S21.E09: Week 9

[OnceSane]

Quote

Andi Dorfman surprises Nick when he returns from visiting the families of the final four women; after the rose ceremony, Nick heads to Lapland, Finland, with the final three women.

[betha]

WTF, show- are you trying to remove every last bit of dramatic suspense? Do you hate your audience? They already spoiled that Rachel is bachelorette. And before the rose ceremony they show Raven in Finland AND in the corner run a GMA ad for "Corinne speaks out tomorrow morning!" 

[RHJunkie]

Nick's reaction to Raven's 'I love you' makes me think that maybe Raven has a shot at the F1 but I keep getting stuck with the whole approach with production. If they gave equal time and had Nick sharing equal time talking about the women, I would be confused about who he  chooses but the lack of attention on Vanessa all season long makes me think production is building up the Nick/Raven relationship only to make it a surprising win for Vanessa. 

Nick in the turtle neck...no. 

Also, this one hour episode just pissed me off. They've been messing around with the episode structure all season long and now this...incredibly annoying.

[bosawks]

Raven, if a man can't understand the bliss that is steaming and is living in the past of ironing he isn't worth you!

[huahaha]

My ideal outcome:

* Vanessa is sent home for being cheerless.

* Raven gets her orgasm.

* Rachel says I love you, but it's not very heartfelt, so she understands when she goes home.

* Andi gives Nick another chance in the sack. NYC guys obviously aren't floating her boat. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by huahaha

[JenE4]

The Andi scene was pointless. Just so he could say he might choose no one? Well no one in Bachelor Nation believes that. 

I think either the cameraman forgot to film the ladies' reaction shots, or Corrine already knew the producers were only making Nick keep her through the hometowns because she had tears streaming down her face throughout the entire rose ceremony--even before it started. I'm going with knowing her contract was up, because she didn't even ask Nick why. He's saying he has nothing but love for her. Any other reject in Bachelor History has retorted, "Then why are you sending me home?" She gave a halfhearted, "What did I do?" But it just wasn't the typical response--especially considering the pre-emptive tears.

Oh, boy. I thought Raven's cheating story was TMI, but now we have to hear about her lack of the Big O, and how she expects Nick to make it happen in the fantasy suite. No pressure, though. And she and Dr. Stiletto to the Skull were dating for two years but were not in love. Maybe they weren't actually in an exclusive relationship and, hence, he didn't actually cheat.

[Mabinogia]

4 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

Nick's reaction to Raven's 'I love you' makes me think that maybe Raven has a shot at the F1

Nick's reaction made me think Raven just blew her chance of getting any. He looked like he wanted to be anywhere but sitting there listening to her ramble on about god knows what because she went on so long it seems like even she forgot what she was supposed to be saying. I felt no heat at all between them. Zero. When she talks about her feelings she's very robot. And when they kissed, I'm pretty sure they literally just sat there with their lips pressed together counting in their head how long before they could separate. That was so awkward.

WTF with the one hour? WTF with the starting with rose ceremonies. And thanks for bringing back Andi to be useless. UGH I hate that smug woman.

I need to stop watching this crap. It puts me in a foul mood.

I was pleasantly surprised that The Vagine didn't have a total meltdown and start stomping around Verruca Salt style telling Daddy she wants her golden egg and she wants it now! "But he is in love with someone else, sweetie" "I don't care! Buy him for me Daddy! I want him now!!!!" She's probably already signed the contract for whatever lame show they will give her as a consolation prize.

I feel like, with this new format of randomly plopped rose ceremonies, that nothing happens. I just watched an entire hour of this show and I feel like nothing happened. It just kind of ended.

[Superpole2000]

"My ex never made me orgasm."

No pressure, Nick! But Raven...that's kind of your own fault too for not figuring out what you like and/or not demanding/requesting it. At this point, I feel like she came on this show as some sort of revenge on her ex because she seems to be all about embarrassing him.

You know what I've never enjoyed? Being on a date with a woman and having two random dudes walk up to us to interact with or challenge me to something. I would have been annoyed with that darts situation...not only because that dartboard wasn't legit.

[Jax7917]

I really like raven but that talking about the orgasm or lack there of on national tv is bringing the trash out . I mean guaranteed the producers want to make a big thing of nick not being known as good in the sack , so they're sticking with the story line of will he give her an orgasm ? But still . Too much . 

 

Andi is the phoniest person I've ever seen . She has such an annoyingness/ smugness about her it's disgusting 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Surely they could have rose ceremonies (when they bother to have them) inside by a nice roaring fire. Those women were freezing their butts off again. That is all...

[bosawks]

If Raven imparts no helpful guidance during sex I envision a future of limited orgasams for her.  She certainly seemed to put the onus on the ex.

I wouldn't blame Nick for punting on this one.

And I could blame Nick for global warming....

[jade.black]

Raven now seems way younger to me. Not the orgasm thing- but why wouldn't she wait until cameras were gone in the fantasy suite to say that?! I'm sure her daddy loved hearing that on TV, and also, girl, get yourself a nice vibrator- but dating a guy for two years who she never professed love for and who apparently was only able to say it to her when drunk. If I heard that story without knowing who told it, I would assume it was someone 21 or younger. She was so obviously nervous on their date though, it was kind of endearing. And they had genuine conversations. It's the first time I remember hearing a Bachelor discuss chores!

I loved Raven's red sweater on the date. Nick usually wears clothes well but I laughed out loud at him in that turtleneck. Nope.

Just seeing Vanessa onscreen depresses me. She said about two things this episode and still managed tears.

Nick didn't even pretend to be emotional sending Corinne home! Not even a conversation about it. Weird. I think the most I've liked her so far was in her exit interview when she talked about not trying to impress a man from here on out.

I hated that Andi forced him to apologize for calling her out on ATFR. Shut up, Andi. Despite that, I still think those two are a better match than him with any of his finalists.

[kazza]

"Andi, we'd love your opinion." -no one

She did look great, though. Polished. The other women looked like ... Bachelor contestants. 

What is up with all the outdoors rose ceremonies in freezing temperatures? Is the show sponsored by Vicks Vaporub? 

Car honking during Nick's little rose ceremony speech. Yeah, buddy, us too. 

I did feel a little bad for Corinne, like I would for a child who's lost her favorite toy. The best part, though, was the busy street and people walking by randomly. I love NY. 

This is the worst season yet. I don't care about Raven's big O. Or Vanessa pouting again. Or whether Nick is in love. 

WTA should be interesting. 

[waving feather]

I haven't watch it yet but did Raven ACTUALLY revealed that she did not have orgasm with her ex? Holy cow, there is nothing this chick won't talk about. Her lack of boundaries is scary. 

[hyacinth]

Corrinne (still can't spell it) declaring she was falling asleep right after declaring she wasn't sucking up to men anymore was pretty funny.  The girl's a survivor.   

I couldn't decide if Nick looked horrified or fascinated at Raven's lack of orgasms with her one and only sexual partner.  I'll have some deliciously chilled pinot grigio in a box ready for next week's big reveal.  

[uoflfan]

We know way too much about these women's gynecological issues between Raven's one sexual experience/lack of orgasm and Corinne's platinum vagine.

The burning question we'll be left with is whether Raven reached the Big O.  I doubt it.

[yorklee2]

6 minutes ago, jade.black said:

Raven now seems way younger to me. Not the orgasm thing- but why wouldn't she wait until cameras were gone in the fantasy suite to say that?!

I agree. I like Raven but with this new confession it's painful obvious she is very immature. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt with the stiletto (although I still think production had a heavy hand in that) but twice now revealing things that are for private conversations and not national tv? Raven whatever you do, do not go on BIP. You will be eaten alive.

43 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

He looked like he wanted to be anywhere but sitting there listening to her ramble on about god knows what because she went on so long it seems like even she forgot what she was supposed to be saying. I felt no heat at all between them. Zero.

I have never saw intense heat between them but I do feel Nick genuinely likes her. Because of that (and her confession) I don't see him going all the way in the FS. To me he probably looks on her now somewhat in pity much like I think he did with Corrine.

[adhoc]

You know what this show is missing? Tom Servo, Crow, and Joel walking in and sitting down in the front row (in silhouette) and snarking on the silliness of this show. I only made it through the first 15 or so minutes of the episode--I had no desire to see Wednesday Adams' older sister go on a date with Nick--but  I'm sure that during those 15 minutes, the MST3K crew would have fired off some brilliant insights. I know I was talking back to my TV while Nick talked with Andi (and where are the thought balloons when you need them?) and later with Corinne (who seemed to have hookerwear on under her jacket). 

[catrice2]

Thank you guys for watching this so I don't have to.  I decided not to watch the whatever this is called because going to bed on national television with someone you just met weeks ago and letting everyone know about it...way too much for me.  Hometown dates I think was as far as I could go because I have no  intention of watching the final two, especially after what I am reading here.  

So Rachel did not go home tonight? I was hoping all of the women would refuse to sleep with him,but I guess in Raven's case not. 

 Rachel is the Bachelorette, Raven bores me and I STILL can't figure out why I don't like Vanessa more.  It is like Shemar Moore....I know I SHOULD find him attractive, but I don't. 

1 minute ago, adhoc said:

You know what this show is missing? Tom Servo, Crow, and Joel walking in and sitting down in the front row (in silhouette) and snarking on the silliness of this show. I only made it through the first 15 or so minutes of the episode--I had no desire to see Wednesday Adams' older sister go on a date with Nick--but  I'm sure that during those 15 minutes, the MST3K crew would have fired off some brilliant insights. I know I was talking back to my TV while Nick talked with Andi (and where are the thought balloons when you need them?) and later with Corinne (who seemed to have hookerwear on under her jacket). 

Wednesday Adams....you nailed it!!   I have been trying to name Raven all season and there it is!!!  

[MsPH]

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

I haven't watch it yet but did Raven ACTUALLY revealed that she did not have orgasm with her ex? Holy cow, there is nothing this chick won't talk about. Her lack of boundaries is scary. 

Yes. I really hope Nick didn't have sex with her because I'm sure we'll hear about it in detail at some point if he did. Does she realise she's in front of TV cameras?

I didn't see any chemistry between them either. I'm sure Nick cares about her, like he does about all these women, but she's still a girl. I happen to think Nick's looking for a woman. If Raven wasn't already in the little sister category, she is now.

[Wandering Snark]

You want 'edge' huh Nick? Well, be careful what you wish for... damn. I can't believe she actually said it in a talking head, let alone to Nick. 'Oh by the way you should know that...' *shakes head* Seriously? I'm sure you could have saved that for later, nothing like putting pressure on the potential situation. Performance issues are high enough the first time anyways but damn. I can't believe this show even has me commenting on someone's orgasms and lack thereof but this show is klassy like that. However I'm not feeling sorry for poor orgasm-less Raven. You notice she didn't say she's never had one she said the ex was never able to 'give her one' which may actually be part of the problem.

I still hold to that Raven is the best option for Nick, low mileage and if you can at sometime "give" here one you're The King. Not too bad in the overall! Knowing that it's down to Raven and The Joy of Sex or the Joy of Being Joyless with Vanessa I'd take Raven for sure.

I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention how kinda creepy it was that Nick couldn't stop kissing Corrine after he cut her. Stop being affectionate with the woman you just cut off! Borders. But yeah I guess that's our theme for tonight Borders and the lack thereof.

So we are now facing three f'ing HOURS of seeing Rachel's date knowing she's the next Bachelorette and then Vanessa knowing she'll be a nice wet blanket for their 'fantasy' suite? Wow, talk about must see tv. Oy.

[Artsda]

Seeing Andi, made me appreciate Corrine.  She got over being cut pretty fast in the limo.

[clubsauce]

After Corrine was booted, I thought it looked like she was contorting/covering her face to stifle laughter, not fight back tears. I wasn't paying attention before the rose ceremony when she was "crying", but after I did not see any actual tears. Dry face, dry fingers after wiping her eyes. My hat is off to her sleeping abilities though. As a lifelong sufferer of occasional insomnia, the girl's ability to instantly achieve R.E.M. anytime and anywhere is enviable!

[ragingpixie]

Corrine took lessons from the Tamra Barney School of TV Crying.

Edited February 28, 2017 by ragingpixie

[nutty1]

Zero = the amount of chemistry I saw with Nick and Raven. And I've liked Raven until now but honey....save that confession for the fantasy suite. 

So it comes down to Raven and Vanessa. I can't warm up to Vanessa at all. So I'm guessing the ending will be just ok either way. 

But hey....Nick is on DWTS. Fleiss tweeted it tonight. I've heard Peta is his partner. 

[backformore]

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

I haven't watch it yet but did Raven ACTUALLY revealed that she did not have orgasm with her ex? Holy cow, there is nothing this chick won't talk about. Her lack of boundaries is scary. 

It's pretty much all she talked about. I don't know if she said it multiple times, or just said it once and they played it over and over, but I started out not caring, and cared a little less each time I heard it.

[Wings]

Way to ensure Nick will NOT have sex with you in FS, Rachael.   He would not like his failure to satisfy you all over the internet.  Or get beaten with a stiletto should he irritate you down the road.  And I am not even going to touch mudding and darts in a pub every night (she said she would love that).

Smart money says he is not going to move to Canada either.  So looks like Andi is his best match.  :^) 

BiP cannot come fast enough.  I want more Corinne.  

Edited February 28, 2017 by wings707

[Andromeda]

3 hours ago, betha said:

WTF, show- are you trying to remove every last bit of dramatic suspense? Do you hate your audience? They already spoiled that Rachel is bachelorette. And before the rose ceremony they show Raven in Finland AND in the corner run a GMA ad for "Corinne speaks out tomorrow morning!" 

I know, that was really lame. All we need now is for Rachel to be in the F2 to rob the finale of any suspense whatsoever.

Nick and Raven's dinner conversation sounded so stilted! By now, they should know each other a lot better than filling the air with "Did you have fun today?" "I had fun today." "What was your favorite part about today?" Sounded like first date talk to me. For instance, I would have given the dartboard guys some silly nicknames, a code between just us two. Instead, they sounded like they were on a blind date.

Vanessa tells Nick she has traditional values -- Nick says he doesn't at all. I think they'd better define terms. I'm somewhat traditional in some ways (regarding intimacy) but very liberal in others. But I'm not "edgy" -- and I wouldn't put Nick in that category, either.

Wandering Snark said:

Quote

You want 'edge' huh Nick? Well, be careful what you wish for... damn. I can't believe she actually said it in a talking head, let alone to Nick. 'Oh by the way you should know that...' *shakes head* Seriously? I'm sure you could have saved that for later, nothing like putting pressure on the potential situation. Performance issues are high enough the first time anyways but damn. I can't believe this show even has me commenting on someone's orgasms and lack thereof but this show is klassy like that. However I'm not feeling sorry for poor orgasm-less Raven. You notice she didn't say she's never had one she said the ex was never able to 'give her one' which may actually be part of the problem.talk about must see tv. 

I know!! I said the same thing, and I'm a woman. Way to pressure the guy. Plus, I kept trying to figure out if she meant never ever, or never specifically during intercourse, which isn't uncommon at all. But if never ever in the sack with him, I agree with other posters -- that's on her to communicate what she wants and likes.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Andromeda
added more thoughts...

[PhysNerd]

Well, Raven better get used to being single.  I can't think of a guy who would want to date a woman with no sense of boundaries.  Talking about your ex boyfriend's performance in bed on tv is not okay....even if he cheated. There are some things that should remain private between couples: sex is one of those things.  If Nick is smart, he will not sleep with her because his performance (good or bad) will be broadcasted all over social media.  

Raven seems sweet, but she has a lot of growing up to do.  

If I were Nick, I wouldn't pick any of these women.  He should just marry Andi already. 

[Wings]

1 minute ago, PhysNerd said:

Well, Raven better get used to being single.  I can't think of a guy who would want to date a woman with no sense of boundaries.  Talking about your ex boyfriend's performance in bed on tv is not okay....even if he cheated. There are some things that should remain private between couples: sex is one of those things.  If Nick is smart, he will not sleep with her because his performance (good or bad) will be broadcasted all over social media.  

Raven seems sweet, but she has a lot of growing up to do.  

If I were Nick, I wouldn't pick any of these women.  He should just marry Andi already. 

YES.  ALL OF THIS. 

[Wandering Snark]

16 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Nick and Raven's dinner conversation sounded so stilted! By now, they should know each other a lot better than filling the air with "Did you have fun today?" "I had fun today." "What was your favorite part about today?"

And even worse she answered (twice even I think) 'What was your favorite part' with the always illuminating "I think all of it!" They really had a banter going. Heh.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Wandering Snark

[catrice2]

All that I am gathering from the comments is that Raven just showed how young she really is.  I have gotten that pornstar  daddy vibe from him every time I've seen him in a scene with her or Corinne.

He just clearly is too old and has been around the block too much for either one of them. And maybe not so much that he's too old but that they are too immature . I stick with what I said, Nick knew he was getting rid of Rachel before this but he also knew that to take Corinne to Fantasy Suites would just make him look bad.  Also feel like for his image he does not want to leave the show without proposing to somebody. He knew Raven and Corinne are too young and that down the line Rachel would lose interest in him. He decided to give Rachel the trip and sleep with Raven. Nick is not stupid if the producers and all the girls were loving Rachel as much as they say he knew it would make him look good to keep her around for a while.

That leaves Vanessa, and it gives him the perfect out of saying that  ultimately the relationship didn't work out because of distance or something. That way he doesn't look like the bad guy comma can keep pretending he was in it for love and he can keep pursuing whatever he's pursuing.  On the other hand I think he is so addicted to this crap that he would want the big paid for wedding and some more attention.

[Andromeda]

2 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

I agree. I like Raven but with this new confession it's painful obvious she is very immature. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt with the stiletto (although I still think production had a heavy hand in that) but twice now revealing things that are for private conversations and not national tv? Raven whatever you do, do not go on BIP. You will be eaten alive.

What's this about a stiletto? What did I (sleep through) miss?

[Zung Li]

I was hoping Nick and Andi would start making out so we could end this charade.

Vanessa crying: "I don't feel special" LOL! She's such a pain in the ass.

Usually when the rejected one gets in the limo they start off trying to be stoic and then break down in tears. Corinne started out kind of crying but then quickly shut it down and decided to take a nap. Ha!

It's interesting that all the final women on this season don't wear much makeup- especially compared to Ben's season and BIP= it's kind of refreshing.

I hope Raven does spill what happened on her overnight. We've watched (and suffered) this long we might as well know the whole story.

[amcfar]

Raven, Raven, Raven. That was painful to watch. Whenever anyone on this show makes a TMI confession, I always wonder what on earth they're thinking. Don't they ever stop for a moment to think about how awkward it'll be to go back to work and face everyone after the episode airs? Don't they think about the fact that their parents, siblings, grandparents, and others will hear what they said on the show?? Don't they think about how TV/Internet is forever and that once it airs it's never truly gone?

Corinne wasn't so much upset as she was trying to make herself seem upset. It didn't work. 

[Wandering Snark]

42 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

What's this about a stiletto? What did I (sleep through) miss?

She claims to have kicked in a door and eventually beat her ex-fiancé (and her life's only sexual partner) with a shoe. It was handy when she caught him sleeping with another woman. That story also included the wonderful overshare of her stating that she now can say of the woman that she 'knows what her vagina looks like'.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Wandering Snark

[Lemons]

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

Seeing Andi, made me appreciate Corrine.  She got over being cut pretty fast in the limo.

It seems like they all knewthe ending weeks before this episode happened. Corrine was aware that her acting gig was up. Rachel seems to know that she's the next bachelor.

There is no love match!  It's too bad. 

[waving feather]

Since Corinne is out, there is no way Nick will choose Raven (he probably thinks he is more sophisticated than her), and Rachel is the Bachelorette, we're left with Vanessa. Good luck with that, Nick.

Edited February 28, 2017 by waving feather

[huahaha]

5 hours ago, nutty1 said:

But hey....Nick is on DWTS. Fleiss tweeted it tonight. I've heard Peta is his partner. 

Wow, really? That's a clear sign Nick isn't invested in whomever he chose. Most of the bachelors who've done Dancing with the Stars admitted afterward that it was terrible for their new relationship. You basically bond and grow with your dancing partner instead of your fiancée. That's why Ben didn't do it. Damn, this season is a shitshow.

[cinsays]

I agree with the others that commented on Raven's inability to know that talking about the big "O" is not something to do on camera for the whole world (ok, the couple thousand still watching this mess) to hear.  Quite a classless move.         And, does her ex still live in their little town? Must be nice for him to hear that he was not such a pleasing lover.  And the woman he hooked up with must feel great knowing her lady parts were on display.  Yuck.

How old is this girl again?  Acts very immature.  Almost as bad as Corinne.  Both too young for uncle Nick.

None of these girls deserves to get stuck with this guy.  He is NOT looking for a lasting love relationship, he's just a player. Strange that he claims to have such a close relationship with his mother but did not develop a good respect for women.

[waving feather]

Raven talks like a little girl. Corinne seems more grown-up than her in certain ways. Girl, you can talk about orgasms or lack of it with your girlfriends, but not on national television. Have some discretion! And she talks about her ex so much, I don't know if she is really over him.

I love Corinne's exit, by the way. She did it the Corinne way. Cried like a little girl at first, then Nick hugged her and kissed her head like she is his little sister (that's their whole dynamic!), and then later empowered with "whatever, I ain't pleasing no man anymore" speech and capped it off with a nice nap in the limo. It was awesome.

[JenE4]

7 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

 

So we are now facing three f'ing HOURS of seeing Rachel's date knowing she's the next Bachelorette and then Vanessa knowing she'll be a nice wet blanket for their 'fantasy' suite? Wow, talk about must see tv. Oy.

On the plus side, they were also previewing The Women Tell All, so I think we'll get the second hour of this episode plus the 2-hour TWTA. That's usually a good show. 

53 minutes ago, cinsays said:

 

And, does her ex still live in their little town? Must be nice for him to hear that he was not such a pleasing lover.  And the woman he hooked up with must feel great knowing her lady parts were on display.  Yuck.

I remembered that she grabbed her mama's keys and drove all the way to Little Rock when she got the call from Dr. Stiletto's nurse. Google Maps tells me Hoxie to Little Rock is 2 hours and 3 minutes. Now I'm even MORE convinced that this wasn't a steady relationship. He's a doctor who probably works all of the time and they're semi long distance. They weren't in love--didn't even pretend to say it (her never, him only when drunk). Considering the great detail she gave about this other woman's apparent enjoyment of Dr. Stiletto's love making abilities, I think he just wasn't into you, Raven.

[booboopbedoo]

Quote

I was pleasantly surprised that The Vagine didn't have a total meltdown and start stomping around Verruca Salt style telling Daddy she wants her golden egg and she wants it now! "

But she did make sure she was always looking in a camera and the tears dried up pretty fast. She was in it to be the next Bachelorette.

 

Raven- my God girl! Have you no class?? That was pure white trash talk about your sex life and lack of orgasm. Your family must be so proud of you!

[huahaha]

Funny enough, Trista also talked about her lack of orgasm to Alex Michel. Then she became the most beloved bachelorette. Maybe it does work?

[RHJunkie]

10 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Nick's reaction made me think Raven just blew her chance of getting any. He looked like he wanted to be anywhere but sitting there listening to her ramble on about god knows what because she went on so long it seems like even she forgot what she was supposed to be saying. I felt no heat at all between them. Zero. When she talks about her feelings she's very robot. And when they kissed, I'm pretty sure they literally just sat there with their lips pressed together counting in their head how long before they could separate. That was so awkward.

WTF with the one hour? WTF with the starting with rose ceremonies. And thanks for bringing back Andi to be useless. UGH I hate that smug woman.

I need to stop watching this crap. It puts me in a foul mood.

I was pleasantly surprised that The Vagine didn't have a total meltdown and start stomping around Verruca Salt style telling Daddy she wants her golden egg and she wants it now! "But he is in love with someone else, sweetie" "I don't care! Buy him for me Daddy! I want him now!!!!" She's probably already signed the contract for whatever lame show they will give her as a consolation prize.

I feel like, with this new format of randomly plopped rose ceremonies, that nothing happens. I just watched an entire hour of this show and I feel like nothing happened. It just kind of ended.

Nick is awkward and often times he finds the most uncomfortable way to respond to these women, particularly when they're confessing feelings to him. I wasn't so much reading his facial expression but how he chose to respond to Raven's confession...he handled it much better than he handled his response to Vanessa. I still see more chemistry between him and Vanessa but at the rate this show is going, it seems like it would be a modern day miracle if he and his chosen one even make it to the After the Final Rose special. Maybe he's being hesitant because he doesn't want to make the wrong choice or maybe there's a lot that's being left on the cutting room floor but based on what we do get to see, I don't see the type of all-round connection that would prompt someone to propose. He probably might choose a woman but won't propose to her.

And going back to Raven for a second - I think the show managed to give us temporary amnesia but I've since recovered. So much of a big deal was made about Raven having yet to say I love you and then it became 'OMG, Raven said I love you'....wasn't Raven the FIRST woman to drop the L word on Nick on the group date after their one-on-one? I could have sworn it was on the group date in New Orleans outside of the haunted house. They were on the bench and she was talking about something and said something to the effect 'that's when I fell in love with you'. In her confessionals she was acting all coy about the moment but then brushed it off because she was just being honest with her feelings.  Am I mixing her up with some other girl or did I make up that entire thing in my head? All the talk about needing to tell him I love him, I think I may be the only one who hasn't, I've never said it before, etc. had me rolling my eyes.

[waving feather]

13 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

They were on the bench and she was talking about something and said something to the effect 'that's when I fell in love with you'. In her confessionals she was acting all coy about the moment but then brushed it off because she was just being honest with her feelings.  Am I mixing her up with some other girl or did I make up that entire thing in my head? All the talk about needing to tell him I love him, I think I may be the only one who hasn't, I've never said it before, etc. had me rolling my eyes.

No, you got it right. That was Raven. I have always found Raven fake. That whole profession to Nick in this episode was so rehearsed and put on.

Edited February 28, 2017 by waving feather

[truthaboutluv]

11 hours ago, jade.black said:

I hated that Andi forced him to apologize for calling her out on ATFR.

He still didn't apologize for what he actually said. He remained consistent since he said it years ago - that he was sorry for the backlash and judgement she got for it. And Nick has always been adamant on that, which is why right after the ATFR in his media interviews, he stated clearly that his feeling wasn't that just because Andi slept with him meant she had to pick him.

It was how cold and unfeeling she came across to him (and she was) that left him confused as to why she would sleep with him. And he admitted that maybe he didn't articulate that as well as he could have. So he's still not sorry he said it, just sorry she got shit for it. I feel like Andi and Nick have in recent times bonded over their mutual disdain for Josh. Well actually I think Nick is more indifferent to Josh than anything else. 

Quote

I haven't watch it yet but did Raven ACTUALLY revealed that she did not have orgasm with her ex? Holy cow, there is nothing this chick won't talk about. Her lack of boundaries is scary. 

And the thing is, I feel like that might have turned Nick off really fast, if he was thinking about sleeping with her. Because as noted, now he has to think she'll probably go share in minute details everything that happened if they sleep together and two, talk about pressure - "hey this guy I was with for 2 years, only been with him, never told him I loved him and he never gave me an orgasm but after 6 wks and a handful of alone time, I'm totes in love with you and ready for you to rock my world". Um, okay then. 

As predicted, once Corinne had a HTD so viewers (and well Nick to be honest, he did seem curious) got a chance to meet the infamous Raquel, she was gone. And after a few seconds of boo-hooing, she went right back to napping. Good times. 

Whoever made the decision to stick these women on some New York rooftop in freaking Oct/Nov (based on filming schedule it would have been around that time) deserves a kick. I couldn't even appreciate any of the women's dresses because they all had to cover it up with those heavy coats. 

Well we're almost to the end and blessedly so because the producers/editors have done a hatchet job on this season in my opinion.  I don't think Nick was the issue because I don't believe he was any worse than other leads and in fact I don't think he was sleazier like some labeled him as, especially with the early season Corinne stuff.

I think, true to his being a one woman kind of guy, despite whatever narrative some have built about him and the show tries to sell, Nick was truly into one person from the start and basically kept trying with the other women because there is a show to produce. And that's what came across like he didn't connect with anyone and really isn't into anyone. Because he was really just trying with them.

And unpopular opinion perhaps but I do think that was Vanessa which resulted in the edit they've given their relationship. In my opinion, Nick was done after his and Vanessa's 1 on 1, because interestingly I noticed a lot of the over the top antics with Corinne disappeared and was toned way down right after that conversation with him and Vanessa. Yeah Corinne was kept because no way producers would get rid of her but there were no more bouncy castles, whip cream, etc. When she came to his room, he turned her down. 

After Nick and Vanessa's 1 on 1 it was obvious to most viewers that he was likely choosing her, based on the reactions around online. And after that, the editors had her pretty much vanish, even on group dates that she was a part of, you wouldn't see any conversation between them. Then when she gets a second 1 on 1, it ends on an awkward note with Nick seemingly rejecting her I Love You. Then the HTD is the "disaster" HTD that happens every season. And the preview suggests more issues on their F3 date. 

And in my opinion, it's all to sell the idea that Nick ends up picking no one or ends up alone because most people don't see the chemistry between him and Raven, we all know he eliminates Rachel at some point and Vanessa is now perceived as humorless and someone he will never be happy with if he picks her because all that's been shown in the last two episodes is them supposedly so "unhappy" with each other. But I don't buy it. I think Nick wanted Vanessa almost from the start and was likely always going to pick her and based on the number of times I've heard him describe his type, in my opinion, it makes perfect sense why she would be the one he wanted. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Alison]

8 hours ago, PhysNerd said:

Well, Raven better get used to being single.  I can't think of a guy who would want to date a woman with no sense of boundaries.  Talking about your ex boyfriend's performance in bed on tv is not okay....even if he cheated. There are some things that should remain private between couples: sex is one of those things.  If Nick is smart, he will not sleep with her because his performance (good or bad) will be broadcasted all over social media.  

Raven seems sweet, but she has a lot of growing up to do.  

If I were Nick, I wouldn't pick any of these women.  He should just marry Andi already. 

I agree that sex is something that should remain private and between couples, but when the courtship occurs on national TV, boundaries blur a bit. Sure, Raven could have advocated for her pleasure more with her ex, but the Puritanical pearl-clutching over her talking about orgasms makes me sad. We're forced to sit through commercials about erections lasting more than 4 hours, yet a woman talks about wanting her partner to satisfy her and she's suddenly white trash. I've always been fascinated by how this show and its viewers treat sex.

ETA: I really doubt Nick would be turned off by Raven's "lack of boundaries" – this is the same man who confronted Andi, again on national TV, about sleeping together.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Alison

[dleighg]

9 hours ago, clubsauce said:

After Corrine was booted, I thought it looked like she was contorting/covering her face to stifle laughter, not fight back tears.

totally agree. 

And where was the RC that was so cold outside? Looked like November in NYC but I thought this was mostly in LA?

Edited February 28, 2017 by dleighg

[b2H]

10 hours ago, jade.black said:

and also, girl, get yourself a nice vibrator

That was my dear hubby's reaction as well.  Neither one of us wanted to hear that confession on national TV.

Andi was a waste of time.  Valuable time.  Time that could've been spent doing ANYthing else than listening to her prattle on about her late 15 minutes of fame (as in, dead, dying, gone).

And what was with telling the F4 to dress in their sexiest, skimpiest gowns and then, oh by the way, bring your biggest, warmest coat, because we're going to have you stand on an outside patio/balcony for half an hour while Nick stays warm non-chatting with Andi. 

I've never been convinced that the producers are sadistic, but this one takes it to a whole other level.

Frankly, they should have done a three hour program for the new show and just shunted this week's ep into next week.  It would have been a whole lot better.