S04.E03: The Final Problem

[saber5055]

I couldn't have hated this episode more. I've loved the entire Sherlock series ... until last night. There was nothing redeeming about this episode and so much was so stupid and not even logical. I even had to turn over to watch some PBS cooking shows to get away from it, it was so horrid IMO. If this was indeed The Final Problem, then I'm good with that. I couldn't take any more of the dreck shown last night. RIP show I used to love.

[dwarmed]

Saw + The Ring + Silence of the Lambs + every other horror/psych thriller cliche = Officially out of ideas. Should have ended at three, show.

[saber5055]

I kept wishing Sherlock or SOMEONE would have taken that loaded gun and just freaking shot Eurus, because that's what I would have done. The show would have only been maybe 30 minutes, but it would have ended MY suffering. Watching this episode that lasted FOREVER was my own personal torture.

[statsgirl]

10 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

If Mary had been in the cell with the Governor, I'm pretty sure she would have taken the shot, no problem!

This is why Mary had to die two episodes ago.  Not just wrt the cell scene, but she would have been slicing all through the mess that was this episode like a hot knife through butter if she had still been alive

4 hours ago, tanita said:

What I like about this episode is that it basically showed that Sherlock was a normal bright sociable child. His sociopathic tendecies were in direct result of trauma that stunted his emotional growth.

That doesn't make sense.  I mean it does in terms of what the episode was spinning but it doesn't make sense in terms of real world psychology. If Sherlock's parents were loving (and we were given every indication that they were) before and after the trauma, he wouldn't have turned from a sociable child into a sociopath.

4 hours ago, Mari said:

 It's supposed to be impossible to hypnotize someone into doing something that is against their basic beliefs/self.  It would make sense that he'd break out of the spell.

Actually, there are hypnosis studies that show that if you present a situation in which the activity makes sense, you can make a person do something they wouldn't do ordinarily.

That one of the big problems with this episode -- that it presented a study of twisted psychology instead of a mystery but the psychology was all wrong and so it ended up just smoke and mirrors.

[ohjoy]

4 hours ago, tanita said:

IDK, this episode was mid-range in quality in my book. I'm shocked so many people hate it, but as they say "de gustibus non est disputandum".  If I had to rank them all :

A  Scandal in Belgravia (2.01)

The Reichenbach Fall (2.03)

The Sign of the Three (3.02)

The Lying Detective (4.02)

The Final Problem (4.03)

His Last Vow (3.03)

The Great Game (1.03)

A Study in Pink (1.01)

The Abominable Bride (4.00)

The Hound of Baskerville (2.02)

The Empty Hearse (3.01)

The Six Thatchers (4.01)

The Blind Banker (1.02)

This is a pretty good list -- I'd move "The Final Problem" below "The Great Game" and "The Empty Hearse" above "The Abominable Bride", but otherwise it seems right.

 

Weirdly, reading through here, both positive and negative comments, is pointing out more of what I liked about the episode. Guess I'm just looking for the positive and nostalgic about this apparent send-off.

2 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

Sherlock's sweet nod to Mrs. Hudson to leave the room and both his and John's smile when she told Mycroft to make his own tea.

The John stays because he's family line.

These are the little things I keep going back to. It may not have been a great episode, but these moments always leave me wanting more adventures. I'd be totally fine with a random Christmas episode brought to us every two or three years that was simply Sherlock and Watson just being who they are and solving crimes (along with Mrs. Hudson, Lestrade, Molly, and yes, Mycroft).

[tanita]

Psychology isn't an exact science. You can have people be children of an alcoholic - because of that some will not take a sip of alcohol in their life while others will repeat the same patters as their parents. Can you really determine which will be which in early childhood ? A trauma effects everyone differently, most people will react in a predictable way, but not all.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[teddysmom]

(Which I guess is pretty bad, but nowhere near as bad as killing an actual dog. Signed, a childless dog owner.)

Childless dog owner here and I got teary eyed when Mycroft was telling Sherlock the (made up) story of the dog being killed. Remember when Duchovny said about killing a dog on X Files "we kill 5-10 people a week and no one blinks an eye. Kill one little Pomeranian and all hell breaks loose".

[David T. Cole]

Test

[festivus]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

That doesn't make sense.  I mean it does in terms of what the episode was spinning but it doesn't make sense in terms of real world psychology. If Sherlock's parents were loving (and we were given every indication that they were) before and after the trauma, he wouldn't have turned from a sociable child into a sociopath.

I've never thought that Sherlock was a sociopath even though that's what he claimed to be. I've never believed him from the first time he said it. Dysfunctional, sure. Sociopath, no.

Edited January 16, 2017 by festivus

[Chaos Theory]

Ha! Mary had to die because she'd have shot the guy without a second thought.  Ok THAT makes sense.  She also would have Rambo'd her way through the prison/asylum instead of playing stupid kid games.

Now I want to see that!!!!!

Edited January 16, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[tanita]

3 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Ha! Mary had to die because she'd have shot the guy without a second thought.  Ok THAT makes sense.  She also would have Rambo'd her way through the prison/asylum instead of playing stupid kid games.

Now I want to see that!!!!!

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAH !!!!!

You know what, I think I wanna see that too, Rambo makeup and all. She just shooting up the place while the other 3 just stood there silent and impotent.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[Mumbles]

Ugh. I loved the first seasons of this series,  but beginning with The Empty Hearse (the ep beginning with everyone theorizing how/whether Sherlock survived the jump off the building) the series took on a very smug, self-congratulatory tone. The little puzzles were gone, replaced with episodes involving a Big Baddie identified early in the ep. Feh.

[jeansheridan]

Quote

we kill 5-10 people a week and no one blinks an eye. Kill one little Pomeranian and all hell breaks loose".

When did they kill Scully's dog????  

I guess I have a strong suspension of disbelief because when Mycroft says that Euros is able to hypnotize people into doing her will, I was like, okay, I can buy that.  The actress had enough charisma to pull off that conceit.  It's a bit like believing in Mary's super-assassin awesomeness.  Is she credible?  Yep, especially in the Abdominal Bride.  

Here are the details I love.  Sherlock and Watson play a nasty joke on Mycroft in the teaser and it's amusing because they make Mycroft look a bit foolish and it's John's idea.   Then Euros does the same on a grand scale and kills at least six people and no more joke.  And Sherlock and Euros kind of want the same thing.  They want to get an authentic reaction out of their sibling but they don't mind humiliating them a bit (or a lot) to get it.  

I love that we get both Mary and Moriarty on screens, talking to them from beyond the grave.  I didn't appreciate Mary's last message at first but when you think of all the faces on screens it was nice to end with her.  I must admit I kept expecting Mary to be less important, more of a support character, but clearly the writers saw her as part of the core.  It wasn't a Mycroft/Sherlock/Watson triad, but a four-legged stool.  If I accept that, then the ending feels more appropriate, giving her the final word. 

A few people said they would prefer the show just to be mysteries but people rarely put Season 1 Ep 2  (Banker something) and the Hound of Baskervilles as their favorite episodes.  Those are the two most overtly mystery episodes with minimal connection to the larger story arc.  I like Hound quite a bit but it felt like a throwaway.  

I wouldn't mind a near stand-alone in the near future.  Age up Rosie to 5 or 6 years old.  John can be a single dad on the dating scene (and being a father might explain why he hasn't found a serious relationship again.  My divorced friends often wait til their kids are older).  Sherlock is the same of course, just healthier and maybe tougher now he knows his own history.  Bring back The Woman and let it be a heist. Let let it be about money.   I'd watch that.  

[tanita]

7 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

When did they kill Scully's dog????  

 

The American Loch Ness monster episode. I think an alligator eat him. It's been so long since I watched The X Files.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[tankgirl73]

3 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Sherlock and Watson play a nasty joke on Mycroft in the teaser and it's amusing because they make Mycroft look a bit foolish and it's John's idea.   Then Euros does the same on a grand scale and kills at least six people and no more joke.  And Sherlock and Euros kind of want the same thing.  They want to get an authentic reaction out of their sibling but they don't mind humiliating them a bit (or a lot) to get it.  

Oooh that actually is pretty good!

[tanita]

I'd love for them to bring back The Woman in season 5. It doesn't even have to be a "romance" plotline (I doubt that would even work, any normal looking romance is beyond those two), just their cat&mouse interaction is enough to make a good episode. A Scandal in Belgravia is my absolute favorite Sherlock episode - no contest, probably one of my favorite episodes of TV of all time.

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[chrisvee]

Such a shockingly romantic ending in some ways.  Sherlock and John find in each other the perfect partner who can bear the other's flaws and heal the other's wounds -- and they get to raise a baby together to boot!  All without any messy sex getting in the way. :)

The Mary DVD felt somewhat like overkill since everything she said is something we've already seen. The last montage would have been stronger without it.

Presumably if the show does return it can be purely detective story focused since John and Sherlock are now 'matured'.

[IWantCandy71]

17 hours ago, magdalene said:

Was the show always this pretentious

After season one, yes, it became very pretentious. I will say I will likely check out this series because of the good Mycroft stuff, but I'm officially over the show as a whole. Someone re-posted Mark's comments on Twitter from a few years ago about "go and read a children's book if you can't handle something complicated." Now, I just have a bad taste in my mouth about the whole lot of them. I was reading adult mystery and spy novels in grade school. I can handle complicated,  thank you, Mr.Gatiss. What I can't deal with is sloppiness and plot holes. Learn the difference.

Edited January 16, 2017 by IWantCandy71

[johntfs]

Maybe we'll see Euros come back next series in, oh, I don't know, 2020 or so.  Maybe love will be in the air.  Euros is single.  John is single.  John is attracted to psychopaths.  Euros is attracted to being a psychopath.  I sense the possibility for twu wuv....

[tanita]

Well, at this point, she is as close as he is going to get to a Holmes in the bedroom. :p Who knows, if Sherlock sees them together he may finally realize that John was only ever meant for him,...../sarcasm

And John really does attract the psychos.

If I were Moffat/Gatiss I'd go full tilt and just do my own version of those original Basil Rathbone stories - go full Batman/James Bond  ;)

Edited January 16, 2017 by tanita

[fourPLUSseven]

Dense is the word I've landed on to best describe this finale. Perhaps producers could have split this in two for ease of digestion. I will watch again when we get a dvd version.

It could take three or mmee viewings for me understand all on the screen.

Also, should we get S5, I would much rather wait 2 years for something grand that satisfies our doubts.

[Mama No Life]

1 hour ago, tanita said:

The American Loch Ness monster episode. I think an alligator eat him. It's been so long since I watched The X Files.

Queequeq, right?

Interesting that the XF came up in this...another show that wrapped up--a bit beyond it's expiration date-- and still has managed to return in different ways.  Hopefully this will happen with Sherlock...as long as all the originals return.

[pcta]

I was totally enrapt for the entire episode.  Thought it was positively brilliant.  Perhaps not Holmes but most definitely Sherlock.  

[tennisgurl]

So, basically, Sherlock turned out to be the normal Holmes kid, right? Sad but true? 

Euros Holmes basically is a Bad Seed who ends up in Azkaban who also has the powers of Kilgrave from Jessica Jones and runs her own Saw story line. Sure, show, alright then. As for this episode, it really does seem to be a series finale, even if its not something they've planned out. They had the big finale monologue by Mary, Sherlock making peace with his past and being in a good place with the people in his life, and ending on And the Adventure Continues for Sherlock and John. It seems like this is the ending of the show, and...it wasn't the best episode or the one that made the most sense, but I am alright of this is how it ends. They certainly left enough open for another season, but this seems like a closing chapter to me. And they could have ended worse. That being said..

The whole episode seemed like a forgettable episode of Criminal Minds, with the big scary villain rambling on about moral relativism and how good and evil mean nothing and blah blah blah and we`ve heard all of this from a million villains a million times, and it just came off as boring and confusing. I didn't hate it as much as other people do, mainly because I`m a sucker for Sherlock/John/Mycroft interaction, but a lot of it was just ridiculous. I can see where they were going with this, and what they wanted to do here to wrap all this up, it just did not work. It was weird. Just...weird.

That all being said, I do like giving more backstory to the Holmes family, and more context to Sherlock and his issues. It seems like he was a pretty normal, sweet little kid at some point, than his sister murdered his best friend and he wiped it all out of his mind to help himself stay somewhat sane, and he became the high functioning sociopath we all know and love. Its interesting to wonder how this happened with Sherlock, and it makes you wonder why the hell his parents decided to let him think that his best friend was his dog and his sister never existed, when they should have really sent the poor kid to therapy ASAP. If they did that, maybe he would have turned out to be a somewhat normal guy. Maybe closer to who he is now, who is WAY different than the guy we met in the first season. He can still be blunt and an asshole, but he clearly cares about people, both the people he knows personally, but also people at large. I dont really think he is a sociopath at all, just a really messed up person who has never dealt with what happened to him as a kid.

Mycroft had a lot to do in this episode, so I was happy about that. Lots of good acting here, which is probably the saving grave of this whole episode. The actors have just so committed to this, that I even buy this bullshit with an omnipresent super villain who can do anything and can control everyone because...no idea. I really dont get how her middle school nihilism rambling can get a janitor to listen to her for more than a few that minutes, let alone highly educated supervisors who she can totally control. Whatever. Just give her super powers and be done with it, it would make more sense.

So, there was stuff here I liked. Sherlock calling Lestrade Greg for the first time, the scene with Molly, the acting, the atmosphere, Sherlock and Mycroft and their relationship and how they secretly care about each other, it had good stuff. But, it had good parts, but no whole. Which is too bad. This show could do better.   

[pancake bacon]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Lots of good acting here, which is probably the saving grave of this whole episode.

"Saving Grave" is my new favorite malaprop phrase that I am determined to use in real life. 

It also describes what has happened to Sherlock as the series/seasons progressed. The show's (now obnoxious) cleverness has made the show DEAD.

Also, that recap by Nick Rheinwald-Jones would just not quit the funny! I loved it more than this episode. (Though that's not a hard thing to do.)

[tennisgurl]

Just now, pancake bacon said:

"Saving Grave" is my new favorite malaprop phrase that I am determined to use in real life. 

Damn it! I thought I had fixed all my typos! I would change it, but now...I kind of like it how it is. Its a pretty apt metaphor for the whole show, now that I think about it. 

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

After season one, yes, it became very pretentious. I will say I will likely check out this series because of the good Mycroft stuff, but I'm officially over the show as a whole. Someone re-posted Mark's comments on Twitter from a few years ago about "go and read a children's book if you can't handle something complicated." Now, I just have a bad taste in my mouth about the whole lot of them. I was reading adult mystery and spy novels in grade school. I can handle complicated,  thank you, Mr.Gatiss. What I can't deal with is sloppiness and plot holes. Learn the difference.

This. I too have been reading adult books since grade school - I even started off with true crime. Since I mostly watch shows and don't seek out the media regarding the shows, I didn't know Gatiss was such a smug ass. I knew Moffit was terrible - I stopped watching Doctor Who because I was fed up with the way it treated companions once he took over. But I'd liked Sherlock so I kept watching.

I hated this episode. I've like the show from the get-go, and even enjoyed the episodes most people seemed to have disliked. But pretty much from the get-go, I knew this was a self-indulgent piece of crap (in my opinion). I kept watching hoping it would turn into something coherent. There's two hours I'll never get back again. If there's another season, I won't be watching.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Clanstarling

[MisterGlass]

I came across an end of Season 4 article on Den of Geek US about Sherlock undermining its own realism, and it sounds about right to me.

I'm surprised there is so much dislike for the Hound of the Baskervilles.  I really enjoyed that one.

Glad to know I'm not the only one who hasn't been watching Doctor Who.

[TomServo]

9 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

Not trying to be THAT person, but they actually didn't resolve the MASH chicken thing in one half hour episode...it was the series finale, either 90 or 120 minutes (i can't remember off-hand) and the fact that Hawkeye couldn't deal with the tragedy put him in a mental hospital for much of the episode.   So closer than you even realized. :)

No problem, but to be fair, the two hours on M*A*S*H involved multiple repressed memories (not just the chicken) and storylines for other characters, as well.

So between the previews, the show itself, and the aftershow, I've seen that explosion four or five times now and haven't made it through a viewing yet without laughing out loud at how ridiculously Jib-Jab Watson's head is.

Edited January 17, 2017 by TomServo

[Peace 47]

One last thing that made me sad about this episode is that I know everybody watches this show for different reasons, but I just have always really enjoyed how the characters of John and Sherlock played off of each other, whether they were giggling over silliness in Buckingham Palace, or bickering in 221B over hiding Sherlock's cigarettes, or going on the run while handcuffed together--I always found their interactions quite compelling, but this episode,  they didn't have much of a chance to bounce off of each other, one-on-one.  I mean, it's clear that they were pretty much rock-solid after last week's cathartic breakdown in that they weren't at odds, but they were a triad with Mycroft for most of the episode and being brutally psychologically tortured, so, you know, not quite the opportunity for some nice, funny or compelling teamwork moments of "just the two of them against the rest of the world."

[SueB]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, basically, Sherlock turned out to be the normal Holmes kid, right? Sad but true? 

Ahh the irony of this.  I really liked that element.

Honestly, I hope it's NOT the last but I certainly think they wrapped it up nicely if it was.  "Redbeard" has been around for several seasons now.  I'm glad we got the backstory.  

 

BTW: Does this mean that only Mycroft is still a virgin?  Interesting.

[jeansheridan]

Quote

So, basically, Sherlock turned out to be the normal Holmes kid, right? Sad but true? 

Pretty much because he has actual friends in the real world with more typical jobs.  Even the junkie/chemist dude from season three was reasonably "normal".  

I think about Mycroft saying as early as Season Two that sentiment was not an advantage.  And Sherlock and Mycroft giving each other crap for being cut off from normal humans at the beginning of Season 3.  I think Euros and all her characteristics were earned.  Calling John and Trevor Sherlocks's pets which echoes Moriarty and Mycroft.  Teasing Sherlock for being a virgin (some old data there, chickie, since I think Sherlock indicated he had had relations of some sort in Belgravia.  Mycroft teased him and Sherlock corrected him and I don't see Sherlock lying about something like that.  I just wish, I still wish, that John's John-ness  had been more overtly useful.  I will miss Martin Freeman in this role quite a bit too.  Cumberbatch does variations of Sherlock (I loved Dr. Strange, but he's Sherlock with an American accent and a good cape instead of a good coat).  Freeman will probably never have such a great showcase for his ability to play decent, kind men who are also effective.  He made The Hobbit bearable, but only when he was onscreen.  

[catrox14]

i had the impression that Mycroft had a thing going with the spy lady from Ep 4.2

[jeansheridan]

Quote

i had the impression that Mycroft had a thing going with the spy lady from Ep 4.2

 

Definitely.  I suspect Mycroft has a very specifically kinky side to him that he keeps VERY well suppressed.  But I think he has sex too.  It would be very careful and not emotional.  Certainly not with prostitutes because that could compromise him.  Just very careful interactions over the years.  Asexual men of a certain age are suspicious.  He wouldn't want to stand out in that way.  

[Mom x 3]

There were parts I liked, and parts I didn't. 

I liked the beginning where Sherlock and John fooled Mycroft, but I hated how smug John was about it.  He has always stood up to Mycroft, but was he always such a dick?

I didn't believe for a minute Mycroft would be stupid enough to allow Moriarty in with Euros for an unsupervised five minutes.  Wouldn't happen in a million years.  I think they tried to show it being a result of Mycroft's hubris, but I was unconvinced.  

Still not sure where Mrs. Hudson gets her animosity for Mycroft, but her line about the tea was funny.

Loved Sherlock saying John was family.

The actress playing Euros was great, but yea, no way she could entrance people within minutes.

When Mycroft was describing how he was remarkable and Euros was genius, I got a flashback to Simon Tam describing his sister River.  With the Saw/Bond/Silence of the Lambs similarities it's almost as if the writers just picked their favorite parts of their favorite shows and threw them all in this script. 

Explosion scene was stupid.  

Hated the ending where all they had to do was show the special snowflake some love and everything is all better.  Girl needed a bullet to the brain.  

Although Mary's monologue did wrap things up, I didn't like it.  It made no sense that she would have made another video.  And at the end she states Sherlock Holmes and Dr. John Watson.  Wouldn't she have mentioned her husband first?

I hope they are done, as I had my hoped up after season three, but I don't want to see how much worse it can get.

[shrewd.buddha]

The psychological torture in the bunker went on for far too long. 

I just could not buy into these plot points:

• Sherlock doesn't know he is alergic to dogs?
• Who created the fake gravestones? The five year old sister?

After years of dealing with psychopaths, shouldn't  Sherlock immediately consider that the girl on the plane scenario was a fake? Even we , the audience, would have been very skeptical - - except for the fact that the PtB completely cheated by literally showing us a real girl  on a real plane. That's a dick move, storytelling-wise.

Edited January 17, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[tankgirl73]

How did Mary know ahead of time to get that video to them exactly then? And how was it pulled off, that they wouldn't discover it until now? A fair bit of time has passed since she died. If they'd found this video when they were estranged, it wouldn't have had at all the same meaning. Who sits there and records sappy monologues like that just in case some day they die?

[tankgirl73]

1 minute ago, shrewd.buddha said:

The psychological torture in the bunker went on for far too long. 

I just could not buy into these plot points:

• Sherlock doesn't know he is alergic to dogs?
• Who created the fake gravestones? The five year old sister?

After years of dealing with psychopaths, shouldn't  Sherlock immediately consider that the girl on the plane scenario was a fake? Even we , the audience would have been very skeptical = = except for the fact that the PtB completely cheated by literally showing us a real girl  on a real plane. That's a dick move, storytelling=wise.

It's their father who was allergic to dogs. That's why they weren't allowed to have one.

I think the graves had been there for ages and ages, it's one of the reasons they all loved the house. Weirdness seems to run in the family. I'm not sure that the gravestones themselves were fake, just that the dates were (deliberately, for whatever reason) wrong.

But, yeah, Sherlock should have at least suspected the plane was fake. A girl that age not knowing at all where they were travelling to and from? (Okay she was traumatized but still). And many other "but how" oddities...

[Peace 47]

Nevermind.  Question already answered!

Edited January 17, 2017 by Peace 47

[Mari]

48 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Definitely.  I suspect Mycroft has a very specifically kinky side to him that he keeps VERY well suppressed.  But I think he has sex too.  It would be very careful and not emotional.  Certainly not with prostitutes because that could compromise him.  Just very careful interactions over the years.  Asexual men of a certain age are suspicious.  He wouldn't want to stand out in that way.  

I . . . um . . . I . . . just figured that Mycroft's "noir" movie was a very specialized type of porn. Did anyone else have that impression, or was it just me?

[buttersister]

Quote

And so the moral of the story is: Deal with your shit and then you can get on with your life?...Feel free to reboot them all back to solving mysteries, Mofftiss

Ok, I wrote that before I read the Buzzfeed article last night (in which Mofftiss---one of them---says they'd been bringing the Holmes/Watson backstory and now they were up to date (kind brilliant detective/nice smart-sidekick widower) and they could just do mysteries now. I'm still in if Ben and Martin are.

Also I'm grateful for my new mantra: When life gets too strange, too impossible, too frightening, there is always one last hope," ... "When all else fails, there are two men arguing in a scruffy flat, like they've always been there, and they always will. ... Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson."

Edited January 17, 2017 by buttersister

[Pattycake2]

Whew!  I'm glad that's over!  I totally missed it last night when my PBS put Victoria on at Sherlock time.  Then, after setting it up for a 4 am recording, my dvr cut off a half hour early and I had to finish watching it on PC.  With all the Moffat/Gatiss people are going to hate the ending thingy, I was sure they were going to kill off one of my faves.  Thrilled and relieved they didn't.  The phrase "there is a fine line between genius and madness" (thank you Oscar Levant) is actually thought to be true this days due to some gene or whatever.  Euros was a super genius and became a super madwoman.   

Hey, at least Molly got to hear Sherlock say I Love You.  Shamelessly, I'd do a lot to hear those words from Sherlock/Benedict.  LOL    So, when did Mary become Earth Mother Mary, the epitome of maternal wisdom?  Moffat made her a mercenary for hire who killed people in cold blood for money.   You can't have it both ways, Moffat!  And yes, I always say that name in a low, disgusted tone similar to "Newman".

Go forth Sherlock, Watson and crew and solve mysteries the way you are supposed to!  God Speed!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

23 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

  11 hours ago, Charlesman said:

So anyone who spends five minutes alone with Eurus should be considered compromised, yet, no one questions the motivation of Watson, who has voluntarily subjected himself to unknown hours of psychological manipulation by her? OK. 

Did they deprogram all the Sherrinford employees who were in thrall to Eurus?  And who really knows who else came to visit her?  How could anyone ever trust any of those people again?

Edited January 17, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[kaygeeret]

I just got seriously bored with all the 'challenges'

Reminded me of logic problems with no resolution or a trick ending that left you losing regardless.

Yet, as always the acting somehow draws me back and I did pay attention the last 30 minutes or so.

We always knew Holmes x two, Watson and assorted others are not going to die, so most of the epi was a snore.

Never thought I would say that.

[penguinnj]

It has taken me all day to pin dow the memory, but I got it.  The line about "you told yourself a better story" and the whole rewriting of your memories has, as been pointed out, done in MASH.  But it was also done in the House storyline- it was at the end of a season- when House hallucinates Amber and that he spent the nigh with Cuddy.  

[Happytobehere]

Given the all powerful, all-controlling power of Eurus, I'm surprised there was no revealed that she somehow asterminded the events that cause Mary's death, or a reveal that Mary was one of Eurus' emotional puppets and all aspects of her relationship with John and friendship with Sherlock and her ultimate demise was not some grand scheme of Eurus'.

To me the biggest question raised and left unaddressed was, "What is up with the gene pool of the Holmes parents?"  Sherlock and Eurus are murdering sociopaths. Mycroft is only slightly better due to his distaste for getting his hands dirty.  Mycroft knows what the monster is capable of and indulges her for personal gain in the guise of helping the realm.  Sherlock knows what the monster is capable of and goes to visit her and play the violin apparently for shittzandgiggles.

Add me to the list who felt that what was done with Molly was awful.  Could she have been made more wretched and pathetic? Are we to conclude that what we glimpsed of her at home is how Molly lives, in a perpetual state of depression and despair because Sherlock doesn't give her a reason to live?

As others have noted, this season was about shock value and upping the ante.  There was no real intellect or planning that was given the proper follow through.  It seems as if the show has run out of steam.  If this is the best a multi-year break produces, I can't imagine the length of the break that would be needed to correct this mess.

[futurechemist]

Mary's speech at the end seemed like it was lifted from Doctor Who.  "For people with nowhere else to turn, there 'are 2 men in a scruffy flat' / 'a madman in a box'.  Didn't River Song say something like that to the Doctor about the noise the TARDIS makes?

Is it plagiarism if Moffett is taking his own lines?

[penguinnj]

1 minute ago, futurechemist said:

Is it plagiarism if Moffett is taking his own lines?

There are a lot of those- honestly.  Euros to Sherlock "It's make your mind up time."  Toby Jones/Culverton Smith (this time playing the Dream Lord in Amy's Choice) to the Doctor "It's make your mind up time."

[penguinnj]

27 minutes ago, Happytobehere said:

Sherlock knows what the monster is capable of and goes to visit her and play the violin apparently for shittzandgiggles.

I think he is trying to teach her to possibly tie emotion to the music- remember that she can't tell if the music is beautiful, only if it is right.  It's fuzzy, but I think this is supposed to give her some sort of emotional outlet, but he has to teach her how to do it.  As to the why, who knows?  Pressure from mom?  I think Sherlock would still admire that brilliant mind- as he called it- that came up with the perfect metaphor for her and try to reach it.

[ohjoy]

I thought it was simply that he wanted to give her what he could/did not before: time. Eurus' whole ritual/riddle was for Sherlock to discover that she wanted him to spend time with her. He didn't figure it out in time to save Victor, but he did in time to save John. She had to be locked up again (clearly), and she was no longer talking, but Sherlock could still give her time, and someone to "play" with. (When he first broke in to visit her, one of guards said she played all the time.)

I really liked those scenes in the ending montage, culminating in the whole family being able to enjoy Sherlock and Eurus' music. Such a screwed up, traumatized family, finding a little moment of something akin to normalcy. (Yeah, I know who caused most of the trauma in the first place, but as a potentially series-ending montage it was sweet.)