S03.E08: Who Rules the Land of Denial?

[AuntiePam]

33 minutes ago, rose711 said:

No she meant the former Russian spy that was poisoned by radiation in London.

Alexander Litvinenko

There've been several poisonings starting in 2004 -- http://www.judicialwatch.org/bulletins/putins-poisons/ -- not that it matters to the story.

I think the body hanging from the tree, full of arrows, was a target practice mannequin.  Yuri and Golem wouldn't waste time hanging someone.

The appearance of Ray Wise (again) and the bowling alley in the middle of nowhere threw me for a loop.  I can't say that I like this much other-worldliness, but Hawley (and the Coens) have given me so much good entertainment, I won't fault them for taking us way out there. 

[Pike Ludwell]

Haven't seen the ep. yet, but I see from the picture that Leland makes an appearance. I wonder if it is the real Leland or a doppelganger from the black lodge.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

The first half was good, especially Nikki and Mr. Wrench escaping from the bus and their adventures in the woods.  I have some questions.  What was hanging from the tree--a mannequin of sorts for target practice for the hunters OR a very weird dead body (of one of the hunters)?  Then, the unfortunate people who slowed down to look at the bus (big mistake as we know from the past!), were chased quite a ways down the road before they were killed.  But, when Gloria arrived at the scene of the killing of that couple, why was it so close to the bus wreck?  She could walk easily from one crime scene on that highway to the other (and we could see the couple's van from the side of the bus).

I would guess the dummy hanging from the tree was used for target practice by the hunters who had the crossbows. If you recall, Yuri came across those hunters and took the crossbow away from them. I thought they probably had a camp somewhere nearby and they used that dummy for target practice before they went out hunting.

My guess as to the reason why the bus wreck was so close to the wreck of the van would be that it would reduce the costs of filming both vehicles. This is not a serious answer of course. It may be the truth.  But it's not really relevant to the plot.

Edited June 8, 2017 by MissBluxom

[shapeshifter]

I do think the Bowling Alley of Afterlife (potential name for a band or movie?) and Ray Wise's appearance were at least a tiny bit influenced by knowledge of the Twin Peaks reboot and great expectations for it, but, like @iMonrey, I bailed on the reboot after slogging through the second half of the season opener, so enough is enough of that.
I'm probably the only one here for whom the bowling alley scene hearkened back to the Stargate SG1 episode in which Daniel is in the equivalent Roadside Cafe of Afterlife.

Although Nikki Swango and Mr. Wrench (another band name?) are presumed dead, none of us will be terribly surprised if either (or Yuri) should show up at an opportune moment, am I right?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm probably the only one here for whom the bowling alley scene hearkened back to the Stargate SG1 episode in which Daniel is in the equivalent Roadside Cafe of Afterlife.

Of the last episode of Quantum Leap. It's not as ingenious as all that. 

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I thought it jumped the shark. The first 15 minutes were brilliant but then it turned into Twin Peaks, and they lost me. I just stopped watching the Twin Peaks relaunch because I'm not interested in nonsensical psycho babble that doesn't make any sense, I didn't want to see this show turned into that too. I don't get how the guy Gloria was talking to would be in the "bowling alley" either - does that mean Gloria is dead too? Is everyone dead? Is this The Sixth Sense? Is Bruce Willis going to show up?

It just feels like nothing can be taken at face value at this point. Are Gloria and Winnie really following Emmit around and pestering him or is he just stuck inside some kind of fever dream? Who was Gloria talking about when she mentioned Sy had been poisoned "Like that Russian Fella?" I don't remember any Russians being poisoned this season. 

And whoever writes this show has some sort of weird toilet obsession. I'm so tired of seeing people vomit, piss or just sitting on the commode. What's up with that?  

See - I get that there's an audience for that. But it feels like a bait and switch from the first seven episodes and it pisses me off because if it had been this enigmatic and other-worldly from the start I wouldn't have bothered. I'm not interested in being taken for a ride.

 

1 hour ago, Magic said:

I did like this episode of "Fargo" enough to keep watching.  But to me the writing seems like the writers are on some type of Improv activity and/or there are more than one writer per episode and one at least is out of sync with the others.  e.g. some parts are good and some are not Fargo-like.   It almost feels like the instructions to the writers are vague and brief like to fit a few Fargo elements in, such as in this episode Nikki and Mr. Wrench being chased in the woods with a few gruesome attacks thrown in, or killing the innocent bystanders who drove by the convict bus "accident".  After they decide which prior Fargo elements to include, then they have to come up with parts of the story, which often seems like it is on the fly to me, to try to tie all of the elements together.

But they are losing some Fargo absolutes.  For instance, Lester and Peggy would NEVER turn themselves in.  They NEVER accepted any wrongdoing.  So Emmitt turning himself in, is wrong.

And, as many posters have already mentioned, we already have had to suspend belief MANY times just to accept the plot to-date which is Fargo like.  But with the "bowling alley" (paraphrasing "so that's what it seems like to you"), Paul Marrane's speeches, and the end of Yuri etc., come on.  Unreality is more or less nodded to in Fargo, e.g. the spaceship(s) never land - and we don't deal with who is inside of them. Here we have an entire ethereal section in the bowling alley we have to actually accept and deal with, including the green VW bug get away.  This, in combination with the Improv feeling of the writing episode by episode, makes me continue to feel this is a shell of what it has been in the past.  The fact that there is nothing better on tv is a slight consolation but there is a fair amount of disappointment too.

Interesting that Gloria also met Paul Marrane on her trip to California.  But still this time, Paul seemed too all knowing and almost implied that Nikki and Mr. Wrench were going to be dead soon, at least, that is how it seemed to me.  And it would occur in some showdown with the evil ones where Nikki needs to convey the message Paul gave her.  But no wonder he had kind of a weird vibe in California too.

By this point I don't care if Varga et al. is with a Russian mob, I don't care about the Russians at all.  I don't care about the Cossacks, either and Yuri and his relationship to the mob of (un)dead who were waiting to talk to him is just too far from the main theme and too sparsely set up for me to give a damn about that either.

And I got lost in time with Sy.  Suddenly he has a beard in the hospital and the date is shown as 2011, but then in a few scenes Gloria is still "chief" although that is going to end in a few hours so it is only December 2010??? 

Good for Gloria in moving on and signing her divorce papers.  And her reward is that Emmitt happens to come in while she is still "chief" to give himself up.

I wish I could like this season more than I do.

I can certainly understand people not liking the supernatural elements of the show, because I usually get bored/irritated with that stuff as well, but I really enjoyed the bowling alley scene, because it was extremely well written and acted, and it was more an exercise in philosophy/theology to me than a plot device. Frankly, the past seasons' appearance of a flying saucer affecting who lived or died, or Malvo's supernatural ability to talk his way out of a Duluth police station, seemed more plot-drivey (iI that a word? What?No?) to me than anything we saw last night. Like I said, however, I can certainly understand why it isn't for everybody.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Bannon
spelling

[UncleChuck]

57 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

Once the calendar read 2011, Gloria was not shown as chief any longer.

Right.  She's no longer the chief as she reminded her friend and fellow "deputy" in that office scene.  She also mentioned that she has now been assigned to serving eviction notices and warrants now. 

***

I know this will never be answered in the show, but are there any ideas on how Yuri and his two henchmen would have the time and materials to build that huge ramp on the highway when the decision to add Nikki to that transport bus was just made at the last minute on Christmas eve?

[clarkbar]

I noticed someone mentioned having "Fargo dreams."  Last night I dreamed I was giving birth, and I delivered a cute little kitten.  Ray, is that you? 

I am enjoying this season, as I did the other two.  I can't rank them, as I have enjoyed them in such different ways.  One common thread for me is a real appreciation for the female characters.  Lots of really strong, appealing (even when they aren't the most virtuous or moral women) acting.

[teddysmom]

Quote

Oh, you really should.  It's a great movie!

But does something bad happen to the cat? I don't want that hanging over me the whole time. 

[luna1122]

1 minute ago, teddysmom said:

But does something bad happen to the cat? I don't want that hanging over me the whole time. 

Spoiler

A cat does meet a sad end. It's not graphic at all, but if you're hyper sensitive to that stuff, as I am, it's upsetting.

But it IS a really good film.

[Magic]

18 minutes ago, Bannon said:

 

I can certainly understand people not liking the supernatural elements of the show, because I usually get bored/irritated with that stuff as well, but I really enjoyed the bowling alley scene, because it was extremely well written and acted, and it was more an exercise in philosophy/theology to me than a plot device. Frankly, the past seasons' appearance of a flying saucer affecting who lived or died, or Malvo's supernatural ability to talk his way out of a Duluth police station, seemed more plot-drivey (iI that a word? What?No?) to me than anything we saw last night. Like I said, however, I can certainly understand why it isn't for everybody.

I did actually enjoy the bowling alley scene.  My issues are more with how the writing and plot devices this season seem more on the fly, not as well fleshed out, etc. and in some cases go beyond what I expect of is "allowed" in Fargo.  Where by allowed I mean more is what I have come to expect from Fargo, or the characteristics of Fargo, than can you do it or not.

13 minutes ago, UncleChuck said:

I know this will never be answered in the show, but are there any ideas on how Yuri and his two henchmen would have the time and materials to build that huge ramp on the highway when the decision to add Nikki to that transport bus was just made at the last minute on Christmas eve?

hahaha, I think this is one of those suspension of belief moments that they are taking to the extreme this season, but are part of Fargo.

14 minutes ago, UncleChuck said:

Right.  She's no longer the chief as she reminded her friend and fellow "deputy" in that office scene.  She also mentioned that she has now been assigned to serving eviction notices and warrants now. 

The confusing thing to me was that while I realize her fellow deputy is not the sharpest tool in the shed, wouldn't he have quit calling her chief by that time?  So I thought it was Dec. 31st, her last day of being chief, so he had not yet gotten used to not calling her chief.  And if it was Dec. 31 then that caused the bearded Sy hospital scene in 2011 to also confuse me as to the time frame.  Thanks to this forum for helping me to keep things straight.

1 hour ago, AuntiePam said:

I think the body hanging from the tree, full of arrows, was a target practice mannequin.  Yuri and Golem wouldn't waste time hanging someone.

With all the beer cans around this seems true, but kind of weird that their target practice mannequin was a human and not like e.g. a deer.

[luna1122]

3 minutes ago, Magic said:

 

The confusing thing to me was that while I realize her fellow deputy is not the sharpest tool in the shed, wouldn't he have quit calling her chief by that time?  

That's why she told him 'You can't call me that anymore. I'm a deputy, just like you'.

[teddysmom]

Quote

But it IS a really good film

But the problem is the cat looks like my cat a little.   If I see it's on I'll try to watch and just tell myself, "the real cat didn't die". 

[AzureOwl]

2 hours ago, AuntiePam said:

I think she was referencing the real world -- the people Putin has poisoned.

2 hours ago, rose711 said:

No she meant the former Russian spy that was poisoned by radiation in London.

Alexander Litvinenko

Those are the same thing. 

[Eulipian 5k]

So now Sy will be joining with Ray and Nikki to turn Varga's millions into thousands. So sad Sy. Sob....the world.

[MisterBluxom]

51 minutes ago, UncleChuck said:

Right.  She's no longer the chief as she reminded her friend and fellow "deputy" in that office scene.  She also mentioned that she has now been assigned to serving eviction notices and warrants now. 

***

I know this will never be answered in the show, but are there any ideas on how Yuri and his two henchmen would have the time and materials to build that huge ramp on the highway when the decision to add Nikki to that transport bus was just made at the last minute on Christmas eve?

Even though she was not shown as chief, it wasn't all that bad because the moron chief wasn't shown at all. If past seasons are any guide, he will either never be shown again. Or, hopefully, will just be shown one more time when he is fired or quits because of his complete incompetence. As someone fairly clever once said, "He is a real shit cop."

[Magic]

8 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Even though she was not shown as chief, it wasn't all that bad because the moron chief wasn't shown at all. If past seasons are any guide, he will either never be shown again. Or, hopefully, will just be shown one more time when he is fired or quits because of his complete incompetence. As someone fairly clever once said, "He is a real shit cop."

I think he will be killed in the coming massacre leaving the way for Gloria to become Chief (this just follows from previous seasons of Fargo), which I see from the episode 9 preview will likely include the widow Goldfarb.

[ChipBach]

47 minutes ago, Magic said:

The confusing thing to me was that while I realize her fellow deputy is not the sharpest tool in the shed, wouldn't he have quit calling her chief by that time?  So I thought it was Dec. 31st, her last day of being chief, so he had not yet gotten used to not calling her chief.  And if it was Dec. 31 then that caused the bearded Sy hospital scene in 2011 to also confuse me as to the time frame.  Thanks to this forum for helping me to keep things straight.

When they opened in the hospital with Sy, the white board stated that it was March something, 2011.  Three months went by.  Sy should have grown the beard, much better look for him.

I must have liked the episode because I kept track of how much time was left during the thing.  Unlike Twin Peaks where I try to see how soon it will end.  (To the credit of the writers for TP, they have found a way to bend an hour into what feels like three...)

Two more left for Fargo - bring it on!

Edited June 8, 2017 by ChipBach

[tennisgurl]

Is anyone that surprised that possible Purgatory in the Fargo universe takes the form of a Bowling Alley?

Honestly, I love when this show gets weird and supernatural (even the more "normal" Coen brothers movies usually have a magical realism vibe) and I've been waiting all season for something like this to happen, so I was in TV heaven during the Magical Bowling Alley sequence. I thought everything from the start where Mr. Wrench and Nikki escape from Yuri and his wolf henchmen, to them escaping into the woods and fighting off the bad guys, to Nikki meeting up with Ray Wise and adorable kitty Ray, to Yuri getting his magical karmic retribution, it was great. My take? I think the Bowling Alley is some form of Purgatory, and Nikki and Mr. Wrench stopped by after having a near death experience, but Ray Wise allowed them to leave, because they had some stuff Ray Wise wanted them to do in the Real World, plus, on a more philosophical level, they had been judged as Not That Bad, or at least having the ability to change for the better. Ray Wise even said that "they" wanted Mr. Wrench to stick around, but he talked them out of it because Ray Wise thought that he was on the "right path", and we did see him saving Nikki when he didn't really have to, so maybe he was right. We also know that, while Nikki wasn't really a good person, but she did love Ray (human Ray, not whatever Ray Wise is) so maybe she does have the capacity for growth. Yuri, on the other hand, is just an awful monster with no goodness in him, so he gets killed by the ghosts of the Jewish victims of Yuri's Cossack ancestors.

As for who Ray Wise was, I don't think he's the Devil, he doesn't really seem evil enough. My guess is the Wandering Jew (with the name, and the Hebrew stuff) or some kind of Old Testament angel. Either way, he isn't a normal guy. My only complaint about that scene is the lack of Sam Elliot.

I really liked Nikki and Mr. Wrench together, and I'm really glad they brought him back, as he is one of my favorite Quirky Henchmen characters on this show. I really liked the intro scene where we see everything from his point of view, and everything is silent. It was a really nice touch and a way to remind the audience who he is and what his deal is. I'm hoping they aren't dead, or that they wont die after they deliver their message from the Bowling Alley in the sky.

The rest wasn't bad by any means, but it all paled in comparison to that whole first sequence. It was all rather standard stuff for Fargo. Its too bad that I'm having trouble connecting with most of the other characters this season, even though the actors are really doing a good job. I think, other than Nikki, Sy is my favorite, and now he's in a coma. Oh well, I'm still in.

[Razzberry]

We finally get the dreaded scene of Varga on the toilet.  I'm just thankful it was sans sound effects.

[rose711]

  1 hour ago, rose711 said:

No she meant the former Russian spy that was poisoned by radiation in London.

Alexander Litvinenko

There've been several poisonings starting in 2004 -- http://www.judicialwatch.org/bulletins/putins-poisons/ -- not that it matters to the story.

I think the body hanging from the tree, full of arrows, was a target practice mannequin.  Yuri and Golem wouldn't waste time hanging someone.

The appearance of Ray Wise (again) and the bowling alley in the middle of nowhere threw me for a loop.  I can't say that I like this much other-worldliness, but Hawley (and the Coens) have given me so much good entertainment, I won't fault them for taking us way out there. 

Oh thanks for that link. I thought she meant a specific person.

[rose711]

  12 minutes ago, Magic said:

 

The confusing thing to me was that while I realize her fellow deputy is not the sharpest tool in the shed, wouldn't he have quit calling her chief by that time?  

That's why she told him 'You can't call me that anymore. I'm a deputy, just like you'.

I thought maybe maybe that was the writers reminding us.

[rose711]

  1 hour ago, Magic said:

 

Interesting that Gloria also met Paul Marrane on her trip to California.  But still this time, Paul seemed too all knowing and almost implied that Nikki and Mr. Wrench were going to be dead soon, at least, that is how it seemed to me.  And it would occur in some showdown with the evil ones where Nikki needs to convey the message Paul gave her.  But no wonder he had kind of a weird vibe in California too.

 I do think we're supposed to surmise that Nikki and Mr. Wrench are already dead.

  5 minutes ago, Magic said:

 

And I got lost in time with Sy.  Suddenly he has a beard in the hospital and the date is shown as 2011, but then in a few scenes Gloria is still "chief" although that is going to end in a few hours so it is only December 2010??? 

.

Once the calendar read 2011, Gloria was not shown as chief any longer.

I don't be think she's dead.

[J-Man]

Was anyone else annoyed by the fact that we had a time jump of over two months, but very little information about what has transpired during that period? Surely there must have been some developments with respect to the local crime spree. Pretty much all we heard was that the Varga-Stussy empire has apparently been thriving. But what about the widow Goldfarb's offer?

[seacliffsal]

I really enjoyed the opening sequence and the start of the mayhem that is to come.  I believe that Yuri killed the father and son with the crossbows, and then the innocent bystanders were killed; not forgetting the dead from the bus crash.  It will be interesting to see what happens once Emmitt is in custody (well, interesting as long as Varga doesn't monologue about it-I'm sure that I'm missing important plot points as I just don't listen to him anymore).

I was surprised that Sy drank the coffee/tea, but he may have been distracted by the 'five million dollars' which I'm surprised he seemed to believe.

The 3 month time period was enough to allow Nikki and Mr. Wrench to heal so that they could start tormenting Emmitt.  It was very telling when Emmitt spoke about Ray and how Ray would just follow him around and ask him to play with him.  It also leads me to believe that Emmitt very knowingly took advantage of Ray as Ray really looked up to him.  

[becauseIsaidso]

14 hours ago, Bannon said:

Nikki and Wrench might be dead (Wrench, especially....ouch!), but maybe the VW was a ride back to the world. As much as I disliked the homage to season 1 last week, I loved the homage to The Big Lebowski this week.

I really thought Nikki and Wrench were dead (AFTER I got over wishing all kinds of hell on anyone who could have even thought of doing something evil/nasty/gross to that kitten) until I saw them get into a green VW - the color did not seem to indicate death, altho both of them MUST have been close to demise after all that injury and exposure to the elements, so I am still hopeful they/or at least Nikki are/is alive....but, seeing Yuri, at the bar, with blood still running down his neck, I became hopeful that the bowling alley was the transition place - maybe purgatory - where there is still a chance for a soul who has a possibility of redemption. This was the first time I actually believed Nikki was not just using Ray, and I had always had a less than horrible impression of Wrench, so I like to think they got a second chance - which is not to say they will be successful, but at least it is there for them, another chance at making the right choice. I really liked this episode.

[FormerMod-a1]

The full beard threw me off too, since it was still winter.  Then I thought it was only 1 month, then 4 months, then I gave up and went with it.  I know there was a time jump in the show, but the Sy jump seemed to be somewhere in between, but I'm probably wrong.

[fellini]

I didn't like the bowling alley scene. I don't like confusing scenes that don't make sense and that scene definitely didn't make any sense at all.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, clarkbar said:

I noticed someone mentioned having "Fargo dreams."  Last night I dreamed I was giving birth, and I delivered a cute little kitten.  Ray, is that you?…

Ha ha ha ha!

And I am totally at piece and rest assured that no misfortune will befall the kitten.

 

2 hours ago, Magic said:

…but kind of weird that their target practice mannequin was a human and not like e.g. a deer.

Seriously! But it seemed so at home in Fargo-verse that I couldn't figure out why it seemed a bit off to me until I read your post. Heh.

 

2 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

So now Sy will be joining with Ray and Nikki to turn Varga's millions into thousands. So sad Sy. Sob....the world.

Yes, so sad. But may Varga's millions be turned into pennies! Or, better yet, dust! Or debt! 
Sheesh. If the mission was to make Varga such an irredeemable character that no bad end for him would seem too bad to the audience, well, mission accomplished.

 

1 hour ago, becauseIsaidso said:

I really thought Nikki and Wrench were dead…until I saw them get into a green VW - the color did not seem to indicate death…

Good catch! Green is the color of new life, and it was otherwise an oddly bright choice for the scene.

[iMonrey]

Quote

My issues are more with how the writing and plot devices this season seem more on the fly, not as well fleshed out, etc. and in some cases go beyond what I expect of is "allowed" in Fargo.  Where by allowed I mean more is what I have come to expect from Fargo, or the characteristics of Fargo, than can you do it or not.

Agreed. It's not that the bowling alley scene wasn't good, it was that it was out of place. Like when you're watching a drama show and all of a sudden it's a musical. I mean, I'm have no problem with artsy-fartsy if it fits. I don't think it fit. I think it would have fit if we'd gotten more of a taste of that sort of thing through the first seven episodes. You don't tell a straightforward story (more or less) for seven episodes and then all of a sudden go supernatural/metaphysical on your audience. That's what I mean by bait and switch. 

And I know the defense here is "Oh, well, it's the Coen brothers, it just like such-and-such movie they did" blah blah blah. That's not an excuse, though. Those movies didn't start out one way and then take a sudden turn into the twilight zone - you knew what you were in for from the start. 

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, Magic said:

I think he will be killed in the coming massacre leaving the way for Gloria to become Chief (this just follows from previous seasons of Fargo), which I see from the episode 9 preview will likely include the widow Goldfarb.

I'd like to see the moron chief get what he deserves - whatever that may be.

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, fellini said:

I didn't like the bowling alley scene. I don't like confusing scenes that don't make sense and that scene definitely didn't make any sense at all.

It doesn't make 'literal' sense, but I don't think the writers expect it to be taken literally.

(P.S. I would have thought someone with the name "Fellini" would appreciate that scene.)  [smile]

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

The full beard threw me off too, since it was still winter.  Then I thought it was only 1 month, then 4 months, then I gave up and went with it.  I know there was a time jump in the show, but the Sy jump seemed to be somewhere in between, but I'm probably wrong.

When Sy drank the tea it was Christmas.  When you see him in the hospital it's March of the next year.  So a few months have passed - enough time for him to have grown a beard while he was in a coma.  And Gloria is no longer police chief.

The third guy in the mask on the bus was Meemo?  Yuri was in the wolf mask, Golem in the pig mask, and Meemo in the unicorn?  How did he get away?

Ray Wise only seems to appear to help out women.  Why would that be?

[Ellaria]

11 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I have to agree with those who are over Varga. At first I found him quite menacing because I couldn't figure out just what he was up to. Now I'm super over him for the same reason. Every time he opens his mouth to give some big speech or tell a meaningful story, I just zone out. I'm just not interested any more. I'm here for Nikki, and also the delightful tag team of Gloria and Winnie. 

I don't know who's fucking with Emmit, but my first instinct is Varga. I have no idea why, though. Maybe he wants Emmit to completely lose it, or actually go confess, so he can take over completely? 

Count me among those who are over Vaga. I tune out whatever he is saying. Most of it ends up being nonsense. The writers may have pushed it too far with this character. Evil should never become boring.

I don't think it's Varga that's messing with Emmit. Doesn't seem to be his style. He tends to be more direct and menacing.

I think that the bowling alley was Purgatory and that Ray Wise gave Nikki and Wrench another chance. Maybe...maybe it's Nikki that's messing with Emmit but if so, I don't understand her long term plan. Extortion is my best guess but she wouldn't know that he was involved in Ray's death. 

I like Gloria and her pal Winnie but I think it's taking way too long for them to pull the clues together. (Too long in TV time not real life.) I was hoping that Gloria would be further along in the investigations but she gets "shot down" by male superiors at every turn. Glad that Emmit came to her with his "confession." I'll be interested to see what it is he confesses to.

Finally, I'm sad to see Sy in a coma. Hope that's not his end. And that kitten had the sweetest little face. 

And maybe we can go one full episode with seeing bodily functions on full display.

[annzeepark914]

All I can say at this point is--nothing bad better happen to that kitten.  This season has really been, for the most part (IMO of course) really disappointing. Crappy dialogue in OTT rural Minnie-soooo-tahhh accents + scatological scenes for the hell-of-it + surreal metaphysical scenes + never-ending monologues that go off the deep end.  I'm not a Twin Peaks fan so I guess this season wasn't written with folks like me in mind.  I sure hope next season (if there IS one) will return to interesting stories like Seasons I and II.

[AimingforYoko]

12 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I have to agree with those who are over Varga. At first I found him quite menacing because I couldn't figure out just what he was up to. Now I'm super over him for the same reason.

Varga lives by the credo, "If you can't dazzle them with you brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit." Varga's monologues are to keep your eyes off the ball, which differentiates him from Mike Milligan who felt he had to keep proving how smart he was because of how his organization (and society at large) viewed black men.

[Bama]

42 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

The third guy in the mask on the bus was Meemo?  Yuri was in the wolf mask, Golem in the pig mask, and Meemo in the unicorn?  How did he get away?

Meemo took the panel van and followed the poor passerby couple.  He executed them.  He probably took off so he wouldn't be caught at the scene when cops showed up.  I'm guessing he went back to the Trailer Truck of Evil to wait for Yuri and Golem to finish the job on Nikki.

[Spartan Girl]

Ray the kitten was adorable.

That bowling alley scene was weird. Okay, so maybe Nikki did care about Ray, but it was love with calculation. It doesn't change the fact that she was the one goading him into doing all that stuff to Emmit, which ultimately led to his doom. And judging by the sequence of her reliving their last conversation, she is definitely feeling guilt over it.

Still, she and Mr. Wrench make quite the team.

I know Emmitt is breaking the cardinal laws of the show by confessing, but as I said before, he doesn't strike me as the same kind of selfish sociopath that Lester was -- even if he was actively involved with poisoning Sy. And I can't help pitying him, since my family has a similar situation with a black sheep relative that feels like they're entitled to everything. Last week, when Emmitt confessed to Vargas that felt "free" now that Ray was dead, despite the obvious guilt and anguish...I definitely could relate to that.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[benteen]

What a strange episode.  I agree that the first 15 minutes was great and really well done.  The return of Mr. Wrench was a pleasant surprise (I know he was there last week) and him and Nikki made a good team.  Though what a waste of DJ Qualls.  Always appreciate a scene that takes place in a bowling alley as I used to work in one.  Nice to see Ray Wise return (a show like Fargo doesn't cast an actor like that to use as a throwaway character in a single episode like they did in episode 3 of this season, which he was good in) though that whole thing was weird.

Pet peeve....why the hell wasn't Sy carrying a gun after everything he's been through with Varga and his thugs?

Edited June 9, 2017 by benteen

[Cthulhudrew]

12 hours ago, HollyG said:

I would add "Reaper" into the Leftovers/Twin Peaks/Fargo mix. In Reaper, Ray Wise played the devil and would turn up at odd moments and have similar conversations with the main character .. (he was making him do his bidding to repay his parents debt). Ray Wise plays all of these characters very well. 

Don't forget Father Westley from Psych, who also gave biblical advice. :D

[rose711]

What a strange episode.  I agree that the first 15 minutes was great and really well done.  The return of Mr. Wrench was a pleasant surprise (I know he was there last week) and him and Nikki made a good team.  Though what a waste of DJ Qualls.  Always appreciate a scene that takes place in a bowling alley as I used to work in one.  Nice to see Ray Wise return (a show like Fargo doesn't cast an actor like that to use as a throwaway character in a single episode like they did in episode 3 of this season, which he was good in) though that whole thing was weird.

Pet peeve....why the hell wasn't Sy carrying a gun after everything he's been through with Varga and his thugs?

What would Sy do with a gun? I don't understand. If he shoots one of them, the others will go after him and they are trained professional killers. If he shots them and escapes successfully, what will he tell the cops?
Sy should have taken his money and run while he had the chance. Maybe right after he abandoned Nikki in the snow.

[AlwaysWatching]

Sorry to say that I have only liked one episode so far. The one where Gloria went to California. Wasn't that the one that told the sci-fi story written by her step-father? Too lazy to look.  That little creature always saying "I can help."  About the only thing that would save this season for me, a little bit, is if Gloria turned out to be a space alien-because she can help!  Not being serious.
 

[WaltersHair]

BTW, I half expected one of the sheriffs at the bus crash scene to do a Tommy Lee Jones: "I want a search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in this area."

But NO. The police are once again the Keystone cops. Seriously why are Gloria and Winnie the only competent police for 200 square miles? Very frustrating this season.

[rose711]

  14 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I have to agree with those who are over Varga. At first I found him quite menacing because I couldn't figure out just what he was up to. Now I'm super over him for the same reason. Every time he opens his mouth to give some big speech or tell a meaningful story, I just zone out. I'm just not interested any more. I'm here for Nikki, and also the delightful tag team of Gloria and Winnie. 

I don't know who's fucking with Emmit, but my first instinct is Varga. I have no idea why, though. Maybe he wants Emmit to completely lose it, or actually go confess, so he can take over completely? 

Count me among those who are over Vaga. I tune out whatever he is saying. Most of it ends up being nonsense. The writers may have pushed it too far with this character. Evil should never become boring.

I don't think it's Varga that's messing with Emmit. Doesn't seem to be his style. He tends to be more direct and menacing.

I think that the bowling alley was Purgatory and that Ray Wise gave Nikki and Wrench another chance. Maybe...maybe it's Nikki that's messing with Emmit but if so, I don't understand her long term plan. Extortion is my best guess but she wouldn't know that he was involved in Ray's death. 

I like Gloria and her pal Winnie but I think it's taking way too long for them to pull the clues together. (Too long in TV time not real life.) I was hoping that Gloria would be further along in the investigations but she gets "shot down" by male superiors at every turn. Glad that Emmit came to her with his "confession." I'll be interested to see what it is he confesses to.

Finally, I'm sad to see Sy in a coma. Hope that's not his end. And that kitten had the sweetest little face. 

And maybe we can go one full episode with seeing bodily functions on full display.

I agree. I was over Varga at least a week ago and maybe earlier. He's too one dimensional, even though he isn't supposed to be, I can't help seeing him as having no depth. Same with the new chief.
I completely the technical mastery (from every department) and the complexity of the show;but, surprisingly, the story is so preachy and disjointed that I am not enjoying the main part of the show.
The story feels thrown together and maybe if the writers weren't trying to make current social commentary. We get it: people claim that Bernie Sanders was disliked because he was Jewish; people claim that Hillary was blocked from power because of incompetent men; the Russian connection couldn't be more blatant. Sy crying " the world has changed."
I know there are more layers than that in the story but those are the screaming headlines. I'm not taking a political position, I'm just saying the story would be better served if it was a telling a story apart from heavy handed
political statements. It's just too much in my opinion.

[Stratego]

6 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Even though she was not shown as chief, it wasn't all that bad because the moron chief wasn't shown at all. If past seasons are any guide, he will either never be shown again. Or, hopefully, will just be shown one more time when he is fired or quits because of his complete incompetence. As someone fairly clever once said, "He is a real shit cop."

"The Boss" is a sheriff, an elected "top cop" of the county.  Eden Valley eliminated its municipal police force and opted (paid) for service from the county.  Gloria and (dimwit) were absorbed into the county PD as deputies.

34 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

BTW, I half expected one of the sheriffs at the bus crash scene to do a Tommy Lee Jones: "I want a search of every gas station, residence, warehouse, farmhouse, henhouse, outhouse and doghouse in this area."

But NO. The police are once again the Keystone cops. Seriously why are Gloria and Winnie the only competent police for 200 square miles? Very frustrating this season.

Those were US Marshals.  They are there because it was a prisoner transfer bus--their case.  Gloria is a Mary Sue character whose purpose is to be the protagonist for the target audience.

[WaltersHair]

Quote

Those were US Marshals.  They are there because it was a prisoner transfer bus--their case.  Gloria is a Mary Sue character whose purpose is to be the protagonist for the target audience

Believe me, I dislike Mary Sues (see my post in The Handmaid's Tale) but Gloria is a bad Mary Sue. I went from being neutral to just feeling blah about her. But I've hung in there this long, I have to root for someone.

[scrb]

Thing is, Varga's henchman aren't really that smooth about covering up their tracks.

Besides the carnage left and the bus and the bystanders, there should be two hunters dead.

Then trails of blood for Yuri, Nikki and Wrench and the decapitated head of Qualls.  Given the body count, you'd think the feds would be running down any links to the Qualls character.  Maybe the US won't have much luck finding out about the backgrounds of Russians.  But you'd think they'd be taking over any kind of investigation.

Even if Emmett comes into Gloria's police station, they'd have reason to suspect that the prison bus hijacking was related to Swango and Stussy.  So if not Gloria, wouldn't her boss call in the feds?

Maybe Varga is just too slick for American law enforcement.  Maybe he has some special poison which can put Sy into a coma for months but not leave any kind of traces that forensics can detect.

[scrb]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

As for who Ray Wise was, I don't think he's the Devil, he doesn't really seem evil enough. My guess is the Wandering Jew (with the name, and the Hebrew stuff) or some kind of Old Testament angel. Either way, he isn't a normal guy. My only complaint about that scene is the lack of Sam Elliot.

Actually, there was a really underrated (and under-watched) show called Reaper where Ray Wise played the devil and in that role he was really affable, laughing and smiling a lot.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0955322/?ref_=m_nmfmd_act_104

[LittleIggy]

I freaking love Ray Wise! He steals any scene he is in (okay, Ray the kitten did some stealing, too). The bowling lanes reminded me of The Big Lebowski, of course. And the Stranger (Sam Elliott).

So glad Emmitt didn't swallow those pills (I was yelling at the TV). Poor Sy. :-(

9 minutes ago, scrb said:

Actually, there was a really underrated (and under-watched) show called Reaper where Ray Wise played the devil and in that role he was really affable, laughing and smiling a lot.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0955322/?ref_=m_nmfmd_act_104

I loved that show. Ray Wise was perfect. He has a million dollar smile.

Edited June 9, 2017 by LittleIggy

[Black Knight]

6 hours ago, J-Man said:

Was anyone else annoyed by the fact that we had a time jump of over two months, but very little information about what has transpired during that period? Surely there must have been some developments with respect to the local crime spree. Pretty much all we heard was that the Varga-Stussy empire has apparently been thriving. But what about the widow Goldfarb's offer?

Sy was the one who wanted the deal with the widow Goldfarb, and he's currently out of commission. Emmitt was never really interested in selling to her.