S01.E05: Once Bitten

[BeatrixK]

25 minutes ago, Lana X said:

I dont understand how amabella keeps having issues with a classmates like biting and nobody else sees it. that is baffling to me!

THANK YOU!  This seems like the most obvious WTF? portion -- you have a kid who the school, parents, and administrators all seem to agree she's been the target of bullying.....but allow her enough 'unsupervised' time that she can get bitten -- hard enough to break the skin?!?!?  It seems like that kid should have a shadow in the shape of the teacher following her at all times -- if nothing more than to protect the school's butt for liability issues down the road.

 

As for Kidman -- BRAVO, GIRRLLLLL....BRAVO.  her portrayal of an abuse victim is far more on point.  I am getting to a year out of an abusive relationship (mine was mental and emotional -- different but equal in terms of long-lasting damage.) -- and I can tell you the denial, the inexplicable refusal to recognize it, let alone call it what it is, is frighteningly real.  I am a college educated, IT-career industry 20+ year professional....and I think of the idiotic things I put up with that slowly, incrementally tore at me...and the ways I would defend his indefensible behavior.  It's a HUGE hill to climb to admit to yourself what is happening to you, because it does feel like 'I'm too smart to allow this to happen, so.'...yet each time, you find a way to rationalize it to yourself by saying it's how YOU are misinterpreting it, how YOU egged it on...a skilled abuser knows how to make you turn it on yourself.  Kidman is playing a woman who was an accomplished attorney, has a pretty outwardly-appearing perfect life -- you think the stuff that happens to abuse victims happens in trailer parks and on COPS -- not in your lovely home with your upper-middle class spectrum folks....you are the only one who 'understands' the stress behind your 'troubled' spouse, and that he 'doesn't mean it -- not like those drunks in trailers do when they abuse their wives.'  The rationalizations you will come to in order to avoid confronting that leaving your abuser is terrifying on multiple fronts are truly mind-blowing, and she is just handling that maze of emotional with Streep-level skill.

Kidman is doing an absolute MASTERFUL job portraying the realities of what the self-denial and the mounting evidence against what you're denying to yourself and how those force things to the surface, no matter how hard you try to push them down and pretend all is normal in domestic hell.

[Jezebel97]

11 hours ago, susannot said:

The actress playing the therapist was also excellent.  I can see some acting awards given to this show.

she is the wonderful Robin Weigert, my first time watching her was when she played Calamity Jane in Deadwood

[teddysmom]

Quote

Kidman is doing an absolute MASTERFUL job portraying the realities of what the self-denial and the mounting evidence against what you're denying to yourself and how those force things to the surface, no matter how hard you try to push them down and pretend all is normal in domestic hell.

Yes she definitely got the trickiest role and is giving a master class in acting.   I have a friend who is trying to get up the nerve to get out of a loveless marriage, no abuse or anything, just realization her husband has no desire to be a father to her daughter , or a husband. He only wants to work come home late and get drunk.  She blames herself for him being a drunk. 

She's watching BLL and I'm terrified she's seeing Celeste hanging onto her marriage and thinking, well at least I don't have it this bad. 

I do wonder if Kidman is drawing on her marriage to Cruise. Not that he hit her, but considering why she & Katie left him, I can see that it would be very tricky to get out of that entanglement.  And I'm sure there had to be a long while where she denied all that Scientology insanity. 

[Juliegirlj]

11 hours ago, Kell said:

Right, was just going to say a lot of techies and designers use them.  Wish I had one at work, actually.

My husband's company manufactures and sells adjustable height tables-they call them UP tables. They are becoming very popular in offices! 

[Giesela]

I am a little conflicted by the Renata character.  On the one hand Renata is a fought her way to the top high power CEO who I'm sure is very used to taking charge, being in charge, brooking no argument, making decisions and no self-doubt etc.  So that part reads true.  But along with that history and personality is some self-control, a calm matter of fact demeanor, usually someone people like at least a little bit.  So in that respect yes I think Renata is being overplayed. I can see her throwing her weight around, I can see her pressuring the school about Ziggy but not like some loud powerless street walker.  I don't lay this at the actors feat though, more the writers and director who dare I say are probably male?  Is this the way they view women?  Hysterical? 

I have always liked Kidman and am not surprised be her here.  I think the portrayal of domestic violence and all its complexities has been very good.  

I am sort of angry about Jane.  Her character is making me feel dispassionate, unempathetic about a sexual assault victim something I thought was impossible. This character arc is not doing much for exploring that crime and exploring all the gray lines.  Not that its the job of the show to explore but.  So many women have experienced something close to and it can get very ambiguous.  Many women are walking around with something similar in their past.   Maybe this is why they seem to assume that we will all understand that she  has conflicting emotions about having Ziggy, keeping a gun, even tracking down her assaulter(??).  How is it that I feel she is overreacting?  I can't believe I feel this unsympathetic as I am a dyed in the wool feminist pro woman etc.!  Something about her character just comes across as really irritating to me.  She seems to be focused on finding her abuser, which is pretty proactive,  and her memories instead of fighting for Ziggy at school.    IDK it seems uneven and being given short shrift especially since I would rather see more time on this than Maddy's affair, car crash and running on the beach.  At first I blamed the wooden acting but when I think about it I think its the writing.  Or at least both.  

Don't understand why people like Ed.  I'm not on the Abigal boat but I still think he is a bit of a zero.  And I hate big beards anyway.  

Biting is pretty common at that age, more common than choking for sure.  Although that seemed like quite a bite.  Has Amabelle said more than 15 words in the show?  Liked people's take on her mother actually coming across like a bully herself.  

Edited March 20, 2017 by Giesela

[Ina123]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think it was also telling that at the beginning of that scene (before Perry did his monster voice and chased them), they weren't eating dinner and they weren't listening when Celeste told them to eat, but as soon as Perry told them, they shut up, put down their toys, sat in their chairs,and started eating.

Just like my house growing up, but my dad wasn't an abuser. He was just firm in discipline. My mom just was a lousy disciplinarian and rarely raised her voice but we knew when dad spoke we better listen. A lot of people who grew up in two parent/ stay-at-home mom homes heard mom say, "Wait til you dad comes home."

[QuinnM]

So is the murder that someone was thrown off that cliff that Madeline stopped at in her nightmare?  We see the police looking at all kinds of footprints.  And the footprints look like a lot of sneakers. 

Also the look on Renata's face as she's attacking Jane and Jane just stands there mute and hands her a tissue.  Really I don't know if that was deliberate but it was masterful move.

[susannot]

I wonder if Saxton Baker or Banks (or whatever his name is) is Perry's alias for his out-of-town rape activities.

[teddysmom]

Quote

my dad wasn't an abuser. He was just firm in discipline. 

Agree. Kids know which parent they can fuck with and which parent they better listen to. And a lot of the time it's not what you say, it's how you say it.  

I have a pet sitting business and some of my clients can't get their dogs to do something and are amazed when I tell them one time or just don't let them get away with bad behavior, and they mind me.     I tell them "use your I'm not f-ing around voice.  And don't reward bad behavior. "

Edited March 20, 2017 by teddysmom

[Juliegirlj]

It certainly seems like the twins are the ones hurting Annabelle, but, I can't get it out of my head that she is intimidated by Chloe. She could be afraid to tell on Chloe because all the kids love her. 

Could Joseph be the one that dies by Maddie's hand? To protect her intact family? I have a feeling he is not going to drop things with her and she wants it to all go away. 

I think Ed may realize that Maddie's daughter knows about her mom's affair-that is what those looks are about. 

I wanted to see the interior designer's shoes!! 

Loved the therapist- if only all therapists were that insightful and skilled !! 

[fakeempress]

18 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I do wonder if Kidman is drawing on her marriage to Cruise. Not that he hit her, but considering why she & Katie left him, I can see that it would be very tricky to get out of that entanglement.  And I'm sure there had to be a long while where she denied all that Scientology insanity. 

Not to take away from Kidman's performance but you can't help wondering.

I also very much enjoy Reese Witherspoon in this. It's a very Reese role but she's excellent at humanizing and giving shades to what appeared in the beginning to be a more cliche character. I can't say the same about Laura Dern in this episode (haven't read the book so don't know if she plays it so broadly on purpose or defaults to her mannerisms). 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Just to add a little levity: I am reading these posts about Celeste's session, Ziggy's father, Jane's traumatic experience, and I keep thinking of that Saturday Night Live Jeopardy sketch where Darrell Hammond as Sean Connory misreads one of the categories. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by hoodooznoodooz

[Cranky One]

11 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Nicole Kidman doesn't usually impress me either. But she's brilliant when she plays the villain. Check out "To Die For" and even "Paddington"!

Loved her in "To Die For"! One movie that I will watch over and over again!

Nothing to add that hasn't already been said, but I cracked up after Maddy was texting with Celeste (not sure because I couldn't see what was on the screen, but I think it was about their kitchen counter sex..ew) and Maddy wants to do the same and Ed says something like, "Stay away from the downstairs bathroom!" and kills the mood! I wonder if that was ad-libbed.

I'm really enjoying this series. I know it's based on a book, which I plan on reading after the series is over, but I'd be happy if they continued the series.

[annlaw78]

27 minutes ago, Giesela said:

I am sort of angry about Jane.  Her character is making me feel dispassionate, unempathetic about a sexual assault victim something I thought was impossible. This character arc is not doing much for exploring that crime and exploring all the gray lines.  Not that its the job of the show to explore but.  So many women have experienced something close to and it can get very ambiguous.  Many women are walking around with something similar in their past.   Maybe this is why they seem to assume that we will all understand that she  has conflicting emotions about having Ziggy, keeping a gun, even tracking down her assaulter(??).  How is it that I feel she is overreacting?  I can't believe I feel this unsympathetic as I am a dyed in the wool feminist pro woman etc.!  Something about her character just comes across as really irritating to me.    IDK it seems uneven and being given short shrift especially since I would rather see more time on this than Maddy's affair, car crash and running on the beach.  At first I blamed the wooden acting but when I think about it I think its the writing.  Or at least both.  

I just don't buy that she's part of the Madeline-Celeste crowd.  I also don't get how she supports herself -- all we ever see her do is jog and hang out with Madeline.  I agree that her character could be a lot more compelling than it is -- as it is, I find her (repetitive) scenes of flashbacks/fantasy shootings and general ineffectualness rather blah.

[NutMeg]

What surprised me the most was that when Celeste wasn't heard by the twins, she said "Perry", and he took over. Which is very weird as she is the parent the twins interact the most with, she should be the one having rules in place for them 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I just don't buy that she's part of the Madeline-Celeste crowd.  I also don't get how she supports herself -- all we ever see her do is jog and hang out with Madeline.  I agree that her character could be a lot more compelling than it is -- as it is, I find her (repetitive) scenes of flashbacks/fantasy shootings and general ineffectualness rather blah.

I think in the first or second episode, she said she does bookkeeping work or maybe some kind of accounting work, from home for various clients.   

Quote

Biting is pretty common at that age, more common than choking for sure.

 

I agree that biting can be common.  Though I think the bite on Amabelle (God, that name) was well beyond anything normal for a kid. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

1 hour ago, BeatrixK said:

THANK YOU!  This seems like the most obvious WTF? portion -- you have a kid who the school, parents, and administrators all seem to agree she's been the target of bullying.....but allow her enough 'unsupervised' time that she can get bitten -- hard enough to break the skin?!?!?  It seems like that kid should have a shadow in the shape of the teacher following her at all times -- if nothing more than to protect the school's butt for liability issues down the road.

 

As for Kidman -- BRAVO, GIRRLLLLL....BRAVO.  her portrayal of an abuse victim is far more on point.  I am getting to a year out of an abusive relationship (mine was mental and emotional -- different but equal in terms of long-lasting damage.) -- and I can tell you the denial, the inexplicable refusal to recognize it, let alone call it what it is, is frighteningly real.  I am a college educated, IT-career industry 20+ year professional....and I think of the idiotic things I put up with that slowly, incrementally tore at me...and the ways I would defend his indefensible behavior.  It's a HUGE hill to climb to admit to yourself what is happening to you, because it does feel like 'I'm too smart to allow this to happen, so.'...yet each time, you find a way to rationalize it to yourself by saying it's how YOU are misinterpreting it, how YOU egged it on...a skilled abuser knows how to make you turn it on yourself.  Kidman is playing a woman who was an accomplished attorney, has a pretty outwardly-appearing perfect life -- you think the stuff that happens to abuse victims happens in trailer parks and on COPS -- not in your lovely home with your upper-middle class spectrum folks....you are the only one who 'understands' the stress behind your 'troubled' spouse, and that he 'doesn't mean it -- not like those drunks in trailers do when they abuse their wives.'  The rationalizations you will come to in order to avoid confronting that leaving your abuser is terrifying on multiple fronts are truly mind-blowing, and she is just handling that maze of emotional with Streep-level skill.

Kidman is doing an absolute MASTERFUL job portraying the realities of what the self-denial and the mounting evidence against what you're denying to yourself and how those force things to the surface, no matter how hard you try to push them down and pretend all is normal in domestic hell.

I wonder how much Nicole Kidman is drawing from her marriage to Tom Cruise/Scientology/Miscavige. The control, denial, attraction, yet anxiety.

Edited March 20, 2017 by hoodooznoodooz

[ElectricBoogaloo]

22 minutes ago, annlaw78 said:

I just don't buy that she's part of the Madeline-Celeste crowd.  I also don't get how she supports herself -- all we ever see her do is jog and hang out with Madeline.  I agree that her character could be a lot more compelling than it is -- as it is, I find her (repetitive) scenes of flashbacks/fantasy shootings and general ineffectualness rather blah.

Bookkeeping from home doesn't require set hours, which is why it's a great job for a single mom like Jane. She has several hours during the day to do that work while Ziggy is at school and then a few more hours at night after he's in bed. But bookkeeping doesn't make for riveting television which is probably why we don't see her doing it onscreen.

[Keepitmoving]

12 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Renata, stop bullying your daughter while you are trying to coax her into revealing who the bully is.

This occurred to me as well watching that scene and Renata making it all about her and her feelings.

As a matter a fact, I wonder if she's the one biting her kid?

And how in the hell is no one seeing this abuse? How on earth? They would have caught this by now in the most mediocre of public schools. Isn't this a private school? Or is it just and excellent public school because of the zip code?

By the way, what does Jane do for a living?

Edited March 20, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[hoodooznoodooz]

22 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

What surprised me the most was that when Celeste wasn't heard by the twins, she said "Perry", and he took over. Which is very weird as she is the parent the twins interact the most with, she should be the one having rules in place for them 

Yeah, this bugged me, too. In maybe the first episide also, she cannot get them to stop playing and get in the car to go to school for orientation, I think.  She pleads with Perry to help her. He offers a dollar to whoever gets in the car first.  In my opinion, she's basically suggesting to the twins that it's okay to only take the dad seriously.

[Kenz]

Nicole Kidman is perfect in this role. She is riveting, especially in the therapist sessions. She also looks better than I've seen her in years. I'm so glad that she gave up on the big poufy lip look. She looks so delicate and young with her natural mouth. It's hard to believe that she's almost 50. Did you watch her in the scene where three of them were running? She even runs with perfect posture and in a regal way. 

[anniebird]

2 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Isn't this a private school? Or is it just and excellent public school because of the zip code?

It's a public school.

[QuinnM]

Quote

No maybe not, because how is Jane affording to send her kid there? By the way, what does Jane do for a living?

This is a public school.  There are these schools around the country.  In my area a town house  that is in school district A will rent for twice what the same unit in the same development rents for a block away.  Jane has said that she has some clients that she still works for from Santa Cruz.  Whe said that to the coffee shop dude when she and Ziggy were buying a donut.  So does she have a lot of money?  Doesn't seem so.  Does she have enough to meat rent and groceries?  Seems so.

[Carolina Girl]

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

*raises hand*  I actually have a computer that goes up and down.  I prefer to sit when I'm typing but I like the option of standing when I read.  I get anxious sitting for long periods at a time.

Same here - my office has desk tops that raise and lower to allow us to stand and work.  I try to stand at my desk as much as possible.  And at 63, that's not so easy to do...,.

[Giesela]

7 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

And how in the hell is no one seeing this abuse? How on earth? They would have caught this by now in the most mediocre of public schools. Isn't this a private school? Or is it just and excellent public school because of the zip code?

 

Spoiler

In the book they remark on the grounds of the school that has lots of nook and separate little areas created by bushes.  The idea being that the children can run off into areas that aren't in sight of teachers.  Personally I found that an uneralistic book construct since most playgrounds are purposefully designed exactly so teachers can always keep an eye on everyone.  IDK, is Australia that much different?  

Not really a spoiler but an explanation from the book. 

[annlaw78]

29 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

What surprised me the most was that when Celeste wasn't heard by the twins, she said "Perry", and he took over. Which is very weird as she is the parent the twins interact the most with, she should be the one having rules in place for them 

I think that's just part of their dynamic -- she is gratified to a degree by his dominance.  The degree is the problem.  She also has a nanny, so she's not necessarily spending a lot more time with them. 

[Giesela]

15 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

This is a public school.  There are these schools around the country.  In my area a town house  that is in school district A will rent for twice what the same unit in the same development rents for a block away.  Jane has said that she has some clients that she still works for from Santa Cruz.  Whe said that to the coffee shop dude when she and Ziggy were buying a donut.  So does she have a lot of money?  Doesn't seem so.  Does she have enough to meat rent and groceries?  Seems so.

Exactly!  How the hell does a work from home book keeper afford an apt of any kind in Monterrey?  I've never lived in California so I checked Zillow.  There seem to be reasonable rents 100 miles inland but there isn't even any rentals on the coast.  Not that there aren't any but not on Zillow so I can't tell.  I am assuming they would be expensive.  (Why can't I remember how to spell Monterray, Monterrey, Monter....whatever)

Edited March 20, 2017 by Giesela

[lovinbob]

I'm not a huge fan of the Jane character but I think Woodley's portrayal is a pretty good rendition of the book's Jane character. Not a spoiler but from the book, so hidden.

Spoiler

In the book, Jane was not 100% likable. She was very thin, plain (I think) and very reserved and guarded. She was always chewing gum. She was not comfortable in her skin. If anything Woodley's Jane is a little too relaxed and at home with Maddie and Celeste. But I think Woodley's flat affect is to portray this guarded aspect of the character. 

[pbutler111]

I don't think the theory about Perry being Saxon is "harebrained" at all. They're doing a subtle job of it, but they're constantly teasing Jane almost seeing Perry, but not quite. The most recent, and bold, tease was Celeste and Jane FaceTiming with Perry and the boys just in the other room, heard but not seen, but with the possibility existing of Perry walking in at any moment. And, I, assuming Ziggy and the twins share the same violently abusive father, perhaps the twins are the one harassing Amabella. Celeste tells the therapist that the boys never see what goes on between her and Perry, but they may have seen more than she knows, and are acting it out with Amabella. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Perry turns out to be both the rapist and our mystery murder victim, with Celeste as the killer. At the point, I could believe just about any theory! Very juicy!

[vibeology]

5 minutes ago, annlaw78 said:

I think that's just part of their dynamic -- she is gratified to a degree by his dominance.  The degree is the problem.  She also has a nanny, so she's not necessarily spending a lot more time with them. 

Does she? I know Renata does but I don't remember seeing a Nanny and I have a hard time believing that Perry would let someone else into their house that frequently considering his abuse and need to control.

Speaking of nannies, where is Renata's nanny and why is Renata doing daily drop-off/pick-up? What exactly does this nanny do if she isn't there before Amabella goes to school and there when she's done for the day? Renata showing up at the school because Amabella has been bitten makes perfect sense. Renata showing up for a pick-up in the middle of the day when she's supposed to work as much as the show has claimed, I don't buy it. Plus, if Amabella has a nanny she's close to, maybe that would be a way to get Amabella talking.

As for Jane's very self-destructive streak this episode, I assumed that came from first the anxiety and danger of meeting Saxon and then from the anger and disappointment at what I assumed was her discovering that he wasn't the one. I don't really get it, but I've also never been in her shoes. The show has done such a deft job with the other women's emotions that I trust there is a clear plan here too.

[annlaw78]

47 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Bookkeeping from home doesn't require set hours, which is why it's a great job for a single mom like Jane. She has several hours during the day to do that work while Ziggy is at school and then a few more hours at night after he's in bed. But bookkeeping doesn't make for riveting television which is probably why we don't see her doing it onscreen.

Agree it's not riveting, and this is not a workplace-based show.  I just wouldn't expect her to be able to swan around with M & C as much as she does, given she's the breadwinner in a high cost-of-living town.  I find that to be a bit unrealistic.  But, that's the disbelief I must suspend, as that's the story the show is telling!

 

(Why can't I remember how to spell Monterray, Monterrey, Monter....whatever)

Re: spelling Monterrey/Monterey, it's spelled one way for the town in Mexico, the other way in California, I think.

Edited March 20, 2017 by annlaw78

[mochamajesty]

1 hour ago, annlaw78 said:

I just don't buy that she's part of the Madeline-Celeste crowd.  I also don't get how she supports herself -- all we ever see her do is jog and hang out with Madeline.  I agree that her character could be a lot more compelling than it is -- as it is, I find her (repetitive) scenes of flashbacks/fantasy shootings and general ineffectualness rather blah.

She is low(er) class than the rest of the ladies, yes.  That was made clearer in episode one.

20 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

I don't think the theory about Perry being Saxon is "harebrained" at all. They're doing a subtle job of it, but they're constantly teasing Jane almost seeing Perry, but not quite. The most recent, and bold, tease was Celeste and Jane FaceTiming with Perry and the boys just in the other room, heard but not seen, but with the possibility existing of Perry walking in at any moment. And, I, assuming Ziggy and the twins share the same violently abusive father, perhaps the twins are the one harassing Amabella. Celeste tells the therapist that the boys never see what goes on between her and Perry, but they may have seen more than she knows, and are acting it out with Amabella. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Perry turns out to be both the rapist and our mystery murder victim, with Celeste as the killer. At the point, I could believe just about any theory! Very juicy!

Yes.

Just because Saxon Banks is a real person does not mean that Perry did not rape her.

Just as Madeline saw his picture and name online, Perry could have done the same. Or met him through work (do we know what Perry does?).  Or the gym. Or tennis. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by mochamajesty

[annlaw78]

Quote

Does she? I know Renata does but I don't remember seeing a Nanny and I have a hard time believing that Perry would let someone else into their house that frequently considering his abuse and need to control.

Yes, she does.  She was there when C and M met up for drinks one evening and gushed over Perry's sorry-about-the-closet roses.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

22 minutes ago, vibeology said:

Does she? I know Renata does but I don't remember seeing a Nanny and I have a hard time believing that Perry would let someone else into their house that frequently considering his abuse and need to control.

Speaking of nannies, where is Renata's nanny and why is Renata doing daily drop-off/pick-up? What exactly does this nanny do if she isn't there before Amabella goes to school and there when she's done for the day? Renata showing up at the school because Amabella has been bitten makes perfect sense. Renata showing up for a pick-up in the middle of the day when she's supposed to work as much as the show has claimed, I don't buy it. Plus, if Amabella has a nanny she's close to, maybe that would be a way to get Amabella talking.

Yes, Celeste has a nanny for the twins. In one of the earlier episodes, Madeline calls Celeste and asks if the nanny is with the boys. Celeste says yes so Madeline says, "Good, that means you can meet me for a drink." When Celeste gets home from drinks with Madeline, there are flowers on the table from Perry and the nanny makes a comment about how night time delivery is more expensive. I would guess that Perry encouraged Celeste to hire a nanny to make being at home as easy as possible so that she wouldn't be tempted to go back to work.

I buy Renata dropping Amabella off in the morning because she is one of those moms who loves reminding the other moms that she has a job but she still has time to take her kid to school, passive aggressively telling the working moms who don't drop off their kids don't love them enough to make the time and telling the stay at home moms that they are too lazy and undisciplined to have a job AND be a mom. I'm guessing since she and Gordon are high up in the company, they have more flexibility with their schedules so Renata probably leaves work early at least two or three days a week so she can pick Amabella up from school. That still leaves half the week for Amabella's nanny to teach her French after school before Renata gets home.

15 minutes ago, annlaw78 said:

Agree it's not riveting, and this is not a workplace-based show.  I just wouldn't expect her to be able to swan around with M & C as much as she does, given she's the breadwinner in a high cost-of-living town.  I find that to be a bit unrealistic.  But, that's the disbelief I must suspend, as that's the story the show is telling!

I think they've done a decent job showing that Jane doesn't make as much money and not doing fancy stuff. The only extraneous expense we've seen from her is meeting Madeline and Celeste at the cafe, and at places like that you can get away with just ordering coffee or tea.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

You know what else I'd like to see dialed back?  Laura Dern's acting.  Never a big fan, but all her arm flailing and "look at me! I'm emoting anger" isn't working for me.  The Renata character should be outraged and angry and concerned (I would be in same situation), but Dern's acting seems over the top IMO.

ICAM, not to mention her apparently wanting to make sure we all noticed her thigh gap.  (Okay, maybe some projection on my part but the staging of that scene seemed excessive to me. ?)

Also agreeing with comments upthread, I've never been much of a Nicole Kidman fan but think she is killing it in this role. She'll get an Emmy nomination for sure.

[scrb]

Celeste didn't carry out her threat to leave him if he hit her again.

Instead, she stays while he escalates the violence and she's covering it up to the hilt.  Not just hiding the bruises but denying to the therapist and then trying to hold up normalcy for the twins by taking them to pick up the wife batterer.

[MerBearHou]

3 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Just to add a little levity: I am reading these posts about Celeste's session, Ziggy's father, Jane's traumatic experience, and I keep thinking of that Saturday Night Live Jeopardy sketch where Darrell Hammond as Sean Connory misreads one of the categories. 

More than once, I have thought the exact same thing!  I can just hear Sean's voice in that skit saying the category wrong and it makes me chuckle every time, even though the subject is so very serious. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by MerBearHou

[Razzberry]

Jane said she'd recognize his voice, so I guess it just didn't occur to her to, you know, call him first on some pretext?   It could have saved her a trip and a potentially ugly incident.  

 

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, Giesela said:

I am sort of angry about Jane.  Her character is making me feel dispassionate, unempathetic about a sexual assault victim something I thought was impossible.

I'm really perplexed by Jane because, I can't quite tell if all her horrible behavior is supposed to be PTSD from the rape or just the actress being too wooden. On one hand, I feel like they are trying to show her spiraling out of control, but I just don't quite see it. I think she's maybe supposed to be numb? But something just seems off. I did crack up though when she sniffed the architect. I can't imagine what must have been going through his head when he turned and saw here a little too close and clearly sniffing him. lol

I found some of the fantasy/flashback stuff really distracting this episode in a way it hasn't been before now. But the whole therapy session, with flashes slowly showing what really went down after the toy incident was brilliant. I desperately want Celeste to get the hell out of there, and I can see that there are times when she almost seems like she wants to, but then he pulls her back in. Perry is a master manipulator and I also get why she stays. Just brilliant. Scary. And I am so impressed by how well they are causing me to feel tense in any scene with Perry and Celeste alone together. The danger she is in is palpable.

I think they both have issues that go far beyond their marriage. And did they telegraphed Perry as Jane's rapist with her imaging saying her rapist was into erotic asphyxiation and then showing Perry with his hand around Celeste's neck as he fucked her? He is basically living out his rape fantasies on his wife every day. *chills*

[teddysmom]

I know it's not me because I have to turn down volume on Netflix and other shows but does anyone else have trouble hearing dialogue on BLL?

I had to turn on CC again. Did they spend so much $ on the music licensing fees that they didn't hire decent sound crew? 

[Emme]

Here's an interesting interview with Robin Weigert on her role as Dr. Reisman (therapist):

http://www.vulture.com/2017/03/big-little-lies-robin-weigert-therapy.html

I think the therapy scenes have been brilliant.

[CofCinci]

Isn't it a little too obvious for Perry to be the rapist?  That's no surprise.  No HBO finale twist. 

[Auntie Anxiety]

2 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I agree that biting can be common.  Though I think the bite on Amabelle (God, that name) was well beyond anything normal for a kid. 

I was so confused when they showed a just a frame of some young kids kneeling over a dead squirrel(?). I thought that maybe Amabella had been bitten by a rabid rodent! Those flashbacks/montages makes it difficult for me to decipher what the hell is imagined and what is "real."

18 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

And did they telegraphed Perry as Jane's rapist with her imaging saying her rapist was into erotic asphyxiation and then showing Perry with his hand around Celeste's neck as he fucked her? He is basically living out his rape fantasies on his wife every day. *chills*

Yeah, I was wondering about the comment Dr. Calamity Jane (hehe) when Celeste called their sexual encounters "lovemaking." Dr. CJ said that at least Celeste refers to it as "lovemaking" and that is a positive, but lovemaking as opposed to what? Rape? Because I find the sex between them isn't really sex at all because it is fueled by rage and violence. YMMV

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

I think they both have issues that go far beyond their marriage. And did they telegraphed Perry as Jane's rapist with her imaging saying her rapist was into erotic asphyxiation and then showing Perry with his hand around Celeste's neck as he fucked her? He is basically living out his rape fantasies on his wife every day. *chills*

And when the interior decorator turned around and she was following him in slow motion to his office imagining him in his suit from that night, I thought to myself that he looked like Perry from the back. 

Jane hasn't met Perry right? She hasn't laid eyes on him right? I think I've only seen Maddie in his presence while visiting Celeste.

[MaryWebGirl]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think they've done a decent job showing that Jane doesn't make as much money and not doing fancy stuff. The only extraneous expense we've seen from her is meeting Madeline and Celeste at the cafe, and at places like that you can get away with just ordering coffee or tea.

I agree that they've done OK showing that Jane doesn't have the kind of money everyone else does until last night when she had a crapton of joints! Although I suppose I could fanwank that she does the books for a grow-op or dispensary and they pay her in product.

Am I crazy or did we see that Celeste, Jane and maybe Perry are not the murder victims? We seemed to see a flash forward to the chaos after the murder and we saw those three, although I suppose on this show you can never know what's real and what's just in someone's mind.

[GinnyMars]

14 hours ago, Kell said:

RE:  Amabelle's abuser -- I've even gone so far as to wonder about that teacher - I mean, she sure does seem to miss a lot of violence going on in her classroom!

There was one odd shot, at first I thought it was directing our attention to Amabella's feet/unsteadiness, but upon replaying it, I wondered if it had more to do with showing us the teacher's shoes. From the waist up, I had always found her pretty unassuming; bland, even. The shoes and toes tell a different story. Dominatrix vibes?

Edited March 20, 2017 by GinnyMars

[riverheightsnancy]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

This occurred to me as well watching that scene and Renata making it all about her and her feelings.

As a matter a fact, I wonder if she's the one biting her kid?

And how in the hell is no one seeing this abuse? How on earth? They would have caught this by now in the most mediocre of public schools. Isn't this a private school? Or is it just and excellent public school because of the zip code?

By the way, what does Jane do for a living?

I have not read the book, but it would be a real twist if the "bully" is Renata because she has factitious disorder (what used to be called: Munchausen's by Proxy). 

ETA: And the more I think about it, the more I think it is plausible. Renata (and not Dern's acting), is unhinged. Would anyone think that she is not capable after seeing her go ballistic and threatening her daughter to know the truth? Maybe she is trying to trump up a case against the school to sue them? Maybe she just wants attention? She goes off the deep end over the littlest slights or infractions (the party for one). How come they haven't called the police? Why are they not consoling Amabella? Why have they not taken her to a doctor to be assessed for any additional marks or bruises? Renata is not acting like a normal parent in my eyes. I have read case studies of parents with FD. I show a video to my students of a dad who would smother his infant baby to cause seizures. They caught him because there were cameras in the ICU (where the baby was). In addition (this does not align with Renata) people with a medical or nursing background may often be the abuser (in these cases), as they know and understand drugs and what the medical pros will look for. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by riverheightsnancy

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yes, Celeste has a nanny for the twins. In one of the earlier episodes, Madeline calls Celeste and asks if the nanny is with the boys. Celeste says yes so Madeline says, "Good, that means you can meet me for a drink." When Celeste gets home from drinks with Madeline, there are flowers on the table from Perry and the nanny makes a comment about how night time delivery is more expensive. I would guess that Perry encouraged Celeste to hire a nanny to make being at home as easy as possible so that she wouldn't be tempted to go back to work.

You're right! I'd forgotten about that scene. It only makes me wonder more where have all the nannies gone? I get the show isn't about them but its just so strange to me that we haven't seen either nanny since their original introduction. (I think. It turns out my memory isn't what it used to be.)  

In both cases, you'd think due to being around they might be able to play a part in the story. Amabella's nanny might have some insight into who is hurting Amabella and/or why Amabella isn't willing to talk about it. The twins' nanny is in that house and is an adult so you'd think if there's someone who might actually know what's going on with Celeste and Perry it would be her. It's just so strange that as things are getting worse in both plots, these characters who've been introduced are nowhere to be found and with no explanation. Maybe it has to be that way for story reasons that will get filled in later, but I know in the Amabella plot it's been bugging me and now it's going to bug me in Celeste's plot too.

[Lemons]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Nitpick: I know that I didn't grow up in a neighborhood like Monterey with oceanfront views, but when I was in first grade, I didn't have a key to the house so there was no way I could have just walked into the house if someone dropped me off after school.

 

Most people I know who have kids don't lock their doors, especially during the day. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 minutes ago, vibeology said:

It only makes me wonder more where have all the nannies gone? I get the show isn't about them but its just so strange to me that we haven't seen either nanny since their original introduction.

I'm guessing that since the kids have started elementary school, the nannies are mostly around for a few hours in the afternoon (after school until dinner) so  that the moms have support (helping with homework, watching the kids while the mom cooks dinner), probably moreso for Celeste since she has two boys running around. In Renata's case, I think the nanny is more to drive Amabella around to her various after school activities and help with homework until Renata and/or Gordon get back from SV.