S02.E04: Still There

[Jillybean]

5 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

Not sure how I feel about Kate's pregnancy. I just hope that Toby doesn't overreact, with over the top gestures. Please, no gigantic stuffed toys..that trope is so overdone. So far this show has done well, surprising us with less cliched reactions, but I have a bad feeling about Toby's reactions.

His initial reaction as shown in the preview didn't seem very enthusiastic -- but I'm sure he'll get over it moments later and be even more solicitous and viligant about Kate's health.

[mmecorday]

The actress who plays Deja looks a lot like a young Uzo Aduba.

Honestly, I would watch this show if it was just about Randall, Beth and the kids. They are my favorite characters.

Elizabeth Perkins is pitch perfect as Rebecca's mother, awful as she is. I'd be shoveling snow like a maniac to get her out of my house too.

[kili]

Quote

It's not easy, and Randall is not being a success. Thank goodness for Beth.

It's not really all that surprising that Beth is connecting better with Deja. She's been the primary care-giver for 10 years while her husband worked 80 hours a week plus commuting time. She grew up in a large family and has obviously learned a lot of social skills. Add in the fact that it appears that Deja appears to have had a bad relationship with father figures (flinching when he came angrily into the room) and Randall is going to have to take his time and realize that it's not all about him. And not everything is learned in a book.  He's used to being the best at everything everywhere he goes (childhood home, school, work), so he has difficulty with being second best.  "I've been the primary care-giver for two months and the kids still go to you for a kiss!" Sit down Randall.

[MelGoLightly]

4 hours ago, Drapers4thWife said:

The best part was when they realized the fitted sheet went the other way. My spouse and I do that every time! I think I'll go on Shark Tank with a freakin' labeled sheet and make a million dollars. 

Slight off topic, but it's so urgent: I have a few sets of bedsheets I got from Target that have tags on each end that say "side" and "top or bottom". It's heaven. 

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Yes, that was Elizabeth Perkins. I think a different actress played Rebecca's mother first season. I could be wrong, though. 

It's always been Elizabeth Perkins in the role.

30 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

When Jack came down with the chicken pox, my first thought was..OMG Jack dies of chicken pox? But then I immediately realized that the timeline was wrong. I mean, it's not enough that I keep expecting a piano to fall on his head every time he walks on a sidewalk, but now I'm killing him off in the wrong time periods...

When Annie was describing William in the helicopter, I didn't realize it was a dream, and I was thinking, "Of course, in addition to being a brilliant poet, a world-class musician, and a civil rights hero, William was also knew how to fly helicopters! Why am I not surprised?"

This show does strange things to us.

[camom]

Quote

The best part was when they realized the fitted sheet went the other way. My spouse and I do that every time! I think I'll go on Shark Tank with a freakin' labeled sheet and make a million dollars. 

I put a safety pin on one of the corners.  That pin goes on the top right or left bottom.  No problem with the pin in the laundry.  Suppose Shark Tank will give me a bunch of money for that idea?

Kate's pregnancy will be high risk, with her age and weight.  I wonder how much drama we'll get from that.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I really think the kids should have been sheltered from the entire thing.  Randall loved his grandmother and didn't realize that she didn't love him back.  Why hurt him so much?  Why not keep that delusion while he's little, with vague reasons for why she doesn't come around much anymore? He's going to experience enough racism in his life without learning that his own grandmother is against him. I thought the, " Let's all get together and shun Grandma for hidden racism," thing was a difficult and mixed message -- much too hard for ten year-old children to understand. 

I think that Rebecca telling her mother she had to leave was her attempt to shelter Randall (and "the twins") from the entire thing but it backfired because Randall overheard Rebecca and her mother fighting. Since the cat was out of the bag, she and Jack decided to discuss it directly with Randall. That was a better idea than telling him everything was fine and never bringing it up again IMO. If he hadn't walked in on them yelling at each other, I think Rebecca and Jack would have gone the way you described, making vague excuses as to why they haven't seen grandma lately.

2 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

I kind of liked that they showed that Randall heard the discussion between Rebecca and her mother.  Kids overhear things they shouldn't all the time.  Parents involve their kids in adult decisions all the time.  Should they?  Nope.  But at least Rebecca and Jack sat him down and discussed it in an age appropriate way.  Too many times my parents just shuffled me out of the room and let me wonder.

ITA - kids overhear things all the time that they really shouldn't hear. Of course, that's a lot more likely to happen when you're fighting with someone loudly, but even when it's whispered, kids still hear things that were not meant for them. Related anecdote: my parents went through a patch where they fought a lot but they would never admit it to us because they wanted to maintain the illusion that nothing was wrong. If they started fighting while we were awake aka before we were in bed, they would go into their bedroom, shut the door, and then turn on their clock radio TOP VOLUME and proceed to scream at each other, as if the sound of adult contemporary radio blaring was enough to hide their yelling. I later got involved in a lot of adult decision that I wish I'd been left out of (like being asked to referee their "discussions"). But I agree that Jack and Rebecca addressing what he'd overheard (and in an age appropriate way) was the best thing to do after he heard Rebecca and her mom's fight.

2 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I loved Jack and Rebecca explaining subtle racism to Kevin. I loved Rebecca trying to have a reasonable discussion with her mother and her mother saying, "I can't talk to you if you are hysterical!" I can see why Rebecca was hiding upstairs. I also loved when Rebecca's mother told Kevin he was going to go far in life with that face and Kevin says "Really?" The Little Big Three this episode were really cracking me up. The whole MLK/grandma shooting thing, Kevin's "really?" and there was a moment in the background where Kate was scratching away at herself.

When Rebecca's mother said that to her, I was like gawd, poor Rebecca has been dealing with this kind of emotional manipulation and gaslighting her entire life. No wonder she doesn't want her kids around her mother.

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I wondered about that too.  However, if Kate is living there, she probably has every shred of anything Jack ever touched so I could see that she might have the video tape.

But I really doubt she had a VHS player.  Just sayin'.

While I agree that Kate probably has a shrine/collection of Jack stuff (and that she probably converted a bunch of their old home movie tapes to digital), I wouldn't be surprised if she has the original tapes and a VCR. When it comes to Jack, I can totally see Kate having a backup for the backup of the backup. She's got any video with Jack in the cloud, on DVD, and on VHS because what if one of them doesn't work at any given moment and she needs to see it RIGHT NOW?

I still have an old VCR that I never got rid of because I have some old VHS tapes. Some of them are just things I recorded from tv that I don't love enough to convert to digital (like the first season of So You Think You Can Dance) but my family still has a bunch of VHS tapes of our childhood dance recitals and stuff like that. I have made it a project to convert them to DVD (my mom bought one of those combination VHS/DVD machines for that purpose but before those existed, we had both a VHS player and a DVD player hooked up to their tv and we would record the old school way). I try to do a pile of tapes every time I go home for Christmas but it takes soooooo long and we have soooooo many tapes that I feel like I will never finish converting them all. My mom doesn't want to send the tapes to one of those digital conversion services because "what if they lose our tapes?"

1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

Not only was it crazy that he had the tape of his football game on hand, the video itself was too crisp and clear.

ITA - especially since I have lots of those old VHS tapes that I converted to DVD. The quality varies but a lot is absolute shit, to the point that if I didn't know which one was me, it would just be a sea of fuzzy faces.

1 hour ago, Lilacly said:

For Kate? No way. She'd definitely name her son Jack, I just wonder what middle name she'd go for.

Her son's name will be Jack Jackerson. No other name but Jack is good enough for her son!

1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

I wish I could remember where I saw the Dan Fogelmann interview where he said Toby is like this dream guy that every woman wants...or something along those lines. Apparently he thinks he has created quite the amazing boyfriend/fiance in Toby.  This was maybe in one of the EW interviews in the past couple of weeks. Do people apart from this forum love Toby?  

Ugh, just no. How can he be delusional enough to see Toby as a dream guy?

[cardigirl]

I like Toby, but on this forum, I'm in the minority.  I also am interested in finding out more about Miguel, and do not mind him as much as some folks do.  I like the show a lot and like to read other people's comments on it, but I really don't get all the hatred for these characters.  I haven't seen unforgivable behavior from either of them in my opinion.

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't have a problem with Toby.  I think he's a friggin saint for dealing with Kate's never ending barrage of bullshit and blame for every single thing he does that she feels is a slight to her.  Kate and Toby are example #1 for why you don't get into a relationship when you hate yourself and haven't dealt with your demons.  Toby can't do anything without her taking it personally and thinking it's some crack at her.  He gives her a muffin - a completely innocent thing to do when you notice someone hasn't been eating.  He even went above and beyond and made it as healthy as possible - and she's rolling her eyes at him.  He's noticed she's gone off the deep end with losing weight and trying to get healthy and he's trying to help.   That's what people who care about you do, they notice a pattern and call your attention to it before you are too far gone to catch yourself and maybe come back to the middle ground.  Was giving someone who's trying to lose weight a muffin the most well thought out plan?  No.  But at least the effort was there.

If I were Toby I'd have taken off a long time ago.

[UBT]

Randall screwed up with Deja. Telling her that her hair is beautiful and then that you had a nervous breakdown and inviting her to do something alone with him— she sees it as a threat.  

Obviously she doesn’t feel safe with men. She doesn’t trust Randall. Who knows what her other experiences have been in foster care or maybe relatives or her mother’s boyfriends. I think she cut the braids to attempt to keep herself safe. 

[tennisgurl]

I haven't gotten to read most of the other comments yet, but my first thoughts:

Oh Kevin. I feel so awful for him, he clearly has serious self esteem issues, and now its going to lead to even bigger problems for him. Knowing that he not only lost football, something he loved and built his life around, he lost something that connected him with his father. The only good thing I can see coming from his now inevitable drug addiction is that maybe his family will FINALLY pay some damn attention to him, and Justin getting to continue getting a good story line that has nothing to do with acting or romance! 

Oh snap, Kate is pregnant! I cant say I saw it coming. I guess it could be alright, even if I still think her and Toby are moving ridiculously fast, and I think Kate being a mom will be a really good thing, but I am never super pumped about new babies popping up in shows. It will be interesting to see how Toby reacts. I think Toby is a decent guy, but he is WAY over the top and rather selfish in his big gestures, so I would be interested to see how he deals with being a father. 

"Did grandma shoot him?!?!" Oh my God I love kid Randall. Also love? Rebecca telling her awful mother off, and Jack going out, while sick, to shovel the driveway to get rid of racist grandma. He was basically like "I dont care if I drop dead in the lawn, I am not letting this awful human dig at my wife and kids for one more SECOND!". I know Rebecca has her flaws as a mom, but she is a damn saint compared to her mom. Rebecca is a loving mom who will do anything for her kids, and would never hurt them on purpose like her mom did to her. That lady could try the "it was a different time" card for Randall, but that only takes you so far, and has nothing to do with her constant criticism of Rebecca and her whole family, and how her constant comments to her grand kids really did lead to problems that still plague them.  Randall is her grandson, who she has known his he was an infant, and she is still pulling this shit? While Grandma might not have created all these problems, what Rebecca said sadly will become true for the Pearson kids. Kate will have a weight complex, Randall will struggle with his identity in regards to race and family, and Kevin will put too much of his self worth into his looks. 

Way to go, Randall. No kid wants to hear about your breakdowns! I love Randall, but its nice to see him struggling and making mistakes. I felt like he was too perfect for awhile (especially compared to Kevin and Kate) so it seems fair to let him struggle. He wanted a foster kid for him to relate to, but he cant perfectly relate to Deja in the way I think he expected to. While Randall did struggle with being adopted, he still had a family who unconditionally loved and supported him for his entire life, while Deja has never had that. It was so sad seeing her hack off her hair about her talk with Beth. Her braids really did look good! 

I really like this season so far!

[screenaddict]

Randall is making the same mistake many parents do: When our kids have a problem, we wind up making it about us instead of them. In our minds, we're trying to say, "I know how you feel, because I experienced the same thing, and even though it was years ago, it feels like yesterday!" The kids hear "Blah blah blah me me me blah blah."

I continue to feel bad for young Kevin, who seems to be his parents' lowest priority. If Kate were complaining about itching, Jack would bring out his magic Calamine lotion that he's been hording since 1971, because it will magically make the itches go away. If Randall were complaining about itching, his parents would take a picture of him being a Brave Little Man and hang it on the refrigerator as inspiration for the other two. But Kevin gets the "Suck it up, buddy" speech. No wonder why he's internalized his emotions as an adult, only to have periodic meltdowns when things are too difficult to keep down.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Kate pregnancy. Having a kid has a way of forcing you to put someone else first in your life. I'm not convinced she puts her fiance first in her life - what is going to happen when she has a kid and there are two humans expecting her to occasionally acquiesce? 

[Katy M]

36 minutes ago, screenaddict said:

I'm not sure how I feel about the Kate pregnancy. Having a kid has a way of forcing you to put someone else first in your life. I'm not convinced she puts her fiance first in her life - what is going to happen when she has a kid and there are two humans expecting her to occasionally acquiesce? 

I think we're already beginning to see the beginnings of that story.  Will Kate put the child's nutritional needs over her weight loss needs?  Obviously, healthily the two go hand in hand.  But, in a rushed up weight loss, the baby would suffer.

[kili]

Quote

Having a kid has a way of forcing you to put someone else first in your life. I'm not convinced she puts her fiance first in her life - what is going to happen when she has a kid and there are two humans expecting her to occasionally acquiesce? 

I think she demonstrated that she can put others first when she made Kevin her priority when she worked for him. It's true that she doesn't put Toby first, but that is a problem with that relationship. I suspect that she will be a very devoted mother, but she's got a low self-esteem and food issues, so I'm not sure what that will do to mess up the kid. I could see her being very concerned if the child packs on a few pounds and there are periods before growth spurts where that tends to happen for some kids.

[MoonMountain]

4 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Oh good.  Kate's pregnant.  So she can pass on all of her victim crap to her kid.

Fabulous.

One thing I don't understand about shows like this is when they finally have characters gaining some introspection and self awareness and then they chuck it.  Kevin's pill addiction is unnecessary.  Why spend all that time on how meant to be he and Sophie are if they're just going to destroy it?  Because what's gonna end up happening is he's gonna end up stealing medication using her nurses badge or something along those lines and destroying any chance they had at happiness.  It's kind of tired trope.

I agree with you on the Kevin/addiction story line. Shows also seem to do this with surprise pregnancies too, and, oh look -- Kate's pregnant! That didn't surprise me in the least. I can't say I saw it coming, but I definitely was not surprised. I had like, zero emotional reaction, other than, of COURSE she's pregnant. If it's not a boy named Jack, it will be a girl named Jackie. Or it will be a devastating and complicated pregnancy that ends tragically. I could see this going either way. 

Toby will be excited, and probably over-bearing. Shows do that a lot in the previews too, where one character announces she's pregnant, and we see the other person go, "Uhhh, what?" so that you think they might react negatively, and then in the actual episode, we see that they really say, "Uhhh, what? THAT'S AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Haha.

I don't know how to quote multiple posts, but in response to whoever said that the actor who plays Toby really thinks he's created some dream guy -- I didn't read the article you mentioned, but it is true! I read another interview after the first season with Chrissy Metz and she was talking about Toby, and she was gushing about how perfect the actor is in the role, and how he's created this wonderful partner for Kate. Maybe a lot of things end up on the cutting room floor? Or maybe they have a rapport on set that doesn't translate onto tv? I'm stumped on that one. He also reminds me of an old boss who I couldn't stand, so Toby is a fail for me. Haha.

The rest of the casting though -- spot on. Rebecca's mother not only nailed her scenes, but I would 100% believe she was actually Mandy Moore's mom if someone told me she was. So good. I loved the ending scene with her and Randall, and how young Randall handled it so maturely even after learning the truth about his grandma.

And the actress who plays Deja is amazing too. When Randall was talking to her, and you saw her reflection in the mirror, I could see exactly what her character was thinking, and my heart slowly started sinking until she said, "She told you?" Ugh. So heartbreaking. Obviously Beth did the right thing in speaking to Randall, but she should have told him she thought she made some real progress, and for him to not mention anything. Although, she probably figured it was a no-brainer that he would bring up something so personal to a child he barely knows when he wasn't present for that conversation. I wonder if we'll see Beth lay into Randall at all for that one, or at least remind him when he needs to have a filter! He ended up making both of them look kinda bad in Deja's eyes.

I am glad Randall is trying to use his experiences to inspire Deja, but they're way too preachy, long-winded and serious. And frankly, not all that relevant. Getting left at a fire station and adopted at birth is a lot different than being an adolescent with a single parent who is a criminal and obviously has provided a very unstable life for her thus far. I think if he talked about this stuff a little less formally, and a little less word vomit-y, he'd have better luck. And talking about his nervous breakdowns was totally inappropriate. Save that for later, or if it seems she's actually on the verge of one and really needs help. Not when she's still adjusting to her life with them. It's so frustrating to watch! When he came to her bedroom door, I just thought, "oh god, no." So cringe-y.

Someone else also mentioned they have a hard time believing she's 12. I was thinking that too, but then I remembered 2017 12-year olds are a lot different than 1997 12-year olds (which is when I myself was 12). Such a different world. The internet says the actress is 14 now, so provided she was 13 during filming, it's about right.

And the Jack videos at Toby/Kate's house....so, those would have been recorded on VHS originally, and transferred onto DVD or some other program, as has been mentioned. That in itself is legit, I suppose. But if their house burned down in a fire and it looks like they pretty much lost everything...how did the VHS tapes hold up in order for this to even happen? And the pausing on Jack's face before taking the pill -- that scene was a little corny for me. 

[hookedontv]

I really like Randall but... He needs to back off Deja and follow her cues instead of forcing himself into her life. Beth won over Deja with the "it's just you and me here" comment. Either Beth should have told Randall and said "please do not discuss this with her" or if Beth knows her husband well enough, she should have not told him because she realizes he can't keep it to himself. At that age, I would have never talked to my dad about my hair, or deep feelings-it was more of a bonding thing with my mom. 

 

I'm half expecting Randall to ask Deja if she prefers tampons or pads, so he can jot it down on the grocery list hanging up in the kitchen! 

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, marceline said:

I loved the chicken pox story. Watching Rebecca putting calamine lotion on her itchy kids reminded me of when I had it. Ugh, I hated the smell of that stuff.

Young Randall is such a gem. I cracked up at "Did Grandma shoot MLK?!" but I really liked when Grandma said he was a pretty special kid and he softly said "Took you long enough." Yes sweetie. It did.

The foster story is a tough watch. I agree that Randall's perfectionism is starting to become an issue. He's dumping too much on Deja and you can feel his desperation to connect with her. It's the epitome of how people are repelled by neediness. Also, by now it should be apparent that Deja has problem with men. In fact it should've been expected. Randall needs to back the hell off and let Deja set the tone. He can concentrate on Tess and Annie. I'm beginning to wonder what training Beth and Randall got in what to expect from a foster child. I wondered the same thing when Beth tried putting away Deja's belongings last week. Sometimes they seem really intuitive and other times they seem clueless. Goodness Randall, why would you tell a girl who has been exposed to sketchy men her whole life that you've had two nervous breakdowns? One triggered by the birth of your daughter and the other only a few months ago?!! How the hell is that supposed to make her feel safe?

I LOVED all the exposure to black hair care in this ep. I kind of slowly lost it to see the same hair care products I use sitting on Deja's dresser. 

I'm hoping that we aren't getting a Kevin as addict story. I'm hopeful that this is just an intro to dealing with his clearly deep-seated grief about Jack. There's a LOT going on there.

I don't care about Kate being pregnant. I feel like it's just going to be a non-stop story about obesity in pregnancy.

I had a TERRIBLE case of chicken pox at age 14!  It was a nightmare.  Elders in my family, said they had never seen anything like it.  My brothers got it too, but, not nearly as bad.  I do laugh when I hear people on tv say they are using Calamine lotion.   That is the most worthless stuff I've ever seen.  It never helped me a bit, especially with chicken pox.  Chicken pox laugh at that stuff. lol

Unexpected pregnancies with unlikely characters almost always end badly, one way or the other on the screen.  I hope they can be more creative than most writers we have seen in network dramas.  (IMO, it started the downfall of Nashville when Juliet got pregnant.)

Edited October 18, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[watcher1006]

Given that Beth has done nearly all the parenting of their daughters up to this point, it seems inevitable that Randall would seem bewildered by the task he has taking on a girl as a foster child. I wonder if he might do better with a 12 year old boy? Of course introducing a boy into their household would be problematic in its own ways, but Randall might develop a different perspective on his own childhood growing up as an African-American boy in a white household.

I imagine bonding/conflict between children in a home with a foster child or children is a major issue and it would be good if they will explore that. Of course child actors can work only so many hours.

[Brookside]

I'm starting to be at the masochistic stage of watching now.  I've already started skimming all your comments, so forgive me for asking this if already answered, but am I the only person who finds Jack a sleazy skeeveball?

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Brookside said:

I'm starting to be at the masochistic stage of watching now.  I've already started skimming all your comments, so forgive me for asking this if already answered, but am I the only person who finds Jack a sleazy skeeveball?

I can't say that I do.  Is there a particular reason I should?

[NutMeg]

I cringed when Randall offered to do Deja's hair. Doesn't help that she looks like a teenager and has already showed that her instinctive reaction to him is fear. 

Of course it's followed up with him showing up in her room to comment on her hairstyle. At this point, I don't know if the writers are extremely clever with all these cringy moments that we know will be read badly by Deja while we also know that it's just Randall being his usual self-centred, clueless self and not being a creep, or if they are somewhat trying to say that what looks bad isn't always what it looks like it is. I admit that the news these past two weeks are colouring how I am seeing this.

Not helping either? Jack's vetoing any movie casting a "hot" male movie star, and Toby once again sabotaging Kate's intention to lose weight - I would get his concern if she was training for a triathlon, but the exercise she was doing was very, very, very mild, just slightly more taxing than walking along the room.

Is there any woman in the writing room?

There may be one, because the scene with Beth and Deja was fabulous. Can we have more of these small moments and less of the showboating, please?

I think I've fallen out of love with this show. We're still friends and all, and I like it well enough, but as a great lady sang, "The Thrill Is Gone".      

[debraran]

5 hours ago, Lilacly said:

For Kate? No way. She'd definitely name her son Jack, I just wonder what middle name she'd go for.

And a girl, Jacqueline or Jackie ; )  But a boy would have less emotional baggage. (maybe)

[MoonMountain]

24 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I cringed when Randall offered to do Deja's hair. Doesn't help that she looks like a teenager and has already showed that her instinctive reaction to him is fear. 

Of course it's followed up with him showing up in her room to comment on her hairstyle. At this point, I don't know if the writers are extremely clever with all these cringy moments that we know will be read badly by Deja while we also know that it's just Randall being his usual self-centred, clueless self and not being a creep, or if they are somewhat trying to say that what looks bad isn't always what it looks like it is. I admit that the news these past two weeks are colouring how I am seeing this.

Yes, kind of bad timing for this scene in light of recent news. When Randall said, "Daaang, girl!" I was like OMG you have got to be kidding me. If she had been with them longer, or if the two of them had any sort of rapport whatsoever, I could see that being cute, but in their present situations it was so cringy and borderline creepy. They just don't have that kind of a relationship yet. I can't really see the show going in this direction, but I hope he doesn't make more comments like that to the point where Deja files a complaint against him and they get in trouble.

[MoonMountain]

1 hour ago, hookedontv said:

I really like Randall but... He needs to back off Deja and follow her cues instead of forcing himself into her life. Beth won over Deja with the "it's just you and me here" comment. Either Beth should have told Randall and said "please do not discuss this with her" or if Beth knows her husband well enough, she should have not told him because she realizes he can't keep it to himself. At that age, I would have never talked to my dad about my hair, or deep feelings-it was more of a bonding thing with my mom. 

I think we posted at about the same time, as I mentioned something similar in my (unintentionally) very long comment. I don't blame Beth for sharing the general idea of their conversation with Randall, as they are both her foster parents, but for gods sakes, she should have told him that middle schoolers are sensitive as it is, and no one else in the house needs to bring up her problems with her hair. It's amazing to me that Randall doesn't have the tact to know when to keep his mouth shut.

People also mentioned before that fostering or adopting out of birth order is generally not a good idea. While I don't personally have children, I could see how this is a good idea. If Randall had already experienced the pre-teen years with his own daughters, then he probably would have more sense on how to parent Deja more effectively.

[debraran]

4 minutes ago, MoonMountain said:

Yes, kind of bad timing for this scene in light of recent news. When Randall said, "Daaang, girl!" I was like OMG you have got to be kidding me. If she had been with them longer, or if the two of them had any sort of rapport whatsoever, I could see that being cute, but in their present situations it was so cringy and borderline creepy. They just don't have that kind of a relationship yet. I can't really see the show going in this direction, but I hope he doesn't make more comments like that to the point where Deja files a complaint against him and they get in trouble.

I thought the clueless way they didn't think  that she might have been abused in a number of ways is odd.  You can be black middle class and still have a clue, this isn't rocket science and it doesn't just happen to some people.  He is raising 2 girls so he knows how to talk to them, he just has to take a breath and let her lead.  I thought it was odd too he thought his wife would be rude about the hair, he has lived with her for many years and knows she wouldn't do that. Let her bond with her and have her trust her and then slowly come into the circle.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

But if their house burned down in a fire and it looks like they pretty much lost everything...how did the VHS tapes hold up in order for this to even happen?

If those really were game films that were being used to scout Kevin as a potential college recruit, it's possible that the school athletic department (or even one of the colleges) would have had them as part of the recruitment process or college applications.  Though really... game films like that wouldn't have included ANY of Jack, never mind as much of Jack as we saw.  I like this show ok, but they need a continuity editor to clean up all the plot holes.

[roughing it]

5 hours ago, mmecorday said:

The actress who plays Deja looks a lot like a young Uzo Aduba.

She really looks like she's 15 or 16 though.  Really hard to believe her character's only 12.  It takes me out of the story.

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I wondered about that too.  However, if Kate is living there, she probably has every shred of anything Jack ever touched so I could see that she might have the video tape.

But I really doubt she had a VHS player.  Just sayin'.

Nah, I figure if she's got the tapes, she's got a player, even if she digitized them all. Surprisingly hard to get rid of the "originals" (I'm currently working at digitizing the photographs of my kids, and I have trouble even throwing away duplicate photographs, much less getting rid of the photos entirely (not to mention the negatives in the safety deposit box - just in case of fire). Some of us are just crazy that way.

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I still have an old VCR that I never got rid of because I have some old VHS tapes. Some of them are just things I recorded from tv that I don't love enough to convert to digital (like the first season of So You Think You Can Dance) but my family still has a bunch of VHS tapes of our childhood dance recitals and stuff like that. I have made it a project to convert them to DVD (my mom bought one of those combination VHS/DVD machines for that purpose but before those existed, we had both a VHS player and a DVD player hooked up to their tv and we would record the old school way). I try to do a pile of tapes every time I go home for Christmas but it takes soooooo long and we have soooooo many tapes that I feel like I will never finish converting them all. My mom doesn't want to send the tapes to one of those digital conversion services because "what if they lose our tapes?"

We do too. All of the videos of our kids are still on those tapes - and we've yet to digitize them (that is, my husband is reluctant for some reason - he's the one who's hung on to the VHS player).

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think we're already beginning to see the beginnings of that story.  Will Kate put the child's nutritional needs over her weight loss needs?  Obviously, healthily the two go hand in hand.  But, in a rushed up weight loss, the baby would suffer.

Having been in the exact position Kate's in, at least for me, having a life inside me wholly dependent on my choices made it easy for me to make the right ones. I actually lost weight - while eating exactly what the doctors wanted me to eat. 

I wish someone had said to Kevin that not listening to the doctor's orders could make his knee worse - and completely screw up his healing. 

1 minute ago, roughing it said:

She really looks like she's 15 or 16 though.  Really hard to believe her character's only 12.  It takes me out of the story.

Since I never absorbed how old she was supposed to be, it hasn't taken me out of the story at all. The actress is so good. I was really  hesitant about this story line, but I think I like it.

Randall is pretty flat footed, but I'm sure he'll learn. He's an intense guy who hasn't, at this time, really learned to back off. I think Deja will make a huge difference in his life and perspective.

[Brookside]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I can't say that I do.  Is there a particular reason I should?

Nope, just my personal skeezeball radar!

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, MoonMountain said:

Someone else also mentioned they have a hard time believing she's 12. I was thinking that too, but then I remembered 2017 12-year olds are a lot different than 1997 12-year olds (which is when I myself was 12). Such a different world. The internet says the actress is 14 now, so provided she was 13 during filming, it's about right.

That was me and I'm actually pretty surprised to hear that the actress was 13/14 when this was filmed.  I'm around a lot of kids who are 12/13 and they all appear much younger than this actress.  Of course, everyone hits puberty at a different point, so I guess she's a bit on the early side of things.  Still, for an actress that young, she's pretty impressive.

[MoonMountain]

17 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I wish someone had said to Kevin that not listening to the doctor's orders could make his knee worse - and completely screw up his healing. 

Seriously. Come on Kevin. You're an adult man. I know he's stubborn and determined, and obviously trying to avoid the painkillers, but surely he knows getting on the treadmill hours after surgery is probably not wise. That annoyed me. If I were Toby, I would have just been like, "Okay dude, you're an idiot, but you're also an adult and I can't stop you from doing things you know are stupid. Good luck with that!" I don't really know how addition works, but could he have disclosed to his doctors in private his concerns about the prescription pills, and talked about over-the-counter meds or even natural remedies that would be harder to get hooked on? 

6 minutes ago, Brookside said:

Nope, just my personal skeezeball radar!

I don't find Jack skeezy in the least, but sometimes when he has the mustache and his hair is greasy and stringy he does look a little oily, and the smirky face could add to that (I'm not hating, I know Milo had some kind of nerve damage around his mouth). I disagree with the skeezeball thing, but I could see how one would think that based on the styling they do on him sometimes. But Milo is hot, so whatev's. Hahaha.

4 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

That was me and I'm actually pretty surprised to hear that the actress was 13/14 when this was filmed.  I'm around a lot of kids who are 12/13 and they all appear much younger than this actress.  Of course, everyone hits puberty at a different point, so I guess she's a bit on the early side of things.  Still, for an actress that young, she's pretty impressive.

She definitely plays a little older, but you're right, probably due to developing earlier, and she could also be trying to portray that Deja had to grow up a little faster than a lot of kids based on her family situation. I'm sure she's had to take care of herself for a long time.

[JasminePhyllisia]

7 hours ago, marceline said:

I loved the chicken pox story. Watching Rebecca putting calamine lotion on her itchy kids reminded me of when I had it. Ugh, I hated the smell of that stuff.

Young Randall is such a gem. I cracked up at "Did Grandma shoot MLK?!" but I really liked when Grandma said he was a pretty special kid and he softly said "Took you long enough." Yes sweetie. It did.

The foster story is a tough watch. I agree that Randall's perfectionism is starting to become an issue. He's dumping too much on Deja and you can feel his desperation to connect with her. It's the epitome of how people are repelled by neediness. Also, by now it should be apparent that Deja has problem with men. In fact it should've been expected. Randall needs to back the hell off and let Deja set the tone. He can concentrate on Tess and Annie. I'm beginning to wonder what training Beth and Randall got in what to expect from a foster child. I wondered the same thing when Beth tried putting away Deja's belongings last week. Sometimes they seem really intuitive and other times they seem clueless. Goodness Randall, why would you tell a girl who has been exposed to sketchy men her whole life that you've had two nervous breakdowns? One triggered by the birth of your daughter and the other only a few months ago?!! How the hell is that supposed to make her feel safe?

I LOVED all the exposure to black hair care in this ep. I kind of slowly lost it to see the same hair care products I use sitting on Deja's dresser. 

I'm hoping that we aren't getting a Kevin as addict story. I'm hopeful that this is just an intro to dealing with his clearly deep-seated grief about Jack. There's a LOT going on there.

I don't care about Kate being pregnant. I feel like it's just going to be a non-stop story about obesity in pregnancy.

RE: your comment: I'm beginning to wonder what training Beth and Randall got in what to expect from a foster child.

I've been thinking the same thing. Is there no counseling available to them from the foster care system? If not, they can certainly afford to get some.  They assumed that they could handle this since "our girls are good, but we made them great!" (No, the writers made them unrealistically perfect and precocious actually.)  First-time foster parents need advice, counseling--maybe from other far more experienced foster parents of teens.  And as I remember they were promised a file or something about Deja's history, obviously they didn't get it yet if they don't know about her alopecia and any other potential physical and psychological afflictions she may suffer from.   Regardless, I'm thinking there will just be a few more "two steps forward, one step back" mishaps before they tie this situation up with a big happy bow.

Edited October 18, 2017 by JasminePhyllisia

[dju]

9 hours ago, marny said:

I hate to be a nitpicker (who am I kidding— I love to be a nitpicker), but where did Kevin get that football video from? He was staying at Toby’s place, so it’s not like Toby would have it lying around. Does he just carry it in his bag all the time in case he needs to wallow? 

I don't think this is a nitpick at all, marny, I think it's a very warranted issue to have, and this is where my contrivance argument comes from. They pull crap like this to make you feel something EXTRA BIG about a dad cheering on his superstar son while said son hangs his head gloomily in the foreground just in case we missed exactly what it was the show was telegraphing to us. Where he got the magical tape from doesn't matter, it's that it's a magical tape that is perfectly slotting within the trajectory of the narrative.

11 hours ago, Crs97 said:

And don't forget when Jack explained racism to Randall by explaining to Randall that sometimes Rebecca says things that sound nice, but have mean undertones.   

Yeah, this rubbed me the wrong way too, however incidental it was, because we're not supposed to find error with it, we're supposed to find it funny.

Edited October 18, 2017 by dju

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, Brookside said:

I'm starting to be at the masochistic stage of watching now.  I've already started skimming all your comments, so forgive me for asking this if already answered, but am I the only person who finds Jack a sleazy skeeveball?

I LOL'd at this post (and you're not alone).

 

44 minutes ago, Brookside said:

Sorry.  I didn't realize there was such a thing.  I'll move my armchair over right away!

See you there. :)

 

11 minutes ago, dju said:

I don't think this is a nitpick at all, marny, I think it's a very warranted issue to have, and this is where my contrivance argument comes from. They pull crap like this to make you feel something EXTRA BIG about a dad cheering on his superstar son while said son hangs his head gloomily in the foreground just in case we missed exactly what it was the show was telegraphing to us. Where he got the magical tape from doesn't matter, it's that it's a magical tape that is perfectly slotting within the trajectory of the narrative.

So.  Spot.  On.

[tribeca]

When Kate went in the diet aides aisle I thought she was going to be the one to become addicted to pills.   Was so happy and relieved when the doctor said she was pregnant.  Kate and Toby will be sweet parents JMHO 

[Empress1]

20 hours ago, Katy M said:

I loved this part:  "Someone killed Martin Luther King Jr....."  "Did grandma kill him?"  That cracked me up.

I DIED LAUGHING. His face when he says it is everything. I have watched about ten minutes of the show White Famous and when I saw that actor was in it (he plays the main character's son) I was like, "OK, I have to at least give this a shot" because that child is precious and such a great actor. The second funniest moment was when Randall sang a little bit of his antibiotic boo-boo song verse with his cute little head-bob.

Rebecca's mother's excuse about being from a different time was bullshit. Rebecca was a champ telling her off.

Quote

But I really doubt she had a VHS player.  Just sayin'.

My brother has a DVD/VCR combo. He "likes VHSs." I don't know. 

Quote

The actress who plays Deja looks a lot like a young Uzo Aduba.

She does. I don't watch Orange is the New Black but she could easily play a flashback version of her character, or her daughter if she had one. The hair scene was heartbreaking. I felt so bad for her. I absolutely understand why it all went the way it did, but I still felt awful.

[kili]

Quote

 They assumed that they could handle this since "our girls are good, but we made them great!" (No, the writers made them unrealistically perfect and precocious actually.)

Their daughters are also in the sweet spot right now.  I noticed even when I was babysitting as a teen that kids 8 through 10 were the best. They still share with their parents, are up for almost anything and have such joy in discovering new things. Younger kids needs a lot of supervision and still share a lot of their parents opinions. Older kids are starting to cleave from their parents, test the boundaries and can be pretty surly.

While all ages are great and offer challenges in their own ways, that 8-10 period is a truly magical time. IMO.  It's a lot easier to look like a successful parent  when your kids are in that age range.

It is those pre-teen and teen years that really test your parenting skills and Deja is teen.  Now, there are always exceptions, but Deja appears not to be one.
 

Quote

That was me and I'm actually pretty surprised to hear that the actress was 13/14 when this was filmed.  I'm around a lot of kids who are 12/13 and they all appear much younger than this actress. 

I think she's had a hard 13 years. She's got a mop of unkept hair  (for hiding behind, from stress and from lack of parenting reasons). She's dressing like a hobo. She's probably not sleeping all that well in a strange house and with her mother facing jail. She constantly fears that she is going to be tossed out of yet another foster home at any moment. She's got more worries than any teen should have.  I would be surprised if she had looked as young as that other girl at the bowling alley.

Edited October 18, 2017 by kili

[RedSoxRock]

I don't want to be Debbie Downer but Kate is not just fat. She's morbidly obese. It's very rare for women her size to menstruate let alone get pregnant without even trying. I find this extremely unrealistic.

Edited October 19, 2017 by RedSoxRock
Auto correct - grrr.

[Wings]

7 minutes ago, RedSoxRock said:

I don't want to be Debbie Downer but Kate is not just fat. She's morbidly obese. It's very rare for women her size to menstruate let alone get pregnant without even trying. I find this extremely unrealistic.

Yep.  She will have a miscarriage for yet another tear jerking episode.  Oh hell, that is probably a triple header, one episode will not cover it.  

[Dejana]

38 minutes ago, RedSoxRock said:

I don't want to be Debbie Downer but Kate is not just fat. She's morbidly obese. It's very rare for women her size to menstruate let alone get pregnant without even trying. I find this extremely unrealistic.

An old article—obesity has only increased in the US—but from "Too Fat and Pregnant", The New York Times Magazine, July 13, 2008:

Quote

The offices of Dr. Mark Chames, an obstetrician at the University of Michigan Health System in Ann Arbor, are outfitted with some special equipment. The blood-pressure cuffs used on patients’ arms are actually thigh cuffs, originally designed to strap around a leg. Standard scales, which measure up to 350 pounds, have been supplemented by ones that accommodate 880 pounds. Before the new scales arrived, some patients were weighed at the hospital loading dock.

After decades in which the obesity epidemic spread to every demographic group in the nation, it has also ended up here: the maternity ward. One in five women who give birth in the U.S. is obese, according to Susan Chu, an epidemiologist at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And doctors are seeing more pregnant women who are morbidly obese, weighing 400, 500, even 600 pounds. Excess weight makes pregnancy riskier: obese women are more likely to develop hypertension and diabetes, and to deliver prematurely. The need to manage their conditions, and to meet their logistical needs, is giving rise to a new medical subspecialty, what some are calling “bariatric obstetrics.” Chames, who already sees at least a dozen morbidly obese pregnant women each month, will direct his hospital’s new Center for Bariatric Obstetric Care when it opens later this summer.

 

I feel it will be hard for the writers to resist the angst and drama of Kate having a daughter. Since Rebecca got pregnant with triplets naturally, I'm mildly surprised that Kate wasn't scripted as conceiving twins, at least!

[voiceover]

I have to get aboard the Randall Defense Train here.

There's been a lot of pointing out his mistakes with Deja, and why he's making them, but I can't find it in me to condemn him for this. 

There's a learning curve to everything, and right now, "Foster Parenting" is a steep one for him.  It's a challenge to a man who built a Goldberg construct at 10, only after puzzling and puzzling over the thing that wasn't working.  Boom! different ball size, different result.

And I believe he'll eventually have the same result with Deja.  Why?  Because, while he is a man who gets frustrated (that's describing most people), and he is a man whose motives may not have been 100% unselfish (that's also describing most people), he is not a man who shrinks from a challenge (that's NOT describing most people).

Yay Randall!  The picture won't look like what you thought it would when you took out your paintbox, but I expect it'll be art anyway.

Edited October 19, 2017 by voiceover
Because the iPhone posts faster than I can write dammit

[voiceover]

6 hours ago, screenaddict said:

Randall is making the same mistake many parents do: When our kids have a problem, we wind up making it about us instead of them. In our minds, we're trying to say, "I know how you feel, because I experienced the same thing, and even though it was years ago, it feels like yesterday!" The kids hear "Blah blah blah me me me blah blah."

Parents...and aunties, she confessed.

You have totally cracked me up with this.  I am reminded of the "Far Side" cartoon of "What we say to dogs"/"What they hear", which reads about the same as "The kids hear..."

The next time I feel compelled to impart wisdom to Nephew de Voiceover, I'll remember this.

And maybe Randall will do the same.

Quote

@voiceover: For the first time in this series, I was struck by how much Justin looks like Milo.  It was the moment when Kevin paused the vid, right on Jack's face -- then it cut to his reaction.  And I thought, There it is.

@Winston9-DT3: I thought the opposite...  Good thing Hartley and Ventimiglia don't share scenes because they look nothing alike.  

I wasn't very clear.  It was the *expression* on Justin's face that reminded me of the same from Milo.

Made me wonder if Justin's been watching Milo's onscreen work.

Edited October 19, 2017 by voiceover

[tennisgurl]

I should mention that on Twitter last night, the This is Us tag came with an emoji box of tissues every time you tweeted about it! 

[qtpye]

23 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Kate's pregnant, did not see that coming.

This may sound wrong but I'm sick of Deja; if I could wear my hair in braids like that, I wouldn't worry about anything.  WTF is wrong with that girl?

But, on the other hand, I think I get her.  If I suddenly were dropped in a foreign culture, I'd probably react like Deja.  See, Beth and Randall did what couples do, what parents do, they talk about their kids.  But Deja doesn't get that; she's grown up in dysfunction, she doesn't know what healthy parents are, she doesn't know what they do.  Her mother's been in and out of jail and Deja as been in survival mode all of her life.

Those braids were everything.  I understand the poor child is suffering, but I was also heart broken at her cutting that hair.

23 hours ago, Katy M said:

Not really suprising.  We don't know what her other foster families have been like, but we know she doesn't have a father at home.  If her mom has skeevy boyfriends, I'd be reluctant to trust men, too.

 

23 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Yep, I think we're going to discover that her mother brought a guy(s) into her life who treated her badly, maybe even abused her  And, maybe that her mother overshared with him about Deja and it lead to a bad situation for her.  Hence, Deja is afraid to  appear vulnerable in front of Randall.

 

23 hours ago, stonehaven said:

Good episode and Randall and Beth are great together....but Mandy Moore owned the episode for me. Loved her talking to her mother...not yelling..but just talking to her..honestly.....and then avoiding her....

Although, just once....I want her to have the line, "This is how I deal"....

As for Kevin's storyline, it looks to go a little dark but I am willing to go along with with it.....Overall, a decent episode with growth in characters but not a lot of action...found myself looking at the clock a few times.

 

23 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Yeah, they should maybe just focus on making Deja feel as safe as possible in her new home, and let her let her guard down on her own schedule.  Randall really wants to relate to Deja, but on a fundamental level he really can't.  For everything he's been through, he doesn't know what it's like to not have any trustworthy adults around or a stable home.  He knew growing up that Jack and Rebecca would protect him no matter what.     

 

23 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I enjoy every episode, I feel like Rebecca got a chance to 'shine" this week.  She stood up to her Mother and protected her children.  The actress playing Rebecca's Mom is very good & convincing as a "snooty Mom".     I am surprised by the Kate pregnancy storyline, I did not see that coming!  I don't know what I think of that...isn't there enough going on in her life, without a baby too?    I admit to tears in the eyes when Kevin was watching his video of his football glory days & how proud Jack was of him.  All the kids wanted Jack to be proud of them.    And again, I ask, did I miss something about Toby?  What the heck does he do for a living?!  He seems to have a nice apartment, but he was just hanging around all day, cooking for Kate, caring for Kevin, doesn't he have a job he needs to go to?  Or are we supposed to assume he works from home?

 

22 hours ago, pennben said:

In general, I liked a lot in this episode, I two huge complaints that made me scream in anger.  

Those first:

1.  I thought Beth was lovely with the foster child, she built the trust and did the braids that gave that child confidence.  And of course, I had no problem with her talking to Randall about it, none at all.  But the fact that apparently this whole fostering thing is, in Randall's mind, still all about Randall and what he needs and not the kid, he just couldn't let the kid take her time to build trust with him to tell him something that obviously caused her great pain and embarrassment.  No, he just had to insert himself and be all "hey, I'm stressed out too, a lot, two nervous breakdowns as a matter of fact. Let me dump this on you as my way of saying I know your to-you horrifying secret that you only entrusted one person with...but you/me can be crazy stressed together"   Auggggghhhhh!!  Get your head out of your damn ass Randall.  I know we are building to a triumphant Randall moment here, but honestly, I'd kind of like it if he never gets it right since it's still just all about him.  

2.  JESUS CHRIST........ Those were the exact words (in a disappointed/are you kidding me tone)  I yelled out loud when we found out that Kate is pregnant.  Just what this show needs, an unexpected pregnancy.  This also lessens the possibility we can just be rid of Toby, who sure was fine this episode, but whatever, I have residual issues with him:)

Beyond those screaming moments, I thought they did a couple of interesting things this evening, mostly revolving around Rebecca/her mom.

1.  I know they want us to compare Rebecca/her mom and Kate/Rebecca's tense relationship.  I felt like they were going to slap us in this face this episode with a "remember when you wanted Kate to grow up when she spewed hate at Rebecca?", well, well, well,  apple/tree, look at Rebecca her mother and see Rebecca being just as needlessly spiteful.  And, while there was the residual anger/tension, it was her mother's racism that made Rebecca lose it with her mom, not the other stuff.

2.  I appreciated that the next day, her mom didn't fully deny that she treated Randall differently.  That was unexpected (by me) from this show.  She didn't admit racism, but acknowledged that there was a real issue there.  Good for you show.

Oh yeah, and Kevin is developing a drug issue.  Yawn.  

 

22 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Who the freak turns down a kid - any kid in the world - who offers to show you his creatively constructed Rube Goldberg machine??  Yeah.  Fucking racist beyotch does.  His grandmother.  And she's been his grandmother for 10 years.  Ten fucking years.  I refuse to hear any argument about how she's just so misunderstood.  Nor about how Rebecca takes after her or behaves any way like her. 

Rube Goldberg machine constructed and explained by your amazing and gifted grandson.  I'm all in.

 

13 hours ago, Drapers4thWife said:

You can't worry about jobs with this show. Once they finished Randall's storyline about his work they writers seemed done worrying about jobs. Because not just Toby, but what about Kate? She had the job with Jami Gertz for one episode then we never saw it or was mentioned again. But Kate has had endless time off, first to stay in New York after Toby's heart attack, then go to fat camp, now she apparently has endless money without working to do what she wants all day. Randall quit his high-paying but he and Beth didn't even blink about money - she has a job of some sort but yet is always around the house. It's just the nature of TV, presumably all this drama happens on the weekends. 

I'll fanwank it to say that Toby invented some amazing software or co-founded a computer company or something and so he has a bunch of money and no need for Kate and him to work. 

 

12 hours ago, Jillybean said:

As far as I can tell, Toby and Kate are both unemployed.  After she bailed on Jami Gertz, we never heard anything again about her employment. Some posters have suggested she may be working for Kevin again, but that hasn't been shown or mentioned. I don't recall any mentions of Toby's employment status ever. Apparently he can cover the expenses associated with a heart attack.  (Side note: I don't think anything was ever mentioned about Toby and Kate living together. They just seemed to be doing so at the start of this season).

I think Randall and Beth probably have plenty of money in the bank, and her paycheck probably can cover the day-to-day. But yes, she always seems to be home. 

Like you, it's something I notice but realize is the nature of TV. After all, on Friends Monica was supposed to be a chef at a high-end restaurant, but she always seemed to have plenty of time to hang around her apartment or Central Perk on evenings and weekends.

 

12 hours ago, laurakaye said:

You are clearly focusing too much on silly details because you're not crying enough.  This is just one of many details this show has glossed over because...I don't know, the writers think we aren't really paying attention?  I have no idea.

 

I don't buy this relationship at all, I have never seen chemistry between him and Kate, and seriously - the guy puts a muffin on top of the television where Kate is exercising??  Who does that?  I don't care if he baked it out of oxygen and spinach, what he did there - and what he has done in the past - is actually pretty mean-spirited.  And then there was the way he looked at her after she asked him if she could please turn her video back on...my first thought was he's scared that she'll lose weight and leave him.  But now she's pregnant, so........I just cannot buy these two as a couple at all.

 

5 hours ago, hookedontv said:

I really like Randall but... He needs to back off Deja and follow her cues instead of forcing himself into her life. Beth won over Deja with the "it's just you and me here" comment. Either Beth should have told Randall and said "please do not discuss this with her" or if Beth knows her husband well enough, she should have not told him because she realizes he can't keep it to himself. At that age, I would have never talked to my dad about my hair, or deep feelings-it was more of a bonding thing with my mom. 

 

I'm half expecting Randall to ask Deja if she prefers tampons or pads, so he can jot it down on the grocery list hanging up in the kitchen! 

 

3 hours ago, debraran said:

I thought the clueless way they didn't think  that she might have been abused in a number of ways is odd.  You can be black middle class and still have a clue, this isn't rocket science and it doesn't just happen to some people.  He is raising 2 girls so he knows how to talk to them, he just has to take a breath and let her lead.  I thought it was odd too he thought his wife would be rude about the hair, he has lived with her for many years and knows she wouldn't do that. Let her bond with her and have her trust her and then slowly come into the circle.

There was a show called Girlfriends and it had a character named Lyn and one named Tony (both were woman).  Lyn was a biracial girl who was adopted and raised in a white family.  Lyn had a lot of identity issues due to her background (she was also lazy as hell, very unlike Randall).   Lyn would complain about her all white private school and other fairly privileged things and sometimes Tony would say "Dang, I wish some rich white people had adopted me."

I think it is very true what the other posters have said about Randall being very clueless and dense to Deja's life.  Randall always seemed to lack a little social savvy and , yeah, probably has had a pretty sheltered life in comparison.

Randall wants to project himself on Deja, but they come from totally different experiences.  He really just need to chill out and let her come to know him on his own time, but this is unthinkable to his perfectionist overachieving nature.  I love his girls.

I loved that Rebecca stood up to her mother.  It is obvious that she feels that Rebecca married beneath herself and wonders why the heck a white family would adopt a black child.  However, I was glad the show did not just show her as a monster and she finally opened up to Randall, but it should have happened much sooner.

I feel like Rebecca can not win with the females in her family.  Her daughter literally resents her for existing.  I know it sucks to have such a pretty mom, when you have such low self esteem, but it really is not Rebecca's fault.

Her mother obviously expected her beautiful daughter "to marry well" and finds her to be a failure, since her definition of a good husband is not Jack.

I have lived in Cleveland and Pennsylvania and ( I am female) have shoveled a fair amount of snow.  I would never have my sick as a dog husband and son shoveling several feet so my bitchy mother can leave.

I have never found Kate to be into Toby.  I feel like she barely remembers he is there.  I also need some dialogue about how Kate is so economically secure.  I know Kevin is a millionaire and Randall has done very well for himself on Wall Street, but still have no idea about Kate's finances.  Did Jack leave them some money?  Does she help pay rent with Toby?

[OtterMommy]

20 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Who gets an ultrasound at six weeks?  When I was pregnant, I think we got two-- one at like 15 weeks and then at 20 or something.  I know they're done a lot more often now, though.  

As far as I know, only women who have been artificially inseminated/IVF etc.  Most women are just peeing on a stick at 6 weeks.  When I was having babies (less than a decade ago), the OB/GYN wouldn't even see you until you were 10 weeks.  I think the earliest I had an ultrasound was at my 10 week appointment, and that is because my OB/GYN (I had a different doctor for each pregnancy) had one in her office.  Normally, it was at 14 weeks (I think) if you are having the nuchal tube testing and then around 20 weeks.

But you know what I chalk all that up to?  A man writing this (to be fair, I have no clue who actually wrote this episode.  It could have been a woman, but my default is to blame Fogelman for everything).  This isn't an excuse....I've seen so many shows, usually written by men, where the whole pregnancy thing is so unlike anything that would happen in reality.  Seriously, is it that hard to talk to a woman?  We are, after all, 51% of the population....

[Clanstarling]

50 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Yeah, Jack in the video store... what a prize.  Rebecca's ALWAYS wanted to watch Broadcast News and he always vetoes it?  Then she agrees to his dude flick and he vetoes that because she might enjoy it?  

Who gets an ultrasound at six weeks?  When I was pregnant, I think we got two-- one at like 15 weeks and then at 20 or something.  I know they're done a lot more often now, though.  

I don't think Jack's a particular prize, but I took that scene as a bit of an in joke between the two of them. It seemed light hearted to me.

Yeah, six weeks sounds awfully early. I don't remember when I had my first ultrasounds, but I don't recall them even wanting to set up an appointment until at least 10 weeks. And for my last one, that first ultrasound was a vaginal one - to verify a heartbeat. Which I think would be much more effective for that early in the pregnancy anyway, since there's not much to see at that point.

[doodlebug]

20 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

As far as I know, only women who have been artificially inseminated/IVF etc.  Most women are just peeing on a stick at 6 weeks.  When I was having babies (less than a decade ago), the OB/GYN wouldn't even see you until you were 10 weeks.  I think the earliest I had an ultrasound was at my 10 week appointment, and that is because my OB/GYN (I had a different doctor for each pregnancy) had one in her office.  Normally, it was at 14 weeks (I think) if you are having the nuchal tube testing and then around 20 weeks.

But you know what I chalk all that up to?  A man writing this (to be fair, I have no clue who actually wrote this episode.  It could have been a woman, but my default is to blame Fogelman for everything).  This isn't an excuse....I've seen so many shows, usually written by men, where the whole pregnancy thing is so unlike anything that would happen in reality.  Seriously, is it that hard to talk to a woman?  We are, after all, 51% of the population....

OB/GYN here.  First off, most insurance companies only pay for two ultrasounds in an uncomplicated pregnancy, any more than that are considered 'routine' prenatal care for the doc who does them and are not reimbursed. Kate, however, due to her extreme obesity as well as her age; will never be a routine pregnant woman, her doc will probably be sending her for a consultation with a high risk specialist by 10 weeks or so. Many doctors do an ultrasound at the first prenatal visit just to check for a heartbeat and confirm the due date, usually it is included as part of the visit and not billed separately.  However, as noted, most docs don't see new OB patients until 10 weeks or so.  However, perhaps Kate, like many morbidly obese women, has irregular periods or was spotting or something and that's why she saw the doctor sooner than usual.  Certainly in a woman her size, it is imperative to nail down a due date as early as possible both for accuracy and because there is no way on God's green earth that a woman her size having her first kid at age 36 is not going to have gestational diabetes and/or blood pressure issues and need to have labor induced at some point.  Obviously, with a woman Kate's size, attempting to assess the size of her uterus on examination is going to be impossible, the doctor wouldn't be able to feel it.  It will probably also be impossible to hear the heart rate with a Doppler (the electronic gizmo we use in the office) until maybe 20 weeks, so the doc may well have to do an ultrasound every visit for the first months just to check the fetal heartbeat. 

[Driad]

Quote

Young Randall is such a gem. I cracked up at "Did Grandma shoot MLK?!" but I really liked when Grandma said he was a pretty special kid and he softly said "Took you long enough." Yes sweetie. It did.

I winced at that. At that time, did "special" mean a kid who should be in a "special" class? Not that Grandma is likely to be up on what kids know.

[bybrandy]

10 hours ago, Jillybean said:

His initial reaction as shown in the preview didn't seem very enthusiastic -- but I'm sure he'll get over it moments later and be even more solicitous and viligant about Kate's health.

I think he'll get on board big gesture style that Kate will find when she encounters him immediately after a miscarriage.    Hope I'm wrong, though.  I never enjoy miscarriage storylines.  

I think the "connecting' really was about them not connecting.  As Kate pointed out they'd had sex a couple of days ago.   Which Toby countered with her referencing her fit bit.   So clearly his worry was about the quality not the quantity of their sex life.   They really weren't connecting in a true sense of the word.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

They really weren't connecting in a true sense of the word.

Well, their heads must be four feet apart at least, with all the fat suits, etc. 

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.