S01.E13: Three Sentences

[doodlebug]

For me, its not just a mystery what Kate is doing for money, it's a mystery why she's been out east since Thanksgiving.  She'd only worked for Jamie Gertz for a month or two, no way she would've had any vacation or time off accumulated.  Since it was her choice to leave the job, she wouldn't be eligible for unemployment, let alone severance.  Even if she had decided to have weight loss surgery on the east coast rather than in LA (once again, for no apparent reason); she wouldn't need to live there to have it done.

True confession time: had a gastric sleeve 3 years ago.  Pre-op visits including psych evaluation and dietary evaluation and counselling took a grand total of 3-4 hourlong appointments over about a 6 month period.  Although I had the surgery in my hometown, I certainly wouldn't have had to move to another city indefinitely to have it there.  For that matter, I'm sure Kate could've done the preop evaluation in LA and had the records transferred to NYC if that's what she wanted.

I really love this show, but all the glitches in logic and continuity are beginning to bug.

Edited January 26, 2017 by doodlebug

[Guest]

I think there are just a lot of generic women's hairstyles that work practically forever, or with minor tweaks.  (I wouldn't call a beehive or Farrah hair one.)  

I think the writers are hoping to curry tons of favor with the obese audience by suggesting Kate is a hottie many men can't resist.  I too balk.  Actually, I think there's a segment of men who would be totally into her physically because they're into fat women, the fatter the better, but I would consider them fetishists and be wary.   Not that there's anything wrong with fetishes but I would prefer to date men who liked me for me, not for my gorgeous feet or crazy weight or whatever unique bodily feature.

I don't know if it's aging or gaining some weight or a general trend toward retail workers or people in general being less nice, but I definitely don't get the warm reception I got by nearly all in my 20s, once I got past 40.  Or maybe it's just me and how I perceive people or the vibe of meanness I put out.  ; )

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Pre-op visits including psych evaluation and dietary evaluation and counselling took a grand total of 3-4 hourlong appointments over about a 6 month period. 

That was my biggest balk at the show... I think it's maybe January and the doctor suggested the first week of Feb. for her surgery?!?  I've always heard there is long lead time due to lots of mental and physical prep, like you said.  

[3 is enough]

Quote

I don't know if it's aging or gaining some weight or a general trend toward retail workers or people in general being less nice, but I definitely don't get the warm reception I got by nearly all in my 20s, once I got past 40.

I have noticed that since I hit 50 I have become more and more "invisible". I still get served, and more often than not people are pleasant, but as you get older it does seem that fewer people pay attention to you.  I have always been a quiet person and never really liked a lot of attention, so I can't say it really annoys me, but there is definitely a noticeable difference.

As far as the writers addressing Kate's and Toby's job situations goes, it is annoying, but at the end of the day it's a tv show.  A tv show with five major characters whose storylines have to fit into 46 minutes a week.  So they can't address every detail of their lives, although I do concede that a job is a pretty important detail.  As with most tv shows you have to suspend your disbelief.  I remember reading an article that debunked the apartments of most sitcom characters versus their tv jobs and the cities where they lived.  Interesting stuff.

There are a lot of continuity errors, but I remember the days of stand alone episodes where characters fell in love one week and the object of their desire was never seen again.  A small error here and there doesn't bug me all that much.

Edited January 26, 2017 by 3 is enough

[doodlebug]

11 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

sThat was my biggest balk at the show... I think it's maybe January and the doctor suggested the first week of Feb. for her surgery?!?  I've always heard there is long lead time due to lots of mental and physical prep, like you said.  

As a doc who performs surgeries at a major medical center, let me say that the lead time on elective major surgery tends to be 4 months or more.  You cannot just bop into a surgeon's office at Christmas and get an elective procedure scheduled that quickly, even if there wasn't extensive pre op testing and a 'cooling off' period as there is with weight loss procedures.

Edited January 26, 2017 by doodlebug

[MsChicklet]

52 minutes ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

I took HorseGuy as being predatory

THIS. A friend in another forum said he came across as totally PUA. First the "negging" then, when she thanked him, he went alpha and got up all in her personal space. Very creepy and gross.

Edited January 26, 2017 by MsChicklet

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

There are a lot of continuity errors, but I remember the days of stand alone episodes where characters fell in love one week and the object of their desire was never seen again.  A small error here and there doesn't bug me all that much.

The thing is, presuming that the intention all along was to have The Big 3 living and working in close proximity to one another, why set Kate up on the West Coast at all?  Her job working for Kevin was a very minor plot point, she could've easily been living and working in NYC or Philly or Jersey from the start.  The writers created this for no good reason, IMO, it seems very careless to me.

[memememe76]

The writers wanted to establish the close bond between Kate and Kevin early on in the series. By isolating them from the rest of the family, I think it works. It also helped with this episode between Toby and Kevin. Had Kate always been on the East Coast, how often would Kevin have seen Toby? It's not like Toby and Randall could've hung out as easily in this episode. 

[luna1122]

35 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think the writers are hoping to curry tons of favor with the obese audience by suggesting Kate is a hottie many men can't resist

Two men. Just two men. And both instances were in 'fat' places: WW and the fat camp, where all the women are fat. Of all the fat women, maybe Kate is the prettiest. It's just not mind boggling to me. But I'll stop beating the dead horse. Also, somebody needs to beat CreepyHorse guy. I agree he's predatory and presumptive and gross.

[Guest]

But they were two of the only men she's met in the little time she's been on screen and the interest was off the charts from both of them.  I would venture a guess that most women are like me-- we get that level of reaction from men maybe a couple times over our entire lives, if that, and that's if we're more conventionally attractive.

I'm not saying it's wrong to not find it odd, just that I do find it odd, like some others.  But like I say every week, very little in this show is not 'over the top'.  

[NutMeg]

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Notting Hill kind of sucks, but I'm not a rom com gal either. And I hate Julia Roberts, so there's that.

Notting Hill is weak. If you want a rom com with Hugh Grant (and sans Julia Roberts!), Four Weddings and a Funeral is vastly superior in every way - I highly recommend it even though I last saw it a long, long time ago :)

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

This Is Us Celebrates A Birthday With The Gift Of Another Big Twist

Perhaps the most shocking of all: that Kevin is more than skin deep.

[luna1122]

I do love 4 Weddings and a Funeral. I like Andie Mcdowell, but her character is also an asshole in this one, and why he's so fascinated with her is hard to fathom. But Grant and his pals are all so charming, and I like the bittersweet melancholy of it all, even when it's hilarious. I actually watched a great deal of it last week when I ran across it. I don't care for rom-coms, but that doesn't mean I haven't seen a bunch of them, for various reasons.

I probably have the same general 'do I've had for years too. It's been a lot of diff colors, but it's mostly been past shoulder length and wavy most of my life. Not sure Mandy Moore has really changed her look much in the past 15 years either. I have no real problem with Rebecca having the same hair for a lot of her life. Until she's in her 60s, apparently, and gets frumpy and lighter and wiggier.

[MsChicklet]

I don't know if Horse Guy fell for Kate. More like he's targeted her. He's been there a while, he probably recognizes those who aren't fully on-board with the place, and hits them when and where they're vulnerable. He raised a lot of red flags for me. He came across as an arrogant prick, probably a Chubby Chaser, who sees himself as the Fat Whisperer. She's a conquest.

[Ms Blue Jay]

14 hours ago, Crs97 said:

With absolutely no evidence to support this belief, in my head Toby is a decently successful small business owner, maybe a technical consultant of done type, that he can work from anywhere and create his own hours and has 1-2 employees to take the slack after his heart attack.  Again, nothing beyond my own imagination to support this, but it works for me.

Why did I think that Toby is an actor?  My imagination, based on his narcissistic personality? 

In the Hugh Grant ouevre for me it's Two Weeks Notice.  A perfect movie I've watched at least a dozen times.   Sense and Sensibility was good too.  To me, Notting Hill is depressing.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[caracas1914]

4 hours ago, Big Mother said:

2) Kevin 'loves' Sophie. Seriously? At age 10? Most ten year olds still find girls 'gross' and make fun of them. It's not normal to feel in love at age 10. Unless it was just a 'cute' friendship at age 10 which blossomed into a high school romance.

I think it's more a popular trope that boys find girls icky and gross until the magical age of adolescence/puberty. I've know a lot of  boys who "liked" girls from a young age.   Heck, some even had a facsimile of a "romantic streak" in them....THEN adolescence kicked in.

Edited January 26, 2017 by caracas1914

[Cardie]

4 hours ago, Big Mother said:

1) At the time of this birthday party, Rebecca and Jack are 46 years old

Jack is 46 but Rebecca. six years younger than Jack, is 40. Still late for child-bearing but not as late as 46.

[NutMeg]

7 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I do love 4 Weddings and a Funeral. I like Andie Mcdowell, but her character is also an asshole in this one, and why he's so fascinated with her is hard to fathom. But Grant and his pals are all so charming, and I like the bittersweet melancholy of it all, even when it's hilarious. I actually watched a great deal of it last week when I ran across it. I don't care for rom-coms, but that doesn't mean I haven't seen a bunch of them, for various reasons.

I probably have the same general 'do I've had for years too. It's been a lot of diff colors, but it's mostly been past shoulder length and wavy most of my life. Not sure Mandy Moore has really changed her look much in the past 15 years either. I have no real problem with Rebecca having the same hair for a lot of her life. Until she's in her 60s, apparently, and gets frumpy and lighter and wiggier.

Totally with you with Four Weddings etc., the bittersweet melancholy as you put it is probably what makes it work so well. All the supporting characters are really excellent - and when a still relatively unknown at the time Kristin Scott Thomas is a background character, the director is very lucky, I'd say :)

But I mostly wanted to comment on hair, and you're right, at my last school reunion a friend who cut her hair very short told me everyone met her new hair with ohs and has. I was surprised, because we have kept in touch and I'm so used to the pixie cut that replaced her long mane years ago, but she made me realize how I still have the same hair length and almost style that I had back that, and that a, b, c, ... x, y, z, all were sporting roughly the same hair lenght, so SHE was indeed the exception.

More generally, I meant to say upthread that people often get stuck in terms of hair/clothes style with the decade that marked a major step for them. I've know and seen women remaining stuck on 60s style way into the 80s, because the 60s were when they came into being their own selves rather than extensions of their family (my mom and her sisters are good examples, always so classy in a 60s way, until one went for 70s knits and orange/green and other colors in the early 80s, while another opted for unfortunate shoulder pads, and the third one, er, gave up on all style, I guess...). Luckily, after 2000, they were all back to flattering and not ancient style :)    

[Amarg4387]

On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 0:09 AM, bros402 said:

Do you think that when they kill off William, we'll learn how Jack died? Or have flashbacks to the day Jack died?

Oh my Lord, I don't think my heart could handle an episode like that. I think that is highly possible.

[Violetgoblin6]

In regard to theme parties. My sister and I and hell, well my 9 year younger  brother, grew up in the 80s. 

My sister (born 1977) had tons of friends and tons of theme parties such as a Double Dare party, a Julian Lennon party, and a Michael Jackson party. My brother had a medieval party, very similar to Kevin's, in September of 1987. There was also a Pee Wee Herman party in 1986. 

I had none (parties) really, and like Randall maybe 2 decent friends. I'm the Randall in the family (and eldest!), while my sister is definitely Kate, and my brother is basically Kevin in every respect, including looks. 

Maybe my mom was just overly ambitious and artsy??? My sister had to have the best party. She wasn't like Kate as a kid, but now she truly is, with holding things inside and addictions. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Why did I think Toby that is an actor?  My imagination, based on his narcissistic personality? 

In the Hugh Grant ouevre for me it's Two Weeks Notice.  A perfect movie I've watched at least a dozen times.   Sense and Sensibility was good too.  To me, Notting Hill is depressing.

Two Weeks Notice and Sense and Sensibility are my favorites of his, but Music and Lyrics is really good too.  Notting Hill is meh.

Hated horse guy.

I though William was going to die that day - adding a poignancy to his time with Randall. I was glad the show wasn't that predictable. 

Jack's funeral scenes were sad. 

The only unexpected thing for me this episode was the reveal of the ex-wife. I knew Kevin wasn't going to Olivia or Sloane when he went, but I didn't expect it to be an ex-wife, nor did I expect to learn she was a childhood friend.  I think it's likely they got married at 21 or 22 and were only married 3-4 years.

[Calamity Jane]

1 hour ago, caracas1914 said:

I think it's more a popular trope that boys find girls icky and gross until the magical age of adolescence/puberty. I've know a lot of  boys who "liked" girls from a young age.   Heck, some even had a facsimile of a "romantic streak" in them....THEN adolescence kicked in.

I taught 4th grade for a number of years, and there were definitely some kids who got crushes.  As with any group, there was always a wide distribution of behavior, though.  Some seemed barely more mature than 2nd graders, others were acting like the 6th graders I taught years ago.  Ten does not seem at all an unusual age for two kids to develop a crush on each other.  And, come to think of it, I can remember having an enormous crush on a boy named John Smith in 2nd grade, back in the 50's, only for it to turn to bitter antipathy by 3rd grade, when I *had* to report him to the teacher for yanking my braids all day.  So crushes at any age in any time frame are possible.   

[Violetgoblin6]

5 hours ago, marny said:

Pregnancy at 40 isn't crazy. My grandmother gave birth to her first child (my mom) at age 40 in 1946. 

As for gray hair, I'm 40 and dark-haired. but have yet to have my first gray hair (knock wood). 

Yup. My nana gave birth to my mom at age 40 in 1949. 

[caracas1914]

I would hope they would use Jack's funeral and scenes from it very sparingly or it loses impact.

The cynical in me suspects the worst.

[topanga]

On 1/24/2017 at 10:22 PM, Amethyst said:

Randall's promotion (or whatever it was) felt like manufactured drama, tbh.  He let his competitive side get the best of him and it bit him in the ass.  William is so cute, though.  He's rife with Dad humor.

I don't understand all of the specifics, but it seems like Randall's boss brought in an outside guy to work on an account that Randall wanted an opportunity to work on. It was slightly beyond Randall's level of expertise, but he felt capable of doing the work. So the boss allowed both of them to work on the math formulation (?), and he would pick the "winner." Yeah, Randall says weather. That's all I know. 

But Randall's competitive nature is what makes him good at his job, and it's what makes him as successful as he is. He doesn't seem like an asshole to his co-workers (except for the outside guy he's competing with) or his family. And his facial expressions in that office scene were the best.

I'm with other people who didn't like the way William hijacked Randall's entire afternoon. They could have had lunch, sure, but the sunglasses and the driving lesson could have waited. 

 

On 1/25/2017 at 8:20 AM, Tiger said:

I loved Beth taking a "hot minute for some yogurt", but can they please give her more than two lines per episode, or even better an actual storyline?!?  

Yes!!! More, Beth, please. Can she be in more than one scene? She's one of the only important side characters who hasn't had her own story line or backstory. Other than talking about her dad. But we only hear about him when she's talking to or about William. 

Side characters who've had their own backstories/ongoing story line:

• Toby
• William
• Jami Gertz
• Rebecca's mother
• Jack's parents
• Randall's coworker who was about to commit suicide
• Miguel
• Sloan
• Friggin' Olivia!!!

[PRgal]

27 minutes ago, Calamity Jane said:

I taught 4th grade for a number of years, and there were definitely some kids who got crushes.  As with any group, there was always a wide distribution of behavior, though.  Some seemed barely more mature than 2nd graders, others were acting like the 6th graders I taught years ago.  Ten does not seem at all an unusual age for two kids to develop a crush on each other.  And, come to think of it, I can remember having an enormous crush on a boy named John Smith in 2nd grade, back in the 50's, only for it to turn to bitter antipathy by 3rd grade, when I *had* to report him to the teacher for yanking my braids all day.  So crushes at any age in any time frame are possible.   

Ha!  I had a "boyfriend" in kindergarten!  We were yanked apart when I changed schools (there was another guy too, but he claimed I gave him cooties).  Then, I had a crush on a boy when I was in Grade 4 or 5.  So no, I'm not surprised at Kevin/Sophie.  I just didn't think it would be real because kids always say things like that. 

[sacrebleu]

I'm among those throwing a suspicious eye to the Madonna themed b-day party. Circa 1990 Madonna was just coming off the "Like a Prayer"/Pepsi (89) brou-ha-ha as well as the slightly scandalous relationship with Warren Beatty during "Dick Tracy" (90).

I'm skeptical that parents would be so meh about a Madonna party. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

In regard to theme parties. My sister and I and hell, well my 9 year younger  brother, grew up in the 80s. 

My sister (born 1977) had tons of friends and tons of theme parties such as a Double Dare party, a Julian Lennon party, and a Michael Jackson party. My brother had a medieval party, very similar to Kevin's, in September of 1987. There was also a Pee Wee Herman party in 1986. 

I had none (parties) really, and like Randall maybe 2 decent friends. I'm the Randall in the family (and eldest!), while my sister is definitely Kate, and my brother is basically Kevin in every respect, including looks. 

Maybe my mom was just overly ambitious and artsy??? My sister had to have the best party. She wasn't like Kate as a kid, but now she truly is, with holding things inside and addictions. 

Maybe it's regional.   I mean, we had parties with branded decor - for example, Barbie plates and napkins for us girls (but not at age 10.  That would be WEIRD.  Even though we still played with Barbies), but a celeb-themed party wasn't done. 

[chocolatine]

40 minutes ago, topanga said:

I don't understand all of the specifics, but it seems like Randall's boss brought in an outside guy to work on an account that Randall wanted an opportunity to work on. It was slightly beyond Randall's level of expertise, but he felt capable of doing the work. So the boss allowed both of them to work on the math formulation (?), and he would pick the "winner." Yeah, Randall says weather. That's all I know. 

But Randall's competitive nature is what makes him good at his job, and it's what makes him as successful as he is. He doesn't seem like an asshole to his co-workers (except for the outside guy he's competing with) or his family.

I saw a bit more nuance in that interaction. Walking into the meeting, Randall apologized for his "crazy" family situation, which means the boss had already noticed that Randall wasn't as focused at work as usual. The boss brought in Sanjay specifically to keep Randall on his toes; the meeting was essentially a warning to Randall. Whether Randall is actually interested in wind farms/renewable energy is not the point; he had to put himself forward for that account and give himself an aggressive deadline for working out the derivative in order to save his job. BTW, in finance a derivative is a contract; it's nothing like computing a calculus derivative.

As for Randall being an asshole to Sanjay, Sanjay started it. He humble-bragged about biking in from Brooklyn (establishing himself as an alpha-male), then "corrected" Randall about the wind farm specifics even though what Randall said was technically correct. Then when the boss made a bad joke, Sanjay laughed sycophantically whereas Randall just grimaced. Sanjay is the asshole.

Edited January 26, 2017 by chocolatine

[kili]

Kevin has been divorced from his wife for 12 years which means he was divorced at 24 and married even earlier. He married his grade school sweetheart.

Randall has been married for many years (wiki say since 1999) and I remember them saying that they had been together for many years (Beth or Randall said the number of years). That means they were probably college or even high-school sweethearts. Randall would have been 19 in 1999.

I thought Randall getting married so young was kind of odd in today's day and age (especially for people who went through college because people tend to be kind of busy and focused on classes to add marriage to the mix). But, now that I find out Kevin also got married quite early, it is even odder.

I know, lots of people get married early and have siblings that get married early and getting married at 19 in 1940 was a done thing, but I suspect that the writers are going somewhere with this. More issues from having your father die or mommy-issues or competitive issues? I expect more on this later.

Randall never has a paper out of place in his office. He's always trying to make things so perfect. That's hard to do.

[Guest]

What I didn't understand about the party story was at the end, the parents concluded that the whole 'separate parties' thing was a ploy to get Kevin next to Sophie?  I think the 'one party' style would've made that easier.   I guess not if  'one party' means 'no friends, just the five family members', but it wouldn't need to.  

Edited January 27, 2017 by Guest

[Mrs. DuRona]

5 minutes ago, kili said:

Randall has been married for many years (wiki say since 1999)

Is that confirmed somewhere on the show?  It seems out of character for both of them to marry so young, unless she was pregnant and they were "doing the right thing", and they don't have a teenage kid.  Just seems off to me.

[qtpye]

45 minutes ago, kili said:

I know, lots of people get married early and have siblings that get married early and getting married at 19 in 1940 was a done thing, but I suspect that the writers are going somewhere with this. More issues from having your father die or mommy-issues or competitive issues? I expect more on this later.

I remember Kate, in the pilot, has said her main dream in life was to have a family and be like mom and dad (specifically marry a guy like dad).

I think all the big three have romanticized their parents relationship and was eager to have that type of bond with someone early.  Rebecca and Jack do love each other very much and when Jack died, they all probably wanted to fill that void.

I read somewhere that young widowers (say guys under the age of 65) usually get remarried within two years of their wife dying.  They rush to fill the void in their lives brought by an untimely death.

Of course only Randall was successful.

[saber5055]

I see Horse Guy being introduced as a guy flirting with fat Kate to make her feel attractive, which I hope means she will dumb Toby AND Horse Guy and FINALLY develop some self esteem. Yeah, Horse Guy is creepy, but so is every smart-ass guy who has ever yelled sex things at me in the street or tried to feel me up in a bar while telling me he's "so hot" in bed. He's no creepier than horny-24/7-sex-mouth Toby. And WTH was with William barging in on Randall's workplace and guilting him into spending the day with him shopping and teaching him to drive? He couldn't have waited until COB? Either William has no idea what it's like in the corporate world, how quickly one can lose their job (which is supporting William and the family) or he's a selfish jackass who doesn't care about his son or anything else but himself. Yeah, harsh, but cancer or no, he still needs to be respectful. He wasn't going to die before 5 p.m., was he?

[theatremouse]

3 hours ago, kili said:

Randall has been married for many years (wiki say since 1999) and I remember them saying that they had been together for many years (Beth or Randall said the number of years). That means they were probably college or even high-school sweethearts. Randall would have been 19 in 1999.

I can't remember if the 1999 thing was confirmed outloud in show. And I wonder if it may be a remnant of "the pilot was shot a year earlier so 1979 turned into 1980 and the timeline is a little funky". My point there being if the 1999 thing were from the pilot, they might've meant they've been married since they were 20. While it's not a huge difference mathematically, to me somehow married at 20 is a big difference from married while teens.

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

What I didn't understand about the party story was at the end, the parents concluded that the whole 'separate parties' thing was a ploy to get Kevin next to Sophie?  I think the 'one party' style would've made that easier.   I guess not if  'one party' means 'no friends, just the six family members', but it wouldn't need to.  

"Separate parties" wasn't a ploy to get to Sophie. The Princess Bride party was a ploy to get to Sophie, but since Kate wanted a Madonna party, I imagine their off-screen-before-they-showed-up-in-the-parents-room-asking  conversation was basically coming to an impasse about having a PB party  (or whatever else) and thus they concluded they needed separate parties in order to get what they wanted. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by theatremouse

[Guest]

Ah, so the Princess Bride was to seduce Sophie?  I guess that's slightly less odd. 

I was curious about that 1999 thing.  Wikipedia cites episode 2 as the source so I rewatched any Beth/Randall scenes I found and I didn't see anything about how long they'd been together or married but I could've missed scenes.  I'm wondering if maybe they once said something about being together for 16 years and someone translated that to 'married' in their mind?  Dating since age 19 doesn't sound so odd.  

On 1/26/2017 at 3:45 PM, qtpye said:

I read somewhere that young widowers (say guys under the age of 65) usually get remarried within two years of their wife dying.  They rush to fill the void in their lives brought by an untimely death.

That's true of most divorced men I know, too.  I usually give them 3-5 years, though.  

[Violetgoblin6]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Maybe it's regional.   I mean, we had parties with branded decor - for example, Barbie plates and napkins for us girls (but not at age 10.  That would be WEIRD.  Even though we still played with Barbies), but a celeb-themed party wasn't done. 

Perhaps. I grew up in suburban Philadelphia. Actually right near "Doylestown", which is actually where I reside now. 

[Sake614]

Okay I'm 56 and don't have a single grey hair. Or wrinkles.  Or sagging skin. Some people age well, others don't. I have a friend who was grey at 20. My mom is 85 and has better skin than I do!  Before he passed, my dad, at 73, could easily pass for 60. So why would either jack or Rebecca be gray at 40 and 46 respectively? 

As for Rebecca's hairstyle, maybe she just likes the way that style looks on her. We don't all run out and get our hair cut in the latest styles. I've kept mine pretty much the same for years. I know what looks good on me and what my hair will/won't do. And she's  a stay at home mom, so that's probably just easier for her to manage.

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, kili said:

Kevin has been divorced from his wife for 12 years which means he was divorced at 24 and married even earlier. He married his grade school sweetheart.

Randall has been married for many years (wiki say since 1999) and I remember them saying that they had been together for many years (Beth or Randall said the number of years). That means they were probably college or even high-school sweethearts. Randall would have been 19 in 1999.

I thought Randall getting married so young was kind of odd in today's day and age (especially for people who went through college because people tend to be kind of busy and focused on classes to add marriage to the mix). But, now that I find out Kevin also got married quite early, it is even odder.

I know, lots of people get married early and have siblings that get married early and getting married at 19 in 1940 was a done thing, but I suspect that the writers are going somewhere with this. More issues from having your father die or mommy-issues or competitive issues? I expect more on this later.

Randall never has a paper out of place in his office. He's always trying to make things so perfect. That's hard to do.

I think it is common that siblings have similar attitudes about marriage. I know one family where 4 kids in the family got married in their mid-twenties, and 3 started having kids right away. The father had died in that family too, when they were young adults. I guess it has to do with the parent's relationship, and a couple with a great/loving relationship makes kids want to get married too. Especially if one of the parents dies young and the kids don't get a chance to recognize all their flaws (because I think when we become adults we start to see our parents differently, good and bad). 

Also, if Kevin and Randall were always competitive, and Randall got engaged young, it could have pushed Kevin to propose too.

[ShadowFacts]

I imagine having a parent die young gives a perspective that most people in their twenties don't have.  That doesn't have to translate into early marriage, but it might make the fact that life is short more real. 

[kili]

Quote

I can't remember if the 1999 thing was confirmed outloud in show. And I wonder if it may be a remnant of "the pilot was shot a year earlier so 1979 turned into 1980 and the timeline is a little funky". My point there being if the 1999 thing were from the pilot, they might've meant they've been married since they were 20. While it's not a huge difference mathematically, to me somehow married at 20 is a big difference from married while teens.

You are correct in that they didn't say they were married since 1999 (who knew wiki could be wrong? ;-).  They have been together for 17 years (in 2016) which makes them 19 when the started dating.

"Since when do we censor ourselves with each other? No, I know, it's You know, Beth, we've been together for 17 years."

I still think that we will be given more context for two brothers finding the love of their lives before they turned 20.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

As for Randall being an asshole to Sanjay, Sanjay started it. He humble-bragged about biking in from Brooklyn (establishing himself as an alpha-male), then "corrected" Randall about the wind farm specifics even though what Randall said was technically correct. Then when the boss made a bad joke, Sanjay laughed sycophantically whereas Randall just grimaced. Sanjay is the asshole.

Is this boss the same jerk who threw the bonus envelopes in the air at the Christmas party?  If so, maybe we got to see that for a reason, as in, Randall may be heading for a parting of the ways. 

[possibilities]

9 hours ago, tribeca said:

Kate is played by a talented actor and could be an interesting character.  They has to be more to her than her weight. 

I agree with this a thousand times over. I enjoyed her work story before she apparently ditched it after the holiday. I suppose they see her relationship with Toby as her secondary story. Of course, no one else is getting much beyond their main story, either: Kevin quit his job but his main story has been about his dating life. Randall has a job and a family but most of his focus has been about William, and the adoption. Jack has work, but there haven't really been any stories about that, it's just about being a dad. Rebecca was singing that one episode, but other than that it's been 100% about being a mom. So, while I personally find Kate's story about weight to be annoying, unimaginative, and a total cliche, it's no more annoying and stupid to me than Kevin's. I'm not sure why we're supposed to be interested in how Kevin struggles to choose between the various potential love interests. I was much more interested in both Kevin and Kate when they were struggling to grow up and become adults who function separately from each other. Kate making her way at work, and Kevin learning to handle his life without Kate on call was a story I appreciated. But they've pretty much dropped both of those for "hot guy can't figure out who he loves" and "fat woman struggles with her weight and has emotional problems which cause her to be fat" which are both stories I either find boring or objectionable or both.

I thought they were going to show us flashbacks that showed how the two of them became so codependent, since so far there has been NOTHING in the flashbacks that showed the two of them even interacting one on one. It's all been about Kate/Rebecca/weight, Kevin/Randall but none of the other sibling combinations.

Re hair: I'm 51 and have dark brown hair with exactly 3 grey hairs. I like them, so I let them be, but they'd be easy to get rid of if I wanted to, and they're not very noticeable unless you're looking for them. No dye involved. I think greying is like male pattern baldness- some guys start shedding in their 20s, others don't til much later, if ever.

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, possibilities said:

I thought they were going to show us flashbacks that showed how the two of them became so codependent, since so far there has been NOTHING in the flashbacks that showed the two of them even interacting one on one. It's all been about Kate/Rebecca/weight, Kevin/Randall but none of the other sibling combinations.

 

Responding in the Speculation Thread....

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

3 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

Perhaps. I grew up in suburban Philadelphia. Actually right near "Doylestown", which is actually where I reside now. 

Lol, I grew up in NE Philadelphia and Bucks County and live in Doylestown now!

[Portia]

Kevin. Dude. That is NOT how commas work.

Sincerely yours, An English Teacher

[OtterMommy]

11 minutes ago, Portia said:

Kevin. Dude. That is NOT how commas work.

Sincerely yours, An English Teacher

That is also not how parenthesis work.

Edited January 27, 2017 by OtterMommy
I figured I'd better use actual sentence structure since I was replying to an English teacher.

[sasha206]

The thing that bugs me most about this show is how over-the-top being in love is.  I mean, now we have a 10 year old that is so in love wit!h Sophie, he ends up marrying her, getting divorced, and years later shows up on her doorstep with a grand gesture?

Toby meets Kate for 5 seconds and he's rolling out the red carpet and is engaged months later after it seems like they've only been on a few dates before they break up for 5 seconds and then get engaged.

Jack wants to freeze time instead of one fucking day of golf with the boys, and this is directly after his very hormonal wife forgets his birthday and wants him the hell out of the house.

Dr. Folksy was so in love with his late wife that he's planning to kill himself!

And so on and so on.  Yeah, I know it's basically a sappy soap but I'd actually like to see a more realistic portrayal of men and love.  Instead, the men in this show seen to act like giddy school girls.

Edited January 27, 2017 by sasha206

[SueB]

Age info:
- The kids were 8 in "The Pool" (Jack mentioned it and the credits also say "8 yr old Kate, etc..." - I have the show on iTunes, which I think is more reliable than IMdB.
- In "The Pool", little Kate calls out to "Vicky and Samantha", the camera pans to two girls, and these little actresses are in the credit.  The "Sofie" is NOT in the credits although there are clearly 3 girls.  It's entirely possible that they cast 10-yr old Sophie later.
- As others have said, the actors are the "15 yr old" actors from "The Best Washing Machine In the World"
- Jack was dead in 2006. In "The Game Plan", Kate explains to Toby that she used to watch the games with her Dad

Quote

KATE: I used to watch the Steelers with my dad. Right? Every single Sunday, until I grew up and.... I moved out here and I just got out of the habit. It wasn't until the 2006 AFC Championship when they played the Broncos. Do you remember? 
TOBY: No
KATE: Okay. Anyway, I wanted to watch 'em with my dad. (chuckles) And I did. And they won. And then they won the Super Bowl. And I just... It's just-just what I do now. I watch the Steelers and... I watch 'em with my dad.

 

emphasis mine.  She's glossing over her dad's death here. 

She watched the 2006 AFC Championship with her dad's urn.  She had stopped watching the Steelers but once they made it to the Championship, she dragged out the urn and watched it with her dad.  They won the Super Bowl and now it's obviously half nostalgia and half lucky charm. 

I suspect, in addition to being a major trauma for Kate and her weight, everyone had other big life changes.  In the category of "before and after" (that the producers keep emphasizing).  "Before" they were a family unit.  "After" they clearly had issues. BOTH Randall and Kevin married early (why am I not surprised.... these guys need to get a freakin' ruler and just STOP NOW).  Rebecca marries Miguel (and I suspect sooner rather than later).  
- Kevin/Sophie timeline: "In love" at age 10, married young, divorce occurs for whatever reason by 24, Kevin moves to the West Coast and becomes a "star", 12 years later, he's back east.

It's possible that Sophie is a former source of trouble with Kate but Kevin/Kate are SO CLOSE. I just don't see either of them letting it continue to be a major problem for long.  There may be flames at the start (or not, I hope not), but I have faith in Kevin/Kate. 

Regarding Kate's focus on weight:
- Overshare time: My mother took me to a psychologist at age 8 to have me hypnotized so I wouldn't eat so much.  So, I project ALL OVER Kate.  She is me.  And my "baby fat" was a bread addiction that my loving Daddy would feed.  He hung the moon for me and died when I was 12.  See how EASY it is for me to project onto Kate?  Which leads me to the following: Not a day goes by that isn't about my weight.  I'm working and highly successful in my job but my weight dominates my existence.  I'm a woman, I multi-task easily.  And if I'm not ACTIVELY invested in my weight situation, I'm actively avoiding it.  So, no. If Kate's story is remotely realistic, one break-through at the camp is not going to be "it".  And her weight will dominate her existence for the rest of her life.  Even if she loses the bulk of the weight, she will never be free of the impact her relationship with food has on her existence.  It's something they teach you at those $10,000/month camps.  Trust me. 

[twoods]

You guys are lucky! I had gray hair at 30 and it has exponentially increased with children. I don't even care anymore, even if my 80 year old coworker points it out. 

Just a glimpse of Jack's funeral had me in tears- seeing how young they were was heartbreaking. I care too much about these TV characters.

Jack continues to shine with the kids. It may just be my Milo crush but he get better with every episode.

Nice twist with Kevin trying to get back together with his ex wife. I thought their flashbacks were cute. This show really does interweave the flashbacks and current storyline so well. When Kate had all those flashbacks and screamed, I cried again. Damn show is making me dehydrated. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

9 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

I'm skeptical that parents would be so meh about a Madonna party. 

I was born in '82 and my mother was so into True Blue.  She got me hooked on Madonna then and we never looked back since.  I'm so glad, too.  In some ways, my mom can be so conservative and she has some backward thinking on women (in my opinion) but she's always admired this feminist icon and got me to admire her too.