Season 5 Discussion

[Bridget]

26 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Nicole strikes me as an IQ of about 80 or so (Sped teacher here, given thousands of IQ tests) - 70 is the cutoff for Developmentally Delayed.  She can function but is just not bright.  Mae- we don't know enough about but if Nicole is lower IQ you can bet Mae is down that path.

Upthread, whoever said that Azan needs and or wants a girl who is thin, respects his culture and religion and can cook food that is from Moracco, well he should look around in, oh I don't know.....MORACCO?  Hells yes.  

I'm a teacher too (credentialed in K-12 & also have Mild/Mod SpEd) and I definitely agree with your assessment.

Nicole strikes me as someone who struggled greatly (in school) and still struggles (in life) with comprehension skills, time management, understanding reactions/consequences, critical thinking, logic and problem solving skills.

[Normades]

4 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Yeah, see, what I see is an adult ( a young adult) who is not afraid to throw her weight around *eyeroll* at home or with Azan. She bullies and manipulates her family into allowing her to take Mae to Morocco and in getting her father to sponsor Azan - a very significant financial undertaking. She is not afraid to burst into Azan's Aunt's house and demand to sleep with him. She disregards their customs, their routines, and starts embarrassing drama with Azan in front of his family and on the street, drama that leads to physical abuse.  He has asked her to to try to lose weight, try to be more active, try to eat better. She has made 0 effort. If all she wanted was to be loved, she would be bending over backwards to please her parents and to please Azan. She cheats on him..twice..right? She won;t even meet him half way. She would be acting more like a Darcy type to get his love if that was all she really wanted.. All I see from Nicole is a selfish, self absorbed bully who can't understand why her antics worksso well at home with her family, but not with Azan. 

Yes, if she loved him she would make an effort to understand and respect his culture.  She would also make an effort to improve her appearance.  I know weight loss is difficult and I struggle, too, but I do try.  She made no effort.  Also, would Nicole still be chasing Azan if his hair fell out and he weighed 350lbs??  I think not.  That is not love.

[CoachWristletJen]

14 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Yeah, see, what I see is an adult ( a young adult) who is not afraid to throw her weight around *eyeroll* at home or with Azan. She bullies and manipulates her family into allowing her to take Mae to Morocco and in getting her father to sponsor Azan - a very significant financial undertaking. She is not afraid to burst into Azan's Aunt's house and demand to sleep with him. She disregards their customs, their routines, and starts embarrassing drama with Azan in front of his family and on the street, drama that leads to physical abuse.  He has asked her to to try to lose weight, try to be more active, try to eat better. She has made 0 effort. If all she wanted was to be loved, she would be bending over backwards to please her parents and to please Azan. She cheats on him..twice..right? She won;t even meet him half way. She would be acting more like a Darcy type to get his love if that was all she really wanted.. All I see from Nicole is a selfish, self absorbed bully who can't understand why her antics worksso well at home with her family, but not with Azan. 

I  think Azan must have decided to take one for the team in order to get his family to the U.S. That's the only reason I can think of that he would be with her because he obviously despises her. Right before he puts her on the plane he starts telling her nice things to put a pretty picture in her head to take back with her to the U.S.  Dude, you don't need to do that. Like she isn't delusional...

I don't know what his plan is for fighting her off once he gets to the United States because she is a bully who seems to delight in throwing all that weight of hers around. She doesn't think she needs to lose it. She's figured out that she's got something that Azan wants and wants bad. U.S. Citizenship. That's enough for her. She really doesn't see why she should change. She feels fine the way she is and she can maneuver that excess fatty tissue in such a way to really make him cower. While intellect is not her strong suit, it's empathy that she lacks most, the ability to put herself into his shoes and realize that he is genuinely repulsed when he sees her coming, not just by her stature, but also by her personality. She can be greedy, selfish, and cruel. Just ask her mom. Seriously, I don't know what Azan's plan one he arrives in Florida. He doesn't seem to have it in him to fight back and if he did, she'd have the cops on his ass so fast it would make his head spin. He doesn't fully understand how things work here and he is ill equipped to fight back in every way. His coming over here is the most seriously short-sighted plan ever, on a show that has made itself notorious for its shortsighted plans.

Unlike Mohamed, Azan will get raped. And his sentence will make Danielle's house look like Club Med.

Edited December 12, 2017 by CoachWristletJen

[balisticnikki]

5 minutes ago, Normades said:

 Also, would Nicole still be chasing Azan if his hair fell out and he weighed 350lbs??  I think not.  That is not love.

No hair would be a big improvement!

[sasha206]

42 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

That's why I say Azan is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Everybody feels sorry for him but he is the one pulling all the strings and he is so insulting to Nicole who is very obviously delayed in some form or fashion. I think she's actually really trying to meet his requirements but she's just too dumb and doesn't have the drive to follow through. Diet and exercise are not easy when you have no knowledge and have never exercised before or eaten anything other than fries. So many people fail at weight loss. If it were as easy as Azan makes it seem, we'd all be models. 

Nicole wants Azan to love her and he doesn't. But I can tell she loves him and just wants him to value her as is. Maybe if he tried that, she'd become the Barbie he wants. I don't know why I feel so sorry for her but I do. Possibly because I know she's just a dumb little girl who wants to be loved and she's being taken advantage of, constantly put down, and ignored. 

I don't feel sorry for her.  She knows she is a big girl and that Azan, with his washboard abs, isn't really in her league.  The first season they were on, she was pawing at him like he was her piece of meat and wouldn't stop despite his pleas that in his religion, shows of affection are frowned upon.  She didn't care.  I feel like she's very much like any of the others who go overseas to find a mate -- they want the physical body type they can't get at home.  And then they use the "coming to America" carrot to control them.  She's blocking doorways because he won't talk to her.  She's aggressive.  When she doesn't get her way, she tells Azan she's cheated on him, not once but twice.  Then she's disappointed when he doesn't trust her?

She manipulative.  She's classless and ignorant but she's playing a game and she's fairly good at it.

I don't feel sorry for Azan although I feel sorry for anyone whose circumstances and prospects in their respective countries lead them to marry someone they are repulsed by just to get into this country.

[sasha206]

35 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

Yeah, see, what I see is an adult ( a young adult) who is not afraid to throw her weight around *eyeroll* at home or with Azan. She bullies and manipulates her family into allowing her to take Mae to Morocco and in getting her father to sponsor Azan - a very significant financial undertaking. She is not afraid to burst into Azan's Aunt's house and demand to sleep with him. She disregards their customs, their routines, and starts embarrassing drama with Azan in front of his family and on the street, drama that leads to physical abuse.  He has asked her to to try to lose weight, try to be more active, try to eat better. She has made 0 effort. If all she wanted was to be loved, she would be bending over backwards to please her parents and to please Azan. She cheats on him..twice..right? She won;t even meet him half way. She would be acting more like a Darcy type to get his love if that was all she really wanted.. All I see from Nicole is a selfish, self absorbed bully who can't understand why her antics worksso well at home with her family, but not with Azan. 

You said this much better than I did!  Agreed!

[John M]

5 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I don't feel sorry for Azan although I feel sorry for anyone whose circumstances and prospects in their respective countries lead them to marry someone they are repulsed by just to get into this country.

People keep mentioning this, Morocco is not some third-world hellhole, I mean it's not the US but Azan is bi-lingual and seems somewhat educated, unless he is LGBT (He might be) he probably could build a decent life in the country, it's not Sudan. 

[sasha206]

4 minutes ago, John M said:

People keep mentioning this, Morocco is not some third-world hellhole, I mean it's not the US but Azan is bi-lingual and seems somewhat educated, unless he is LGBT (He might be) he probably could build a decent life in the country, it's not Sudan. 

So he's going to America because he's in love with Nicole?

Morocco, as beautiful as it is with the tourism industry it has, does have a large population living under the poverty line.

https://www.fairobserver.com/world-news/poverty-morocco-world-news-sustainable-development-34540/

https://borgenproject.org/poverty-in-morocco/

So, I'm guessing that Azan does indeed want to move to the US for a better life, not because of an undying love for Nicole.

[sasha206]

14 minutes ago, John M said:

It does but Azan being educated, bilingual and somewhat worldly probably have much to worry about on that front. If you haven't noticed the US has a large population living under the poverty line too, as a upper-middle class person living in a large US city a large chunk of the US is pretty unrecognizable to me as the country I know.

No question -- there is a large portion of people living in poverty here.  But if some young stud in the U.S. was impoverished and hooked up with a foreign woman who looked and acted like Nicole and was ready to leave the country, I would question that as well.  I would assume that he must think her country offers him more than his own could.  I mean, do you really think Azan is in love with that woman?  Same could be said for Annie.  She's living in tropical paradise that has large tourism industries.  Her English is pretty good.  Yet I don't think she's coming to America for some great love of David Poor.  I think both her and Azan are holding onto the quickest person that can get them over here and they'll be divorcing them as soon as they can stay here legally.  Doesn't mean their countries are shit.  Just means they think their prospects are better or both of them have HORRENDOUS tastes in mates.

On your other comments regarding straight women in bars, I wasn't the one who commented ("straightsplained") but I do understand where you are coming from.  I've long been so annoyed with the reality stars on Bravo who treat their gay people like a cute accessory for them.   To me acceptance or tolerance doesn't equal trotting out a gay person and calling them "your gays."  

Edited December 12, 2017 by sasha206

[jj82]

Literally created an account just to respond to the whole Josh and Aida fertility clinic topic. I jumped ahead because I was so anxious to address it, so sorry if it’s been covered! I’m in a similar situation - my husband had a vasectomy in a previous marriage over a decade ago. (Key difference: he told me on our third date, we always agreed we’d work together on how to have a family, and I’ve never told him he’s less of a man while staring pointedly at his crotch.)

Its been too long for Josh to easily get the vasectomy reversed. It’s a low chance of success anyway, and the tubes etc degrade over time. You can get at remaining sperm with a TESE procedure, which is basically a biopsy of the testicle and they get partially formed sperm from the sample. You can’t really get intact sperm to inject into a woman’s uterus and hope they swim up in there - sperm right from the testes aren’t able to swim in the same way that sperm that’s gone through the whole process has. You pretty much have to do IVF because injecting the  sperm right into the egg is the only good way to get them in there. 

My heart was breaking for Aika. I’ve been at that doctors appointment and at her age with a low egg count she is not going to have an easy road. We’ve done three unsuccessful rounds of IVF and we’re done, because I’m 35 and my eggs suck.  We have a good marriage and it’s been very hard on us. They won’t make it through one round.

[Palomar]

Molly you are better than this.  It's pretty obvious it was all about the wedding for her....she found someone willing to marry her and she rolled with it and was blind to the fact that he was all wrong for her and both of them were getting married for the wrong reasons.  Yes, you are right that the real you is not the "vacation" girl with no worries in the world, but that is all of us.  Luis is WAY too immature to get married and you deserve someone who WILL fit into your lifestyle and respects you.  Some guy you meet on vacation who wants to come to America is not that guy.

Annie, seriously, how many red flags do you need?  You are too young to put up with a guy twice your age with no job, no retirement, no house and no family that respects him. (Forgot to add a guy who is an alcoholic who won't admit he has a problem and who has anger issues). You will never have the easy American life you dreamed of with this guy.  Go home and try again.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Palomar

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

Diet and exercise are not easy when you have no knowledge and have never exercised before or eaten anything other than fries. So many people fail at weight loss. If it were as easy as Azan makes it seem, we'd all be models. 

Nicole wants Azan to love her and he doesn't. But I can tell she loves him and just wants him to value her as is. Maybe if he tried that, she'd become the Barbie he wants. I don't know why I feel so sorry for her but I do. Possibly because I know she's just a dumb little girl who wants to be loved and she's being taken advantage of, constantly put down, and ignored. 

Exactly - if it were that easy we would all be thin.  These two are just a disaster - trying to change each other.  And a little girl is in the middle of it!

[Drogo]

Cut the sniping, folks.

Posts have been removed, warnings will be issued. 

[sasha206]

29 minutes ago, jj82 said:

Literally created an account just to respond to the whole Josh and Aida fertility clinic topic. I jumped ahead because I was so anxious to address it, so sorry if it’s been covered! I’m in a similar situation - my husband had a vasectomy in a previous marriage over a decade ago. (Key difference: he told me on our third date, we always agreed we’d work together on how to have a family, and I’ve never told him he’s less of a man while staring pointedly at his crotch.)

Its been too long for Josh to easily get the vasectomy reversed. It’s a low chance of success anyway, and the tubes etc degrade over time. You can get at remaining sperm with a TESE procedure, which is basically a biopsy of the testicle and they get partially formed sperm from the sample. You can’t really get intact sperm to inject into a woman’s uterus and hope they swim up in there - sperm right from the testes aren’t able to swim in the same way that sperm that’s gone through the whole process has. You pretty much have to do IVF because injecting the  sperm right into the egg is the only good way to get them in there. 

My heart was breaking for Aika. I’ve been at that doctors appointment and at her age with a low egg count she is not going to have an easy road. We’ve done three unsuccessful rounds of IVF and we’re done, because I’m 35 and my eggs suck.  We have a good marriage and it’s been very hard on us. They won’t make it through one round.

I've been there myself with fertility treatments so I understand where you are coming from (did IVF 3 times).  I now have a 15 year-old daughter!  For me, it happened through adoption but I know lots of couples who ended up getting pregnant with sustainable pregnancies; some on their first try, others on their 2nd and 3rd.    Eventually it will happen for you!  Big hugs and warm wishes to you.

[DangerousMinds]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:25 AM, millennium said:

I suspect that's where I'm headed because I thought the scenes with Luis were hilarious.   Having shed all pretense of giving a shit, he was free to give Molly exactly what she deserves for picking up a bartender 15 years her junior in the Dominican Republic and bringing him back to the States like a souvenir to be her indentured servant.   The Exorcist chat was priceless.   Luis is crazy like a fox.   I loved it when Molly asked "will you be going home before or after the wedding?," and Luis smiles and says "Yes."   

All Molly cares about is having a live-in babysitter and fuck toy.   Molly couldn't even go out to dinner with him without trying to turn it into a positive reinforcement conditioning session.  "Maybe we can do fun things like this with the girls?   Have more fun with the girls.   Go to the park with the girls."   She has zero empathy for the fact that Luis is 25, freshly ripped from a life of freewheeling independence, and stranded far from home.    And that maybe the last thing on his mind is a lifetime of babysitting.

Nope, no tears for Molly.   I think she's a calculating drama queen.   Did she purposely remove all her makeup to look more pathetic before instructing the ass-cam to follow her up the stairs?

(During the Aika segment I amused myself by superimposing Molly on the fertility specialist: "The problem is your AIGS!")

Worse character of the night:  David Poor.

That selfish, drunken, parasitic bastard.   He left his kids behind, not giving a rat's ass about their lives, then reappears a few years later expecting the same neglected kids to be jazzed about the new developments in HIS life.   Fucking narcissist.

Second worst: Aika, for making Josh feel like a eunuch.   All the taunting, abusive comments about his "manhood."   Does anyone doubt she'd have a shit fit if Josh suggested she's less of a woman because she's ten eggs short of a dozen? 

Why have empathy for him? HE is the one who proposed marriage, isn't he?

Same goes for Azan.

Edited December 12, 2017 by DangerousMinds

[Desert Rat]

On 12/11/2017 at 3:27 PM, HappyDancex2 said:

I find the storyline manipulated as you state.  While Andreiiiii might have a theoretical issue with her safety, going to mainstream clubs with her sisters or friends (if she has any) isn't unsafe.  The fact that her sisters somehow think they are on the edge of wild by going to a club with dick whistles and schlong balloons is rather....pathetic.  Woo woo

So childish. I'm old and have probably had more sex than Libby and all the sisters combined.  I'm not a fuddy-duddy, but there is nothing funny to me about the dick whistles and balloons. Just stupid, juvenile nonsense, like high school girls who have never seen an actual penis before.  

[DangerousMinds]

On 12/11/2017 at 1:27 AM, bichonblitz said:

And he doesn't even have a home of his own for Aika and baby Aika. How desperate is Aika for choosing this loser to have a kid with?

Many couples need two incomes in order to have their own home, so not being able to afford one on his own doesn't make him a loser in itself, to me. But why have a baby with someone who is already a deadbeat dad? Hope she is ready to support a child on her own.

[Emkat]

41 minutes ago, jj82 said:

 

So sorry you are going through this. I've done IVF too and it ain't fun.

[CoachWristletJen]

David was disappointed that his daughter wasn't intimidated by the cameras.

He thought things would go his way. He even dressed for the occasion. He actually wore two colors.

Did everyone see what he did there?

[sconstant]

10 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Libby's sisters kept telling her that she could never have fun again after she got married.  Yet, they were going out and having their version of fun (which doesn't reflect in any way what I consider to be fun).  So, why are they badgering her with the idea of this is the last fun she will ever have?  Also, I have read many posts throughout the season that stated that Libby enjoyed playing the sides against each other and I really saw that in this episode.  She really does like baiting the sides against each other and having both sides "fight" over her.  Yes, she craves the drama and attention.

YEEEEEES this.  There are two possibilities.  Either on that night Libby will do things she shouldn't do after she gets married, in which case she shouldn't do them while in an engaged / otherwise committed monogamous relationship.  OR on that night Libby will have a lovely girls night where nothing that Andrei is against will happen, in which case, it is not the Last Night Of Her Life (or as Luis would have it: death of her single life.)  

Since they keep saying that it's her last chance to X, I am not super offended by Andrei worrying about X and wanting to keep in touch.  

Also they are horrible people.

[HappyDancex2]

16 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

David was disappointed that his daughter wasn't intimidated by the cameras.

He thought things would go his way. He even dressed for the occasion. He actually wore two colors.

Did everyone see what he did there?

Snicker

[Normades]

34 minutes ago, sconstant said:

YEEEEEES this.  There are two possibilities.  Either on that night Libby will do things she shouldn't do after she gets married, in which case she shouldn't do them while in an engaged / otherwise committed monogamous relationship.  OR on that night Libby will have a lovely girls night where nothing that Andrei is against will happen, in which case, it is not the Last Night Of Her Life (or as Luis would have it: death of her single life.)  

Since they keep saying that it's her last chance to X, I am not suppers offended by Andrei worrying about X and wanting to keep in touch.  

Also they are horrible people.

YES!!! You put that perfectly. Libby's sisters are garbage and Andrei had every right to be upset over the whole situation. Her sister even made it clear that she was trying to bait him.

[Pepper Mostly]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I think part of the reaction people have is that immediately after that scene, Libby says that Andrrrrreeiii is "strict."  

That's the storyline Libby is selling. Uninhibited American party girl meets strict, old fashioned European guy. Oh teh noes! Can love survive? She wants a second season. Andrei's playing along because why not? I swear I see him trying to keep from laughing sometimes. 

[sasha206]

2 minutes ago, Normades said:

YES!!! You put that perfectly. Libby's sisters are garbage and Andrei had every right to be upset over the whole situation. Her sister even made it clear that she was trying to bait him.

Also didn't she tell him she was so drunk she had to be helped up?  I mean, if that's what a night out is with her sisters -- penis whistles, confiscated phones, drinking till you need help, I don't blame Andreeeeeiiii for being annoyed by the whole thing.  I mean the guy has probably seen so many drunk idiot women at these bars that leave with sketchy men.

[CoachWristletJen]

57 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

So childish. I'm old and have probably had more sex than Libby and all the sisters combined.  I'm not a fuddy-duddy, but there is nothing funny to me about the dick whistles and balloons. Just stupid, juvenile nonsense, like high school girls who have never seen an actual penis before.  

I went to one limo bridal shower a few years back. Worst mistake ever!

The bride wore a veil of plastic penises. And, the sister of the bride wound up humping a blowup doll in the middle of a Starbucks I kid you not.

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Coincidentally, Dr. Phil had a re-run today that included a couple; she was white and 34 with a 6-year-old child.  He was African-American, 20 years old, and unemployed.  Female had just lost her job, and was still deep in debt to get boy toy everything he wanted.  Dr. Phil told her flat out that she needed to work on her self-esteem and stop supporting someone other than her child.  He went on to say that if boy toy had his own place, a job, and was paying his own way, Phil wouldn't have a problem if BT picked the lady up and took her out on a date.  Then he looked at lady and said, "You're not going to change one thing, are you?"

Honestly, who thinks Luis would have spent one penny of his tip money to pay his own way to Georgia to date and marry Molly?

I hope he tells a 34-yr old man buying things for an unemployed 20-yr old woman the same thing then.

[Forum member]

[balisticnikki]

6 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Coincidentally, Dr. Phil had a re-run today that included a couple; she was white and 34 with a 6-year-old child.  He was African-American, 20 years old, and unemployed.  Female had just lost her job, and was still deep in debt to get boy toy everything he wanted.  Dr. Phil told her flat out that she needed to work on her self-esteem and stop supporting someone other than her child.  He went on to say that if boy toy had his own place, a job, and was paying his own way, Phil wouldn't have a problem if BT picked the lady up and took her out on a date.  Then he looked at lady and said, "You're not going to change one thing, are you?"

Honestly, who thinks Luis would have spent one penny of his tip money to pay his own way to Georgia to date and marry Molly?

How is this a coincidence? Or even related? Bc it's a White woman & Black man?? Really??

[AZChristian]

6 minutes ago, balisticnikki said:

How is this a coincidence? Or even related? Bc it's a White woman & Black man?? Really??

It was not my intent to be offensive, but I can see how it might be seen that way.  It just reminded me of Luis and Molly.  I was more trying to make a point about the age and culture differences.

I'm sorry.

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

I hope he tells a 34-yr old man buying things for an unemployed 20-yr old woman the same thing then.

Well, he sure told a 48-year-old woman who advertised on the sugar baby website that prostitution is prostitution, no matter what you call it or how old/young you are.  She was technically unemployed, but living off of others for no other reason than that she could, and it was easier than more traditional work.

[Desert Rat]

24 minutes ago, balisticnikki said:

How is this a coincidence? Or even related? Bc it's a White woman & Black man?? Really??

I don't get the racial thing at all.  The Dr. Phil story as told by the OP reminded me of David Poor and Josh.  Both are dead beat dads who aren't supporting their kids or even themselves, yet they are bringing women over here to satisfy their egos and sex fantasies.  I think that was the posters point.  Geesh!

[sainte-chapelle]

On 2017-12-11 at 4:37 PM, Real Eyes said:

No, they are not "fair game"  Rape is relatively rare in the former European republics of the former Soviet Union.  Sexual harassment in work situations is very common.

 

Once women marry, or are about to marry, they don't go to clubs without their husbands.  It is not about being "fair game", it's just a view of what constitutes a family life.

Wasn't necessarily referring to rape here, but men in bars tend to be extremely persistent and it can get quite nasty when alcohol is involved. I am Eastern European  and quite often hear the statement from men "why dance in the bar drunk if you don't want my attention "  but that attitude is prevalent anywhere. Andrei tends to mention concerns for her safety quite frequently, I think it is a combination of family values and safety concerns. 

[millennium]

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Why have empathy for him? HE is the one who proposed marriage, isn't he?

Same goes for Azan.

Sure, after Molly and Nicole proffered the possibility of green cards to disarm the prey.  

[Gigglepuff]

I've seen fertility doctors and honestly, I didn't think the doctor said anything wrong or startling at all, it was basically the same speel I heard and I was the same age as Aika when I went for treatments. Honestly, it's better that fertility doctors tell clients the truth as it applies to most women's biology, regarding age related fertility issues, as opposed to building false hopes. My doctor gave me tons of reading info and studies to show me what I really was up against, and at 36 time was not on my side. I was so insulted at first reading pamphlets regarding the risks of, "geriatric pregnancies," and, "advanced maternal age." 

When dealing with fertility issues, such as Josh's vasectomy and Aika's low viable egg count, IVF really is the best course of action. I think they visited an OB-GYN instead of a urologist is because there'd be no point in a vasectomy reversal if Aika didn't have a healthy reproductive system to begin with. There was nothing inaccurate or all that surprising, what she said about fertility dropping after mid-20s is 100% correct. Aika had an ultrasound which showed her overall reproductive health is good, but she has a low egg count. Not at all unusual for a 36 year old, and yes, women do loose 1000 eggs per month, not per day as the doctor said. Eggs are lost through follicles that become active but don't mature as well as simple cell death, not just ovulation, and the rate of egg death increases the older you are, so Aika could be loosing more than the 1000 a month.  There are always exceptions of course, and yes women can and do get pregnant naturally or with help after 35, even after 40, and even those miracle pregnancies that occur close to 50, but those women are either very fertile already or are exceptions. IVF has higher rates of success than A.I. but it is expensive and not easy. A friend of mine got pregnant through years of unexplained infertility on her first round at age 37, wheras I had no luck at 36-38 with three rounds of A.I. There are so many factors...another lady I knew got pregnant three times between the ages of 35 and 39, but lost each pregnancy very early on. Sad, frustrating and heartbreaking. I feel for Aika, I really do, so I'm glad the doctor was straight with her. If things do work out for her, then she'll be at least pleasantly "surprised." All that said, Josh is not a donor I'd ever choose. 

[millennium]

6 hours ago, John M said:

Gay bars are for gay people, it is literally our safe space, it's the center of queer culture and politics, we go there to be around other queer people and it is tremendously insensitive to say well I don't want to be around straight dudes so I am taking this space from you, oppressed minority who just wants to have a drink with friends and peer group without fear of being gay bashed.

No one is trying to ban straight people from gay bars but please be sensitive that as much as the no straight guys thing might be appealing to you the bar wasn't designed for you, it is the refuge of an oppressed minority group. It's one thing if you are going with queer people but for a group of straight girls to just show up at a gay bar and claim the space as their own? Do you really not see why that is insensitive?

Now as far as the bachelorette parties, that was just disgustingly inappropriate when we were not legally allowed to get married, it's a giant fuck you to have a party to celebrate getting married in a space for people that don't have that right.

 TV and movies have established the perception that gay guys are a straight girl's favorite accessory.   They're a shoulder to cry on, just a phone call away to serve as a reliable "plus one" when a date can't be found, personal fashion consultant, etc. -- the perfect sidekick.   Given that popular fantasy, straight girls may think gay guys are just standing around in their bars counting the minutes until the woo patrols start to pour in.

Your last paragraph was heartbreaking to think about.

[Gigglepuff]

5 minutes ago, millennium said:

7 hours ago, John M said:

Gay bars are for gay people, it is literally our safe space, it's the center of queer culture and politics, we go there to be around other queer people and it is tremendously insensitive to say well I don't want to be around straight dudes so I am taking this space from you, oppressed minority who just wants to have a drink with friends and peer group without fear of being gay bashed.

No one is trying to ban straight people from gay bars but please be sensitive that as much as the no straight guys thing might be appealing to you the bar wasn't designed for you, it is the refuge of an oppressed minority group. It's one thing if you are going with queer people but for a group of straight girls to just show up at a gay bar and claim the space as their own? Do you really not see why that is insensitive?

Now as far as the bachelorette parties, that was just disgustingly inappropriate when we were not legally allowed to get married, it's a giant fuck you to have a party to celebrate getting married in a space for people that don't have that right.

 TV and movies have established the perception that gay guys are a straight girl's favorite accessory.   They're a shoulder to cry on, just a phone call away to serve as a reliable "plus one" when a date can't be found, personal fashion consultant, etc. -- the perfect sidekick.   Given that popular fantasy, straight girls may think gay guys are just standing around in their bars counting the minutes until the woo patrols start to pour in.

Your last paragraph was heartbreaking to think about.

The bacholorette parties were/are the worst, especially before equity. We had equity here in Canada in 2005, but before that, it was the same crap. Straight women not getting why they weren't welcome to hold their bachlorette parties at the local gay bar so they could go laugh and shriek at drag queens and "the gays." I rarely go out to clubs anymore anyway, but when I did go to a gay bar, it was with a gay friend of mine and I knew I was there as a guest, if that makes sense. I was so embarrassed by the behaviour of some of the straight women who decided that gay bars were their personal safe space, but then were either offended at the sight of two men making out or, conversely, they would fetishize it, never mind the women (according to my friend) who would escape groping at straight clubs yet felt perfectly free to grope and grind against gay men and thought they were being cute (woo hoo girls). And guaranteed some of those types of women (not saying anyone here) were totally against equity. 

[liammaam]

23 hours ago, millennium said:

Woo woo girls are actually a thing?    For real, I sat here thinking why the fuck do they keep going "woo woo" or "woo hoo?"  

Yep!  These woo woo White girls exist in the wild, and are mostly seen around 11:30 PM drunk and dancing at gay bars, screaming woo woo at anything.

[Gigglepuff]

23 minutes ago, liammaam said:

On 12/11/2017 at 11:47 PM, millennium said:

Woo woo girls are actually a thing?    For real, I sat here thinking why the fuck do they keep going "woo woo" or "woo hoo?"  

Yep!  These woo woo White girls exist in the wild, and are mostly seen around 11:30 PM drunk and dancing at gay bars, screaming woo woo at anything.

I love the sweet irony of Libby's sister being named, "Becky." lol. 

[Sinead]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:43 PM, Cranky One said:

Don't lie, Azan. You're really thinking, "Thank God she finally left!". You're not fooling anyone. 

I swear I saw him throw up in his mouth when she asked if he was coming to the U.S., or if he was happy , shoot, I cant remember what she asked him but his face gave him away when he choked, hesitated and said "yes".

[liammaam]

9 hours ago, John M said:

Gay bars are for gay people, it is literally our safe space, it's the center of queer culture and politics, we go there to be around other queer people and it is tremendously insensitive to say well I don't want to be around straight dudes so I am taking this space from you, oppressed minority who just wants to have a drink with friends and peer group without fear of being gay bashed.

No one is trying to ban straight people from gay bars but please be sensitive that as much as the no straight guys thing might be appealing to you the bar wasn't designed for you, it is the refuge of an oppressed minority group. It's one thing if you are going with queer people but for a group of straight girls to just show up at a gay bar and claim the space as their own? Do you really not see why that is insensitive?

Now as far as the bachelorette parties, that was just disgustingly inappropriate when we were not legally allowed to get married, it's a giant fuck you to have a party to celebrate getting married in a space for people that don't have that right.

My brother is gay, and I discovered my favorite dancing place in the world because of him.  I could dance the night away with fun people, strong-ass drinks and just freaking enjoy myself without the hassle of fucking frat boys grinding their junk into me.  I was prepared to be all "NOT ALL STRAIGHT WOMEN!" on your post... until I realized I need to just STFU and listen. 

Anyways, I wanted to post and say, thank you for saying all of that, and I apologize for never really thinking of it beyond my lens as a straight white woman.  I hear you.   

[Belle0712]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:10 AM, islandgal140 said:

Since I am self-certified:

I loved every inch of Ashley's messy antics. I collected every drop of tea she spilled and drank it out of my Royal Doulton teacups with the hand-painted periwinkles. David knew WTF he was getting when he invited her to film. Hell, he was probably banking on it since this probably secured him a spot on After the 90 days (secure the bag).

Speaking of securing the bag, is it me or does Azan seem to get conciliatory, reasonable and optimistic about his love of Nicole 24 hrs before she is due to get back on a plane and go thousands of miles away from him?

Azan after he dropped Little Lotta at the airport:

Luis is a gaslighting, misogynistic, smug, greasy POS. No doubt in my mind that he will be cheating within the 1st year of marriage. Molly is a fool to marry this man after he has shown her exactly who he is. I feel sorry for her kids. She needs to learn that some men are keepers and others are vacation dack. Luis's ass should have been left in unclaimed baggage at Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport. 

That fertility doctor must have a lake house and rent is due because she was being entirely too extra during that appt. "Losing thousands of eggs a day" Girl really? Unless Aika is a walking chicken egg factory that seems impossible. On the other hand, I don't think it was wrong of her to advise Aika that her fertility has dropped dramatically and will continue to do so. Those are facts. Anecdotal evidence of how you, your grandmother or your brother's best friend's second cousin twice removed was able to get pregnant on the first try at the tender age of 47 with no medical intervention can be misleading and give a false sense of security to women who are past a certain age. No, those over 35 or even over 40 should not lose hope and should be buoyed by such stories, but I also don't want them to think that is normal, typical or even optimal. 

Josh ain't shit, but Aika lost a few points with me this episode. The doctor was wrong to put it all on Aika and ignore Josh's current complete inability to have children, but during that argument at the cafe, it was like she wasn't even at the appt and didn't hear a word the Dr. said, plus she becomes quite petulant and nasty when angry.  With her low blows and Josh's past history, this has the potential to get ugly. 

To go back to my messy bitchery: glad to have the ultimate receipt from a licensed and board certified medical professional using the latest in ultrasonic imagery that Aika is indeed a bio female. I had my doubts. 

Did Elizabeth actually say in the limo that she could now wear lipstick and heels? When was that ever forbidden? I kinda wish Andrrrreeeiii would forbid her from wearing lipstick. The colors are actually pretty but she doesn't have the mouth/face for it. 

This whole bachelorette party was a storyline to poke at Andrei's baser instincts and hopefully cause drama. Nothing else. Baby sister is getting married and all the sisters can think about is renting ugly ass limos, shaking their long backs in a Miami club? 

Andrei's excessive use of the word 'like' was starting to make my ears bleed. Please no one here, play a drinking game when he says it. You will be sure to die of alcohol poisoning. 

I'm officially bored by David and Evelyn. 

“tender age of 47” and “shaking their long backs”. listen, linda *cackles uncontrollably*

 

i want to subscribe to your newsletter.  retroactively. you are the best and have most accurately captured my thoughts on this here episode. thank u.

[Jeanne222]

9 hours ago, Bridget said:

I'm a teacher too (credentialed in K-12 & also have Mild/Mod SpEd) and I definitely agree with your assessment.

Nicole strikes me as someone who struggled greatly (in school) and still struggles (in life) with comprehension skills, time management, understanding reactions/consequences, critical thinking, logic and problem solving skills.

LAZY!  MANIPULATOR!   Not book smart but surely street smart!

She's a real Hummer!

[HappyDancex2]

9 hours ago, John M said:

Gay bars are for gay people, it is literally our safe space, it's the center of queer culture and politics, we go there to be around other queer people and it is tremendously insensitive to say well I don't want to be around straight dudes so I am taking this space from you, oppressed minority who just wants to have a drink with friends and peer group without fear of being gay bashed.

No one is trying to ban straight people from gay bars but please be sensitive that as much as the no straight guys thing might be appealing to you the bar wasn't designed for you, it is the refuge of an oppressed minority group. It's one thing if you are going with queer people but for a group of straight girls to just show up at a gay bar and claim the space as their own? Do you really not see why that is insensitive?

Now as far as the bachelorette parties, that was just disgustingly inappropriate when we were not legally allowed to get married, it's a giant fuck you to have a party to celebrate getting married in a space for people that don't have that right.

I’m glad you are here.  Not because I think you speak for all gays but now I have another perspective from the couple of gay people I know and I am happy that I can begin to see things from your vantage point.  I didn’t realize the magnitude of the safe space.  I feel like I grew up in an area that was friendly or tolerant of all so I’m probably more naive to those whose experiences are far more oppressed.  I will think twice now when I see a pack of straights taking up space in a gay bar or even as it is portrayed on TV.

 

its funny how all the penis trinkets annoy pretty much everyone yet they are a staple at bachelorette parties along with sashes and tiaras.  Or is that just TV?  

[Sienna]

10 hours ago, Granny58 said:

I get the impression that Nicole is a lazy, spoiled, manipulative bully whose intelligence is just fine...she just chooses not to do the hard work.  

I tend to agree.

I also get a huge sense of emotional immaturity that doesn't help at all; when she's asked to do anything she doesn't want to do, like lay off the PDA,  get some exercise, take care of her own kid, or eat a vegetable, she's almost gleeful in her defiance. It's more appropriate to a 'tween girl (or just plain child) during a rebellious phase than someone in her early 20s. In short, her attitude sucks.

If she spent half the effort she's wasted chasing Azan on something constructive, like getting out of the residential motel she seems to be living in, or a better job than a part time Starbucks gig, she'd probably be a lot better off.

[Kellyee]

Quote

I get the impression that Nicole is a lazy, spoiled, manipulative bully whose intelligence is just fine...she just chooses not to do the hard work. 

She figured out international online dating, Facetime, the K1 Visa process, manipulating her father into sponsoring Azan, and getting a plane ticket and presumably passport and/or Visa to go to Morocco twice. She also figured out how to lie to Azan about who she went out with just enough so that she could later claim she wasn't really lying. I have a cousin who really is slightly to moderately developmentally delayed, and there is no way she could have figured all that out by herself. Nicole is not suffering from mental delays.

I think Nicole is quite capable when she's motivated. But she's not often motivated. And I think her family both enables her and lives in fear that she'll take May and disappear. There is no reason someone her age with a child does not have a steady full time job. And to top it off, she aided in Azan getting fired (although he could have just stopped answering his phone at work) and now helps to pay his bills, while probably taking money from her parents to pay her own bills.

[calpurnia99]

Nicole is early 20's- if she just made a few changes she would lose weight. I never believed that weight loss was easier in 30's than in 50's until I turned 50. Holy shit I can go a week eating the same thing I ate when I was on a diet in my 20's- only then I would lose 5 pounds and now I gain a pound! Middle aged women, for some reason I cannot figure out the biological reason, the body wants to hold on to fat in the middle section. Women who never had belly fat, suddenly get belly fat. There are some hormones that work to keep weight around the middle- why? It can't be to protect a baby and your reproductive organs. If anyone knows the answer to this, do tell.

Nicole is not trying AT ALL to lose wieght. Wait until she is in her 40's and 50's. Not only that, time goes by, and the longer you are alive, even if you only eat 100 calories a day more than you expend, in ten years that is like 40 pounds (don't feel like doing the math) Even if you don't intentionally overeat and watch what you eat, it is easy to put on 10 pounds a decade- from 20 to 50  that is 30 pounds and you don't overeat, just have one cookie at night.  She will be 400-600 pounds when she is 55, I guarantee it. Most of us who struggle with weight at least understand what we are supposed to eat, at least attempt to get a handle on it, and then slip up by emotional eating. At least I do. I don't get up every day and say I don't give a shit, Imma eat fast food and junk food all day long cause I don't like healthy food.  This is the difference between Nicole and some of the overweight people posting here, I think. 

And some men are attracted to chubby women, Azan is not one of them! It's so odd, but I agree he must have a reason he wants to get out of Morocco.  They both keep saying "we need to try to not fight" It's soooooo stupid. Same old same old. Couples get into patterns and it is almost impossible to change the way you react in an argument without massive professional help and counseling. Just "trying" isn't going to change anything. Idiots.

[Lily247]

19 hours ago, balisticnikki said:

. I don't fully understand what Kensley's issue is but she does have special needs. 

 

Former special ed teacher here to kids on all ends of the spectrum. Just saying, I dont see any signs at all that Kensley is special needs. A little bratty, yes, but not developmentally delayed or on the spectrum. Special needs is a pretty heavy hitter term and I noticed al ot of people on this forum have labelled both Kensley and Mae as special needs from a few snips of TV time ... 

Just now, calpurnia99 said:

And some men are attracted to chubby women, Azan is not one of them! It's so odd, but I agree he must have a reason he wants to get out of Morocco.  They both keep saying "we need to try to not fight" It's soooooo stupid. Same old same old. Couples get into patterns and it is almost impossible to change the way you react in an argument without massive professional help and counseling. Just "trying" isn't going to change anything. Idiots.

3

There is a lot of poverty in Morocco, and it may have been affected by the arab spring ... Im guessing a lot of unemployment and young men feeling hopeless about building a future. On the other side though, Azan's family is shown to live in a comfortable, even beautiful home, so I would guess that he is not from a poverty stricken family. Who knows... 

[MrSmith]

17 hours ago, Cherrio said:

I would add ignorant too and include the whole family. May will be no different.

Ignorant is fixable, though. It's just a lack of knowledge and/or experience. Everyone is ignorant on topics about which they know nothing. So calling someone "ignorant" isn't much of a slam.

[mamadrama]

Y'all, I've become so obsessed with this show that I actually switched over from THE WALKING DEAD'S mid-season finale to watch it. And then I watched it again while my mom and I messaged each other about it in real time on FB.

I got problems, folks. 

[AZChristian]

4 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Y'all, I've become so obsessed with this show that I actually switched over from THE WALKING DEAD'S mid-season finale to watch it. And then I watched it again while my mom and I messaged each other about it in real time on FB.

I got problems, folks. 

We're here for you.  We're all in the same boat.  (Except I've never watched TWD.)

[MrSmith]

16 hours ago, Granny58 said:

I get the impression that Nicole is a lazy, spoiled, manipulative bully whose intelligence is just fine...she just chooses not to do the hard work.  

This is what I see with Nicole. I don't think there's anything wrong with her intelligence. She just doesn't want to do anything she perceives as "hard" or "challenging". Maybe she isn't very well educated, either, but if that's the case (and I'm not saying it is), then it's easily fixed with some schooling. I feel bad for her a little bit because she has yet to understand that life is much more enjoyable and a lot easier when you stop trying to fight the world/reality. She seems to do some of the things she does specifically because someone else (her mother, father, step-parent, friend, whoever) told her that it's not a good idea. If she'd start thinking about why these things are bad ideas, her life would improve. Of course, doing that requires maturity she does not yet possess and which she will never possess so long as she has her family to fall back on.