S02.E07: The Most Disappointed Man

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Randall adjusts to the foster system. Kate and Toby take the next step in their relationship. Kevin visits Sophie in New York. Jack and Rebecca finalize Randall's adoption.

Promo:

[Guest]

I think I hate every Pearson in the present day. I guess Kate was nice tonight. Randall and Kevin was though- ugh.

Any episode with William is a disappointment. I guess you could say I am the most disappointed viewer.

[mojoween]

Randall is in SO FAR over his head.  He should know better than to tangle with a mama bear since he lives with a fierce one.

[mtlchick]

That was one odd breakup for Kevin.  He bought 3 rings and realized it's not for him so he sort of ended it...I think?  Maybe it's the drugs.

I pretty much zoned out for a lot of the episode.  Deja's hair was fabulous though.  

I've already stopped caring about the pregnancy and part of me there will be some tragic event that surrounds it.

And I love you Randall.  I really do.  That said, back up immediately.  You're in over your head and you're bound to lose.

Edited November 8, 2017 by mtlchick

[Katy M]

Randall was a judgmental buttwad.  I guess he came around at the end, but Deja is your foster child.  You don't get to tell her mother that you're going to fight for custody of her, which sounds like what he was basically going to do.  And nice job yelling at the poor overworked social worker.  Yes, there are some bad ones, but it's obvious she's not one of them.

I loved Toby's proposal and asking Jack's permission.  Yes, it was corny, but it was the best part of the epi.

I wish Kevin would just tell Sophie he's addicted to pain pills.

I liked the past adoption stuff, but I found the conversation with the judge unrealistic.  

I liked William's conversation with his judge, though.  

2 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

That was one odd breakup for Kevin.  He bought 3 rings and realized it's not for him so he sort of ended it...I think?  Maybe it's the drugs.

I think it was definitely the drugs.  And, I don't think that he realized it wasn't for him.  I think he was afraid that he was going to be soo terrible at it that he didn't want to subject Sophie and their possible children to the terribleness that he is.  I actually found the whole thing pretty sad.  I just wish someone would realize that he needs help.  But, everybody's all wrapped up in their own stuff. 

[Spartan Girl]

Totally knew the two judge's knew each other. This show...

William's judge ruled. As for the other one...look, racial identity is important but I'm so sick of family courts having hangups over the parents' race, religion, sexual orientation. The only thing that should matter is that the child is happy, healthy, and loved.

I loved Toby in this episode. From him talking to Jack's ashes to the T-shirts proposal and having to guts to break the news to his Catholic mother, he was really on his game. And give him credit for leaving it up to Kate what wedding she really wanted. Say what you want about him, but he can do a nice proposal.

Unlike Kevin. It's a good thing he didn't go through with a drunk proposal, but he could have handled that stuff with Sophie way better.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[MyAimIsTrue]

I loved this episode.  Loved it.  I loved how Randall saved William, how the judges came full circle with each other, the raw emotion of Deja's mother, and mostly I loved Jermel Nakia, the actor who plays Young William, as he was the unsung hero of the episode with that monologue at the beginning of the show. 

[ShortyMac]

I agreed with Linda (Deja's social worker); Randall doesn't know anything about foster care to say, "Sometimes, I wonder if anyone is really looking out for these kids." He's a newborn foster parent. And he can't do squat about Deja going back to her mom if Child/Family Services allows it; their goal is to reunite families.

Loved seeing Randall's adoption be approved. So heartwarming. Baby Randall is a cutie pie.

[chocolatine]

Team Deja's mom. I know Randall and Beth came around at the end, but they really pissed me off for most of the episode.

How has nobody noticed that Kevin is constantly high? Kate did notice that he was "off" but didn't follow up. Sophie is supposed to be a nurse, FFS.

I liked the young William parts - love that actor - but of course the show had to overdo that plot by having Randall show up just when William was going to OD.

I don't care about Kate and Toby's wedding planning no matter how many sweatshirts Toby wears.

[notcreative enough]

Aw William. To quote Dirk Gently "it's all connected"

Toby and Kate were adorable. They didn't really have all that much to do this episode.

Freaking Kevin you are making it so hard to like you. If I didn't have such fond memories of Fox Crane I would want you to die. He I so damn dumb it's not funny. Looks like the cracks are starting to show.

Thank God Randall pulled his head out of his ass in the end. You might care about Deja but you aren't her parents. She wants and loves her mother. I did love when Beth was pissed about the mother not going through with the visit. Having a visit with a black eye would be so much worse then not having on at all. Oh and Kitty you call Randall out for being such a jerk. This is his first foster kid and he is acting like he had years of experience in the subject.

[ShadowFacts]

Randall's little smile at Deja as she got the phone call got me.  Just about everything else fell pretty flat.  Kevin needs to never darken Sophie's door again, Toby needs to never speak to the urn again.  And in the past, people don't write a letter to a judge the way Rebecca did and have it turn out happily ever after.  Give me a break. 

[debraran]

I think in some states, during that time, some judges did feel that way although it seemed no effort was made to place Randall in another family. It's like he just came home with them.

I thought the "ashes talk" to me was odd, not if Kate did it but with Toby it felt off. I hope others didn't think so.

I think there will be a fight for custody, her lifestyle vs theirs, her genes and rights vs "what's best". I have a feeling season 3 will be about that. A few revelations for both I"m sure.

I hope Kevin crashes and burns soon so this painful spiral is over before the end of the season. Stop lying and be a man like your Dad was.

So the judges face with William wasn't the stop sign as much as Randall, forgot that. You never know what angel will save you.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

How has nobody noticed that Kevin is constantly high? Kate did notice that he was "off" but didn't follow up. Sophie is supposed to be a nurse

I said this last week, I don't think she's spent much time with him since his accident.  The last time he was in NY he was staying with Randall. He went back to CA, and now he came back and immediately broke up with her.  She hasn't had much chance to notice that.  She did notice he was drunk before, and that would probably cover up some of the high.

[AmandaPanda]

I really love the whole foster storyline. Maybe it's because I'm a foster care worker, but it's hitting all my buttons. I love that Randall is realizing they're in over their heads and is trying to figure out how to best take care of Deja. I'm looking forward to seeing how the rest of the storyline goes.

I'm glad to see there was more to Randall's adoption than just them taking him home from the hospital. Since he had been in the hospital at the same time as the other children, I do see how they could have been considered for placement. We have people who are considered "non-relative kinship" that take placement of kids who are in foster care. When we have babies that come into care at birth, the first people we consider (if there isn't any appropriate family members) are the people who worked in the hospital. I have a foster parent who was a child's NICU nurse when he was born and wanted to take placement of him. Babies start bonding so quickly to their caretakers. If Jack and Rebecca were able to talk with a social worker before leaving the hospital and got approved, they could have already started bonding with Randall. I'm glad the judge recused himself because it's clear he wasn't going to be able to make an unbiased decision. 

[elle]

off topic - Target Holiday Ad: What is Target up to now?  Did anyone else get a "the Pearson's are moving in!" vibe? Or was it just the placement/timing of the ad?

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, debraran said:

Stop lying and be a man like your Dad was.

Jack hid his alcoholism for at least a little while.

 

4 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

And in the past, people don't write a letter to a judge the way Rebecca did and have it turn out happily ever after.  Give me a break. 

That judge did need to recuse himself, though.

[mojoween]

On another note, I could absolutely get lost in those beautiful brown doe eyes of young William.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm not sure what their intent is with Kevin. Buying three rings, which had to have added up to tens of thousands of dollars, knowing Kevin, to having a drug-infused dream that showed Kevin's possible dark path, to breaking up with Sophie badly on her doorstep, that's just...I was a little disappointed with how it turned out. His whole story felt off, mostly writing wise. Justin Hartley is acting his butt off with what he's given. But man, Kevin, if you know that you're this broken, empty shell, just tell Sophie that you're also addicted to pills!

Randall is very, very judgmental. I'm super glad to see the social worker tell him off. Between that and William's judge giving him advice (which was great by the way), it's rare to see other minor characters knock some sense into our main characters. However, Deja's mom will probably get her daughter back once she gets out of prison. I guess they left out the exact time of her sentence, so that she can get out of prison in the not-so-distant future. It really did seem like Deja's mom was going to jail for years, but I'm willing to bet it'll only be, like, six months or maybe a year, at most.

The flashbacks were so good. I'm pleased that, after Rebecca being shit on as a character all last season to give Saint Jack the only speeches, they're finally balancing it out with giving Rebecca these same moments this season. I liked her letter to the judge, and I guess he figured out that he was being too biased and had to transfer her to another judge, who was more caring. I also loved the realism of them not getting to adopt Randall right from birth, but it was over a year before they could get it finalized. 

Ok, I'm continuing to not be annoyed at Toby this season...well, as much. Did he make a sex joke at any point this episode? Out of genuine curiosity, because it felt like he didn't and that helped a lot with making him likable. I loved his scene of talking to Urn Jack. I also really enjoyed his proposal. I totally expected his last sweatshirt before the question mark to say some celebrity name as a joke, so I'm glad they only stuck to the one level of humour.

I liked seeing Deja's smile when talking to her mom. I think, realistically, Randall and Beth wouldn't get to keep Deja. She would go back to her mom and the cycle would continue. The only way would be if they could convince Deja's mom to give up custody. I think it would be devastating to see Deja go back to live with her mom, but I also think that Randall and Beth adopting the first child they foster would be unrealistic. However, I am not expert on the foster system, so maybe it is common. 

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Did he make a sex joke at any point this episode? Out of genuine curiosity, because it felt like he didn't and that helped a lot with making him likable

I don't recall one.

[Blakeston]

I groaned at loud when we saw that William was just moments from falling off the wagon when Randall showed up at his door for the first time.

Even on a show known for schmaltzy plot twists, that felt especially over the top.

[chocolatine]

10 minutes ago, debraran said:

I hope Kevin crashes and burns soon so this painful spiral is over before the end of the season. Stop lying and be a man like your Dad was.

He's lying about the drugs/alcohol, but his confession that he feels like an empty shell with nothing to give absolutely rang true for me. That's not an excuse, I believe that he truly feels that way. It was one of his most authentic moments.

[stonehaven]

I loved this show tonight..but the main characters left me feeling a bit lectured to. It seems Randall is on this arrogant kick as of late....and to see him called out by both the social worker and the mother was nice. 

For once, the only character I did like was Toby!!!! He picked up on Kate's mentions of her father as to why she  didn't want a wedding..and he sensed something deeper...that's a good love..annoying to me...and totally not MY type but right for Kate...

So, Toby was the character I liked...huh?

[AmandaPanda]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

I liked seeing Deja's smile when talking to her mom. I think, realistically, Randall and Beth wouldn't get to keep Deja. She would go back to her mom and the cycle would continue. The only way would be if they could convince Deja's mom to give up custody. I think it would be devastating to see Deja go back to live with her mom, but I also think that Randall and Beth adopting the first child they foster would be unrealistic. However, I am not expert on the foster system, so maybe it is common. 

At least in the state of Kansas, it could be possible for her to stay with Randall and Beth long-term. Typically, when a child comes into care, the social workers start working with the parent(s) on a reintegration plan. We come up with tasks to address the issues that led to the child being removed from the home. In Deja's mom's case, a lot of this would depend on how long her sentence is. If she is working on her case plan from prison and trying to take steps to rectify the situation that led to her arrest and Deja being removed, then a judge would likely allow her to continue working until the end of her sentence and try to reintegrate Deja into her home. If Mom is in jail and doesn't do any sort of programs that are typically offered in prisons, then the judge would likely consider finding her to be an unfit mother and pursue severance of parental rights. If Mom is able to form a relationship with Randall and Beth and she is going to be in prison for a while, she could also consider doing a custodianship and signing over her rights to Randall and Beth without officially relinquishing them. I'd love to see Randall and Beth form a relationship with Deja's mom and try to help her. So often foster care storylines paint the biological parents as these monsters who don't care about their children at all. I've got 41 kids on my caseload right now. I truly believe that every parent loves their kids. A lot of them just don't know how to be parents because they didn't have strong parenting examples. That's not always true, but I would say it's true in the majority of the cases I've had. 

[ByaNose]

The stories never end on this show and I love it. I get sucked in every week. I liked the scene between Randall and Deja’s Mother. The whole sitting on which side of the glass was an interesting way of telling the story. It’s a story as old as time in television and movies but I never heard it written and spoken  this way. Yup! I’m a sucker for This is Us. 

[Neurochick]

Great episode.

Randall was quite judgmental, but I got where he was coming from.  Sometimes I hate that the foster care system wants to reunite families, even if they are fucked up.  I rolled my eyes at Deja’s mom when she said, “I gave her my blood.”  Lady, even mice can give birth, doesn’t make you a mother, and BTW where is Deja’s dad?

But I think the episode made a good point, that but for that old judge, William would have wound up in jail, just like Deja’s mother.

People do make their own choices, but the problem isn’t choices, the problem is options.

[Dreamboat Annie]

I hereby rename this episode "Telling Off Randall".  But was there any of it he didn't deserve?

I hereby nominate both women who told Randall off tonight for Emmys.  Both of them killed those scenes.

I hereby state that Deja and her mom belong together, once all is cool with mom.

I hereby declare Kevin a drug addict and hereby declare his loved ones all idiots for not seeing something is terribly wrong with him.

I hereby wonder if Rebecca and Jack gleefully left that courthouse with their newly legally adopted son and their daughter, forgetting Kevin?!

I hereby pronounce Toby as being good for Kate (at least tonight). 

I hereby proclaim this episode as very judge-centric.  I missed Dr. K, who I think really could have vouched for them about Randall. 

I hereby wipe away tears, again.  When all episode I was not expecting I would.  Dang you, show. 

[balmz]

was neutral on the episode, i was half expecting toby to pull down his pants and that his underwear would say marry me

[tennisgurl]

I liked this episode WAY more than last weeks. I got to feel those This is Us feels again. Yeah I know its schmaltzy, but I dont care. I especially loved the foster care story line, and I like how it all played out. Randall means well, but his ritious indignation all over the social worker and Dejas mom was annoying, and it was nice to see him getting smacked with reality. Its nice that he cares so much, but he is just jumping into a story that has clearly been going on for a LONG time, and is a lot more complicated than it might appear at first. 

Oh Kevin. He should have handled that break up better (like, SO much better) but it was still probably for the best, considering how quickly he is spiraling. His self esteem is basically zero, and it seems to be getting worse and worse, to the point that he thinks everyone is better off without him around. Dude is falling to pieces. 

Rebecca gets solid mom points for her heartfelt letter. I get what the judge was saying (as Randall really has struggled with his racial identity) but still, the Pearsons clearly already love him. Why does race have to be a factor in EVERYTHING? Again, I get his point, but still. 

I knew the judges would know each other, but I still liked their last conversation. I am just a big sucker for those "random people can shape your life" things this show loves. 

[VioletNevermind]

After a very shaky episode last week (seriously, the ambulance can’t get through because trick-or-treaters are in the way?!), this week restored my faith in this show.  The writing was reminiscent of the first few episodes when I was just blown away by how engrossing it was.  

Kate and Toby.  I have never appreciated Toby’s, well, “unique gifts,” but this week redeemed him somewhat.  For one thing, he seems to have calmed the fuck down, which is a major point in his favor.  His layered hoodie proposal (*patient sigh*) was certainly not my taste, but it suited his relationship with Kate.  As for the baby, I hate to say it, but I don’t think that “story” will ever come to fruition.

1980’s Jack and Rebecca.  I love how hard they fought to keep Randall despite the views of the first judge.  One nitpick: A judge in real life would never, ever, ever invite people in an active case back to his chambers to have an off-the-record conversation about the details of the case.  Come on, show.

Randall and Deja.  I didn’t like how aggressive he was toward Deja’s mom, but I can understand his frustration.  That being said, he needs to dial it way, way down.  I want to shake him and remind him that Deja is not there to right the injustices of his childhood.  I love Randall to bits, but he’s really arrogant lately.  I was cheering on my couch when the social worker admonished him for his flip, judgmental comment about wishing someone was “looking out for these kids.”  Every word she said was the god’s honest truth.  (Hats off to any social workers among us; you’re amazing people!)

Kevin.  Yuck, yuck, yuck.  If Sophie ever allows him back in her life, she has only herself to blame.  

Best moments: Older William’s near-relapse being interrupted by Randall knocking on his door for the first time; the white judge’s speech to younger William about remembering his face when he was close to messing up in life (the source of my first tears of the evening), Randall’s awesome line to Deja’s mom about waking up every morning next to a headscarf and coconut oil, and Sophie slamming the door in Kevin’s sweaty goddamn face as he was breaking up with her on her own doorstep after convincing her to take him back.  I cannot stand him!

Edited November 8, 2017 by SuzyLee

[bybrandy]

Team Deja's mom.   Team Deja's social worker.  I mean I still love Randall most of all the Pearson's but totally deserved many of the owning he got tonight.  And for Deja's sake I hope her mom does pull it together but she will be in long term and sometimes peoples best intentions don't come to fruition.  Pulling for her, though.  

I am not getting invested in the Toby Kate baby because I still don't think that kid is going to be born.  But I am totally rooting for the parents tonight.  I liked both that Toby told her she could have the fairytale if she wanted or city hall.  He knew which one she was likely to pick but he didn't pick for her.  

Kevin was a total jerk tonight but in the way that addicts are jerks.  Hope he gets some help soon and realizes he is capable of feeling... At least I hope he's capable of feeling.

[elle]

What version of "Time after Time" is "Kate's"?  Cyndi Lauper's version is there and I would not have been surprised if she would have sung it for the episode.

What do we know of Deja's mom's story?  Does it seem that Deja rolls her eyes at most of what Randall says?  I noticed it with "car bagel" and his greeting to the room of "hey little mamas".

3 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

hereby declare his loved ones all idiots for not seeing something is terribly wrong with him

Only because that is they way they have been written.   I think in real life, it isn't as simple as that.   Even people living together do not see the signs until things become glaringly obvious.  Like Kate, a loved one may explain away someone's behaviour as having an off day.   To Sophie's credit, she did recognize that Kevin was spiraling, but she was overwhelmed by her own feelings and may have explained away behaviour because of past bad behaviour i.e. drunkenness.

Just saw the previews, what are the odds Kevin will have a breakdown at the presentation to him at the high school?

Edited November 8, 2017 by elle
spelling

[Rachel RSL]

Apparently there will never be an episode of this show that doesn't make me cry. And any scene with young William will do it every time. 

I'm ready for Kevin to overdose and die. Not that they would actually kill him off but I wouldn't shed a tear over losing him. I keep trying so hard to find something to like about him but there's just nothing. He's an annoying man-child, on drugs or not. 

I still find Toby beyond annoying. At least there was no Miguel tonight so that's a win.

[voiceover]

Ah Beth, my Beth! finally, a meltdown; a wild, impractical raging; finally, your perfection has a c****!   I no longer fear you, and we can be friends.  In my head.

I want to hug the writer who came up with the "exposure" idea.  The category is "Family photos: another thing we never knew would be a problem."

That scene with William meeting privately with the judge, pulled me right back to a description in my all-time favorite book:

Quote

Jacob ...[had] come before a kindly Tory magistrate once in the course of a troubled youth. [It] taught [him] to hate the sin and not the sinner.

How fortunate we are, to meet such influences in our lives.  Near the end of the show, when William looked across the table, past the needle, & saw the judge again? I mean, I'm such a Jimmy Fallon-joke; I cry every episode of this show; but I did not expect to cry here.

"What is a parent?" seemed to be Theme de jour.

[WhosThatGirl]

Well. I’m still meh on this season as a whole, but a lot of tonight’s episode got a “can’t believe they actually they said that” first with the judge refusing to allow The Pearsons to adopt Randell and yes while I’m sort of happy it wasn’t all perfect Pearsons, the judge was just rude, then to Dejas mom and her responses to Randall “your wife is white then..” and then to her saying she will be getting out, but also this isn’t the first time she’s been in prison so she’s probably had this mentality before and it’s expected but still and then having the same reaction to Kevin telling Sophie when he thinks about their future, it’s a nightmare. Like wow.

[Amethyst]

Randall's stuff was so predictable, I was glad he got told off.  His discussion with Beth was the smartest thing he did all night.  They're not going to win Deja over by demonizing and fighting her mother.  For now, they need to meet halfway.  Something tells me Deja won't end up with them permanently.

There's no doubt that Rebecca and Jack loved Randall and would raise him in a loving home.  But I can see the judge's concerns.  As a Black man, Randall would have entirely different experiences in life than the rest of his family.  We've seen that several times in the show.  And if he has questions about why things are the way they are, he'll inevitably go to his parents.  But it's different to hear the explanation from someone who realizes it's wrong, versus someone who understands it because they experienced it themselves.  The judge had to keep all that in mind.  But he did understand his own bias, so it was smart of him to recuse himself.  And the right decision was made in the end.

Kevin must have some serious money to get 3 rings, even if he wasn't planning on keeping two of them.  I'm not opposed to the addiction plot, he's just so adrift.  I was hoping someone at the hospital would somehow realize that he was high (or in withdrawal) and say something.  Because wow, what a waste of time that was.  He's obviously not in a good place for marriage, they could have spared us the rest.  Since the actress playing Sophie is pregnant, suppose this is the reason they get rid of the character for now.  But I don't blame Sophie at all, she was right.  Kevin is the one who barged back into her life, now he's spiraling out of control and Sophie has no idea why.  

[sigmaforce86]

Randall is always right, Randall always has a plan, Randall doesn't do anything where he can fail.  Therefor, if Randall is always right he gets to tell everyone how they are wrong, why they are wrong and how he'll do it better (i.e. "right").  This is how Randall's world works in his mind and he seems to have a new project in Deja where he can go all out to prove it.  He's not completely wrong that the foster system fails kids at times or that some Mom's need to have their rights terminated but he's gone from 0 to 60 in what he thinks he knows about the system and Deja in particular.  This is either going to end badly for him with Deja going back to her Mom or too sweet an ending where she stays with them.  For this show though every plot needs a twist and the twist I don't want is Randall convincing Deja's Mother that she's better off with them and Mom signs over her rights.  I have no idea how I want this plot to go except right now, after that speech at the prison I sort of don't want Randall to "win"

Kevin's story makes me sad - I can't stand seeing people on a down spiral doing crazy stuff like buying three engagement rings even if it's fiction.  Someone up thread said they wish Kevin would just say he's addicted...........my prediction (totally unspoiled, just an idea of what could happen).....his final drug crash and burn freak out comes at Kate and Toby's reception.  It's the perfect place for a public meltdown and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happens.

Anyone else notice the family dynamic at the court appearances?  Jack holds Kate, Rebecca holds Randall, Kevin is left in the carriage both times.  That had to have been done on purpose to again highlight that  Mom & Dad had their favorites and that Kevin being almost always the odd man out started early.

Edited November 8, 2017 by sigmaforce86
his is word, him is word. Hims is not a word!

[tennisgurl]

Really, any episode with William will lead to more tears from me. The moment where William was about to shoot up after finding out about his cancer, and saw the judge again? And then Randall knocked on the door? Oh my God I lost it. The tissue box emoticon on Twitter basically summed it up. Also, I love Time After Time. That was a great version too. 

I can buy people not getting that theres something wrong with Kevin right away. I think people can rationalize at lot when a family member is hurting or spiraling, and they arent sure what to do. You can say that "oh, he was just having a bad day" until you realize how many bad days there have been lately. Especially as most of the people in his life seem to have a lot of other things going on. And, as we have established, Kevin's family have never paid much attention to him anyway. He has always been the one they dont have to worry about, so they wont be looking for something wrong.  I do hope they catch on soon. Kevin has basically been a perfect storm of drug problems for ages. He has low self esteem, money, is in the entertainment industry, doesn't deal with emotions very well, and has a family history of drug addiction. I assume no one will find out until Kevin has a big public meltdown, or ODs at Kate's wedding reception or something.

Edited November 8, 2017 by tennisgurl

[ChromaKelly]

I was hoping Rebecca's letter was going to be about how she considered the judge's words and was asking him to help, be a mentor, or for some advice on how to raise her black son into a black man. No, it was all love is enough we're the Pearsons blah blah. At least they covered the family photos thing. It's real. I'm always turning up the exposure.
I didn't like Randall this ep, but he redeemed himself a little at the end.
Surprise for me, I didn't hate Toby for once. His sweatshirt proposal is not my thing, but at least he did it at home and not over a loudspeaker at the mall or some shit.
Kevin  - I feel like the writers don't know what to do with him. 
William - I should have been moved, but I wasn't. Eh.

[ByaNose]

Kevin is the weakest character of the 3 siblings. I guess there isn't much to do with a good looking guy playing an actor. I also think Justin Hartley is the weakest of the actors, too. I've been watching him since Passions. He can act but he is the weakest  of the actors on the show. The role of Kevin isn't written as well and his storylines aren't as strong as Randall's and Kate's. It just isn't there. IMO!!!

[Runningwild]

Oh, Crash, you do make speeches. I’m getting tired of this show. I had such high hopes for it too. 

Randall was such a jerk!

Edited November 8, 2017 by Runningwild

[Aw my lahgs]

The custody situation will probably end in Deja’s mom OD’ing or tragically getting killed on the streets and they’ll end up adopting her.

[methodwriter85]

50 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

I was hoping Rebecca's letter was going to be about how she considered the judge's words and was asking him to help, be a mentor, or for some advice on how to raise her black son into a black man. No, it was all love is enough we're the Pearsons blah blah.

I thought that too, but then I realized it wouldn't have jibed with what we see in the Pool Day episode set in summer 1988 or summer 1989. In that episode, Rebecca finally comes to the realization that Randall needs to be around other black people, including taking her son to a black barber and having Randall make friends with the son of the black lady they met at the pool. That what makes Rebecca decide to reach out to William, as well as having Randall take karate lessons with a black male figure. It would have been annoying if they went that route, because we knew from the show's continuity that Randall doesn't have any significant black role models until he's 8/9 years old.  It feels more consistent that Rebecca pulled that "love is enough" stuff, because it takes her 8 years to realize that no, there are some things that she and Jack just cannot do for Randall because he's black and they are not.

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Randall's stuff was so predictable, I was glad he got told off.  His discussion with Beth was the smartest thing he did all night.  They're not going to win Deja over by demonizing and fighting her mother.  For now, they need to meet halfway.  Something tells me Deja won't end up with them permanently.

The purpose of fostering a child is taking care of someone who can't be taken of by their parents, either permanently (they're dead or beyond rehab) , or until they're able to get it together. If Deja's mother gets it together and CPS deems her capable, there really isn't much either Beth or Randall can do.

[MelGoLightly]

Loved the episode and had a lot of "and this is why I am a subscriber to this show for the long haul" moments. 

I love that this show is not linear or snippets or chronological. It's so round - like an onion with layers being peeled back as it rotates. When you think you know the story of a character, another layer is peeled back revealing more of the full story. In fact, as demonstrated by the call back to Randall's appearance at William's door, I find myself almost having forgotten details from season 1 even though the way we know the characters is only possible because of the slow build we're being given. 

Toby was palatable. Okay - that's a nice change!

Kate was preoccupied with marriage and being 1st time 1st trimester pregnant and brushed off her instinct that Kevin was in trouble. The first sign of her departing from being joined at the hip with him. And it's totally typical for those huge life events to kind of take over the mind - I get it. I think it was a really subtle and clever way for the writers to separate her from Kevin's storyline so he could spiral. 

Kevin's story is making my head hurt. Make it stop. I think my trouble with it is that it seemingly very sudden and almost deliberate. Maybe I just don't know enough about addiction. I always assumed that it was a slow build. It seems like he dove head first into an addiction that he showed zero signs of previously. 

I think the Randall/Beth/Deja storyline is really robust. They were both totally out of touch at different times and in different ways in this episode. Their intentions are on point. But their ignorance of Deja's situation is cringeworthy. But they are trying super hard damnit, and really care. So, misplaced intentions are better than bad ones. And at the end of the day, Deja is safe for now. I am genuinely stumped at. how that story line will develop. I hope it's not some convenient construct leading to Deja having to stay with them - like mom gets killed in jail or something. 

I really liked the two judges' scene at the end.

The star of this episode is Young Randall. He is such an incredible actor. I really. enjoy watching him and it's incredible how seamless the old and young William are - really astounding acting on both their parts. 

Speaking of old/young versions of the characters, I have trouble with continuity from 10/yo Randall to teen Randall to adult Randall. I can see teen & adult but I struggle with 10 year old. That said, looking at teen Kate's face I can see that she weighed less at the time and perhaps her face could grow around her features. I think the three versions of Kate are believable. Kevin...blond, cute, easy to cast. Meh. 

Overall, I thought this was a really rich episode and I enjoyed it.

I'm very much looking forward to moving on with more info on the Jack death plot and figuring out what happens with the dog, cast, and red head from the s2e1 end scene. I wonder if the three advertised featurettes for the Big 3 are meant to reveal those specific moments leading up  the winter break/fall finale (because now that is a thing I guess).

[NeverLate]

Any episode with William in, is a bonus for me. 

I loved Toby, when he was speaking to the urn, too funny., then telling Kate if she wants a wedding with all the trimmings, , she should have it

I teared up when the judge read Rebecca's note. The judge was an @ss,at least he recused himself

Randall was too judgemental, Dejas mother seems nice.

Kevin, what a mess he is..at least he loves Sophie enough to let her go though, he knows the mess ( sigh)

 

Good show tonight!

[MelGoLightly]

15 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I was hoping Rebecca's letter was going to be about how she considered the judge's words and was asking him to help, be a mentor, or for some advice on how to raise her black son into a black man. No, it was all love is enough we're the Pearsons blah blah.

I thought it was going to be a much more scathing letter but with the same subject matter that she wrote in the episode. Along the lines of "how dare you judge my family, family is family, bleh blah bloo, etc."

[Aw my lahgs]

20 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I thought that too, but then I realized it wouldn't have jibed with what we see in the Pool Day episode set in summer 1988 or summer 1989. In that episode, Rebecca finally comes to the realization that Randall needs to be around other black people, including taking her son to a black barber and having Randall make friends with the son of the black lady they met at the pool. That what makes Rebecca decide to reach out to William, as well as having Randall take karate lessons with a black male figure. It would have been annoying if they went that route, because we knew from the show's continuity that Randall doesn't have any significant black role models until he's 8/9 years old.  It feels more consistent that Rebecca pulled that "love is enough" stuff, because it takes her 8 years to realize that no, there are some things that she and Jack just cannot do for Randall because he's black and they are not.

The purpose of fostering a child is taking care of someone who can't be taken of by their parents, either permanently (they're dead or beyond rehab) , or until they're able to get it together. If Deja's mother gets it together and CPS deems her capable, there really isn't much either Beth or Randall can do.

Randall had a role model in his life. His father, Jack.

[MelGoLightly]

A black role model. That's the entire point of at least 1/4+ of this show's themes: black identity. And it's a really important part of growing up as a young black person. Yes, Jack was a major role model, but was inherently unable to provide cultural context and lessons to Randall that a black father could have provided. 

9 minutes ago, Aw my lahgs said:

Randall had a role model in his life. His father, Jack.

A black role model. That's the entire point of at least 1/4+ of this show's themes: black identity. And it's a really important part of growing up as a young black person. Yes, Jack was a major role model, but was inherently unable to provide cultural context and lessons to Randall that a black father could have provided. 

[izabella]

I really wish one of Kevin's loved ones would notice he needs help because I can't take Sweaty Kevin anymore.  But Randall had a breakdown, so I guess Kevin will have one, too.

Toby's proposal to Kate was cute, and she loved it.  That was a nice moment for them.  I like that he immediately picked up on why Kate might not want a family wedding as soon as she mentioned not having Jack to walk her down the aisle.  He even knew to suggest she walk down the aisle holding the arms of her two brothers. 

[MelGoLightly]

4 minutes ago, izabella said:

I can't take Sweaty Kevin anymore. 

Yasss. Please, enough with broken, frantic, sweaty Kevin. 

[chabelisaywow]

2 hours ago, elle said:

What version of "Time after Time" is "Kate's"?  Cyndi Lauper's version is there and I wound not have been surprised if she would have sung it for the episode.

Maybe too expensive for rights?