S09.E05: How To Succeed In Business Without Really Crying

[Tara Ariano]

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Grace takes on a big job: decorating a string of boutique hotels for an obnoxious mogul. Meanwhile, Will is surprised at his reaction to making senior partner; Beverly Leslie discloses a secret to Karen; and Jack owns half of a winning lottery ticket.

[ari333]

I like the return of Beverly

[mtlchick]

Will and Grace working together?  What could POSSIBLY go wrong.

 

I'm starting to see the argument about Debra Messing not settling back into back into the role like the other 3 have.

[Annber03]

Just now, mtlchick said:

Will and Grace working together?  What could POSSIBLY go wrong.

My thoughts exactly. This should be interesting...

Some good one-liners this episode, though. 

[thejuicer]

I stopped watching after 10 minutes. The bit with Grace and her prospective client was totally unfunny to me, and her assistant does nothing for me.

I'm a huge fan of the show and have all their DVD's, which I still watch and laugh out loud at. It's too bad that at least for me, they haven't recreated that magic.

[vesperholly]

Max Greenfield, totally wasted :(

[SparklesBitch]

I’ve never liked Beverly, so I didn’t expect to like this episode much...and I didn’t. 

I DID get a kick out of Jack and Theodore arguing over the lottery ticket and was glad the money went to a good cause in the end. 

And Karen is always a treat: “Actually, tell them I played the back nine and need a front rub!” =) Her delight over the morphine drip cracked me up......also, I really truly did choke on my tea for a second when she said “Don’t cry, you look like Jeff Sessions watching a black man vote.” So perfect! 

Otherwise....I’m meh on this episode. Haven’t they done the whole Grace pimps out Will to get a design job thing before? Or maybe I’m remembering wrong.

Also, as much as I think Will and Grace working together is a terrible, terrible idea, I’m looking forward to the inevitable wacky hijinks.....

Edited October 27, 2017 by SparklesBitch
A word

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, SparklesBitch said:

“Don’t cry, you look like Jeff Sessions watching a black man vote.” 

Favorite line of the episode :D. 

[Primetimer]

Grace's hot new potential client may need convincing in the form of sex with Will. Normal stuff.

View the full article

[useryikes]

A few OK one-liners, but overall pretty weak.  Karen is really starting to grate - I can do without the dirty old woman thing.  

[televizzyizlyfe]

how can they not have rewatched the original series??

[janie jones]

The guy playing Grace's assistant is a bad actor.  Also, he's not ugly, but he's not as good looking as they keep acting like he is.

This episode was really hammy.  Like, when Karen was thinking out loud about who could have stolen her room or whatever, I half expected her to gesture offstage and welcome that somebody into the scene.

Also, how could the country club have possibly double booked the room?  How would they both have gotten a key to the room?

[TheOtherOne]

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Haven’t they done the whole Grace pimps out Will to get a design job thing before? Or maybe I’m remembering wrong.

Yep, with Miguel Ferrer (RIP) back in Season 1. And in Season 7 Will had doubts about his corporate law career, which led him to quit to do something else before. After doing the infiltrating-a-conversion-therapy-group plot last week, I can't wait to see what they'll come up with next week. Maybe Grace will try to impress a guy who thinks she has big boobs and decide to get a water bra.

The lottery plot didn't do anything for me, but everything in the first Karen-Beverley Leslie scene made me laugh more than everything in last week's episode combined.

Edited October 27, 2017 by TheOtherOne

[MyAimIsTrue]

6 hours ago, janie jones said:

The guy playing Grace's assistant is a bad actor. 

I think it's the way his character is written which is almost like an afterthought.  Anthony Ramos comes from the theater world (he was an original cast member of "Hamilton") and he's actually quite good.

[Jillybean]

10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Favorite line of the episode :D. 

Seriously, I busted out laughing so loudly (watching on DVR early this morning) that I thought I would wake up my husband.

8 hours ago, janie jones said:

The guy playing Grace's assistant is a bad actor.  Also, he's not ugly, but he's not as good looking as they keep acting like he is.

Fully agree. I'm perplexed by his casting if he is supposed to be this great-looking guy. He doesn't have much to do.

[Corgi-ears]

I feel like we're all friends here, so you guys would tell me if I'm crazy, right? Right?

Because early in the episode, we see Karen in the country club hotel room, and there is a funny portrait on the wall behind her: it's a Westie dressed in a preppy blazer. Which is well and fine, but at the 3:10 mark of the episode, I SWEAR THE WESTIE WINKS. Like so:

 

 

Have I gone insane, or is someone yellow wallpaper-ing me?

Edited November 4, 2017 by SilverStormm
updated gif link

[bichonblitz]

13 minutes ago, Corgi-ears said:

Because early in the episode, we see Karen in the country club hotel room, and there is a funny portrait on the wall behind her: it's a Westie dressed in a preppy blazer. Which is well and fine, but at the 3:10 mark of the episode, I SWEAR THE WESTIE WINKS.

Ahhh yes! That is hysterical! You have a great eye to notice that. There must be some private joke/meaning to that wink.

Edited October 27, 2017 by bichonblitz

[bichonblitz]

I wish they would leave Will as the uptight lawyer I have always loved. I do not at all want to see him working with Grace. They don't have the chemistry they once had. 

Megan Mullally is aging well and her body is fantastic. Debra Messing not as much. Too much big red hair, maybe? 

Edited October 27, 2017 by bichonblitz

[txhorns79]

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Megan Mullally is aging well and her body is fantastic. Debra Messing not as much. Too much big red hair, maybe? 

I think Debra normally looks fine, but they seem to really dress her in unflattering styles on this show.  I don't know if that is supposed to be Grace's normal style (I swear she used to dress in a more flattering way during the first run), but they don't really do the character any favors.  

Quote

Anthony Ramos comes from the theater world (he was an original cast member of "Hamilton") and he's actually quite good.

 

  My thought was maybe that he's more of a theater actor, and isn't doing a great job of translating that to television.  It's kind of like how there are actors who are excellent in movies or tv, but are only so-so stage performers. 

[Gothish520]

30 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think Debra normally looks fine, but they seem to really dress her in unflattering styles on this show.  I don't know if that is supposed to be Grace's normal style (I swear she used to dress in a more flattering way during the first run), but they don't really do the character any favors.  

 

I actually like most of her wardrobe this season. The issue for me is the botox. My sister and one of her friends used to get it regularly, and the arched eyebrows are a dead giveaway. 

[AriAu]

This was the least funny episode so far and with all the topical jokes, it will not hold up well on re-watch. Was the show this topical before.

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Megan Mullally is aging well and her body is fantastic.

I was thinking the same thing and then I realized that they are shooting her from pretty far away and with really flattering lighting to help her appearance and I bet there is a lot of heavy duty spanx holding the rest in place or whatever place they want it. All that being said, she is pretty well preserved.

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Debra Messing not as much. Too much big red hair, maybe? 

Unlike MM, DM is not as well preserved and as far as the angles and shots, it reminds me of the exchange from Tootsie "..... to make her look a little more attractive, how far can you pull back?.....How do you feel about Cleveland"...or was it Baltimore, I get them confused.

[WhosThatGirl]

This episode proving again that the writers should have insisted ALL of season 8 should have been erased and not thought about, and I still go back to what I said when the revival was starting all of
Season 8 is being retcon.. but then they still talk about Will having been married or with Vince before this reboot and I get confused- Vince didn’t come until the last season so we can’t just pretend all of that didn’t happen.

I didn’t like this episode very much.

[JayD83]

Debra Messing played "Grace" better on her other NBC show "The Mysteries of Laura" than she does on this revival.  She's like, really bad.  I wonder what happened? 

[iMonrey]

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Yep, with Miguel Ferrer (RIP) back in Season 1. And in Season 7 Will had doubts about his corporate law career, which led him to quit to do something else before. After doing the infiltrating-a-conversion-therapy-group plot last week, I can't wait to see what they'll come up with next week. Maybe Grace will try to impress a guy who thinks she has big boobs and decide to get a water bra.

As much as I like the idea of the show being back and look forward to it every Thursday night, I have to agree that so much of it seems like re-hash. I just haven't seen anything yet in these first five episodes that makes me think they had any really new ideas for this show that would justify a return to it.

Remember when Will was up for partner when Lily Tomlin was his boss? Is there a distinction between partner and senior partner? Is it a different law firm? 

I'm really not enjoying Jack's storyline either. Then again he's always been the character that annoyed me the most. I just don't find it very believable that anyone would ever be friends with him.

I do always get a kick out of Beverly Leslie though. "Well, well, well." 

[mmecorday]

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The issue for me is the botox.

Oh, I thought she maintained her youthful looks using Cindy's Crawford's overpriced melon cream?

My issue with the reboot is that although the characters have all advanced in age, they haven't matured at all.

[Princess Lucky]

15 hours ago, mtlchick said:

I'm starting to see the argument about Debra Messing not settling back into back into the role like the other 3 have.
 

I've thought that from the start of this revival, but last night I actually thought I saw some improvement, for the first time, heh. She felt less stiff to me.

5 hours ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

I think it's the way his character is written which is almost like an afterthought.  Anthony Ramos comes from the theater world (he was an original cast member of "Hamilton") and he's actually quite good.

I think sitcom acting and acting in general (let alone stage acting) are different. Even otherwise hilarious actors have trouble landing punchlines in a more traditional sitcom setting. Anthony Ramos can't land a punchline to save his life (though the poor writing doesn't help either). And yet I remember an SVU appearance in which he was more than fine. It's not a lack of talent, he's just miscast. Compare him to Andrew Rannells, the other week. Also a talented stage actor, also working with below par lines, but I felt he nailed every single line reading. It's unfortunate that Ramos is there in a recurring capacity, they really should have been more careful in casting that role (instead of, I assume, relying on the success of Hamilton).

I enjoyed Beverly Leslie's return.

But I still agree that the show isn't feeling so fresh. There seem to be two or three plotlines every week, and usually only one of them is amusing. No single episode has hit on all cylinders for me yet. Maybe we need a group-focused episode, because the solo ventures are far less amusing unless a guest star is good enough to spice them up.

[festivus]

I think Grace's clothes have always been horrible. That said, while last nights dress was still horrible, it was much more flattering on her. So now Will and Grace are going to work together. I hope at least this plot will get a better performance out of DM.

[william0102]

Grace's clothes have always been unflattering. I never understood why- if it was wardrobe, or if they just thought a Jewish "fruit fly" cannot dress herself.

I get there are new writers with the show now, but how old are they? Because I feel like just about every plot has at least a moment of being out of touch. The most glaring to me was the young girl who had her period- just none of that made sense. Between her going to an acting group when she's supposedly bleeding into her pants, to telling/trusting Karen when she had to at least not tell her friends, not tell her teacher, not tell the nurse at her school and not tell any other woman who worked or volunteered at the youth center (depending on when it started). Plus she was super calm, and even if she doesn't have a mom, someone talked enough to her for her to recognize what was happening, but she just sat there. We all talked about the far fetched plot of the homophobic parent just leaving her son. This week it was Grace's plot- why, why, why bring up Harvey Weinstein in the episode, especially after her plot with Karen last week, and have Grace try to pimp out her assistant? Why? Edited because I can't believe I forgot when Will was trying to bang the 23 year old, and he had a perfect coming out, with TWO parties. Like we get it, the writers think millenials have it easier- but really that experience is still not that common, let alone for people in their early twenties. The only person I think the writers had a reference to was Jazz, and she's 16, so they are still off by almost a decade on how lgbt is different now vs then.

It's like okay, well let's make sure to check off fun new gay culture we should include, let's throw in some politics, oh we have black people now, and look we're using Lyft instead of Uber/ HW/ etc- but let's just keep making the same plots and jokes. Are they just hiring a certain age group of writers? Or is this the producers having final rule over all jokes/say in anything?

Edited October 27, 2017 by william0102

[Bruinsfan]

3 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I actually like most of her wardrobe this season. The issue for me is the botox. My sister and one of her friends used to get it regularly, and the arched eyebrows are a dead giveaway. 

I think makeup is playing a part too, Debra's face has been very harsh and... hag-like on this show, yet when I saw her on Smash and at awards shows just a few years ago she looked luminous. Has she made enemies in the behind-the-scenes crew or something?

[Gothish520]

2 hours ago, mmecorday said:

My issue with the reboot is that although the characters have all advanced in age, they haven't matured at all.

I have no problem with that. They were all full-grown adults during the original run, certainly by the end. How much more maturing do people have to do between 35 and 50? I'm over 50 and I'm not much different than I was 11 years ago. I'm married now and have a house, but personality-wise I'm pretty much the same. 

5 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Megan Mullally is aging well and her body is fantastic. Debra Messing not as much. Too much big red hair, maybe? 

I've always loved the big red hair, but I miss the curls/waves. Plus again, the botox is obvious, and her body is different. All of this is not necessarily bad, but she just hasn't tapped into Grace yet. I've seen flashes the previous two episodes, but this episode, not so much.

[Gothish520]

4 hours ago, AriAu said:

This was the least funny episode so far and with all the topical jokes, it will not hold up well on re-watch. Was the show this topical before.

I'm on season four of a rewatch, and yes, it's always been very topical. Lots of zingers and one-liners referencing current events, celebrities past and present, etc. 

3 hours ago, JayD83 said:

Debra Messing played "Grace" better on her other NBC show "The Mysteries of Laura" than she does on this revival.  She's like, really bad.  I wonder what happened? 

I'm not sure. I'm loving this reboot and think the writing has been sharp and funny (and often touching) for the most part. The only sticking point for me so far has been Debra Messing's trouble tapping back into Grace. 

[jumper sage]

6 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

I feel like we're all friends here, so you guys would tell me if I'm crazy, right? Right?

Because early in the episode, we see Karen in the country club hotel room, and there is a funny portrait on the wall behind her: it's a Westie dressed in a preppy blazer. Which is well and fine, but at the 3:10 mark of the episode, I SWEAR THE WESTIE WINKS. Like so:

 

Have I gone insane, or is someone yellow wallpaper-ing me?

I did not notice that.  Thanks, it is a great catch.

I only liked Karen and Jack and their pals in the original so it is no surprise I still don't like Will or Grace.

I thought the whole pimping out Will for Grace to get a job to be very un PC and so cringe worthy.

I miss Rosario and am sorry she is not returning.

[useryikes]

2 hours ago, william0102 said:

I get there are new writers with the show now, but how old are they? Because I feel like just about every plot has at least a moment of being out of touch.

Yes, they seem to be all over the place plot-wise.  

How old are Will & Grace supposed to be anyway?

[Willowsmom]

 Leslie Jordan is a tiny God. By far the best thing about last night.

[iMonrey]

There was a really weird edit/cut in the scene where Grace is interviewing Max Greenfield in her office, did anyone else notice that? It was right before her assistant entered the room and it's almost like they cut right in the middle of someone's line.

[Scott]

5 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

IIt's unfortunate that Ramos is there in a recurring capacity, they really should have been more careful in casting that role (instead of, I assume, relying on the success of Hamilton).

At least to me, it felt from the very start that Ramos' being there was mainly about them saying "look how important we are, we can get Hamilton actors!" than anything else.

[Star Aristille]

When Beverley mentioned coming out to Crystal, I did a double-take, because I remembered the episode in which he'd told Grace and Karen that she'd died.  (I only remembered that because it was the only time Karen had actually been decent to him in giving him her condolences.)  And thankfully, Karen brought that up, as well.  The explanation for how she's alive in the reboot was weird, though.  A shovelful of dirt on her coffin revived her?  I thought that that's impossible after embalmment.

Nevertheless, about the only thing I did enjoy was Karen and Beverley's storyline.  Will and Grace's was okay, but nothing special.  And I've already forgotten most of Jack's.

[txhorns79]

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I have no problem with that. They were all full-grown adults during the original run, certainly by the end. How much more maturing do people have to do between 35 and 50? I'm over 50 and I'm not much different than I was 11 years ago. I'm married now and have a house, but personality-wise I'm pretty much the same. 

I think people continue to mature.  Something that may have been important to you at 35 might not even register at age 50.  I will say it's a little ridiculous to believe Will is going to throw away his career, which apparently has reached its pinnacle, for some undefined job working with Grace.   

Edited October 28, 2017 by txhorns79

[Caseysgirl]

The first time that I saw Jeff Sessions I immediately thought he looked just like Beverly Leslie and I still think so.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I think people continue to mature.  Something that may have been important to you at 35 might not even register at age 50.  I will say it's a little ridiculous to believe Will is going to throw away his career, which apparently has reached its pinnacle, for some undefined job working with Grace.   

But if he's not happy, I say go for it. Life's too short to be miserable, wasting time doing something you hate because it pays well. 

[chitowngirl]

With all the talk about Debra Messing taking a few episodes to "find" Grace again, isn't that her job and what she presumably gets a lot of money to do? If I payed a lot of money to see a play and the actor hadn't "found" the character yet, I'd be ticked off.

[backformore]

Jack: What's gay, beautiful, and just got rich for doing nothing? 

Will:  Jared Kushner?   

I loved this!  

 

Not crazy about the morphine jokes, though.  the nation has an opioid crisis, I cringe at any mention of pain meds as "fun" drugs. 

[TheGreenKnight]

Beverly Leslie continues to be gold for this show. The story about his wife coming back to life right as she was about to be buried made me belly laugh.

I also noticed the similarities in the W&G plots to past storylines. With Will, I think they were just trying to fast track him back to leaving the law firm since they retconned the last season out. I'm interested in the conflict/comedy that'll come out of them working together myself. And this means Will and Karen will also be working together... That's going to be hilarious.

[txhorns79]

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But if he's not happy, I say go for it. Life's too short to be miserable, wasting time doing something you hate because it pays well. 

I'll preface this by saying I know it's a tv show, so real world concerns do not necessarily apply.  However, this is what I'm talking about in terms of getting older and gaining more life experience.  I think someone Will's age has a lot more things to consider before throwing everything away.  The first thing being: What exactly would he be doing for Grace?  It's not like he's a designer, or she needs a full time lawyer.  If she really just needs someone to supervise what sounds like multiple ongoing projects, is that something he would really know how to do?  What happens when her projects end, if she doesn't have anything as big lined up?  Then you go into questions of pay, what happens if he hates the job with Grace and whether there are other, less dramatic options, he wants to explore before quitting his current position.  Just IMO, he's too old to be making such rash decisions regarding his career, particularly if the main driver is something as subjective and fluid as happiness, and I think someone his age would likely realize that.         

[seacliffsal]

I think Debra Messing is an ongoing weakness of the revived series (and I say this as a Debra Messing fan).  Still loving Karen-and her scenes with Beverly were everything for me.  I like that they are using Jack in a different setting and way.  However, I just cannot wrap my mind around any story line that has Will working for Grace (wasn't the previous rendition of this show based on Will being willing to financially support both Grace and Jack?).  I would hate anything that led to his losing his fantastic apartment!

[Miss Dee]

I laughed at "Jeff Sessions" (he really does! Some late-night talk show needs to take advantage of that) and "Latin@-American misunderstanding." I'm glad Jack is still at the school and hope to see more of the other teacher/coach (can't remember his name).

[Meedis]

On 10/26/2017 at 8:38 PM, mtlchick said:

Will and Grace working together?  What could POSSIBLY go wrong.

 

I'm starting to see the argument about Debra Messing not settling back into back into the role like the other 3 have.

 

On 10/27/2017 at 11:59 AM, JayD83 said:

Debra Messing played "Grace" better on her other NBC show "The Mysteries of Laura" than she does on this revival.  She's like, really bad.  I wonder what happened? 

 

16 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

With all the talk about Debra Messing taking a few episodes to "find" Grace again, isn't that her job and what she presumably gets a lot of money to do? If I payed a lot of money to see a play and the actor hadn't "found" the character yet, I'd be ticked off.

Debra was the one that held out initially from the revival.   So that could be playing into her not getting into her character.   Her heart may not be in it.   Then again it has been 11 years...maybe she's changed her characterization from back then... LOL.

[janie jones]

48 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I'm glad Jack is still at the school and hope to see more of the other teacher/coach (can't remember his name).

I was surprised he was still at the school, because I thought he was there temporarily in that one episode.  I wondered if I'd missed an episode.

[juliet73]

I'm not feeling this season at all.  I LOVED W & G years ago, but this revival is lacking.  First, Debra Messing is not working...at all.  Her stiff acting, too much make-up/botox, etc.  Jack was always a great character, but this time around, he seems not so "Jackish".  I can't put my finger on it...something is just off.  Karen and Will are pretty much the same - looks, character, everything :) . I don't understand the point of Grace's assistant?  I thought that was Karen's job.  This guy doesn't bring anything to the table.  I feel like he's only on the show because he is a producer's son or something (like an Aaron/Tori Spelling thing).   I don't want to see Will and Grace working together.  

[Snow Apple]

3 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I'm not feeling this season at all.  I LOVED W & G years ago, but this revival is lacking.  First, Debra Messing is not working...at all.  Her stiff acting, too much make-up/botox, etc.  Jack was always a great character, but this time around, he seems not so "Jackish".  I can't put my finger on it...something is just off.  Karen and Will are pretty much the same - looks, character, everything :) . I don't understand the point of Grace's assistant?  I thought that was Karen's job.  This guy doesn't bring anything to the table.  I feel like he's only on the show because he is a producer's son or something (like an Aaron/Tori Spelling thing).   I don't want to see Will and Grace working together.  

I think the guy is an apprentice and not an assistant? If that's indeed the case, he's learning the design business from Grace.

But I agree there's no point to his character so far.