S34.E13: Parting Is Such Sweet Sorrow

[Calamity Jane]

11 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

These players are playing WAY too hard and outsmarting themselves.  I think they have swallowed too much of Probst's "game changers" Kook Aid.

 

I don't know if "Kook Aid" was a typo or if I've missed something in the culture, but either way, it made me laugh out loud because it's so apt.  

[After7Only]

1 hour ago, Runningwild said:

I didnt think Michaela was amusing in that deleted scene at all. And she was lying about her interact with Culpepper. And Cirie pointed out that Michaela still hasn't learned and still treats people like crap. 

 

As as far as the whole JT/Michaela spat - Sandra egged that on. And Michaela was laying around demanding things then too. Honestly I don't remember seeing her work or help out around camp. 

Sandra egged it on because she knew JT didn't like Michaela.  And at that point we'd already seen him make negative remarks about her.  Sandra also confirmed during the tribal council that Michaela did a lot of work around camp.  

Re: the #gofish scene,  We only saw 30 seconds of what was definitely a much longer conversation.  What was left on the cutting room floor is most likely the conversation that Michaela and culpepper were referring to in the later scenes.  I don't think either were liars.  

[Guest]

23 hours ago, vb68 said:

That second vote made my head spin. I feel like I'm going to need to watch it two or three times to get the full understanding of the moves.

And I was still scratching my head on why Cirie voted Andrea out.

I don't like the new format where we just see the competition,  then the tribal council. I think this is my last survivor year.

[Mumbles]

When will this show lose its hard-on for Cochrane? They speak of him in such reverential tones. This is the guy who's using his Harvard Law degree to write for "Kevin Can Wait" for cry eye.

"Diva" is such a dog-whistle word on this show. This is the second ep where Culpeper referred to Michaela as one, and on an earlier season, another middle aged white guy referred to a black female contestant as such, even writing in when voting her off (I think it was the awful Thailand season, damn I've been watching this show for a long time!)

[LanceM]

Yes it was Thailand and Clay wrote on his vote "Denver Diva" referring to Ghandia.  Probst had no idea who the Denver Diva was so he had to ask who wrote the vote and to clarify who he was voting for and them told him to never do it again.

[DrivingSideways]

27 minutes ago, LanceM said:

Yes it was Thailand and Clay wrote on his vote "Denver Diva" referring to Ghandia.  Probst had no idea who the Denver Diva was so he had to ask who wrote the vote and to clarify who he was voting for and them told him to never do it again.

I forgot about that!  Gosh, Clay was such a buffoon.  That was a really uncomfortable season, just a lot of unlikeable people...

I felt so bad for Cirie.  She really got screwed.  Is this the only reward that wasn't transferrable?  If so, that's pretty serendipitous that it got played out in this way.  Sarah seems very humorless and constantly has a worried look on her face, but I respect the way she's playing the game and she thought quickly on her feet when Cirie tried to blindside her with the vote.  Taking out Michaela may have been a pyrrhic victory, she should have just gone for Cirie, but maybe Tai wouldn't agree to that.

Either way, great episode, I am enjoying this season.  Probst is irritating but he's an integral part of the show for me.  I'll keep him :-) 

[Alapaki]

2 hours ago, dkb said:

She wasn't articulating what she wanted properly, and Brad already doesn't like her, so of course he's going to see it in the worse way possible.

She wasn't trying to blackmail him but trying to get him to go fishing and selling it like if you go fishing then people will realize how valuable you are and keep you around, I'm only trying to secretly help you here Brad. 

I thought she was trying to act all buddy buddy with Brad and trying to show him that she's helping him. Obviously it missed the mark by a mile.

Maybe this is my own anti-Michaela bias.  But the way I saw it Michaela was basically saying "hey, you're getting voted out next, so why don't you be a dear and go fishing so we'll have something to eat when you're gone."  In other words, it was more of a "now go get your shine box" statement.

And that interview with Michaela that's linked upthread just demonstrates to me that Michaela has a huge chip on her shoulder.  I don't think we saw any evidence of comments or actions that demonstrate that the other players held the opinions or attitudes towards her that she attributes to them.  

[dkb]

3 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

Maybe this is my own anti-Michaela bias.  But the way I saw it Michaela was basically saying "hey, you're getting voted out next, so why don't you be a dear and go fishing so we'll have something to eat when you're gone."  In other words, it was more of a "now go get your shine box" statement.

And that interview with Michaela that's linked upthread just demonstrates to me that Michaela has a huge chip on her shoulder.  I don't think we saw any evidence of comments or actions that demonstrate that the other players held the opinions or attitudes towards her that she attributes to them.  

I'm not 100% sure where the best place to respond to this would be so I'm going to quote you @Alapaki in the Michaela thread.

[LoveLeigh]

deleted, found the answers upthread

Edited May 19, 2017 by DakotaLavender
answered on page 3 by Lady Chatts

[Rachel RSL]

22 hours ago, AftermathTV said:

A jury of women will never award Brad Culpepper a million dollars. 

I think, depending on who he's sitting next to, they absolutely would.

21 hours ago, millennium said:

I thought it was just me.   I don't like her face.   I'm also turned off by lying and conniving in someone who identifies as a police officer.

Survivor isn't real life, it's a game. When you play Monopoly, you try to get everybody else's money. When you play Survivor, you have to stab people in the back.  I doubt any of these people lie and scheme in their everyday lives. Should police officers not be allowed to play to win? That's BS, in my humble opinion.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[Alapaki]

6 hours ago, blackwing said:

TPTB will never ban the whispering.  Jeffy in particular seems to absolutely love it.  He sits there with this huge smile of amazement and wonder, like he's a teen watching porn for the first time.  You can almost see the thought bubble over his head proclaiming, "Wow!  THIS is what great TV is.  I smell Emmy!!!!!"

I agree.  It does increase the suspense for us as to just what's going to happen.  But, by the same token, it can make the results very difficult to understand. What would be awesome would be if they posted clips online that captured the audio of each of the whispered conversations so we could hear what was said and try to make sense of each player's votes.

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I agree, I think he tries too much to influence the game.  He doesn't seem to realise that the star of the show is the competition itself, and not him.  He does too much to remind viewers that he is the host, what with his comments during challenges, his constant obsession with male contestants, and his completely unnecessary commentary such as "Is Cirie going to jump or climb down?  Cirie!!!  DO IT!!!"

I've always had a problem with Jeff.  And he keeps getting worse.  And I know Cirie tends to be a fan-favorite.  But this season it really seems like Jeff is trying single-handedly to craft a narrative for a FTC argument for Cirie (over-coming obstacles, yadayada).  

I mean: "that time we all banded together to help Cirie overcome the difficulty of that swimming challenge and helped her triumph over a hurdle she thought was insurmountable" plays a lot differently than "that time Cirie blew the challenge for us because she can't even doggy-paddle and couldn't heft herself onto the floating dock".  And the fact that the former was allowed to play out instead of ending the challenge on the latter was all Probst's doing.

[sadiegirl1999]

11 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I missed Troyzan's reaction though. I missed his face during the Michaela vote, too. I'm gonna need to go rewatch because I love me some Troyzan reactions!

I'm kicking myself for deleting the episode, or I'd take a screen shot.

In fact, everyone who voted was making great faces but Troyzan's looked like "angry if I knew how to be angry" face.

[SourK]

11 hours ago, mishap said:

I am confused why Sarah gave Cirie the advantage in the first place.    Sarah seemed to understand that is was non- transferable, so what good did it do, for Cirie to hold onto it?   Even is Sarah was voted out of the game, Cirie could not have used that advantage in the future, right? 

Honestly, I think it was one of those instances where someone wants to make a gesture without actually risking anything, and they build it up to be more than it is. So, Sarah convinced herself it was some awesome act of trust to let Cirie hold the advantage for a few hours when really it was meaningless. That's not a very satisfying explanation, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the truth.

5 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Yes. Sarah certainly does seem to be very smart.  But, how smart was it for her to give or loan her advantage to Cirie? Did she know for certain that Cirie would give it back to her if and when she asked for it back? My guess is that Cirie could have just refused to return it. What would have happened then?  I don't think anyone would have ever forced Cirie to return it to Sarah.  I know the advantage could not be transferred. But when Sarah gave it to Cirie and then asked for it back, would Cirie have been forced to return it?  If so, who would have forced her?  I don't think the situation has ever come up before where one player gave or loaned something to a 2nd player and then asked for it back and the 2nd player refused to return it.

I think that, once Sarah asked to have it back, if Cirie hadn't given to her, that could be considered "stealing" it, which was also not allowed, according to the rules.

4 hours ago, simplyme said:

According to Michaela's interview, Sarah told Cirie she was going to give her the steal-a-vote advantage earlier in the day, but she only did so right before TC. So it's less about Cirie's reading comprehension than Sarah not giving her the time to read it.

Michaela also clarifies in that interview that Sarah did know it was nontransferable and said that right away, and when Jeff seemed to be waffling Troyzan made a comment about "nontransferable means nontransferable."

This is interesting. If Jeff was waffling about it, then that better explains to me why production didn't try to explain the rules as soon as this idea came up. Also, if Sarah didn't give the advantage to Cirie until the last minute, they might have held back on saying anything in case it was all a bluff and nothing ever came of it.

In other words, maybe the real problem was that the producers forgot what they wrote in the instructions, and didn't actually know what would happen if Cirie went through with her plan.

This has got me thinking, though. When was the last time somebody gave somebody else an idol -- like, actually handed it to them before tribal council -- as opposed to playing the idol for that person at tribal council? There's a possibility it happens all the time and I just don't remember, but now I wonder if maybe there's a rule that the idol holder has to be the one to play it?

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

I think, depending on who he's sitting next to, they absolutely would.

Survivor isn't real life, it's a game. When you play Monopoly, you try to get everybody else's money. When you play Survivor, you have to stab people in the back.  I doubt any of these people lie and scheme in their everyday lives. Should police officers not be allowed to play to win? That's BS, in my humble opinion.

Brad could win against Troy and Tai, and who knows, maybe against Sarah.  I don't think he'd beat Cirie.  Aubry's a big question mark, but I think he'd beat her, too, but some of the jurors seem to be giving her a little credit.  So maybe she's playing a better game than we're seeing.  As the rest of your post-I had to laugh about it because my mom (whose watched this show from the beginning, like me) doesn't like Cirie because she considers her two faced, and Sarah because she's a backstabbing liar.  When I remind her of the very first winner in Survivor history, she says "Rudy should have won."  It is the game.  I see nothing wrong with it, and so far Sarah is playing that angle splendidly.  She didn't even seem to make herself a target until last night, and that seems to be because they are worried she's played too good of a game.  It's one of many reasons I would never, ever, do good at this game.  I could never lie, keep a straight face, keep my composure, and still manage to shift the targets elsewhere.  

In regards to the whispering at TC-I was thinking about it, and how super fans are going to attempt to take it to the next level once they see this season (so we won't see it in S35, but likely in S36).  Jeff may love it and think it makes great TV, but he also can probably find out more of what's going on than we the viewers will ever see.  Remember when Ciera boldy said "I'm going to rocks" or Caleb openly turned on a dumbfounded Brad when he said he wouldn't vote Ciera out?  Or Keith's "stick to the plan!"  Look at all the great blindsides that might have been thwarted had they gotten up and mingled with each other.

Edited May 19, 2017 by LadyChatts

[Nalan]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 7:44 PM, DrivingSideways said:

I felt so bad for Cirie.  She really got screwed.  Is this the only reward that wasn't transferrable?  If so, that's pretty serendipitous that it got played out in this way.

No.  Stephen had the same advantage in Cambodia that Sarah just used here in Game Changers, and it was also nontransferable.

23 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Survivor isn't real life, it's a game. When you play Monopoly, you try to get everybody else's money. When you play Survivor, you have to stab people in the back.  I doubt any of these people lie and scheme in their everyday lives. Should police officers not be allowed to play to win? That's BS, in my humble opinion.

Exactly.  I hate Tony, but he, too, was a cop, and he backstabbed people repeatedly to get to the win in Cagayan.  Why shouldn't Sarah, a cop herself, do the same?

Edited May 20, 2017 by Nalan

[marsdude89]

My problem with Sarah's game is it seems like she just re-watched Cagayan and tried to ape Tony. I guess it's impressive that she's still around.

[KimberStormer]

14 hours ago, DrivingSideways said:

I felt so bad for Cirie.  She really got screwed.  Is this the only reward that wasn't transferrable?  If so, that's pretty serendipitous that it got played out in this way.  Sarah seems very humorless and constantly has a worried look on her face, but I respect the way she's playing the game and she thought quickly on her feet when Cirie tried to blindside her with the vote.  Taking out Michaela may have been a pyrrhic victory, she should have just gone for Cirie, but maybe Tai wouldn't agree to that.

Doesn't matter if he would, because she stole his vote!  But I believe it was actually Michaela he wouldn't vote for, if the exit interviews are right.

It seems that other steal-a-vote advantages were non-transferrable (Stephen said on RHAP he doesn't remember, but apparently it was) but that doesn't make it less stupid.  I can't see any possible situation where not being able to give the advantage away could make for worse TV. 

13 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I think, depending on who he's sitting next to, they absolutely would [vote for Brad Culpepper].

I agree with this.  Everyone loves an underdog.  "What did you even do in the game?" is a favorite question, and Brad has plenty to say if he makes it to the end: "I was flipped on, things looked hopeless, but I won key immunities and got back on top."  As Kurt Vonnegut says, people love that story, they never get sick of it.

19 hours ago, blackwing said:

TPTB will never ban the whispering.  Jeffy in particular seems to absolutely love it.  He sits there with this huge smile of amazement and wonder, like he's a teen watching porn for the first time.  You can almost see the thought bubble over his head proclaiming, "Wow!  THIS is what great TV is.  I smell Emmy!!!!!"

I think they will likely ban it in future seasons but you can't really change the rules midway through (I mean, they can do whatever they want, but I believe there are some kind of CBS lawyers there, and imagine if you're Malcolm and Probst stops them from talking this time, but not back when you got voted out...)  They have frequently changed challenges in response to game-breaking creativity, but they don't call foul during the challenge itself.  They also changed or reinforced the rules about no talking when cameras are not on them after but not during Australia, I believe.  So I imagine they will put it down that there's no getting up and moving around at tribal, mostly because we need to be able to hear what happens.  That's my guess!

18 hours ago, violet and green said:

This is the weirdestly edited season of Survivor ever.

I don't think it's the weirdest necessarily but I do think it is the worst.

Edited May 19, 2017 by KimberStormer
my culpepper comments disappeared for some reason so I put them back

[SVNBob]

On 5/17/2017 at 10:35 PM, kikaha said:

Cirie took out Andrea instead of Sarah because she thinks Andrea is the more dangerous opponent, if they both make FTC.  i.e. Cirie thinks she can easily beat Sarah at FTC, but feared she could not beat Andrea.  

Or to put it another way, Cirie had to take out the new Black Widow Andrea, before she could take Cirie out like Parvati did.

 

As for why Michaela?  Three reasons:

1. As stated elsewhere in the thread, Cirie is not a challenge threat.  Michaela was.  There's still chances to get Cirie out.  Michaela may not have given them another one.
2. Revenge.  Sarah basically said to Cirie, "You don't trust me?  You don't get to trust anybody anymore."
3.  

On 5/17/2017 at 11:07 PM, AftermathTV said:

Sarah was clearly hurt that Cirie would try to use the advantage like that, good intentions or not. You don't pull that shit on your ally just because they want to wait on voting someone. It was extremely insulting to Sarah and Sarah has enough connections at this point to strike back at Cirie for such an insolent decision. So she cut out Michaela, which weakens Cirie's position and still keeps her latched to Sarah.

23 hours ago, mojoween said:

And I hope somehow this doesn't blow back on Cirie

It already did.  With Michaela gone, Cirie is alone.  She has no connection with Brad or Troy.   She abused Sarah's trust in trying to eliminate Tai.  And she voted for Aubry.  Cirie is about to head back to the couch.

[Superpole2000]

I was thrilled to see Michaela booted. "Go fishing!" which was another way of saying, "I'm hungry, go get me something to eat." No one would take that with good humour. Whatever drove Michaela to say that...that's why she will never win this game. She can't get out of her own head and analyze how other people are going to react to what she is saying or doing.

Cirie tried a high difficulty twisting dive and belly-flopped. Sarah's reaction was such a boss move. I really don't care for her personality, but Sarah keeps dominating this season and deserves her prominent status. I just don't get why Sarah disliked Andrea. Was that one of those blue-collar/brawn vs. beauty things this show likes to hype? Jealousy?

[cooksdelight]

9 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Survivor isn't real life, it's a game. When you play Monopoly, you try to get everybody else's money. When you play Survivor, you have to stab people in the back.  I doubt any of these people lie and scheme in their everyday lives. Should police officers not be allowed to play to win? That's BS, in my humble opinion.

Tony was a police officer when he won. The show has had people from all walks of life, all kinds of careers. That's what makes it interesting, seeing people who normally would never lie or backstab do just that in order to win. :)

[blackwing]

I am curious as to what Sarah's next move is going to be.  She was at the forefront of the so-called women's alliance that were five strong to Brad's three.  Then she cut Andrea.  Then she cut Michaela.   Not sure where she and Cirie stand with each other.  Cirie was left in the dark, as she voted for Aubry. Aubry was left in the dark, as she voted for Tai.

Where is there for Sarah to go?  She is definitely safe next round with Sierra's advantage.  But if she makes it to the end, what is her argument?  "I constantly flipped on and betrayed all of you because it is what I had to do to get to the end?"  Evolution of the game yadda yadda yadda.   Will that work with this group of players and jurors?

I am not so sure.  As Andrea said, she would like to think that the jury will reward gameplay, but it is hard to keep emotion out of it, if one feels betrayed. The editing seems to be telegraphing her win, but it might be telegraphing a spectacular fall as well.  Her best sure fire win is if she brings Tai and Troy to the end.  I think she would have a good chance against any of the remaining contestants.  

Her toughest opponents would be Brad and Cirie.   Brad is a fighter, he kept his group together as best as he could and I don't think he betrayed any of the jurors and he keeps persevering despite the odds being against him (ie the Mike Holloway path to winning).  Cirie "got off the couch" as Jeff keeps reminding us, and everyone seems to like and respect her.

[peachmangosteen]

I think with the 'go fishing' Michaela was trying to tell Brad that maybe he should go fishing to prove why he shouldn't be voted out. Now what she actually meant was that she wanted him to go fishing because she wanted to eat before they booted him, but she realized that wouldn't fly so she tried to frame it as her giving him a suggestion on how to stay. But she did it all wrong because, well, she's terrible at lying lol.

As for the whole 'police officers shouldn't lie in the game' thing, I don't personally feel that way, but I think it's a perfectly valid way to feel. If people don't want to vote for someone who has backstabbed and lied to them then that's their prerogative and there's nothing wrong with it.

[JoBeth70]

It is continually referred to and I don't understand it's meaning: what is a goat?

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, JoBeth70 said:

It is continually referred to and I don't understand it's meaning: what is a goat?

From insidesurvivor.com:  

"The goat refers to a player with a highly unlikely chance of winning; whom if taken to the Final Tribal Council should be easily beatable due to the way they played the game or treated the members of the jury. It has become such a repeated term that it is now cemented in the lexicon of Survivor; used not only by superfans of the show but by journalists, podcasters and even the players themselves."

[kikaha]

44 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think with the 'go fishing' Michaela was trying to tell Brad that maybe he should go fishing to prove why he shouldn't be voted out. Now what she actually meant was that she wanted him to go fishing because she wanted to eat before they booted him, but she realized that wouldn't fly so she tried to frame it as her giving him a suggestion on how to stay.

I think what she actually meant was go fish instead of hunting for the idol.  Either way, as you said, she did it all wrong, and produced the opposite result of what she wanted. 

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Where is there for Sarah to go?  She is definitely safe next round with Sierra's advantage.  But if she makes it to the end, what is her argument?  "I constantly flipped on and betrayed all of you because it is what I had to do to get to the end?"  Evolution of the game yadda yadda yadda.   Will that work with this group of players and jurors?

I am not so sure.  As Andrea said, she would like to think that the jury will reward gameplay, but it is hard to keep emotion out of it, if one feels betrayed. The editing seems to be telegraphing her win, but it might be telegraphing a spectacular fall as well.  Her best sure fire win is if she brings Tai and Troy to the end.  I think she would have a good chance against any of the remaining contestants. 

Her argument is that she took out or helped engineer taking out one top player after another.  The whole time raising little suspicion of herself, up until near the end.  I think she easily is the top strategic player of the season.  I also think the others see her that way too, especially if she boots Cirie which as SVN Bob pointed out seems real likely .  If Sarah makes FTC, that's a real strong position. 

[ProfCrash]

Michaela has said in her exit interviews that she did not communicate her intentions well with Brad. She was trying to save him and wanted him to go fishing because she was hungry and she knew if he was out fishing people would not think he was looking for an idol.  

Michaela's interviews have been informative. She knows where she messed up and what she did wrong. She also clearly did not get along with a good number of people. She has used the term "slave" in most of her interviews. She did not like how people dismissed her, treated her, and how they spoke to her. I suspect that she was a polarizing figure and we just did not see most of that. She clearly got along fine with Zeke and some of the others on the Jury. She did not get along with Brad or Aubrey or JT. Given that she thought they viewed her as something lesser and a slave, I think it is safe to say we are not seeing a lot of what is happening that would show Michaela and others in a positive or negative light.

[enoughcats]

Quote

You’re spending 24 hours a day with people, and most of them, there’s no culturally relevant connection point that you had. I could use certain words and they wouldn’t understand what I’m saying. But Cirie is a person… she could see some of herself in me, and I could see a little of what is familiar to me in her. The same could be said about Sandra. It was really amazing and really uplifting for one time, just to have somebody who understands me and where I come from and how I’m thinking and who I am and what I struggle with, and can talk to me on my level.

From Michaela's Parade interview.

[Runningwild]

That just proves to me that Michaela puts forth no effort to try and communicate with people. If she wants to be understood, she expects them to try and understand her instead of using words they might understand. 

 

As for Culpepper, he's a successful attorney. I think he stands a good shot if he gets to the end. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Runningwild

[cooksdelight]

18 minutes ago, Runningwild said:

As for Culpepper, he's a successful attorney. I think he stands a good shot if he gets to the end.

Why do you think he could win? I would think being an attorney and having an NFL pension (he's worth $3 million) would make people vote for someone who played well and also needs the money.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Michaela has said in her exit interviews that she did not communicate her intentions well with Brad. She was trying to save him and wanted him to go fishing because she was hungry and she knew if he was out fishing people would not think he was looking for an idol.  

Michaela's interviews have been informative. She knows where she messed up and what she did wrong. She also clearly did not get along with a good number of people. She has used the term "slave" in most of her interviews. She did not like how people dismissed her, treated her, and how they spoke to her. I suspect that she was a polarizing figure and we just did not see most of that. She clearly got along fine with Zeke and some of the others on the Jury. She did not get along with Brad or Aubrey or JT. Given that she thought they viewed her as something lesser and a slave, I think it is safe to say we are not seeing a lot of what is happening that would show Michaela and others in a positive or negative light.

That's what she is saying about "go fish"?  Sorry, but I don't believe her at all.  Just moments before she told Brad to fish, she said something about how she wanted to make sure he wasn't looking for an idol.  She also said something about how she was hungry.  Then she told him to fish.  There was nothing about trying to save him or what not.  I thought the clear interpretation was something along the lines of "he's getting his ass voted out tonight, so it would be nice if we got some fish before tonight, because we might not be getting any more once he is gone".

Of course Michaela didn't like how they treated her.  Did she give any examples of how they treated her like a "slave"?  Was it "Michaela can you go get us some water" and "Michaela could you make the rice"?  Or was it "Michaela, I have to take a dump, find me some large smooth leaves" and "Michaela, wash my undershorts"?  Because I would certainly bristle at being asked/told to do the latter, no matter how nicely they asked.  But if it was the former... I see them as asking her to simply help out around the camp.  And from what we have seen of her, she doesn't seem to like to help out.  

She seems like she is extremely sensitive and has a chip on her shoulder.  The fact that she keeps referring to herself as a slave seems to suggest that she thinks there was some element of racism.  I highly doubt they are all racist.  I think her attitude and the way she interacts and responds to others has a lot to do with how they respond to her.  What I don't get is that her mother seems like a perfectly nice and level headed person, and even told Michaela to calm down.  There also was Cirie, who Michaela seemed to connect with.  Cirie tried counselling her.  So Michaela has had influential older black women in her life and in the game who have presumably tried to tell her what she is doing that makes her come across in a way that people don't like.  And yet she still does it and continues to blame everyone around her and "the man" and "the system" for not understanding her.  I feel sad for her, she is never going to get to where she wants to be with such an outlook.

[Runningwild]

18 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Why do you think he could win? I would think being an attorney and having an NFL pension (he's worth $3 million) would make people vote for someone who played well and also needs the money.

Experience speaking to juries for one. 

[sadiegirl1999]

56 minutes ago, blackwing said:

That's what she is saying about "go fish"?  Sorry, but I don't believe her at all.  Just moments before she told Brad to fish, she said something about how she wanted to make sure he wasn't looking for an idol.  She also said something about how she was hungry.  Then she told him to fish.  There was nothing about trying to save him or what not.  I thought the clear interpretation was something along the lines of "he's getting his ass voted out tonight, so it would be nice if we got some fish before tonight, because we might not be getting any more once he is gone".

I think it was this but she watched herself on TV and is CYA-ing it

[ProfCrash]

23 minutes ago, blackwing said:

She seems like she is extremely sensitive and has a chip on her shoulder.  The fact that she keeps referring to herself as a slave seems to suggest that she thinks there was some element of racism.  I highly doubt they are all racist.  I think her attitude and the way she interacts and responds to others has a lot to do with how they respond to her.  What I don't get is that her mother seems like a perfectly nice and level headed person, and even told Michaela to calm down.  There also was Cirie, who Michaela seemed to connect with.  Cirie tried counselling her.  So Michaela has had influential older black women in her life and in the game who have presumably tried to tell her what she is doing that makes her come across in a way that people don't like.  And yet she still does it and continues to blame everyone around her and "the man" and "the system" for not understanding her.  I feel sad for her, she is never going to get to where she wants to be with such an outlook

I am not sure I fully agree with you. She gets along fine with a good number of people. She is happy and out going and interacting just fine with everyone at Ponderosa. So I don't think she is extremely sensitive. I think she is young and annoyed with how some of the older folks interacted with her. And while Brad has seemed fine this season, I remember him being a bit of a misogynist ass his first season. She is unable to hide her emotions and I am sure that rubbed people the wrong way. She does not strike me as the type of person who appreciates people handling her. She clearly did not like being side lined.

As you said, Michaela's Mom told her to chill out. Michaela is a the person who wears everything in the open and needs to learn to check her emotions and give herself a chance to breath.

I have no idea where the slave thing came from. That is a strong word to use. We sure did not see anything to indicate that people were behaving poorly or in a racist manner. We have not heard from anyone in interviews that there was a racial problem at camp. Without hearing more from Michaela, I don't think there is much more that can be said. I have been surprised that no one has called her on the use of the word Slave and ask her for an explanation.

[innocuouspuff]

I don't really see why Michaela would be lying about her Brad/fishing reasoning, when she and Brad voted together against Andrea. To be saying, go get me fish before you leave, she would have had to actually vote for him to leave?

[La Traviata]

Best episode this season!  I was laughing my ass off watching Michaela finally get what's been coming to her.  Too bad so sad.  She was good at challenges, but nothing else.  She had a major chip on her shoulder, bossed people around, acted all a fool and deserved every second of every shunning she endured.  

Bye, Felicia!  

I hope Troy, Sarah and Brad are in the final 3.  

[Dominii]

23 hours ago, blackwing said:

I'm curious, could you please provide some specific examples of incidents in which they were awful to her (Michaela)?

Maybe they weren't always awful TO her, but they were often awful ABOUT her. There was a lot of backstabbing. Times were numerous when Deb, Culpepper, Aubrey, just about everyone had horrible things to say about Michaela. It's true that Michaela didn't have many filters: she put her foot in her mouth, she didn't shed crocodile tears like the other players, she didn't play their game the way they thought a nice little girl should play it.

It was sad for Michaela. She could never really be herself because the others would be mean about her behavior.  I appreciated it when she rebelled and openly dismissed their judgement and derision. I think if she weren't such a strong person and such a fighter, she probably would have been the victim of overt bullying. I wonder if there actually was some bullying and they edited it out...

I think a lot of this is sexism. Michaela is a GIRL, but she doesn't act the way a GIRL should act. She was too strong, too athletic, too outspoken, too in your face. Plus she had no fear, and that scared the other players. Cirie saw her as she was and got to know her and liked her. The others didn't give her a chance.

[Jersey Guy 87]

On 5/17/2017 at 9:13 PM, SourK said:

It's not satisfying to me to see a plan fall apart because the players don't understand the rules. We don't have the full story for what happened, but it seems like it should have been clear to production that Cirie didn't get what "non-transferable" meant in this context and they could have clarified. On the other hand, it seemed like a much less stupid move for Sarah to make once we knew no one could use the vote except for her.

I'm confused about how the vote ended up being Michaela after that.

 

On 5/17/2017 at 11:40 PM, Runningwild said:

I don't get all the Culpepper hate or Michaela love. Honestly, the more I see of Michaela the more I dislike her. She didn't ask Brad to go fishing, she told him. Demanded that he go fishing. And I believe Brad's point was she was basically telling him, "If you fish for us we might keep you."  Way to win friends and influence people.  I didn't care for Brad's outburst after he won, but I could understand that emotion anyway. I also like Sarah. Her confessionals show she is thinking strategically. 

I'm not particularly a fan of Brad but the dislike for him comes from his previous season when he was an ass.  He's been much less of one this season.  And I think there are a good number of people who are not Michaela fans.  Because, among other things, she tends to lack any sense of tact or discretion in her dealings with people.

On 5/18/2017 at 1:04 AM, millennium said:

I thought it was just me.   I don't like her face.   I'm also turned off by lying and conniving in someone who identifies as a police officer.

Well, she identifies a a police officer because she is a police officer.  And I don't see what being a police officer has to do with how you behave in a game called Survivor.  She's no more a corrupt police officer because she's lied in Survivor than Lisa Welchel would have been a bad Christian for lying in Survivor.  It's a game, it's expected that you lie to move yourself forward.  It has no reflection on how you are as a person.

7 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Tony was a police officer when he won. The show has had people from all walks of life, all kinds of careers. That's what makes it interesting, seeing people who normally would never lie or backstab do just that in order to win. :)

Plenty of police officers (and others in idealistically "clean" professions) lie and backstab to get ahead.  This isn't a comment on Tony (or Sarah), I have no idea how either behaves as a police officer.  But naively thinking that being a police officer means you don't lie or backstab is silly.

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Why do you think he could win? I would think being an attorney and having an NFL pension (he's worth $3 million) would make people vote for someone who played well and also needs the money.

I don't think this jury is particularly worried about who "needs" the money.  They're voting for who played the best game.  That might be Brad, it might be someone else.  But they're not voting for someone to win because they think they need money.

[Alapaki]

The problem with Michaela's version of the "go fish" comment, as I see it, is that if she really was concerned enough about Brad being targeted to want to warn him, why didn't she just say "Brad, you're being targeted!".  Or, if she wanted to play coy, why not say "Brad, are you trying to work any angles?  What do you think about . . . . ".  Did she want deniability in case Brad brought it up at TC?  What would be the point?  Once he brings it up and plants the seed of doubt in the others the damage is done.  Her excuse just doesn't make sense. 

And I do think her comments that others treated her like a slave, which I've seen in a couple of interviews now, along with her calling out in particular two women of color as being able to related to her because they knew where she was coming from strongly suggests that Michaela viewed things through a racial lens.

I really didn't see any evidence, even between the lines, that people were other-ing her based on race.  And if there was, I'd hope there wouldn't be a cast-wide conspiracy of silence to hide it.  

And, I get that she's relatively young.  But she's supposed to be in sales of vacation properties (which I read as "timeshares").  You'd think that would give her sufficient people skills to navigate the social game on Survivor.  And throwing around accusations of being treated like a slave is pretty serious business.

2 minutes ago, Jersey Guy 87 said:

I'm not particularly a fan of Brad but the dislike for him comes from his previous season when he was an ass.  He's been much less of one this season. 

I agree that Brad comes across a little differently this season.  But I wonder how much of this is a function of him setting the bar fairly low last season.  Or simply wising up and learning how to play the game.

Point being, I'm fully prepared to believe that he's still an asshole.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Alapaki

[Jersey Guy 87]

I don't disagree that Brad could well still be an ass.  However, if you watch only this season he's not been an excessive ass.  If he's in fact still an ass I won't be surprised either.

[Oholibamah]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

That's what she is saying about "go fish"?  Sorry, but I don't believe her at all.  Just moments before she told Brad to fish, she said something about how she wanted to make sure he wasn't looking for an idol.  She also said something about how she was hungry.  Then she told him to fish.  There was nothing about trying to save him or what not.  I thought the clear interpretation was something along the lines of "he's getting his ass voted out tonight, so it would be nice if we got some fish before tonight, because we might not be getting any more once he is gone".

Of course Michaela didn't like how they treated her.  Did she give any examples of how they treated her like a "slave"?  Was it "Michaela can you go get us some water" and "Michaela could you make the rice"?  Or was it "Michaela, I have to take a dump, find me some large smooth leaves" and "Michaela, wash my undershorts"?  Because I would certainly bristle at being asked/told to do the latter, no matter how nicely they asked.  But if it was the former... I see them as asking her to simply help out around the camp.  And from what we have seen of her, she doesn't seem to like to help out.  

She seems like she is extremely sensitive and has a chip on her shoulder.  The fact that she keeps referring to herself as a slave seems to suggest that she thinks there was some element of racism.  I highly doubt they are all racist.  I think her attitude and the way she interacts and responds to others has a lot to do with how they respond to her.  What I don't get is that her mother seems like a perfectly nice and level headed person, and even told Michaela to calm down.  There also was Cirie, who Michaela seemed to connect with.  Cirie tried counselling her.  So Michaela has had influential older black women in her life and in the game who have presumably tried to tell her what she is doing that makes her come across in a way that people don't like.  And yet she still does it and continues to blame everyone around her and "the man" and "the system" for not understanding her.  I feel sad for her, she is never going to get to where she wants to be with such an outlook.

I think what she means by "slave" is this exact dynamic of having to change parts of herself so others understand and like her. That can be an incredibly suffocating feeling and in some ways replicates experiences around slavery and colonialism.

I think the players who didn't like her are equally guilty of not making the effort to understand that her worldview is different than theirs. Which isn't entirely the same as them being racist.

I wouldn't say she's blaming "the system" or "the man": frustration at always having to fit with a majority who doesn't understand you sucks. This was subtly alluded to by Cirie: Michaela is still learning to balance being true to herself and fitting in with people who don't "get" her. Regardless of having older mentors, it takes some getting used to because it's a shitty thing to have to do.

[La Traviata]

I haven't seen Brad do anything this season that may be seen as negative that wasn't deserved or provoked.  People can't let go of the opinion they had of him from a previous season, and for that alone they dislike him this season.  I say get over it.  He's playing a great game this season, and considering TPTB were transparently letting him know "he's next" once Sierra got voted out, I don't blame him one iota for gloating his ass off after winning that immunity.  He was entitled to that gloat.  He'd earned it.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Dominii said:

It was sad for Michaela. She could never really be herself because the others would be mean about her behavior.  I appreciated it when she rebelled and openly dismissed their judgement and derision. I think if she weren't such a strong person and such a fighter, she probably would have been the victim of overt bullying. I wonder if there actually was some bullying and they edited it out...

I think a lot of this is sexism. Michaela is a GIRL, but she doesn't act the way a GIRL should act. She was too strong, too athletic, too outspoken, too in your face. Plus she had no fear, and that scared the other players. Cirie saw her as she was and got to know her and liked her. The others didn't give her a chance.

 

27 minutes ago, Oholibamah said:

I think what she means by "slave" is this exact dynamic of having to change parts of herself so others understand and like her. That can be an incredibly suffocating feeling and in some ways replicates experiences around slavery and colonialism.

I think the players who didn't like her are equally guilty of not making the effort to understand that her worldview is different than theirs. Which isn't entirely the same as them being racist.

I wouldn't say she's blaming "the system" or "the man": frustration at always having to fit with a majority who doesn't understand you sucks. This was subtly alluded to by Cirie: Michaela is still learning to balance being true to herself and fitting in with people who don't "get" her. Regardless of having older mentors, it takes some getting used to because it's a shitty thing to have to do.

I guess I'm not really understanding the argument that things were tough for her because she "couldn't be herself" or that "people didn't understand her".  Is this a way of saying she is loud and brash and hypercompetitive and has no filter?  Is she complaining that she had to hide her "true self" because people didn't like being around her if she was loud and brash?  If that is what she is saying, then I don't sympathise in the least.  Survivor brings together people from all walks of life.  Everybody has to learn how to fit in amongst the group, and if her complaint is that she couldn't be her loud aggressive self because people would vote her out, then she shouldn't be playing the game.  She will never do well on a reality show that has some element of social aspect to it.  She'd do better on something like The Amazing Race.

I feel uncomfortable if she's comparing herself to a slave because she had to reign in her aggressive personality because people don't appreciate the stereotypical "angry black woman" on reality shows.  She's just using race as a crutch.  There have been plenty of loud and aggressive people on this show.  Tony Vlachos for one.  He won the game in his first appearance.  There have also been numerous black women on this show (Cirie for example) who haven't been angry and aggressive or made to feel like they had to keep their "angry black woman" personality in check. 

I went and re-read some of the interviews, and in the Parade interview, she is basically blaming her immunity challenge loss on subtle racism.  She says that people like her aren't familiar with a compass rose.  She calls it indicative of the "little social elements" of the game.  She says that people like Brad (i.e. rich white people) who live near the water or are rich and can afford to be on a boat or take time off of work to go hiking would be familiar with the compass rose.  But somebody like her would not.   I'm sorry, but that's absolute crap.  You don't have to be familiar with a compass rose to realise that your picture doesn't seem right because something is not symmetrical.

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Superpole2000 said:

Was that one of those blue-collar/brawn vs. beauty things this show likes to hype? Jealousy?

Regarding Sarah's dislike for Andrea:  I don't think it was jealousy.  At one point Sarah interviewed that Sierra was a rock star to her and her closest friend in the game. If she was the type of person to be jealous of other women over their looks, I think she would have been jealous of the gorgeous, long legged Sierra.  I sure wish the show had given us a clue about why Sarah didn't like Andrea.  A statement like , "I can't stand her, " should always be followed with an example, but then that's the editing for this season.  All challenges and incomprehensible tribal councils.

---------------------------------------

I won't go so far as to pretend I would ever not watch my favorite show, but these All Star things have to stop.  They are so cold!  Everyone comes in all teeth gritted and ready to win that million, and there is none of that fear of the unknown, making new friends, feeling their way, learning on a steep curve, that we get to see with first time players. It's like watching Poker and I find that very boring.

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, Jersey Guy 87 said:

But they're not voting for someone to win because they think they need money.

I disagree because sometimes they do. Sad stories win a lot more than someone who's already a millionaire saying why they deserve more money. Last season's winner broke down in tears about his mother dying of cancer and he got every single vote. I cannot remember which seasons they played in, but there have been several people who overcame hardship, had a sick relative, had a hard life....they all won easily. Brad's wife was always seen as a goat since no one in their right mind would give her more money.

[After7Only]

1 hour ago, Alapaki said:

And I do think her comments that others treated her like a slave, which I've seen in a couple of interviews now, along with her calling out in particular two women of color as being able to related to her because they knew where she was coming from strongly suggests that Michaela viewed things through a racial lens.

 

It's not that she views the world through a racial lens, it's the racial lens in which the world views her.  She is very cognizant of that, as are most African Americans.   I view her comments about Cirie and Sandra, no different from the guy (can't remember his name) who came out to to Zeke.   He said they bonded because they were both gay .   It's also no different from all the various cliques that form on this show.  There's usual a dude-bro group, a pretty people group, a misfit group, etc.   People are naturally drawn to other people like themselves, especially in Survivor.

52 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I feel uncomfortable if she's comparing herself to a slave because she had to reign in her aggressive personality because people don't appreciate the stereotypical "angry black woman" on reality shows.  She's just using race as a crutch.  There have been plenty of loud and aggressive people on this show.  Tony Vlachos for one.  He won the game in his first appearance.  There have also been numerous black women on this show (Cirie for example) who haven't been angry and aggressive or made to feel like they had to keep their "angry black woman" personality in check. 

I went and re-read some of the interviews, and in the Parade interview, she is basically blaming her immunity challenge loss on subtle racism.  She says that people like her aren't familiar with a compass rose.  She calls it indicative of the "little social elements" of the game.  She says that people like Brad (i.e. rich white people) who live near the water or are rich and can afford to be on a boat or take time off of work to go hiking would be familiar with the compass rose.  But somebody like her would not.   I'm sorry, but that's absolute crap.  You don't have to be familiar with a compass rose to realise that your picture doesn't seem right because something is not symmetrical.

You kinda proved her point regarding Tony.  Both are loud and aggressive but Tony got a different type of criticism than Michaela.  Is aggressiveness and loudness was generally viewed as entertaining and positive.    

I'll give you Cirie and Valencia, for not being labeled the angry black woman.  But the good number of the other black females on this show have been labeled just that and tended to be early boots.  

I think in the parade interview she did a great job of taking responsibility for her mistakes in the game.   I did not get any racial overtones regarding her comments regarding the compass challenge.  She said she didn't know what a rose compass was because she doesn't hike or boat.   Whereas someone like Brad  (who lives near water, and is older and richer) might be exposed to it.  Nothing racial there (but there goes that racial lens by which the world views.....)

Edited May 19, 2017 by After7Only

[3jt]

12 minutes ago, After7Only said:

I think in the parade interview she did a great job of taking responsibility for her mistakes in the game.   I did not get any racial overtones regarding her comments regarding the compass challenge.  She said she didn't know what a rose compass was because she doesn't hike or boat.   Whereas someone like Brad  (who lives near water, and is older and richer) might be exposed to it.  Nothing racial there (but there goes that racial lens by which the world views.....)

I agree 1000%. I thought that she was very well spoken in that interview. She took responsibility for her social game (or lack there of) and she knew that because she was sitting there being pissed and feeling sorry for herself she missed the advantage that Sarah found. I love her and am sorry that she was voted off. But- that's the show.

[peachmangosteen]

I really enjoy reading Michaela's thoughts on how race plays a part in the social dynamics. She's very articulate about that kind of stuff.

5 hours ago, Runningwild said:

As for Culpepper, he's a successful attorney. I think he stands a good shot if he gets to the end. 

 

4 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Why do you think he could win? I would think being an attorney and having an NFL pension (he's worth $3 million) would make people vote for someone who played well and also needs the money.

I think if Brad makes it to the end it'll probably be with Tai and Troy and in that case I think he'll likely win because he'll be seen as the better player among those 3. Against Cirie, Sarah, and possibly Aubry he probably wouldn't win because I think the others would see them as better players than him.

[JoBeth70]

7 hours ago, AZChristian said:

From insidesurvivor.com:  

"The goat refers to a player with a highly unlikely chance of winning; whom if taken to the Final Tribal Council should be easily beatable due to the way they played the game or treated the members of the jury. It has become such a repeated term that it is now cemented in the lexicon of Survivor; used not only by superfans of the show but by journalists, podcasters and even the players themselves."

Thank you!

[ljenkins782]

On 5/18/2017 at 11:48 AM, mishap said:

I am confused why Sarah gave Cirie the advantage in the first place.    Sarah seemed to understand that is was non- transferable, so what good did it do, for Cirie to hold onto it?   Even is Sarah was voted out of the game, Cirie could not have used that advantage in the future, right?  Non transferable means non transferable, and it seems it didn't say anything about passing it on, if someone was voted out.  I also thought that HII were null and void, if someone happened to leave them at camp, and then get voted out. 

Was Sarah just playing Cirie?  Was it a test? 

Well, it was not the only think I was confused about during episode.  Maybe we will see next week, the thought process that got Michaela voted out. 

That was really odd, especially since it was Cirie of all people. If there's one thing she's good at, it's considering all angles. It's strange to see her so wrong footed at tribal. 

At the start of this episode, I thought Cirie was amazingly positioned in the game and by the end of the hour, she fell almost completely to the bottom. Her 2 main allies booted and her alliance with Sarah on shaky ground, not to mention the million idols and advantages still in play. 

Again, I find myself wishing I liked Sarah more so I could enjoy her arc, but she just rubs me the wrong way. I'm quickly running out of people to root for.

[Calamity Jane]

42 minutes ago, After7Only said:

43 minutes ago, After7Only said:

I think in the parade interview she did a great job of taking responsibility for her mistakes in the game.   I did not get any racial overtones regarding her comments regarding the compass challenge.  She said she didn't know what a rose compass was because she doesn't hike or boat.   Whereas someone like Brad  (who lives near water, and is older and richer) might be exposed to it.  Nothing racial there (but there goes that racial lens by which the world views.....)

As a retired teacher of grades 4-8 through my career, I can say that in my state, the compass rose was part of the social studies/history curriculum every single year.  I don't have my old content frameworks anymore, but I am pretty confident that it was a standard every year from 3rd through high school.  So it would not be a function of one's wealth or leisure-time activities to have been not just exposed to but taught repeatedly about it, and that makes it odd to me for an adult never to have heard of it.  I'm also not really convinced that one had to have a prior image of it in mind to realize how the puzzle should go.  The other "arms" of the rose had the alternating pattern, so the bottom should have followed that.  It was one of those things that happen on Survivor - how many times have we seen someone believe they've solved a puzzle, but they missed a small detail?

I liked Michaela on her first season, and I've gotten a kick out of her this time around, too.  She certainly does generate strong feelings in people.