The Bachelor Winter Games - General Discussion

[yorklee2]

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Has it always been this bad? I don't think on BIP (or Batch) it was, well, this fugly

I didn't see her on Bachelor but it was hit and miss on BIP I think. But it has really stood out for the worse on Winter Games. Her whole persona is like some young teen wanting to play grown up. Brings to mind that movie, "13 going on 30". I agree with @Wandering Snark she just needs a life coach period.

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Oh and we've not seen the last of Yuki or Ben I have a feeling..

I hope you do mean separately and not together. As in a couple. If so you were joking, right?

Edited February 21, 2018 by yorklee2

[Wandering Snark]

Hah... I hadn't meant together though that would be a trip. It was just that both exits felt "unresolved" to me and this show is not exactly subtle about it's leaving things open to future involvements.

[phlebas]

Was it me, or did Rachel not exactly cover herself in glory this episode?  She seemed needlessly harsh on Dean, who we thought she had a good relationship with (I think being goofballs together in an absurd situation like a televised kissing contents is at least as good an indicator and a steamy kiss). Both guys from her season were at the bottom, though I kinda get it with Josiah. 

Arie was at least kind to Bibiana. He's saving his torturing for people like Tia.

[mostlylurking]

I am so over Ashley fetishizing her virginity.  Lady you are almost 30 years old, it's just getting weird.  I know some say she is an "everything but that" girl which I can believe, but on the other hand I can also believe that she really doesn't have much experience because she seems so emotionally stunted.  I think she stopped emotionally evolving around high school.  It's just disturbing.

[DEL901]

All that "you're here for love" crap from Harrison is making me sick.  There are a total of 4 episodes.  That took, what, 10 day - 2 weeks to film.  Max.  At "least" the Bachelor(ette) takes 45 days!

And I highly recommend, once Thursday's show airs, everyone head over to the spoilers thread for the interesting info about some of the cast.

Also, apparently Thursday's episode also includes a "The Cast Tells All" hour which should be fun.

[ByTor]

42 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

I am so over Ashley fetishizing her virginity.  Lady you are almost 30 years old, it's just getting weird.  I know some say she is an "everything but that" girl which I can believe, but on the other hand I can also believe that she really doesn't have much experience because she seems so emotionally stunted.  I think she stopped emotionally evolving around high school.  It's just disturbing.

I don't get it either.  I don't understand why virginity has to be advertised, just like I don't expect someone to advertise that they sleep with 5 different people per week.  Except for your partner(s), it's none of anybody's business.

[jumper sage]

40 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

And I highly recommend, once Thursday's show airs, everyone head over to the spoilers thread for the interesting info about some of the cast.

Once Thursday's show airs?  Oh I am running over there now.

Forgot to mention that it was hilarious that Ashley didn't even pick up on the "Ghost" reference.  She is such an idiot.

An Australian commented that in Australia they ride kangaroos up mountains.  I headed straight for Google and yes indeed they do ride kangaroos.  They say more injuries/deaths occur on horses.  Who knew?

[Wings]

54 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

All that "you're here for love" crap from Harrison is making me sick.  There are a total of 4 episodes.  That took, what, 10 day - 2 weeks to film.  Max.  At "least" the Bachelor(ette) takes 45 days!

And I highly recommend, once Thursday's show airs, everyone head over to the spoilers thread for the interesting info about some of the cast.

Also, apparently Thursday's episode also includes a "The Cast Tells All" hour which should be fun.

There is no spoiler thread. 

10 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

Once Thursday's show airs?  Oh I am running over there now.

Forgot to mention that it was hilarious that Ashley didn't even pick up on the "Ghost" reference.  She is such an idiot.

An Australian commented that in Australia they ride kangaroos up mountains.  I headed straight for Google and yes indeed they do ride kangaroos.  They say more injuries/deaths occur on horses.  Who knew?

He actually said in Australia we ride kangaroos not mountains.  We don't ride mountains here either, we climb them. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Wings

[DEL901]

According to Reality Steve's latest batch of info, both Luke and Ben had girlfriends before the show and are now back with them.

And Benoit is the one who reached out to Clare after filming to ask how she was doing.

Also, Courtney and Lily rented an RV and drove across the country to get to the reunion show.

Edited February 21, 2018 by DEL901

[LBS]

51 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Except for your partner(s), it's none of anybody's business.

I need more coffee because I read that as "parents" instead of "partners"!  LOL

 

My favorite thing continues to be the title cards before each event.  I literally snorted laugh at Ben Higgins card "Peter Brady Look A Like" (or some version of that).  Yuki made my ears bleed.  I was sad to see Michael G go home because I love his twitter.  It seems like they edited it everything to focus only on the couples and that's a shame because I personally like watching the friendships grow over people sucking faces.

Edited February 21, 2018 by LBS
add more about episode

[Etta Place]

My dog was made seriously uncomfortable by the sound Yuki made when she was crying.

[Wings]

42 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

According to Reality Steve's latest batch of info, both Luke and Ben had girlfriends before the show and are now back with them.

And Benoit is the one who reached out to Clare after filming to ask how she was doing.

Also, Courtney and Lily rented an RV and drove across the country to get to the reunion show.

 

Ben has a girlfriend?!  Well I guess she knows he is still in love with Lauren.  Jesus.  Run like the wind,  you are a rebound. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Wings

[FamilyVan]

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I am so over Ashley fetishizing her virginity.  Lady you are almost 30 years old, it's just getting weird.  I know some say she is an "everything but that" girl which I can believe, but on the other hand I can also believe that she really doesn't have much experience because she seems so emotionally stunted.  I think she stopped emotionally evolving around high school.  It's just disturbing.

It's totally bizzare, and she seems very emotionally stunted.  She only has two modes.  Crushing on a guy scenario 1: He is not interested and then she cries and is devastated, heartbroken, cries, cries.  Crushing on a guy scenario 2: He is interested, then she is in fantasy wedding planning mode, happiness, manic glee, he's going to be my husband.  There is no middle ground where she is like cool we like each other let's date and see what happens.  Honestly I cannot imagine her as a wife.  She seems like she would be a complete shrew. She also has this anti-woman undercurrent where when she thinks there may be another woman that she sees as her competition she gets nasty and vindictive, name-calling, etc. I remember her doing this on BIP and she borderline got like this on Winter Games.  She was ready to claw Bibiana's eyes out and turn on the hate, but then Bibi got interested in someone else so you could see Ashley be like OK, let me take a deep breath, I can like you now.

[NoWhammies]

Boy. That Stassi is such a natural beauty.

[Real4real]

Why were they making the rejects leave in the middle of a blizzard?  And with no coats?  I'm sure they were probably just going down the road to the local Motel 6, but still!  Dang, that wind looked COLD!

[Stan39]

For once I didn't hate Ashley (or, at least she wasn't the most annoying).  She still talked about her virginity, but for once I think she was honest and open about how it's hindered her relationships with men. 

 

Of course Clare had to twist things around in the end to make herself the victim. Can't stand her. After being cold and dismissive of Benoit, she leaves by saying maybe she should have picked him but she just doesn't think she's good enough.  No Clare, you pick guys A) because you think they're physically attractive and B) because they're assholes and you want to be the girl who "changes them" into the sweet guy that only cares about you. Most women grow out of this by 30. And when guys do this we call them out for being superficial. 

 

Ally and Josiah have the weakest connection, but I don't agree that Ally being sick was because she didn't like him. Bill Russell threw up before EVERY game because that's how his body reacted to the pressure. I think she just got super nervous, but I thought they both handled it well. 

 

Dean and Lesley were just fake. Dean clearly sees this show as his redemption arc. Rather than getting lost in his feelings for Lesley, his confidence/cockiness is letting him show off now. He hasn't grown up at all, he just knows if he dumps Lesley he'll look bad on camera. But there's no depth to him, other than his feelings for himself. 

[Jax7917]

2 hours ago, phlebas said:

Was it me, or did Rachel not exactly cover herself in glory this episode?  She seemed needlessly harsh on Dean, who we thought she had a good relationship with (I think being goofballs together in an absurd situation like a televised kissing contents is at least as good an indicator and a steamy kiss). Both guys from her season were at the bottom, though I kinda get it with Josiah. 

Arie was at least kind to Bibiana. He's saving his torturing for people like Tia.

Rachel has always come off very nasty and bitter to me .. I didn't like her on her season and her reunion episode with Peter , she acted very bitter ... and again with dean last night she got really nasty too . I wouldn't mind if she never appeared on these shows again . Jojo was at least having fun with it 

 

p.s- all I could think about at the judges table was how I bet arie wanted to push jojo up against a wall and make out right about now 

[JudyObscure]

We desperately need a Bachelors in Therapy season.  Dean, Yuki, Christian and Ashley are all suffering from arrested development. Christian may actually be gay, now that I think about it. The rest of them have attachment and commitment issues.  They all just went from funny to sad during that last episode.

Dean's behavior with women sometimes makes me want to run to the bathroom and push Ally out of the way. 

Oh and Ally reminded me of May Britt, Sammy Davis Jr.'s wife -- I really wanted it to work out with Josiah, who was so sweet to her.

[ByTor]

41 minutes ago, Etta Place said:

My dog was made seriously uncomfortable by the sound Yuki made when she was crying.

I didn't see this episode yet, but if it's anything like the sound she made when she was wailing in episode 1 when some of the women went home, I see that I'm in for a real treat!

[Stan39]

2 hours ago, phlebas said:

Was it me, or did Rachel not exactly cover herself in glory this episode?  She seemed needlessly harsh on Dean, who we thought she had a good relationship with (I think being goofballs together in an absurd situation like a televised kissing contents is at least as good an indicator and a steamy kiss). Both guys from her season were at the bottom, though I kinda get it with Josiah. 

Arie was at least kind to Bibiana. He's saving his torturing for people like Tia.

It's not Rachel's fault her exes showed the least chemistry. I think Dean and Lesley's kiss was TOO performed. They weren't trying to be goofy together, they were trying to show off for the cameras. They were both pretty arrogant this episode and I like that Rachel gave them a little push back. Dean is super cocky and Lesley thinks she's "winning" this thing. They could both handle being brought down a peg. 

[NoWhammies]

I kept thinking as I've watched this train wreck that Yuki could be the biggest bitch on the planet, but because of her language barrier, nobody would know. It pleases my cold, wrong reasons heart to imagine that. 

[JenE4]

1 hour ago, Real4real said:

Why were they making the rejects leave in the middle of a blizzard?  And with no coats?  I'm sure they were probably just going down the road to the local Motel 6, but still!  Dang, that wind looked COLD!

I think it’s hilarious that they have these show-provided parkas for the events (women in purple, men in blue), but as soon as they leave, we’ll be taking that coat back and kicking them out the door! Poor Yuki only had half a sweater with that off-the shoulder, crop-top number! What’s the show going to do with all of these parkas? At least give these kids a parting gift in a freaking blizzard, no less!

[DEL901]

They didn't give them their luggage either, LOL!  

[yorklee2]

10 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Hah... I hadn't meant together though that would be a trip. It was just that both exits felt "unresolved" to me and this show is not exactly subtle about it's leaving things open to future involvements.

Oh I agree that's why I said earlier that I believe they were giving Ben a Bachelor edit. Not sure about Yuki. She was sweet and cute but there's only so much of that high pitched whine anyone could stand.

[Wandering Snark]

3 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

p.s- all I could think about at the judges table was how I bet arie wanted to push jojo up against a wall and make out right about now 

I was wondering how confusing it must have been for him to see everyone kissing and him not getting any action after speaking one sentence.

Dean's "performance" kiss spoke volumes about how 'serious' he is and how everything that is supposed to be serious is a joke/funny to him. It would make a close fight between him and Ashley on which is more stunted emotionally.

[saber5055]

I hope that Motel 6 wasn't too far down the road, because that blizzard was a "do not drive, stay home" blizzard where I live, and I live on the upper Midwestern Nordic tundra. These kids were wearing their stocking cap beanies inside the house, then they have to leave and go outside wearing off-the-shoulder evening clothes and heels. (The women anyway. Heh.) What the what ...

Well, unless there were PAs with gigantic fans off to the side to blow the snow around for the most DRAH-matic exits EVAH. So there's that to consider.

Now that I think about it, yeah, that "blizzard" was fake.

Edited February 21, 2018 by saber5055

[CindyBee]

3 hours ago, Wings said:

Ben has a girlfriend?!  Well I guess she knows he is still in love with Lauren.  Jesus.  Run like the wind,  you are a rebound. 

Ben's Girlfriend (I think her name is Lindsey) also has "dated" Robby and Jef Holm; she was the one Robby was busted kissing at a concert in Colorado while he was still with Amanda after they left Paradise.  Not sure when she moved on to Ben but she now knows where he stands: still "in love" with Lauren and auditioning for another stint as the Bachelor.

[the-grey-lady]

Dean has the emotional range and maturity of a houseplant. Everything he says is indecisive and uncertain; he constantly looks like he's waiting for someone to come along and tell him what to do at any given time.

I love the dramatic exits in which the rejectee wails about not being able to find love, as if a reality show is the only place on Earth to find someone to date. And Ben lamenting how sad it is that Tiffany wasn't able to find "love" in the, what, one week they've been in a house in Vermont. 

[Jax7917]

Dean did make one very good decision . During Rachel's season , everyone loved him and was hoping he'd be the next bachelor . But when he was asked if he'd be the next bachelor , he said no and that he wasn't ready for it .. even he knew he would not be ready to get engaged so instead he went on the more casual / fun hook up shows . He never told any of these girls that he was ready to settle down . They see how he is and he's told them how he is . If the girls choose to chase after him , that to me shows more about their immaturity than his 

 

that being said , he's about as surface level as a person gets 

[Token]

Poor Benoit.  Clare is one messed up chick.  I just find her so vapid, ignorant and self-involved.  I feel really sorry for Benoit, because he seems like a sweetheart who is just going to get chewed up and spit out by her.

[Fable]

A kissing elimination contest…really?  This has to be about the stupidest thing I’ve seen from this franchise.  Granted, I don’t usually watch much of Paradise, so I guess there may have been worse, but I found this to be tacky and gross.  If three people don’t deem your kisses/chemistry steamy enough, pack your bags. What if you really feel it, but neither of you are great kissers?   I thought this show was different and had some promise when it started, but obviously I, once again, overestimated these people. 

[seacliffsal]

The desire for fame was strong in this episode.  As if a kissing competition is a true indicator of 'who is right for each other' and the fact that all of those couples were willing to have the intimacy of deep kissing someone else televised.  Have some dignity people.

I didn't watch Ben's first season and if he's the Bachelor again I won't watch his second season.  And, Yuki is totally playing for attention.  I was shocked, shocked I tell you, that after all of her horrific wailing her eyes were dry (as is the norm for the Bachelor universe).

[escatefromny]

When Claire and Christian were (finally) in the jacuzzi together I was imagining the poor sound engineer holding a boom mike above them to capture their conversation over the noise of the churning water.  (That or they had waterproof mike packs).

Christian was on two seasons of the Bachelorette yet still seemed to really bristle at the artificiality and the set ups.  He was uncomfortable and camera/self conscious the whole time and basically just refused to be a dancing monkey.   

Makes me so curious about the tone of the various international versions.  We learned the Asian versions had virtually no kissing, the Australians and New Zealanders didn’t seem to be inhibited in on camera make out sessions (both of which kind of track for me) but I’d love some more insight on the European verisions and whether or not there is a noticeable difference country to country.  

ETA:  in an attempt to answer my own questions ;) came across this entry comparing the US and Australian versions  https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-cultural-differences-between-different-countries-versions-of-The-Bachelor-or-The-Bachelorette

Edited February 22, 2018 by escatefromny

[seacliffsal]

So, is Clare pulling a female Mesnick?

[chocolatine]

6 minutes ago, escatefromny said:

 Makes me so curious about the tone of the various international versions.  We learned the Asian versions had virtually no kissing, the Australians and New Zealanders didn’t seem to be inhibited in on camera make out sessions (both of which kind of track for me) but I’d love some more insight on the European verisions and whether or not there is a noticeable difference country to country.  

I watched some of the German Bachelorette a long time ago when it first premiered, must have been mid-2000s. There wasn't as much making out, not because it was a cultural taboo but because the lead had high standards (she was cast for her desirability and wasn't a recycled former contestant). There were fantasy suites for the final three, same as the US version, and when the audience favorite was booted after the fantasy suites, the entertainment shows were viciously gossiping about his lack of sexual prowess. That's where I stopped watching, I really liked the guy and felt bad that he was treated that way in the media.

[kazza]

Why did Bibiana feel so awkward to see Arie? She went on a couple of group dates with him and maybe kissed him - and we all know that's really not a big deal for him. I can see the Dean/Rachel and Luke/Jojo interactions being a bit strange because they both made it to hometowns, but I can't imagine she had that strong of an attachment. Also, I don't remember if Bibiana did this, but it's silly when a contestant refers to the lead as an "ex". An ex what? Ex-person-I-competed-for-on-a-reality-show-with-25-other-people?

Was anyone else bummed Ben couldn't hang out just a little longer to reconnect with JoJo? Talk about awkward ...

I know everyone loved Rachel and her class and intelligence, but JoJo was my favorite Bachelorette in recent years. She brings the fun. I liked her presence.

For whatever reason, I have a soft spot for Clare. She has that annoying way of speaking, but she's a beautiful woman who seems to keep going for duds.  

Side note: I remember growing up, watching the Olympics on ABC for so many years. It's so interesting this is what's become of that tradition. 

Edited February 22, 2018 by kazza

[waving feather]

Yuki is annoying and attention seeking. Why was she dramatically sobbing over people she just met a few days ago. My goodness!

Edited February 22, 2018 by waving feather

[TheFinalRose]

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Why were they making the rejects leave in the middle of a blizzard?  And with no coats?  I'm sure they were probably just going down the road to the local Motel 6, but still!  Dang, that wind looked COLD!

I thought so too but then I figured they probably just drove them back to their room at the house they were all staying in, because it's Vermont, and late, and what's the rush? They probably left the next day.

I want to go on record as saying a big NO to another round of Ben as the Bachelor. He needs some counseling, IMO, not more women to confuse him. And he made it sound as if Lauren dumped him, but he was the one that put the brakes on their wedding planning, as revealed on "Ben and Lauren: Happily Ever After" a show I am very sad to admit that I watched from beginning to end.  After watching the show, you could see they were not happy and not going to make it.  

So the "winning couple" gets a gold-plated set of roses? Hilarious.

[yorklee2]

Quote

Was anyone else a little bummed Ben couldn't hang out just a little  longer to reconnect with JoJo? Talk about awkward...

He probably knew she was coming and got out beforehand.

[yorklee2]

34 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

I thought so too but then I figured they probably just drove them back to their room at the house they were all staying in, because it's Vermont, and late, and what's the rush? They probably left the next day.

I want to go on record as saying a big NO to another round of Ben as the Bachelor. He needs some counseling, IMO, not more women to confuse him. And he made it sound as if Lauren dumped him, but he was the one that put the brakes on their wedding planning, as revealed on "Ben and Lauren: Happily Ever After" a show I am very sad to admit that I watched from beginning to end.  After watching the show, you could see they were not happy and not going to make it.  

So the "winning couple" gets a gold-plated set of roses? Hilarious.

Well I know she had a new guy (like within 2 months) after they split so I always assumed she did dump him. Nothing wrong with that if she wasn't happy but I don't necessarily think because he postponed it that he didn't love her. I would be more worried about the fact he supposedly had a girlfriend when he went on Winter Games. That's why I'm skeptical he just wants back in the limelight more than anything.

[woodscommaelle]

Dean is so totally gross.

[TheFinalRose]

4 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

Well I know she had a new guy (like within 2 months) after they split so I always assumed she did dump him. Nothing wrong with that if she wasn't happy but I don't necessarily think because he postponed it that he didn't love her.

Yeah, Ben loved her and she loved him but he also put the brakes on the wedding planning pretty quickly, and that was because he saw issues cropping up that were serious enough to make him uncomfortable going forward with a wedding, a sentiment that Lauren did not share. So, IMO, there was something self-pitying in his sobfest last night, maybe a lack of acknowledgment on his part that his own doubts about the relationship contributed to the breakup. Made me wonder if he expected Lauren to wait around forever and she was more practical, saw the writing on the wall and realized it was better to move on. Maybe it was her ability to move on that devastated him, because she was certainly willing to marry him and he was the one that stopped it. 

[yorklee2]

9 minutes ago, TheFinalRose said:

Yeah, Ben loved her and she loved him but he also put the brakes on the wedding planning pretty quickly, and that was because he saw issues cropping up that were serious enough to make him uncomfortable going forward with a wedding, a sentiment that Lauren did not share. So, IMO, there was something self-pitying in his sobfest last night, maybe a lack of acknowledgment on his part that his own doubts about the relationship contributed to the breakup. Made me wonder if he expected Lauren to wait around forever and she was more practical, saw the writing on the wall and realized it was better to move on. Maybe it was her ability to move on that devastated him, because she was certainly willing to marry him and he was the one that stopped it. 

I can certainly see your point. Sometimes two people love each other but it's just not meant to be. I mean apparently waiting hasn't affected some of these couples. They're still together, happy and don't seem to be in a hurry. I guess it just depends on each person and situation.

As far as Ben doing the Bachelor again well... it depends. I think the show needs to give the next crop of bachelors first chance at the spot. But if there are no good or viable options then I guess it could be worse. I know a lot of people hated Peter but TPTB would probably still love to get him if he was agreeable. It's all just speculation right now anyway but I do think the TPTB are keeping their options open and what we saw last night was an audition.

[jade.black]

Courtney and Lilly are my favorite couple of the group, they genuinely seem like they're having fun and really into each other (without any weepy declarations of love, which is clearly why they've been given no screentime... oh, that and neither of them hooked up with an American contestant). Plus it's a realistic relationship! They can live in each other's countries! A technicality that the other international couples (and show) seem to be completely ignoring.

However, Lilly looks like she just walked straight out of a 90s teen sitcom (Saved by the Bell?) between the bangs, the lipstick with an otherwise clean-scrubbed face, and the plaid dresses.

I've done a total 180 on Luke and Stassi and actually think they both seem pretty deeply into each other. It could work out if they're both down for a whirlwind marriage. Stassi has already moved countries in the past so she might not have a problem doing it again once she's got the green card.

Chris Harrison to Yuki: Well, umm... this is awkward... we were hoping you'd kind of realize on your own, but we'd like you to head back to your side of the world now since we weren't the least bit clear about the rules of this competition and have decided we're done with the singles...

Poor Josiah and Ally! I think they really did like each other, and Josiah seemed very genuine with her. I was also shocked to hear he apparently didn't kiss a single woman from, what, May until December?? Maybe he's not the cocky type he seemed on Rachel's season. Oh, also, I found Ally to be one of the cuter women there.

I was feeling sad for Ben until I realized they were filming a Bachelor audition and then I felt betrayed by Ben's tears. You may come to Paradise, sir, but please do not take over yet another full season of this show.

Rachel was catty! Jojo was more fun than I remember her being on her season. Arie was pretty which is all I ask of him.

[ramble]

Good grief goose gravy! The bawling and mewling was ridiculous. You’d think people were dying. The folks leaving are having crying break downs and the ones staying are acting like the leavee is going off to face certain death. Group sobbing hug. High pitched squeaky cry. Ugh. Yuki made my teeth ache with the sounds she was making. And a big no from me for a Ben do over. The blizzard send off without coats made me laugh. I was impressed Michael left and still didn’t violate his two sentence limit per episode agreement.

The kiss off was just a bit disgusting. Groups watching each other make out and having it voted on? I vote no. I want ridiculous idiots doing wrong reasons things pretending they’re on a journey. I realized while watching people kiss that I quickly start to find it unattractive. I begin to see gaping maws and tongues warring and it stops being sexy or hot and just becomes gross. It loses its appeal. Not to mention the smacking, slurping sounds. Just eww. Eww. I did think JoJo and Arie had more fun than Rachel did. She seemed to miss how completely over the top stupid this was supposed to be. 

I agree with y’all that Ashley’s fashion sense is a thing of horror. She actually makes herself look worse. What the crap girl?! I do think she should have let Lesley borrow her Sandy/Grease outfit to do her embarrassing kiss dance in.  

I still can’t look at Stassi’s lips straight on. They look like odd pieces of extra flesh attached to her face. 

Courtney and Lily are so low key and get so little screen time but they seem to be having such fun. I often like the outtakes at the end more than the show. I wish we got to see more of that.

[Scout Finch]

Lone voice that does not find Benoit attractive at ALL. Perhaps it's because I strongly dislike facial hair but his hipster glasses also annoy me. Also probably alone in thanking Chris Harrison for losing the scruff!

[deSchenke]

What the heck is it with Yuki's voice?  I'm almost glad she doesn't speak much English or we'd have to endure more of her honking/whining.  That was awful!  I know when I've had laryngitis and you have to force air out to make any sort of sound - it sounds like Yuki.  No wonder she was left out on the tarmac.

[the-grey-lady]

13 hours ago, jade.black said:

Courtney and Lilly are my favorite couple of the group, they genuinely seem like they're having fun and really into each other (without any weepy declarations of love, which is clearly why they've been given no screentime... oh, that and neither of them hooked up with an American contestant). Plus it's a realistic relationship! They can live in each other's countries! A technicality that the other international couples (and show) seem to be completely ignoring.

I thought Courtney and Lily were adorable this episode, but I feel like we barely saw them before this episode. Honestly, I barely recognized either of them. If TB is going to do more international shows, then they should focus on the non-Americans, too...

[Destiny74]

Rachel was a bitch.  Sorry.  I don't watch the Bachelor or Bachelorette but I just didn't like her.  I also thought that other than Courtney and Lily and Kevin and Ashley, everyone else was at a severe disadvantage.  I would think it would be so uncomfortable to make out in front of anyone, much less someone I had already had a "relationship" with.   Rachel was way too critical in a contest that was a joke to begin with.

Bibbiana made a "joke" about Ally needing to puke when having to kiss Josiah. Ha Ha...she's sooooooo funny.  I thought it was rude and mean spirited.  The poor girl felt awful.  Josiah felt awful.  Not to mention they were mackin pretty hard from the get go.  Hell, first night.  At least they stayed with each other.  I mean, Ally didn't get thrown over for ASHLEY I of all people.  Ugly side showing Bibi.

Dean's a player.  However, the contest was a joke to me from start.  I think he and Lesley were

 trying to have fun with it.  God forbid someone not want to have mouth sex in front of their ex.

The comments about how Stassi was more into the kiss than Luke.  I was proud of Luke.  He was only going to kiss as deeply as Stassi was comfortable with so he let her lead.  Good for him.  If course, we know this because we see the talking heads and other scenes, the pretentious judges don't know the backstories.  

Claire annoys me.  And the no tears crying is too much.  She loves being in the Bachelor family and really plays up all they expect from her. Ugh!

[fib]

16 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

He probably knew she was coming and got out beforehand.

Ben was on Kaitlyns season, wasnt he? And Jojo is still engaged.  Im so confused by this!

christian and Clare, god bless.  These two could not communicate with each other. He needed something like an opening from her and she kept getting more put off when he was hesitant with her, exacerbating things