S34.E08: There's A New Sheriff In Town (Double Episode)

[Rachel RSL]

9 hours ago, Artsda said:

What has Cirie done this game? She's horrible at challenges and puzzles.  It's like they're dragging her to the end.

I don't know if I agree with that. I mean, she's definitely not a challenge beast or anything but I don't think she's necessarily been a hindrance to her tribe in challenges. They got really close to winning that last reward challenge and probably only lost because Zeke is some sort of Jedi Master when it comes to puzzles. I don't think anybody sees her as a goat to drag to the end. She's still there because she works every angle she can.

3 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Where is she from? I'm guessing she was brought up in the heart of some KKK stronghold. She is the most deeply racist contestant that I've ever seen on this game.  She is so racist that I doubt she even realizes it. If anyone asked her about it or confronted her, she would deliver a speech about how she has all these best friends who are black and people who think she is racist must be out of their minds. Denial with two capital "D"s.

I'm not a fan of Sierra by any means (And thanks a lot, guys, for pointing out her eyebrows. I never noticed them before and now they're ALL I can see when she's on screen.) but I think this is a huge leap to make based on what we've seen. I certainly don't think she's even close to being the most racist contestant to ever be on Survivor. (Hello Colton!) Yes, she used certain words to describe Michaela that can often be seen as coded but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for now. Almost everyone has commented on how hotheaded and volatile Michaela can be. Even Cirie (a black female American herself, as Michaela pointed out) felt the need to take her aside and tell her to basically calm the hell down.  

[Vyk]

I don't know what everyone is talking about regarding this episode being boring.  I was interested the whole way through.

I thought the editors did a decent job, confessional-wise, of at least spelling out where everyone was, strategically.  I got a feel for where everyone was throwing their allegiances and loyalties.  Well, all but Troyzan, who got zero confessionals, which makes me wonder what he's doing in this game.

So I came in thinking that Ozzy would have the advantage and win at least one Immunity Challenge.  But I was shocked to see him win neither one!  I was even more shocked when he wasn't even considered for the boot at the first Tribal Council, but was glad he was considered for the second one . . . and actually voted out!  Yay!  Sorry, people.  Not the Ozzy fan most of you are.

Was sad to see Hali go, especially since she was targeted for no other reason than she was an original Mana who hadn't thrown in with Brad like Troyzan and Aubry had.  But at least she went out with class.

Was surprised that Aubry went from loyal to Brad at one Tribal Council to loyal to Cirie and Andrea at the next.  He and/or Sierra must've done something to turn her off.

I did think that Cirie and Andrea could get a little something going against Brad and Sierra.  But of course, fucking Zeke has to ruin it all just because he wants to be in control.  Why couldn't he have just rolled with getting rid of Sierra and maybe Brad and then start to work against Cirie and Andrea?  By moving that quickly, he accomplished nothing but leaving himself alone and with no allies whatsoever.  And it looks like the alliance that was set to move against Brad and Sierra's alliance turned into a sinking ship from which Sarah thought it was time to jump.  All thanks to Zeke.  I still thank him and love him for making Pwecious Wittle David cry last season and not worshipping the ground he walked on, but I was reminded that he's just a terrible player and a wannabe mastermind.  No one trusts him now, and I don't see how he moves forward the way things are at the moment.

Sarah's choice to join Brad and Sierra for the Ozzy vote was interesting, but thinking back to last week, not too surprising.  She'd wanted Ozzy gone since Jeff first proposed it, and she did say that she'd vote with the alliance that targeted the one she wanted gone.  That was Ozzy, and it was Brad and Sierra who were going after him.  Now, does she stay with them or try to jump back to Cirie, Andrea, Aubry, and Michaela?  If the latter, could she do so easily?  Or would they think she betrayed them?  Time will tell.

I enjoyed the episode immensely and actually can't wait to see what happens next week.

[Alison]

Even though Michaela alluded to it in the show, I thought this bears repeating: this is the first merge with 2 African-American women in 34 seasons.

[Boilergal]

I always like when someone tries to suck up to the main group and gives info (zeke) and finds themselves on the outside of the vote.  I always hope that the outsiders say - holy crap we were kept in the dark on that, we need to work together to take out the main group - sadly they never seem to and get picked off one by one.

[NodakFan]

9 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

 

Why, when Cirie was talking to the camera during her conversation with Michaela, did it say "Exile Island"?

 

Wasn't Cirie's first season Exile Island?  Probably a reference to that

[peachmangosteen]

I'm basically hate watching at this point because I don't truly like or want to root for anyone left. OK, that's not true. I love Andrea even more now than I did before plus I think maybe now she'll actually start at least trying to make some interesting moves so I'm excited to see what happens with her. And honestly it might be fun watching when I basically hate 90% of the cast lol. 

The first hour was so poorly edited. I mean the spec people are posting here about how exactly that vote went down makes sense, but the edit was so bad that hell literally anything could have happened and we would have no way of knowing. 

I'm sorry but I still don't like Cirie. I really try, man, because I loved her so much in Panama, but she just rubs me the wrong way. I did like the Cirie/Michaela convo though. I found it weird Cirie kept stopping herself from mentioning they were both black though.

I loved that Zeke proved yet again what a terrible player he is in this ep. I love being vindicated! And Andrea's, "You suck as a player. Hope to seen you never," vote just solidified her as my #1.

Tai beating Ozzy at the challenge made me so very happy. Ozzy is such an asshole, so I'm super pumped he was booted. I loved Debbie for making that happen.

About Survivor Brooklyn, Andrea and Zeke were on it together this past summer, so it was after MvGX. You can watch it all here.

Edited April 20, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Drogo]

Khaleesi does not love the two-hour episodes-- she gets very quiet in the second hour.  She was sad to see both Hali and Ozzy go, and wasn't a fan of Debbie's antics or Sierra's cockiness.

Probst needs 2 volunteers to sit out of the feast:  Stupid to volunteer.  Never do anything nice for people on Survivor, because then they're like "We have to get rid of that guy who did nice stuff for people. 

Probst tells Tai and Brad to go sit on a log:  I bet there's idol clues over there for them!  There's no idols/clues for them on the log:  Well that was useless. 

Debbie pretends to be drunk to fit in:  She's one of those people who gets right in your face to talk to you.  Right in your face.

Sierra the great and powerful leader:  She seems annoyed that anyone is questioning the plan, but the plan is stupid.  If you really think Hali has an Idol, you have to put more votes on her so she either goes home with the Idol or plays the Idol.  Sierra is really scared of Michaela for some reason. 

           ^^And just like that Sierra's logic, math skills, and eyebrows are eclipsed by a fourth-grader's.^^ 

Hali offers to strip to prove she doesn't have an Idol:  That's a weird thing to say to people who you know want to send you home.

The Marshall's Spa:  Scented candles?  In a place with bugs the size of your head? 

Zeke would rather make a move and go home than not make a move:  Yeah but, you should make a good move.  Not the one you're talking about.  Those are your friends.

I like how Troyzan looks so joyful anytime someone whispers a name that isn't "Troyzan" into his ear.  Those are some giant white teeth he's got in there.

But my favorite, about Ozzy's "Oh No Not I, I Will Provide" argument: 

I know what he's trying to say, but these people don't even want fish when they're getting food prizes all the time.  He's like a guy trying to get his friends to eat kale chips when they have a pizza being delivered. 

[ferretrick]

Has anyone figured out Cirie's Sierra vote in the 2nd Tribal?  Was she trying to force a tie?

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, ferretrick said:

Has anyone figured out Cirie's Sierra vote in the 2nd Tribal?  Was she trying to force a tie?

It seems that people are speculating that Cirie got the group to change the plan to putting most of the votes on Hali and that she may have even volunteered to be one of the Michaela votes in order to hide the fact that she was trying to save her.

But who fucking knows because the edit hid everything from us.

[AZChristian]

Regarding the loud music . . .

Both on The Amazing Race and Survivor, we've started setting our audio to "SAP" . . . for these two shows, it tends to have the effect of down-playing the background music.  It's important to set it back, though.  For some shows, the "SAP" setting will provide all the dialogue in Spanish, and on others it will mute everything.

[uoflfan]

Ozzie still has no social game whatsoever but I'll miss that eye candy.

[Alapaki]

59 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm basically hate watching at this point because I don't truly like or want to root for anyone left. OK, that's not true. I love Andrea even more now than I did before plus I think maybe now she'll actually start at least trying to make some interesting moves so I'm excited to see what happens with her. And honestly it might be fun watching when I basically hate 90% of the cast lol. 

The first hour was so poorly edited. I mean the spec people are posting here about how exactly that vote went down makes sense, but the edit was so bad that hell literally anything could have happened and we would have no way of knowing. 

I'm sorry but I still don't like Cirie. I really try, man, because I loved her so much in Panama, but she just rubs me the wrong way. I did like the Cirie/Michaela convo though. I found it weird Cirie kept stopping herself from mentioning they were both black though.

I loved that Zeke proved yet again what a terrible player he is in this ep. I love being vindicated! And Andrea's, "You suck as a player. Hope to seen you never," vote just solidified her as my #1.

Tai beating Ozzy at the challenge made me so very happy. Ozzy is such an asshole, so I'm super pumped he was booted. I loved Debbie for making that happen.

About Survivor Brooklyn, Andrea and Zeke were on it together this past summer, so it was after MvGX. You can watch it all here.

I agree re: Cirie.  I just don't understand why so many other players let her influence them.  I guess that's to her credit though.  I also noticed her catching herself before she remarked to Michaela about them both being black women.  And, as a pasty white guy my opinion shouldn't matter, but when Michaela made an explicitly racial argument for working the Cirie I thought it was a little borderline.

In contrast to Cirie, I don't think there's another player whose "myth" is so far removed from his actual game than Ozzy.  Selling yourself as the only one who can provide fish is, IMO, an awful post-merge argument to make.  He should've spent a little less time fishing and a little more time cultivating alliances that he could depend on.

[Drogo]

22 minutes ago, ferretrick said:

Has anyone figured out Cirie's Sierra vote in the 2nd Tribal?  Was she trying to force a tie?

 

17 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

It seems that people are speculating that Cirie got the group to change the plan to putting most of the votes on Hali and that she may have even volunteered to be one of the Michaela votes in order to hide the fact that she was trying to save her.

Cirie voted for Michaela in the first TC, Sierra in the second. 

Cirie was trying to force a tie at that second TC.  At that point, she didn't know Sarah was flipping (voting Ozzy) or that Debbie had an extra vote.  A tie results in no revote this season, so it would have gotten a fourth (and power player's) name on the table for the unanimous public elimination discussion. 

[Wings]

52 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Sierra the great and powerful leader:  She seems annoyed that anyone is questioning the plan, but the plan is stupid.  If you really think Hali has an Idol, you have to put more votes on her so she either goes home with the Idol or plays the Idol.  Sierra is really scared of Michaela for some reason. 

           ^^And just like that Sierra's logic, math skills, and eyebrows are eclipsed by a fourth-grader's.^^ 

 

52 minutes ago, Drogo said:

But my favorite, about Ozzy's "Oh No Not I, I Will Provide" argument: 

I know what he's trying to say, but these people don't even want fish when they're getting food prizes all the time.  He's like a guy trying to get his friends to eat kale chips when they have a pizza being delivered. 

I adore this child!  Hysterical.  

[innocuouspuff]

56 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I found it weird Cirie kept stopping herself from mentioning they were both black though.

I was laughing and sympathising with Cirie because I'd probably have been doing the same thing and it would probably have been just as awkward. I think among black people Cirie's age or older, they were trained not to be helping each other too obviously in dominantly white situations, lest some asshole get the idea that they are plotting a revolution, being too political, w/e. So while that's obviously some of the reason Cirie wants to take Michaela as her padawan and help her improve, she was superstitious about admitting that was the reason out loud.

(I think Cirie also wanted to say, Michaela, *as a black woman* you can't be making those stank faces because in our society some people will be taking that the worst way. It's not cute like when Hali does it. But again she settled for phrasing it more gently.)

I find it adorable that Ozzy still hasn't learned how to play Survivor. Andrea is still gorgeous and I could watch her smash challenges all day.

[Alapaki]

My DVR cut-off before the post-boot reveal in hour-two.  Did Debbie's extra vote make a difference, or were there enough Ozzy votes without it?

[peachmangosteen]

9 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Cirie was trying to force a tie at that second TC. 

So she knew about the plan to boot Ozzy? I wonder who told her. Or I guess maybe she just figured it out. I actually completely forget how the votes went in that TC lol. I need to rewatch.

4 minutes ago, innocuouspuff said:

I was laughing and sympathising with Cirie because I'd probably have been doing the same thing and it would probably have been just as awkward. I think among black people Cirie's age or older, they were trained not to be helping each other too obviously in dominantly white situations, lest some asshole get the idea that they are plotting a revolution, being too political, w/e.

I figured that was the reason. How unfortunate, but sadly she's right if she was doing it for that reason. 

3 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

My DVR cut-off before the post-boot reveal in hour-two.  Did Debbie's extra vote make a difference, or were there enough Ozzy votes without it?

No, she didn't need to use it.

Edited April 20, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Subrookie]

11 hours ago, princelina said:

Yes but someone posted somewhere that they did an "event" (not sure if it was a show or what exactly) called "Survivor Brooklyn" together, and knew each other from that.

I thought someone made the comment, maybe Sierra, in this episode that Michaela's reputation preceded her. So, even though the players may not have seen last season, they obviously had talked about her and other players. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Subrookie

[JudyObscure]

12 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I could not get over the nasty coded language that idiots like Sierra used about Michaela tonight: "shifty," ""blunt," "don't get a good vibe from her." I think I even heard "scary" in there. It made last season's "She's so intelligent" and "She's such a big threat" look enlightened compared to Sierra and her ilk.

 

I've always  loved Michaela, she's adorable in challenges doing cannonball dives into the ocean and picking up her tribe mates in jubilation, but even in her first season it was noticeable that sometimes, when the entire group was laughing or crying, she would be in her own world, straight faced and not participating.  We occasionally saw that her straight forward criticism of others was sometimes lacking in tact.

On the other hand I don't love Sierra and find her smug and boring to watch, but this implication that she is a racist based on these "coded," words, that have been called nasty and vile, seems like a huge leap to me.  This is Survivor and the whole idea is to get everyone  but yourself voted out.  If that means saying that someone is fake (as Zeke did about Brad last night) or someone is shady (as Andrea did about Zeke)  then that is part of the game.  I don't think of words like blunt or shifty as nasty or vile.  I could give some examples of nasty, vile words but I don't like to say them in any context.  "Intelligent," is a compliment in any standard dictionary. 

Which brings me to the "dictionary," some people seem to be using .  This imaginary book of code that has long lists of words that don't mean what most people think they mean and should never be used to describe  people of certain races  or ethnic background. How is Sierra supposed to know these secret words?   Those of us who were not raised by some version of Archie Bunker are probably not familiar with all the words that could be viewed as stereotypical.  Are ethnic people exempt from any criticism at all because it might be seen as a coded ethnic stereotype? 

One thing I've decided from these last few weeks of Survivor.  I wont be watching "The Bachelorette," this year even though I love their choice for the first black Bachelorette, because it's clear no one will be able to enjoy the usual snark and the first person who says she didn't like Rachel's shoes will be called a racist.

[Alapaki]

Episode-related since it discusses Ozzy's and Hali's boot, but Probst's Q&A with Dalton Ross at EW is interesting in how frankly he acknowledges the criteria for casting returnees.  I haven't seen him be that candid about it before.

[Alapaki]

2 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

One thing I've decided from these last few weeks of Survivor.  I wont be watching "The Bachelorette," this year even though I love their choice for the first black Bachelorette, because it's clear no one will be able to enjoy the usual snark and the first person who says she didn't like Rachel's shoes will be called a racist.

Reality-TV is an awful medium to address issues of Race.  So I agree.

I can see the view that perhaps the language Sierra used was very close to calling Michaela "uppity".  Note, that's the language, not necessarily Sierra's intent in using the words she used.

But I also think within the context of Survivor any player, regardless of race, who shows themselves to be overtly confrontational, in terms of blowing up someone else's strategy/game and/or calling out another player on something no one else knows, puts an immediate target on their back.  Players like predictability.  Unpredictability, volatility, and apparent impulsiveness are deadly traits in this game (unless they make you a goat).

So, while I can see where labeling a black woman as "confrontational" carries a good deal of cultural racist baggage, given how deadly being "confrontational" is in Survivor I don't think we ought to automatically ascribe racist motivations to anyone who calls a player who happens to be a black woman "confrontational", at least not when it's supported by what we've seen.  I don't think you can deprive other players of that argument strictly based on the color of their target's skin.

Contrast that with Varner's behavior last week in which he explicitly connected being closeted with being deceptive.  There were good arguments that Zeke is deceptive.  Hell, every player out there is.  Varner shouldn't be precluded from making the argument because Zeke was closeted, unless he was specifically making the argument because Zeke was closeted.

[waving feather]

Zeke never learns. Last season he had the same problem when he overplayed and played too aggressively at the wrong time. Now he is doing the same again! He was just pissed that he wasn't in control of the game but others were. Wait a little while and have some patience, dude! Don't let your ego get in your way. When there is fewer people, then that's time for you to make a move. I don't think he is long for this game because both sides don't trust him now.

Michaela also hasn't tried to improve her social game, until Cirie spoke some wisdom into her. That lady is wise! Being a loose canon may be fun when you are younger but it's less charming with age.

Edited April 20, 2017 by waving feather

[Nashville]

First off, @Drogo: I love your kid.

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

Hali offers to strip to prove she doesn't have an Idol:  That's a weird thing to say to people who you know want to send you home.

...but not if the only reason they might vote to send you home is because they think you have an idol.  :)

 

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

The Marshall's Spa:  Scented candles?  In a place with bugs the size of your head? 

Love it.

 

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

But my favorite, about Ozzy's "Oh No Not I, I Will Provide" argument: 

I know what he's trying to say, but these people don't even want fish when they're getting food prizes all the time.  He's like a guy trying to get his friends to eat kale chips when they have a pizza being delivered. 

Yup yup yup.  That's exactly the point I was making a few weeks back - the unending parade of food rewards totally negates the Food Provider strategy play in Survivor.

[Dominii]

Oh crap, Ozzy was voted out. He was my last great hope. I was all pouty last night until my gf finally sat me down and said that Ozzy wasn't a GOOD player; he was just a STRONG player. So all of you were right. Ozzy would never make to the final three, and, once he got there, he wouldn't know what to say.

My significant other is still a Cirie fan, but I thought her strategic game last night was really lacking. She threw her vote away by voting against Sierra (or was it Aubrey)? Ozzy might still be here if it weren't for those stupid nowhere votes.

So now, I have to find a new hero to win it all. Andrea is a good player, but she's got an annoying ego problem. Sierra's is even worse. Zeke is so uncool--he turns against everyone and can't be trusted. Tai is a loose cannon; Deb is crazy; Culpepper is a dick; Sarah who? (and Aubrey too!) This leaves Michaela and Troyzan. I like Michaela, but I don't think she has a chance. Wouldn't it be awesome, though, if a black woman actually won?

So, this leaves Troyzan.  Good ol' Troyzan. Troyzan, the middle of the road, don't make any waves guy. He's everyone's favorite older dude. He looks like an older version of Jesus. So, now that I can't have Ozzy with the Jesus hair, my new favorite is Troyzan, with the grayer Jesus hair. If we can't have Malcom or Ozzy, Troyzan will have to do. Long may he survive! 

[Drogo]

Just now, waving feather said:

Zeke never learns. Last season he had the same problem when he overplayed and played too aggressively at the wrong time.

I guess they don't teach Timing at Harvard?

[Wings]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Which brings me to the "dictionary," some people seem to be using .  This imaginary book of code that has long lists of words that don't mean what most people think they mean and should never be used to describe  people of certain races  or ethnic background. How is Sierra supposed to know these secret words?   Those of us who were not raised by some version of Archie Bunker are probably not familiar with all the words that could be viewed as stereotypical.  Are ethnic people exempt from any criticism at all because it might be seen as a coded ethnic stereotype? 

Your entire post is excellent.  I mentioned that Obama was articulate and got blasted for that.  I had no idea that is code speak. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by wings707

[Rachel RSL]

23 minutes ago, Subrookie said:

I thought someone made the comment, maybe Sierra, in this episode that Micheala's reputation preceeded her. So, even though the players may not have seen last season, they obviously had talked about it. 

I'm think it was Culpepper who said that. I just assumed he was talking about her reputation from this season.  Meaning that people who had been on a tribe with her before the 2 swaps had discussed it with people who hadn't yet been on the same tribe as her.

7 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

 Varner shouldn't be precluded from making the argument because Zeke was closeted, unless he was specifically making the argument because Zeke was closeted.

That is exactly why he was specifically making that argument.

[Wings]

14 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Yup yup yup.  That's exactly the point I was making a few weeks back - the unending parade of food rewards totally negates the Food Provider strategy play in Survivor.

I have been singing that same song for many seasons now.  Hali lost 2.4 pounds and Ozzy 15,  when they arrived at Ponderosa.  And they both had salads for their first meal!  No falling face down into a cheeseburger.  

Edited April 20, 2017 by wings707

[waving feather]

Some of the comments Sierra made about Michaela are valid and it's nothing to do with being black. Michaela was that way last season as well, saying unnecessary things or showing unnecessary attitude at times. She even admitted that she has no poker face or even try to have one! I think it's just immaturity. Nothing that can't be fixed over time. Cirie, on the other hand, has always been smart and calm even when she is in dire situations on the show, so it's just a person's personality and character. Nothing to do with race, IMO.

Edited April 20, 2017 by waving feather

[Nashville]

21 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

Varner shouldn't be precluded from making the argument because Zeke was closeted, unless he was specifically making the argument because Zeke was closeted.

 

6 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

 

That is exactly why he was specifically making that argument.

Varner's core argument was that Zeke was being deceptive, specifically because Zeke didn't introduce himself as, "Hi!  I'm Zeke and I'm trans!"

So Varner did it for Zeke - with zero regard for why Zeke may not have volunteered that information.

[Bronzedog]

I was switching back and forth between this and another channel.  Every time I came back to this, people were enjoying  a feast.  A whole lot of eating going on.  So, I had to laugh at Ozzie's parting comment "good luck finding food".  Umm, Oz?  These people seem to be eating really well without you.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Bronzedog

[piequinn35]

Good for Michaela to calm down on the second hour. 

I'm okay with Ozzy and Hali going home, Ozzy still serious as ever, Jeff thanking him for handing the idol "ya", Tai said to him he's bleeding "ya". :/ 

Tai and Debbie crazy as ever, nothing to say more.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed both episodes.  I think Zeke is very much overrated as a player.  I still think he always wants to be in control and then gets borderline angry when people don't fall in line with him.  He has quite the nasty streak, he's had those outbursts during tribal where he can be quite ugly and belligerent to other players.  I think he always overplays.  I get that he probably felt he had to talk about the Varner outing to the other half of the people who weren't there, so they hear it from him themselves, but no doubt he was doing it as strategy.  I think he's a hypocrite.  He was whining about how Brad volunteering to give up the food was purely strategic, when he certainly could have done the same thing and chose not to.  He was just jealous or upset that he couldn't bring himself to do it.

2 hours ago, Vyk said:

Was sad to see Hali go, especially since she was targeted for no other reason than she was an original Mana who hadn't thrown in with Brad like Troyzan and Aubry had.  But at least she went out with class.

Hali... such a nonentity.  I agree with you that she was targeted because she and Michaela were the two on the outs... but if she knew that why didn't she try more to get in with one of the groups?  I have no idea why TPTB even picked her for this season, other than maybe they wanted to fill the "young and pretty" quota and she qualified.  Her game is terrible.  Her parting words just displayed her utter cluelessness... "I have no idea what I did wrong or why I was targeted".

I have always loathed Ozzy and I'm so glad he was voted out.  Clearly he was surprised.  His social game is terrible.  He views himself as king and thinks that nobody will dare to vote out The Great Ozzy.  The "I provide food for people" argument just displayed that cluelessness.  All of them except for Brad and Tai had a huge merge feast.  They don't need his food.  So happy to see Tai beat him at that pole challenge.  "I'm just telling you now Jeff, I'm going to break my record."  Buh bye.

I am loving Cirie.  I like her demeanor and I thought it was great that she was giving Michaela some help.  Michaela is stubborn and hotheaded and I thought it was great that someone finally sat her down and told her how she comes across.  Cirie showing Michaela what the "Michaela face" looks like was priceless.  Michaela has probably always had a chip on her shoulder, and I'm glad that when an older "black American female" gave her advice, she actually seemed to listen.  Had anyone else said to her what Cirie did, I'm sure Michaela would have been all "ain't nobody gonna tell me what to do".  Let's see how long the enlightened Michaela lasts.

[Bryce Lynch]

12 hours ago, Artsda said:

Awww Ozzy. Wish you had won the veto. 

What has Cirie done this game? She's horrible at challenges and puzzles.  It's like they're dragging her to the end.

Cirie seems to have a great social game.  She is sort of like a kinder, gentler version of Sandra.   She seems very persuasive and is able to make other players believe what she wants to do is in THEIR best interests.  

[fishcakes]

If we're going to get two back-to-back episodes, I wish they would select two that weren't so boring.

The first episode is why I think the "Cirie is a mastermind" thing is a myth. I can't tell what the alliances are because everyone seems to be talking to everyone, but it looks like the cores are Brad/Sierra vs. Andrea/Cirie with everyone else at varying levels of being up for grabs. Cirie knew the plan was to split the vote between Hali and Michaela and she knows that Hali is on the outs with Brad/Sierra. If the vote is split, it seems like that gives her an opportunity to gather up a majority to vote off one of Brad or Sierra. At that point it looked like Cirie, Andrea, and Zeke were tight, Michaela and Hali were obviously looking to save themselves and get into an alliance, Ozzie and Sarah seemed to be more inclined to go with this group than with the other side, and Aubry looks open too (although I think she's wanting to work with Brad, she's pragmatic enough to go with the other group if she can't be in his inner circle). That's a potential eight on Cirie's side and only five who are likely to be committed to a split vote. I can't believe Cirie didn't try to work that harder. She kept saying that voting off Michaela solidifies the other side's majority, but so does voting off Hali. She saved Michaela, but didn't strengthen her overall game position.

Sierra is ridiculously full of herself. Brad is pulling her strings while playing Mr. Nice Guy, and she doesn't even realize it. The same could probably be said for Debbie, but Debbie's delusions are on a whole other level so I can't even get annoyed with her. "Oh Debbie is dry humping Cirie, oh Debbie is mooning Tai, I hope next she'll do more pushups and scream at people," is my reaction to Debbie at this point. But Sierra and her "I'm the sheriff" and her fingerguns and the irrational hatred of Michaela are enough already. And while I'm glad that people are objecting to the way she talks about Michaela, I wish the objection to the coded racism from players extended to the language that's been used about Tai for two seasons and to a lesser extent about Sandra and Ozzy as well. Ignorance of what constitutes racism is itself a form of racism. If Sierra, JT, or anyone else doesn't understand that what they're saying is racist, then it's because they don't want to know. The language that's problematic when applied to some groups of people but not others is not a secret to people who genuinely care about not being racist. No one is keeping it a secret. For people who don't care, that's their choice, but to justify it with, "I didn't know," "I've never heard that," "how am I supposed to keep up with what offends you people?" doesn't fly.

On the other hand, Brad Culpepper continues not to annoy me, which tells me how dismal this season is. I don't want him to win -- I think I'm pulling for Andrea at this point just because Sandra's no longer an option -- but as long as it's not Sierra, I'm good with anyone. Or ... maybe not Troy either. I don't know why Troy is still bugging me so much considering how invisible he's been, but he does. He does make some hilarious faces, though; his look of panic at the pole challenge made me laugh out loud. I can never see that challenge without thinking of Parvati standing up straight and relaxed with the outside edge of her foot tucked into the groove. I don't know why more people don't do it that way instead of the uncomfortable looking squat-hug almost everyone adopts.

The Marshall's spa also made me laugh only because when has any Marshall's store anywhere ever had a matching set of towels or dishware?

[AttackTurtle]

Well that sucked.  I like Cirie, but I'm rooting for Andrea from here on out.  Zeke totally blew it.  It doesn't appear that he has an alliance at all now as he burned Cirie, Andrea & Ozzy, but didn't even gain the trust of the other side in the process and all b/c he felt he wasn't running the show.

How exactly did Sarah come to be known as a game changer?  She looks absolutely petrified to be there.

And dear God, Debbie is delusional.   What a waste of an extra vote.   

[sadiegirl1999]

I loved how Debbie mentioned Exile.

Which brings me to...why was that a one-off? (As far as we know). I think someone posted that week that it was more for Debbie to not have a mental breakdown.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I enjoyed both episodes.  I think Zeke is very much overrated as a player.  I still think he always wants to be in control and then gets borderline angry when people don't fall in line with him.  He has quite the nasty streak, he's had those outbursts during tribal where he can be quite ugly and belligerent to other players.  I think he always overplays.  I get that he probably felt he had to talk about the Varner outing to the other half of the people who weren't there, so they hear it from him themselves, but no doubt he was doing it as strategy.  I think he's a hypocrite.  He was whining about how Brad volunteering to give up the food was purely strategic, when he certainly could have done the same thing and chose not to.  He was just jealous or upset that he couldn't bring himself to do it.

Hali... such a nonentity.  I agree with you that she was targeted because she and Michaela were the two on the outs... but if she knew that why didn't she try more to get in with one of the groups?  I have no idea why TPTB even picked her for this season, other than maybe they wanted to fill the "young and pretty" quota and she qualified.  Her game is terrible.  Her parting words just displayed her utter cluelessness... "I have no idea what I did wrong or why I was targeted".

I have always loathed Ozzy and I'm so glad he was voted out.  Clearly he was surprised.  His social game is terrible.  He views himself as king and thinks that nobody will dare to vote out The Great Ozzy.  The "I provide food for people" argument just displayed that cluelessness.  All of them except for Brad and Tai had a huge merge feast.  They don't need his food.  So happy to see Tai beat him at that pole challenge.  "I'm just telling you now Jeff, I'm going to break my record."  Buh bye.

I am loving Cirie.  I like her demeanor and I thought it was great that she was giving Michaela some help.  Michaela is stubborn and hotheaded and I thought it was great that someone finally sat her down and told her how she comes across.  Cirie showing Michaela what the "Michaela face" looks like was priceless.  Michaela has probably always had a chip on her shoulder, and I'm glad that when an older "black American female" gave her advice, she actually seemed to listen.  Had anyone else said to her what Cirie did, I'm sure Michaela would have been all "ain't nobody gonna tell me what to do".  Let's see how long the enlightened Michaela lasts.

I agree Zeke is overrated.  I think he is an almost very good player, who has a lot of good ideas and can influence people, but he just can't resist going too far.  During the confessional about the reward, he said that it is great to get to relax and eat, but it can make you lose focus on strategy. I think his problem might be that he obsesses too much about strategy and doesn't take a break.  If you keep going over things over and over and over in your mind, there is a good chance you will begin to doubt the good plan you already have in place and put some dumb ideas into your head.

I'm not an Ozzy fanboi, but I like him well enough.  He does really need a social and strategic game beyond, "I'll get them to keep me around for the fish and coconuts and then go on an immunity challenge run.", though.

Cirie is a great social player.  I loved how she mentored Michaela and used it for their mutual benefit.

Michaela is a bit stubborn and wears her heart on her sleeve, but I don't think she is quite as bad as many people think.  Despite her bluntness, she had a decent social game going last season, but then her allies (notably Jay) realized what a threat she was and decided to get rid of her.  That seemed like business, not personal.

This season, there don't seem to be too many people for Michaela to work with.  She seemed to relate much better to the Millennial tribe last season, and while some liked her and some didn't, the seemed to get her.  It seems like a lot of the older players this season just don't know what to make of her.  She also seems to have trouble finding things in common with them, to build relationships.  She hit it off with Sandra, who took her under her wing, but she is gone.  Hali seemed to be about the only other player she had much in common with, until Cirie took her under her wing.   One thing I have been impressed with is how Michaela was willing to put her trust in both Sandra and Cirie.  

[Rachel RSL]

8 hours ago, fishcakes said:

The language that's problematic when applied to some groups of people but not others is not a secret to people who genuinely care about not being racist. No one is keeping it a secret. For people who don't care, that's their choice, but to justify it with, "I didn't know," "I've never heard that," "how am I supposed to keep up with what offends you people?" doesn't fly.

In all fairness, the problematic/coded words are actual words that have an actual meaning so it's not always racism, even subconscious racism, when those words are used. A perfect example is when Michaela was referred to as intelligent last season and a lot of people here claimed it was casual racism, as if Jay or whoever couldn't believe a black female was actually intelligent. But, in reality, Michaela had just layed out (laid out?) a well-thought out strategy and showed Jay, step by step, how it was going to work. She is intelligent and the fact that she showed herself to be an intelligent strategist is why she was voted out.   Until I came here to the boards, I never would have guessed that calling someone intelligent was some sort of coded racist insult.  And, frankly, I still don't think it is...at least not in the context it was used here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that those words are never used in a negative way towards certain races but I don't think it's fair to assume that it's a case of racism every single time one of those words is used.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Rachel RSL

[kikaha]

1 hour ago, innocuouspuff said:

I was laughing and sympathising with Cirie because I'd probably have been doing the same thing and it would probably have been just as awkward. I think among black people Cirie's age or older, they were trained not to be helping each other too obviously in dominantly white situations, lest some asshole get the idea that they are plotting a revolution, being too political, w/e. So while that's obviously some of the reason Cirie wants to take Michaela as her padawan and help her improve, she was superstitious about admitting that was the reason out loud.

(I think Cirie also wanted to say, Michaela, *as a black woman* you can't be making those stank faces because in our society some people will be taking that the worst way. It's not cute like when Hali does it. But again she settled for phrasing it more gently.)

Michaela's problem in Survivor is that her social game sucks.  She has no poker face.  She doesn't establish many close relations.  She often appears to be on patrol, trying to ferret out plots against her.  Black, white, or any color in between, that creates problems for you in this game.  People won't trust you.  They will want to boot you.  This has happened to Michaela two seasons in a row now. 

Cirie's basic message to her was the same thing many posters here at previously have been saying from the early part of last season.  Play it cool.  Don't wear your emotions on your face.  Calm down.  Instead of getting manipulated, start manipulating. 

Hali, btw, got voted out this episode.  So that behavior, to whatever extent she engaged in it, didn't work for her either. 

[Whimsy]

I wanted to give a quick shout out to you all for being able to have a civil conversation about race in this thread. 

There are a couple of posts that I was very close to hiding, but there have been some very well constructed, thought out, responses to them that I have decided to keep them for now.  If this discussion starts to get nasty, I will hide everything.  I just like it when different view points can be discussed respectfully.

[Bryce Lynch]

23 minutes ago, AttackTurtle said:

Well that sucked.  I like Cirie, but I'm rooting for Andrea from here on out.  Zeke totally blew it.  It doesn't appear that he has an alliance at all now as he burned Cirie, Andrea & Ozzy, but didn't even gain the trust of the other side in the process and all b/c he felt he wasn't running the show.

How exactly did Sarah come to be known as a game changer?  She looks absolutely petrified to be there.

And dear God, Debbie is delusional.   What a waste of an extra vote.   

Debbie is definitely delusional, but Sierra and Zeke seem to be almost as delusional, strictly from a Survivor standpoint.  All 3 think WAY too much of themselves.  Sierra is nothing but Culpepper's sidekick, but she thinks she is the "sheriff".  More like Deputy Barney Fife.  

It will be interesting to see how the alliances shake out next week.  Obviously Culpepper and Sierra are firmly allied and Debbie, Tai and Troyzan seem to be on board.  But, Debbie is totally nuts and Tai is a notorious flipper and has two idols, so I don't think they can be counted on too strongly.  Troyzan doesn't seem all that enthusiastic about being on team Culpepper either. 

On the other side, Andrea, Cirie, Michaela and, I think, Aubry seem pretty solid.  

I have no idea where Sarah and Zeke will end up.  Both seem to like making dumb moves for the sake of making dumb moves, and Zeke doesn't really seem to have a home right now.  

Edited April 20, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[ShadowSixx]

Zeke is like Cass, wants to make big moves just for the sake of making big moves because it's the easiest way to win $1M. It never works because others will see that as playing too hard and being too aggressive. It makes you a wild card and untrustworthy. People can't trust you and the majority will vote you out whether you're an ally or not. As you all said it's all about making right moves at the right time no matter how big or small. Even small moves can make you win the whole thing. 

[IgnoranceisBLISS]

11 hours ago, GaT said:

I don’t know how, but I didn’t notice Sierra’s eyebrows again until tonight. Now they’re bugging the hell out of me, & how is her manicure still perfect?

I have been trying to figure this out for the last three episodes!!!!!

[fishcakes]

10 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

In all fairness, the problematic/coded words are actual words that have an actual meaning so it's not always racism, even subconcsious racism, when those words are used. A perfect example is when Michaela was referred to as intelligent last season and a lot of people here claimed it was casual racism, as if Jay or whoever couldn't believe a black female was actually intelligent. But, in reality, Michaela has just layed out (laid out?) a well-thought out strategy and showed Jay, step by step, how it was going to work. She is intelligent and the fact that she showed herself to be an intelligent strategist is why she was voted out.   Until I came here to the boards, I never would have guessed that calling someone intelligent was some sort of coded racist insult.  And, frankly, I still don't think it is...at least not in the context it was used here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that those words are never used in negative way towards certain races but I don't think it's fair to assume that it's a case of racism every single time one of those words is used.

I don't think anyone is saying that every instance of those words = racism. But I have seen a pattern in the criticisms Michaela and Tai that employs common stereotypes of Black and Asian people and that doesn't seem to have much, if any, basis in fact. And when people try to talk about that here, the response can be disheartening, which is why I normally try to stay out of it.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

Zeke is like Cass, wants to make big moves just for the sake of making big moves because it's the easiest way to win $1M. It never works because others will see that as playing too hard and being too aggressive. It makes you a wild card and untrustworthy. People can't trust you and the majority will vote you out whether you're an ally or not. As you all said it's all about making right moves at the right time no matter how big or small. Even small moves can make you win the whole thing. 

The difference with Zeke, is that he actually has a sympathetic, likable side to him and has good social skills and good strategic ideas.  He just can't seem to stick to the plan and tricks himself into making bad moves.  He has as much potential to be a Sole Survivor as just about anybody, but he can't get out of his own way.

IMO, Kass was nothing but a bomb thrower, who had "zero chance of winning the game" and stirred up trouble to make herself feel like she was relevant, rather than to try to win. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Daisy]

Hey, Cirie! Glad to see you (waves). can you please not be all Gangsta Oprah too soon now? 

As a lot of people have stated  - Ozzy is fully in "Old Survivor" where "what will we eat? You need me." doesn't fly. actually to be fair, what season was it when someone said, It's okay I don't mind starving for 9 more days? (I don't think it was a recent season. my Survivorpedia mind is failing me, I feel so sad). but I do agree with the comment of - Ozzy is really one of the best people to have because he's relatively loyal. and I don't think he was a factor to win because he has zero social game. (but he is a challenge threat, naturally not this week when I picked him to win the endurance challenges and he failed me. thanks Ozzy. screwed me in my pool this week. ditto you dummies for voting out Hali first. grr). 

Zeke is totally overplaying (again) and I think this is why I really hate the whole banging of the "make big moves!" drum. his quote was something like. "Do you regret making the move and coming out early, or not making the move and going home." or something and he's like you've gotta make the move, and I'm like OR DON'T?!. there is no reason for Zeke to target Andrea/Cirie. It screamed to me that Zeke wanted to be the Mafia Don controlling everything, where as, how Sandra (sigh. miss her), and to an extent Cirie play it - is that they know when to back away. Why shoot your load off at 12? plenty of time and numbers (and a bigger case imo). pick off Sierra (please. i hate her), pick off Brad, or whatever. have visual evidence of Andrea/Cirie running things, and then take over. Doing it now is just more of being tralalallalalaa! I made a big move. 

And He lost Andrea (and to a certain extent Cirie, but I think Cirie would circle back where I'm not sure Andrea would). 

Michalea and Cirie was so sweet. And I think that was something Michalea needed to hear. I love the little outside the game moments like this. It makes me miss old Survivor where we saw more bonding/camp life, so when these people were backstabbed it really hurt (laugh).  

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I don't think anyone is saying that every instance of those words = racism. But I have seen a pattern in the criticisms Michaela and Tai that employs common stereotypes of Black and Asian people and that doesn't seem to have much, if any, basis in fact. And when people try to talk about that here, the response can be disheartening, which is why I normally try to stay out of it.

I am probably Michaela's biggest fan and do not like Sierra at all, but it is not clear there was anything racial about what she said.  

Calling her "blunt" was a job for Captain Obvious.  That is one of the first words anyone, including Michaela, would use to describe her.  

"Shifty" seemed totally off base.  It is hard to be "blunt"  and "shifty" at the same time.  While "shifty" could conceivably have some racial connotation to it, it is not necessarily the case.  

My theory is that Sierra's own paranoia and guilty conscience over knowing she was plotting to vote out Michaela made Michaela seem "shifty" to her.  She made comments about how every time people try to talk, Michaela shows up or sneaks up or whatever.  I think that was because when you know you are talking negatively about someone and they show up, you FEEL like they are stalking you, because you are nervous about them hearing what you are saying. 

[meep.meep]

14 hours ago, Artsda said:

Awww Ozzy. Wish you had won the veto. 

What has Cirie done this game? She's horrible at challenges and puzzles.  It's like they're dragging her to the end.

Never went to tribal, that's what she's done this game.

Too bad we never got to see her and Sandra play together.

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, meep.meep said:

Never went to tribal, that's what she's done this game.

Too bad we never got to see her and Sandra play together.

Oh gosh.. yes. (sigh).