S04.E03: The Final Problem

[QuantumMechanic]

13 hours ago, Charlesman said:

So anyone who spends five minutes alone with Eurus should be considered compromised, yet, no one questions the motivation of Watson, who has voluntarily subjected himself to unknown hours of psychological manipulation by her? OK. 

I thought that's what John's shock of realization was until they told us it was John realizing the governor was in the psych sessions with Euros.

[TomServo]

On 1/16/2017 at 0:02 AM, RandomMe said:

I'm happy to say I figured the girl and the plane did not exist in the present-day narrative pretty much from the jump.

I didn't guess exactly what was going on, but from scene 1 there were plenty of clues that something about it was fake.  Kids have higher respiration rates than adults and the little girl probably would have been one of the first to go in a "something happened and nobody had time to reach the oxygen mask" situation.
 

14 hours ago, tankgirl73 said:

But... the plane was never real. However weird that whole aspect of the plot might be, the fact is, it didn't exist. Never did.

So... they didn't have to do ANY of the stuff they did.

Watson recognized the dude's voice on the recording right away. If only he'd recognized just as easily that it was always Eurus talking as the girl, they would have been spared ALL OF IT. They'd just refuse to play. Maybe she'd kill them, but that would be it. Or they'd just leave the room without doing her challenges, secure in the knowledge that it doesn't matter what happens to the three hanging guys, she's going to kill them no matter what, so they may as well try to find her and stop her sooner rather than later -- *that* would be the right way to minimize the deaths.

But all the psychological torture.... "I need to do this horrible thing in order to save this plane"... needless. Pointless. It would not have made a difference if they didn't do it at all.

Sherrinford was the out of control plane.  The plane driver and other sleeping adults were the staff that had been taken out of commission.  If the boys didn't get Eurus to crash herself, she was going to wreak havoc on all of London ("I see a river and a big wheel").  In that sense, the plane was "real" in that it was a real problem.

The realization that they didn't have a realistic incentive to play along with the game took me out of the show.  The only suspense was "hmm; what will the twist to this one be?"  Oh, we have to kill the Governor to keep Eurus from shooting his wife?  Either way someone dies; might as well have it be entirely Eurus' fault instead of any of ours.  Once Eurus shot the wife, they didn't have any reason to believe she wouldn't also find technical excuses to kill all of them and crash the girl on the plane no matter what.  

After Eurus dropped all three of the murder suspects into the ocean, why did they trust her not to kill Molly?  I was expecting her to say, "You stopped the bomb going off, but I rigged her Alexa device to set off poisoned fumes whenever it hears 'I love you.'  Let me record how you feel as you watch her face fall off!"   In fact, the thing that finally made progress toward breaking out of there was when Sherlock refused to play along and forced Eurus to fall back on her beloved Plan T[ranquilizer] (and again, even that only made sense if he was aware that his personally staying alive was imperative to the game.  Because when the Governor tried that trick...)

[dr pepper]

Considering the ending montage of H&W working cases, it looks like the end to me. But we'll see.

[cardigirl]

Well, this was not my favorite episode, or series.  If this is where the show ends, I'm okay with it, but I hope we might get a special or two out of all the players someday.  

I was not entertained by Euros.  Nor could I believe that Sherlock felt he 'owed' his sister anything after the horrible things she had done.  She was lost? Boo hoo for her.  Doesn't justify murdering a child, or anyone else that I can tell.  Yet, at the end, it seemed to me the show was trying to give a feeling that the family had failed Euros, and needed to make it up to her, by listening to her play duets with Sherlock.  Um, okay.  No justice for her victims then. 

The final montage of Sherlock and Euros playing violins, while we see into the future a short way (little baby Watson is still a toddler), was interesting, and I wish that it had been longer, if this is indeed the end. I liked the bit with Sherlock and Molly, and couldn't believe that Euros didn't go ahead and kill her as she had done with the other victims in the previous tests, but I'm sure the writers were certain they wouldn't be able to get away with that. Molly is too popular. If anything, the fact that she didn't die gives me an inclination to think that they're hoping to do more episodes.

Overall, sad that I waited so long for these episodes and didn't enjoy them more.  I will rewatch and may find more to like about them.  I hope so.  Sherlock used to be one of my all-time favorite shows.    

[Mama No Life]

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Did they deprogram all the Sherrinford employees who were in thrall to Eurus?  And who really knows who else came to visit her?  How could anyone ever trust any of those people again?

Tried to quote the post about John being under Eurus's influence but technology. Snort

It does merit mentioning that John beat the shit out of Sherlock while under Eurus's therapy....

He also made peace with Sherlock under this same therapy. 

We don't know how much Eurus influenced either of these, though I'd like to think not much at all....

Edited January 17, 2017 by Mama No Life

[Eneya]

The second dvd with Mary was literally "I am shipping this ship." and... I am sorry... she is on the verge of tears and feels horrible when thinking she may be dead in the first dvd... the feeling of the second dvd was literally her fangirling about them... and not like an equal to one and the partner of another.

I read an interesting theory about Eurus doing all of this in order to restore Sherlock and his issues she created. I am calling bullshit to that but it was interesting nonetheless.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Eneya
missed sentence

[Arnella]

Quote

You can't have it both ways, Moffat!  And yes, I always say that name in a low, disgusted tone similar to "Newman".

Me too Pattycake2, me too.  I have ever since he took over from Russel T Davies on Who.

[shrewd.buddha]

11 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Who created the fake gravestones? The five year old sister?

 

11 hours ago, tankgirl73 said:

I think the graves had been there for ages and ages, it's one of the reasons they all loved the house. Weirdness seems to run in the family. I'm not sure that the gravestones themselves were fake, just that the dates were (deliberately, for whatever reason) wrong.

I know it may be pointless to try to go down the plot hole riddled rabbit hole, but I got the impression that twisted sister somehow managed to use the gravestone marker information to give Sherlock the final clue. So either the gravestones had always contained the secret message for 30 years - or - twisted sister had manipulated the inscriptions recently but artfully made the gravestones look old.
(There is also the possibility that I had lost patience and missed some details.)

The gravestones, the elaborate fall-away room Sherlock was teleported(?) to, and the truly unbelievable audio-visual set-up that allowed Watson, Sherlock and others to stay connected during key moments were Dr. Evil levels of overly complicated machinations. Surely sharks with lasers would have been easier.

Edited January 17, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[tankgirl73]

24 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

 

I know it may be pointless to try to go down the plot hole riddled rabbit hole, but I got the impression that twisted sister somehow managed to use the gravestone marker information to give Sherlock the final clue. So either the gravestones had always contained the secret message for 30 years - or - twisted sister had manipulated the inscriptions recently but artfully made the gravestones look old.
(There is also the possibility that I had lost patience and missed some details)

I'm pretty sure it's just that she used the (pre-existing) dates in order to create the cypher code for her riddle.

Cumberbatch does have experience breaking unbreakable codes, after all. ;)

[jeansheridan]

Quote

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

She was lost? Boo hoo for her.  Doesn't justify murdering a child, or anyone else that I can tell.  Yet, at the end, it seemed to me the show was trying to give a feeling that the family had failed Euros, and needed to make it up to her, by listening to her play duets with Sherlock.  Um, okay.  No justice for her victims then. 

The show Sherlock is rarely about the victims or even their clients so I wouldn't expect a nod to the murdered here.  I do think Eurus's family failed her, Uncle Rudy and Mycroft.  She was a sick child who killed  a person.  She needed real therapy not a prison.  Then Mycroft essentially exploited her for the "greater good". And his career although I don't think he was so much ambitious as controlling.  

Nobody taught her that people mattered.  Watson has spent four seasons teaching Sherlock that people, ordinary, dull, people, matter.  That's why when Mary says I like you to him it means something to him.  He feels it for himself.  And he asks Mrs Hudson to keep his hubris in check.  Nobody does this for Eurus.  Sherlock &John keep Mycroft in check a bit.  As did Mary.  And I think his colleague who asked him out.  And Mommy.  

I like that the show did not even hint that their parents weren't good.  Perhaps distracted with math but not bad people. 

[shrewd.buddha]

10 minutes ago, tankgirl73 said:

I'm pretty sure it's just that she used the (pre-existing) dates in order to create the cypher code for her riddle.

But wasn't her riddle rhyme also 30+ years old? Did she create the grave maker cipher rhyme as a child with plans to use it as an adult? Or was the riddle rhyme created recently and Sherlock's memory was faulty?  

Edited January 17, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[Mari]

Another thing that made me laugh was near the end--the Holmes parents asking Sherlock what to do, because "You've always been the adult."   Considering how all three of their children turned out, their concepts of adulthood and proper nurturing have to be suspect.

 

Or they were an early Baskerville genetic experiment.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Mari
Forgot something.

[tankgirl73]

7 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

But wasn't her riddle rhyme also 30+ years old? Did she create the grave maker cipher rhyme as a child with plans to use it as an adult? Or was the riddle rhyme created recently and Sherlock's memory was faulty?  

My understanding was that her riddle was 30+ years old, it was a challenge for him to solve and she basically said it was a doozy.  He never figured out until present day that the dates were the cypher. I don't think she planned to use it as an adult -- she wanted him to solve it right then, when they were kids... but he never did.

[cardigirl]

The quote function doesn't seem to be working for me.

I thought that they did try to help her, but by the time the second fire occurred (when Mycroft told his parents that she had died in the fire), they felt she was someone to be contained, that therapy was not useful. 

And still, murdering or disposing of someone's child...well, it's difficult to be rehabilitated from that.  It seems that Mycroft, Mummy, and Daddy were pretty clear on her having done something heinous at that point. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

11 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Did they deprogram all the Sherrinford employees who were in thrall to Eurus?  And who really knows who else came to visit her?  How could anyone ever trust any of those people again?

Tried to quote the post about John being under Eurus's influence but technology. Snort

It does merit mentioning that John beat the shit out of Sherlock while under Eurus's therapy....

He also made peace with Sherlock under this same therapy. 

We don't know how much Eurus influenced either of these, though I'd like to think not much at all....

I don't think she influenced John - if she had,she would have tried to use him against Sherlock, which would have been interesting to watch.  She definitely didn't "mind-control" Sherlock, either.

 

14 minutes ago, tankgirl73 said:

23 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

But wasn't her riddle rhyme also 30+ years old? Did she create the grave maker cipher rhyme as a child with plans to use it as an adult? Or was the riddle rhyme created recently and Sherlock's memory was faulty?  

My understanding was that her riddle was 30+ years old, it was a challenge for him to solve and she basically said it was a doozy.  He never figured out until present day that the dates were the cypher. I don't think she planned to use it as an adult -- she wanted him to solve it right then, when they were kids... but he never did.

Yes; she wanted Sherlock to come to her room when she was still a child, to play with her.

I still don't understand why no one thought to look in a well for a missing child, unless it was a "hidden" well.  Interesting that Euros's reputation was such that no one doubted that she was responsible for Victor's disappearance.

Edited January 17, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[tanita]

She was a 6 years old. No matter how clever, no one would have thought that what she was saying was anything other then a game or a joke. They don't say how long after Victor's disappearance she burned down the ancestral home. They were weary when she cut herself and tortured Sherlock, but it was the burning down the house that got her put into a psych-ward by uncle Rudy.

[johntfs]

17 hours ago, fourPLUSseven said:

Dense is the word I've landed on to best describe this finale. Perhaps producers could have split this in two for ease of digestion. I will watch again when we get a dvd version.

It could take three or more viewings for me understand all on the screen.

Also, should we get S5, I would much rather wait 2 years for something grand that satisfies our doubts.

What's to understand?  The evil psycho woman played sadistic games with "our heroes" until Sherlock gave her a hug.

As for me, I think this show tends to make the "grand" the enemy of the good.  On the same night this was shown in the USA, Elementary told a fun tale involving clowns, superviruses, very mild bioterrorism, love, lawyerly manipulation and extortion.  And it gave us an education as to the nature of New York City's drinking water.

[tanita]

IDK man, if I'm getting just 3 episodes per season every 3-5 years, I want those episodes to be explosive, elaborate, different, exciting, larger then life. If I wanted a regular by the book procedural I can watch Elementary, Criminal Minds, Bones, The Blacklist... , which I do, but I like that Sherlock has moved away from it.

And for the record, with the exception of the first episode I found all those adjectives applied to this season and this finale. If some didn't, that is that I guess.

Edited January 17, 2017 by tanita

[ItCouldBeWorse]

30 minutes ago, tanita said:

IDK man, if I'm getting just 3 episodes per season every 3-5 years, I want those episodes to be explosive, elaborate, different, exciting, larger then life. If I wanted a regular by the book procedural I can watch Elementary, Criminal Minds, Bones, The Blacklist... , which I do, but I like that Sherlock has moved away from it.

And for the record, with the exception of the first episode I found all those adjectives applied to this season and this finale. If some didn't, that is that I guess.

You meant to say, I'm sure, it is what it is.

[tanita]

Naturally.

[cardigirl]

41 minutes ago, tanita said:

She was a 6 years old. No matter how clever, no one would have thought that what she was saying was anything other then a game or a joke. They don't say how long after Victor's disappearance she burned down the ancestral home. They were weary when she cut herself and tortured Sherlock, but it was the burning down the house that got her put into a psych-ward by uncle Rudy.

I believe they begged her to tell them where Redbeard was, but all she would do was recite her clue.  They clearly tried to find him, and were devastated that they could not. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Sherlock Lets The Dog Have His Day

In the season (series?) finale, Eurus makes our boys jump through some pretty messed-up hoops, and the truth behind Redbeard is revealed.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, tanita said:

IDK man, if I'm getting just 3 episodes per season every 3-5 years, I want those episodes to be explosive, elaborate, different, exciting, larger then life. If I wanted a regular by the book procedural I can watch Elementary, Criminal Minds, Bones, The Blacklist... , which I do, but I like that Sherlock has moved away from it.

That's fine, but explosive, elaborate, different, etc are things that are icing on the cake.  The cake itself still needs to be good and it frequently is not.  Season by season it's not.

Season 1:

"A Study in Pink" was a pretty cool, interesting mystery that wasn't quite big enough for a 90 minute run time.

"The Blind Banker" was Yellow Peril bullshit that stunk on ice.

"The Great Game" was a really great, suspenseful story with a great villain in Moriarty.

 

Season 2:

"A Scandal in Belgravia" featured a fun turn by Lara Pulver as Irene Adler and was a pretty cool story.

"The Hounds of Baskerville" is one I don't recall all that well as either good or bad, so call it, mediocre.

"The Reichenbach Fall" was a legitimately great that was again worthy of a 90 minute run time.

 

Season 3:

"The Empty Hearse" was another "stunk on ice" episode with Sherlock being an asshat to John and a bunch of silly-ass "solutions" to how Sherlock survived the previous episode.

"The Sign of Three" was a good if not quite great episode featuring some fun secondary characters (Janine, the kid) and a more personal side of Sherlock.  This is also the only episode in which Moriarty was never so much as referred to.

"His Last Vow" was a decent episode that needed five minutes cut off the end, specifically the stupid bit where Sherlock gets the "have you learned your lesson you murderous little scamp, you?" treatment that undermines what could have been a powerful ending.

 

Season 3.5:

"The Abominable Bride" was okay for an episode that mostly took place in Sherlock's head.  I kind of wish they'd fully committed to the Victorian setting.  The reveal of the real situation kind of undercut the stakes.

 

Season 4:

"The Six Thatchers" kind if stunk even if it didn't stick on ice.  Certain characters seemed to turn stupid or use poor judgement to serve the story, which was again too small  to fit into 90 minutes.

"The Lying Detective" was 75 minutes of an okay story with 15 minutes of suspenseful awesome at the end.  This episode also did the whole "this villain is the superest, duperest, ooperest, pooperest most terriblist dude Sherlock has ever faced" which after Moriarty and Magnussen is wearing a little thin.

"The Final Problem" didn't quite stink but it sure wasn't a rose.  That cool 15 minutes at the of "The Lying Detective?"  Yeah, screw that.  This is one where the villain apparently has super powers or something.  No, not super-hypnotism, the ability to make people stupidly unobservant.  Sherlock can't tell that glass isn't present?  Really?  Mycroft can't recognize his sister's voice (or the Governor's) ?  What the fuck ever.  If this is the end, I'm okay with it.  I don't want to see this show get even worse.

Edited January 17, 2017 by johntfs

[Amers]

So, the glowing picture that drove some of us (me) nuts was, what? To just pot stir the audience? My husband watched it last night. He is convinced it was all a dream. Lol he can't accept that this show turned into that. It was so different from other episodes. The silly explosion. 

 

And Mary's "IF I'm dead..." was for, nothing? 

 

 

Ugh. I'm just disappointed. I wait literally years for this show, and this didn't even feel like my show. It felt like the writers were playing games with their audience to get us talking and just delivered a bland story line that was already done (this was exactly like Moriarty's games). Boo. Blah. 

 

My saving grace would be a secret 4th episode. And I researched. Apparently I'm not the only person who saw previews with Tom Hiddleston. Why???? 

Oh, and too much predicting the future this season. It got too superhero like. There's, "Oh that's clever", and "Oh, they couldn't come up with a better way to do this, so you have to accept that Sherlock can now accurately predict event 2 weeks in advance down to detailed levels, oh and his sister can hypnotize people!"

[tanita]

Why would there be a secret 4th episode that they didn't advertise. I mean, that is contract-indicative to how you get viewers in seats. At the very least, if there was one they would have advertised it as a big surprise right after episode 3 to get everyone hyped up.

And yes, I understand the "everyone stops after the 3rd one" reference but come on. The production cost alone .... it's the same thing with a fake episode conspiracy theory. That is not how things work.

And this show would need to reach Dexter's level of suckness for me to just write it of. Now that was a show that lasted far past it's expiration date and had one of the worst season/series finals ever.

Edited January 17, 2017 by tanita

[tennisgurl]

Eurus Holmes was built up as such an omnipresent unstoppable force (and she apparently can back it up. Through magic hypnosis powers?) that I am amazed the show didn't reveal that Euruses other alias was Keyser Soze. 

[festivus]

39 minutes ago, tanita said:

And this show would need to reach Dexter's level of suckness for me to just write it of. Now that was a show that lasted far past it's expiration date and had one of the worst season/series finals ever.

Dexter had the worst finale I've ever seen. I remember just shaking my head in shock. I've got my problems with The Final Problem but I still love the Sherlock series as a whole and I'll be re-watching for years to come. There was some truly great acting in this show. 

[tanita]

I know. They trashed Debs character for the last 3 season so much and only Jennifer's acting saved it somewhat, but to kill her of and leave that lumberjack thing alive at the end - unforgivable, among many other infractions.

[SharonH58]

I think since Sherlock 'thought' he had a dog that he loved so much that now him and John need to get one.  For Rosie of course!  ;)

Oh and when John was supposed to shoot the Gov I was yelling  'shoot the glass!"  (first Die Hard movie)  I doubt the cell was bullet proof.

Edited January 17, 2017 by SharonH58

[Slovenly Muse]

47 minutes ago, johntfs said:

This is one where the villain apparently has super powers or something.  No, not super-hypnotism, the ability to make people stupidly unobservant.  Sherlock can't tell that glass isn't present?  Really?  Mycroft can't recognize his sister's voice (or the Governor's) ?  What the fuck ever. 

This is so true. And the problem is suspension of disbelief. (Well, actually the problem is, again, wasted opportunity.) They already established, in the previous two episodes, that Eurus is capable of mimicking healthy, normal, human behaviour to perfection. She was able to embody a guilt-ridden, conscience-stricken woman so perfectly that Sherlock didn't notice she was faking. So why did we get her in this episode all wild-haired and crazy-eyed, observing her siblings like she'd never seen human emotions before, making references to being unable to tell the difference between screaming and laughing? It totally blew their premise. Because Eurus' powers of persuasion MAKE SENSE in the context of the previous two episodes, when we see her slip into people's lives unobtrusively and disrupt their routines and thought patterns. It is PLAUSIBLE that an "innocent" encounter on a bus could drive a happily-married man to distraction and plant a seed that could grow into infidelity. It is plausible that a fragile woman with an ALMOST-unsolvable mystery could cause a genius detective to go mad looking for the answer... She impersonates a therapist perfectly, and I could envision vulnerable people going to her for help, putting themselves in a mindset to trust her because they are seeking answers, and coming away with a little earworm suggesting that their family is the problem, and drastic action may be required to solve it...

But trained professionals talking to someone they know is a murderous, psychotic manipulator for five minutes and coming away with a compulsion to murder their family is where suspension of disbelief fails. It's so frustrating, because they ALMOST HAD IT! They were going in completely the right direction, establishing Eurus as a genuis manipulator by showing how she had already infiltrated the characters' lives and affected their choices and their thinking. Her identity was a reveal so effective that no matter how you felt about the episode in general, you probably freaked out at the end, because whether or not you saw it coming, you felt the impact and the implications of it. And then they took what was working, re-set it in a prison for some reason, resorted to "tell, don't show" storytelling, and blasted the character to such preposterous heights of insanity/malevolence/omnipotence that it all just fell apart. (I already ranted at length about the weakness of her motivations for this, compared to what they could or SHOULD have been. Yeesh.)

I don't know why I continue to expect better from Moffat at this point. I really don't.

[Matt K]

37 minutes ago, SharonH58 said:

Oh and when John was supposed to shoot the Gov I was yelling  'shoot the glass!"  (first Die Hard movie)  I doubt the cell was bullet proof.

Same here, especially since we were just shown that at least some of the glass used was definitely not bullet proof (when Eurus shoots the wife) and if anything those windows should have been bullet proof (direct access to the director's office from the outside).  That said, what a terrible episode.  

[Pattycake2]

I enjoyed seeing the parents again and it was interesting that Mycroft was watching a Sam Spade - type detective movie.  He likes playing a detective.  Is he a little jealous of Sherlock?  Or, is it just a Captain Picard thing?

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, Matt K said:

Same here, especially since we were just shown that at least some of the glass used was definitely not bullet proof (when Eurus shoots the wife) and if anything those windows should have been bullet proof (direct access to the director's office from the outside).  That said, what a terrible episode.  

Honestly a cold but simple way to disarm Euros would have been to non-fatally shoot Sherlock, like Mary did in 3.03.  It's pretty obvious that Sherlock is Euros' "toy" of choice.  Taking him out of play likely triggers a breakdown for her.

The whole set-up was silly, overwrought and nonsensical.  Think how much cooler it could have been if Euros gets revealed as Molly Hooper's colleague at the hospital, Janine's new bestie, Lady Smallwood's secretary,  Bill Wiggan's customer, Greg Lestrade's girlfriend and many other things to many other people.  So Euros uses her disguise and insights to set up human time bombs in the form of the people close to Sherlock and John.  Granted that borrows from "The Great Game" but if you're going to borrow, borrow from something that was good.  The Saw franchise has been rancid rat-shit since the second entry. 

[blackwing]

Just finished this, and wow.... it was painful.  I had a hard time getting through it and almost switched it off during the neverending scenes when they were in the prison cell.  I hated this episode and "The Lying Detective".  Both were trying too hard to be too smart for its own good.

If these last two episodes were indicative of the POS that the creators intend to keep makingm then I would be perfectly fine if the show is done.  It certainly seemed like an ending.

[TomServo]

12 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

It does merit mentioning that John beat the shit out of Sherlock while under Eurus's therapy....

How many times did John punch Sherlock's lights out in The Empty Hearse?  And then there was the good old, "I always hear 'punch me in the face' when you're speaking, but it's usually subtext."

[Mama No Life]

True.^

Just rewatched, and while the story is pretty stupid even on the second viewing, the acting is pretty amazing.  Also, the directing was pretty sweet......they did such a good job with staging the three boys during Eurus's puzzle playing.  Their turns, their stands, their simultaneous gazes.  Sherlock's sad smile when Mycroft pretended to look for his tiny heart.  Mycroft's fear when he thought Sherlock was going to kill himself.  John's despair when Sherlock took out the earpiece.  Sherlock and John reminding themselves to be soldiers.  As far as hitting the emotional notes, well done. 

Also, I loved Mrs. Holmes telling Mycroft that he was very limited. snort

[John Potts]

On ‎16‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 9:29 PM, IWantCandy71 said:

Someone re-posted Mark's comments on Twitter from a few years ago about "go and read a children's book if you can't handle something complicated."

That's a pure "Emperors New Clothes" argument. "Oh no, it's not pretentious crap... you're just not smart enough to see how good it really is!" Maybe it really IS crap and you just want to convince people to keep watching.

[darkestboy]

Not bad but not strictly great either. I just felt a little meh about it at times.

I did like the final five minutes though and thought the show could go either way - either a series finale or a return to basics, whatever happens really.

The Redbeard stuff was good, the girl in the plane stuff less so. I did like Eurus outsmarting her brothers and Watson at certain points though.

Nice to see Sherlock and Watson's friendship restored. Was nearly certain that Mycroft was going to die at one point in the episode.

Nice use of Moriarty and Mary here but Molly, Hudson and Lestrade were less served, 7/10

[PaulaO]

I would watch "The Mycroft Show."  I really like his character and if (God forbid) there is another series, I hope one episode explores his character.  I think I'm over my disappointment of this episode.  It's only teevee after all, but still like to read other's postings.  Moriarty will never not make my skin crawl.

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Finally, I have to wonder -- WTF is it with the Holmes kids???  The parents are pretty normal and yet they have three children who are not only geniuses but have extreme personality issues. 

I remember it having been said that his Mother was a code breaker or mathematician in the War???

I wonder if Eurus programmed Moriarity to kill himself on the rooftop.

[Mama No Life]

Eurus said that Moriarty used her for his revenge, not the reverse.  I don't buy that Eurus was controlling that situation...rather Moriarty told her enough about Sherlock and Watson and Mycroft to give her what she needed to pull this together.

[LennieBriscoe]

I guess Conan Doyle simply didn't write enough stories to choose from.

*sarcasm*

Edited January 19, 2017 by LennieBriscoe

[Nmissi]

On 1/16/2017 at 9:47 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

I just could not buy into these plot points:

• Sherlock doesn't know he is alergic to dogs?
• Who created the fake gravestones? The five year old sister?

Sherlock's dad was allergic to dogs, and the phony graveyard was  a bizarre version of the traditional "folly." Perhaps his parents, or a wacky ancestor, had it constructed, because the senseless names and dates amused them.

[ohjoy]

I had no problem just eye-rolling through the massive explosion that caused no actual harm and the apparent ease and speed with which Eurus dispatched Sherlock, Watson and Mycroft to their respective places for the final act (I just chalk it up to "that's how this show rolls" and go on), but the tiny detail I could not get past was when Sherlock was talking to Eurus about playing the violin and she said she taught Sherlock how to play. When exactly did she teach her older brother to play the violin before she was carted away at the grand old age of six? That line seemed like someone forgot how old all the Holmes children were supposed to be when all the tragedy went down.

[festivus]

Now see, I had no problem with that because they were child prodigies, well of course they were. They are Holmes!  ;) But that explosion, nope, No. 

[SusanSunflower]

If Euros taught Sherlock to play violin and he continued playing violin for the.rest.of.his.life thus far, his "amnesia" wrt Euros is much less credible ... sense memory (like scent memory)  is very powerful, there would have been deja vu... also I noticed his playing in that duet was superb... not only "not canon" but I'm not sure if it was "in continuity" with Moffit/Gattis Sherlock we'd met previously ... they both sounded as if dubbed by very-good-players indeed .. 

My biggest problem was the idea that Euros had somehow been institutionalized for -- what? -- 30 years and had such a dynamic knowledge of people, places, things, recent history, interconnections ... 

They should have and could have tied Euros to Mary  ...  I suspect they tried and couldn't make it work, but in for a penny, in for a pound ... leaving Mary out of Euros' machinations was a noticeable omission. (unless I missed something with all my eye-rolling) 

[tanita]

Well, she was allowed on twitter at least.

If she needed an hour each time to stop a terrorist plot, i'm sure she was able to gather all the relevant knowledge she needed online.

As one previous poster said, they needed to remove Mary out of this equation because she would have gone full Rambo through Eurus's Saw-like prison in a jiffy.

Edited January 19, 2017 by tanita

[Starchild]

Mummy and Daddy Holmes really should donate their genetic material to the government. They could make an army of Holmes' that could rule the world. Of course they might also blow it to hell, but wow what a powerhouse every fertilized egg turns into.

[VCRTracking]

Have to hand it to Moffett and co. I was calling Eurus a "bitch" and "c***" and absolutely hating her psycho ass for an hour and twenty minutes, up until Sherlock opened the door and revealed the "little girl on the plane" was Eurus who was completely unhinged but still vulnerable and damaged. When he hugged her I was in tears and then when they showed him regularly visiting her when she was back in prison and they played violins together I was actually moved. Sian Brooke did an amazing job.

I like most viewers was completely fooled when Jim Moriarty stepped off the helicopter to Queen's "I Want to Break Free" and then disappointed when the "Five years earlier" came up.

[aemom]

There are a lot of things bothering me about this episode which have already been addressed, but I haven't seen any discussion about this:

John found Victor's bones in the well. That would mean that nobody ever found the child's body. So the child has been missing all these years with the parents wondering what happened. So basically,  Eurus might have told her family that she had killed Victor but there was never any proof of that so they may have dismissed it as "crazy talk." It was only when she burned the house down that they realized for sure that she needed to be committed. 

There was never any talk at the end of the show about contacting Victor's family to let them know the truth. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by AEMom
Typos