Season 5 Discussion

[brillia79]

7 hours ago, Lemons said:

I thought andrei said something about not wanting her out alone at 4 am after being in a club. Most men are scared to think of their wives getting hurt when out alone late at night. We aren't talking about the grocery store at 9 pm.   Plus this country is known around the world for its gun violence, so that is probably on his mind also. 

Being on his mind is one thing. Telling her she can't go is another. That's not ok. She is not a child and he is not her parent.

Violence is everywhere: church, school, work, the grocery store, the mall. Will he forbid her from going to those places next?

[spankydoll]

2 hours ago, Nickieca said:

9 hours ago, Matias130 said:

very easy to find what company Chris owns....and why Annie and David owe him, and involved.

 

 

I can't find it!

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, tincansailor981 said:

I needed that laugh.  Hate to fat shame anyone cause im not so little anymore, but damn, thats a lotta woman to love.

Maybe that's why Azan can only handle 55% of her. 

[Granny58]

9 hours ago, Matias130 said:

What bewildered me was the attitude of Annie's mother, who was pretty open to having her daughter pimped out to a strange older foreigner  than herself most likely... who may or may not make Annie happy, but what only matters is that her marriage to him will provide a more comfortable life for herself and Annie's father. Just imagine that. 

as Paul Harvey used to say, it's not all one world.  

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Some of the foreigners from this season ARE volunteering and doing the things that you mentioned. We've discussed this in their individual threads. As far as actually earning money, though (like working at a mom and pop retail store) if cash exchanges hands at all then that is a big no-no and considered "working under the table." That's one way to get your adjustment of status denied, if immigration found out. Some folks could very well be doing it but no way would we, or the rest of the general public, be made aware of it. 

I'd imagine if Andrrrei was not on a reality show, he might be working off the books as a bouncer or something else during the 90 days.  

30 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

Being on his mind is one thing. Telling her she can't go is another. That's not ok. She is not a child and he is not her parent.

Violence is everywhere: church, school, work, the grocery store, the mall. Will he forbid her from going to those places next?

I don't think a husband or wife should be going out clubbing without their spouse's OK.  It is not about being a child and parent.  It is about being a husband and wife.  

[lovesnark]

7 hours ago, Saltgypsie said:

Has Nicole ever mentioned what happened with Mays dad?  

Her mom did. Nicole met a guy online, wouldn't listen to her mother and packed up and went to Texas (I think) to be with her true love. Things didn't work out and she came home pregnant. 

[CoachWristletJen]

18 hours ago, KateHearts said:

 

Josh is a gem, isn't he- for mentioning on the air once his "trophy" is in his web- that he has "fertility issues to work out."  I cannot imagine thinking I've won/earned a ticket to the Land of Opportunity only to find that the person who is bringing me there is living like a frat boy, doesn't deliver on his promises of "everything I want", can't father the child I so clearly want (oops! Forgot that part) and is barely making ends meet.  (One can insert Jorge and David Poor here as well).  And David?  "I have no house, no job, no money and no personality.  I am giving Annie's parents two water buffalo and a bunch of borrowed money so I can bring her to America and TAKE CARE OF HER."  Now that sure doesn't make nonsense.

Either he's already had a vasectomy or his ex-wife's new boyfriend kicked him in the nuts in the parking lot behind Wendy's. 

Both roads lead to Rome, so to speak.

[sconstant]

10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

The interaction that gave me the most concern was when Kensley asked nicely, including saying please which young kids can sometimes forget, to be let out of the swing and he made her ask repeatedly. She was trapped and at his mercy to get out and he seemed to delight in his power over her; it was a creepy asshole move and he clearly was doing it intentionally. 

Cosigned.  And the earlier sassy (paraphrasing) "here in America we push swings from behind" came after she tried in other ways to explain to him what she wanted him to do.  Ugh.

[CoachWristletJen]

2 minutes ago, sconstant said:

Cosigned.  And the earlier sassy (paraphrasing) "here in America we push swings from behind" came after she tried in other ways to explain to him what she wanted him to do.  Ugh.

The guy has a complete disregard for her wants and needs. Actually, he seems to know what she wants, but he enjoys ignoring it. 

With a child that young, I would call his behavior sadistic.

Sorry, but the guy ain't right.

In the beginning, I had empathy for him and his deer-in-the-headlights look, but not anymore, obviously.

Edited November 21, 2017 by CoachWristletJen

[Forum member]

I don't feel bad for Annie. She has bled David Poor dry. Let me also say I don't feel bad for him,either. In the boat ride scene she was bitching the he was 48 with no emergency money set aside and no job. He calmly explained how he had money and a job then he got divorced, got sick, lost his business, etc. She said that's all in the past, you have to look to the future. She didn't care that she found him a few years too late.

I also noticed she made him pay full retail for the pair of buffalo. Didn't make an offer, just said pay the man.

[wovenloaf]

Ugh, Father and Brother Elizabeth standing there guffawing like a couple of buffoons about "Why would you ever go to Moldova, unless you're marrying the king of Moldova?"  Well yeah, I mean - you can always come to Tampa and be told what to do by these fat fucks instead!  American dream right here, baby! 

[Pepper Mostly]

10 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I always hear Reba McIntyre's song Fancy in my head when I think of Annie saying good bye to her mother.

Oh geez, I'm old. I think of Bobbie Gentry of "Ode to Billie Joe" fame singing that song. It was on the radio in 1970. She also composed it. Fun fact!

 

9 hours ago, brillia79 said:

Going from Chris and Nicky's house in LA (or LA adjacent) to a pull-out sofa in his daughter's apartment in Kentucky will be a rude awakening.

But maybe she will end up in Miami when she leaves Bahtman. I'm convinced this show owns a Melrose Place style apartment building for runaway cast members there.

This would be my fondest wish come true! A safe house for the runaway brides of 90 Day Fiance, after they've chewed through the restraints and fled across the trackless wastes of Kentucky or Missouri or Ohio clad only in their nightgowns, hope and desperation battling equally in their hearts.

2 minutes ago, wovenloaf said:

Ugh, Father and Brother Elizabeth standing there guffawing like a couple of buffoons about "Why would you ever go to Moldova, unless you're marrying the king of Moldova?"  Well yeah, I mean - you can always come to Tampa and be told what to do by these fat fucks instead!  American dream right here, baby! 

They were so utterly repellent I would have been rigid with mortification in Elizabeth's shoes. And really? "Was it part of the USSR?" The USSR broke up in 1991. Please do go on and dazzle me with your knowledge of international affairs, Cletus and Jed.

[brillia79]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I'd imagine if Andrrrei was not on a reality show, he might be working off the books as a bouncer or something else during the 90 days.  

I don't think a husband or wife should be going out clubbing without their spouse's OK.  It is not about being a child and parent.  It is about being a husband and wife.  

Husbands and wives occasionally do things separately. Even going to clubs or going drinking with friends. It's fine.

People make the titles husband and wife sound like a prison sentence. And sometimes, spouses use "concern" to isolate and control.

What exactly do people think goes on at clubs? We're talking about regular old nightclubs, not swingers clubs, right?

[essexjan]

I just watched this and I'm commenting without having read any of this thread, as I'm *ahem* working from home *ahem* and have already wasted too much of the day on this. But here's my take.

Andrei/Elizabeth.  Of all the fiances, he looks like the only one who will make something of himself once he's able to work. He has too much pride to allow himself to be kept by either his wife or her parents. He was doing door work in Ireland (how'd that work out with that temper, I wonder?), and I could see him doing construction or something physical, as he looks strong and fit. Anyway, I don't think he'll be the type to not work, he seems driven and keen to make a life with her. They are an odd match, but do seem genuinely to love one another.

Evelyn/David  This is such a toxic, passive/aggressive relationship based on:

(a) her desire to find a Ken Doll to stand next to her at the dream wedding she's been planning since she was 7 years old - it didn't really matter to her who, as long as he looks the part;. She's not actually thought about the marriage that follows.

(b) trying to promote her 'music career' via the free publicity of TLC. If she'd done five minutes of research, she'd have found this forum, Reddit, etc, and realised that she'd simply be ripped apart. But she's so narcissistic and self-centred that she's convinced she's brilliant.

(c) his desire to get to America, and in particular a big city in a warm climate. But he had no idea until she was in her home environment that she's a psycho spoiled brat who has to have her own way all the time. And he's (probably) a spoiled mummy's boy bully who's also used to getting his own way too.

Absolute bloody train wreck. I've seen nothing between them to suggest they love each other, or even like one another all that much.

David/Annie You knew what you were getting into, girl. A fat old man with a drink problem and without a pot to piss in. There's a price to pay for that green card, and for you it'll be a high one.

Molly/Luis  As she said, she's made bad choices in relationships. Nothing has changed. I think she's sad and lonely and a little bit damaged by her past, and is keen to prove to the world (or the small town she lives in where everybody knows her) that Someone Loves Her, so she has to have this wedding, even though the marriage will end in heartbreak for her.

Nicole/Azan Again, they both know what they're getting into. She will never change. If she wanted to eat healthily and exercise, she'd do it for herself. Although Nicole said she wants to be healthy, she also doesn't want to give up eating fast food and start eating salads. Him pushing her to do it will only make her more entrenched.  I think these two both know they have little in common and don't love one another. They both need to walk away with dignity. But as this is Nicole and Azan on TLC, that's never going to happen and we'll continue to have a front-row seat to the show.

Josh/Aika So, this is what I think happened. Ugly guy, punching way above his weight, promises hot woman the earth if she'll sleep with him. She's willing to go along because she thinks he's loaded. They each made (in Judge Judy's words) a "bad bargain". Now she's realised he can't fulfill those promises ("Yeah baby, I'll buy you a Porsche ... oh yeah, baby, just keep doing that ...") and he's been told in no uncertain terms that, without money, the only thing she has in America is him, and, clearly, that is insufficient.

Notwithstanding that the scene in the jewellery store was a total TLC set-up, her materialism is vile. The way she said to him that "all I have is you" with such contempt made me sick. If she truly loved him, it wouldn't matter that he couldn't buy her stuff, but from her side of things, he's not kept to his side of the contract. This will not end well. Pass the popcorn.

[Ki-in]

You could have knocked me over with a feather when Azan said the HE was changing May's diapers!!!! WTF!! He is NOT her father, he is NOT her stepfather, he is NOT even a long term boyfriend who May feels bonded with as a father figure but merely a dude this child has just met and Nicole really doesn't "know" him. Do I think Azan is a creepy perv? No,I don't but I feel he's being run roughshod over  by bulldozer Nicole who is a lazy beast. There is no reason to be sleeping until 2/3/4 in the afternoon, they've been there a month so jet lag is not a viable excuse. Azan said sleeps until, not takes a nap everyday with May. She is as lazy as they come and not interested in her child in the least, except to use her to guilt trip Azan by crying about how hard it is. She chose to be a mother and choices have consequences and the consequence of being a parent is you can't party at will like a singleton, sorry, that's life. He can't go out for coffee but she can go out to a club, take her ring off and be hanging out with a guy after she admitted to cheating (I'm doubtful of this and think she just lies to make him jealous). Run Azan, run far, run fast, we won't blame you and don't let her use May to guilt trip you!

I feel badly for Aika, 36 is getting up there fertility wise to be just starting talks about having a family.  I have a friend that reminds me of Aika, dressed the same , had fun dating and rejecting the boring stable guys who wanted something more while pursuing unattainable losers and then when she hit that age BAM! She was desperately baby crazy but all the good guys were taken and all that was left were Joshes. 

[Normades]

I thought it was rich when Josh said something to the effect of feeling like he's being used for money.  Welcome to reality, Josh.  You're using Aika for her looks.  It's an arrangement, but it seems as if the women get grief as being gold diggers, when shallow men are doing the same thing with regard to women's appearances.  I didn't care much for Anka and Jorge last season, but she definitely called it straight.  It's a transaction and neither Josh nor Jorge would be with those women if they weren't attractive.

For the record, it would take more than a 2 carat diamond and a porsche for me to put up with Josh!!!!

[Granny58]

47 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't think a husband or wife should be going out clubbing without their spouse's OK.  It is not about being a child and parent.  It is about being a husband and wife.  

Husbands and wives occasionally do things separately. Even going to clubs or going drinking with friends. It's fine.

[Former Nun]

16 minutes ago, Normades said:

For the record, it would take more than a 2 carat diamond and a porsche for me to put up with Josh!!!!

Yeah, Normades.  I can't think of ANYTHING that would push me into the slime of Josh.  He's lowlife from attitude to appearance...and he'll drag all his women down-down-down.

1 hour ago, essexjan said:

"Yeah baby, I'll buy you a Porsche ... oh yeah, baby, just keep doing that ...

This is too funny...and too real, essexjam.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Former Nun

[Former Nun]

1 hour ago, Pepper Mostly said:

This would be my fondest wish come true! A safe house for the runaway brides of 90 Day Fiance, after they've chewed through the restraints and fled across the trackless wastes of Kentucky or Missouri or Ohio clad only in their nightgowns, hope and desperation battling equally in their hearts.

You should pitch this show idea, Pepper Mostly.  Sounds like a few steps up from what we're watching.

[ALittleShelfish]

Just now, Former Nun said:

You should pitch this show idea, Pepper Mostly.  Sounds like a few steps up from what we're watching.

but not to TLC because we all know what a shitshow they'll turn it into, probably along the lines of a Bad Girls Club and no one wants that. 

[Tuneful]

12 hours ago, Matias130 said:

Elizabeth may pretend she hates it, but I think she really loves Andrei's he-man macho ways...Andrei however is definitely the man...." 

Yes, it was strange in this day and age to have a meeting with only the males in the family. (Which, BTW, took place in some VERY loud casual restaurant with no ambiance, who chose that? And it seems they spent something like 10 minutes there, unless there was more that was edited out?) I bet Andrrrrrei instructed her to. How about her proclaiming "The man is the head of the household." - ?

I did like his being strong enough that when her Dad basically said, basically, "If you don't do it my way, the gravy train stops," Andrei said, "OK. We don't need anyone else." And how about her saying up front, "The man is the head of the household?" These changes must be something of a shock to Princess Libby. Someone will have to pay for that nice apartment. But I fear she may to have her hands full with him and their situation once the pink cloud wears off a bit--and they're both hard-headed, apparently. 

[Tuneful]

12 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I always hear Reba McIntyre's song Fancy in my head when I think of Annie saying good bye to her mother.

That was really sad although I found it a bit hard to read her Mom's feelings--she has said over and over that it is best for Annie's parents and family, and she and Dad did gouge David Pour to the extent they could. Maybe this is the best outcome she could picture for her daughter, who it wouldn't surprise me had to do very undesirable work (euphemism) before. Most of us are probably removed from those times when our immigrant ancestors had to say goodbye to their families and set off for parts unknown and/or make marriages they didn't want, just to survive.

Annie knows she is not welcome in that LA home (I felt Nikki has given all kinds of nonverbal cues--but it is on Nikki if she did not put a time limit on it) and that Chris is skeezy. What are they doing in LA, anyway? I bet Chris is trying to remake himself in some kind of media capacity. The upcoming weeks and months make me feel sick to my stomach for Annie.  Mean of them to spring that party on Annie and interrogate her right after the travel.  It's really rude, for example, to come right out and say, "Are you going to have kids?" Not to mention setting up the gross response from David, "I try every night." He is a wimp, and a toady. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Tuneful

[Sugar]

I'm Polish, so Andrei's stoicism and stubborn male pride reminds me of every dude in my family, including my dad. The thing is re: control, that it's usually said in kind of a jokey way. Like, my dad will say to me "no way you're going to Mexico by yourself, I won't allow it" (hi, I'm 32 years old), but 20 min later he'll help me pack and slip me some money and tell me to have a good time. The scene where Andrei was telling Elizabeth he didn't want her going out, it reminded me so much of the bravado that my dad and grandfather put up to almost "save face" and remind everyone they're in charge, but in actuality, they're very level-headed and rational and easy to talk down. I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right, but Andrei's behavior reminds me very much of typical Eastern European men, who might be quick to say "not on my watch", but all it takes is a tiny nudge to change their mind. I don't get the genuinely controlling vibes that others have accused him of - not based on what we've seen so far. I think he might need to work on being more flexible, but I don't think he's malicious towards Elizabeth. Also, let's not forget that the "controlling" narrative was started by ELizabeth; I wouldn't be surprised if TLC wanted her to focus on that, to create more drama for their story line, which is pretty boring otherwise.

I'm actually kind of shocked by some of the accusations being hurled at some of these folks. Luis is a pedophile, Andrei is an oppressive caveman, David kills people and wraps them in garbage bags, etc. I mean really - these people are highly flawed, but watching them on a strategically edited reality show does not mean we get enough information to be able to make such statements. It makes me very uncomfortable that the snark has gone from lighthearted bitching to straight up accusing someone of criminal activity.

Also, re: Annie. I live in Thailand, and no - it's not possible to just move to a big city and find an office job and move in with some girlfriends. Thais have a status system (and caste), and if you're a poor farmer's daughter from a small village, you have zero legitimate prospects. You can continue to farm, or you can become a bar girl, and that's about it. I would be very surprised if Annie even has a high school education; in most of the families I knew with backgrounds similar to Annie's, the kids were taken out of school at around 12 or 13 to help with the workload. Even working at a Starbucks or KFC - it's a somewhat coveted job because it's guaranteed wages, and the university kids in my city say it's competitive to work in fast food or hospitality. Actually, the only other option Annie would have is if she moved from her village to a tourist city or one of the islands and found work at a resort, either as a maid or server, in which case she'd get to share a tiny room with several other girls, work 10-12 hours, and make around $25-30 a day. If you're not wanting to spread your legs for some old white foreigner, this is the other path that's available. It's hard work, and it's sad because workers don't get to go home to visit their families very often, and marriage prospects are almost non-existent unless the family sets up a match for you. Yes, in a sense Annie chose David and the life that goes along with him, but in another sense, she really had very limited options available to her, especially if her primary concern is to care and provide for her family.

What I am more saddened by, is that so many developing countries have this very distorted view of what life in The West (America, Canada, UK, etc.) is like. They think all westerners have mansionettes and pools in their backyard, and we all drive convertibles and have good health care plans, and can afford braces for our children. They've totally bought into the "American Dream", and don't realize there are folks like David Poor and Josh and the millions of other low to middle-class residents who may be rich by their standards, but are actually struggling to get by. I'll never forget when I was Cambodia, and met a woman who was absolutely shocked to learn that my fiance and I didn't own a home because we couldn't afford it (native Torontonian, so prices are insane), and that we were traveling on a backpacker's budget and could only afford 2-3 star hotels. When I told her "we don't have money, we're on a budget" she refused to believe it.
I'm sure so many of these women think that marriage to an American = easy, breezy, beautiful living where they don't have to work, and everything they want is handed to them. And I don't know that the men really do anything to dissuade that fantasy. I find that very sad; to give up everything and be sold on the "dream" and then come crashing down into disappointment.

 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, brillia79 said:

Husbands and wives occasionally do things separately. Even going to clubs or going drinking with friends. It's fine.

People make the titles husband and wife sound like a prison sentence. And sometimes, spouses use "concern" to isolate and control.

What exactly do people think goes on at clubs? We're talking about regular old nightclubs, not swingers clubs, right?

If it is OK with the spouse, fine.  But, I don't think anyone who has chosen to get married has a right to stay out all night at a club without their spouse getting upset.  A spouse shouldn't be stopping the other from doing most things, but staying out all night clubbing is just not something I think a spouse should be forced to tolerate.  

Edited November 21, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Tuneful]

16 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If it is OK with the spouse, fine.  But, I don't think anyone who has chosen to get married has a right to stay out all night at a club without their spouse getting upset.  

Yep...and Andrei has worked the club scene firsthand (and if he likes to drink, that's pretty convenient). I think Libby should compromise by going out to lunch or dinner with her sisters and gal pals, and I'm not talking every week. However, since money's going to be so tight, she may have to come up with some other ideas. Somehow I feel that going to Moldova will move up the list.  Costs a lot to just live in America (and Dublin for that matter), which means working unless you have a trust fund, are on disability (little $, usually), or can live off a family member, and he's not working (unless he works under the table--I'm sure he would not want to get caught, at least for visa and/or reentry purposes). His temper and his drinking habits may be real concerns WRT his ability to keep a job. Maybe he plans to buy his own truck and not work for anyone else. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Tuneful

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, essexjan said:

I just watched this and I'm commenting without having read any of this thread, as I'm *ahem* working from home *ahem* and have already wasted too much of the day on this. But here's my take.

Andrei/Elizabeth.  Of all the fiances, he looks like the only one who will make something of himself once he's able to work. He has too much pride to allow himself to be kept by either his wife or her parents. He was doing door work in Ireland (how'd that work out with that temper, I wonder?), and I could see him doing construction or something physical, as he looks strong and fit. Anyway, I don't think he'll be the type to not work, he seems driven and keen to make a life with her. They are an odd match, but do seem genuinely to love one another.

Evelyn/David  This is such a toxic, passive/aggressive relationship based on:

(a) her desire to find a Ken Doll to stand next to her at the dream wedding she's been planning since she was 7 years old - it didn't really matter to her who, as long as he looks the part;. She's not actually thought about the marriage that follows.

(b) trying to promote her 'music career' via the free publicity of TLC. If she'd done five minutes of research, she'd have found this forum, Reddit, etc, and realised that she'd simply be ripped apart. But she's so narcissistic and self-centred that she's convinced she's brilliant.

(c) his desire to get to America, and in particular a big city in a warm climate. But he had no idea until she was in her home environment that she's a psycho spoiled brat who has to have her own way all the time. And he's (probably) a spoiled mummy's boy bully who's also used to getting his own way too.

Absolute bloody train wreck. I've seen nothing between them to suggest they love each other, or even like one another all that much.

David/Annie You knew what you were getting into, girl. A fat old man with a drink problem and without a pot to piss in. There's a price to pay for that green card, and for you it'll be a high one.

Molly/Luis  As she said, she's made bad choices in relationships. Nothing has changed. I think she's sad and lonely and a little bit damaged by her past, and is keen to prove to the world (or the small town she lives in where everybody knows her) that Someone Loves Her, so she has to have this wedding, even though the marriage will end in heartbreak for her.

Nicole/Azan Again, they both know what they're getting into. She will never change. If she wanted to eat healthily and exercise, she'd do it for herself. Although Nicole said she wants to be healthy, she also doesn't want to give up eating fast food and start eating salads. Him pushing her to do it will only make her more entrenched.  I think these two both know they have little in common and don't love one another. They both need to walk away with dignity. But as this is Nicole and Azan on TLC, that's never going to happen and we'll continue to have a front-row seat to the show.

Josh/Aika So, this is what I think happened. Ugly guy, punching way above his weight, promises hot woman the earth if she'll sleep with him. She's willing to go along because she thinks he's loaded. They each made (in Judge Judy's words) a "bad bargain". Now she's realised he can't fulfill those promises ("Yeah baby, I'll buy you a Porsche ... oh yeah, baby, just keep doing that ...") and he's been told in no uncertain terms that, without money, the only thing she has in America is him, and, clearly, that is insufficient.

Notwithstanding that the scene in the jewellery store was a total TLC set-up, her materialism is vile. The way she said to him that "all I have is you" with such contempt made me sick. If she truly loved him, it wouldn't matter that he couldn't buy her stuff, but from her side of things, he's not kept to his side of the contract. This will not end well. Pass the popcorn.

I pretty much agree with everything said above.  I think David Spain and Elizabeth MIGHT have something a bit better than how you described it.  Both of them are fighting to get their way on some things, but I don't consider that passive aggressive.  They are openly discussing their differences, not scheming behind one another's backs to get what they want.  

[Vanderboom]

15 minutes ago, Sugar said:

I'm actually kind of shocked by some of the accusations being hurled at some of these folks. Luis is a pedophile, Andrei is an oppressive caveman, David kills people and wraps them in garbage bags, etc. I mean really - these people are highly flawed, but watching them on a strategically edited reality show does not mean we get enough information to be able to make such statements. It makes me very uncomfortable that the snark has gone from lighthearted bitching to straight up accusing someone of criminal activity.

I agree. I've fallen into that trap before. I think that because we tend to feel like we "know" these people, we feel comfortable acting as experts on them. That said, it IS creepy that David Spain is marrying a(n annoying) teenager whose bathing suit pics he found online. It IS weird that Luis has to be asked repeatedly to stop making Molly's kids uncomfortable. David Poor also seems to be a train wreck. However, as you pointed out, we only really know what we're shown by producers who have an interest in making these people look as terrible as possible. It's good to keep in mind as we armchair snark.

The garbage bag thing, though? Totally true ;-)

[gonecrackers]

First up, I like Andrei, & think he's basically a decent, hard working guy who actually cares about his fiance, who is happily trying to demonize him to everyone, including the viewing public. (Opinions, as always, subject to change).

That said, I think the meeting with Elizabeth's family was heavily manufactured to fit her narrative. Whatever kind of 'acting' she's trying to do makes her out to be an immature snot, with the ugly faces she makes (made worse by that awful lipstick), & them constantly re-playing her head shaking at Andrei, who, if she REALLY doesn't like his ways, is not suited to her, at all. But I feel it's their story line, & a bad one at that.

Also, if she's truly working part time for daddy, she's not "independent" & should not call herself such. I wonder if her big, bad, nasty to her poor fiance daddy (again acted out, badly) paid the bills for all of Miss Independent's trips abroad, but let's give him the shithead edit. Now comes the daddy 'cut off'  - oh SO NOT FAIR! (stomps foot & has big pink lip pout). Miss Independent may have to give up her 'expensive' wedding ideals, grow up, earn her own way (possibly off TV?), & learn to live with what she can afford.

Again, I feel it's contrived but I find Libby very irritating so my claws are out... & whew, now I feel better.

[Boofish]

Nicole is completely awful but I can't believe Azan is not being put on the same slime scale as Luis. They are both using overweight women with obvious self worth and esteem issues to get to America for a better life. Azan just seems like the better con man. Each of the K1 Visa individuals attitudes and behaviors are a direct reflection of their needs and current situation

Annie, Azan, Luis are all a bit quite and submissive because the NEED to live in the U.S. They left nothing and have nothing to go back to; Azan and Luis come across as lazy users.

Aika, Andreiiiiiiiiii and David seem educated and content. They just HAPPEN to fall in love with someone in the U.S. but I get the feeling if it don't work out they have something to go back to and life will eventually get back to normal so they do not and will not put up with the  B.S. 

[Stripper Glitter]

13 hours ago, tincansailor981 said:

I needed that laugh.  Hate to fat shame anyone cause im not so little anymore, but damn, thats a lotta woman to love.

As a fat girl (but losing, yaaay low carb!) the beached whale remark stings. Kinda takes me back to being teased in school. JS. I know the OP doesn't know me and wasn't referring to *me*. 

Anyway, also as a fat girl - there is much Nicole could do to make herself more attractive. The size disparity in partners is kind of daunting from my perspective. But, things usually work out. I just think Nicole could try a little harder with the superficial stuff, like hair, makeup, clothing, whatever. But let's be honest. Most of the issue is with her personality vs her appearance. She needs to familiarize herself with his culture etc just as has been said here many times. All of that would go far to making her more attractive to him, even if she's "big a little bit".

19 hours ago, AmyBre said:

Luis and Brother Molly give me a gay vibe.....

Nah. I'm not attracted to either one, they're not gay LOL

[Pepper Mostly]

15 minutes ago, Stripper Glitter said:

I just think Nicole could try a little harder with the superficial stuff, like hair, makeup, clothing, whatever. But let's be honest. Most of the issue is with her personality vs her appearance. She needs to familiarize herself with his culture etc just as has been said here many times. All of that would go far to making her more attractive to him, even if she's "big a little bit".

She has a pretty face, nice blonde hair, blue eyes and peaches and cream skin. She dresses in a very unflattering way, though; and of course her horrible personality does nothing to make her more attractive. Molly, for all her occasional veering off into teeny bopper land with her personal style, at least wears attractive, stylish clothes that fit her. She'd never be caught dead in those frumpy jeans of Nicole's.

[Mr. Miner]

I know Annie knows what she's getting into, but David is one sorry, sad sack of shit. I can't help but feel sorry for her. It looks like Nikki's brother threatens to kick his ass next week. lol! 

[Normades]

1 hour ago, Sugar said:

I'm Polish, so Andrei's stoicism and stubborn male pride reminds me of every dude in my family, including my dad. The thing is re: control, that it's usually said in kind of a jokey way. Like, my dad will say to me "no way you're going to Mexico by yourself, I won't allow it" (hi, I'm 32 years old), but 20 min later he'll help me pack and slip me some money and tell me to have a good time. The scene where Andrei was telling Elizabeth he didn't want her going out, it reminded me so much of the bravado that my dad and grandfather put up to almost "save face" and remind everyone they're in charge, but in actuality, they're very level-headed and rational and easy to talk down. I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right, but Andrei's behavior reminds me very much of typical Eastern European men, who might be quick to say "not on my watch", but all it takes is a tiny nudge to change their mind. I don't get the genuinely controlling vibes that others have accused him of - not based on what we've seen so far. I think he might need to work on being more flexible, but I don't think he's malicious towards Elizabeth. Also, let's not forget that the "controlling" narrative was started by ELizabeth; I wouldn't be surprised if TLC wanted her to focus on that, to create more drama for their story line, which is pretty boring otherwise.

I agree.  I'm married to a Ukrainian and have experienced the same thing.  He can be loud and straightforward, but he can be a teddy bear.  I believe in any relationship you must negotiate certain things.  Some couples have no issue with going to clubs, etc on their own.  Others do.  This is why marriage is WORK.  Just because Andrei doesn't want Libby hanging out in clubs doesn't mean he is a controlling thug.

Funny thing, I live not that far from where Libby is and 30 years ago when I got married very few people around me had even heard of the Ukraine.  I also experienced some not nice things being said by a few ignorant people because this was before the collapse of the USSR.  Libby's father and brother reminded of those days.

[Stripper Glitter]

18 hours ago, spankydoll said:

Are those the LuLu LaRue pants that I see on FB all of the time? I think that they are plus size gear because my zaftig friends all seem to have purchased a franchise.

 

I bought a pair of the LLR "tall & curvy" leggings. If Nicole is squeezing her zaftig butt into those, start praying now because those seams are at critical mass. I couldn't even get them past my knees! Of course she is inverted triangle shape and I am apple so maybe that's a possible difference in fitting. But even so I just don't think she could wear the leggings. Maybe a dress or top, the sizing varies a lot between items marked the same size. Some 3x tops are enormous, others are not, for instance.

[AZChristian]

I have tried really hard to NOT accuse Luis of improper behavior (other than being clueless).  

HOWEVER, anyone who is 24 and has nieces and nephews - anywhere in the world - should know better than to make inappropriate comments to a minor, and ESPECIALLY should know not to touch (or even appear to touch) a little girl's private areas.  I don't have the episode on DVD so I can't check it, but I did not see him just put her into the swing and inadvertently touch that area.  He appeared TO ME to be returning to that spot more than once when pushing the swing.  WHO PUSHES A SWING FROM THE FRONT?  Surely they had swings in the DR, and everyone knows that the best way to push is from the back.  

I cannot be objective.  I was molested for 12 years as a child.  Molesters love to be sneaky and get away with as much as they can.  My molester loved to press his knee up against me under the dining room table; if I moved my leg, he would stretch farther to continue.  Luis may have been totally innocent, but it made the hair on the back of my neck go up to watch him with Olivia in the swing.  If he doesn't know how to interact appropriately with minors better, someone needs to teach him.  Right now.

[brillia79]

2 hours ago, Granny58 said:

 

And I question any spouse that insists you can't do something like go out with friends and doing things without said spouse being present that don't involve adultery. 

This is controlling. On top of demonstrating a lack of trust.

[ethalfrida]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

I have tried really hard to NOT accuse Luis of improper behavior (other than being clueless).  

HOWEVER, anyone who is 24 and has nieces and nephews - anywhere in the world - should know better than to make inappropriate comments to a minor, and ESPECIALLY should know not to touch (or even appear to touch) a little girl's private areas.  I don't have the episode on DVD so I can't check it, but I did not see him just put her into the swing and inadvertently touch that area.  He appeared TO ME to be returning to that spot more than once when pushing the swing.  WHO PUSHES A SWING FROM THE FRONT?  Surely they had swings in the DR, and everyone knows that the best way to push is from the back.  

I cannot be objective.  I was molested for 12 years as a child.  Molesters love to be sneaky and get away with as much as they can.  My molester loved to press his knee up against me under the dining room table; if I moved my leg, he would stretch farther to continue.  Luis may have been totally innocent, but it made the hair on the back of my neck go up to watch him with Olivia in the swing.  If he doesn't know how to interact appropriately with minors better, someone needs to teach him.  Right now.

So sorry that happened to you, AZ. 

How many times have we heard on the news how parents trusted someone and allowed them to interact with their children... with the kid(s) ending up molested? And how can the producers stand by and allow him to continue? And even though I like most of what I've viewed of Azan it shocked me when he said he changed May's diaper. 

[ChiCricket]

3 hours ago, essexjan said:

Evelyn/David  This is such a toxic, passive/aggressive relationship based on: <snip>

Absolute bloody train wreck. I've seen nothing between them to suggest they love each other, or even like one another all that much.

 I don't see any chemistry between them at all. Maybe because of their beliefs, they haven't even kissed yet?

(I don't know this to be true, I'm just speculating)

Edited November 21, 2017 by ChiCricket

[AZChristian]

1 minute ago, ethalfrida said:

So sorry that happened to you, AZ. 

How many times have we heard on the news how parents trusted someone and allowed them to interact with their children... with the kid(s) ending up molested? And how can the producers stand by and allow him to continue? And even though I like most of what I've viewed of Azan it shocked me when he said he changed May's diaper. 

Thanks.  I've been away from it for 54 years, and I'm still hyper-vigilant.  No apologies, either.

I wonder how there can be men on the production staff who see this and don't say something.  Are they oblivious to how this looks?  If Brother Molly won't step up and talk to Luis or Molly, any other adult should.  Can Molly really watch this stuff and NOT take action to make sure her precious daughters are safe - either from being spoken to touched inappropriately?

If I were the only person on these boards who sees the potential for danger, it would be my problem to deal with.  But many of us have expressed concern about Luis and the daughters.  Molly needs to open her eyes . . . maybe we're not wrong.  She needs to be 100% sure - not from Luis' assurances, but by talking to the girls and asking them how they feel; then she needs to respect their feelings.

[Stripper Glitter]

4 hours ago, lovesnark said:

Her mom did. Nicole met a guy online, wouldn't listen to her mother and packed up and went to Texas (I think) to be with her true love. Things didn't work out and she came home pregnant. 

Yep.

And let me tell you, I am SHOCKED that such a thing would happen with such a level-headed gal like Nicole. 

[Stripper Glitter]

3 hours ago, brillia79 said:

Husbands and wives occasionally do things separately. Even going to clubs or going drinking with friends. It's fine.

People make the titles husband and wife sound like a prison sentence. And sometimes, spouses use "concern" to isolate and control.

What exactly do people think goes on at clubs? We're talking about regular old nightclubs, not swingers clubs, right?

Word. A couple of years ago I was regularly (read: Nearly every Saturday night) going to our local casino's sports bar/night club to hang out with friends, listen to the band, and dance my ass off. My husband was totally fine with it and even dropped me off/picked me up. He trusts me, knew the friends I was with, and that I am friends with people who work there so was safe from creepers or whatever. I still go but not as much as I'd like to. All my rowdy friends have settled down (TM Hank Williams Jr.). I looooove to dance and he doesn't. I like live music, it gets too loud for him out there. We would have dinner, my friends would eventually join us, and he'd go home. 

Now admittedly we live in a smaller area than Tampa, and the "club" isn't really much of a club, however it's what we got LOL

[magemaud]

9 minutes ago, ChiCricket said:

I don't see any chemistry between them at all. Maybe because of their beliefs, they haven't even kissed yet? 

They haven't kissed? Have they taken the "Duggar Only Side Hugs Until Marriage" pledge? She looked pretty cozy sitting on his knee in the recording studio. I can totally believe Evelyn's a virgin, but it wouldn't surprise me if David is one of those "re-virginized" people who have had sex in the past but now is waiting for marriage before he'll do it again. 

[Granny58]

meh

Edited November 21, 2017 by Granny58
meh, it was nothing.

[lucy711]

I don't think we can criticize Nicole for May wearing diapers.  Plenty of two year old children do so.  Even if she had started potty training her, May would probably regress during the trip to Morocco.  The poor kid is totally off any schedule she may have.  But no way in hell would I let Azan change her diapers.  I really hope that little girl spends more time with Grandma than her mother.

As an aside, I thought it was funny that Elizabeth moved into the apartment immediately before Andrei arrived and that nothing was ready.  He hopped off the plane one day and put the bed together the next day!  Impressive!

[wovenloaf]

2 hours ago, Tuneful said:

Yep...and Andrei has worked the club scene firsthand (and if he likes to drink, that's pretty convenient). I think Libby should compromise by going out to lunch or dinner with her sisters and gal pals, and I'm not talking every week. However, since money's going to be so tight, she may have to come up with some other ideas. Somehow I feel that going to Moldova will move up the list.  Costs a lot to just live in America (and Dublin for that matter), which means working unless you have a trust fund, are on disability (little $, usually), or can live off a family member, and he's not working (unless he works under the table--I'm sure he would not want to get caught, at least for visa and/or reentry purposes). His temper and his drinking habits may be real concerns WRT his ability to keep a job. Maybe he plans to buy his own truck and not work for anyone else. 

Have we actually seen anything to suggest he does have a temper or drinking problems?  Other than just Libby claiming he gets mad easily?  The way she describes him, I was expecting something awful.  But I don't think he's been awful at all.  He kept his cool just fine with those two jackasses Brother and Father Elizabeth.  I'm not sure I would have.

[Former Nun]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If it is OK with the spouse, fine.

That's the bottom line.   Of course, "clubbing" has all kinds of definitions, innocent to nefarious.   That sweet little spouse who would never be "out all night clubbing," can get involved in plenty-o-hanky panky while the sun's shining.  

[Porkchop]

On 11/20/2017 at 8:54 AM, CofCinci said:

If I were in her shoes, I’d look forward to his death. When he dies she can take his social security surviving spouse monthly check right back to Thailand and live comfortably. 

Don't widows have to be 60 to collect Social Security on their husband's account?

[Stripper Glitter]

26 minutes ago, wovenloaf said:

Have we actually seen anything to suggest he does have a temper or drinking problems?  Other than just Libby claiming he gets mad easily?  The way she describes him, I was expecting something awful.  But I don't think he's been awful at all.  He kept his cool just fine with those two jackasses Brother and Father Elizabeth.  I'm not sure I would have.

I have been waiting, based on what she has said, but really I have seen just "a guy" who knows his own mind. He does not come across to me as violent, controlling, or even hot-headed. I think he blusters a bit, and I'm not certain how I would feel if my husband was like him, but I have zero alarms in my head about him. And like I said up-thread, I think when he smiles he looks really nice and it seems very genuine. 

[AZChristian]

10 minutes ago, Porkchop said:

Don't widows have to be 60 to collect Social Security on their husband's account?

And 60 would only give her reduced benefits.  Plus, she has to stay married to him for a year before she qualifies to collect as his widow.  If they divorce, she can't draw SS unless she was married to him for 10 years.  

[Ki-in]

IMO Elizabeth brought up the going out/bachelorette party to get Andrei riled up and jealous. He stated that a once in awhile thing was fine but to be out drinking until all hours isn't what he wants in a wife. That's why they call it settling down. Yeah, yeah, I know settling down doesn't mean you're dead but he doesn't want his wife to be dressed provocatively (very few women go out dancing in sweat pants) and out drinking until 4am on a regular basis. He said couples should do things as a couple which isn't unreasonable as long as she's not "forbidden" from the occasional girls' night.  If he was a bouncer he's seen a lot and he doesn't want them to end up like Josh and Aleksandra (Idaho/Russia). But I reiterate, she made a bigger deal of it to bring out his "dominant" side because she is totally into 50 shades of Andrei.