S08.E05: Another Catfishing

[ReadMeLattice]

Well, JO actually reported a few things on the blog that we later found out from the show were true, but which Meri had previously tried to hide. I think that's why people are still interested in what she has to say. 

[Jellybeans]

I can't wait for the wedding episode lol!  :-)

[Roslyn]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I think the other polygamist you're referring to is Brady Williams.  I think he was a much better representative of a "proper" polygamist husband.  The guy looked absolutely exhausted at all times, and worked hard in his construction business.  He greeted each of his children every morning, and said goodnight to each of his wives. 

I remember watching the show with Brady.  This guy was one of the ones that Kody and crew visited on the sister wives show.  I can't remember his name, he had two wives with straight dark hair and he always talked like he had tobacco in his lip.  He was the one who make the statement that polygamy isn't just about sex because he thought he had TOO much sex.  He also pissed off Janelle when he talked openly about his wives cycles aligning.  She got up and left with that conversation. I thought he was basically an ass, but a different kind of ass.  But when he said that if his wives were feeling jealous that meant he wasn't doing something right.  I thought that made sense and yes...he needed to be the glue for it all, a leader.  Then a TH with Kody about how he doesn't take responsibility for his wives emotional well being.  It made me want to throw something at him.

[RedheadZombie]

2 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

I remember watching the show with Brady.  This guy was one of the ones that Kody and crew visited on the sister wives show.  I can't remember his name, he had two wives with straight dark hair and he always talked like he had tobacco in his lip.  He was the one who make the statement that polygamy isn't just about sex because he thought he had TOO much sex.  He also pissed off Janelle when he talked openly about his wives cycles aligning.  She got up and left with that conversation. I thought he was basically an ass, but a different kind of ass.  But when he said that if his wives were feeling jealous that meant he wasn't doing something right.  I thought that made sense and yes...he needed to be the glue for it all, a leader.  Then a TH with Kody about how he doesn't take responsibility for his wives emotional well being.  It made me want to throw something at him.

I think that guy was a redneck, and he practiced polygamy by choice, not religion.  He did seem more in tune with his wives.  But he was more unappealing than even your typical polygamist, IMO.

[CofCinci]

14 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

I remember watching the show with Brady.  This guy was one of the ones that Kody and crew visited on the sister wives show.  I can't remember his name, he had two wives with straight dark hair and he always talked like he had tobacco in his lip.  He was the one who make the statement that polygamy isn't just about sex because he thought he had TOO much sex.  He also pissed off Janelle when he talked openly about his wives cycles aligning.  She got up and left with that conversation. I thought he was basically an ass, but a different kind of ass.  But when he said that if his wives were feeling jealous that meant he wasn't doing something right.  I thought that made sense and yes...he needed to be the glue for it all, a leader.  Then a TH with Kody about how he doesn't take responsibility for his wives emotional well being.  It made me want to throw something at him.

Janelle hates Meri so much that she doesn't even want to menstruate at the same time.

[Bitsy]

I actually felt for Kody a little bit during that therapy session.  Meri was unhappy, Meri cheated on him online, Meri threatened to leave him, Meri treated him like crap because the catfish poisoned her mind against him, and then when it was all over and Meri had cried 2 seasons full of tears about her victimization, she still told Kody to stay away from her.

So now Meri and the therapist are informing Kody that it's time for him to do the work to fix his marriage and he's supposed to enthusiastically agree.    Kody didn't have much say in what happened, and now he's being told what to do.   And if he expresses any reluctance, then he's the jerk.

I think that would be hard for anyone, but particularly someone like Kody who needs to always feel like he's in charge and he's directing the course of his family.

I think the therapist ought to work with Kody on his feelings.  I think he's been trying to be the good guy by being sympathetic towards Meri and forgiving her, but there must be unexpressed anger there.

[Starsandbucks]

My apologies if anyone answered this as I'm only through six pages of responses so far. I'm still on Christmas vacation and have been re-watching old seasons, which is a lot more fun when you know the backstory of how much everyone dislikes each other.

Anyway, it's the Q&A episode in season 5 where they address how they would feel if any of their children came out as gay. Oddly enough, all the parents share their thoughts on the matter (pretty supportive) except for Meri who remains silent. 

[Adiba]

I wonder if the reactions to Mariah's coming out were real not because they all didn't know, but because those who did had no idea that she was about to announce it to all of the parents on camera? 

The thing I find interesting about Mariah coming out publicly is how it jibes with their religious beliefs. Mariah was the one most upset about leaving Lehi and their church there,was open to polygamy, and wanted to go to that college to be closer to others with her beliefs. Supposedly, the reason that Kody et al are living plural marriage is for religious reasons, too--and that was one of the reasons why Mariah was ostensibly so upset about the betrayal aspect of the catfishing? After all, secularly and legally Meri is divorced from Kody. For all intents and purposes she is emotionally and physically separated from him as well. So really the only betrayal is spiritually, isn't it? And if Mariah no longer believes in the tenets of the AUB, Meri's trangressions aren't that egregious.

Does the AUB accept homosexuality? Or does it accept it as long as one is chaste?

Edited January 4, 2017 by Adiba

[ladle]

Update: I found the show on iTunes, where it is only one hour and twenty minutes without the commercials (wtf, TLC?).  Yes, I paid $2.00 for it, which makes me feel a little dirty.  My takeaways:
 

--I guess they're never going to address the voicemails and naughty banana pics, huh?  Ah well. 

--It's sad that Meri seems more comfortable and easy with Cheryl than she does with any of her sister wives.

--Christine's hair looks fantastic!

--Kody's fantasy about beating the catfisher with a bat, and Meri's delighted-schoolgirl reaction to it, gave me chills.

--I love how as Mariah was saying to Christine "I'm not going to tell you [what the secret it]" the camera pans to Mariah kicking off her Birkenstocks.  There's a cameraman out there with a sense of humor.  :)  (Seriously, though, good for Mariah.  That scene couldn't have been easy for her.)

--Meri should spend her lonely empty nest years going back to school to get her doctorate in psychology.  Her dissertation could be titled "The Mind of the Catfish."  I would read it.  It would be more interesting than this show.

[zenme]

Speaking of "the mind of a catfish," why the heck did Meri want to see the counselor to get into the mind of the catfish?? It's wanting to get into the mind of the person catfish-ed that she should be curious about!

[Celia Rubenstein]

17 hours ago, Alapaki said:

And finally, during that meeting with Nancy, they both tried to sell the idea that plural marriage is what prevented their marital discord from coming to a head sooner.  But the only reason it did so, to the extent that it actually did, was because it gave Kody an outlet to completely ignore Meri and thus avoid the conflict.  What they are, or should be if they really cared for each other, going through right now is what they should've been dealing with apparently more than a decade ago.  Any arrangement that allows a marriage to fester in that sort of limbo for so long is not something to brag about.

Ultimately, these folks are trying to spin the unspinnable.  

I am so glad you mentioned this because to me it was the most remarkable aspect of the entire three hours.

Kody and Meri tried SO HARD to characterize polygamy as what saved their union instead of what tore it apart.  They really believe that the distraction caused by the presence of other wives/multiple marriages was a good thing that prevented their problems from boiling over.  Kody flat out said he wasn't sure they would have lasted this long if not for plural marriage.

It's like it has never occurred to them that maybe if they had been forced to deal with each other one-on-one, things might not BE boiling over.  They could have resolved their difficulties years ago and moved on in their relationship and been happy. 

They completely deny that the issues they are facing could have anything to do with Kody dividing his time among four women and scads of children.  I find that almost impossible to believe, given what I have seen of Meri and her obvious loneliness.  Even if you accept what they were saying - that plural marriage didn't cause their problems - is it really a good thing that plural marriage "diluted" their problems and resulted in them spending the last 12 years so unhappy with each other (Meri in particular, since she doesn't even have another spouse to run and hide with, unlike Kody).  Is this "buffer" polygamy provided really a good thing in the long run?  Because if it was just the two of them and they couldn't work things out, maybe they would have called it quits a decade ago and moved on.  Kody could be with women like Janelle and Christine and Robyn who seem to not mind sharing a husband and Meri could have found a man she got along with better, one who wanted only her - instead of both of them being miserable with each other for the last 12 years.

I've never seen so much denial, such a lack of awareness.  Thank heavens their kids all seem to be rejecting the misery that seems unavoidable in a polygamous marriage.  They see it for what it is. Good for them!

[ginger90]

Yup plural is wonderful

https://mobile.twitter.com/realkodybrown/status/815750572993220608?p=v

[Marigold]

Maybe the wives suspected but I think Kody was surprised.  The camera stayed on him for affect.  He is so self involved, he would never suspect a thing.  

[toodles]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Yup plural is wonderful

https://mobile.twitter.com/realkodybrown/status/815750572993220608?p=v

And meri sends a tweet in response.  I guess they never sit down with a cup of coffee and talk things over like a real husband and wife.

I have a friend from Pakistan and he's Muslim.  We were talking about polygamy once and I guess it's not uncommon there.  He was telling me about one of his relatives who is a polygamist.  Their faith says you treat all wives equally.  What you do for one, you do for all.  I think the relative was an uncle.

Anyway one of the uncle's wives was dying from cancer.  The whole family came lovingly together to take care of their family member.  The wives encouraged the husband to spend as much time with his dying wife as he could because they knew that he would treat them the same way.  

So yeah, the Brown's style of polygamy is beyond screwed up.  They can't even share a kitchen.  Plenty of blame to go around here.

[Tabbygirl521]

11 hours ago, ginger90 said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/realkodybrown/status/811729755414200320?p=v

No shit, Sherlock. We already know you, Kody. 

[VedaPierce]

On January 2, 2017 at 5:41 PM, 3girlsforus said:

I understand this and yes - she should be doing a bunch of these things.  It would help her be more fulfilled but she has a right to expect intimacy (and I'm talking emotional intimacy, not just physical) from her husband. She doesn't need a man, but a man made a commitment to her. She is lonely because she is watching that man who is supposed to be her partner basically ignore her and ignore their relationship. If you were talking about a monogamous relationship and the man was neglectful and emotionally abusive to the woman, you'd feel badly and understand that she's upset and lonely. Most on this board have said that whether it makes sense to us or not, Meri cheated with the online relationship and the fact that Kody is boffing 3 other women isn't relevant because that was part of the agreement. So it works both ways. Kody made the commitment to her to be her husband. There are expectations from that relationship and Meri has a right to expect them. So a married woman with a neglectful husband is going to be lonely no matter how many hobbies or activities she gets involved in.

But Kody's not going to change. This is who he is and this is what it will be -with him. How much longer is she going to sit and complain about it? He's not going to change. Not ever. He doesn't want to. She can have all the expectations she wants, but what's the point if they aren't being met now and won't be met later? Ok, let's all listen to her whine about it next season, and the season after that, and the season after that. When does she finally take accountability for her lot in life? I'm sorry but I'm all out of shits to give for Meri and her stagnation. Either accept what you have and learn to dill, or do something about it, yes, on your own, like many STRONG women do every day. Oh, and get a job. She's too young for retirement. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by VedaPierce

[VedaPierce]

On January 2, 2017 at 7:09 PM, laurakaye said:

Not only is Meri lonely, she's palpably lonely...I cannot think of another person on reality tv who exudes loneliness and sadness like Meri does.  It's why, as much as she drives me crazy, it's hard to be completely unsympathetic because she is the embodiment of a woman who is still very much in love with her husband, while her husband is too busy to notice because he's flitting from bed to bed around the cul-de-sac, but clearly taking a pass on Meri's bed.

She wants Kody, until she doesn't want Kody, like when she finds what she thinks is a rich stud that will take care of her in the manor to which she's become accustomed. Then when that blows up in her face, she wants Kody again. She so obviously hates polygamy- yet that's what she signed up for all those years ago. I'm not falling for her act now. She was incredibly demanding back before catfish -wet bar anyone?-, awful to Christine when Christine came to her for guidance about dealing with her unhappiness with Robyn - she was so smug and cold sitting in that bed, listening to Christine cry about it, and giving her NOTHING, taking 1/4 of the loot even though she only had 1 kid, demanding as big a house as the others with tons of kids because she always WANTED more children -such nerve! Now, she really is immersing herself in her roll of VICTIM - yes, I said VICTIM. she's not getting my sympathy. She did for a hot minute, then I remembered who I was dealing with.

and btw, if I caught my husband up to the same shenanigans as Meri, with some twittering ape, I'd be taking many a pass on his bed too.

Edited January 5, 2017 by VedaPierce

[Armchair Critic]

4 hours ago, Roslyn said:

I can't remember his name, he had two wives with straight dark hair

Joe Darger who married two cousins, then later took another wife who was his wife's twin(!) sister.

[Celia Rubenstein]

From Kody's twitter:

Quote

When I validate a wife's feelings and concerns, it is NOT a confession of my own guilt

Because god forbid you should ever confess your own guilt ... or failings ... or shortcomings ... or role in a problem.  Heaven forbid.

What an incredible douche.  

Since when has Kody ever validated his wifeseses feelings or concerns, anyway?  I don't think I've ever seen it.  And now I know why ... he is afraid someone will think doing so is an admission that he is less than perfect.  And here I was thinking he was just a self-centered, insensitive narcissistic asshole.  But it turns out he is an insecure self-centered, insensitive narcissistic asshole.

Who knew! 

[Sista Snarky]

32 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

She wants Kody, until she doesn't want Kody, like when she finds what she thinks is a rich stud that will take care of her in the manor to which she's become accustomed. Then when that blows up in her face, she wants Kody again. She so obviously hates polygamy- yet that's what she signed up for all those years ago. I'm not falling for her act now. She was incredibly demanding back before catfish -wet bar anyone?-, awful to Christine when Christine came to her for guidance about dealing with her unhappiness with Robyn - she was so smug and cold sitting in that bed, listening to Christine cry about it, and giving her NOTHING. Now she really is immersing herself in her roll of VICTIM - yes, I said VICTIM. she's not getting my sympathy. She did for a hot minute, then I remembered who I was dealing with.

and btw, if I caught my husband up to the same shenanigans as Meri, with some twittering ape, I'ld be taking many a pass at his bed too.

Amen to that Veda!

The tears & fears  of a victim are now the shits & giggle winks on Twitter. Like it's all good...I'm not leaving so we need to hit the reset button. She'll never learn that Twitter is not her friend. 

Emotional intimacy? I don't know a person  alive other than a pretend Catfish that would ever be able to navigate Meri. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[ReadMeLattice]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...Part of the reason I don't have sympathy for Meri is her materialism. Had she fallen for a guy who gave her unconditional emotional support, I'd be singing a different tune. I could buy the "she was neglected and lonely" thing. But by all accounts, the catfish was an asshole to her. Her voicemails suggest a relationship that was desperate on her part, frantically begging for him to call or not be angry anymore. So the "guy" wasn't kind. But he WAS rich. And I think that was a much bigger part of her being willing to leave Kody than "his love" ever was. She's not going to get a job or live a less extravagant lifestyle. Given a choice, she'd choose a loveless marriage with a wealthy lifestyle over a loving relationship in a poor or middling one. She just thought she could get wealth and a hotter, younger dude who wanted to be monogamous. And I don't think the monogamy was the biggest part of that equation, or at least it was only half. 

[Christina]

6 hours ago, zenme said:

Speaking of "the mind of a catfish," why the heck did Meri want to see the counselor to get into the mind of the catfish?? It's wanting to get into the mind of the person catfish-ed that she should be curious about!

I think Meri knows what headspace she was in that made her vulnerable to that vile piece of trash, but she will never admit it because it is that polygamy is a failure. Wanting to know what would make a person so cruel that they take pleasure in causing others pain is understandable to me, because it's something I don't think I will ever understand. 

I'm not going to JOs blog, and I truly hope the Browns don't either. Ignoring her will not make her go away or stop, Kody, as long as people keep paying attention, and I can see why they would want to know what is being said, but she is only doing it to continue hurting Meri; don't give her that power.

I am also of the opinion and have been from the start that Kody and Robyn are so narcissistic that they believed they could put white gold prices on ugly sterling silver jewelry and people would flock to buy it. Robyn opened a PO Box for people to send baby gifts, and people did. They had no idea that the public would not want such ugly items, and were quite upset that they had a lot of looky loos but no buyers. They honestly believed people couldn't wait to send them money. I don't think it was just a story line, especially since they tried to keep the store running for a while. They failed, because they were too cheap to pay for appropriate hosting and a real legitimate shopping cart. If they had the pieces looked at by a mock jury, they would have learned that no one would be willing to purchase what they were selling for the price they were asking, but again, they just expected it, in part because of all the Twitter followers blowing smoke up their asses. 

I'm not sure I think STRIVE is a storyline as much as I think it is just another Brown family scam. People suggest to Janelle that she is an inspiration for her weight loss all the time on Twitter, and I suspect STRIVE reached out to her and Kody said, "Hell, yeah!" If she had actual business sense, she would have tried to sell herself to Weight Watchers or Nutrisystems based on her Twitter account. They would have paid her to lose weight. But STRIVE doesn't actually require her to do anything but tweet a few times a week and allow them to use her name on articles. That's right up her alley.

[Granny58]

6 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Joe Darger who married two cousins, then later took another wife who was his wife's twin(!) sister.

Oh, blech.

[ladle]

9 hours ago, Marigold said:

Maybe the wives suspected but I think Kody was surprised.  The camera stayed on him for affect.  He is so self involved, he would never suspect a thing.  

I thought it was funny when he guessed med school acceptance, and Mariah was like, "Uh, I haven't applied."  Way to stay engaged in your kids' lives! 

[laurakaye]

12 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

It's like it has never occurred to them that maybe if they had been forced to deal with each other one-on-one, things might not BE boiling over.  They could have resolved their difficulties years ago and moved on in their relationship and been happy. 

Your whole post was great, but this stood out to me: if they had been forced to dill one-on-one, in a monogamous marriage - things would be completely different for them.  Given what we know of Meri, I think she assumed that as Legal Wife #1, she would somehow be able to straddle the line between plural and monogamy...she'd give her okey-dokey on the extra wives while still enjoying the benefits of being The Legal One, the most important one, the one who gets to call the shots, the one who was there first and called dibs on Kody, etc.  She keeps wanting to dill with Kody and their issues as a monogamous wife would.  But she's not in that type of marriage, so it doesn't work that way.  Plus, she married a narcissistic man-child, so that doesn't help.

 

9 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

She wants Kody, until she doesn't want Kody, like when she finds what she thinks is a rich stud that will take care of her in the manor to which she's become accustomed. Then when that blows up in her face, she wants Kody again.

+++++++++1.  And she thinks that she is entitled to this, and she doesn't understand why she can't have it this way.  She really does need intensive therapy, and I don't mean the type that Nancy provides - the "ignore the big elephant in the room with the stupid haircut."  REAL therapy.

 

8 hours ago, Sista Snarky said:

The tears & fears  of a victim are now the shits & giggle winks on Twitter. Like it's all good...I'm not leaving so we need to hit the reset button. She'll never learn that Twitter is not her friend. 

THIS so much, I can't even.  First of all, Kody - shut up on Twitter for saying the catfish "woke you up."  Nothing is going to wake him up.  He is the way he is because his wives have let him get away with being emotionally unavailable for the past 25 years.  He is not going to change a thing, except to practice his serious caveman face in the mirror more often for when he gets asked the hard questions.

And Meri...golly gee, maybe we should THANK the catfish for bringing us closer?  Thank the person who you thought was bugging your house, following your kid, saying awful things about your "husband," knocking your religion, threatening you, following you, telling you what shirt your wore to the grocery store that morning, etc?  What that tells me is that if Meri finds another honey on social media, and this time he turns out to be real, she's gone.  I think that a part of her is still in love with the idea of Sam, even though she knows he's not real.  She's going to remember those euphoric feelings forever and will search for the next person who can give her that fix, because she knows it won't ever be Kody.

Edited January 4, 2017 by laurakaye

[VedaPierce]

10 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Your whole post was great, but this stood out to me: if they had been forced to dill one-on-one, in a monogamous marriage - things would be completely different for them.  Given what we know of Meri, I think she assumed that as Legal Wife #1, she would somehow be able to straddle the line between plural and monogamy...she'd give her okey-dokey on the extra wives while still enjoying the benefits of being The Legal One, the most important one, the one who gets to call the shots, the one who was there first and called dibs on Kody, etc.  She keeps wanting to dill with Kody and their issues as a monogamous wife would.  But she's not in that type of marriage, so it doesn't work that way.  Plus, she married a narcissistic man-child, so that doesn't help.

 

+++++++++1.  And she thinks that she is entitled to this, and she doesn't understand why she can't have it this way.  She really does need intensive therapy, and I don't mean the type that Nancy provides - the "ignore the big elephant in the room with the stupid haircut."  REAL therapy.

 

THIS so much, I can't even.  First of all, Kody - shut up on Twitter for saying the catfish "woke you up."  Nothing is going to wake him up.  He is the way he is because his wives have let him get away with being emotionally unavailable for the past 25 years.  He is not going to change a thing, except to practice his serious caveman face in the mirror more often for when he gets asked the hard questions.

And Meri...golly gee, maybe we should THANK the catfish for bringing us closer?  Thank the person who you thought was bugging your house, following your kid, saying awful things about your "husband," knocking your religion, threatening you, following you, telling you what shirt your wore to the grocery store that morning, etc?  What that tells me is that if Meri finds another honey on social media, and this time he turns out to be real, she's gone.  I think that a part of her is still in love with the idea of Sam, even though she knows he's not real.  She's going to remember those euphoric feelings forever and will search for the next person who can give her that fix, because she knows it won't ever be Kody.

The sad thing is she can have that. She can have a good guy, but she has to go about it the right way. First step is letting go of the bad stuff (Kody and his twisted life). That's hard. Change always involves a little fear, effort, work, perseverance. But she won't. She looks for easy ways. School was work - she walked away, website business was work - she walked away. Getting out of a dysfunctional relationship the right way is work. She would actually have to walk away from the wetbar and get a job and pay for her independence. She doesn't have it in her to struggle. But she's great at sitting on a couch with everyone and looking sad and trying to get people to pity her. There comes a time when u need to stop wallowing and feeling sorry for yourself. I have no respect for her.

Edited January 5, 2017 by VedaPierce

[SuzWhat]

14 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Janelle hates Meri so much that she doesn't even want to menstruate at the same time.

@CofCinci for the win!  

[MrSmith]

OK. I've been pretty quiet on this so far, in large part because so many of you have said exactly what my wife and I think (and said while we were watching the episode). The fact is that if they'd been in a monogamous relationship, they would have dealt  with their problems and resolved the situation either by fixing the problems and improving their relationship or by ending their relationship. They wouldn't have been able to ignore each other, not talk to each other, and not be honest with each other for 12 years. And they wouldn't have been able to arrive at a point where they're basically strangers who share bills. Now, they've got all the hard work of getting to know someone as if it's the first time with the complications of the fact it's not the first time and all the distractions that he (at least) has with having three other wives and 18 children. Clearly, he doesn't know his children all that well, either, since he was unaware that Mariah has not yet applied for admittance to medical school. However, that won't stop the ones that are living with their mothers from being a distraction for him, at least on a superficial level.

I said to my wife that I think they're the perfect polygamous family to show on TV. They spout the lies about the benefits and "selling points" of polygamy and then proceed to demonstrate exactly how much bullshit all of their talk about polygamy's benefits really is exactly that: bullshit. I was never interested in such a romantic relationship "arrangement", but if I had ever been, then this show would have solved that problem for me! I cannot imagine a man or woman anywhere watching this show and thinking "That looks great! I want the kinds of relationships they've got!"

The other advantage of a monogamous relationship is that when you're having problems, it's pretty easy to suss out the source of the problems. I say this because the potential causes are pretty limited and the signal:noise ratio is normal: kids, after-school activities, and such. With a polygamous relationship, the noise portion grows to include the other wives' relationships with the husband, the wives' relationships with each other, the wives' relationships with all of each other's kids, greatly magnified financial stresses, and so on. I don't know how anyone would be able to figure out what's causing a problem in one of those marriages because there are so many possible inputs. It would be almost impossible to isolate each input and examine & understand it in enough detail to accurately assess how much of a contributing factor any given input actually is.

So, it's pretty hard for me to have any sympathy for any of these people (the adults; the children didn't choose this). Personally, I'm hoping that Meri and Kody stay together and continue to make each other unbearably miserable for the next 60 years or whatever. I hope they each (including Janelle, Christine, and Robyn) get to the end of their lives and realize their lives could each have been much, much better if they had just been willing to put in more effort, demand more for themselves, and just generally have higher standards.

(Off topic: I finally decided I was tired of the generic green M that was my profile picture and actually set one. If you're wondering what it's a picture of, it's our Irish Wolfhound being fed watermelon on a fork by my wife.)

[Roslyn]

10 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Joe Darger who married two cousins, then later took another wife who was his wife's twin(!) sister.

No, I remember him.  His dark and dead eyes creep me out!  He was the one on the show that runs his household like a military base and is very much in control.  I remember Meri getting giddy over his well organized control..um...leadership of his family.  Saying something along the lines of "I could be married to him..."

I finally googled...the one I'm thinking of is Nathan Collier.  After the gay marriage passed nationally he came out and said that he wanted a second marriage license for his second wife.  If homosexuals can legally marry he wanted to legally marry two women.

[Sista Snarky]

59 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Your whole post was great, but this stood out to me: if they had been forced to dill one-on-one, in a monogamous marriage - things would be completely different for them.  Given what we know of Meri, I think she assumed that as Legal Wife #1, she would somehow be able to straddle the line between plural and monogamy...she'd give her okey-dokey on the extra wives while still enjoying the benefits of being The Legal One, the most important one, the one who gets to call the shots, the one who was there first and called dibs on Kody, etc.  She keeps wanting to dill with Kody and their issues as a monogamous wife would.  But she's not in that type of marriage, so it doesn't work that way.  Plus, she married a narcissistic man-child, so that doesn't help.

 

+++++++++1.  And she thinks that she is entitled to this, and she doesn't understand why she can't have it this way.  She really does need intensive therapy, and I don't mean the type that Nancy provides - the "ignore the big elephant in the room with the stupid haircut."  REAL therapy.

 

THIS so much, I can't even.  First of all, Kody - shut up on Twitter for saying the catfish "woke you up."  Nothing is going to wake him up.  He is the way he is because his wives have let him get away with being emotionally unavailable for the past 25 years.  He is not going to change a thing, except to practice his serious caveman face in the mirror more often for when he gets asked the hard questions.

And Meri...golly gee, maybe we should THANK the catfish for bringing us closer?  Thank the person who you thought was bugging your house, following your kid, saying awful things about your "husband," knocking your religion, threatening you, following you, telling you what shirt your wore to the grocery store that morning, etc?  What that tells me is that if Meri finds another honey on social media, and this time he turns out to be real, she's gone.  I think that a part of her is still in love with the idea of Sam, even though she knows he's not real.  She's going to remember those euphoric feelings forever and will search for the next person who can give her that fix, because she knows it won't ever be Kody.

"Euphoric feelings" & "fix" 

Exactly!

Meri  is still  very stuck in the highs & lows of a "relationship" with someone that doesn't exist. 

If an addict saw a  legit therapist on a drive by session wanting & needing  to "understand" why the bad  guy on the corner sells  drugs to the "poor" "vulnerable"  addict...the legit therapist would never entertain the topic. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[MrSmith]

6 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

No, I remember him.  His dark and dead eyes creep me out!  He was the one on the show that runs his household like a military base and is very much in control.  I remember Meri getting giddy over his well organized control..um...leadership of his family.  Saying something along the lines of "I could be married to him..."

I finally googled...the one I'm thinking of is Nathan Collier.  After the gay marriage passed nationally he came out and said that he wanted a second marriage license for his second wife.  If homosexuals can legally marry he wanted to legally marry two women.

I remember seeing that guy on TV before. The thing that really stuck out to me about those people is the wives. They're needy with very low self-esteem. That's the only reason he's able to get two wives.

[TurtlePower]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

THIS so much, I can't even.  First of all, Kody - shut up on Twitter for saying the catfish "woke you up."  Nothing is going to wake him up.  He is the way he is because his wives have let him get away with being emotionally unavailable for the past 25 years.  He is not going to change a thing, except to practice his serious caveman face in the mirror more often for when he gets asked the hard questions.

And Meri...golly gee, maybe we should THANK the catfish for bringing us closer?  Thank the person who you thought was bugging your house, following your kid, saying awful things about your "husband," knocking your religion, threatening you, following you, telling you what shirt your wore to the grocery store that morning, etc?  What that tells me is that if Meri finds another honey on social media, and this time he turns out to be real, she's gone.  I think that a part of her is still in love with the idea of Sam, even though she knows he's not real.  She's going to remember those euphoric feelings forever and will search for the next person who can give her that fix, because she knows it won't ever be Kody.

This. I know lots of people here dislike Meri but every woman needs to feel wanted and have that kind of attention paid to them. Even as marriages grow old, there still needs to be affection (of course I'm sure this varies, some couples might be fine just being housemates). If Kody is unwilling and she's unhappy with the whole thing, why remain there, alone in her house selling leggings? 

I'm not suggesting she should go out and seek another relationship. I'm saying she might need to go out and figure out who she is and what she really wants to do with the rest of her life and then go from there. It's never too late to start anew, I know people who went to medical school in their 40s after leaving a different career or got divorced. She, too, could have a different future than one as an empty nester with fertility issues and a husband who is rejecting her emotionally. I know she "chose" that lifestyle but it's not wrong to change one's mind.

[TurtlePower]

1 hour ago, VedaPierce said:

The sad thing is she can have that. She can have a good guy, but she has to go about it the right way. First step is letting go of the bad stuff (Kody and his twisted life). That's hard. Change always involves a little fear, effort, work, perseverance. But she won't. She looks for easy ways. School was work - she walked away, website business was work - she walked away. Getting out of a dysfunctional relationship the right way is work. She would actually have to walk away from the wetbar and get a job and pay for her independence. She doesn't have it in her to struggle. But she's great at sitting on a couch with everyone and looking sad and trying to get people to pity her. There comes a time when u need to stop wallowing and feeling sorry for yourself. I have no respect for. 

I do see her self-pity a little bit and get what you're saying. It would be a difficult and scary step to walk away and re-establish herself (change is scarier than misery sometimes). She's just kind of dabbling in it right now, sending messages that she's unhappy. I'd love to see her actually peace out.

[laurakaye]

4 minutes ago, Runnergirl said:

I do see her self-pity a little bit and get what you're saying. It would be a difficult and scary step to walk away and re-establish herself (change is scarier than misery sometimes). She's just kind of dabbling in it right now, sending messages that she's unhappy. I'd love to see her actually peace out.

I wonder if she really has it in her.  She was raised in a plural family and married into it, and it's all she knows.  But then there's Christine's mom in the mix...someone who left polygamy and from what we've seen of her, seems incredibly happy and content.  When she smiles, she almost glows.  I'd have to think that if Meri needed someone to talk to about her misgivings, Christine's mom wouldn't turn around and rat her out to Kody like the other wives would surely do.

It's frustrating for us monogamists to look at Meri and wonder why she insists on being unhappy.  She's still very young, attractive, smart.  I suppose it's easy for us to scream at her to dump her husband-in-spirit-only, but at her core, can she even imagine a life without him?

[CofCinci]

26 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

It's frustrating for us monogamists to look at Meri and wonder why she insists on being unhappy.  She's still very young, attractive, smart.  I suppose it's easy for us to scream at her to dump her husband-in-spirit-only, but at her core, can she even imagine a life without him?

Not just a life without him -- but an afterlife without all your loved ones!  I have a great deal of empathy for Meri and Christine because they want to be on Kody's planet for eternity. They believe fully in their religion. They need Kody to love them.  Not because they love Kody and want to be with him forever but for everyone else they love.  I can only imagine what it feels like to believe this and worry that you'll not be with your loved ones based on whether or not this doofus likes you. "Keep sweet". 

[Granny58]

2 hours ago, Roslyn said:

If homosexuals can legally marry he wanted to legally marry two women

and I think he makes a good point.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, Granny58 said:

4 hours ago, Roslyn said:

If homosexuals can legally marry he wanted to legally marry two women

and I think he makes a good point.

Except that when gays marry, it is still a one-to-one relationship, not one-to-many.  Bigamy is a crime in all states no matter what the gender.

[MrSmith]

1 hour ago, Granny58 said:

and I think he makes a good point.

Not really. Logically, marriage is a 1:1 relationship which has now been rendered gender neutral. Bigamy is a 1:* or potentially *:* relationship, which puts it in a different logical category. There is no additional harm that can be visited upon a person by rendering marriage gender neutral. However, with bigamy, there is a great deal of harm that can be visited upon a person if they happen to marry someone who is also married to other people. I could see allowing it if all persons already married to Person A are also getting legally married to Person B. That way, Person B would be certain to be aware of the type of relationship into which they are entering. And since marriage is currently gender neutral, there is no reason that all the spouses of Person A are not also married to Person B. Basically, if you enforce polygamy as a *:* relationship where all persons in the marriage are married to all other persons in the marriage, then I could see agreeing to it. Of course, that makes divorces considerably more messy than they already are.

[MegD]

6 hours ago, ladle said:

16 hours ago, Marigold said:

Maybe the wives suspected but I think Kody was surprised.  The camera stayed on him for affect.  He is so self involved, he would never suspect a thing.  

I thought it was funny when he guessed med school acceptance, and Mariah was like, "Uh, I haven't applied."  Way to stay engaged in your kids' lives! 

Hasn't Kody said that he doesn't really get involved in his daughters' lives? He only cares about the boys and proving how manly his is.

[VedaPierce]

On January 3, 2017 at 1:22 AM, smores said:

My takeaway from the episode is this: Mykelti apparently wants to use dryer lint as flowers in her bouquets.  WTF?  

Lol! Or pantyhose 

[VedaPierce]

On January 3, 2017 at 6:10 AM, Rainflower said:

I need to go back and read all the wonderful posts. Been busy with preparing for the arrival of my second child due next month (and the arrival of my mother-in-law at the end of this month. *cringe* I love her but she has serious OCD issues. Had to make sure the apartment was cleaned top to bottom but don't know why I did it. Last birth she re-cleaned the entire place by herself.).

Just wanted to post that I am shocked that Kody allowed Mariah to reveal that she is gay on TV.  I know I shouldn't be shocked because he allowed the cameras to film his children being born, him being an ass, etc. but seems like a child being gay would be one of those things he wouldn't want made public through his TV show. I wonder how much money TLC had to offer him to allow Mariah to reveal her orientation (like double the amount of his daughter's recreated filmed wedding?).

Anyhoo, I'll go back and have fun reading the forum and catching up with all the snarks and facts while dreading the "I'm here" phone call from my MIL.

For sure he got a bonus for allowing it. 

and for what it's worth? I would be devasted if my kid came out as a polygamist! ;)

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

Not really. Logically, marriage is a 1:1 relationship which has now been rendered gender neutral. Bigamy is a 1:* or potentially *:* relationship, which puts it in a different logical category. There is no additional harm that can be visited upon a person by rendering marriage gender neutral. However, with bigamy, there is a great deal of harm that can be visited upon a person if they happen to marry someone who is also married to other people. I could see allowing it if all persons already married to Person A are also getting legally married to Person B. That way, Person B would be certain to be aware of the type of relationship into which they are entering. And since marriage is currently gender neutral, there is no reason that all the spouses of Person A are not also married to Person B. Basically, if you enforce polygamy as a *:* relationship where all persons in the marriage are married to all other persons in the marriage, then I could see agreeing to it. Of course, that makes divorces considerably more messy than they already are.

This. The law cares more about the division of property, inheritance, child support, etc. than morality. Plural spouses creates a whole lot more $$$ issues than one person + one person, regardless of gender/sex/identity.

[Absolom]

Ratings are in:  1.362 M viewers and a .42 rating.

[VedaPierce]

On January 3, 2017 at 8:34 AM, Christina said:

...

Meri is working overtime to not say what really happened, even though the truth does not really make her look bad. She figures Lindsay is involved somehow in the car ride, but involved in what? She still thought Sam was real. She thought there was a man involved. She was putting up with Lindsay because Sam wanted her to hang out with her. She didn't like her immediately, but brushed it off because she had a check for $10k. It was probably the only large purchase they were able to make in that MLM. Linsday showed up again and purchased more, and they made a trip to Disneyland together. 

Thank u for taking the time to write this all up and shed some light! I'm wondering if Meri ever returned that check for 10k to the rightful owner, Cheryl is it? The check Lindsey gave Meri for the goo was the one she grifted from Cheryl? I would think cheryl could make claims to it which is possibly why Kody was opposed to Meri going out to meet with her...

[ghoulina]

19 hours ago, Adiba said:

Supposedly, the reason that Kody et al are living plural marriage is for religious reasons, too--and that was one of the reasons why Mariah was ostensibly so upset about the betrayal aspect of the catfishing? After all, secularly and legally Meri is divorced from Kody. For all intents and purposes she is emotionally and physically separated from him as well. So really the only betrayal is spiritually, isn't it? And if Mariah no longer believes in the tenets of the AUB, Meri's trangressions aren't that egregious.

Even if Mariah doesn't believe in polygamy anymore, she could still believe that Meri needs to honor the commitment SHE made to Kody. These are Mariah's parents after all. Legality aside, Meri didn't actually leave Kody before sending banana pics to another "man". It doesn't matter, really, what Mariah believes in, but what her parents do. 

[Jellybeans]

I think if Kody would cut Meri lose he would be doing her a favor but he is too egotistical to do so.  And Meri seems incapable of moving on.

I am ready for Mykelti's wedding because it seems the catfish has been mummified.

[Sista Snarky]

29 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

Thank u for taking the time to write this all up and shed some light! I'm wondering if Meri ever returned that check for 10k to the rightful owner, Cheryl is it? The check Lindsey gave Meri for the goo was the one she grifted from Cheryl? I would think cheryl could make claims to it which is possibly why Kody was opposed to Meri going out to meet with her...

Stacey from Oklahoma was the one that was on the hook for the 10K of green goo. 

That girl should have gotten her money  back instead of a "girl power" "healing" trip  to Atlanta to compare Catfish notes jokes etc.

Stacey met Meri during the sales pitch  so I'm sure Meri either has contact info for Stacey or could easily find it. 

That would really be a step in the right direction. I doubt Meri will ever address that...because it doesn't benefit Meri.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[Granny58]

3 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Except that when gays marry, it is still a one-to-one relationship, not one-to-many.  Bigamy is a crime in all states no matter what the gender.

there's 2 ways to look at it and I don't think it will be tolerated on this board.  

Edited January 4, 2017 by Granny58

[Kohola3]

Quote

Thank u for taking the time to write this all up and shed some light! I'm wondering if Meri ever returned that check for 10k to the rightful owner, Cheryl is it?

HAHAHAHAHA...oh, wait.  You were serious?  The grifters doing something ethical?

[Adiba]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Even if Mariah doesn't believe in polygamy anymore, she could still believe that Meri needs to honor the commitment SHE made to Kody. These are Mariah's parents after all. Legality aside, Meri didn't actually leave Kody before sending banana pics to another "man". It doesn't matter, really, what Mariah believes in, but what her parents do. 

I am not so much as defending Meri's behavior as really trying to understand Mariah's thought process about her mother and father's relationship or lack thereof. I guess it is disturbing to realize that your parents do not have the relationship that you thought they had and that they only paid lip service to. But even before the catfish situation, even a casual observer could see how unhappy Meri was. Surely her daughter had a clue? And it does matter, imo, what Mariah believes in if she is to judge her mother, because that forms the basis of that judgment, of what she considers right and wrong or moral/immoral.

My opinion is coming from someone who watched my parents fight for yearsand wished sometimes that they would divorce ( they didn't) and saw my mother very unhappy. I guess that colors my opinion here. 

Not to excuse Meri in having an emotional affair--I believe you should fully exit one relationship before entering another.