S01.E05: Once Bitten

[formerlyfreedom]

Madeline receives encouraging news about the play from her director, Joseph Bachman, but is left concerned by his newly icy demeanor. Principal Nippal and Ms. Barnes share their conclusions about Ziggy and Amabella with Jane. Celeste has a solo session with Dr. Reisman, who tries to get to the bottom of her relationship with Perry.

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[stagmania]

These therapy scenes are absolutely mesmerizing. Hearing Celeste insist that Perry's abuse has no effect on her sons makes me even more certain that they're involved in whatever is happening to Amabella. I wonder if finding out will be her snap out of it moment. 

I'm starting to suspect Tom the coffeehouse guy of something. I have no idea what, but he sure does get a lot of focus from the camera. 

[Keepitmoving]

This show is good, I didn't think I'd like it but I do.

Also, I'd be shocked if Perry didn't turn out to be Jane's rapist and that his boys didn't turn out to be Amabella's abusers. Yeah, that's some disturbing stuff going on in that household and no way are those boys unaware, that's what Celeste would like to think. Nope, they see it and they know, and they are acting it out with Amabella; just two chips off the old block.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[CofCinci]

Ed and Ziggy are the only likable characters left in this series.  Can Ed adopt the kid?

[mochamajesty]

Ok so did anyone catch the look between Abigail and Ed  tonight? Still think nothing is going on?

How exactly do you come up with a plan for when someone beats you?

[susannot]

Even the playful way the boys were shooting their Mom with Nerf guns, with Dad encouraging it, was disturbing.

 

They live in California.  The Tarasoff rule applies.  A therapist is required to report a patient whom they reasonably suspect is in danger.  May happen next week, as it looks like Celeste is attempting to flee at the airport.

[CleoCaesar]

Oh man this show is so good. Loved the therapy scenes especially. At least Celeste can finally verbalize to someone that she's being abused.

Re: Madeleine's affair

Spoiler

I don't know why the show is making her affair - which wasn't in the book - a major part of her arc at this point. I'm not sure what it adds to her character.

Renata is unbearable.

I wish Shailene Woodley would wake up a little. I don't think she's consciously acting detached (like a traumatized rape victim might) - she just seems stiff, like she's trying to remember her lines.

[Primetimer]

And should she take those creepy twins with her? Let's explore this and more questions about 'Once Bitten'!

View the full article

[susannot]

Wow, that was fast!!

[stagmania]

@CleoCaesar 

Spoiler

I figure the affair is just one more element to throw into the mix for possible murder motives/victims. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by stagmania

[CofCinci]

4 minutes ago, susannot said:

They live in California.  The Tarasoff rule applies.  A therapist is required to report a patient whom they reasonably suspect is in danger.  May happen next week, as it looks like Celeste is attempting to flee at the airport.

Celeste stated that she wasn't in danger.

(Tarasoff doesn't work like that either, but I don't want to get into that here.)

[Keepitmoving]

11 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Ok so did anyone catch the look between Abigail and Ed  tonight? Still think nothing is going on?

How exactly do you come up with a plan for when someone beats you?

I definitely caught it and side eyed it the last time too.

The plan for Celeste I assume is an exit plan.

3 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Celeste stated that she wasn't in danger.

(Tarasoff doesn't work like that either, but I don't want to get into that here.)

I thought she finally admitted that she did feel like she was in danger of dying when they showed that flashback of Perry smashing her face into their couch and suffocating her. Because after she wouldn't admit at first that she felt in danger the therapist then got into asking her whether or not she ever felt like she could die.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[stagmania]

8 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Ok so did anyone catch the look between Abigail and Ed  tonight? Still think nothing is going on?

Yep. Nothing about that look communicated secret affair to me. I think he was just happy she was home. 

[susannot]

IMO, it doesn't matter what the patient states.  The therapist clearly suspects--knows--what is going on.  She is trained to identify abuse cases and has probably seen hundreds of them.

Edited March 20, 2017 by susannot

[Kell]

Hi, I finally found a forum of people talking about this show - I am so into this show, and I can't believe I have to wait another week for the next episode. lol

I agree that it is possible Perry is Jane's rapist and that maybe the twins are hurting Amabelle, but then again, it almost seems too obvious.. ?

I haven't gotten any weird vibes between Ed and Abigail...  my god, there are so many angles and things to consider here with this show!  We don't even know who gets murdered let alone who did it!  : )

My main thing was being slayed by Janis Joplin "Ball and Chain" at the end of this episode.  Holy sh*tttttt that was amazing.

[jacksgirl]

Sorry. I can't see Ed aka Ben Wyatt with anyone but Leslie Knope. Does anyone stand at a computer? What is up with that? Ziggy is just way too cute to be a bully. Renata and Scruffy need to put Amabella in private school

 You try to petition a kid out of public school, you'd have a lawsuit on your hands so fast, there are so many privacy/confidentiality rules we follow.

[Irlandesa]

15 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Ok so did anyone catch the look between Abigail and Ed  tonight? Still think nothing is going on?

I didn't see Abigail look at him but I did see him looking at her....very similar to the moment earlier in the series.  I might need to watch again.  But again, it was quick.  I do wonder about her "secret project," though.

Part of me really wishes I had stuck to my guns and waited to binge this series because it leaves me wanting more.  And I want to read spoilers even though things have changed.  Darnit!

That therapy scene was fascinating. I think it might give some insight into how abuse victims justify staying in their relationships or how they come to see them. And I'm not shocked at all that she went to cling to Perry at the airport. For better or worse, the therapist session shook her up and she ran to what was familiar to her.

Renata and Gordon were annoying to me in their fight scene.  Talk about parents railroading their child.

Quote

Does anyone stand at a computer?

*raises hand*  I actually have a computer that goes up and down.  I prefer to sit when I'm typing but I like the option of standing when I read.  I get anxious sitting for long periods at a time.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Muffyn]

The music on this show is incredible.  "Ball and Chain" was so perfect. 

I have never been impressed with Nicole Kidman as an actress.  She is changing my mind.  The therapy session was incredibly intense and really well written.  There were so many ways she tried to make it sound like it wasn't abuse even while it was clear that she remembers bruises (may even currently have some), knows he hits her, remembers being strangled, . . . .

[susannot]

The actress playing the therapist was also excellent.  I can see some acting awards given to this show.

[stagmania]

11 minutes ago, Kell said:

I agree that it is possible Perry is Jane's rapist and that maybe the twins are hurting Amabelle, but then again, it almost seems too obvious.. ?

I'm starting to think the obvious may be where it's at. I prefer a resolution that tracks with everything we've seen over something out of left field just for the sake of a crazy twist.

Timeline: if Perry is in fact Jane's rapist, that would mean he was out date raping women in that time period of fertility struggles during which Celeste thinks he was so devoted and wonderful, the root of her unwillingness to leave him. That's so fucking tragic that I think it must be true.

Edited March 20, 2017 by stagmania

[Kell]

Muffyn, I feel the same way - never been a Nicole Kidman fan really but I do like her in this a lot.

The feeling I got was Celeste lost all these babies because he smacked her around...   so many innuendos in this series, it's really well done. Sorry, I am sorta obsessed. lol

[stagmania]

6 minutes ago, jacksgirl said:

Does anyone stand at a computer? What is up with that? 

Yep, it's called a standing desk and lots of people use them. They seem to be especially popular with the geeky tech guy crowd, so I've always thought it was a spot on characterization choice for Ed.

[archer1267]

The twins know more than Celeste realizes. It was very telling that Perry scared them at the dinner table, and they went for their (laser? water?) guns for defense...and attacked Celeste, who hadn't done anything to them. They're obviously picking up on the fact that it's okay to confront Mom or pick on her and she won't do anything about it.

This is not based on anything I've seen on the show (and more from watching Law & Order), but does anyone suspect that Ammabella's being abused by someone outside of school? Maybe even an adult?

STFU, Renata.

[Kell]

Right, was just going to say a lot of techies and designers use them.  Wish I had one at work, actually.

[Keepitmoving]

1 minute ago, archer1267 said:

The twins know more than Celeste realizes. It was very telling that Perry scared them at the dinner table, and they went for their (laser? water?) guns for defense...and attacked Celeste, who hadn't done anything to them. They're obviously picking up on the fact that it's okay to confront Mom or pick on her and she won't do anything about it.

This is not based on anything I've seen on the show (and more from watching Law & Order), but does anyone suspect that Ammabella's being abused by someone outside of school? Maybe even an adult?

STFU, Renata.

And even worse, Perry was holding her and telling them to shoot.

[susannot]

Quote

The feeling I got was Celeste lost all these babies because he smacked her around...   so many innuendos in this series, it's really well done. Sorry, I am sorta obsessed. lol

Yes,I wanted the therapist to ask Celeste whether Perry had ever punched her in the belly during her pregnancies.  I bet he did.

[Kell]

OOh good suggestion about them attacking Celeste, I noticed that but didn't make that connection -- and of course the kids know more than they think, they always do!

RE:  Amabelle's abuser -- I've even gone so far as to wonder about that teacher - I mean, she sure does seem to miss a lot of violence going on in her classroom!

[blixie]

Quote

she remembers bruises (may even currently have some)

May? We were explicitly shown her hiding the many bruises she has currently with make up in the car. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

9 minutes ago, Muffyn said:

The music on this show is incredible.  "Ball and Chain" was so perfect. 

I have never been impressed with Nicole Kidman as an actress.  She is changing my mind.  The therapy session was incredibly intense and really well written.  There were so many ways she tried to make it sound like it wasn't abuse even while it was clear that she remembers bruises (may even currently have some), knows he hits her, remembers being strangled, . . . .

Nicole Kidman doesn't usually impress me either. But she's brilliant when she plays the villain. Check out "To Die For" and even "Paddington"!

[Irlandesa]

4 minutes ago, Kell said:

Muffyn, I feel the same way - never been a Nicole Kidman fan really but I do like her in this a lot.

The feeling I got was Celeste lost all these babies because he smacked her around...   so many innuendos in this series, it's really well done. Sorry, I am sorta obsessed. lol

Nicole has been great in all of those scenes.  When she mentioned the miscarriages, I was waiting for the therapist to ask her when Perry started hurting her.

5 minutes ago, susannot said:

The actress playing the therapist was also excellent.  I can see some acting awards given to this show.

Her name is Robin Weigert and I remember her as Calamity Jane in Deadwood.  And the first season of Life.  She's always excellent.

Just now, Keepitmoving said:

And even worse, Perry was holding her and telling them to shoot.

While modeling that he'd "protect" her. 

[Kell]

Her voice is so relaxing, I want to go and see her and tell her everything. LOL!

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Her name is Robin Weigert and I remember her as Calamity Jane in Deadwood.  And the first season of Life.  She's always excellent.

OMG, that's who that is?  I could only take that show in small doses, but I remember her, she was a hoot.

[Gem 10]

o.k.  Enough of Jane running with those earplugs.  Why is everybody just talking about the bullying between Ziggy & Arabella?  It's not proven, and yet he's guilty according to most.  Someone get that kid Arabella to talk the truth already .. Like her big mouth Mother already?  Jane should fight for her kid  like Rinata is fighting for hers.  Everybody just running around talking and yelling.  Get down to it already.

If Celeste is hiding the truth, why go to the psychologist?  Stop lying, face the fact that your husband is an abuser and get on with it.  Her kids are already ruined.  She has the money and means to leave.  Most abused  women don't and are forced to stay mostly for financial reasons.  What a nut job if she has to be beaten to enjoy sex.  She needs therapy for that alone.

Maddy'S situation .. I just don't know.  What a mess.

Just love Maddy's little daughter.  What a "Firecracker".

[lmsweb]

Seriously, if you haven't seen Dead Calm with Nicole Kidman (her first movie, with Sam Neil, AND she gets to be an Aussie in it), you need to watch it.

[Atlanta]

I want Jane to get arrested for DUI. Er, you're dealing with enough and your kid is too and then you decide to get high while driving around? Dunce.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Renata, stop bullying your daughter while you are trying to coax her into revealing who the bully is.

[kjwillis93]

Do any music savvy folks out there know the song that Jane was listening to in her car as she was driving and smoking a joint? 

[MerBearHou]

The Celeste - Perry relationship just astonishes me.  I agree that both Nicole and Alexander are doing an incredible acting job with their characters.  Often Celeste seems to genuinely enjoy Perry and her smiles seem real and relaxed. I don't see the hatred, fear and cowling that I would expect -- that I would feel if I were being abused.  He's doing this when their children are in the house.  She doesn't seem to be hating the angry-sex.  They have a very, very twisted connection to each other.  She kept standing up for him to the therapist.  This is a different view of abuse than is typically shown -- it's a very dangerous co-dependency.  But I bet next week she breaks and sees it for what it is.  Just isn't there yet.

Edited March 20, 2017 by MerBearHou

[humbleopinion]

"This Feeling" by Alabama Shakes

Jane puffing some mary jane.

[isiscloud]

Wow! Great episode. So packed with things.

Renata just happening to show up "early" and barging in. It's one thing to want to make sure that your child is protected, but she isn't the only one involved here. Jane handing her a Kleenex was sad.

Speaking of Jane. Get a grip, lady. Smoking in the car and running red lights and confronting your potential baby daddy with a loaded gun in your car? Not smart. My gaydar isn't as sharp, but he definitely isn't Ziggy's dad.

Celeste. Wow. I felt for Nicole playing this role, especially knowing about the pregnancy issues she had with Tom Cruise. I was hoping that when she was driving up to the airport that she was going away with the boys; but nope. It's not her fault and I hope that she can get out before Perry does kill her. Interesting to see the escalation. I don't think that he would have beat her when she was pregnant, but who knows.

Wanted to give Maddy a big hug after her accident.

[riverheightsnancy]

I think that part of Celeste's problem is that she emphatically states that she is not a victim. She believes that she is part of the "problem", therefore he is not an abuser.  Her thinking needs to change because, until she realizes that her labels don't matter and what is happening is wrong (no matter who starts it), only then will she be able to actually get help or leave.

ETA: if memory serves, 2 of the most dangerous times for an abused woman are: 1) when pregnant 2) when they try to leave. If that is still true, there is a chance that the miscarriages could have been caused by abuse. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by riverheightsnancy

[lovinbob]

27 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

If Celeste is hiding the truth, why go to the psychologist?  Stop lying, face the fact that your husband is an abuser and get on with it.  Her kids are already ruined.  She has the money and means to leave.  Most abused  women don't and are forced to stay mostly for financial reasons.  What a nut job if she has to be beaten to enjoy sex.  She needs therapy for that alone.

It's not that easy. Many of us know from experience. And I think the show, and Nicole Kidman, are doing a great job of showing why it's not so easy. 

The therapy scene was so well done. Both actresses, and the direction too. In a show that does so much with flashbacks, it was great to see that they didn't use them in this scene. They just let us remember and anticipate what Celeste had been through.

[Gem 10]

5 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Renata, stop bullying your daughter while you are trying to coax her into revealing who the bully is.

Is it because Arabella is "gifted"  that she is so smart to keep a secret at 6 yrs old?  Are the twins making her keep the secret?   My 9 year old granddaughter, a very smart kid, tells me all the secrets.  She can't hold things in and is adorable.   Maybe Renata should try bribing her into telling the truth and get this all over with.  I know, I know .. I'm bad.

[Kell]

Yeah, can't figure out why Amabella is not talking... granted mom is a schitzo but still...   is she maybe doing it for attention?  Her parents seem like super busy executives... 

[vixenbynight]

1 hour ago, stagmania said:

Yep. Nothing about that look communicated secret affair to me. I think he was just happy she was home. 

I think that Abigail has known about her mother's affair for a long time and Ed is suspicious of how erratic Madeline has been.

[Gem 10]

6 minutes ago, lovinbob said:

It's not that easy. Many of us know from experience. And I think the show, and Nicole Kidman, are doing a great job of showing why it's not so easy. 

The therapy scene was so well done. Both actresses, and the direction too. In a show that does so much with flashbacks, it was great to see that they didn't use them in this scene. They just let us remember and anticipate what Celeste had been through.

 

7 minutes ago, lovinbob said:

It's not that easy. Many of us know from experience. And I think the show, and Nicole Kidman, are doing a great job of showing why it's not so easy. 

The therapy scene was so well done. Both actresses, and the direction too. In a show that does so much with flashbacks, it was great to see that they didn't use them in this scene. They just let us remember and anticipate what Celeste had been through.

I guess you are right about all that.  This show has a purpose to educate all abused women.  Nicole Kidman and the rest are doing a good job.   It's hard to understand when you're not in that position.

[ProudMary]

What was the reason for the teacher to insist that Jane take Ziggy to the child psychologist if no one is going to bring up the fact that the psychologist confirmed Jane's belief that Ziggy could not be the bully?  Jane doesn't bring that up in the meeting with the principal and teacher?  The school hasn't been notified of the psychologist's diagnosis?  If it were my kid, I'd be screaming from the rafters that he was "cleared" of wrong doing.  Even though we've seen that she wonders if Ziggy could have inherited violent tendencies from his father, she should at least be bringing up the psychologist's assessment.  Why show that scene last week, if they're not going to do something with it?

[Cardie]

I too believe that Tom the diner guy has a bigger part to play in how this all sorts out. He gets notice some place every episode. I'd hope for something benign like him crushing on Jane and their getting together after the killing but that doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would happen in this show.

[Irlandesa]

1 minute ago, Gem 10 said:

I guess you are right about all that.  This show has a purpose to educate all abused women.  Nicole Kidman and the rest are doing a good job.   It's hard to understand when you're not in that position.

I don't think this storyline is mean to be educational, necessarily, just a somewhat realistic portrayal of what it can be like for certain abused women.  If anyone is educated, I think it might be for people who aren't in that position.  That said, whenever high profile storylines like this are covered well, it actually can inspire people in similar positions.  There's something about seeing a situation depicted in someone else that can clarify one's own situation. 

I forgot to ask about Jane going to see her potential rapist.  The closed captioning mentioned there was a gun shot sound right after she sniffed him but we think she realized he didn't smell like her rapist, right?  And just left?  It's not like she's going to get arrested for murder...