S34.E04: The Tables Have Turned

[Jobiska]

3 minutes ago, TaraS1 said:

Are there monkeys in this location? Because I really need one to swoop in and rip those freakish eyebrows off Sierra's face. I can't have peace in my soul until they're gone. 

Alas, no.  Will you accept a "monkey-faced flying fox" thinking they are two small blue bananas?

[Silver Raven]

Hali has a really obnoxious voice.

Dammit, Tai.  Why do people reveal their idols? And then just randomly give them away?

So much whispering and colluding at that TC.  That was hilarious.

That may have been the best TC in a long time.

[azshadowwalker]

Sandra continues. Boring Malcolm is gone. JT shot himself in the foot like the idiot he is. Fuck, yeah! 

[mishap]

Seemed to me like Tai wasn't sure if he was supposed to play it.  Did he turn around and get the go ahead from Culpepper, and then had no idea who was supposed to get it.  I never thought he was a power player, but now he seems to have given up.  Nothing but a puppet. 

Sierra did not need to kiss Malcom.    Sitting right by him giggling with glee , and then giving him the kiss off.  I know it's just a game and I'm being a sore loser because  I would much rather have Malcom stay.  He is one of my favorites,  of all the castaways, ever. 

[SourK]

I loved the shocking twist for once, firstly because nobody knew WTF to do and it disrupted their normal voting strategies, and secondly because this was a really smart time for the producers to do it -- when they had a cast of returning players who had come back (allegedly) because they were good at understanding how to play the game. Imagine if you did this with a cast of first-timers or half a tribe full of people who don't know which way's up during a regular vote.

There are some things I don't understand about what happened at tribal, and what some people were trying to do, but it was refreshingly different.

[awaken]

Darn. I was really looking forward to "malcomb" and JT taking it far. 

I really didn't understand what was happening at TC but it was entertaining!  

[azshadowwalker]

44 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

OK, when she doesn't make it to the merge this time we can revisit 

If that comes to pass, she will have won 2 out of 3 times. What a failure. We need more Great Players who have to have 4 chances in order to win once or who make multiple FTC only to lose them all. People who win 2 out of 3 times are a dime a dozen...

[LadyChatts]

39 minutes ago, mishap said:

Seemed to me like Tai wasn't sure if he was supposed to play it.  Did he turn around and get the go ahead from Culpepper, and then had no idea who was supposed to get it.  I never thought he was a power player, but now he seems to have given up.  Nothing but a puppet. 

Sierra did not need to kiss Malcom.    Sitting right by him giggling with glee , and then giving him the kiss off.  I know it's just a game and I'm being a sore loser because  I would much rather have Malcom stay.  He is one of my favorites,  of all the castaways, ever. 

Sierra's actions were high schoolish.  I get she was happy, even though I have no idea why they considered her such a threat.  But that was tacky.  She got lucky Tai was so wishy washy and had to be told what to do.  Tai telling the tribe about his idol was kind of like the nerdy kid at school looking for acceptance from the cool kids.  He seemed quite pleased with himself, to the point I wish someone had told him that another swap could be coming, and he might be outnumbered.  Some castaways aren't meant to play in the big leagues.  Tai is clearly one of them.

I wonder if Sia is a bigger Malcolm fan and will storm the stage this year to scold Tai and give money to Malcolm's favorite charity.

Edited March 23, 2017 by LadyChatts

[Rachel RSL]

7 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

If that comes to pass, she will have won 2 out of 3 times. What a failure. We need more Great Players who have to have 4 chances in order to win once or who make multiple FTC only to lose them all. People who win 2 out of 3 times are a dime a dozen...

I love you. Please marry me.

[mojoween]

I'm still so steamed.  I personally hate arbitrary bullshit like this that comes out of fucking nowhere and also that damned idol conveniently found so the producers could blow their load at what I imagine they thought was the best Tribal Council EVARRRR.

Like, can't the game just play out organically for once?  Ulong sucking over and over and over and over wasn't a travesty, it was interesting to see how long it could go.  And the answer to that question was forever.

Tonight's TC was like that bullshit one that got Michelle booted in whateverthefuck season that was.

Yes, I am super salty.  Probably wouldn't be so pissed if it wasn't the ONE player I adore above all others, but here we are.

I was just thinking about who I could root for now and so far I've come up empty.  Ozzy, I guess.  Whatever.

I blame you for this, VARNER.

[Wandering Snark]

Wow I guess people really like Malcolm huh? I didn't expect that much emotion from him being voted out. Interesting.

I think this would be worse than going out on a rock draw actually. I think JT got what was coming to him with his right-hand man being taken out indirectly by his own attempt to get someone else out.

I hated seeing the continued Season of the Queen, especially with her "Well I know I'm not going home!" statement as well as her dismissively telling Hali that she didn't need her vote.

Runner up was Debbie straight up asking who she's supposed to be voting for... these people have played before I thought.

For a second I thought he was going to tell them they are one happy family now and send them to just one beach together awaiting their new tribe designations at the next challenge, maybe back to two tribes again just to keep them guessing as that is becoming the obvious gameplan here.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Wandering Snark

[green]

3 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

That TC was crazy! I didn't like that they all got to talk amongst themselves for so long before the vote though. It seemed like Jeff had lost control over the TC.  

I wish Sandra had been voted off. Her ego is out of control. I was waiting for Malcolm to 'cuss all the way out of TC' for getting voted off, he didn't. I was disappointed because I thought that would have been great.

He didn't lose control.  He was loving it.  He got the drama he wanted for production to use.  And Sandra has a dry sense of humor.  She is having fun with this.  It's a self-aware and even self-depreciating humorous thing to do this over the top "queen" stuff.  No one takes her seriously much less herself.

3 hours ago, Lamima said:

 ... Not happy that stupid Jeffo allowed them all to converse with each other, standing huddled and whispering. That should not be allowed at TC. They should only be allowed to speak like witnesses at a trial where Jeff is the one asking questions.

Why?  The whole point of filming hours of tribal council is to produce good TV drama and eye-popping moments.  They want stuff like this to happen and it should happen or else it would be as boring as watching the local town selectmen voting on the proposed new road tax or something.

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I have a feeling they didn't go with Brad because J.T. is clearly tight with him and they were worried they couldn't get him fully on board. And since the numbers were so close, 6-5 and they were worried about just one person flipping and J.T. being the likely one to do just that since he was down 5-1 in the tribe, they figured it was safer to avoid the risk and go with someone who the others would not think they were going to vote for.

Well that is of until of course J.T. the dumbass decided to tell  Brad they were voting for Sierra. And I think that's why they're all pissed and think he set them up at the tribal council. Because if that is how it went down, it really does seem like he knew exactly what he was doing. While instead I think he may just be the dumbest Survivor winner ever - yes even more so than Fabio.

Good catch that.  And I STILL have no memory of this guy JT ever having been on my TV screen before.  I've seen all the seasons and I can't believe this guy was on a season let alone won.  So not just dumb but completely forgettable.

2 hours ago, mishap said:

I'm not really surprised Tai showed it to everyone, because Tai is not a good player, IMO,  but I am always dumbfounded when anyone who has an idol shows it to anyone else, ever.  I guess Tai is thinking of the team, but the team is a fleeting thing. They can switch them at the drop of a hat.  I know numbers matter in a merge, but still -- it's an individual game.   Keep that shit to yourself, for yourself. 

Yeah Tai says he is playing with his head this time and not his heart but it just isn't true.  He was too into helping a current "tribe" he is on and too little into playing for himself.  Still love the guy but his attempt to be a tough, cold player this time around is just backfiring on him left and right.  He isn't meant for that type of game.  He can't play it because it goes against the grain of who he is so he ends up messing up left and right.  Which makes me both love him more and feel sorry for him at the same time.

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

She wasn't in the scene when Tai showed it to everyone else....she may not have known about it.

Yeah good catch.  Hali (sp?) is a weird one.  I don't like the smarmy lawyer I saw last week but this week I liked her better.  But I'm not sure what she was doing at tribal council.  I think she was trying to help Sandra's tribe but not sure what she was trying to tell them other than to vote for Brad.  Wish they had listened.  They either didn't trust her enough or they didn't trust JT to go along with it maybe.

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She won the 2nd time because she was sitting next to Russell Hantz and his henchwoman.  It is not like Sandra has somw magical power to make juries vote for her.  

I'd say she did have some great magical power to make the jury vote for her.  The power to manage to get there and sit beside Russell at the end in the first place.

Still rooting for Sandra.  The edit is weird because no one could possibly believe she takes herself serious with her "queen" routine.  It's a made for TV twirl the mustache over the top routine obviously.  Maybe the editors think the audience is that stupid to believe she is serious about all this instead of just playing around having fun with it.  Anyway if so she won't last much longer if they are trying to portray all this as a straight edit.

OTOH Brad is getting the real villain's edit.  And I can get behind that POV for my viewing pleasure giving me hope for a big comeuppance in the future regards him.

I liked Malcolm and hated to see him go.  But if it was between Malcolm or Sandra going it had to be him. 

Oh why, Tai, did you share your idol with a tribe you want to prove your loyalty to over and over again as they plot and plan to boot you next?  You are too nice a person to play this game.  It twists you into a pretzel not of your ethical choosing.  Much rather whats-her-name got booted instead. Oh well my dream of Sandra and Malcolm someday working together alongside Circe and Tai has been destroyed.  My "returnee" favorites never team up on this show.

Edited March 23, 2017 by green

[Trick Question]

1 hour ago, LanceM said:

I think there is a good possibility that Tai found that in a previous episode and they just used the footage of him finding tonight because it was more dramatic. But I could be wrong.

Agreed, the editing seemed wonky.  They're all sitting around camp chatting, cut to Tai looking around and finding a clue that requires him to dig in the middle of camp, then smash cut to them all sitting around again and he reveals his idol.  Rather than producer interference, it could be that there was one idol hidden at each of the original campsites (Mana-Red and Nuku-Blue), and then for the newly-created tribe (Tavua-Green) they instead did the "clue to idol at the challenge" thing that Troy found.  So based on this, there should still be an idol hidden somewhere at the Nuku camp that Sandra, Michaela, JT, Varner or Aubry could find.

Quote

I thought he was going to pull out the pom poms and start a cheer during the RC, all for his man crush Brad.  It's like he forgot anyone else was competing at that point.  The look on his face and excitement in his voice "Mana won thanks to Culpepper" was like idol worship.

In fairness, Culpepper was legitimately super-impressive in that challenge.  He was so good at throwing my friend asked if he played quarterback in the NFL, rather than linebacker.

[Rachel RSL]

10 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

I think this would be worse than going out on a rock draw actually. I think JT got what was coming to him with his right-hand man being taken out indirectly by his own attempt to get someone else out.

And during their TC huddle, he actually told his tribe "I just told him we weren't voting for him". Not only is he an idiot for telling Brad anything, he was then dumb enough to admit it to his tribe.

[Wandering Snark]

I think we saw this Tribal pretty much as it went down... well, with the exception of the breaks they took for Probst to change his pants... he wasn't going to put out a 'call to order' because he was freakin' loving the chaos. This was an odd tribal that lent itself to that though. I doubt they will allow such 'huddles' to occur in the regular one tribe tribals. I hope at least or this could be a Pandora's Box point from which tribal would never be the same.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Wandering Snark

[Wings]

They have Pepperidge Farm Milano cookies in Tahiti.  Well damn, I can't get their thin sliced bread in Phoenix, they probably have that, too.  AND Malcom is gone.  Not good.

Edited March 23, 2017 by wings707

[Trick Question]

Three mistakes and two semi-mistakes by Sandra's team...

1. Not having more belief that an idol could be in play.
2. Not voting for Debbie (since if you're worried about an idol, you vote for the person least likely to have it, i.e. The Edgardo Strategy)
3. Not voting for Tai, along the same lines as #2.  He and Debbie aren't big-picture threats, but as long as someone is going home from that tribe, it's fine.
4. (semi) Not voting for Hali, and just cutting the cord as to whether you can trust her or not.
5 (semi). Not trying the REALLY advanced move and eliminating JT.  If they pull Hali aside and tell her to vote for JT, you'd think she would've been on board.  Malcolm wouldn't have been up for that plan, but they wouldn't actually have needed him.  It would've gone five votes JT (Hali, Varner, Sandra, Aubry, Michaela), four votes Malcolm (Debbie, Tai, Brad, Sierra), two votes Sierra (JT, Malcolm).

 

One mistake by Debbie's team...

1. Not eliminating Sandra when you have the chance.  Malcolm is a threat but you know how to beat him.  Sandra is still the John Wick of Survivor (who has now, btw, somehow made it through THREE TRIBAL COUNCILS WITH A SINGLE VOTE).

[ImpinAintEasy]

Fucking Varner, man. YOU HAD ONE JOB!!! Malcolm was screwed. This was worse than drawing rocks. And the fact that it was Sierra who was saved makes it that much worse. UGH!

I think the season is setting up as Halli vs Brad. Likely with Halli winning. I don't see the appeal, personally. Her voice annoys me too, and I don't think she's that great of a player. 

[piequinn35]

Wow crazy tc, I wonder how many hours did that take lol and Brad wrote Malcomb :)) 

[princelina]

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

So once again J.T. fucked up a plan that was set in stone and blew someone's else's game. I just knew it was going to be Malcolm because they were telegraphing Sandra's exit so loudly. And seriously, these people baffle me - Malcolm is the biggest threat out there - REALLY? Yeah he's a physical threat but he's also lost three times. But sure keep letting the woman who's won twice get past every tribal council. Freaking morons. 

They all are. They showed Michaela telling Jeff that she thinks J.T. knew the plan and set them up for it. Like I just cannot understand how he thought it necessary to go tell Culpepper that they were voting for Sierra. Like why? 

And if he did find it necessary, why didn't he also confirm that they were voting for Sandra like he thought?

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

How did JT win this show again?  

By partnering with someone who was way smarter and way less attractive than himself?

2 hours ago, Maverick said:

 I call bigger shenanigans that Tai just showed it to everyone on his tribe.   

Really? The man's a moron - I expected it :)

[Charlesman]

I noticed Michaela rolling her eyes again at a challenge when someone else didn't rock it right away. But she got her turn at the labyrinth and didn't do anything, apparently. Wish I could have savored that a bit more. 

 

But thanks to the editors for throwing in a shot of my favorite fish, the quick color changing cuttlefish, which was the perfect metaphor for a great TC. 

 

I love when this show keeps adding new twists. Keep it up! 

[GaT]

I was caught completely off guard by the votes for Sierra & Malcolm. When Tai gave the HII to Sierra, I thought he lost his mind & should have given it to Brad. Then when Jeff was reading the votes & nothing came up for Sandra, I was surprised again, why didn't they vote Sandra off? She's more dangerous than Malcolm was.

Just a little thing I noticed, how does Sierra's manicure still look so good?

[Fiftyninth]

16 minutes ago, princelina said:

3 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

How did JT win this show again?  

By partnering with someone who was way smarter and way less attractive than himself?

Stephen is one of my biggest Survivor crushes ever. And he's certainly aged better than JT (not to insult JT).

[enlightenedbum]

I feel like Malcolm joins the relatively small list of people the show itself screwed over, I think it's just Jenny in Cook Islands and Michelle in Fiji.  Though at least there was discussion, so it's not quite as bad as those two.

[meep.meep]

That was something.  JT does it again.  I have to think that TPTB thought they'd get Sandra out.

This makes Michaela the strongest person on her tribe - time for her to shine.

That ray that Ozzie got was truly strange - green with blue polka dots?

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Malcolm isn't the only one cussing.  Dumbest twist since the outcast tribe.  And this show has had some pretty stupid twists. 

x20. 

Not to mention Peachy misspoke when he snuffed Malcolm's torch. 

The correct line should have been, "Malcolm - THEIR Tribe has spoken."

Possum balls.

[pamplemousse]

Those shrieks of rage and horror you may have heard in the distance were from my gf. She's a big Malcolm fan and she's livid. I'm not a happy camper either, I really liked the guy (and I don't like it when my gf is on the warpath). Mana, you all are dead in our Survivor-viewing household's eyes.

[Callaphera]

Okay, yes, yes, Tribal Council. Amazeballs, shocking, whatever.

How did I not notice last week that the second tribe to win immunity gets the fucking stand that the Pier One Imports decorative tchotchke sits on? Ooh, we accessorized with some rope. Isn't it special? Like, what, production couldn't spring for a pair of decorative flippers? An old timey oxygen tank? C'mon, guys!

[pamplemousse]

4 hours ago, mojoween said:

MOTHERFUCKER I posted too motherfucking soon I did not even know that fucking happened god fucking dammit.

I HATE BRAD AND I HATE SIERRA DON'T YOU EVER KISS HIM AGAIN HO.

Shut up Jeff this twist was BALLS.  You suck too.

This is the very first time in my entire Survivor watching life I want to give up I am so upset by this.  I'm going to vomit too.

Mojoween, have you actually been my gf posting on the PTV Survivor forums this entire time? Because I could swear this was almost, word for word, her exact reaction. Terrible result, it shouldn't have been him.

[Tsunami1981]

Wow, crazy TC. I get that JT was trying to vote out Sandra, but WTH? You trust Culpepper to do your bidding? Save another tribal mix-up, JT's fate is sealed. 

Really sorry to see Malcolm go...he was a fun player to have around. He's now been involved in two of the craziest TC's in Survivor history. Survivor: Caramoan - The Extra Immunity

I wouldn't mind Ozzy or Michaela winning. Maybe another of the remaining players will give me a reason to root for them.

[Superpole2000]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

She is the best player the game has had thus far with the best record... it's very simple... The way the game works, she is the best at it...  

Two games is not a big enough sample size, and there is way too much luck involved to declare her the best player regardless. Even tonight's vote was mostly luck on her part. She had no clue who was going. She even felt the need to run her mouth and get people to hate her just a little bit more, which surely isn't a great move.

Contestants just don't have THAT much influence over their fate in this game. Yes, they can do some things, but most often, they are at the mercy of what everyone else wants to do. If Sandra plays 100 seasons, she isn't going to win 100 times, and probably not even 10 times. I'd be shocked if she ever won again because her smug personality sucks, and people tend not to want to vote for that (there have been exceptions).

Results are not proof of skill. I'm not even sure what skill in this game is. Malcolm was likable, strategic, and physically fit, but those skills got him booted. Should he have shown up more out of shape? Should he have been an asshole to people? Should he have ignored every strategic thought and just played dumb with his tribe? That can't really be the recommended strategy, can it? Winning in this game is such a luck-driven event and so dependent on others that judging people based on wins and losses is ridiculous.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Superpole2000

[princelina]

1 hour ago, Fiftyninth said:

Stephen is one of my biggest Survivor crushes ever. And he's certainly aged better than JT (not to insult JT).

I love Stephen too - and I agree with you about the aging.  But that doesn't change how JT won the first time!  And I probably thought better of him then because Stephen made him look much better than he clearly is!  (game-wise)

[303420]

Hey man, Sandra is still there

How? Why? IDK. Freading Ninja, I tell you. 

[KimberStormer]

Well that was a fascinating scenario, and I really loved the thinking and strategizing, though the end result was disappointing both as gameplay and as TV for this Malcolm fan.  It was less interesting than it could have been, perhaps -- if the tribes had been more thoroughly shuffled, instead of the single odd-man-out on each tribe, it might have been really something.  Or if the two equal-sized tribes went together, especially with Troyzan the odd man out being the one with the idol there.  But still it was great, IMO, to see them trying to figure out what the other tribes would do, and what the odd men out would do, and how to deal with it.  I really liked Hali's thinking and gameplay, and I am once again here on my Exile Island, a tribe of one, because I liked JT's moves too.  I thought the odd men out were the standouts here and most others did pretty poorly and made bad mistakes; and what's worse, it was not, in fact, a "live tribal".  I think everyone voted for exactly whom they intended to vote for when they walked in, and played the idol on exactly who they planned to play the idol on, and all the entertainment of the walking and talking was pointless.  And that is boring.  Maybe I'll go through them all one by one and see how I feel.

Brad, I think, made a big mistake in voting out Malcolm.  He's hurt JT, who now has no allies on the other side, and pretty much eliminated him as an ally, while also voting out another potential ally in Malcolm.  I understand thinking Sandra is someone who can be dealt with later down the road but I think Malcolm was a poor choice for him and there were plenty of others he could have voted for.

Sierra, meh.  Malcolm is no loss for her, and she stays alive.  She hurt JT, who could have been a good ally, but she seems tied to the Brad train for now.  Debbie, same thing.

Tai, good job finding the idol, sharing it was IMO very obviously the right move here, the only move, in fact.  As usual he's pretty random and has no real idea what he's doing, but w/e.  All these guys, good for listening to JT and playing it on Sierra, even if (as I suspect) that was the plan from the get-go.

Hali, good all around.  Good before tribal, good at tribal.  She didn't sit down and shut up, kept trying to eliminate Brad (without getting blood on her hands, same as JT with Sandra) even after Jeff called it time to vote!  And if she makes it to merge with these folks, they certainly can't say she didn't warn them.

Sandra, bad job not listening to Hali and dismissing the possibility of an idol.  Aubry, even worse job thinking Hali was trying to fool you into voting Brad.  What on earth do they think Brad has to offer Hali that she would turn on them that way?

Malcolm, you should have seen things were going south and tried to get control of that tribal.  Hard to blame you for it.  Varner, Michaela, you had less information than Malcolm (because of JT) so less blame for you.

JT, I love how you think.  Good job trying to cover all your bases: either idol Sandra out, or if there's no idol, eliminate someone expendable, and either way without getting too much blood on your hands, and especially, avoiding the rock draw (which would have been much easier to avoid in any previous season, when he could have waited to see the first vote to decide what to do).  The only thing that screwed you over was Brad playing like a moron, but assuming people are not going to play like morons is IMO the only way to play.  If it had eliminated Sandra, you and Malcolm would probably have complete control over your tribe -- Varner and Michaela would likely go along to get along, and Aubry would be powerless alone. I love that you decided to get up and walk over to talk to the other tribe.  We've seen people whispering to the people next to them, but we've never seen such a thing before.  But what was keeping people in their seats?  Only custom, the invisible shackles of Society.  Awesome to break through that unspoken taboo barrier.  You, JT, remain one of my very favorite Survivors to watch.  Stephen has nothing on you.

5 hours ago, Dust Bunny said:

Screw you, JT. 

I really wanted Sandra to go tonight.

5 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

JT loves making dumbass moves, apparently he hasn't learned from his idiocy the last time he played. Why in the hell are they keeping Sandra in??

If you wanted Sandra to go home, you are on JT's side.  He didn't save her.  He tried to get her out.

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

My son said he thought JT told his tribe they should vote for Brad because he told Brad they were voting for Sierra. Did anyone hear this?  I was too confused to remember who said what to whom.

I think he said (maybe only to Malcolm?) that he told Brad they weren't voting for him.  If it was only to Malcolm, it was to keep him in the loop so he wouldn't feel surprised when the idol bounced on Sandra.

5 hours ago, mishap said:

I'm not really surprised Tai showed it to everyone, because Tai is not a good player, IMO,  but I am always dumbfounded when anyone who has an idol shows it to anyone else, ever.  I guess Tai is thinking of the team, but the team is a fleeting thing. They can switch them at the drop of a hat.  I know numbers matter in a merge, but still -- it's an individual game.   Keep that shit to yourself, for yourself. 

This is crazy IMO.  The only thing that could have saved his tribe was the idol.  People needed to know it was there, or why wouldn't they try to flip on each other to vote along with Sandra's team?  There's no way to plan this move without showing everyone the idol in the beginning.

5 hours ago, vb68 said:

I can't believe Hali didn't blab that he had it to the other tribe!

It's possible she didn't know, since she wasn't there when Tai showed it to everyone. 

3 hours ago, Trick Question said:

Three mistakes and two semi-mistakes by Sandra's team...

I love this analysis!

It's a total bummer that the forces of evil, one of my least favorite packs of Survivors ever, came out on top this episode, and eliminated my Survivor Boyfriend.  But I thought it was an interesting tribal idea. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by KimberStormer

[azshadowwalker]

2 hours ago, GaT said:

Then when Jeff was reading the votes & nothing came up for Sandra, I was surprised again, why didn't they vote Sandra off? She's more dangerous than Malcolm was.

Why would another tribe be worried about Sandra right now? They still have to compete as a tribe against Sandra's tribe. I adore her, but she's not a challenge threat. They took out a stronger challenge threat  (which is all they really have to worry about now), and can either let Sandra's tribe deal with her or get her after merge. Taking Sandra out now instead of someone like Malcolm, JT or Michaela would have been a really dumb move by Mana. 

[candall]

5 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I liked this show so much more before it was all about idols, advantages, twists, characters, and orchestrating epic TV moments.

Me, too.  I liked it when they were hungry.

Some of these people are professional Survivor contestants.

[navelgazer]

I can't believe Sandra walked out of TC still in the game.  JT/Malcolm had it out for her and it seemed like the important people on Mana had the same idea in mind and yet she's still in the game despite being wrong about a bunch of things, including the other team not having an idol.  

I don't find Sandra to be arrogant so much as having fun doing what she does, i.e., collecting different people for different reasons.  Everyone had the chance prior to filming to research her, watch her moves in her previous two wins, and yet we're in week 4 and there she sits.  I'm in genuine awe.  

I missed some years so I didn't get to see Culpepper's season.  I think I'm going to have to go back and watch the highlight reels to see why everybody here seems to hate him so much.  I like how cut he is.  I was also cheering when he helped his tribe come back and win 2nd in that reward challenge.  I didn't hear him say to Tai hey, don't worry, I'll take care of it, and then being laser on target throwing those bags.  I enjoyed that. 

[azshadowwalker]

1 hour ago, Superpole2000 said:

Winning in this game is such a luck-driven event and so dependent on others that judging people based on wins and losses is ridiculous.

The point of the game is to get to the end in such a way that people will still vote for you. Outlast is as important as outwit is as important as outplay. The only point is to win. The only way to judge is whether someone has accomplished the goal. Sandra has. Twice. And she didn't even need idols, like far too many people, or a game stacked in her favor, like Rob. 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, Trick Question said:

Three mistakes and two semi-mistakes by Sandra's team...

1. Not having more belief that an idol could be in play.
2. Not voting for Debbie (since if you're worried about an idol, you vote for the person least likely to have it, i.e. The Edgardo Strategy)
3. Not voting for Tai, along the same lines as #2.  He and Debbie aren't big-picture threats, but as long as someone is going home from that tribe, it's fine.
4. (semi) Not voting for Hali, and just cutting the cord as to whether you can trust her or not.
5 (semi). Not trying the REALLY advanced move and eliminating JT.  If they pull Hali aside and tell her to vote for JT, you'd think she would've been on board.  Malcolm wouldn't have been up for that plan, but they wouldn't actually have needed him.  It would've gone five votes JT (Hali, Varner, Sandra, Aubry, Michaela), four votes Malcolm (Debbie, Tai, Brad, Sierra), two votes Sierra (JT, Malcolm).

 

One mistake by Debbie's team...

1. Not eliminating Sandra when you have the chance.  Malcolm is a threat but you know how to beat him.  Sandra is still the John Wick of Survivor (who has now, btw, somehow made it through THREE TRIBAL COUNCILS WITH A SINGLE VOTE).

I agree with most of this except I don't think the other tribes should be concerned about Sandra at this point 

Voting off Malcolm was the smart move.  He is a big asset in tesm challenges and a threat in individual challenges.  Plus, he is much more likable than Sandra and hasn't won twice, so he would have been a much bigger threat with the jury.  

Leaving Sandra in the game weakens her tribe physically, socially and strategically.  She is a divisive force and not as trustworthy as Malcolm, so her pressence makes it far less likely that her tribe will go to the merge as a rock solid alliance. Her tribe should want her out, but the other 2 tribes should want her to stay.

What Sandra did in the past will hurt her, not help her as she is on everyone'sradar and nobody will want to give her a 3rd million.  She only won the 2nd time because of Russell Hantz.  The season SHE is the Russell Hantz.  

[mojoween]

Sandra doesn't REALLY care about Malcolm's ouster because he's not her so this won't affect her in any way, but I still hope when they got back to camp Michaela gave her worst face EVER and said "girl please?" and then walked away.

[Rachel RSL]

I'm not really sure why people are using this TC as an example of how bad Sandra's strategy is. Her strategy was the same strategy as her entire tribe, they had ALL discussed the vote beforehand and agreed on what to do. (As evidenced by how many times people said to stick to the original plan.) Yes, she made a whispered comment about the other tribe not having an idol when Michaela started to worry but it's obviously not something she or her tribe dismissed. They even said they had discussed beforehand the scenarios of every other person on the other tribe having an idol. 

Her name came up as a potential boot but not once did anyone say they wanted to get rid of her because she's mean or miserable or a bully. They wanted to boot her because she's so good at this game. Despite the fact that she is being edited to show only her mouthy moments, people who have played with her always say how nice and well-liked she is. If anything, I think the fact that everyone knows how dangerous she is yet she's made it through 3 TCs without a single vote is a testament to how good her strategy is.

[cooksdelight]

I want Sandra gone. Now. Running her mouth the way she did, saying "they don't have an idol over there".... I'll do a happy dance once I see Jeff snuff her torch.

Tai, you're an idiot. Never, ever tell anyone you have an idol. He's trying so hard to please, and when he couldn't think of "brain" as he said he wasn't playing with his heart this time. Dude, you don't have a brain, that's why you couldn't find it.

I felt bad for Malcolm(b), but he was stuck with a bunch of bozos letting Sandra run the show. SuperSecretSpyParatrooperPatrolOfficerCIA-Operative Debbie was right for once...they should have gotten rid of that woman when given the chance to vote for her.

JT is doomed now, he may have won once, but he's not winning again since he can't think strategically. And he's got Sandra on his case now, from the looks of it.

Jeff should have told everyone "Sit DOWN" and not let them talk. I can only imagine what might have happened if he had.

[JudyObscure]

I don't consent!  I like shows with only one challenge, so they have more time for things like camp life, arguing and strategizing.  Strategy done in muffled huddles at tribal is not fun to me. 

I don't consent to Malcolm going home and Sandra still being there, and I'm not even a particular Malcolm fan.

I don't consent to the show  casting pro-athletes to make players like Troyzan look like  idiots, when they're actually doing pretty well.

Tai needs to go back to playing with his heart because voting out his best friend last week and giving away his idol this week doesn't speak well for his brai..he..brai...head.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

If that comes to pass, she will have won 2 out of 3 times. What a failure. We need more Great Players who have to have 4 chances in order to win once or who make multiple FTC only to lose them all. People who win 2 out of 3 times are a dime a dozen...

I never called her a failure.  She has been extremely successful on the show.  

I was merely debunking your illogical assertion that because she won twice before, she will win again this time.  The two prior wins are a huge liability for her this season.

This is not a game, like tennis, where a superior player can simply dominate her opponents.  This is especially true of a weak challenge player.  Each player's game is almost entirely in the hands of other people.  

 It is also very situational.  The same characteristics and strategies that work great in one season can sink you in another.  

[Bryce Lynch]

11 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't consent!  I like shows with only one challenge, so they have more time for things like camp life, arguing and strategizing.  Strategy done in muffled huddles at tribal is not fun to me. 

I don't consent to Malcolm going home and Sandra still being there, and I'm not even a particular Malcolm fan.

I don't consent to the show  casting pro-athletes to make players like Troyzan look like  idiots, when they're actually doing pretty well.

Tai needs to go back to playing with his heart because voting out his best friend last week and giving away his idol this week doesn't speak well for his brai..he..brai...head.

I actually like more challenges.  The strategizing and deceptive editing of it gets tedious to me after a certain point.

I wanted Malcolm to stay and either Brad or Sandra to go home, but it was the smart move for Mana, so I can't knock them for it.

I have no problem with pro athletes.  Should they not cast really smart people because they will make the dumb jocks look stupid?

It was debatable whether Tai should have shared the idol, though most seem to be treating it like it was a no brainer. It was good for him to keep his tribe's numbers up, as we head towards the merge.  However, with the early tribe swap, the quality and experience of the players and the fact that Tai is a notorious flipper, I am not so sure how important tribal numbers will be going into the merge, especially for Tai.

[JudyObscure]

22 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I have no problem with pro athletes.  Should they not cast really smart people because they will make the dumb jocks look stupid?

Not the same.  This is supposed to be a show about random ordinary people, set down on an island together.  They may be smart or good at athletics like Malcomb, but not professional.  Culpepper and his like can come out to play on "Celebrity Survivor," which I wont be watching.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, green said:

And I STILL have no memory of this guy JT ever having been on my TV screen before. 

The only thing I remember of him was that he was cute but not so smart.  He needed the much craftier Stephen to get them both to the end.  (I didn't watch Heroes v Villains, the only season I missed.)

I can't stand either Brad or Sandra, they are both arrogant jerks, but they are both playing the game really well.  At this point if either gets to the end I'd vote for them-- Sandra, just for the fact she could manipulate her tribe 3 times (twice with returnees who should know better), and Brad because he's taken control without alienating anyone (much).  His performance in the IC was amazing.  (I have no problem with retired athletes playing Survivor.)  Sandra's team was stupid not to take Brad out.

I like Malcolm far more than either Brad or Sandra, but it is never a bad idea to remove a physical and social threat, especially if he's on the other team.  However, I hope there is another shake up coming soon.  These "game changers" have to be kept on their toes with actual game changes so they don't become complacent.  That's why I liked the concept of this TC.  It really threw everyone off balance!

Edited March 23, 2017 by Haleth

[mojoween]

54 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't consent to the show  casting pro-athletes to make players like Troyzan look like  idiots, when they're actually doing pretty well.

If I could make this quote into a house I would live in it.

I would be more specific in that I don't consent to the show casting Brad Culpepper.  If Eli Manning were out there putting on a smokeshow I would be all about it.

[Sugar]

I really don't have a problem with Brad calling Hali 'blue eyes'. It's possible to use a nickname as a sign of affection or friendship - it doesn't necessarily imply sexism. I call my male colleagues all kinds of nicknames and other female workers do as well, so that in itself doesn't make him a douche. Last week's TC he was complimentary to her, so I'm not seeing the blatantly sexist attitude others are. He obviously knows her name.
I just don't really have a problem with him - not sure why he inspires so much ire based on what we've seen here and BvW.

I'm sorry to see Malcolm go, but I loved this TC and was grinning like an idiot throughout. I'm a sucker for drama, and the show brought it, so I can't hate Jeff for letting it unfold. It DID make for good TV. I've been watching since the first season, and I generally fall into the camp of loving 'old school' survivor where it was just about watching people interact, form relationships, problem solve, etc. - the social experiment. Now, it really is like the Michael Bay produced version of Survivor with the constant one-upping and BIGGEST, BADDEST, MOST AMAZING MOVE EVER, but damn if it isn't entertaining.

[penbrat]

That was fun.  Sorry that Malcolm had to go instead of Sandra, who I find smug and entitled and cannot stand, but that was fun nonetheless.   I laughed out loud during Malcolm's final remarks when he said something about JT being off his Christmas card list.

And UO here but I like Brad and the game he is playing so far.   (But of course it may all come back to bite him in the butt - we shall see)  I was no fan of Michaela at all on her first season but I am starting to warm to her a bit this season.  If she can keep cool she may go far this season