about an anniversary so it would never occur to me to mention it.  

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

My brothers and I were clueless about my parents' anniversary until we were teens, and even then I was probably the only one who knew.  But then again, my parents did not make a big deal of it.  I don't think we were stupid or uncaring.  We knew their birthdays and Mother's Day and Father's Day and that seemed to make everyone happy. 

I knew my parents' anniversary, and they weren't even big celebrators. I remember getting them flowers when I was little (and once getting in trouble because I picked the flowers from someone else's yard).

But these kids have Jack of the Grand Gestures - seems to me they'd know every freaking date that gets celebrated in that household.

[Artsda]

I loved that they actually filmed in Vegas.

[Neurochick]

On February 28, 2018 at 7:04 AM, Trillian said:

I don’t need more Déjà. I don’t want more Deja. I want Beth to have been right and pompous Randall to have wrong to have tried to steal a poor woman’s child.

Steal a poor woman's child?  How about trying to help a poor woman's child so she doesn't grow up and be just like her mother?

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I knew my parents' anniversary, and they weren't even big celebrators. I remember getting them flowers when I was little (and once getting in trouble because I picked the flowers from someone else's yard).

Same, my parents got divorced when I was 10 and I got them a little something for their anniversary basically every year when they were married. Even now, I can't ever forget their anniversary and I think to myself "this would have been their 35th anniversary." I also know the day my mom re-married (July 4th), but can't remember my Dad's anniversary because the step monster shall not be celebrated. 

I was obsessed with numbers as a kid, so I knew more dates than the average kid--but my sisters knew the anniversary too. We treated it like a combo Mothers/Fathers Day where we'd make them breakfast in bed and be on our best behavior.