Season 5 Discussion

[Drogo]

I don't see a mean bone in Andrei, but Luis?  Seems like a psychological sadist. 

[MrSmith]

3 minutes ago, balisticnikki said:

I don't think Kensley's father is all that involved. Molly was photographed w. him and it looked as tho they had not seen each other in years.

As I said, it's a bad combination all around...and I'm citing the above as reasons I think the situation is especially challenging.

He may not be. However, Kensley knows who her father is and she damn well knows it isn't Luis! So when Luis comes along and says "I'm your father" or "I'm going to be your father", that's not going to get a positive reaction from Kensley and it certainly won't improve his standing in her mind.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 hours ago, MrSmith said:

I had a vasectomy 15 to 17 years ago. The body starts attacking the sperm and treating it like a foreign body (like a virus). So the sperm actually become malformed because of this. Even if Josh gets his vasectomy reversed, the defective sperm leads to a much higher incidence of birth defects. And the fact that his vasectomy is also more than five years ago, the odds of it being successfully reversed are probably in the fractions of one percent. My doctor told me when I was discussing having it done that if it isn't reversed within the first five years, you should consider it permanent because of the difficulty in reversing it and the damage done to the sperm by the body's immune system.

I think Aika's old eggs combined with Josh's autoimmune diseased, meth addled, low-end to begin with sperm, and perhaps radiation from a North Korean nuclear missile test, might cause the Zombie Apocalypse to be spawned.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[magemaud]

5 hours ago, Kellyee said:

Quote

While I was rewatching, I saw that Libby's "friend" with the stringy black extensions is named Shannon.

You watched that shit more than once? I am impressed by your stamina.

It was driving me crazy what "Cher's" real name was, so I fast forwarded through everything, also I'm a little anal...

[magemaud]

4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

If Josh and Aika were going to see about a vasectomy reversal, why did they go to a fertility clinic founded by a doctor (the one they say) who was an OB/GYN? 

Good point! If that doctor thought that she'd get free advertising by appearing on a reality TV show, I think her plan backfired. Now no woman over the age of 35 will want to go to her if all she can offer is bad news. I still don't get the gloomy "low egg count" prognosis, sure Aika has thousands of eggs less than she did at 20, but as long as she's still menstruating she typically releases one a month so even just a couple of hundred eggs should last her for many more years. 

[balisticnikki]

58 minutes ago, MrSmith said:

He may not be. However, Kensley knows who her father is and she damn well knows it isn't Luis! So when Luis comes along and says "I'm your father" or "I'm going to be your father", that's not going to get a positive reaction from Kensley and it certainly won't improve his standing in her mind.

That's not the point. My comment is in response to someone who asked if Luis understood that he would be asked to step in as a father figure and if so, to what extent. I think he did understand that and was somewhat willing to do it but was not successful for various reasons. Luis telling her he was going to be her dad was a mistake. But hardly explains the whole situation...and doesn't mean he hates the kensley. Some special needs kids are very hard for even their own bio parents to deal with. And the parenting styles are difficult, it's almost impossible for a stepparent to develop a good bond.

38 minutes ago, magemaud said:

It was driving me crazy what "Cher's" real name was, so I fast forwarded through everything, also I'm a little anal...

Cherilyn Sarkisian Bono Altmann?

[Drogo]

I don't believe the show has given us any indication that Kensley has special needs, has it?

[calpurnia99]

Molly and Louise plain and simple do not know each other. Molly said "Louise is not turning out to be the father that I thought he could be". She knew NOTHING about him, nothing. Just fun and games on vacay. Now she is getting to know he is nuts, lazy, does not like kids, does not trust the Buddha etc. She had no clue. I don't understand her lack of judgement. When I was 42 I also wanted to be in a relationship very badly. Now that I'm 57 I don't give a shit about it. But I do remember that longing for getting a lifelong partner was so so strong. I bet they did have fun on vacation but wow...just wow. 

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, calpurnia99 said:

Molly and Louise plain and simple do not know each other. Molly said "Louise is not turning out to be the father that I thought he could be". She knew NOTHING about him, nothing. Just fun and games on vacay. Now she is getting to know he is nuts, lazy, does not like kids, does not trust the Buddha etc. She had no clue. I don't understand her lack of judgement. 

Coincidentally, Dr. Phil had a re-run today that included a couple; she was white and 34 with a 6-year-old child.  He was African-American, 20 years old, and unemployed.  Female had just lost her job, and was still deep in debt to get boy toy everything he wanted.  Dr. Phil told her flat out that she needed to work on her self-esteem and stop supporting someone other than her child.  He went on to say that if boy toy had his own place, a job, and was paying his own way, Phil wouldn't have a problem if BT picked the lady up and took her out on a date.  Then he looked at lady and said, "You're not going to change one thing, are you?"

Honestly, who thinks Luis would have spent one penny of his tip money to pay his own way to Georgia to date and marry Molly?

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:10 AM, islandgal140 said:

 

To go back to my messy bitchery: glad to have the ultimate receipt from a licensed and board certified medical professional using the latest in ultrasonic imagery that Aika is indeed a bio female. I had my doubts. 

 

Oh thank god I wasn’t alone on this one! I too had doubts ! I thought to myself “AMFBI? Aren’t you being a little hard on Anika?” I’m going to hell in a handbasket. Heaven for the climate, hell for the  company as they say. 

On 12/11/2017 at 1:24 PM, Pepper Mostly said:

I posted upthread that that dress could conceivably be her grandma's dress, even. Her parents must have married in the 90's, GunneSax was seriously vintage then

 

You’re RIGHT! Excellent point ! 

22 hours ago, Horrified said:

 

2.  I need a screen shot of Molly's driveway - I could have sworn there was a pretty boss-looking (NOT!) car truck or old Le Baron parked next to the garage.  Brother Molly wheels.

 

Dead! 

19 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

I remembered where I had seen the thing he does with his tongue.

Dead again !! 

14 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

@mamadrama, loved your supremely scathing insult of Luis.  This:

 would pack his bags and send him and his little fakely pious, gaslighting, disrespectful, inappropriate, gold-digging, stripper drooling, sanky panky, douchebaggery fuckery back to the DR. Coach. With at least 3 flight changes.

is just as good or even better than Antonio’s “ugly ass Batman Penguin Mutant Ninja Turtle” rant.

A seasonal reminder  the likes of Clark Griswold’s in the Christmas Vacation movie when he flips a shit about his cheap boss/lack of a Christmas bonus...... and just as good.

“I want to look him straight in the eye and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, ****less, hopeless, heartless, fat-***, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey **** he is. Hallelujah. Holy shit. Where's the Tylenol?”

Edited December 12, 2017 by Alonzo Mosely FBI

[MrSmith]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

Honestly, who thinks Luis would have spent one penny of his tip money to pay his own way to Georgia to date and marry Molly?

There isn't sex on the planet good enough for that!

[CoachWristletJen]

2 hours ago, balisticnikki said:

Not to mention, Chris is tall and fit and good looking. A former athlete. Has a kind of distinguished look. And there's David Poor.... I'm guessing one of David Poor's businesses was providing some kind of service for one of Chris's businesses and David Poor managed to ingratiate himself to Chris.

What a Chris doesn’t realize is that it’s costing him in more ways than just financially. David Poor is making him look bad. Period point blank — whatever that really means. Also, why let a creep like David Pour put one moment of stress on his marriage to Nikki? Chris needs to cease and desist ALL contact with David Pour. No more handouts. No more late night hot showers.

[balisticnikki]

44 minutes ago, Drogo said:

I don't believe the show has given us any indication that Kensley has special needs, has it?

Several ppl here have figured it out. (I guess there were indications.)

[Drogo]

If Molly hasn't said it, it's speculation and not something that's been figured out.  Kensley's 6 years old, communicates clearly, sometimes spills her ice cream, and doesn't want dumbass Luis to be her new dad.  She's doing fine.

[PityFree]

18 minutes ago, CoachWristletJen said:

What a Chris doesn’t realize is that it’s costing him in more ways than just financially. David Poor is making him look bad. Period point blank — whatever that really means. Also, why let a creep like David Pour put one moment of stress on his marriage to Nikki? Chris needs to cease and desist ALL contact with David Pour. No more handouts. No more late night hot showers.

 But then David will spill the beans on whatever secrets he’s keeping for Chris. 

[sasha206]

13 hours ago, millennium said:

All kidding aside, I think Sisters Libby are concerned about the authoritarian their sister is engaged to -- and have every reason to be.   At the same time I think they should also be concerned about Libby herself because as someone upthread suggested, it seems like she gets off on being controlled.   I felt it in the pit of my stomach when she brought out her outfits for Andrrrei's review.   In that instant she surrendered her self-esteem, her dignity and her autonomy while that like, monosyllabic, like, brute sat there like eating it up like.

I'm going to have to go back and look at the episode again, but I just saw a woman not seeking approval as in "Is it okay with you if I wear this tonight to the bar you don't approve or me going." Rewatching it.  She pulls out a short dress and he looks at it, comments on it being short, but said it looks cool.   

It didn't seem like that big of a deal to me.  i used to pull out my outfits to see what late hubby liked and didn't but it wasn't to prevent me from wearing anything -- just to see what he thought would look better on me as I went out!  

I don't think Andrei is controlling but I think that's the storyline they are pushing.  

Edited December 12, 2017 by sasha206

[Bridget]

6 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I guess I'm doomed with my Harry Potter tattoo and a corner of my craft room dedicated to HP memorabilia, huh?

ETA:  About Mae . . . of course she can say something other than "Daddy."  Did you not see her eyes light up and hear her scream "FRIES!!!!" when they were plopped down in front of her a couple of episodes ago?

ETA2 (Just having my morning coffee):  If Josh and Aika were going to see about a vasectomy reversal, why did they go to a fertility clinic founded by a doctor (the one they say) who was an OB/GYN?  Why didn't they go to a urologist first?  You can just Google "Vasectomy Reversal" and come up with a place in AZ with a place that even has financing.  It's bizarre that they didn't go for a true "let's try first to fix what's broken" approach.

Oh my gosh - you're right! "Fries!!!!" That's the other word she can say.

PS: So jealous of your craft room memorabilia!! Would you be kind enough to maybe send a few photos via PM? 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, Drogo said:

If Molly hasn't said it, it's speculation and not something that's been figured out.  Kensley's 6 years old, communicates clearly, sometimes spills her ice cream, and doesn't want dumbass Luis to be her new dad.  She's doing fine.

I agree. Kensley seems like a normal 6 year old to me, if anything, more intelligent and articulate than most.   The only thing I've seen that could even remotely be called a "clue" would be that she sat in the special needs swing when they went to the park.  But, I didn't even know it was a special needs swing and I think she probably sat in it because it looked different and cool.   

[Tuttifrutti]

On 11-12-2017 at 5:39 AM, balisticnikki said:

I feel badly for her to a point. But she is 28 yrs old. He's only been in Thailand for 4 yrs. After 18, parents really don't owe you anything, esp not day-to-day contact. It's time for her to cut her losses & get over being mad.

Please note - I have been a massive lurker of this forum whilst watching 90DF, yet never really felt like I had much to add, until I saw this comment pop up. Your remark really rubs me the wrong way.

Although I do not necessarily approve of Ashley's language or the way she treated Annie, I did recognize the way she felt. I too grew up as a child of a father who was a serial cheater for 14 years. I also had to look after my mother who suffered from depression because of it.

Eventually, my parents split up when I was 19 years old. My dad had an affair during the divorce, and it didn't take long for his girlfriend to move in after my mother had moved out.

Although I was over 18, and legally and my dad didn't "owe" me anything, both he and his girlfriend kept telling me how to live my life, how to treat others and how to have stable relationships. I wasn't exactly happy to be getting this kind of advice from someone whose past decisions were far more flawed than any of mine. The confrontations we had were at times far more intense and violent than the one we saw between David Poor and his daughter.

Yet my dad, much like David Poor, truly believes he has done the best he could, was an alright father to his children, and that everything I tell him about it is no more than a "thing of the past" that he should no longer be held accountable for. He even believes that we are an ungrateful bunch (especially my two siblings who no longer are in touch with him.) He is a total smooth talker, and easily makes people side with him. To see David Poor trivializing the things his daughter said reminded me so much of my own father.

 

I tried to "cut my losses & get over being mad". I really did. Until, after years of on and off depression and serious mental breakdowns, at age 25, I was diagnozed with borderline personality disorder and further severe personality development issues that, even though therapy is trying to lessen their impact, affect my private life immensely. Of course this is not solely to blame on my father, but some parts of my mental condition are definitely something I do blame my father for. 

I did sympathize with Ashley, and totally get where she's coming from. She might not have personality issues the way I do (I really hope for her that she doesn't!). But I too have had people tell me to "just cut contact with my dad" and to "just move on". Believe me, if it were that simple, I would have done it ages ago. And I think Ashley would have too.

 

I hope you'll consider this, before saying anything of this kind again. It's not always a matter of simply moving on. There might be way more to it than you can imagine.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Tuttifrutti

[Mrs. Hanson]

14 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

would pack his bags and send him and his little fakely pious, gaslighting, disrespectful, inappropriate, gold-digging, stripper drooling, sanky panky, douchebaggery fuckery back to the DR. Coach. With at least 3 flight changes.

No kidding - I would have done the above just for Luis insinuating that because I was on my period "You are acting the crazy."  Shut. It.

 

4 hours ago, Ki-in said:

The Luis/Molly argument over satanic owls and scripture in the bathroom is one for the ages!

I was like....WTF?  I love owls!!  They are kinda nerdy - love them.

 

5 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said:

Seeing May "plugged in" at what looks like a family meal in the previews for next week pissed me off beyond belief. Whatever happened to talking/interacting with children or bringing a coloring book/crayons so they are engaged in some type of activity?  I don't mean to stereotype parents of all young ones (but that's the demographic that I see the most who stick their kids in front of screens) but Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Nicole, stop with the screens and talk to May since you apparently  have SO MUCH to talk about! 

I know and I agree - there are way too many kids "plugged in" all! the! time!  I am a special ed teacher - I will be brief:  I get dinged on my observations as I don't use enough technology.  I explain back (politely) that kids today (I work in a K-6 school) are plugged in all damn day and every evening from 4:30 until bedtime.  What is wrong with paper pencil, dammit?  LOL!   Gotta go shoo those little whippersnappers off my lawn now.....

 

5 hours ago, Chickabiddy said:

Mae seems to be on the French Fry diet. Such a diet means she is nutritionally deprived and this could affect brain development, gut health, and even her adult height. I read that this will be the first generation of children who are going to be shorter adults on average than their parents because of the poor nutrition they received growing up.

Mae will be a mom at 19 and be overweight like her mom.  Not chapping on a little girl, I am chapping on her negligent mom who feeds her crap, at least what we see on tv.  Nicole is prime example of wanting to be a mom but not actually do any of the heavy lifting it takes to be a mother.

[Madding crowd]

I don't think we can decide May is special needs based on a few minutes of time on a tv show. Some children are not overly verbal at that age (and yes I was a preschool teacher with a master's in educational development). On top of that, when shows are filming young children they want to keep them busy, so they are not babbling over the dialogue, trying to touch the camera, or blocking shots, or crying or demanding something. I also see children of all ages and social stations being entertained by movies on a laptop or phone. I don't think we know that she never goes outside, never eats anything but fries, or has any physical or mental defects. I'm no fan of Nicole or any of these people, but making assumptions about a three year old on a few minutes tv is not right. My own son (now 20) talked up a storm at home but wouldn't say more than a few words in front of strangers. 

Luis looked high as a kite and I don't believe for a minute he is religious or cares about Molly's decorations. I also don't believe he is any kind of full time nanny for Kensley. I am willing to bet there is a full time nanny, and the show stages scenes with Kensley for dramatic purposes. I think all of these people coming from other countries should have long discussions on how they will spend there time since they apparently can't work for awhile. Luis is immature and will not be happy living with Molly and her daughters. I will say the same thing to him I would say to Azan.  Azan: If you want a thin, athletic woman who cooks Moroccan food and loves Moroccan culture, there is an ideal place to find her: In Morocco. Ditto for Luis.

I don't have much interest in David Poor and Annie or Josh and his fiancée. I dont like either of the men but I also don't think these women are guaranteed anything because of their  wants in life. I'm not sure I see any of these people making it. Sometimes I like Andre, but if he can't let Libby go for two hours without a call, it is a serious problem. Even if she desires a dominant man-no one wants to be dominated 24/7. I also don't see Evelyn and David Spain making it. He is a 27 year old, fussy, fussy virgin and he will never be happy with Evelyn. I make fun of Evelyn a lot but I do think she is going into the marriage expecting sex, children, and a husband who will cherish her. I don't think she will get that in David. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Madding crowd
Spellcheck keeps changing names

[sasha206]

3 minutes ago, Tuttifrutti said:

Please note - I have been a massive lurker of this forum whilst watching 90DF, yet never really felt like I had much to add, until I saw this comment pop up. Your remark really rubs me the wrong way.

Although I do not necessarily approve of Ashley's language or the way she treated Annie, I did recognize the way she felt. I too grew up as a child of a father who was a serial cheater for 14 years. I also had to look after my mother who suffered from depression because of it.

Eventually, my parents split up when I was 19 years old. My dad had an affair during the divorce, and it didn't take long for his girlfriend to move in after my mother had moved out.

Although I was over 18, and legally and my dad didn't "owe" me anything, both he and his girlfriend kept telling me how to live my life, how to treat others and how to have stable relationships. I wasn't exactly happy to be getting this kind of advice from someone whose past decisions were far more flawed than any of mine. The confrontations we had were at times far more intense and violent than the one we saw between David Poor and his daughter.

Yet my dad, much like David Poor, truly believes he has done the best he could, was an alright father to his children, and that everything I tell him about it is no more than a "thing of the past" that he should no longer be held accountable for. He even believes that we are an ungrateful bunch (especially my two siblings who no longer are in touch with him.) He is a total smooth talker, and easily makes people side with him. To see David Poor trivializing the things his daughter said reminded me so much of my own father.

 

I tried to "cut my losses & get over being mad". I really did. Until, after years of on and off depression and serious mental breakdowns, at age 25, I was diagnozed with borderline personality disorder and further severe personality development issues that, even though therapy is trying to lessen their impact, affect my private life immensely. Of course this is not solely to blame on my father, but some parts of my mental condition are definitely something I do blame my father for. 

I did sympathize with Ashley immensely, and totally get where she's coming from. She might not have personality issues the way I do (I really hope for her that she doesn't!). But I too have had people tell me to "just cut contact with my dad" and to "just move on". Believe me, if it were that simple, I would have done it ages ago. And I think Ashley would have too.

 

I hope you'll consider this, before saying anything of this kind again. It's not always a matter of simply moving on. There might be way more to it than you can imagine.

I agree.

Not to mention Ashley is watching her own brother (half brother?) essentially be ignored while daddy chases Thai brides around and spends money he doesn't have on them instead of parenting.  And then he has the nerve to expect them to welcome her with loving arms.  It's rubbing salt on the wound that daddy couldn't be bothered much with his own kids but chasing women?  Plenty of time and dough for that.

17 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree. Kensley seems like a normal 6 year old to me, if anything, more intelligent and articulate than most.   The only thing I've seen that could even remotely be called a "clue" would be that she sat in the special needs swing when they went to the park.  But, I didn't even know it was a special needs swing and I think she probably sat in it because it looked different and cool.   

There seems to be a knee jerk reaction these days that any time a kid seems to be bratty that they are "on the spectrum" or special needs  (although I don't think she is -- she has some creepy stranger being shoved down her throat as some sort of parental figure).

[John M]

Is it possible that May is just, well not very smart? I mean not like a specific learning disability but just low IQ? I mean her mother is dumb as a box of hair and I doubt her father is an intellectual giant either. How much of that is genetic?

I really get the impression that Nicole is on the higher functioning end of mentally disabled.

[gonecrackers]

24 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

29 minutes ago, Tuttifrutti said:

Please note - I have been a massive lurker of this forum whilst watching 90DF, yet never really felt like I had much to add, until I saw this comment pop up. Your remark really rubs me the wrong way.

Although I do not necessarily approve of Ashley's language or the way she treated Annie, I did recognize the way she felt. I too grew up as a child of a father who was a serial cheater for 14 years. I also had to look after my mother who suffered from depression because of it.

Eventually, my parents split up when I was 19 years old. My dad had an affair during the divorce, and it didn't take long for his girlfriend to move in after my mother had moved out.

Although I was over 18, and legally and my dad didn't "owe" me anything, both he and his girlfriend kept telling me how to live my life, how to treat others and how to have stable relationships. I wasn't exactly happy to be getting this kind of advice from someone whose past decisions were far more flawed than any of mine. The confrontations we had were at times far more intense and violent than the one we saw between David Poor and his daughter.

Yet my dad, much like David Poor, truly believes he has done the best he could, was an alright father to his children, and that everything I tell him about it is no more than a "thing of the past" that he should no longer be held accountable for. He even believes that we are an ungrateful bunch (especially my two siblings who no longer are in touch with him.) He is a total smooth talker, and easily makes people side with him. To see David Poor trivializing the things his daughter said reminded me so much of my own father.

 

I tried to "cut my losses & get over being mad". I really did. Until, after years of on and off depression and serious mental breakdowns, at age 25, I was diagnozed with borderline personality disorder and further severe personality development issues that, even though therapy is trying to lessen their impact, affect my private life immensely. Of course this is not solely to blame on my father, but some parts of my mental condition are definitely something I do blame my father for. 

I did sympathize with Ashley immensely, and totally get where she's coming from. She might not have personality issues the way I do (I really hope for her that she doesn't!). But I too have had people tell me to "just cut contact with my dad" and to "just move on". Believe me, if it were that simple, I would have done it ages ago. And I think Ashley would have too.

 

I hope you'll consider this, before saying anything of this kind again. It's not always a matter of simply moving on. There might be way more to it than you can imagine.

I agree.

Not to mention Ashley is watching her own brother (half brother?) essentially be ignored while daddy chases Thai brides around and spends money he doesn't have on them instead of parenting.  And then he has the nerve to expect them to welcome her with loving arms.  It's rubbing salt on the wound that daddy couldn't be bothered much with his own kids but chasing women?  Plenty of time and dough for that.

I agree as well. I haven't made it through the whole thing but during the dinner confrontation & in her TH I saw that Ashley was hurting. And her questions that her 'dad' said were none of her 'fucking business' (unloving crap head he is) were relevant because of the babies Annie may want to have & of history quite possibly repeating itself for her.

If I were Annie or Aika I'd be rethinking having babies with men whose grown children are so angry with them that some don't even keep contact. That says something & it's downright stupid to ignore such a huge red flag.

Edited December 12, 2017 by gonecrackers
no contraction needed

[sasha206]

7 minutes ago, John M said:

I really get the impression that Nicole is on the higher functioning end of mentally disabled.

 

I get the impression NIcole is just a self-absorbed moron.  Sometimes people are just plain dumb, not mentally disabled.

[magemaud]

29 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

But, I didn't even know it was a special needs swing and I think she probably sat in it because it looked different and cool.

I didn't see any regular swings there, either, just the one she used and a couple of those little bucket shaped baby swings, so maybe it was a playground designed for younger kids

[Cherrio]

4 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

 

I get the impression NIcole is just a self-absorbed moron.  Sometimes people are just plain dumb, not mentally disabled.

I would add ignorant too and include the whole family. May will be no different.

[Chickabiddy]

5 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

 

I get the impression NIcole is just a self-absorbed moron.  Sometimes people are just plain dumb, not mentally disabled.

Dumb and let's not forget L A Z Y. Now where have I heard that before. ;-) 

[balisticnikki]

14 minutes ago, Tuttifrutti said:

Please note - I have been a massive lurker of this forum whilst watching 90DF, yet never really felt like I had much to add, until I saw this comment pop up. Your remark really rubs me the wrong way.

Although I do not necessarily approve of Ashley's language or the way she treated Annie, I did recognize the way she felt. I too grew up as a child of a father who was a serial cheater for 14 years. I also had to look after my mother who suffered from depression because of it.

Eventually, my parents split up when I was 19 years old. My dad had an affair during the divorce, and it didn't take long for his girlfriend to move in after my mother had moved out.

Although I was over 18, and legally and my dad didn't "owe" me anything, both he and his girlfriend kept telling me how to live my life, how to treat others and how to have stable relationships. I wasn't exactly happy to be getting this kind of advice from someone whose past decisions were far more flawed than any of mine. The confrontations we had were at times far more intense and violent than the one we saw between David Poor and his daughter.

Yet my dad, much like David Poor, truly believes he has done the best he could, was an alright father to his children, and that everything I tell him about it is no more than a "thing of the past" that he should no longer be held accountable for. He even believes that we are an ungrateful bunch (especially my two siblings who no longer are in touch with him.) He is a total smooth talker, and easily makes people side with him. To see David Poor trivializing the things his daughter said reminded me so much of my own father.

 

I tried to "cut my losses & get over being mad". I really did. Until, after years of on and off depression and serious mental breakdowns, at age 25, I was diagnozed with borderline personality disorder and further severe personality development issues that, even though therapy is trying to lessen their impact, affect my private life immensely. Of course this is not solely to blame on my father, but some parts of my mental condition are definitely something I do blame my father for. 

I did sympathize with Ashley, and totally get where she's coming from. She might not have personality issues the way I do (I really hope for her that she doesn't!). But I too have had people tell me to "just cut contact with my dad" and to "just move on". Believe me, if it were that simple, I would have done it ages ago. And I think Ashley would have too.

 

I hope you'll consider this, before saying anything of this kind again. It's not always a matter of simply moving on. There might be way more to it than you can imagine.

Look, I said what I said.

While, I'm sorry you struggle with mental illness (sincerely), and I do empathize with kids who go thru this (my father was a serial cheater father, too), I still think Ashley's reaction on tv was disproportionately extreme. Her sister chose not to attend the dinner. And Jacob just politely expressed his disapproval. There are many ways that her disappointment could have been handled.

I did, however, say I would understand Ashley's over-the-top fury more if the cheating had caused the mom to have a mental break down or had caused them to lose their home or something catastrophic (as was apparently the result in your situation). But Ashley's main complaint was that he hasn't been around in the last 4 yrs. Any assertions about cheating, whoring, gallivanting, etc., are just hearsay.

[Granny58]

OK, I admit...I can be dense.  And I usually am doing other things so may miss stuff.  But all the talk of Andrrrrei being controlling.  I take it to mean when she asked his opinion of her dress.  That seemed pretty normal to me.  I would ask my husband for his opinion too.  Also, if he thought something was too skanky I wouldn't wear it.  (I'm an Alfred Dunner type now...but back in the day was a different story).  

[Nowhere]

14 hours ago, John M said:

Yes they very much are, those love hanging out at gay bars like we are some sort of side show.

I'm better now but before marriage equality I lost my shit at some obnoxious wooo hoo bachelorette parties harassing us at a gay bar with their penis themed shit and bachelorette bar games.

I first heard the term "woo girl" on an episode of How I Met Your Mother. I haven't heard it since until this forum. I never thought it had anything to do with gay bars.

I like gay bars because the men aren't there to bother women or pick up women, and everyone is very respectful. I've made a lot of friends at my local gay bar and I'm a straight female, although I don't get out much anymore. Never knew it was so offensive for straights to go to gay bars. Never met a female that treated a gay man like a side show at my favorite location.

I see what you're saying about the bachelorette parties but I hope you understand that MOST women in a committed relationship don't want to go to straight clubs to get groped by men, so they take their parties to safety, where they can possibly dance without some random dude trying to grind on them. And yet it's criticized when we go to the gay bar and it's criticized when we go to the straight bar. So I guess we just can't win with men.

Also, they shouldn't have drag artists at bars if they don't want party groups going to enjoy the art. Drag is a big draw. What's wrong with that? 

[funky-rat]

22 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I do wonder if there is a big double standard with a "girl's night" and a "guy's night" at the club?  For the women on the board who go dancing with their friends quite a bit does your husband also go clubbing with his buddies too?  I kind of feel like when women do it, it's a girls dancing with girls thing whereas if men were to go to a club, they'd likely be bumping uglies with girls and therefore I think women would prefer their hubby's boys nights to be ones that involve poker and not dancing.

My husband doesn't club, but he's also a recovering alcoholic, so that may have something to do with it.  Even in his drinking days, he would club some (and I was usually there to be the designate driver, yippee), but most of his drinking was done sitting around a table playing cards with "friends" who were anything but.  He's done a strip club twice.  Both times, I was with him.  I indulged him a lap dance, but I was there to make sure the stripper didn't push it too far.  After he had it, he said never again.  It made him feel skeevy.  They do have "couples friendly" strip clubs, and I made sure that's where we were.

16 hours ago, AZ Curls said:

So I fell asleep 15 min into last night's episode. My husband must've walked into the room while I was asleep and he saw the scene at the fertility clinic and he actually delivers  (he's a FedEx courier) to that doctor's office. He doesn't know how to bring it up & tell them he saw them on tv without admitting to them that he watches this crap show.

Do what I did when I saw something we made where I work on Toddlers and Tiaras.  "Hey, someone told me they saw us on Toddlers and Tiaras last night!".  Problem solved.  ; )

15 hours ago, millennium said:

Woo woo girls are actually a thing?    For real, I sat here thinking why the fuck do they keep going "woo woo" or "woo hoo?"  

14 hours ago, John M said:

Yes they very much are, those love hanging out at gay bars like we are some sort of side show.

I'm better now but before marriage equality I lost my shit at some obnoxious wooo hoo bachelorette parties harassing us at a gay bar with their penis themed shit and bachelorette bar games.

Unfortunately, yes.  There was a group at comedy show I drove a long way to see (the show was at a casino).  My dad lost his shit on them because he was also there for the show - not them.

14 hours ago, millennium said:

I thought it was nice of Cher to go out with them.

I love me some Cher.  I'd call her "Elizabeth's Friend" Great Value Cher.

 

5 hours ago, PinkFlamingo said:

My impression was speech delayed and I also think some speech delayed children don't say a whole lot. But maybe we just aren't shown her speaking, I don't know. 

I was reminded of some people I knew that raised a child by feeding her junk food and candy and plopping her in front of a TV 24/7.  The only things she would say was "what in your wallet" and other short phrases heard on TV commercials. They would all laugh at these phrases but I thought it was incredibly sad. The few times I visited I would find a book to read to her or teach her how to put together a puzzle, etc. 

Mr. Funky's first great nephew was a TV baby.  Plopped down in front of the TV while his out of work mom played online all day.  And it wasn't anything appropriate for kids - Nightmare before Christmas, Corpse Bride, Rocky Horror Picture Show, etc.  When he was Mae's age he was largely non-verbal, and eons behind in development.  Someone mentioned to his mom that maybe he was Autistic, and she shopped him to doctors until one agreed and diagnosed him as such.  That allowed her to be named as his caregiver, and get paid for it, and continue to sit around online all day, talking about how hard things are.  That poor kid is so far behind and I don't truly believe he's on the spectrum - just lazy parenting.  Thankfully he has someone that comes work with him, and I'm hoping to see some improvement and hope that no permanent damage was done.

3 hours ago, MrSmith said:

Would have been the end of my friendship with her, too. They really should have kept that between them and done it around the house where there are no witnesses.

Nothing wrong with dom/sub stuff (provided all participants are willing, and have rules established) but that should be kept behind closed doors, IMO.  Otherwise, it's just disturbing.

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

I don't believe the show has given us any indication that Kensley has special needs, has it?

Other than her being a bit of a brat, no.  But that's on her mom.

[balisticnikki]

3 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

OK, I admit...I can be dense.  And I usually am doing other things so may miss stuff.  But all the talk of Andrrrrei being controlling.  I take it to mean when she asked his opinion of her dress.  That seemed pretty normal to me.  I would ask my husband for his opinion too.  Also, if he thought something was too skanky I wouldn't wear it.  (I'm an Alfred Dunner type now...but back in the day was a different story).  

Most women feel they have sense enough to decide if something is appropriate or inappropriate to wear.

And he has asked about this kind of thing before.

[Normades]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:10 AM, islandgal140 said:

drank it out of my Royal Doulton teacups with the hand-painted periwinkle

I hope you invited your sister with the mercedes, swimming pool and room for a pony to sip tea with you!!  Oh @islandgal140 I think I love you!  

[Granny58]

2 minutes ago, balisticnikki said:

Most women feel they have sense enough to decide if something is appropriate or inappropriate to wear.

And he has asked about this kind of thing before.

Was she asking if it was appropriate or attractive?  The latter is very normal.

7 hours ago, lucy711 said:

May wakes up multiple times during the night and needs her diaper changed.

and screams and wakes the whole house!!!

[balisticnikki]

4 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

Was she asking if it was appropriate or attractive?  The latter is very normal.

Appropriate. (Remember, she had to show him that it was long enough to cover her genitals and butt cheeks?)

Edited December 12, 2017 by balisticnikki

[funky-rat]

1 minute ago, Nowhere said:

I first heard the term "woo girl" on an episode of How I Met Your Mother. I haven't heard it since until this forum. I never thought it had anything to do with gay bars.

I like gay bars because the men aren't there to bother women or pick up women, and everyone is very respectful. I've made a lot of friends at my local gay bar and I'm a straight female, although I don't get out much anymore. Never knew it was so offensive for straights to go to gay bars. Never met a female that treated a gay man like a side show at my favorite location.

I see what you're saying about the bachelorette parties but I hope you understand that MOST women in a committed relationship don't want to go to straight clubs to get groped by men, so they take their parties to safety, where they can possibly dance without some random dude trying to grind on them. And yet it's criticized when we go to the gay bar and it's criticized when we go to the straight bar. So I guess we just can't win with men.

It's not a gay bar thing per se - Woo girls can be found anywhere there's alcohol.  I have many gay male friends, and I understand where the OP is coming from.  They were ostracized from regular clubs in many cases, so they started their own, and now some are being overrun by the same people who ostracized them prior (not referring to you - just an example).  And while I'm sure they don't care about some straight women coming in, there is a large contingent of straight women (again, not referring to you) who come to gay bars because they think it's funny.  They make fun of the people there, and make comments, and come in with their male genetalia bedecked stuff and rub their faces in it, etc.  That's not fun.  That's harassment.  Then they pack up and move on to the next bar.  They want to feel like they have a safe place to hang out too, and be themselves, and not be made fun of, etc.  

[Granny58]

8 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Libby's sisters kept telling her that she could never have fun again after she got married.  Yet, they were going out and having their version of fun (which doesn't reflect in any way what I consider to be fun).  So, why are they badgering her with the idea of this is the last fun she will ever have?  Also, I have read many posts throughout the season that stated that Libby enjoyed playing the sides against each other and I really saw that in this episode.  She really does like baiting the sides against each other and having both sides "fight" over her.  Yes, she craves the drama and attention.

Oh, I wanted to add that sure Azan looked happy when Nicole left.  Her leaving for the US means that he almost has his K-1 Visa.  He desperately wants it for whatever reason.  Notice how apologetic he was about her time in Morocco-right as she was leaving.  He's smart in that he knows she will most likely remember the last thing said to her.  And, he wants to make sure she has fond memories and will get him to the U.S.  I really believe that he could find a better match/sponsor but I also think he doesn't care who it is as he has no intention of staying with her after receiving his work permit-I don't think he'll stay for the length of getting permanent residency.  

Yep to both. 

36 minutes ago, balisticnikki said:

Appropriate. (Remember, she had to show him that it was long enough to cover her genitals and butt cheeks?)

No, I didn't see that part!  Hmmm...wonder if she has a tendency to NOT cover her bits.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Granny58

[Mrs. Hanson]

31 minutes ago, John M said:

Is it possible that May is just, well not very smart? I mean not like a specific learning disability but just low IQ? I mean her mother is dumb as a box of hair and I doubt her father is an intellectual giant either. How much of that is genetic?

I really get the impression that Nicole is on the higher functioning end of mentally disabled.

Nicole strikes me as an IQ of about 80 or so (Sped teacher here, given thousands of IQ tests) - 70 is the cutoff for Developmentally Delayed.  She can function but is just not bright.  Mae- we don't know enough about but if Nicole is lower IQ you can bet Mae is down that path.

Upthread, whoever said that Azan needs and or wants a girl who is thin, respects his culture and religion and can cook food that is from Moracco, well he should look around in, oh I don't know.....MORACCO?  Hells yes.  

[Granny58]

7 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

David Poor's daughter was probably telling the truth about her Dad, but I did not like the obvious glee she took in it.   She was not trying to help Annie or her father, but to get satisfaction in upsetting Annie and trashing her Dad.  I can't say I really blame her, after the sort of father and man he has been, but it was not a good look.

I think the motivation is to hurt him the way he hurt her....deeply.  

7 hours ago, MrSmith said:

I had a vasectomy 15 to 17 years ago. The body starts attacking the sperm and treating it like a foreign body (like a virus). So the sperm actually become malformed because of this. Even if Josh gets his vasectomy reversed, the defective sperm leads to a much higher incidence of birth defects. And the fact that his vasectomy is also more than five years ago, the odds of it being successfully reversed are probably in the fractions of one percent. My doctor told me when I was discussing having it done that if it isn't reversed within the first five years, you should consider it permanent because of the difficulty in reversing it and the damage done to the sperm by the body's immune system.

That's fascinating.  I never heard about the foreign body aspect of it before.  

[Nowhere]

2 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

It's not a gay bar thing per se - Woo girls can be found anywhere there's alcohol.  I have many gay male friends, and I understand where the OP is coming from.  They were ostracized from regular clubs in many cases, so they started their own, and now some are being overrun by the same people who ostracized them prior (not referring to you - just an example).  And while I'm sure they don't care about some straight women coming in, there is a large contingent of straight women (again, not referring to you) who come to gay bars because they think it's funny.  They make fun of the people there, and make comments, and come in with their male genetalia bedecked stuff and rub their faces in it, etc.  That's not fun.  That's harassment.  Then they pack up and move on to the next bar.  They want to feel like they have a safe place to hang out too, and be themselves, and not be made fun of, etc.  

That really pisses me off and I hope it doesn't happen often. I've never seen it firsthand and I used to sell shots at my favorite place so I was there often. It does make me angry to hear that. Like, punch a bitch type angry. I'm was just trying to say that most bacheloretes at my spot didn't bring their props and for the most part just wanted a safe place to watch a good show and do some dancing. Let's not think that all straights go to gay bars to make fun of gay men. I love my gay male friends and it's heartbreaking to think of them in situations like that at their own safe place though. Wow. People can be assholes so bad.

[Nowhere]

8 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Nicole strikes me as an IQ of about 80 or so (Sped teacher here, given thousands of IQ tests) - 70 is the cutoff for Developmentally Delayed.  She can function but is just not bright.  Mae- we don't know enough about but if Nicole is lower IQ you can bet Mae is down that path.

Upthread, whoever said that Azan needs and or wants a girl who is thin, respects his culture and religion and can cook food that is from Moracco, well he should look around in, oh I don't know.....MORACCO?  Hells yes.  

That's why I say Azan is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Everybody feels sorry for him but he is the one pulling all the strings and he is so insulting to Nicole who is very obviously delayed in some form or fashion. I think she's actually really trying to meet his requirements but she's just too dumb and doesn't have the drive to follow through. Diet and exercise are not easy when you have no knowledge and have never exercised before or eaten anything other than fries. So many people fail at weight loss. If it were as easy as Azan makes it seem, we'd all be models. 

Nicole wants Azan to love her and he doesn't. But I can tell she loves him and just wants him to value her as is. Maybe if he tried that, she'd become the Barbie he wants. I don't know why I feel so sorry for her but I do. Possibly because I know she's just a dumb little girl who wants to be loved and she's being taken advantage of, constantly put down, and ignored. 

[John M]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

I first heard the term "woo girl" on an episode of How I Met Your Mother. I haven't heard it since until this forum. I never thought it had anything to do with gay bars.

I like gay bars because the men aren't there to bother women or pick up women, and everyone is very respectful. I've made a lot of friends at my local gay bar and I'm a straight female, although I don't get out much anymore. Never knew it was so offensive for straights to go to gay bars. Never met a female that treated a gay man like a side show at my favorite location.

I see what you're saying about the bachelorette parties but I hope you understand that MOST women in a committed relationship don't want to go to straight clubs to get groped by men, so they take their parties to safety, where they can possibly dance without some random dude trying to grind on them. And yet it's criticized when we go to the gay bar and it's criticized when we go to the straight bar. So I guess we just can't win with men.

Also, they shouldn't have drag artists at bars if they don't want party groups going to enjoy the art. Drag is a big draw. What's wrong with that? 

Gay bars are for gay people, it is literally our safe space, it's the center of queer culture and politics, we go there to be around other queer people and it is tremendously insensitive to say well I don't want to be around straight dudes so I am taking this space from you, oppressed minority who just wants to have a drink with friends and peer group without fear of being gay bashed.

No one is trying to ban straight people from gay bars but please be sensitive that as much as the no straight guys thing might be appealing to you the bar wasn't designed for you, it is the refuge of an oppressed minority group. It's one thing if you are going with queer people but for a group of straight girls to just show up at a gay bar and claim the space as their own? Do you really not see why that is insensitive?

Now as far as the bachelorette parties, that was just disgustingly inappropriate when we were not legally allowed to get married, it's a giant fuck you to have a party to celebrate getting married in a space for people that don't have that right.

Edited December 12, 2017 by John M

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

I'm going to have to go back and look at the episode again, but I just saw a woman not seeking approval as in "Is it okay with you if I wear this tonight to the bar you don't approve or me going." Rewatching it.  She pulls out a short dress and he looks at it, comments on it being short, but said it looks cool.   

It didn't seem like that big of a deal to me.  i used to pull out my outfits to see what late hubby liked and didn't but it wasn't to prevent me from wearing anything -- just to see what he thought would look better on me as I went out!  

I don't think Andrei is controlling but I think that's the storyline they are pushing.  

Thanks.  that's what I saw too, but I doubted I had seen it all.  

[balisticnikki]

26 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

It's not a gay bar thing per se - Woo girls can be found anywhere there's alcohol.  I have many gay male friends, and I understand where the OP is coming from.  They were ostracized from regular clubs in many cases, so they started their own, and now some are being overrun by the same people who ostracized them prior (not referring to you - just an example).  And while I'm sure they don't care about some straight women coming in, there is a large contingent of straight women (again, not referring to you) who come to gay bars because they think it's funny.  They make fun of the people there, and make comments, and come in with their male genetalia bedecked stuff and rub their faces in it, etc.  That's not fun.  That's harassment.  Then they pack up and move on to the next bar.  They want to feel like they have a safe place to hang out too, and be themselves, and not be made fun of, etc.  

"The gays" are part of the evening's entertainment.

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, Granny58 said:

Thanks.  that's what I saw too, but I doubted I had seen it all.  

I think part of the reaction people have is that immediately after that scene, Libby says that Andrrrrreeiii is "strict."  

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, John M said:

I really get the impression that Nicole is on the higher functioning end of mentally disabled.

I get the impression that Nicole is a lazy, spoiled, manipulative bully whose intelligence is just fine...she just chooses not to do the hard work.  

Edited December 12, 2017 by Granny58
spelling

[CoachWristletJen]

Luis isn't going anywhere. He can take his morning dump on top of Molly, and then remind her to wash her hands before going downstairs and making him breakfast. 

I think that's been established.

Guaranteed, she'll be sitting there at the tell-all clutching his hand in those talons of hers cause she's one proud lady that don't care what the whirled thanks.

I probably shouldn't be giving him any ideas.

[Chickabiddy]

5 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

That's why I say Azan is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Everybody feels sorry for him but he is the one pulling all the strings and he is so insulting to Nicole who is very obviously delayed in some form or fashion. I think she's actually really trying to meet his requirements but she's just too dumb and doesn't have the drive to follow through. Diet and exercise are not easy when you have no knowledge and have never exercised before or eaten anything other than fries. So many people fail at weight loss. If it were as easy as Azan makes it seem, we'd all be models. 

Nicole wants Azan to love her and he doesn't. But I can tell she loves him and just wants him to value her as is. Maybe if he tried that, she'd become the Barbie he wants. I don't know why I feel so sorry for her but I do. Possibly because I know she's just a dumb little girl who wants to be loved and she's being taken advantage of, constantly put down, and ignored. 

Yeah, see, what I see is an adult ( a young adult) who is not afraid to throw her weight around *eyeroll* at home or with Azan. She bullies and manipulates her family into allowing her to take Mae to Morocco and in getting her father to sponsor Azan - a very significant financial undertaking. She is not afraid to burst into Azan's Aunt's house and demand to sleep with him. She disregards their customs, their routines, and starts embarrassing drama with Azan in front of his family and on the street, drama that leads to physical abuse.  He has asked her to to try to lose weight, try to be more active, try to eat better. She has made 0 effort. If all she wanted was to be loved, she would be bending over backwards to please her parents and to please Azan. She cheats on him..twice..right? She won;t even meet him half way. She would be acting more like a Darcy type to get his love if that was all she really wanted.. All I see from Nicole is a selfish, self absorbed bully who can't understand why her antics worksso well at home with her family, but not with Azan. 

[ethalfrida]

6 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I get the impression that Nicole is a lazy, spoiled, manipulative bully whose intelligence is just fine...she just chooses not to do the hard word.  

I totally agree with you.