S08.E05: Another Catfishing

[lookeyloo]

Maybe when she says lonely and unfulfilled she means as Sheldon on Big Bang Theory says, coitus.

[laurakaye]

I just watched, and let me tell you...I did NOT see that coming, not at all!  Given the dreck we've had to sit through with this show, and the constant dancing around of the elephants in every room of every McMansion, I was not at all prepared for some actual honesty (although to be fair, said honesty came from one of the kids, not the adults, but still).  Now, off to read 6 pages of insightful comments!

MIND = BLOWN.

P.S. I actually did not hate the meeting between Meri and Cheryl, either.  I don't even know who I am anymore.

And I'm sure it's already been said, but Therapist Liza >>>>> Therapist Nancy.

[3girlsforus]

17 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I get so tired of the endless whining about Meri "being lonely" and "unfulfilled" and all of those bullshit excuses.

You make your own destiny.  If you are waiting for others to do it for you then you get what you deserve.  Get this:  you do not need a man to be fulfilled.  

Get your ass out of the house, meet other people, do volunteer activities, help in a soup kitchen or in a hospital, join a group that supports deployed troops, be a docent at a museum, help out at a daycare or a women's shelter, make home visits for hospice, do the hell something.  There are a million activities out there to keep you from being lonely, for God's sake.  

I understand this and yes - she should be doing a bunch of these things.  It would help her be more fulfilled but she has a right to expect intimacy (and I'm talking emotional intimacy, not just physical) from her husband. She doesn't need a man, but a man made a commitment to her. She is lonely because she is watching that man who is supposed to be her partner basically ignore her and ignore their relationship. If you were talking about a monogamous relationship and the man was neglectful and emotionally abusive to the woman, you'd feel badly and understand that she's upset and lonely. Most on this board have said that whether it makes sense to us or not, Meri cheated with the online relationship and the fact that Kody is boffing 3 other women isn't relevant because that was part of the agreement. So it works both ways. Kody made the commitment to her to be her husband. There are expectations from that relationship and Meri has a right to expect them. So a married woman with a neglectful husband is going to be lonely no matter how many hobbies or activities she gets involved in.

[Galloway Cave]

1 hour ago, ChicagoChris said:

I have never seen her express interest in girls.

She has been posting a lot of pro-lesbian/gay posts and naked women pics on social media since April. Probably not something she would do if she wasn't entirely serious about her sexuality, living within that religion and her family.

[EtheltoTillie]

I have never been able to get a concise timeline of the catfishing scandal, and I have never been able to sit through all the episodes. They don't explain it clearly anyway. Is there some kind soul who could point me at some links. Thanks! 

[SongbirdHollow]

1 hour ago, ChicagoChris said:

I thought Meri looked like she really enjoyed herself on the Atlanta trip. Good for her.

I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I don't think Mariah is really gay.

I think she saw this announcement as a ploy for attention. 

I can't say whether or not she's "really" gay, and I don't care either way, but I do believe that it was a ploy for attention. Just like her mama.

Regarding whether parents should be upset if their kids don't follow their religion (in general), my feeling (filling?) is that if a person doesn't believe in something, there's no use in pretending they are. It has to come from the heart to mean anything so if my hypothetical kid didn't accept my hypothetical religion, I'd have to trust God (tm) that things are unfolding as they should.

[butterbody]

Fwiw,  my husband and I struggled with infertility for 7 years before we were blessed with our Butterbaby, meanwhile my sister and her wife got pregnant on their first try with insemination. 

[laurakaye]

21 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I know Kody would have been considered cute back in the day, but to me his face was even more slappable back then. He looked like "here I am all you lucky people".

THIS.  So much this.  That cat-that-ate-the-canary smirk on his pretty-boy face.  Very, very slappable.

 

20 hours ago, jenifaohjenny said:

Wow that was incredibly brave...pretty impressed actually. Do you think she should have told Meri first alone? Kind of just thinking about that...but not feeling strongly either way. 

You know what?  Whether it was staged or not, I think Mariah did it just right.  Her life has been on television for public consumption for the past 7 years or so.  Coming out with the entire film crew/lighting guys/boom operators/catering crew AND her eleventy-six parents in the room?  Brilliant, I say.

 

20 hours ago, jenifaohjenny said:

Hmmmm...I am so naive to think it was not staged! Still think it was brave on national TV...and I haven't been a Mariah fan in the past. 

I don't think it was staged either.  Interesting note: everyone was silent except Janelle, who said "are you serious?" in a tone that suggested she was somewhat giddy that poor ol' Mere was going to have to have another bite of karma sandwich.  Christine, however, said "are you really?" in a tone that seemed legitimately loving and warm.  Meanwhile, Meri sat, shell-shocked.  I'm not sure if these people could pull off a re-make of a moment like that.

 

10 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I did like seeing more of Ysabel and Gwendolyn. I really enjoy Christine's daughters. Ysabel seems so sweet and Gwen is the sassy one. I was a bit skeeved out hearing that Mykelti and Tony showed Ysabel how to French kiss. Yuck.

As much as I hate to say it, Christine and Kody do make beautiful kids.  Gwen looks just like Paedon, and she seems to be nearly as tall as he is, too.

 

5 hours ago, Granny58 said:

As far as I recall , yes.  And now we know why.  More kids, female companionship and less man. 

See also: Janelle Brown.  Hope I'm not overstepping, but I see Janelle going for polygamy for the main reason that she has no need for that much man-time.

 

1 hour ago, lookeyloo said:

Maybe when she says lonely and unfulfilled she means as Sheldon on Big Bang Theory says, coitus.

I think that's exactly what she means.

Edited January 3, 2017 by laurakaye

[SongbirdHollow]

26 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I have never been able to get a concise timeline of the catfishing scandal, and I have never been able to sit through all the episodes. They don't explain it clearly anyway. Is there some kind soul who could point me at some links. Thanks! 

A poster named Christina recently did a great summary in the Wedded Bliss topic. Check it out! 

[RedheadZombie]

4 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

All LDS people are taught they will have their own planet in the afterlife. Well, the man will. If the woman has been obedient, he will allow her to live on the planet with him producing spirit children for eternity. 

Exactly.  The majority of things people find crazy about the Browns' religion, is also true of LDS.  My LDS friend not only didn't invite me to the wedding ceremony in her precious temple.   She didn't invite her own father - still married to her mother - because he wasn't a member as her mother was.  LDS is just as secretive about their marriage ceremonies.   They have planets and veils and secret names.  In fact, LDS hasn't disavowed their polygamous forefathers.  They continue to revere them as prophets, etc.  But they're a little like Scientology and Xenu.  They pretty much deny it as crazy talk.

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I see this too. Meri, IMO, has a long history of being the martyr. I don't think she's WANTED to do 90% of the things she's done in this marriage, but she thinks if SHE offers it up, she'll be the big hero. I'm pretty sure she was the one who brought both Jenelle and Robyn into the family. She has been seeking Kody's approval from day one.

 

I'm guessing part of the problem is Meri's refusal to be honest about it. She keeps up this pretense that she was just looking for a friendship, that she was completely duped into this, that all of her flirty pics and videos were because she was being blackmailed. I don't buy it for a second and I don't think the family does either. It's kind of hard to forgive and move on when someone isn't owning up to their part in it all.

I don't think Meri brought Janelle in, other than the fact that she was her SIL.  I think the source of much resentment is that Janelle approached Kody behind Meri's back.  Kody, who's revealed himself to be captain save a ho (by marrying divorced women), probably couldn't resist "saving" Janelle.  Unlike most I don't believe Janelle is asexual.  I find her the most disgusting when ruminating on Kody's tight jeans and hair styles.  She wanted Kody and she pursued him.  I'm not sure how it works exactly, but it appears to have been a major faux pas.

[TVFAN]

I can completely understand why Meri is lonely.  It's not a lack of girlfriends.  Unlike the other wives, she seems to have a number of friends.  She wants to share her life with a husband.  She wants someone who is her best friend, lover, and soul mate all rolled into one.  She and Kody provide the perfect illustration of what's wrong with polygamy.  He has no concept of what her life is like because he does not share it.  The others still maintain somewhat of a connection with him because they still share young children with him, but I think most of them will face the same fate as Mary.  A stranger with whom they have nothing in common will visit their house once every four days.  Where is the fulfillment in that type of relationship?

[laurakaye]

Not only is Meri lonely, she's palpably lonely...I cannot think of another person on reality tv who exudes loneliness and sadness like Meri does.  It's why, as much as she drives me crazy, it's hard to be completely unsympathetic because she is the embodiment of a woman who is still very much in love with her husband, while her husband is too busy to notice because he's flitting from bed to bed around the cul-de-sac, but clearly taking a pass on Meri's bed.

[ReadMeLattice]

1 minute ago, laurakaye said:

Not only is Meri lonely, she's palpably lonely...I cannot think of another person on reality tv who exudes loneliness and sadness like Meri does.  It's why, as much as she drives me crazy, it's hard to be completely unsympathetic because she is the embodiment of a woman who is still very much in love with her husband, while her husband is too busy to notice because he's flitting from bed to bed around the cul-de-sac, but clearly taking a pass on Meri's bed.

Wasn't she the one who told him not to come over anymore and he just obeyed her wishes? Honest question, I'm having a hard time keeping up with the timeline of events because the catfish story they've told is so convoluted. And if so, do we know if that was after or before the affair started?

[EtheltoTillie]

39 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

A poster named Christina recently did a great summary in the Wedded Bliss topic. Check it out! 

Thanks. This is helpful. Are we to understand that the whole thing started on Twitter?

[Galloway Cave]

9 minutes ago, GussieK said:

Are we to understand that the whole thing started on Twitter?

I believe Jackie attended a Green Goo party at Meri's house with her then-victim and proceeded to pursue after Meri on Twitter as "Sam". His assistant "Lindsay" was the one buying the Green Goo for "Sam" (Sam and Lindsay being the two characters Jackie used in Meri's scam). The pictures of the interior of Meri's house that "Sam" used in his book are believed to have been taken during that Green Goo party.

[ChicksDigScars]

11 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Not only is Meri lonely, she's palpably lonely...I cannot think of another person on reality tv who exudes loneliness and sadness like Meri does.  It's why, as much as she drives me crazy, it's hard to be completely unsympathetic because she is the embodiment of a woman who is still very much in love with her husband, while her husband is too busy to notice because he's flitting from bed to bed around the cul-de-sac, but clearly taking a pass on Meri's bed.

Oh, I think he takes a pass on Janell's bed, as well. Thing is, she prefers it that way. MAYBE he stops at Christine's now and then, but Robin's the one with semi-exclusive rights to the Kodster sausagefest. 

Sorry....visual.  

Having an entire cul-de-sac of Browns will not solve the problem of dealing with a man who doesn't love you in the way you want him to. She can have all 18 kids, plus the wives, standing around the wet bar, and still be the loneliest person on earth if Kody doesn't give a shit, or is too narcissistic to see past the pin head of his own dick.

Mariah hasn't been my favorite Brown child (Mykelti has moved to the bottom rung of the brat ladder of late), but good on her for just letting it fly. I hope that this brings her happiness and maybe some empathy and forgiveness, because I'm really sick of the whole whining about mother and the Catfish. Time to move on, Mariah. 

[MarysWetBar]

7 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

I think the reason meri divorced Kody is because she thought it was the ultimate sacrifice for him (it was for her) and would make him love her again. Kind of like when Robyn gave meri her sacrifice of her uterus -blechhhh!- she saw how gaga that made Kody for Robyn and thought he would value what meri was giving up for him, for the fambly. Didn't work. He said, heythanksbye, and ran off on yet another honeymoon. 

They were very precise with the time of when their relationship went bad-12 years ago-I wonder what happened exactly 12 years ago that made the relationship go sour...what was the catalyst that they can't seem to recover from....

When did Kody have to start pretending to be into Janelle long enough to screw her out of her inheritance? 12 years ago? Hahaha

Seriously though...Meri hates Janelle. Really hates her. It would be difficult sharing your hubby with the woman who used to sleep with your brother. According to last night's show, though, Meri has around 43 brothers and sisters, so maybe she barely knew him either. 

Who has a kid around the age of 12? Not counting Aurorrrrra or Breeeeeannnaaa. Even if Sobbyn forgets who fathered them, we don't. 

[java23]

Correct me if I am wrong. But didn't Meri originally meet JO during some meetings at the Vegas house about getting investors for some pyramid/money making scheme?

I really haven't paid much attention to to catfish timeline either. But it's clear that nothing adds up when you compare things Sam/Jo claimed, things that already aired on the show, and the revisionist history they are claiming now.  Meri said she knew early on the Sam was a woman, but yet during the Alaska trip, she never let on to that. She was ready to leave.  If Jackie and others were warning her online, how come this is the first we heard of it. Even Mariah had expressed doubts about Sam to Meri, so it seems like everyone had a clue but Meri.

I am also not buying her loneliness  or damaged feelings over the divorce. IMO all wives should be equal. not ruled by who got there first. The issues over Meri insisting she had equal monies and special privs isolated her from the others. If she had one child, why didn't she pitch in more. She was not working outside the house when the latest youngsters were born. It seems ridiculous to keep claiming empty nest where there are 10 or so kids next door needing for attention. 

[athousandclowns]

8 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

That "flower" bouquet looked cheap and grubby and homemade in a bad way. Nothing like synthetic flowers at a wedding to set the mood. And gray synthetic flowers at that. 

Amen.  A poster was trying to do a count saying only 16 center pieces BUT each ugly ass "rose" took 10 pedals times 8 in each bouquet plus 16 centerpiece that were just like the bouquets. Then of course boutonnière and corsages. I noticed the bandages on her fingers while doing the demonstration so perhaps the pedals were white to start and are gray from handling them. Yuk yuk. . Only 16 tables to seat 400-500 people ? Most wedding tables fit 8-10.  That little gem would be lost even on a table for 10.   As most people know crafting you spend more than you would if you bought them outright. All the Bell jars you know they were going to use. Maybe they have some of those tin cans from Meris Thankgiving center pieces. Ok so I'm a retired Fresh floral designer. 

I fell asleep watching this so ive go to back it up to see the outings of the cat fished "victims". What the hell does Robyn need to be in on the discussion?? Permission?  Hey bitches it's part of the script so let's play along I'm so nervous to tell you I'm getting out of dodge for real , this time and not to Disneyland.  

[CofCinci]

37 minutes ago, java23 said:

Correct me if I am wrong. But didn't Meri originally meet JO during some meetings at the Vegas house about getting investors for some pyramid/money making scheme?

The Browns troll Vegas for dummies to 'invest' in LIV.  JO happened to be in Vegas with another Victim and happened upon an invite by chance.  LIV gave Kody that convertible, so I figure he just drives around to where tourist/fans flock??? JO/Lindsey and Victim were invited to Meri's -- to be in awe of the wetbar and write a check on Sam's behalf.  The rest is history.  If they didn't try to scam people, they would have never welcomed this loser into their lives.

39 minutes ago, MarysWetBar said:

When did Kody have to start pretending to be into Janelle long enough to screw her out of her inheritance? 12 years ago? Hahaha

Yep.

"Sounded like"?  Did she ever directly discuss the trip/healing with Meri?  Probably not.

Edited January 3, 2017 by CofCinci

[Galloway Cave]

Just remembered I was also ticked off at Kody INSISTING Meri tell Cheryl how he felt about how Meri was handling the Catfish situation (if you ignore it, it doesn't exist). Felt like he was trying to control both of them, telling them to just drop it. Stupid Meri didn't have to tell her but of course she is trained to follow orders. It was a really awkward part of the conversation too. 

[Guest BarkyVonSchnauzer]

Here's the dill...at the beginning of this episode we heard Kody say (for the hundredth time) "If we don't acknowledge [the catfish] or say the word, it will just go away."  

For crying out loud, please just let this 'storyline' go away.

Edited January 3, 2017 by BarkyVonSchnauzer

[Granny58]

4 hours ago, leighroda said:

like 14-15? Im sorry but I'm fairly confident even the Duggar children know what that is... my barbies were doing it as long as I remember, how does anyone over the age of 10 not know that

I didn't know at 15 (or even probably 16 or 17).  However, that was a million years ago.  A bit more sheltered.

[jacksgirl]

Bad things don't just "Go away" because you don't talk about them. Gosh, Kody is such an asshat. Obviously Meri was devastated by this whole misadventure, if she can find someone to help her feel better about it, go for it Meri. Still think she should own up to it. People are realizing that catfishers can be very stealthy and prey on the lonely and vulnerable. I think Meri would garner lots of sympathy if she'd tell the truth.

[LotusFlower]

Also, notice how Cheryl said that she met "Sam" online on a dating site.....in comparison to Meri, who still says that she and Sam were just "friends."  Meri has talked endlessly about this catfish story, but never with any honesty.  Yes, she was lonely, but lonely for a man, because her polygamist husband ignores her and hangs with his other wives.  That's the real story, and there are pictures and videos to prove it!  I'm so tired of Meri and TLC feeding us this b.s. fake story week after week.

Edited January 3, 2017 by LotusFlower

[3girlsforus]

15 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Also, notice how Cheryl said that she met "Sam" online on a dating site.....in comparison to Meri, who still says that she and Sam were just "friends."  Meri has talked endlessly about this catfish story, but never with any honesty.  Yes, she was lonely, but lonely for a man, because her polygamist husband ignores her and hangs with his other wives.  That's the real story, and there are pictures and videos to prove it!  I'm so tired of Meri and TLC feeding us this b.s. fake story week after week.

Mari definitely hasn't been honest but she didn't meet "Sam" on a dating site. She met her doing that stupid pyramid sales thing. LIV or something. Cheryl may have met "Sam" via a dating site but Meri did not.

58 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

The Browns troll Vegas for dummies to 'invest' in LIV.  JO happened to be in Vegas with another Victim and happened upon an invite by chance.  LIV gave Kody that convertible, so I figure he just drives around to where tourist/fans flock??? JO/Lindsey and Victim were invited to Meri's -- to be in awe of the wetbar and write a check on Sam's behalf.  The rest is history.  If they didn't try to scam people, they would have never welcomed this loser into their lives.

Yep.

"Sounded like"?  Did she ever directly discuss the trip/healing with Meri?  Probably not.

I know!! These are the "sister" wives who are supposed to be your support system and the most interest they can show in something you do is to watch the episode on TV?

Edited January 3, 2017 by 3girlsforus

[LotusFlower]

16 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

Mari definitely hasn't been honest but she didn't meet "Sam" on a dating site. She met her doing that stupid pyramid sales thing. LIV or something. Cheryl may have met "Sam" via a dating site but Meri did not.

I didn't mean to imply that Meri met Sam on a dating site and lied about it.  I meant that Meri was lonely for love and romance and attention, which she has not admitted, and got that from Sam.  

[DakotaJustice]

Here's the timeline in real time, as I understand it. 

Sept 2014: Meri files for divorce from Kody (in retrospect we now have determined it wasn't what she wanted - the adoption story is the official reason but I think it's because Kody made her do it, to "save the show".

Dec 2014: Robyn and Kody legally marry and go to Hawaii. Meanwhile Meri goes on a LIV cruise (a tactic by many MLMs to whip the consultants into a frenzy to buy more product and sign up new suckers) and upon her return, tweets that she's going to focus on her LIV "business" 

Dec/Jan 2014/15: using the Sam persona, JO persuades her mark Stacey to finance the first of three trips to Vegas. During this trip, they gain entrance to Meri's home as JO in her Lindsay persona goes to a LIV event. Based on photos the two of them might have been the only ones there. (Around the same time Meri went to Arizona to do a LIV event at a restaurant and the only people there were the employees.)

If memory serves it was around Feb 2015 that some fan checked Clark County records and found the divorce and the remarriage. 

In the beginning of March 2015, the Sam persona contacted Meri through Twitter and the mess began. Google the Bullshit Book Club for info. 

[3girlsforus]

9 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

I didn't mean to imply that Meri met Sam on a dating site and lied about it.  I meant that Meri was lonely for love and romance and attention, which she has not admitted, and got that from Sam.  

Sorry I misunderstood. Yes she definitely was, and is, yearning for love, romance, affection, and attention which she got from Sam and hoped to continue to get from Sam. I think it's unlikely she'll ever admit on TV the extent of her emotional involvement. 

[DakotaJustice]

Also, whether the younger children knew about French kissing or not, it was completely inappropriate for FT&M to show them. 

Clearly, mykelti's mission is to get back at her parents, Kody in particular, and just be the bad seed. FT is happy to go along with it since he, too, is a famewhore. 

[Galloway Cave]

The Bullshit Book Club did an excellent job reviewing the timeline and book.

[mamey2422]

3 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

She has been posting a lot of pro-lesbian/gay posts and naked women pics on social media since April. Probably not something she would do if she wasn't entirely serious about her sexuality, living within that religion and her family.

I follow Mariah on twitter and haven't seen this. Is she posting somewhere else?

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

You know what?  Whether it was staged or not, I think Mariah did it just right.  Her life has been on television for public consumption for the past 7 years or so.  Coming out with the entire film crew/lighting guys/boom operators/catering crew AND her eleventy-six parents in the room?  Brilliant, I say.

 

I don't think it was staged either.  Interesting note: everyone was silent except Janelle, who said "are you serious?" in a tone that suggested she was somewhat giddy that poor ol' Mere was going to have to have another bite of karma sandwich.  Christine, however, said "are you really?" in a tone that seemed legitimately loving and warm.  Meanwhile, Meri sat, shell-shocked.  I'm not sure if these people could pull off a re-make of a moment like that.

ITA. I rewatched the ending, which I didn't see coming, to see the parents' facial expressions/reactions and they all seemed genuine and unrehearsed. 

• Robyn - half-sort of-smile and immediately looked to Meri
• Grandmother - smiled, happy, didnt seemed surprised as if she knew
• Janelle - didn't show her face but we heard her ask the "are you really" question. 
• Christine - no smile, looked a lot like when Mykelti told her about marrying Tony. 
• Kody - stone faces at first then a slight smile
• Meri- totally shell shocked.

[LotusFlower]

3 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

Sorry I misunderstood. Yes she definitely was, and is, yearning for love, romance, affection, and attention which she got from Sam and hoped to continue to get from Sam. I think it's unlikely she'll ever admit on TV the extent of her emotional involvement. 

Right, she'll never cop to the love/sex part, because it's embarrassing, but also because it would expose polygamy, and in turn the show, as a fraud.  The very thesis of the show is how great and supportive this lifestyle is, how they're one big, happy family, and how sister wives support each other in a way that we monogamists don't understand.  But of course the show has shown the exact opposite - it's really a show about one man who has four wives and four separate families.  The wives are miserable and bitter, they openly dislike each other, the kids are usually ignored, and the father works on his ego and his hair, and bed-hops from wife to wife (although probably just the young one).  

[Galloway Cave]

26 minutes ago, mamey2422 said:

I follow Mariah on twitter and haven't seen this. Is she posting somewhere else?

Tumblr. Over in her thread, there are links posted and discussion/dissection during the last few weeks.

[seasick]

It seems the other wives are somewhat sympathetic and supportive to Meri, some of it out of loyalty to the family unit, but on the other hand I think they are pissed and rightfully so.   They all tried to go the extra yard to be  supportive and make Meri feel relevant when Meri spoke to them all about dealing with empty nest when Mariah first left and then the decision not to have another baby etc.    But then to find out that Meri's distancing behavior,  weight loss, refusal to engage with the others wasn't depression in need of support, but rather  from cyber-sexing it up in an online affair was a kick in the teeth.  I'm sure they felt suckered and used.  

It appears Meri has always held herself aloof from the other two wives and never wanted to be a part of the whole which is why I think the other two are okay with ignoring Meri. They stepped up that time but I'm sure they're saying to themselves "never again".  Her lack of honesty and openness to a friendship or relationship overall is very disrespectful to everyone.  When she was going to help Robyn with SWC she bailed on that "to go back to school" (and she didn't) which would have amounted to a few hours a week. Robyn had 4 kids.  It crushed Robyn and that was the purpose. It was a show of dominance from Meri because Robyn offered Meri her working uterus and Meri perceived that somehow Robyn might feel superior and Meri felt  'less than".   I think Robyn has really tried with Meri but she has had it too.  Meri is just a suck.  She gives nothing back.  She gave Robyn the benefit of having a legit marriage for the sake of the adoption because there was no reason not to. The affair made Meri's ' legal marriage" all the more meaningless so why not.  It was no sacrifice.  The catfish scandal proved once again that Meri is self-absorbed and doesn't feel as though she owes it to anyone to share of herself or be honest.    Meri feels above all that.   She''s basically a very jealous, bitter and self-pitying woman whether she faces it or not.  

I was glad they were revisiting the catfish scandal and Kody and Meri's relationship because it was such a huge elephant in the room.  Still.   Everything else was a farce until that was addressed. I think TLC finally realized it.  It was like they were stepping over a dead body in the room for every wedding or whatever else dumb thing they were up to until Meri could come clean --but of course that didn't happen.  Her attempts to save face just makes her look more foolish.  It's easy to see how she could believe those lies because she seriously thinks we can't see thru hers, even after the truth has been splattered over every form of media.     

I understand how and why Meri got sucked in and I truly am sympathetic to that.   Sometimes you don't know how empty or lonely you are feeling until someone hits that spot and then it's like an addiction.  I think most adults would truly understand that if she had just been honest with herself and others and had just been human about it. 

I wish Mariah's big secret was about changing her major--I think doing a whole deep-breath "big announcement" about it was strange.   It made a bigger deal about it than it is. and I don't think the show could force them to do it that way if the girl wanted to relay it in a low-key manner.  It's so common and accepted now, it's pretty much of a big 'so what'.  She knows her family is going to accept her for it.   To me,  ELLEN was "brave'".  The fight is over now.  These days she's just another kid who is gay.   And frankly I think the whole thing has a little odor to it.  I'm not one who usually would doubt someone's sexual orientation, but in this case I think it may be a  premature call.  Two sisters taking over the family with their weddings, and Mariah's lost in the shuffle.  Mariah discovers her mother could be wrapped up in someone other than Mariah and decides to reject mom and  punish her ad infinitum for not being perfect and having a human failing.  Wonder where she learned to withhold affection from those who crossed her  (real or imagined). Guess she's managed to get Herself the dominant, upper hand there.   So I'm sure she has a need to distinguish herself somehow and to have another reason to distance herself from Mom and claim now that Mom can never understand or relate to her.  I hope she's always 'free to be' whatever that turns out to be but this smells of more rebellion, shock value and punishment.  I think she's a cruel kid.  

[Galloway Cave]

16 minutes ago, lma said:

finally getting the attention I'm sure she craves

But Mariah has always gotten a lot of attention from both her parents. She was the spoiled princess of wife #1. She got the ride to a private university. She's been featured, for better AND worse, fairly prominently on the show. Yeah, she's pissed at her mom for the catfish situation but I can't see her going to the extreme of saying she is gay just to hurt her mom. The fact that her mom has supported her (on twitter) shows that would have been a big backfire. 

Mariah left Vegas for a reason. She could have stayed and been the queen bee of the cuddle-sac, riding herd on the parents and other kids and staying right in front of the cameras. That's much easier than announcing she's gay when she isn't. 

[Lsk02]

I wasn't sure if I should put this here or in Meri's thread, but based on wardrobe I'm wondering if Mariah's announcement was filmed fairly recently. I noticed right away that Meri was wearing one of her new LulaRoe outfits in both the scene and in the interview about the scene. I looked back through Meri's thread because I thought I remembered seeing it here, and she's wearing that exact outfit in an Instagram post from November.

I'm thinking producers caught wind of the online speculation about Mariah and threw that scene together quickly. Similar to the whole divorce thing that came out before it was on the show a few seasons ago. 

[Roslyn]

3 hours ago, MarysWetBar said:

When did Kody have to start pretending to be into Janelle long enough to screw her out of her inheritance? 12 years ago? Hahaha

Who has a kid around the age of 12? Not counting Aurorrrrra or Breeeeeannnaaa. Even if Sobbyn forgets who fathered them, we don't. 

12 years ago from 2016 would roughly be a year-ish before they moved into the Lehi house.  The two kids from about that timeline would be Janelle's youngest Savanah and Christine's Ysabel (sp?).  If I remember correctly Janelle was living on her own with her kids separate and inherited money that was used to buy the Lehi house.  With the grand promise from King Kody that they would all be together BUT in separate living quarters for wifely autonomy.  Meaning that Meri and Janelle could ignore each other for the good of the family.

[Armchair Critic]

4 hours ago, GussieK said:

 

I have never been able to get a concise timeline of the catfishing scandal, and I have never been able to sit through all the episodes. They don't explain it clearly anyway.  

 

Outline of the Catfishing from All About The Tea

[Alapaki]

I'm pretty sure Christine doesn't know the definition of "library".  Just calling the room that won't make it so.  Try putting a book or two in there at least!

Catfish-wise, Meri started out talking about how the Sam relationship was purely platonic and how she hoped to introduce "him" to Kody, et al.  But not 15 minutes later she's commiserating with Cheryl about how Lindsay was gushing to her about how much Sam had "fallen" for her.  And, of course, who sends sexual pix to prospective business partners?  

Then, when Meri and Cheryl were talking to hot-therapist, and they were discussing "Sam"'s m.o. of preying on lonely, divorced, women with no support system who were all alone, Meri was nodding along checking off all the boxes ("me, me, me . . . ").  But . . . isn't the loneliness, divorce, lack of support system, isolation the exact thing that plural marriage boasts about eliminating?  I can't decide if Meri is a worse salesperson for that multi-level-scam or for polygamy!

And finally, during that meeting with Nancy, they both tried to sell the idea that plural marriage is what prevented their marital discord from coming to a head sooner.  But the only reason it did so, to the extent that it actually did, was because it gave Kody an outlet to completely ignore Meri and thus avoid the conflict.  What they are, or should be if they really cared for each other, going through right now is what they should've been dealing with apparently more than a decade ago.  Any arrangement that allows a marriage to fester in that sort of limbo for so long is not something to brag about.

Ultimately, these folks are trying to spin the unspinnable.  

Oh, and:

Quote

Also, whether the younger children knew about French kissing or not, it was completely inappropriate for FT&M to show them. 

I was really hoping they followed that up by saying "and then they showed up was a blow-job is . . . "

[Featherhat]

43 minutes ago, seasick said:

I wish Mariah's big secret was about changing her major--I think doing a whole deep-breath "big announcement" about it was strange.   It made a bigger deal about it than it is. and I don't think the show could force them to do it that way if the girl wanted to relay it in a low-key manner.  It's so common and accepted now, it's pretty much of a big 'so what'.  She knows her family is going to accept her for it.   To me,  ELLEN was "brave'".  The fight is over now.  These days she's just another kid who is gay.   And frankly I think the whole thing has a little odor to it.  I'm not one who usually would doubt someone's sexual orientation, but in this case I think it may be a  premature call.  Two sisters taking over the family with their weddings, and Mariah's lost in the shuffle.  Mariah discovers her mother could be wrapped up in someone other than Mariah and decides to reject mom and  punish her ad infinitum for not being perfect and having a human failing.  Wonder where she learned to withhold affection from those who crossed her  (real or imagined). Guess she's managed to get Herself the dominant, upper hand there.   So I'm sure she has a need to distinguish herself somehow and to have another reason to distance herself from Mom and claim now that Mom can never understand or relate to her.  I hope she's always 'free to be' whatever that turns out to be but this smells of more rebellion, shock value and punishment.  I think she's a cruel kid.  

I wish this was true. Yes being gay is much, much more accepted these days but that doesn't mean it isn't a big deal to come out to your family (or on national TV for that matter) especially if you come from a very conservative religious or other conservative background. There have been reports of teens coming out to their parents expecting it to be no big deal because their parents watched Glee and getting a nasty shock. If that scene was in the slightest bit real it was a shock to her parents, (especially as some of them may have still thought they forked over Westminster tuition so Mariah could go to their old AUB church and find Mr Polygamous Charming. I'm glad her family accepted it (at least on camera - they had to considering their own lawsuits) but it doesn't mean it wasn't brave.

I've no idea what Mariah actually feels, may it is "just a phase" (oh Lesbian Until Graduation Sterotypes) but she's been publically posting lady loving pictures, quotes and articles since April 2016, add in some soul searching time in private and it's likely been over a year at least. I think if she just wanted some attention and stick it to her family their are easier ways to get it (see: Mykelti) that don't involve something that the LDS and most other Mormon groups have staked out as the Big Huge Sin.

[Madding crowd]

I don't think we can say Meri shouldn't be lonely or depressed; those are emotions you cannot control. And volunteering is a good thing, but it's not likely to provide deep emotional connections. I have experienced loneliness during periods when my husband was working three jobs; I think there is a special kind of loneliness a married woman experiences that single people don't. Once you are married, you expect your spouse to provide a certain amount of companionship as well as sex and emotional support. If you are not getting it, you will be lonely. I am also sure Meri's feelings and actions are well known by Kody, if not discussed on air. As far as her needing to get forgiveness from the other wives-I'm not sure how I feel about that. It seems like Kody has individual relationships with each wife and those relationships should have some element of privacy from the others. As far as the comments that Meri should spend her time taking care of the other kids; I believe she does spend some time with the kids. However, Christine has her mom living in, Robyn has her niece, and Janelle has no little kids. None of them work either, so they don't require babysitters.

I have been finding this whole season kind of boring. I have a mild dislike for some of the Browns, but no hatred so I am not watching in order to see a lonely, sad women be punished because she fell for a scammer. I thought the engagement pictures of Tony and Mykelti were all kinds of cheesy which fits in with the general tone of the family. Mariah's announcement? I don't know-it seemed an odd way to announce it. My nephew came out as gay a few years ago and his parents are extremely supportive. But they still had to get used to it, and Meri will too. If your child tells you they are gay, it is not that it is worse or better than being straight, it is just different. And being different in any way takes some time. 

My final thoughts on the catfish thing: I'm not sure I can agree that Meri is breaking the rules of their religion. The AUB religion they once embraced became the church of Kody, and now seems to be not much at all. They were originally against kissing, now Mykelti and her fiancé are teaching the younger girls how to French Kiss. The divorce between Meri and Kody was not done for any religious reason but because Robyn wanted the legal marriage. So, I think Meri and the other wives are really in a limbo land which is part of the reason they are so unhappy. I don't see Kody as being in love with any of them anymore (he was in love with Meri and then Robyn), and I think they are all unhappy in their own way. 

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, seasick said:

It's so common and accepted now, it's pretty much of a big 'so what'.  She knows her family is going to accept her for it.   To me,  ELLEN was "brave'".  The fight is over now.  These days she's just another kid who is gay.

Things are definely much better now, and easier for young ppl. to come out, but there's still a lot of homophobia in society, especially in religious circles.  Mariah not only came out to her Fundamentalist Mormon family, but one where her bed-hopping father said that the thought of one of his wives being intimate with another man was "vulgar" and "sickened" him.  To think that he's ok with his daughter having sex with a woman - even though he says he's accepting of it, no way do I believe him.  This family (or TLC) has shielded their religious views for a reason.

[Sista Snarky]

1 hour ago, lma said:

I'm with you. Well of course none of us know for sure, but I see a kid who has discovered that the people she loves most are not as perfect as she thought (newsflash kid: your're not the only one who has had to face that), she's angry and disappointed, and we all know what a brat she is. She's around a bunch of educated, free thinkers anyway, so it sounds like she's adapted this persona because she's experimenting with something new, elevating her thinking (in her mind) with all her talk of feminism, sticking it to her family and her "religion", and finally getting the attention I'm sure she craves, especially by does doing it so publicly.

I could certainly be wrong and who cares if I am? I don't have a dog in this fight, but something about Mariah's newfound identity doesn't seem entirely genuine to me.

Time will tell.

I agree. Time will tell.

I'll wait & see if there's some other agenda behind this announcement. She's coming up on her last semester at school & I don't get the impression that  Mariah wants to be a self-sufficient adult.  The way she announced that was like "I joined the gay club" & next week she's gonna put on her "gay uniform" It just does not ring genuine to me.

Maybe she's going to try to "negotiate" for something. 

Edited January 3, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[Roslyn]

39 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

I'm pretty sure Christine doesn't know the definition of "library".  Just calling the room that won't make it so.  Try putting a book or two in there at least!

It was King Kody who christened that room "The Library".  They were doing a walk through of the houses when they were being built the contractor left a door opening where it didn't belong.  When Christine was standing there it was Kody who jumped up to make the mistake (fixing it will slow down the construction timeline) into a "sell" for Christine and he stated that it was the Library!! She immediately went along with it.

[Alapaki]

2 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

It was King Kody who christened that room "The Library".  They were doing a walk through of the houses when they were being built the contractor left a door opening where it didn't belong.  When Christine was standing there it was Kody who jumped up to make the mistake (fixing it will slow down the construction timeline) into a "sell" for Christine and he stated that it was the Library!! She immediately went along with it.

I'll be damned if that isn't a perfect metaphor for how he sold himself to her as a "husband"

[seasick]

Well, if she was posting in kind on Twitter then safe to say she wasn't so scared as to go out of her way to conceal it. And if it takes "bravery" to stop the presses and announce it on national tv then why do it?  It only sensationalizes it and it's really nobody's business (the public) to where it requires an announcement and it's Not really a big deal.  Yes people will find out and then --so what?

I don't know if it's a ;phase either but regardless I think it;s coming in handy to reclaim center stage and throwing her parents for a loop.  If it wasn't about that then I think she would have gone about it in a less sensational way and also given her mother and father the respect to speak to them first and not make them just another audience member.

 I'm sure the parents were surprised.  And I get the religious thing that makes it something that could be in conflict and therefore a little more touchy a subject.  But there is no way they would every admit to being against it and  it's quite apparent from their attitudes on the show that they would be accepting of it.   I agree they probably assumed from Mariah's stronger religious affiliation and polygamous views that she would be the last one you would think is gay, but what else can they do but shrug and move on.  

I'm sure for some kids they sense they are taking a risk.   I get that   Or they're surprised when their parents are upset.  But if they know their family won't accept them, the bond is broken whether they tell them or not.  Anyway, that's not the case here.  

[Sista Snarky]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I don't think we can say Meri shouldn't be lonely or depressed; those are emotions you cannot control. And volunteering is a good thing, but it's not likely to provide deep emotional connections. I have experienced loneliness during periods when my husband was working three jobs; I think there is a special kind of loneliness a married woman experiences that single people don't. Once you are married, you expect your spouse to provide a certain amount of companionship as well as sex and emotional support. If you are not getting it, you will be lonely. I am also sure Meri's feelings and actions are well known by Kody, if not discussed on air. As far as her needing to get forgiveness from the other wives-I'm not sure how I feel about that. It seems like Kody has individual relationships with each wife and those relationships should have some element of privacy from the others. As far as the comments that Meri should spend her time taking care of the other kids; I believe she does spend some time with the kids. However, Christine has her mom living in, Robyn has her niece, and Janelle has no little kids. None of them work either, so they don't require babysitters.

I have been finding this whole season kind of boring. I have a mild dislike for some of the Browns, but no hatred so I am not watching in order to see a lonely, sad women be punished because she fell for a scammer. I thought the engagement pictures of Tony and Mykelti were all kinds of cheesy which fits in with the general tone of the family. Mariah's announcement? I don't know-it seemed an odd way to announce it. My nephew came out as gay a few years ago and his parents are extremely supportive. But they still had to get used to it, and Meri will too. If your child tells you they are gay, it is not that it is worse or better than being straight, it is just different. And being different in any way takes some time. 

My final thoughts on the catfish thing: I'm not sure I can agree that Meri is breaking the rules of their religion. The AUB religion they once embraced became the church of Kody, and now seems to be not much at all. They were originally against kissing, now Mykelti and her fiancé are teaching the younger girls how to French Kiss. The divorce between Meri and Kody was not done for any religious reason but because Robyn wanted the legal marriage. So, I think Meri and the other wives are really in a limbo land which is part of the reason they are so unhappy. I don't see Kody as being in love with any of them anymore (he was in love with Meri and then Robyn), and I think they are all unhappy in their own way. 

The other wives were also entitled to their own privacy...when Meri was "sharing" information about the  entire family with the Catfish.

She cried about how afraid she was...while there were also minor children running around the joint. The Catfish even claimed that Meri put 3 or 4 year old Sol on the phone to talk to "Batman" That is insane.

Safety is a family affair & every one of the adults should have been made aware that there was the potential for a dangerous situation.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[smores]

My takeaway from the episode is this: Mykelti apparently wants to use dryer lint as flowers in her bouquets.  WTF?  

[gingerella]

12 minutes ago, smores said:

My takeaway from the episode is this: Mykelti apparently wants to use dryer lint as flowers in her bouquets.  WTF?  

My takeaway was that Mariah now thinks coming out means you need to crayon your eyebrows and wear a backwards baseball cap.

Edited January 3, 2017 by gingerella