S02.E06: The 20's

[Racj82]

13 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

My parent's never dressed up in costumes when they took us Trick-or-Treating.  With working jobs, getting costumes, transporting us,.......they didn't have a couple of hours to dress up themselves.  Maybe, it's traditional in their community.  The other parents weren't in costume, though, right?  I guess Rebecca and Jack were just too cool! 

Some people like to dress up for Halloween. Even if they are tired. Parent too.

[movingtargetgal]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

Omg, what’s wrong with Smarties! I love them.

There is nothing "wrong" with Smarties it is just that Snickers and other chocolate bars are so much better.  I have never once craved Smarties but Snickers...well that is a whole new ballgame.  My mother always gave out Smarties because she knew that she and my dad would not eat them before Halloween.  (That is why I always buy them to give out.)  Smarties were our every day candy.  When we played hospital, we used Smarties as "pills".   To sum it up Smarties are a great every day candy but Snickers and other chocolate were real TREATS.

[abbey]

11 hours ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

The ambulance couldn't get there because of trick or treaters?  Really? 

I would have been skeptical also but then I went to a friend's house last night.  There were cars parked on both sides of her somewhat narrow street.  Kids and adults rambling all over the street and just general chaos.  I was able to make it to her house but only with difficulty and all of this went on for several hours.  An ambulance would have been , at the very least, delayed 

[Conotocarious]

Just now, movingtargetgal said:

There is nothing "wrong" with Smarties it is just that Snickers and other chocolate bars are so much better.  I have never once craved Smarties but Snickers...well that is a whole new ballgame.  My mother always gave out Smarties because she knew that she and my dad would not eat them before Halloween.  (That is why I always buy them to give out.)  Smarties were our every day candy.  When we played hospital, we used Smarties as "pills".   To sum it up Smarties are a great every day candy but Snickers and other chocolate were real TREATS.

I crave the sweet tartness of smarties. I absolutely loved the orange ones. 

Never ever ever was I disappointed to find smarties in my Halloween bin. Same with my kids. Perhaps it genetic. 

Twizzlers, tootsie rolls or Laffy Taffy though. GTFO with that stuff.

[Lovecat]

12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

When Kate's crush suggested they get out of the bar, I thought he didn't want to be seen with her because she's overweight, not that he would turn out to be married.

Oh, totes.  In fact, I was so convinced that was the case I made a little "urrrrwhaaa?" noise when she confronted him about being married.  I did not see that coming.

8 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

As for Kate, can one interpret her action of sleeping with a man she already suspected was married as that of a woman desperate enough to have sex with someone, anyone, who found her sufficiently attractive?

One would actually need to invest in a helmet to protect oneself from the anvils falling from the sky.  That was not at all subtle :). Even if it had gone the other way (she was good enough for dude to bang, but not to have a drink with in public), it wouldn't have said much for her level of self-esteem at that point in her life.

9 hours ago, Cardie said:

Randall did appreciate Mr. Singh's advice and the naming after the type of fan he recommended was, I think, his way of naming the girls after him, if not literally. It parallels the triplets being named for Dr. K.

Oh, derp.  I never put those pieces together.  ::head smack::

12 hours ago, Katy M said:

Oh, just a little thing. I'm only a few years older than the triplets, and found it odd that at 10 years old they were trick or treating with their parents.  We just went with groups of kids from the neighborhood.  If you were over 7 and had a parent with you, you'd be ostracized, LOL.

2 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

It might be a neighborhood thing - less safe or higher traffic areas - we did TOT alone at that age but we were not allowed to go more than two blocks down the street alone (up the street was fine just not down) because down there the road connected to a major four lane road.  That said though the Pearson's neighborhood didn't look all that trafficky or unsafe that they needed to be watched the whole night.

My theory is that parents who trick-or-treat with their kids come in two varieties:  1) Safety-Conscious; and 2) Trying to be Cool.  The former carries a flashlight and first aid kit; the latter wears a costume.  Back in my day (mid-70's), we went out in our, uh, "transitional" neighborhood (not the projects, but not the nicest area of town, either) with at least one mom, usually two, who counted noses every once in a while to make sure they hadn't lost anyone.  No costumes, all business :). I stopped trick-or-treating in middle school, I think (so between ages 10 and 12), and I can't recall us ever being allowed out without a parent, even in a group of other kids.  Jack and Rebecca seem like Trying to be Cool parents, aka the precursor to modern helicopter parents.  I handed out candy this year, and I have to say that the vast majority of the kids were with parents.  It was really only the teenagers that were out unsupervised, roaming in packs :)

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Wait, so first, Randall and Beth's house is only a three bedroom place and now they don't have AC?  In what seems like a newish home in a pricy area?  It may be NJ, but goodness, summers there can be HOTTTTTTT!!!

ETA: I guess Miguel and Rebecca were FB friends, but not really talking to each other/liking each others' posts until Tess was born.  But were people their age REALLY on FB back then?  Wasn't it mostly an under 35 thing in 2008?

Hey Now #1:  Ceiling fans and AC are not mutually exclusive!  A fan is nice if it's warmish, but not hot enough for the AC, and also if (like me) you live in an old house where it's always 10* warmer in the third-floor bedroom than the rest of the house, even with the AC.  A lot of people like the noise of fans to sleep, too.  In the context of the show, Randall explained that he wanted a fan in the nursery because he had read that it would help prevent crib death.

Hey Now #2:  I was 38 in 2008, and got on FB in August of that year.  I remember being at a friend's house setting it up while I watched Michael Phelps win one of his 40 million gold medals :) My quibble was that I thought we were seeing her make her first post, and suddenly Miguel's note popped up.  What was he doing, just sitting there waiting for her to appear?  

 

This was the first episode this year that really made me bawl.  My parents have both been gone for many years, and I just got married for the first time 2 months ago.  As beautiful as the day was, I REALLY missed having them there, so I could totally relate to Rebecca's feelings surrounding the birth of her first grandchild.  The good times will always be tinged with a hint of sorrow when you've lost someone you love.

[MelGoLightly]

12 hours ago, debraran said:

the twins didn't' know they were triplets?  Very odd.

This actually answered a question for me that I've had throughout the show. I have always thought it strange that Rebecca keeps referring to them as the twins and the three of them as the kids when talking to her mother, who keeps asking for pictures of 'just the twins'. What an odd thing to make them accept - that they had twins and just decided to take home an extra baby who was abandoned that day. 

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

As for Tess being named after a fan, my friend and her husband wanted their young son to help name the new baby and he wanted to use “window”. So they looked at their Anderson windows and went with the name Anderson.

Lol. It's Andersen.

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, MelGoLightly said:

This actually answered a question for me that I've had throughout the show. I have always thought it strange that Rebecca keeps referring to them as the twins and the three of them as the kids when talking to her mother, who keeps asking for pictures of 'just the twins'. What an odd thing to make them accept - that they had twins and just decided to take home an extra baby who was abandoned that day. 

Also, is Randall the only one who knows at this point, then? Because there's a big deal about Randall not knowing about Kyle, but how about Kevin and Kate? 

[marceline]

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I thought it was OOC for Kevin to be such an asshole as to try to screw his friend out of a role. Until now he'd been portrayed as a bit self-involved but not malicious.

I didn't think it was OOC at all. Kevin has always had an insecure streak that makes him act out in bad ways. We've seen it over and over. Add in the fact that he was in his 20s and hadn't had an audition in a year and I could easily see how his desperation made him, once again, betray someone he cares about. Kevin's worst behavior is almost always triggered by feelings of envy or insecurity.  It's as much a part of him as Randall's perfectionism and Kate's weight issue. It's the thing that's always there waiting to rear its ugly head.

Edited November 1, 2017 by marceline

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, marceline said:

We've seen it over and over. Add in the fact that he was in his 20s and hadn't had an audition in a year and I could easily see how his desperation made him, once again, betray someone he cares about. Kevin's worst behavior is almost always triggered by feelings of envy or insecurity. 

You reminded me of the epiphany I had last night.  Kevin's roommate was his new Randall.  He had met this guy, given him advice, and then the guy comes along and gets more attention than him, is better than him, when Kevin feels like he's the one who deserves all that.

[General Days]

11 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

Kevin.  I still don’t care one bit about his story.  His attempt to steal his roommates’s part was classic Kevin.  No surprises there at all.  

[...]

Rebecca.  The makeup and costuming teams continue to do a really subpar job with her looks as her age changes through various decades.  The scene with 2008-era pregnant Beth was just plain confusing.  She looked like her present-day early-30’s self, but without makeup.  This show is ambitious with the ever-changing timeline, so I’m willing to overlook it. 

The best part of this episode was the much-needed break from Toby and his jackassery.  His performances last week, sweeping everything off the desk to have sex with Kate and his “We’re pregnant!” dance routine in the restaurant, brought me to my absolute Toby limit.  I think I’ve reached it every week, but each episode pushes me a bit farther.

How was Kevin's attempt to steal his friend's role "classic Kevin" to you? I'm trying to think of other ways he's been like that, but I can't. Because the episode was called, "The 20s" it was showing the different places people the very same age can be at, during their 20s. Some are already "grownups" like Randall. Some know what they want, like Kevin does, but don't know how to get it. And some, like Kate, are still stuck. 

As for Mandy Moore's aging makeup, the thing that continues to assault my eyes is the wig they put on her in the present day scenes. Her wig when Tess was born was slightly less awful. There's only so much they can do with her face, though. It's not like they can suck out the subcutaneous fat in her still-youthful cheeks. I'd rather look at the makeup the way they've done it, than at overdone silicone wrinkles that a lot of TV and films curse their actors with.

I think Toby is largely a victim of writers' and directors' hubris. They know they want him to be this big guy, with big love, and big enthusiasm, and big gestures, but they forget we're not watching a play, but the small screen. I like the character despite these moments. The restaurant/pregnancy announcement last week was way too far for me.

10 hours ago, jmonique said:

I get not liking Kevin, but I'm still kind of surprised by how much the character regularly gets screwed in regards to storylines. Randall's practically walking on water, and Kevin's been the odd man out since birth. Tonight's flashback to Kevin at 28 was like watching A Douche Bag Tries to Make it in Hollywood. But given everything, I can see how he got to that point.

I'm just hoping after the current addiction storyline, they can give Kevin something actually good for once.

I hope so, too. I didn't expect much from Justin Hartley, but I think (when he gets good material) he holds his own along with the rest of this talented cast.

10 hours ago, Bama said:

And Milo moonwalking and dressed as Sonny Bono was everything I didn't know I needed in my life.

I still can't moonwalk, and I'm a child of the 80s, so I was even a little envious that Milo could also do that. He really was everything as Sonny Bono, too.

 

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Who was handing out candy at the Pearson's?

I don't know, but I bet it wasn't Rebecca's mom

 

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree with those observations of things being TOO much.  Plus, there are consistent things that I just CAN'T buy into.  One of the most BIZARRE things that I can't buy is how Jack went WAY overboard after Kate told him how the little boy held her hand.  Wouldn't a "That's nice. I'm glad you had fun. Now, let's find your brother and go home."  But, no, Jack has to give her this over the top WORSHIP speech.  It's so unauthentic to me and CREEPY.  Instead of endearing me, it's offending me. 

I also didn't buy the speech that Rebecca gave Randall in the hospital and the one she gave Tess when she was born.  Oh, and the super fast labor and delivery with a first time mom? And the OVER SHARING of information by Randall with the Home Depot clerk?   Please. Are the writers now trying to convince us that Randall is very mentally disturbed?

I didn't care one way or the other about Kevin and Kate's twenty something year stories. So, Kevin had not been a big star for that long when he threw it all away and moved to NY.  He's not a very grateful person, imo. 

Why is it creepy to you? I don't understand.

Granted, I also didn't see "worship" there, so much as a parent trying to build up a child he knows has issues with her appearance. Whether or not he did it in a way that would help her is beside my point. I'm not a child development expert, so I won't pretend to know. But from my perspective as a parent, Jack came home, realized his child now had this need to feel pretty and then tried, in the way he knew how, to let her know how wonderful he thinks she is.

I didn't like that the show went with the emergency home delivery. To me, it's the same problem I had with Toby's restaurant pregnancy announcement and his clearing the desk scene. I wish the writers would scale it back some, because I think it's the small, human, common elements that make this show special. That said, I can see how they needed to give Randall a way back from fragile flower to imperfect competency.

 

43 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't think he intended to steal his friend's role when he started talking to the guy, but he absolutely went that direction, as he did end up outright stating that he wanted to read for the role that was already given to his friend. I am a Kevin fan, so I can understand and sympathize with his actions. However, I also see that this was one of Kevin's worst moments on the show. This was wrong of him, period. He can make a mistake, be remorseful, and still be a giant dick at the same time, which is where I am with Kevin for this time period. I like 2017 Kevin. 2008 Kevin, however? I would have probably been annoyed at him. 

I agree with this. I also feel like, good people have their douchey moments and douchey people have their good moments. I think what Kevin ended up doing was horrible. I also think he knew it, whereas a real douche would have thought what he did was just fine. 

[ChromaKelly]

I bought Randall's oversharing to the employee, even if it was being all Magical POC. Sometimes people overshare to virtual strangers because they can't talk to anyone close to them and it just comes out. It just happened to me recently, I was the share-ee, although I really didn't have anything magical to say to the share-er. 
At this point I wish the show had just cast Sally Field as Older Rebecca. The makeup is horrible and seeing Mandy Moore in bad makeup trying to play the mom of actors her own age/slightly older is really stupid.

[SunnyBeBe]

Oh, I like the idea of casting Sally Field.  I love her.  I'm not sure if it would translate, but, I don't care.  Sally is a treat.  And, the older versions of Rebecca aren't distracting to me.  I suppose that so many other things about the script bother me, that  her appearance is the least of my problems.  lol

Ref. the attention that Jack pays to boosting Kate's self worth.  I get how that would work in a normal way. I just don't see Jack's approach as normal. It's WAY over the top to me.  

Edited November 1, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[monakane]

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

He was already "rigid" because, as a 10-year-old, he turned trick or treating into a highly optimized candy-generating algorithm.

I wish I had a friend like Randall when I was a trick-or-treating 10 year old.  My friends and I were always trying to "optimize" our candy.

[3 is enough]

I noticed confirmation of the theory that Jack's death caused Kate to have a substantial weight gain, since she spends time sitting in a parked car outside the old home site eating junk food. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I'm half and half on this episode. There were some things I liked and a lot I hated. I didn't like Randall's behavior, especially with Garuda Singh (hope I have that right). Poor guy was working the night shift on Halloween and he's got 5 kids at home. He was beyond polite to listen to Randall's problems. Randall's going on about how he's good at work but if he's not, it's "just money." Maybe don't say that to someone working in the service industry. He probably hasn't gotten to the point where it's "just money." And then he makes it racist with the comment about Eastern wisdom. And he's even got a perfect American accent. Just because he comes from a different background and different religion than you, Randall doesn't make him some guru. Ugh. Poor guy, I felt for him. I also felt for Beth. She's getting induced the next day and her husband is obsessed with a ceiling fan. She just wants to enjoy her last night child-free and hand out some candy and her husband won't even stick around for it. If I were her, I'd play the pregnancy and giving birth tomorrow card so fast with Randall acting the way he was. Dude, your wife is giving birth to your child tomorrow so maybe humor her a little bit? She shouldn't be humoring you with the ceiling fan right now. She has a lot on her shoulders so think about her instead of yourself for two seconds. I'm glad she at least had Rebecca to talk to.

I also disliked Rebecca's speeches to Tess and Randall. Maybe if they had been cut in half it would have had a better impact. They weren't horrible, I think just too long, too indulgent. There was too much background music playing too loud as well, especially at the end of the episode. That should be toned down a bit. I liked the Sonny and Cher but there were too many moments with the swell of music to try and make us feel sentimental. Also, we never need another episode of TV where someone gives birth outside of the hospital because they are trapped somewhere and the baby is coming too fast. And does Rebecca not drive? Why couldn't she have driven Beth to the hospital and Randall meet them there? Are you telling me Beth and Randall didn't have two cars? Plus, the whole scene was too easy and clean. All Rebecca had to do was grab some towels and Randall give Beth a speech about how they got this and next thing you know Beth is upstairs by herself breastfeeding.

I had to laugh when Kate's guy asked Kate why she slept with him. He'd be better off asking himself that same question. Kate's not married. She probably had sex because she wanted to have sex, same as you. Except you are married, so why did you break your vows and risk ruining your marriage? Think about that rather than why a woman wanted to have sex as if it is some unheard of thing. I guess we did get some insight into Kate though when she said that she was tired of waiting for everything to be "right." It sounds like she thinks she was setting her standards are too high, probably because Jack indulged her too much and that's what she now expects from relationships. I think she went the opposite direction and was setting a "low bar," as Kevin said.

I loved when Rebecca told Randall that she experienced one of the happiest moments of her life and that with Jack gone, now every happy moment has a little sad in it. That was a beautiful moment. I liked Kevin paying Billy to hold Kate's hand. That was wrong, obviously, but I think it's remarkable that a 10 year old would have that much empathy for his sister and want to make her happy. Too bad he can't apply that a little to Randall.

I liked Beth realizing that Rebecca was lonely and agreeing to help set her up on FB. Even though Beth had a lot going on with Randall's breakdown and the baby, she was able to take a step back from herself and really see Rebecca. Take note, Randall. 

I liked Kevin moving forward in his life and joining the Acting Troupe or whatever it was. It looks like where he got started in comedy and what lead to The Manny. I'm not sure I like Kate moving to be with Kevin. It might have been better if she chose to do something on her own. But at least it got her away from sitting in the car outside the burnt down house.

[SunnyBeBe]

So, please help me with this.  Kate was still in college? (taking classes)  Kevin was working odd jobs, doing hair, not in school, and Randall was already in his career with a big house.  And they are the same age.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree with those observations of things being TOO much.  Plus, there are consistent things that I just CAN'T buy into.  One of the most BIZARRE things that I can't buy is how Jack went WAY overboard after Kate told him how the little boy held her hand.  Wouldn't a "That's nice. I'm glad you had fun. Now, let's find your brother and go home."  But, no, Jack has to give her this over the top WORSHIP speech.  It's so unauthentic to me and CREEPY.  Instead of endearing me, it's offending me. 

I also didn't buy the speech that Rebecca gave Randall in the hospital and the one she gave Tess when she was born.  Oh, and the super fast labor and delivery with a first time mom? And the OVER SHARING of information by Randall with the Home Depot clerk?   Please. Are the writers now trying to convince us that Randall is very mentally disturbed?

I didn't care one way or the other about Kevin and Kate's twenty something year stories. So, Kevin had not been a big star for that long when he threw it all away and moved to NY.  He's not a very grateful person, imo. 

I know it's a trope, and I understand why people react badly to speedy deliveries, but it is always fun for me, because my first was born in under an hour. My second was even quicker.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 minute ago, Clanstarling said:

I know it's a trope, and I understand why people react badly to speedy deliveries, but it is always fun for me, because my first was born in under an hour. My second was even quicker.

WHOA, then you have a very different perspective on it.  I just think it's an easy thing to throw into a tv script though.  To me it was contrived, but, it's not the worst thing they've done.  lol

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, please help me with this.  Kate was still in college? (taking classes)  Kevin was working odd jobs, doing hair, not in school, and Randall was already in his career with a big house.  And they are the same age.

Kate was taking night classes, so obviously she either didn't go to college or simply didn't finish for whatever reason (most likely her grief over Jack's death that she never fully dealt with)

Kevin may or may not have gone to college, definitely didn't finish, and threw all of his time and energy into auditioning for roles, which meant he had to take those odd jobs. 

Randall's always been shown to be the Pearson most dedicated to sticking onto a viable path. It makes sense for him to already be successful in a good paying job at 28. 

There's still a missing ten years from their ages at 18-28 that we don't know about. 

[ShadowFacts]

57 minutes ago, abbey said:

I would have been skeptical also but then I went to a friend's house last night.  There were cars parked on both sides of her somewhat narrow street.  Kids and adults rambling all over the street and just general chaos.  I was able to make it to her house but only with difficulty and all of this went on for several hours.  An ambulance would have been , at the very least, delayed 

But an ambulance is an ambulance, cars and people make way.  They could have just said the ambulance is on the way and left it at that.

 

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, please help me with this.  Kate was still in college? (taking classes)  Kevin was working odd jobs, doing hair, not in school, and Randall was already in his career with a big house.  And they are the same age.

Yeah, I take it that Kate is frozen, not making forward progress because of grief, is filling the void with food and attempts at relationships.  She wasn't just after sex, she told Kevin she had a new guy as if that could be a potential boyfriend but alas, married.  Kevin's acting ambitions and living on other jobs are the predictable show-biz stuff that puts me to sleep.  Randall is a professional success with a solid partner, but he's coming apart.  Drama.  Anvil-icious to me.

[roughing it]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Heh, I love little organized Randall, mapping out which houses give out the best candy. I'm all for maximizing your candy time. Don't waste time at the houses that give out pennies and Smarties.

I thought that Randall would get the good full size candy bars early in the night, and when Kevin and Kate got to that same house(s) after the haunted house, they would be all out.  So that they should have followed Randall's plan after all.

[ally862]

11 hours ago, jmonique said:

I get not liking Kevin, but I'm still kind of surprised by how much the character regularly gets screwed in regards to storylines. Randall's practically walking on water, and Kevin's been the odd man out since birth. Tonight's flashback to Kevin at 28 was like watching A Douche Bag Tries to Make it in Hollywood. But given everything, I can see how he got to that point.

I'm just hoping after the current addiction storyline, they can give Kevin something actually good for once.

Yeah, when Jack and Rebecca were talking about which kids they favored my heart broke for Kevin.  He was never anyone'sfavorite and I think that's where his issues as an adult.  He kind of reminds me of my mom because she was the fifth of seven children and has a tendency to really seek out attention and approval from people. Kind of drives me nuts haha. I wonder if him trying to steal the role from his roommate was just out of desperation. I could see him thinking that by getting a role will finally impress people.  And like someone else said, he seems to loath himself doing it. I wonder if he thought that if his friend was good enough for the role he could be to. Still not saying it's okay, but I think the whole thing come from some deep-rooted issues.

[General Days]

32 minutes ago, Lovecat said:

Hey Now #2:  I was 38 in 2008, and got on FB in August of that year.  I remember being at a friend's house setting it up while I watched Michael Phelps win one of his 40 million gold medals :) My quibble was that I thought we were seeing her make her first post, and suddenly Miguel's note popped up.  What was he doing, just sitting there waiting for her to appear?  

 

This was the first episode this year that really made me bawl.  My parents have both been gone for many years, and I just got married for the first time 2 months ago.  As beautiful as the day was, I REALLY missed having them there, so I could totally relate to Rebecca's feelings surrounding the birth of her first grandchild.  The good times will always be tinged with a hint of sorrow when you've lost someone you love.

Hey Now #3: Rebecca said her friends were telling her to get on Facebook. When you first register, Facebook asks you if you want it to search for your email contacts. Rebecca would have added her friends, and she and Miguel would likely have had some friends in common. He saw that she was on Facebook (and I think probably always had a crush on/feelings for her), and added her right away. 
 

Congrats on your marriage! I'm sorry your parents couldn't be there. You're so right about the bittersweetness of happy moments. 

2 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

I bought Randall's oversharing to the employee, even if it was being all Magical POC. Sometimes people overshare to virtual strangers because they can't talk to anyone close to them and it just comes out. It just happened to me recently, I was the share-ee, although I really didn't have anything magical to say to the share-er. 
At this point I wish the show had just cast Sally Field as Older Rebecca. The makeup is horrible and seeing Mandy Moore in bad makeup trying to play the mom of actors her own age/slightly older is really stupid.

I don't blame the show for the Magical POC trope, because they intentionally made Randall be that way, instead of writing some ignorant scene where someone from another culture has some wisdom because of his otherness. They didn't set up the hardware store man to be all-knowing. They had Randall admit, part-way through his blurt, that he let that trope infect his feelings. And then the man didn't offer some esoteric, "exotic" wisdom. He offered his experience as a father of five.

Like you, I was fine with Randall's oversharing. When you're feeling that uptight and your whole family is already walking on eggshells around you, sometimes you've just gotta let go, to someone. A stranger might even be better because you never have to see them, again. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm trying to figure Kevin's motivation.  I take it that he's not a real acting lover. You know those who love it for the craft.  They have it in their bones and are involved in plays as children, teens and know that they can't do much else with their life. It's who they are.   Kevin is more like this is a backup plan or something to make a lot of money or be famous. He's also a malcontent.  There's not much that will keep them happy.  No matter what, they will move on. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Conotocarious said:

 

Twizzlers, tootsie rolls or Laffy Taffy though. GTFO with that stuff.

Now, Tootsie rolls, I can go for. Though real chocolate is my preference and downfall. Agree on all the others.

[Katy M]

32 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

There's still a missing ten years from their ages at 18-28 that we don't know about. 

If I had to guess, I would say that RAndall took the traditional route, went to college, got a master's degree probably, got his job, at some point in time married Beth

Kevin married Sophie right out of high school.  She went to nursing school while he worked some low level job.  When she finished school, he went out to CA to try to become an actor, and  got jobs washing hair, wating tables and whatnot, at some point had an affair, confessed it to Sophie, they got divorced, he was still floundering around, going to auditions or not.

Kate's harder to figure out.  I imagine she didn't know what she wanted to do, so like Kevin took some odd jobs, then decided to take some classes, maybe settled on a career path, maybe not.

[roughing it]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

As for Mandy Moore's aging makeup, the thing that continues to assault my eyes is the wig they put on her in the present day scenes

Wigs are used constantly in TV/movie productions, and they are so well done that you don't even notice them.  Why can't they use a good wigmaster (or whatever they're called)?

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

You reminded me of the epiphany I had last night.  Kevin's roommate was his new Randall.  He had met this guy, given him advice, and then the guy comes along and gets more attention than him, is better than him, when Kevin feels like he's the one who deserves all that.

 

4 hours ago, deaja said:

I didn't really enjoy this episode. It wasn't awful, but it felt like mostly filler.  Not enough Jack and no present day Pearsons.  Not to mention Kate and Kevin were both awful in their 2008 incarnations.  Sleeping with a man you strongly suspect is married, having those bangs - do better, Kate.  And Kevin letting his desperation do that to him.  It was sweet that 10 year old Kevin gave away his candy to get Kate what she wanted - acceptance.  It they are setting up another Jack/Kevin parallel. Neither of them can see Kate disappointed.  So we've had Miguel say how alike Kevin and Jack are, we've seen they both struggle with addiction, etc.

Young Randall was so over the top.  

Kevin's room mate not only invited Kevin to an insider party, he actually paid Kevin's share of the rent in the previous month and Kevin has the nerve to talk about how he is much more handsome then Zeke.  I am glad that director put him in his place.  That said Justin Hartley is almost impossible for me to dislike.

Jack really gives Kate everything she wants and he constantly undermines Rebecca in front of her.  It's okay...mommy does not care that she spent hours sewing your costume for nothing, because of your last minute change of heart.

I appreciate that Randall was Bad Michael Jackson instead of Thriller Michael Jackson.

Did anyone think it was bizarre the the way they had Kate lying in bed so still with the sheet over her?  I do not know if she one in shock from what she did or if the actress just did not feel comfortable moving around.

[Jillybean]

2 hours ago, Lovecat said:

Hey Now #1:  Ceiling fans and AC are not mutually exclusive!  A fan is nice if it's warmish, but not hot enough for the AC, and also if (like me) you live in an old house where it's always 10* warmer in the third-floor bedroom than the rest of the house, even with the AC.  A lot of people like the noise of fans to sleep, too.  In the context of the show, Randall explained that he wanted a fan in the nursery because he had read that it would help prevent crib death.

Hey Now #2:  I was 38 in 2008, and got on FB in August of that year.  I remember being at a friend's house setting it up while I watched Michael Phelps win one of his 40 million gold medals :) My quibble was that I thought we were seeing her make her first post, and suddenly Miguel's note popped up.  What was he doing, just sitting there waiting for her to appear?  

I've always had AC and ceiling fans. Can't live without either.  And I also got on FB around August 2008 at the ripe old age of 38. 

[ChromaKelly]

37 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Wigs are used constantly in TV/movie productions, and they are so well done that you don't even notice them.  Why can't they use a good wigmaster (or whatever they're called)?

Game of Thrones has a budget of like 500 million dollars and they still have some bad wigs. Maybe it's harder than we think? IDK but the Old Rebecca wig is definitely one of the Top Ten Bad Wigs.

[PRgal]

Okay, fine.  I get it.  People over a certain age also went on FB in 2008. And I have to admit that I have Snapchat, even though it's mostly for a younger demographic (and I don't really "get" it).  :S  

Re: Jack and Rebecca dressing up - parents in my 'hood didn't dress up either - at least not to escort their kids trick or treating.  Some parents who stayed in, however, DID dress up.  I recall a woman who went waaaayyy OTT with her house (back in the day when people just did Jack O'Lanterns and a little with fake spiderwebs), complete with lighting and a witch's costume.  Her make-up was REALLY GOOD, too.  

[Bliss]

Re Rebecca in her "old" mode (with the bad wig)... I'd love to see her get a makeover... get a really good cut and go 'natural' (a silvery gray) - a short, semi-funky look. JMO. I think Mandy could pull that off and it would also make her less drab. At the same time, they could reduce Miguel's spray tanning sessions!

[Lady Calypso]

I was born in '93 and although my parents didn't often dress up fully when going trick-or-treating with us, they would dress up most years to some extent, especially the parent who stayed home to hand out candy, or if they were going out to a Halloween party. Also, there was always at least one adult to go supervise us when going trick-or-treating until we were about 12, and that was by the mid 2000s, so I think it all depends on the parent. 

And Jack is definitely the type to happily dress up, and Rebecca seems like she'd go along with it. 

[Cardie]

6 hours ago, deaja said:

they are setting up another Jack/Kevin parallel

Ironically, Kevin shares a lot with Rebecca, both attractive performers who seem always to step on their own careers.

[Aloeonatable]

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I was over 35 in 2008 and I was on FB (since 2007), as were most of my friends. So how old was Rebecca supposed to be in 2007? And she only got on FB after Tessa was born, so I think that message from Miguel was the first communication they had.

I have never been on Facebook, but I did get talked into getting a smart phone to receive and share pictures of my grandchildren. 

 

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My parent's never dressed up in costumes when they took us Trick-or-Treating.  With working jobs, getting costumes, transporting us,.......they didn't have a couple of hours to dress up themselves.  Maybe, it's traditional in their community.  The other parents weren't in costume, though, right?  I guess Rebecca and Jack were just too cool! 

I always use to dress up for Halloween but only to give out the candy. My husband took the children trick-or-tweeting and I only remember one time when he dressed up. Our children grew up in the 70s/80s, and there was always a parent with a group of children even when the children were 10-12. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Aloeonatable said:

took the children trick-or-tweeting

No Twitter back then... must be a typo, unless your town gave out chicks or something.  Heh.

[Jodithgrace]

Parents always dress up for Halloween..on television! And their houses are always decorated like a Martha Stewart magazine. It's just the way things are. I guess it gives the writers and the creative team more to work with. 

[Violetgoblin6]

14 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I had cheetos one year in with the other candy and was shocked that the cheetos were the first to go.   Kids were stoked!  And I don't give out full size bars but it is the good chocolate and I let kids take two or three so there were options.

Full confession.  I like fun sized halloween candy because instead of getting a snickers bar you can get a little snickers and a little kit kat or whatever.   

I understand. We get a ton of kids in our development and bought Pirate Bootie, in addition to 6 bags of candy. The Pirate Bootie definitely went first. I was very surprised. 

 

14 hours ago, PRgal said:

Wait, so first, Randall and Beth's house is only a three bedroom place and now they don't have AC?  In what seems like a newish home in a pricy area?  It may be NJ, but goodness, summers there can be HOTTTTTTT!!!

As for full-sized candy:  Sorry, like @bybrandy, I like them "fun sized."  Growing up, it was the only time I was able to eat the entire thing at one time.  Also, I don't know about the US, but I've noticed in Canada, anyway, Halloween/fun-sized candies have shrunk since *I* was a trick-or-treater.  

ETA: I guess Miguel and Rebecca were FB friends, but not really talking to each other/liking each others' posts until Tess was born.  But were people their age REALLY on FB back then?  Wasn't it mostly an under 35 thing in 2008?

I think, if I can remember correctly, Beth helped Rebecca set up Facebook when she came to NJ for the birth. I remember since 2008, August, was when I got Facebook (no longer have it, Thank God!) And yes PR girl, I was born in 1974 and fun size candy was definitely bigger! In fact some of the candy we gave out were tiny squares (Snickers, Milkyways), but we always say they can have more than one piece of candy. 

 

13 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I was over 35 in 2008 and I was on FB (since 2007), as were most of my friends. So how old was Rebecca supposed to be in 2007? And she only got on FB after Tessa was born, so I think that message from Miguel was the first communication they had.

Rebecca, being born in February 1950, would be 58 in 2008. My own parents are exactly a year older than Rebecca and Jack (1943 and 1949). They got started earlier having kids. I'm 6 years older than the Big 3 and I have only one siblings who is younger, born in 1982. 

[BlancheDevoreaux]

17 hours ago, betha said:

Yes agree. I wanted to hear more too. I did think it was odd to hear Kevin speak so openly about Jack's death when just last week they made a huge deal about how he never talks about it. 

 

Also agree with this. Come to think of it, Kevin's characterization has been all over the place lately. I did think they meant to show that extreme circumstances had him acting out of character and that he was mad at himself for doing it though.

 

Yeah I like this theory better than my one above that maybe they dated for a year. I bet you're right- he was in love with her (because he'd always had a thing for her) and was hanging around too much and the kids didn't like it. 

 

15 hours ago, jmonique said:

I get not liking Kevin, but I'm still kind of surprised by how much the character regularly gets screwed in regards to storylines. Randall's practically walking on water, and Kevin's been the odd man out since birth. Tonight's flashback to Kevin at 28 was like watching A Douche Bag Tries to Make it in Hollywood. But given everything, I can see how he got to that point.

I'm just hoping after the current addiction storyline, they can give Kevin something actually good for once.

I feel like they don't really know what to do with Kevin's character.  Randall is clearly supposed to be one that we all love.  He works hard and is a great family man. He is there for everyone and even wants to take on more.  His only fault appears to be caring so much to the point that he gets terrible anxiety if things don't go perfectly. Jack is also supposed to be absolutely loved, I think.  I'm not sure if we are supposed to like Kate or not, but I feel like with Kevin, it's clear that we are all supposed to think he is an ass.  Problem is, I don't.  I think that he got the short end of the stick all the time growing up with his mom fawning all over his brother and his father doing the same with his sister.  And, while I don't excuse or condone cheating, I can understand where it came from if he spent his entire childhood searching for love and attention from his parents and always feeling like his siblings got more of it. What he did to his roommate was horrible, but I agree with this post:

 

14 hours ago, Bama said:

And again, I'm going against the grain, but I totally didn't get the vibe that Kevin intended to try and steal his friend's role.  The conversation started with Kevin - awkwardly - trying to get some insight into why a part written for "A Kevin" went to "A Zeke".  Kevin is struggling and that's something he's never had to deal with.  He's trying to ask the director about more than just why he cast against his "type" - he's trying to ask if he can't even get roles that seem written for him then what's the point.  And then it just spirals into a cringey mess and he went low.  His desperation for validation became a dirty backstab and he knew it but just couldn't stop the words from tumbling out of his face.  And we could see it on his face that he knew he did something unforgivable.  I don't know, maybe I have a soft spot for the "middle child" type but that scene seemed so much more than just "Kevin is a huge dick" to me.

I don't think Kevin set out to try and steal the part.  I think Justin did a great job with this scene in his face showing one thing while his words said another.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I was born in '93 and although my parents didn't often dress up fully when going trick-or-treating with us, they would dress up most years to some extent, especially the parent who stayed home to hand out candy, or if they were going out to a Halloween party. Also, there was always at least one adult to go supervise us when going trick-or-treating until we were about 12, and that was by the mid 2000s, so I think it all depends on the parent. 

And Jack is definitely the type to happily dress up, and Rebecca seems like she'd go along with it. 

And your area.  Some parents started to freak out in the 90s and didn't let their kids go out on their own.  Or people stopped trick-or-treating in their own neighbourhoods because it wasn't well-lit enough.  The street I lived on in high school (mid-90sish) didn't have sidewalks and was relatively dark.  We got ZERO KIDS - everyone went about a block over instead (they got and still get over 100, with some families running out of candy before 7).  

 

To stick with the episode:  I don't know if they got the 90s make-up right for Kate.  I DO NOT remember ANYONE trying that look by 2008.  Maybe in 2002 or so when Baby One More Time Britney was still a thing.  And the "full sized candy" Randall was talking about?  That would be EXPENSIVE to get all of that for Halloween.  

[Georgia]

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Man, less than a minute into the episode and I was already yelling STFU, JACK! No, you don't get to waltz in after work and tell your daughter that she can change her costume at the last minute with a breezy, "Mom can handle that, right?" Unless your ass is going to stay up all night making that new costume, kindly shut the fuck up, Jack. And that's even before you get into the debate about Jack never saying no to Kate.

@ElectricBoogaloo, I blacked out with rage at that point. Rebecca is a saint for not instantly losing it. It shows that he doesn't value what Rebecca does for the family. Hand-sewing costumes isn't a minor thing (not to mention that the house always seems spotless, everyone is always neatly groomed, they sit down to meals she cooks,etc.). 

Kid Randall is playing too young. It was weird to me that he wouldn't be able to figure out that Kyle died. 10-year-olds know the euphemisms for death. T

[ShadowFacts]

7 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

I'm not sure if we are supposed to like Kate or not, but I feel like with Kevin, it's clear that we are all supposed to think he is an ass.  Problem is, I don't.  I think that he got the short end of the stick all the time growing up with his mom fawning all over his brother and his father doing the same with his sister.  And, while I don't excuse or condone cheating, I can understand where it came from if he spent his entire childhood searching for love and attention from his parents and always feeling like his siblings got more of it.

He was clearly the "middle" child inasmuch as each parent focused on another child, but he didn't get the short end of the stick all the time.  We just recently saw Jack pour attention on him when he had chicken pox, and we also saw a video of Jack over the top proud of his football star son.  I take pretty much of a dim view of him in his career; he doesn't know a good thing when he has it inasmuch as he bailed on his successful sitcom, then his Broadway play.  He's good at self-sabotage. 

[Miss Patterson]

6 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

But Kevin was only talking about it in reference to Kate, not to himself. 

I didn't like the "all-knowing" Hardware store manager "from the East," giving Randall the meaning of life. I'm sure Mr. Garuda did prefer being treated like a sage instead of a terrorist (by some ignorant customers) but it was all so heavy-handed and such a cliche. At least he had a sense of humor about it.

It must be tough when there are three children and only two parents.Jack had his favorite and Rebecca hers, and poor Keven was nobody's favorite. I think that 20's Kevin must have been pretty desperate for an acting job after a year of no auditions to try to steal his roommate's job. But that was definitely a low point.  

This show does manage to hit all of the cliches..baby born at home, random wise man delivering wisdom, popular boy being bribed to hold hands with overweight girl, but they do manage to do it in an entertaining way so I am still a fan (get it?)

I thought Diner Guy was embarrassed to see Kate at the bar with his friends because of her weight...I was almost relieved that he was merely married. 

One thing that confused me..Tessa was born on Halloween, right? The whole episode took place on two different Halloweens. I think they even said that the road was closed for trick or treaters, which is why the ambulance couldn't get through (worst excuse ever!) So why was Beth wearing a summer sundress? it was lovely, but not at all appropriate for the time of year in New Jersey. Yes, I was hot throughout both my pregnancies, especially the one in August, but I still wore seasonal clothing.  

I thought maybe it wasn't a dress but a nightgown. Beth knew she wasn't going out and it was probably very comfortable for her.  

I loved last night's episode. It had a little of everyone, even Miguel, who I like. I haven't understood why nobody seems to like him. He was a good friend to Jack, and the families were friends as well.  I guess we'll continue to learn more about how Rebecca and Miguel finally got together.  As far as Kate, I was really glad this guy was married rather than him being ashamed of Kate to his friends at the bar.   

I can't wait until next week. I wish I could binge watch the whole season right now!

[Drumpf1737]

16 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Kate sleeping with the married guy while suspecting that he's married didn't reflect well on her. 

It reflects even worse on the person who's actually married in the scenario.

Not my favorite episode.  Is it okay if I'm tired of seeing the "giving birth at home because there are no ambulances" trope in the 21st century. Also, are all husbands trained in child delivery? 

I suspect what we're seeing in the show that we as fans dislike is direction from the network.

[roughing it]

Whenever Mandy wears glasses, she always fidgets with them.

[himela]

I understand this is a sensitive matter but I didn't appreciate Rebecca saying to kid Randall that he was not "instead" of anything. That was a lie. Had Kyle not died, they would never have considered to adopt a baby.

What I also don't like with this story is, who decided to let this couple adopt this baby? I bet there were hundreds of couples waiting to adopt a baby and some judge decides to let a couple who just had twins and never even made an application to adopt a baby take this baby? Isn't it totally unfair and irresponsible?

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, himela said:

What I also don't like with this story is, who decided to let this couple adopt this baby? I bet there were hundreds of couples waiting to adopt a baby and some judge decides to let a couple who just had twins and never even made an application to adopt a baby take this baby? Isn't it totally unfair and irresponsible?

I basically asked this same question last year on a different forum I think (maybe it was here) and was basically told that there are a plethora of black babies so pretty much anyone can adopt one lickety split.

[Cardie]

6 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Kevin has liked Sophie since grade school, I think.  It's possible that Sophie also knew Miguel's family from then?  Just a guess.

Kevin is on a date with Sophie when their house burns. She would certainly have visited him in the following days or weeks, when the family was staying with Miguel.

[Blakeston]

14 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

As for Kate, can one interpret her action of sleeping with a man she already suspected was married as that of a woman desperate enough to have sex with someone, anyone, who found her sufficiently attractive?

I thought it was less about her being willing to sleep with anyone, and more that she'd been with a string of losers - and now here's a guy who's charming, conventionally good-looking, and takes an interest in her life.

The fact that she strongly suspected that he was married, and looked the other way, definitely reeked of desperation, though.