S09.E07: A Gay Olde Christmas

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Will, Grace, Karen and Jack wish they could have experienced Christmas in old New York City, but realize the past was not quite as romantic or open to diversity as they pictured it

[FormerMod-a1]

Well, that was ... interesting.

[Primetimer]

Our cast goes back to 1912 to try to convince us that things may seem bad, but they used to be worse?

View the full article

[Annber03]

6 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

Well, that was ... interesting.

Pretty much my thoughts. I did like the hopeful tone at the end, though, and the funny stuff over the credits.

And I got a good laugh out of Jack's reaction to Will's whole thing about complimenting other guys' mustaches :D. 

[SparklesBitch]

This might have been my favorite episode of the new season so far. I loved it and literally laughed out loud a bunch of times. 

I thought everyone was great, but Megan killed it. There were a lot of great jokes, but I’m pretty sure my favorite part was Jack trying to tell Karen that Will was gay and after she didn’t get it, finally ended with “he’s a homo”. 

That and the Oreos. And maybe the having to sell Smitty’s wooden leg to make rent. 

Or maybe I enjoyed it so much just because it looked like the cast was having a blast. Either way, I’ll be watching this episode over and over again! 

Edited to mention Will talking about complimenting other men’s mustaches. Loved it. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by SparklesBitch
More thoughts...

[SmithW6079]

8 hours ago, SparklesBitch said:

This might have been my favorite episode of the new season so far. I loved it and literally laughed out loud a bunch of times. 

I thought everyone was great, but Megan killed it. There were a lot of great jokes, but I’m pretty sure my favorite part was Jack trying to tell Karen that Will was gay and after she didn’t get it, finally ended with “he’s a homo”. 

That and the Oreos. And maybe the having to sell Smitty’s wooden leg to make rent. 

Or maybe I enjoyed it so much just because it looked like the cast was having a blast. Either way, I’ll be watching this episode over and over again! 

Edited to mention Will talking about complimenting other men’s mustaches. Loved it. 

I believe you mean Oh-ray-os. ?

Jack trying to tell Karen Will was gay with euphemisms was hilarious:

• He's a sweeper of chimneys
• Snake charmer
• He only travels by tunnel
• He's a mustache bumper
• He rubs the silverware without a cloth
• He plays the flute of the damned
• He's a homo

I laughed out loud when Will was talking about Jack while stroking his, um, stick.

Edited December 6, 2017 by SmithW6079

[TheOtherOne]

Yeah, I really enjoyed that. It was purely fun, and I can never get enough of that. I think removing it from "reality" only helped--so many of the recent episodes have been recycling plots they already did the first time around or just been kind of downers in the way they're still acting the way they do at their age. So this neatly sidestepped those issues, and the episode was so much the better for it. Fun!

[Sasha888]

1888 called, they'd like their drapes back! lol

So many good jokes in this one..."Smitty" making an appearance, "Sorry, the opium just kicked in, I didn't hear any of that"...just wish they'd stop thinking Grace's awful singing is funny. It's not. It's just painful to listen to.

[Ubiquitous]

"Painful" describes this show. I think I may have zoned out a couple times because the single-entendres and attempts at clever anachronisms were beyond tedious.

[greekmom]

If I wasn't channel surfing I would have missed this episode. When did they move from Thursday nights to Tuesdays?

Grace's NY accent was coming and going.

I loved Jack and Karen.  The discussion of Will's sexuality, Karen thinking she's going to have to sleep with Will to make the rent and Jack willing to take one for the team.

[LAFR]

I thought it was just terrible. Halfway through my husband turned to me and said "are you finding this funny" and I had to assure him that the other new episodes were better than this.

While I agree it looked like the cast was having fun, especially Megan Mullaly, it could not save this for me.

I really was hoping for a Debbie Reynolds tribute episode too.

Edited to add: between this and the dancing to Madonna scene earlier in the run I think they are setting the stage for Will and Jack to end up together and this was just to further that plot point along.  They needed a dream sequence / fantasy scenario to put it out there to the audiences without consequences in the main story line.

Edited December 6, 2017 by LAFR

[AriAu]

Quote

Halfway through my husband turned to me and said "are you finding this funny"

.Change husband to wife and that was the conversation in the AU household! Couple that with the fact that it took us almost an hour to watch it since we kept having to rewind to figure out what they were saying in those terrible accents.

Quote

1888 called, they'd like their drapes back! lol

Ok, that, along with the finger movement, was funny.

O Reos was cute and DM finally seemed to be able to find her inner Grace in that part, especially after dunking the O Reo.

Quote

While I agree it looked like the cast was having fun, especially Megan Mullaly, it could not save this for me.

Totally agree...and frankly, she seems like she has been having fun the whole season and has had no trouble finding Karen again.

[Whimsy]

1 hour ago, LAFR said:

I thought it was just terrible. Halfway through my husband turned to me and said "are you finding this funny" and I had to assure him that the other new episodes were better than this.

While I agree it looked like the cast was having fun, especially Megan Mullaly, it could not save this for me.

 

I agree.  I may have slightly chuckled at a couple of things, but this was way too hammy for me.  I didn't find any of the jokes clever.  DM's Grace still isn't the same yet and her way overacting with the Oreo's, especially dipping in the milk, was annoying.  Was she supposed to be like Fanny Price or something?  I think Megan did the best out of everyone, but still "meh" for me.

[iMonrey]

I thought it was really cute! OK so it was pretty self indulgent but clearly everyone was  having a blast and I loved how they managed to squeeze in not only Smitty but Beverly Leslie into the fantasy (and his business associate Benjy)! I thought Karen's Irish accent was hilariously over the top and got a kick out of all the kids when they kept asking if Jack had any money. Speaking of Jack, I had no idea Sean Hayes was so cut. His arms were quite impressive. No wonder Will was so interested. Seems like this was a love-it or hate-episode but for my money it's was the best of the new season so far.

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, LAFR said:

I think they are setting the stage for Will and Jack to end up together and this was just to further that plot point along.  

Oh, please, no

[John M]

I think this might have been the worst episode in the history of WIll & Grace which is a shame since everything so far has been solid and they always had such great Christmas episodes.

We kept looking at each other and asking what on earth were we watching?

2 hours ago, LAFR said:

between this and the dancing to Madonna scene earlier in the run I think they are setting the stage for Will and Jack to end up together and this was just to further that plot point along.  They needed a dream sequence / fantasy scenario to put it out there to the audiences without consequences in the main story line.

Nah, I do not see this at all, I know too many Will & Jacks, hell I dated my Jack for almost 3 years, it's a recipe for misery if they get together.

[roughing it]

I thought it was fun!  Although my Grandma, born and raised in Ireland, used to call them "light in the loafers" with a wink in her eye.

[Gothish520]

 Count me in the "loved it" camp. I mean, LOVED it! I will be watching this again for sure. Everyone was funny as hell, but it was especially great to see Debra Messing firing on all cylinders. Hopefully this will continue and we will see that old Grace spark back full time. Karen laughing at "Smitty's" tale of woe was hysterical. 

[Jillybean]

I didn't make it through the episode. 

[festivus]

4 hours ago, LAFR said:

Edited to add: between this and the dancing to Madonna scene earlier in the run I think they are setting the stage for Will and Jack to end up together and this was just to further that plot point along.  They needed a dream sequence / fantasy scenario to put it out there to the audiences without consequences in the main story line.

I really hope not. Can't two people just be friends?!

 

The episode was just okay, but Karen was on fire. So funny. I liked the two kids who got speaking lines too.

[TheGreenKnight]

I thought the show was hilarious even though I thought it would fall flat from the previews. Karen's bartender being one of the kids was probably my favorite part. Jack's euphemisms, Will and Grace being married because of course, and Will basically playing Ebenezer Scrooge were the other good parts about the episode, imo.

Count me as another who hopes Jack and Will don't end up together. Jack's always had a crush on Will going back to when they first met, but Will has never shown any interest. They would be horrible for one another.

[CJBinATX]

What's the current record for time between air date and Nonac submission? Because we have a new contender.

The premise of Christmas being too commercial is right from an 80s very special episode, the accents are bad but not so-bad-theyre-good, and the jokes do not warrant the howls of laughter they're getting from the audience.

The innuendo in this one was too much, capped off by turning a quote made famous by MLK into something dirty.

Homer Simpson's performance in "Rent 2" is more nuanced than what Eric McCormick is trying to do in this episode

And what a waste of Brian Posehn.

[SanDiegoInExile]

18 hours ago, greekmom said:

If I wasn't channel surfing I would have missed this episode. When did they move from Thursday nights to Tuesdays...

It was a special one-time airing, to capitalize on the *huge* ratings of The Voice. (And fill the gap now that This Is Us has ended the first half of their season).

The Olympics start in early February, so I am not sure when we will get new Thursday episodes. I can't imagine NBC would waste 5 of the remaining 9 episodes in January.

13 hours ago, John M said:

I think this might have been the worst episode in the history of WIll & Grace.

I agree. What a letdown.

[MaggieG]

"Last night I ate a rat" made me laugh. Also Will introducing Grace " This is my wife, she came along for some reason."

[eurekagirl mOo]

Well looks like 50% hated it and 50% loved it. I LOVED IT!!!!! I will watch this one over and over for when I need to zone out and laugh. Keep it coming W&G.......L  O   V   E......

[SnarkyTart]

The only positive thing I can say about this episode is that, instead of a reboot of W&G, there should have been a spinoff of Megan Mullaly as Karen.  Megan has been on fire in nearly every episode, slaying every one of her scenes.  She's the only cast member capable of carrying a show of her own.  I love the character and everything she brings to it.  IMO, NBC missed a huge opportunity in not making that happen.

[txhorns79]

I kept thinking, it's only seven episodes in and they've already run out of ideas. 

Was that picture they had over the fireplace at Will & Grace's 1912 house a picture of Debbie Reynolds as the Unsinkable Molly Brown? 

[TheOtherOne]

On 12/7/2017 at 1:44 AM, SanDiegoInExile said:

It was a special one-time airing, to capitalize on the *huge* ratings of The Voice. (And fill the gap now that This Is Us has ended the first half of their season).

The Olympics start in early February, so I am not sure when we will get new Thursday episodes. I can't imagine NBC would waste 5 of the remaining 9 episodes in January.

 

The show returns January 4 (as does the rest of NBC's Thursday night lineup).

[legaleagle53]

On 12/7/2017 at 7:19 PM, txhorns79 said:

I kept thinking, it's only seven episodes in and they've already run out of ideas. 

Was that picture they had over the fireplace at Will & Grace's 1912 house a picture of Debbie Reynolds as the Unsinkable Molly Brown? 

Yes.  Very fitting, since that movie was set in 1912 (Molly Brown was the heroine of the Titanic) and, if I remember correctly, won Debbie Reynolds an Oscar.

[sinkwriter]

Two things I laughed out loud at:

1) Karen's 1912 character snarking over Grace's clothing ("1888 called - it wants its drapes back")

2) the inclusion of Smitty in the past

Runner-up laughs: Grace getting hit in the face with a snowball for her singing. Heh. And I chuckled over the list of names Jack rattled off, trying to get "Carolyn" to realize that her landlord was gay.

[sinkwriter]

Oh, and I liked seeing the "blooper" sort of scenes during the end credits. I always like to see cast members of a show laughing or messing up lines or goofing around behind-the-scenes. It's fun. They should do that for the end credits of each week's show.

[Princess Lucky]

Such a polarizing episode!

Put me in the "I almost fell asleep" camp. When it came to the "Christmas story" I, too, only chuckled at a couple of moments (most of them involving Beverly Leslie and Karen's kids/Smitty) but the rest (accents included, save for Karen's) fell flat. The present day scenes were funnier to me, weirdly. I laughed out loud at "no table for old men" and "Santa's just another old white perv we once trusted". And they all looked great, Karen especially. That red coat paired with the red lip? Gorgeous.

Overall, I was a little disappointed because I was looking forward to this "special" episode, but I'm still enjoying the show as a whole.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Princess Lucky

[Zanne]

On 12/7/2017 at 6:19 PM, txhorns79 said:

Was that picture they had over the fireplace at Will & Grace's 1912 house a picture of Debbie Reynolds as the Unsinkable Molly Brown? 

 

On 12/8/2017 at 7:59 PM, legaleagle53 said:

Yes.  Very fitting, since that movie was set in 1912 (Molly Brown was the heroine of the Titanic) and, if I remember correctly, won Debbie Reynolds an Oscar.

Wow. I really do need to get the prescription for my glasses checked! I totally thought it was Barbara Streisand.

[April Bloodgate]

Painful. Uncomfortable. Embarrassing. I really struggled through this one. My partner, who doesn't normally watch with me, was next to me during this episode, and I felt like I had to keep saying how not funny it was so he didn't think the show was always like this. I was embarrassed to be watching it. I did appreciate Karen's accent and the Smitty reference, but that was it. And Grace, who I've really not enjoyed this season, was worse than ever.

[Bridget]

On 12/5/2017 at 9:37 PM, Sasha888 said:

1888 called, they'd like their drapes back! lol

So many good jokes in this one..."Smitty" making an appearance, "Sorry, the opium just kicked in, I didn't hear any of that"...just wish they'd stop thinking Grace's awful singing is funny. It's not. It's just painful to listen to.

THIS! It wasn't funny during the original run of the series and it's still not funny!

11 hours ago, April Bloodgate said:

Painful. Uncomfortable. Embarrassing. I really struggled through this one. My partner, who doesn't normally watch with me, was next to me during this episode, and I felt like I had to keep saying how not funny it was so he didn't think the show was always like this. I was embarrassed to be watching it. I did appreciate Karen's accent and the Smitty reference, but that was it. And Grace, who I've really not enjoyed this season, was worse than ever.

Debra claims that it took a while for her to "find Grace", but that she "found her again" after a few episodes. Sorry Debra Messing.

Agree to disagree.

I don't know what the hell it is. Save for the teal dress she wore to the restaurant, maybe it's how the the wardrobe dept. dresses her now (ugggggly) coupled with the writers not giving her strong material, resulting in her not being as quick witted as she once was?

NOPE! That's not it. It definitely took an episode or two for the cast to get their groove back, except Megan Mullally, who was amazing in the first episode of this season... and who was also robbed of a Golden Globe nomination!

I think so much has happened in her personal and professional lives that it's somehow impacted the way she portrays Grace. I'm not an actor, so I don't even know if that's even possible, but one of my favorite TV shows of ALL TIME is just not the same. I am so bummed. She has ZERO chemistry with Eric McCormack and that's just illegal on so many levels! I've been binge watching the original series on Hulu and God forgive me, Debra looks so much older now. Maybe that's it? I hate to come off as superficial, but does anyone else have a plausible reason why Grace Adler's face should be on a milk carton?

PS: Kudos to Megan for pulling off an amazing and consistent accent! My dad is from Belfast and even I had to turn them on for that episode! For those of you who struggled to understand her, might I suggest turning on the Closed Captions option on your TV the next time you're struggling to understand an actor instead of rewinding the TV multiple times? I'm using the Closed Captions a lot more than normal lately (I'm not hard of hearing) as there seems to be loads of actors who mumble these days due to writing quickly paced dialogue and I can't stand it. When I have to read while I watch TV, a happy camper I am not.

[Miss Dee]

I don't think I loved it, but I got a kick out of it and enjoyed it.

I think the key for me was that I was late watching it, so I'd read a synopsis of it shortly after it aired. I got out all my "What the hell were they thinking?!" feelings then. So when I actually sat down to watch it, knowing how farcical it was going to be and how it played into classic melodrama acting/writing tropes: I could enjoy it for what it was, and found the jokes funny.

On 06/12/2017 at 0:47 AM, SmithW6079 said:

Jack trying to tell Karen Will was gay with euphemisms was hilarious:

• He's a sweeper of chimneys
• Snake charmer
• He only travels by tunnel
• He's a mustache bumper
• He rubs the silverware without a cloth
• He plays the flute of the damned

I got most of those, but I have to admit #5 stumps me.

On 06/12/2017 at 0:21 PM, LAFR said:

Between this and the dancing to Madonna scene earlier in the run I think they are setting the stage for Will and Jack to end up together and this was just to further that plot point along.  They needed a dream sequence / fantasy scenario to put it out there to the audiences without consequences in the main story line.

Yeah, I'm picking up on that too. I'm kind of torn. On the one hand, everything everybody has said about W&J not being a good fit for each other. On the other: McCormack and Hayes have a *ton* of chemistry in this revival that either was simply not there in the original run, or it took me that long to read the nuances simply because I wasn't used to seeing male/male chemistry on screen back then.

I'm kind of open to it, but the writers would have to lay some groundwork for it, in Jack's character especially. Jack and Karen have always been more cartoonish than Will and Grace, so that's got to be addressed right off the bat. But I think they have the seeds of that with Jack's aging and realizing that the "twink" approach to pursuing hookups is going to stop working for him at any time now. As well, the placement of him at the school is a good one; he can support himself with odd jobs and pursue his passion of teaching acting and singing and music to schoolchildren. Both of those would go a long way towards making him a more realistic character, without watering down his over-the-topness that differentiates him.

Do that, put him in a transitional relationship (maybe with Kyle Bonheimer) and let us see what it looks like, and maybe fans would be more on board with it.

I will say this: the friends-falling-in-love-after-all-this-time is usually reserved for heterosexual relationships, simply because most LGBTQ character relationships exist on television dramas precisely to hook up. Outside LGBTQ-focused shows and maybe the odd genre drama or two, we don't really see two such people exist just as friends for that trope to even occur.

So I kinda see both sides - on the one hand, we have a long standing friendship between two gay men and that's rare for mainstream television. On the other, this is a chance to do the FFIL trope with two guys, and that's rare too.

Conclusion: we need more LGBTQ representation on television.

On 06/12/2017 at 1:16 PM, AriAu said:

DM finally seemed to be able to find her inner Grace in that part, especially after dunking the O Reo

DM might not be back to her exact old self yet, but this was the first episode where I felt she was as natural as the rest of the cast. It helps, I suppose, that the melodrama part is supposed to be hammy and over-the-top in execution. But I thought she was better even in the modern-day scenes.

On 06/12/2017 at 1:54 PM, iMonrey said:

Speaking of Jack, I had no idea Sean Hayes was so cut. His arms were quite impressive. No wonder Will was so interested.

The minute he took off that sweater I was all "Hello, Sean Hayes' guns! Where have you been all this time?!"

On 06/12/2017 at 3:05 PM, roughing it said:

I thought it was fun!  Although my Grandma, born and raised in Ireland, used to call them "light in the loafers" with a wink in her eye.

That's why Carolyn couldn't get it....John Patrick wasn't using the right euphemism!

Edited December 12, 2017 by Miss Dee

[J-Man]

On 12/8/2017 at 7:59 PM, legaleagle53 said:

if I remember correctly, won Debbie Reynolds an Oscar.

Debbie Reynolds never won an Oscar. 

[legaleagle53]

29 minutes ago, J-Man said:

Debbie Reynolds never won an Oscar. 

You're right.  She was only nominated for Best Actress for "The Unsinkable Molly Brown."  She lost to Julie Andrews for "Mary Poppins."

[Ubiquitous]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 10:51 AM, LAFR said:

Between this and the dancing to Madonna scene earlier in the run I think they are setting the stage for Will and Jack to end up together and this was just to further that plot point along. 

Heh. I assumed that's how the show ended.

[SanDiegoInExile]

On 12/15/2017 at 10:54 AM, Ubiquitous said:

Heh. I assumed that's how the show ended.

The show will never end.  NBC will bring it back every decade or so.

[legaleagle53]

10 hours ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

The show will never end.  NBC will bring it back every decade or so.

And every time they do, they'll just pretend that the last season of the previous revival never happened.  Because that's how they roll.

[Pink-n-Green]

I loved the episode as I've loved every episode in the re-boot!  Although, I didn't watch the series the first time around so I don't have that to compare them to.  I think part of the reason I love it is because it seems like the actors are having so much fun.

Question:  who was the short older man Will and Grace (or their 1912 alter-egos) ran into on the street?  I'm guessing he's normally part of the cast?

[sum]

3 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

I loved the episode as I've loved every episode in the re-boot!  Although, I didn't watch the series the first time around so I don't have that to compare them to.  I think part of the reason I love it is because it seems like the actors are having so much fun.

Question:  who was the short older man Will and Grace (or their 1912 alter-egos) ran into on the street?  I'm guessing he's normally part of the cast?

The paperboy? He is a recurring guest 'Beverley Leslie', Karen's a socialite frenemy . He's been on one of this years' episodes too.

[ButterQueen]

I'm just now watching this episode.  My mom passed away before Christmas, and I am just now able to watch Christmas shows.  Anyway, I loved it.  I smiled and laughed through every minute.  What a great show!  Grace getting hit with the snowball cracked me up.  I needed the laughs.

[Annber03]

Condolences on your loss, @ButterQueen. I'm glad the show was a nice bit of much needed comfort and happiness for you. 

[Bridget]

@ButterQueen

I can’t imagine what you went through, but I hope you’re healing just a wee bit more each day courtesy of the healing powers of our beloved Will, Grace, Jack and Karen.

I am sending you lots of love, peace and strength during this time and always.

[ButterQueen]

28 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Condolences on your loss, @ButterQueen. I'm glad the show was a nice bit of much needed comfort and happiness for you. 

 

11 minutes ago, Bridget said:

@ButterQueen

I can’t imagine what you went through, but I hope you’re healing just a wee bit more each day courtesy of the healing powers of our beloved Will, Grace, Jack and Karen.

I am sending you lots of love, peace and strength during this time and always.

Thank you both so much.  Will & Grace is just what I needed.  Like an old friend.  My mom loved Christmas, as do I, so this one was very difficult.  

[Gothish520]

Sending healing thoughts your way @ButterQueen - I lost my mom in 2016. Sometimes tv therapy is just what's needed to take us out of our heads and laugh for a bit. 

[ButterQueen]

2 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Sending healing thoughts your way @ButterQueen - I lost my mom in 2016. Sometimes tv therapy is just what's needed to take us out of our heads and laugh for a bit. 

I'm sorry for your loss as well.  You are so right about tv therapy -- I've been drawn to older shows that I enjoyed with my mom, like I Love Lucy.  Will and Grace feels like an old friend, and I love the reboot.  

[Gothish520]

3 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

I'm sorry for your loss as well.  You are so right about tv therapy -- I've been drawn to older shows that I enjoyed with my mom, like I Love Lucy.  Will and Grace feels like an old friend, and I love the reboot.  

Thank you <3 and yes, W & G definitely are old friends that I'm so happy.are back - I didn't realize how much I missed them! :)