S04.E03: The Final Problem

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

In the final episode of this new series, written by Mark Gatiss and Steven Moffat, long buried secrets finally catch up with the Baker Street duo. Someone has been playing a very long game indeed and Sherlock and John Watson face their greatest ever challenge. Is the game finally over?

Promo:

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[StatMom]

Well, the final message certainly sounded like a place where they could end it.

The story seemed a bit (ok, a lot) convoluted. Just because someone is super smart doesn't mean they can snap their fingers and make things happen. I get that she hypnotized people with her smarts or whatever to do stuff. But it strained credulity at many points.

[tanita]

I would assume she developed it over the years of incarceration. Probably took a long time to be this effective. And sure it's not credible, but neither is everything Sherlock does and yet we buy it. It's like Mycroft to use his baby sister as a tool for the British government, but in doing so he exposed her to the real world (via twitter) and that is where she got info about Sherlock and Moriarty. It's all you fault Mycroft. I loved Gatiss this episode - he really has quite the presence.

Anyway, I enjoyed it immensely. The only weak part or the part I kept losing interest was the little girl in the plane. Other then that it was a compelling episode.

I think they ended it in such a way that if they don't make more this feels like a decent and satisfying end. And as someone who never shipped Johnlock as anything other then bros or best friends, this feels right. But I think there is room for more - maybe in a few years, or a special or two. I thought Cumberbatch signed on for seasons 4 and 5 - so if the leads isn't opposed to more, I don't see why they won't make more down the line.

Edited January 15, 2017 by tanita

[lorbeer]

Most of it I liked... But I wasn't happy to see Mary in the end - again...... I liked the sister though :)

[tanita]

Yeah, I liked Eurus as well. Great casting and a great performance.

One negative - that explosion was so bad - the idea was good, but the CGI was atrocious. And if we are talking improbable, how about no body being hurt after that. They jumped through windows, how are their arms/legs and other bones not broken.

Great music in this episode - Iron Maiden and Queen

Edited January 15, 2017 by tanita

[fourPLUSseven]

42 minutes ago, tanita said:

Yeah, I liked Eurus as well. Great casting and a great performance.

One negative - that explosion was so bad - the idea was good, but the CGI was atrocious. And if we are talking improbable, how about no body being hurt after that. They jumped through windows, how are their arms/legs and other bones not broken.

Great music in this episode - Iron Maiden and Queen

Dude - he's Sherlock Holmes. 

We get the finale in 20 minutes here in US. So excited.

[John Potts]

Glad people liked it, but I HATED it. The whole episode was like a PG Saw rip off, and if I believed Gatiss/Moffat could actually kill a character so they stayed dead, I might be worried. In the end, status quo was restored, except for the Governor and his wife dying (but we're not meant to care about them, so that's fine) and apparently Sherlock has TWO siblings he doesn't remember. Couldn't we just have Sherlock solve some real crimes and stop running into uber geniuses that just won't die?

[StatMom]

True that the show has bent time and space at times, so maybe I could hand wave some of that stuff. But when I think about it, what I find I so unsatisfying is her motive. The "experiments" suggest she wants to understand people and their emotional motives. But would Sherlock and Mycroft be good subjects for that? OK, it's her brothers, and Sherlock in particular who she is interested in. Maybe somewhat to torment, and also... so he'll visit her in prison and play with her? If she's so brilliant, maybe she could have devised a less evil and killy way to go about it. But then, I'm not a Super Genius.

 

Edited January 16, 2017 by StatMom

[SharonH58]

25 mins of behind the scenes of episode 2.  Finally started.  Looks like the Russian one.  Which I watched a few mins of.

[SharonH58]

Another freaking time jump.  And I am tired of them.  Too far fetched stuff.  But you know, don't bother explaining stuff or making sense. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by SharonH58
adding

[janeta]

"We had to find the right waistband." HAHAHAHAHA!!

[SharonH58]

I wish I could fast forward as this is stupid.  And boring.

Quote

 

[tankgirl73]

I liked the first 70 minutes of it. Many great things. But then it just kind of... ended... It's like they had to finish so they threw a bunch of things together and called it an ending even though it wasn't.

Why was she suddenly sobbing and acquiescent? How was the song and the cypher of the dates a clue to find her in her bedroom, when she created that song when she was a little kid and it was supposed to be a hint to the location of the murdered dog/brother?

John's ankle was chained to the well. How would a rope help with that? If it weren't for the chain, all he'd have to do would be have the stamina to tread water until the top... not drown within minutes.

And what happened with Molly? After that heart wrenching conversation... it sure looked like he realized, while saying it, that he actually meant it. But... followup? In all the cut scenes in the closing montage, I think there was ONE of Molly coming into the flat, smiling... but... what more? Did they just say "oh it was a pressure situation, still friends, that's all" and forget it ever happened? Ugh.

I do have to take a moment to accept my accolades for the theory I posted last week that Redbeard was never a dog. I suspected it might actually be an altered memory of Eurus, though I wasn't certain of that. I knew Eurus had something to do with it, at any rate. And also, kudos to all those last week who correctly interpreted "they always stop at 3" to mean there was in fact a 4th sibling. What was his name? I could never grasp it as Sherlock spoke it. Victor? Can't just be Victor, that name is far too ordinary.

[Peace 47]

I'm pretty sure that this is me tapping out on my heretofore passionate love for this show.  That was a hot mess, and a hopelessly self-indulgent set piece that was psychologically torturous for most it.  (There's a reason why I won't watch the Saw movies and wasn't expecting to have to sit through it here.)

A grenade goes off in 221B, and John, Sherlock and Mycroft each escape without a scratch.  (John and Sherlock doing so by jumping through closed second story-windows, mind you.)  This grenade doesn't blast through the floor and take out Mrs. Hudson below, or even char Sherlock's leather chair, which he uprights and sits in at the end of the episode.

The girl on the plane is a metaphor for Eurus's lost inner little girl, but she somehow hears Moriarty's voice terrifying her at the beginning of the episode.  Why??

I hated the treatment of every woman in this episode.  Molly was a sad sack who, despite being a competent physician (and who had the barest hints of a potential Lestrade relationship in prior episodes and was also engaged to someone else) cannot get over Sherlock at all, ever.  Eurus is seriously deranged and experiences no emotions whatsoever at the beginning of the episode, not even the primal reaction of pain, but somehow a man (Sherlock) finally paying attention to her lets her break and sob into his arms.  And she was terrifying on her own:  why did we need her to invoke Moriarty to be truly scary?  And finally, Mary, who has to make another DVD for her Time-Life video collection for John, was only ever there to bless Sherlock and John's co-parenting arrangement at the end while they go on solving crimes.

I'd also complain about oddities from prior episodes that were never followed through on (Lady Smallwood/Mycroft jumps to mind immediately), but I'm too bitter about what happened in this episode to be bitter about what didn't.

ETA:  Victor was just Sherlock's friend, not another brother.  Victor Trevor was a college friend of Sherlock's in the books.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Peace 47

[MissLucas]

Yeah, what about Molly??? We got a glimpse of her in the final montage so it's safe to assume she did not kill herself once Sherlock had told she was friendzoned again. But blah!

Even if it was far-fetched (and that's an understatement) it was compelling to watch - Sian Brooke was mesmerizing holding her own against Cumberbatch.

Favorite moment was oddly enough Sherlock calling Lestrade 'Greg' followed by Lestrade's noticing and then the call-back to the pilot but this time Sherlock is (finally) a good man. That should have been the last words of this episode (and probably the show).

[penguinnj]

I think Victor was just a friend, not another sibling.  He was to Sherlock what John is now.

[SharonH58]

Gave up and bailed.  Back watching Season 5 of Person of Interest.  That was a GREAT show. 

[tankgirl73]

Quote

I think Victor was just a friend, not another sibling.  He was to Sherlock what John is now.

Oooohhh, that would explain why he had a simple name and two names from what I could tell. That does make much more sense. It's just odd to think of the Holmes' having friends outside of the family, they were so insular and isolated. I think you're probably correct... but that wasn't clear at all. Or at least it was ambiguous. They never did say "omg another brother" but the setting -- the emotional context, as it were -- was all about secret siblings. So the audience interpretation could easily fall this way even though there's no actual evidence that it was a brother at all!

Our bias colours our interpretations. I assumed it was a brother, so everything Sherlock said after that, I fit into my narrative of it being a brother. "He was my best friend" still can be a sibling -- he had one brother he didn't get along with, or was just too much older to play with. And he had a sister who was left out. But the brother who was close in age, they had a lot in common, they were best friends.

So how old was Sherlock supposed to be when this happened? He had a sister who killed his best friend, and he was so traumatized that he remembered it as a dog instead of a person and forgot about the sister completely. Would have to be pretty darn young to transform the memory that much. But okay, I'll buy it. But how did he, as an older adult with astonishing deductive skills, never ever ever come across a newspaper report from his home town about a young child who disappeared and another sent away for the crime, the body never found (seriously, they didn't look in the well?) and have it ring a teensy little bell?

Edited January 16, 2017 by tankgirl73

[MissLucas]

Sherlock said Victor had been his best friend, Eurus said she never had had any friends - so it was quite clear that Victor was not another missing sibling, especially as we were given Victor's last name which was 'Trevor'. They played pirates - Sherlock was Yellowbeard, Victor was Redbeard, nothing ambiguous about it.

Edited January 16, 2017 by MissLucas

[Guairdean]

What a pathetic way to end the season, and possibly the series. I'm halfway through the episode and haven't decided if it's worth finishing. If there is a new season, I'll think long and hard before watching. 

[AimingforYoko]

That seemed like an ending.

This was pretty good, hit a lot of emotional beats if you could get over that little stumbling block of one woman being able to take over a facility without her last name actually being Xavier.

So are we to infer that Eurus was the villain all along?

[fourPLUSseven]

25 minutes ago, penguinnj said:

I think Victor was just a friend, not another sibling.  He was to Sherlock what John is now.

 

Bingo.

This was brilliant if untidy. I see an S5 for sure.

[peridot]

I lost about 20 minutes due to tornado warnings, but what I've heard of the episode was over dramatic.

The emphasis on the Holmes reminds me of the Crane family drama from Sleepy Hollow, and that was a huge turnoff.

I hope this was the series finale.  What more is there to tell?

[Mari]

So, asking for a friend.

Does having a texting affair count, if you were somewhat mind-whammied by Samara from The Ring movie franchise?

[tankgirl73]

Mari that's another point I wish they'd at least *mentioned*... Sherlock mentions to John, "you know, you really can't blame yourself for that texting thing now... "

[bmoore4026]

Say what you will about Steven Moffit, the man can do suspense, horror, and freaky images well.  I'd love to see what he could do with something like Neil Gaiman's The Sandman (who , in my dream project, would be starring Benedict Cumberbatch as the title character and Martin Freeman as Lucien) or John Constantine.

[tootsie]

Shades of The Bad Seed & the dueling banjos of Deliverance!  This ep not for me. Sorry. Not even a teensy bit of sympathy for crazy sister, who kills little boys, therapists (hope they got that body out of the closet), and women strapped to chairs. And what was that whole dangling brothers thing? Sheesh. Oh crime solving duo, please come back...I really, really miss you. 

[QQQQ]

Would encourage family/friends who have yet to discover this series to skip the final season. While still better than much of what's on tv these days, it just didn't match the brilliance, charm, or wit of earlier seasons. 

[Driad]

Did anyone else feel as if you were in an episode of The Prisoner?

[fourPLUSseven]

2 minutes ago, Driad said:

Did anyone else feel as if you were in an episode of The Prisoner?

Yet another reference to classic sci-fi TV. Agreed.

[SimoneS]

I thought this was pretty horrible. If this was the final episode, it was a serious letdown. Sherlock thought his best friend was a dog? So many moments were incredibly ridiculous.

[janeta]

These are the dangly guys

http://sherlockholmes_cases.tripod.com/threegar.htm

Edited January 16, 2017 by janeta

[Peace 47]

1 minute ago, janeta said:

These are the dangly guys

http://sherlockholmes_cases.tripod.com/threegar.htm

That was another insult from the episode.  "The Three Garridebs" offered a nice moment of epic friendship between Holmes and Watson in the stories, with Watson getting grazed by a bullet but saying that it was worth a thousand wounds to see the depth of Holmes' "love and loyalty" in reaction to Watson's injury.

Instead, in this version, we drop two Garridebs off a cliff while poor Sherlock is psychologically tortured (after being pushed to the brink physically and mentally last week, after having his dearest friend cut him off the week before last).  I'm grateful that this was the finale because I'm quite sure this show wouldn't let up until Sherlock was dead if they intended to keep going.  Ugh.

[Ms Lark]

If this isn't the series finale it should be. Clearly, we've come to a sorry end of what was once an amazing series. RIP Sherlock, we knew you well.

[benteen]

Definitely seemed like an ending.  I really enjoyed it.  Sian Brooke was excellent and I'm glad that Mycroft had such a big role.

[rereader2]

59 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Sherlock said Victor had been his best friend, Eurus said she never had had any friends - so it was quite clear that Victor was not another missing sibling, especially as we were given Victor's last name which was 'Trevor'. They played pirates - Sherlock was Yellowbeard, Victor was Redbeard, nothing ambiguous about it.

And Victor Trevor was Sherlock Holmes' friend at uni, in the ACD canon--Trevor's father gave Holmes the idea of becoming a consulting detective, and Trevor gave Holmes his first real case in "The Adventure of the Gloria Scott." 

***

I am so deaded by this episode... (In a good way!) That ending--it lead us right up to the characters that we know from prior iterations, so in a way that COULD be the end of "Early Sherlock Holmes." But it could also be the prologue to "Sherlock Holmes: The Adult Years", and I REALLY HOPE IT WILL BE!

Edited January 16, 2017 by rereader2

[Amers]

So, Euros was the master mind behind Moriarty all along? So his, I am you thing was because Euros was in his head? And she killed Sherlock best friend? And tries to get him to kill either his brother or his new best friend (twice)? And he's all, LA de da, let's play music together it's ok. You're just nuts. 

 

I'm not happy. Especially because it felt the last 20 minutes was thrown together, and left on a very finale note. Like, if that wasn't the close to a series I don't know what is.

[Amers]

And maybe I'm as crazy as Euros but did anyone else see some promos with Tom Huddleston in them for this season? I SWEAR I saw that he was going to be in this season. Maybe I dreamed it. 

[Writing Wrongs]

That was a tedious episode. I started fast forwarding halfway through.

[statsgirl]

If this is the last episode of Sherlock they ever make, I'll be okay with that.  It's gone from an amazing game of intellect to a WTH? psychological horror show.

It's bad enough that they use mental illness as a reason for the villain but Euros' illness never made sense.  We're back to The Bad Seed levels of understanding of mental illness.  The actress did a good job but the logic was just ridiculous.

1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

The girl on the plane is a metaphor for Eurus's lost inner little girl, but she somehow hears Moriarty's voice terrifying her at the beginning of the episode.  Why??

I hated the treatment of every woman in this episode.  Molly was a sad sack who, despite being a competent physician (and who had the barest hints of a potential Lestrade relationship in prior episodes and was also engaged to someone else) cannot get over Sherlock at all, ever.  Eurus is seriously deranged and experiences no emotions whatsoever at the beginning of the episode, not even the primal reaction of pain, but somehow a man (Sherlock) finally paying attention to her lets her break and sob into his arms.  And she was terrifying on her own:  why did we need her to invoke Moriarty to be truly scary?  And finally, Mary, who has to make another DVD for her Time-Life video collection for John, was only ever there to bless Sherlock and John's co-parenting arrangement at the end while they go on solving crimes.

I hope Mrs. Hudson in helping out on the parenting because Watson still isn't the best parent and Sherlock is likely to forget Rosie exists if he's on a case.

They really hit the fanservicing buttons, didn't they?  Sherlock tells Molly "I love you", she says she can't get beyond him, and then it's completely dropped?  Mary returns via DVD to give her blessing to John and Sherlock's everlasting love?  And we end the show with Sherlock and John happily co-parenting Rosie for all the Sherlock/Watson shippers.  It feels very manipulative.

Oh, Hari Kumar, what have they done to you?*

 

*Jewel in the Crown reference

[Tardislass]

Ugh, I missed parts of it but it got too far up it's own arse. So Eurus is crazy but a good crazy and Sherlock loves her even though she killed his friend..Sure.Fine.Whatever.

Is it sad that I'd love to see the cases that were shown in the last 5 minutes-the Dancing Men, etc? And it looks final..like really final. Which I'm pretty much okay with.

[Tardislass]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If this is the last episode of Sherlock they ever make, I'll be okay with that.  It's gone from an amazing game of intellect to a WTH? psychological horror show.

It's bad enough that they use mental illness as a reason for the villain but Euros' illness never made sense.  We're back to The Bad Seed levels of understanding of mental illness.  The actress did a good job but the logic was just ridiculous.

I hope Mrs. Hudson in helping out on the parenting because Watson still isn't the best parent and Sherlock is likely to forget Rosie exists if he's on a case.

They really hit the fanservicing buttons, didn't they?  Sherlock tells Molly "I love you", she says she can't get beyond him, and then it's completely dropped?  Mary returns via DVD to give her blessing to John and Sherlock's everlasting love?  And we end the show with Sherlock and John happily co-parenting Rosie for all the Sherlock/Watson shippers.  It feels very manipulative.

Oh, Hari Kumar, what have they done to you?*

 

*Jewel in the Crown reference

Oddly, enough the John/Sherlock shipper were upset with the episode. And yeah, poor Molly what a bad ending for her.

[TomServo]

Can you imagine Rosie growing up in that environment?  Cue Eurus 2.0

[MisterGlass]

In keeping with the rest of this season, this needed clarity, plausibility, and linearity.  It was enough of an improvement over the season opener for me to enjoy it.

That said, this had interesting moments, and good performances in them.  I like the characterizations of Holmes, Watson, and Mycroft in the experiments.  I liked the confrontation with the parents and the idea of the violin duet.  The idea of Moriarty as Eurus's puppet is an interesting one, though it was not so well explored as I would have liked.

Molly, Mrs. Hudson, and Lestrade were terribly underused.

If there is another season, I would like to see mysteries more than intrigues.

[Eliza422]

It was just talk, talk, TALK!!! Last week was definitely the best of the three. I'm definitely ok if they don't do anymore. Just do some damn normal cases.

i almost turned if off when Moriarty showed up. I've always despised that character.

 This was just a waste of time. Good riddance.

[statsgirl]

14 minutes ago, Tardislass said:

Oddly, enough the John/Sherlock shipper were upset with the episode. And yeah, poor Molly what a bad ending for her.

Why?  They ended up as together as they could be.

11 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

Molly, Mrs. Hudson, and Lestrade were terribly underused.

I think that was a problem with the whole season. It was as if no one really mattered other than Sherlock, John, Mary and Mycroft. Every other character was just there to service the story of those four.  While I liked the addition of Mycroft as a savoury,  I was upset at Mary being killed because for me, the Sherlock/John relationship is not the be-all and end-all of everything.

It's as if Moffat and Gatiss let their success go to their heads.

Edited January 16, 2017 by statsgirl

[Cthulhudrew]

Did not care for this episode at all. I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why the "omnipotent/omniscient villain" idea is such a tempting well for writers to jump into. It is so hackneyed (not to mention overused). All it ever serves is to provide artificial drama for characters in lieu of actually trying to develop a thoughtful, appropriate degree of challenge for them to overcome. And almost inevitably it involves wrapping up the "plot" with a bow and a wink, because the villain was so overly powerful that there was no reasonable way for the protagonists to actually rectify the problem otherwise.

There have been some plots in the series that have involved a bit of handwaving (Reichenbach Fall, I'm looking at you), but moreso than any of them, this episode left the world of realism far behind. A shame, as I think Gatiss and Moffatt have proven much more capable than this so far. And while the last few minutes were somewhat upbeat and happy, the fact that they hit the reset button so thoroughly makes it bittersweet to me.

1 hour ago, tankgirl73 said:

And what happened with Molly? After that heart wrenching conversation... it sure looked like he realized, while saying it, that he actually meant it. But... followup? In all the cut scenes in the closing montage, I think there was ONE of Molly coming into the flat, smiling... but... what more? Did they just say "oh it was a pressure situation, still friends, that's all" and forget it ever happened? Ugh.

And then there is this, of course. Such a big fail. One of the most powerful, emotional beats in the entire episode, maybe the series- it ranks up there with Sherlock's wedding speech, IMO)- and there is no follow through. No moment between Molly and Sherlock to address it at all. They threw in a moment for Sherlock and Lestrade (which was nice), but they couldn't manage a few minutes for Molly? Ugh. 

[Tardislass]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

 

I think that was a problem with the whole season. It was as if no one really mattered other than Sherlock, John, Mary and Mycroft. Every other character was just there to service the story of those four.  I liked to addition of Mycroft as a savoury and I was upset at Mary being killed because for me, the Sherlock/John relationship is not the be-all and end-all of everything.

I'd agree with you except for Mrs. Hudson got her moments. However, Lestrade was hardly shown(Rupert Graves on another show perhaps) and Molly was reduced the the nanny/Sherlock babysitter and the poor lovelorn woman. Ugh she's a freaking doctor just like John. And please no more Moriarty, he's been played out. I liked parts of this but the whole was bad.

Just now, Cthulhudrew said:

And then there is this, of course. Such a big fail. One of the most powerful, emotional beats in the entire episode, maybe the series- it ranks up there with Sherlock's wedding speech, IMO)- and there is no follow through. No moment between Molly and Sherlock to address it at all. They threw in a moment for Sherlock and Lestrade (which was nice), but they couldn't manage a few minutes for Molly? Ugh. 

Cynical me thought the last scene with Molly was her coming to babysit Rosie. LOL.

[Tardislass]

1 hour ago, penguinnj said:

I think Victor was just a friend, not another sibling.  He was to Sherlock what John is now.

Thank you for pointing that out. I thought the Holmes boys had another sibling-though you never know now. 

[bettername2come]

I didn't hate it. There were things I liked - Redbeard being a person not a dog like people here called, Sherlock actually getting to be a pirate, John and Sherlock's epic prank/reveal from Mycroft at the beginning, good scenes of the Holmes brothers and John working together for a common good, a legitimate reason for Sherlock's not having friends and lack of emotional attachment, no one I love dying, Sherlock calling Lestrade "Greg," Lestrade calling Sherlock a good man. 

But I had such high hopes after last week's episode. I thought the first episode of this season was boring, but last week stepped it up and I was looking forward to the secret sister wreaking havoc. But then it was taking place all at the island and it was stressful because I kept waiting for someone to die, but nothing was happening and then there wasn't even a plane?! And I call bullshit on Mycroft not being able to kill someone who's willing to die to save another person. Also I was waiting for him to refuse, John to do it and Euros to still kill the wife because John wasn't who Sherlock had picked. I like my way better.