S01.E09: The Trip

[dannymoon]

It's official. Anything with young William makes me cry. To think, if he has just reacted to Rebecca's comment about why she was there with something more subtle like a smile and "That would be nice," MAYBE it would have happened. But he was immediately out of his chair and so nervous/excited about it (understandably), which freaked out Rebecca (understandably)...and that was it. Heartbreaking. What she did seems so wrong, but I'm not sure how I'd act in her shoes. I just don't know.

I'm not much of a crier. Although sure, I've cried watching television shows. But every week?! Goodness. This show has got me.

Edited November 30, 2016 by dannymoon

[SueB]

I get her panic when Randall was young.  It's very complicated.  OTOH, I wonder why she didn't tell him after 18 or 21.  Perhaps it has something to do with Jack's death?  IDK. 

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, ProudMary said:

I loved seeing the tree where the big three had carved their names--

I had to laugh at that scene, thinking '30 years and the tree hasn't grown enough to obliterate the carvings?"  But it was cute.

Milana Vayntrub must have got teased a LOT during rehearsals about that cell signal scene.  Speaking of rehearsals, how great and well trained were the actors in the game scene when Randall is talking nonstop over their own conversations?  That takes some work.

Ghost Jack alluded to something really serious when he said that Rebecca had her own troubles to work through but she kept the family together.  I don't think it was just the prospect of losing Randall.  And that is a very real possibility.  My brother and his wife had to spend countless hours in court and other places, defending their adoption of a son from an on-again, off-again drug addict.  They eventually won, but it was trying.

I feel for Kate, who now realizes, courtesy of Olivia, that she is placing her hopes for a new life on an external savior (the surgery).  It may be the catalyst, but she has to change her own life.

Randall has built this box around his world and thinks everything outside that box is the enemy.  My take, anyway.  Now this happens.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Dowel Jones

[Bama]

You know we've talked about how Rebecca keeping this secret effects Randall but it had an impact on how she interacted with her whole family.

She kept the secret from Jack; never a good thing to have this big secret sitting there hidden from your partner.

And I think a lot of the favoritism she showed/shows Randall comes from not just him being adopted but from her guilt over lying to him about his bio parents.  We've seen how that favoritism hurt Kevin and continues to hurt Kevin.  I have no doubt that it made an impact on Kate too.

Keeping a secret and lying to your family can manifest itself in things that have nothing to do with the secret or the lies.

But I totally relate to the fear that motivated Rebecca to keep that secret.  I think she went to William intending to open the door to introducing Randall to William but William's eagerness to immediately plan to teach Randall music and have Randall sleep over totally freaked her out.  I think had William been more reserved and let Rebecca take the lead on how Randall and William would interact then she may not have shut him out.

It's the mark of good writing that I can see that everyone in this situation was right and wrong and that all the characters reactions were real and believable.

[memememe76]

Further to Young William's reaction, it seems that he came to similar conclusions. It could certainly be due to age and his illness, but he is so more reserved now. If he behaved similarly way back when...

Rebecca and Jack mentioned birth PARENTS could take Randall from them. Do they not know about the mother having died?

[breezy424]

7 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

I had to laugh at that scene, thinking '30 years and the tree hasn't grown enough to obliterate the carvings?"  But it was cute.

Jamie Gertz must have got teased a LOT during rehearsals about that cell signal scene.  Speaking of rehearsals, how great and well trained were the actors in the game scene when Randall is talking nonstop over their own conversations?  That takes some work.

Ghost Jack alluded to something really serious when he said that Rebecca had her own troubles to work through but she kept the family together.  I don't think it was just the prospect of losing Randall.  And that is a very real possibility.  My brother and his wife had to spend countless hours in court and other places, defending their adoption of a son from an on-again, off-again drug addict.  They eventually won, but it was trying.

I feel for Kate, who now realizes, courtesy of Olivia, that she is placing her hopes for a new life on an external savior (the surgery).  It may be the catalyst, but she has to change her own life.

Randall has built this box around his world and thinks everything outside that box is the enemy.  My take, anyway.  Now this happens.

Carving into a tree lasts much longer than you would think. 

[Artsda]

Loved seeing the big 3 interact together and focus be them at the cabin. 

[Cardie]

Please tell me that neither Toby nor Olivia will ever appear on my screen again. I know it's too much to hope for but it was my first thought when Olivia drove off in the car that is not hers and Toby hung up.

It's really not fair of the show to make Jack the model parent and Rebecca the insecure, selfish b**ch. I do understand why she never told Randall when he was 18, because once you carry a lie like that it's very hard to admit to it later. William is once more a saint, not telling Randall when the secret gets out that he asked to see young Randall and Rebecca cut off contact. I do love Jack and William but all the mom-blame gets tiresome, even if they try to make some excuses for Rebecca's actions.

[IrishPirate]

44 minutes ago, cali1981 said:

A very good episode.  Yay for Milana Vayntrub,  the AT&T girl as Sloan.  You knew that she and Kevin were going there.  Kudos to Toby for having the guts to cut the cord with Kate.  Had to be done.  The actor who played the younger William was a natural fit.   Maybe it was Comcast tonight but the show looked softly focused and had a sedate color palette. It looked that on my plasma and LCD TVs.  

Thank you! I was going to watch the credits to see who the familiar face was, then forgot. Nice to see Milana out of the AT&T store.

[biakbiak]

16 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Please tell me that neither Toby nor Olivia will ever appear on my screen again. I know it's too much to hope for but it was my first thought when Olivia drove off in the car that is not hers and Toby hung up.

It's really not fair of the show to make Jack the model parent and Rebecca the insecure, selfish b**ch. I do understand why she never told Randall when he was 18, because once you carry a lie like that it's very hard to admit to it later. William is once more a saint, not telling Randall when the secret gets out that he asked to see young Randall and Rebecca cut off contact. I do love Jack and William but all the mom-blame gets tiresome, even if they try to make some excuses for Rebecca's actions.

Toby was left open ended and Olivia still costars in the play that based on previews Kevin might start dating the writer/producer/director (no idea if she was on before but she described it as her play and she slept with Kevin.)

[cali1981]

16 minutes ago, IrishPirate said:

Thank you! I was going to watch the credits to see who the familiar face was, then forgot. Nice to see Milana out of the AT&T store.

It's funny  how in the commercials and tonight's show,  her looks are played down a bit.   If you look at her pictures on IMDB,  all you can say is Wow! She is one great looking woman.  

[bros402]

That was a great episode.

[DebbieM4]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I was disappointed that he didn't, and he took the list with him instead of leaving it with her.  I can't imagine how crushed he must be at thinking of all the lost opportunity to know his father and, and how he was cheated out of knowing that he was wanted and didn't have to be perfect in order to keep his place in the family.  And he never would have known his father had he not chosen to hire a PI when he did - it could have been too late had he waited a year and William had already died. 

Rebecca couldn't bond with Kyle/Randall, Rebecca seeks out his father, Rebecca insists on secrecy, Rebecca lies to Randall and Jack because she afraid of losing another child, Rebecca goes back to William and tells him Randall wants to know his father and then runs away and sends William a buh-bye letter becasue she can't handle Randall knowing his father, Rebecca never, ever tells Randall the truth and had no plans to even now...it's all about what Rebecca wanted and needed, and not so much about anyone else.  Randall may only need a month away from her to start forgiving, but I'm going to need longer than that.

I agree.  I have some sympathy for her fear of losing her young son.  But toying with William's emotions like that was pretty cruel.  She never should have gone back and brought up the possibility of having him see Randall unless she had thought it through.  She got his hopes up, decided she couldn't handle it, and ran away.  She didn't even give him the courtesy of telling him she had second thoughts.  Instead, she broke his heart and made him feel foolish.  He was a nice man who clearly loved his son, wanted the best for him, and had put his own life back together.  Why punish him for that?   It would have been far better for her to just keep her distance rather than continue to pop into this man's life and raise his hopes.  It was immature and it was selfish and it was cruel.

And absolutely she should have told Randall about William when he got older.  I find it pretty unforgivable that he got to the age he is without knowing.  I think not confiding in Jack was kind of crappy too.  So yes, I understand to some degree how she felt, but she always seems to think of herself more than anyone else.  I don't want to see a huge family rift, but I also don't want to see Randall forgive and forget too quickly.

[chocolatine]

I hate hate hate tripping/interacting with ghosts scenes, and unfortunately this episode was no different. BUT young William made up for all of that. I still haven't cried, but the scene of him reading Rebecca's letter and putting it and the picture of Randall into the Poems For My Son manuscript drove a dagger through my heart.

Olivia really believes that it's her world and everyone else just lives in it, doesn't she? I can't imagine that she's a talented enough actress to get away with that kind of behavior (yes, I know she's supposed to have won a Tony, but I'm still not buying it). It's one thing to be a jerk in your personal life, quite another to be a jerk to the people you work with, especially in such a tight-knit circle as Broadway.

I loved Kevin and Kate standing outside the car staring Rebecca down while Randall delivered his speech to her. While they can't completely relate to Randall's pain about the stolen opportunity to have William in his life much sooner, they're still behind him 100%. That's a true sibling bond.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[candall]

Wow, I thought Rebecca was AWFUL for keeping her "lonely secret."  I could give her a break if Randall were a happy, well-adjusted little boy, but that kid's whole life revolved around his obvious yearning for information.  He was running around desperately soliciting strangers, trying to find a connection to his origins.  Here's my list of possibilities--all the Black people I've ever met.  Hey, I learned this cool thing in third grade science class about a genetic trait that could help me find a clue!

 

When Rebecca showed up at William's door, I thought the show would have him be all cracked out to reinforce Rebecca's decision to keep them apart.  But no, it was the opposite!  Five years of sobriety, a support network, a tidy apartment and an open honest demeanor, eager to introduce Randall to music . . . zip, she's out the door when his back is turned.  Brutal.

Yes, her secret was lonely--because she made that decision unilaterally, knowing Jack's input would conflict with her own determination.

 

Essentially, she put her own "needs" first, at the expense of depriving her son and, in a certain sense, betraying her husband.  Favoring Randall was probably her way to compensate for feeling guilty, but that also messed up Kevin.

 

I'll be needing longer than Thanksgiving-to-Christmas to get past all that, and I'm just a viewer!

*****

ETA:  I tried, but I was too indignant over Rebecca to focus on the comments about the other characters--I posted before I knew Izabella and Bama and others had said virtually the same thing.  Sorry!!

(What a good show, to make me so emotional!)

Edited November 30, 2016 by candall

[PRgal]

9 hours ago, Tiger said:

 

Yvette was much better than her previous appearances.  I wonder if Bathe is pregnant in real life given that coat they had Yvette in.

I was wondering the same thing.  Her face looked a bit fuller to me for some reason.

Also, there was no paper trail for Randall's adoption?  That's not how adoption works.  You don't just take a baby home from the hospital - even if he was dropped off by the fire department. 

[Crs97]

UO here, but I didn't love the Dojo scene.  Maybe because I just kept thinking what if Jack hadn't been physically strong enough to do the pushups.  It was moving for what it was, but I just felt like it was written to be a moving tear-jerker scene rather than organic to the story.

[candall]

12 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Also, there was no paper trail for Randall's adoption?  That's not how adoption works.  You don't just take a baby home from the hospital - even if he was dropped off by the fire department. 

It was technically in the days before this show's setting, but "grey market" adoptions used to happen pretty frequently.

Back when unmarried pregnancy would permanently ruin the reputation/life of both mother and offspring, a family doctor would sometimes deliver the baby and privately phone a couple he knew well, who desperately wanted a baby and couldn't have one themselves.  (I talked to someone once who was involved with this on several occasions and it was mind-blower--the secrets kept for so long by so many people.)

Probably not happening much in the 80's but Dr. Major Dad was old enough to be familiar with the process, so who knows?  I didn't find it impossible.

[luna1122]

This show has never made me cry yet--and I'm not dead inside, I actually cry pretty easily, but UO:  this show, while I really like it and never miss it, often feels way too manipulative and DESIGNED specifically to make me cry, so I don't--but I almost did last nite, when William got Rebecca's letter. That was sort of devastating.

I also thought Mandy Moore nailed the last scene when she broke into sobs with Randall at the door. I might not agree with how Rebecca handled things, but I get it. She might be wrong, but her actions are understandable on many human, imperfect levels.

I also hope we've seen the last of Olivia, but I really doubt it. I think we're supposed to believe Kevin's whole impassioned monologue about her actually feeling something when she kissed him, so he's still going to make her FEEL LOVE!!! Whatever. I vastly prefer the ATT girl. Hilarious and inevitable that she and Kevin wound up in bed.

I was proud of Toby for saying 'nope' when Kate still wanted to use him as her soft place to fall, and I don't even like Toby. She was being pretty selfish and thoughtless to think he should still be around to pick up her pieces or lend a shoulder to cry on literally days after dumping him pretty unceremoniously.

I couldn't believe they just let Randall be alone outside around ladders, power tools and the great outdoors while he was tripping balls. Just have to assume they were watching him thru the windows most of the time.

[Chaos Theory]

What is interesting about the show is that no one has done anything that is truly illogical.  You may not like or agree with a character's actions but you understand them.  Rebecca never telling Randall about his father is understandable but so is Randall being unable and unwilling to forgive her for it.    Kate wanting surgery is understandable but her family's reactions are also understandable as well.  Very few characters on the show are unlikeable for unlikeable sake.  Even Olivia acting the way she acted was understandable. Mean and cruel but understandable.

Characters often do the wrong thing and are allowed to be wrong which is an interesting thing about the show.  They are allowed to be wrong and not written as evil and dispicable people. Rebecca was wrong not to tell Randall the truth but I don't think I have ever felt I understood her more.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, betweenthebanter said:

I do think that Rebecca should have told Jack about William and told Randell, once he turned 18, but I still felt a lot of sympathy for her.

I agree.  I love what Jack told adult Randall, think about how that secret might have affected your mother.  I'm pissed at Randall because he's all "MEMEME."  I used to take care of abandoned infants and I often wonder how many of them went to loving families.  I think about the many news stories about children killed by their mother's boyfriend/father/mother/step-father/whatever. 

I think both Randall and Rebecca are right and wrong.  Rebecca was afraid of losing Randall, and Randall really should have been told about his bio-dad when he came of age.  But then I ask myself, what if William wasn't such a nice man?  What if he was a selfish, narcissistic addict?  I wonder if William hadn't been a good person, would Randall be so upset. 

I also liked Kevin realizing that Olivia HAS no feelings and Toby putting up a boundary where Kate was concerned.  Kate herself needs to learn boundaries as well.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Neurochick

[Haleth]

This episode was about perfect.  (Only complaint is not enough Beth, because she rocks.)  Loved the Big 3 together.  This nails it, Kate must move to NYC to be with her family.  She is so much better as part of the ensemble rather than off by herself on her own show.  Both Kevin and Randall show themselves to be kind and compassionate, sweet men as Rebecca would say.  I hope Olivia, that cold, emotionless bitch who only sees human interactions as research, is gone for good, but Lily Sloane can stay.  (Milana is a cutie pie.)

Randall.  Oh, Randall.  It's because he's a kind, compassionate man he knows he'll work through his anger and eventually reconcile with his mom.  Of course their relationship will never be the same but he won't cut her out of his and his children's lives.  I still can't help feeling sympathy for Rebecca.  She knows she made a terrible mistake, she gets that, there is nothing she can do about it now.  When she broke down, releasing all the guilt, I cried with her.  Betrayal, even for the noblest of reasons, is not easily put aside.  Everyone loses.  

Man, the writing on this show is something else.  You can't accuse anyone of not having natural, human feelings.  Maybe Jack is a little too perfect, for now, but I have the feeling a shoe is about to drop.

6 hours ago, SueB said:

I get her panic when Randall was young.  It's very complicated.  OTOH, I wonder why she didn't tell him after 18 or 21.  Perhaps it has something to do with Jack's death?  IDK.

You could be on to something.  There could be a very good (in her mind) explanation why she never told him, more than fear of losing him to his birth parents.

And the William/Rebeccah and dojo scenes were beautiful.  Heart wrenching and beautiful.

[JudyObscure]

I know a woman who got pregnant in1968 while she was in college.  Everyone,  doctors, family, friends, magazines, and her sociology classes told her to give the baby up for adoption, that any other decision would be selfish and the child would have a poor, stigmatized life.  Now, this show, seems to be saying just the opposite.  Randall was never happy because his real life parents had given him up.  Potential adoptive parents are hearing that you will always be in danger of losing the child you've given your heart to, that he will always long for his biological parents.  Jack's is the saddest story of all, to me.  He has been the best dad in the world, but, according to the show,  it wasn't enough, he wasn't able to teach Randall the things he needed to know because his skin wasn't the right color.  It's just depressing to me.

[PRgal]

4 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I know a woman who got pregnant in1968 while she was in college.  Everyone,  doctors, family, friends, magazines, and her sociology classes told her to give the baby up for adoption, that any other decision would be selfish and the child would have a poor, stigmatized life.  Now, this show, seems to be saying just the opposite.  Randall was never happy because his real life parents had given him up.  Potential adoptive parents are hearing that you will always be in danger of losing the child you've given your heart to, that he will always long for his biological parents.  Jack's is the saddest story of all, to me.  He has been the best dad in the world, but, according to the show,  it wasn't enough, he wasn't able to teach Randall the things he needed to know because his skin wasn't the right color.  It's just depressing to me.

I think Jack and Rebecca - or at least Rebecca, anyway - have very old fashioned views on being adoptive parents.  I know a couple of people my age (37) who were adopted, but have known since they were at least in elementary school.  I'm unsure if they met their birth parents, but their upbringing was very positive.  Unlike Randall, however, neither were transracially adopted.  It's definitely EXTREMELY important for a transculturally/transracially adopted child to have similar-culture influences in his or her life, but it isn't the number one priority.  A loving home is the MOST important thing.  Randall could have been adopted by a Huxtable-like family, but if they're only Huxtable-like on the outside, but dysfunctional behind  closed doors, then he's better off where he was growing up.                                                                                                      

[kili]

I think that Rebecca went to see William to re-affirm her decision to keep Randall away from him. It was probably even unconscious. She probably told herself "Well, I'll try his old place and if he is not there, what can I do? How am I supposed to find him with just the nickname the bus driver gave him?". She was surprised to find him there. "Oh, well, he's still an addict. That's not acceptable." But no, he's been sober for five years and has a support system. "Maybe he won't want to see his son." Nope, he is super excited. She's out the door.

She said it herself. She was actually more worried that his bio parents would be great. She was afraid of losing her son. She was determined that was not going to happen and she had unrealistic fears that it would. Rationally, she shouldn't have been afraid of losing her son legally (they had had him for 9 years at that point and William had left him at a fire station), but she was afraid she would lose Randall emotionally. That's why she never told him.

Everytime that sweet child reached out to find his real parents, Rebecca felt it like a blow. Like she might lose her child and that she wasn't enough. Meanwhile, poor Randall is terrified of doing anything wrong lest he not be filling his role as the replacement child. Somehow, he always felt that he was not wanted when he was deeply wanted by all three of his parents. It's hard not to feel sympathy for all of them.

Poor broken young William. It seems that he never forgave himself for giving up his child and moved on. He just went through the motions. That scene with the letter and the book of poems he wrote for his son? 

This show rarely highlights things for no reason. They repeatedly showed the three locks on the cabin. And then Rebecca kind of losing it locking them all. I wonder if Rebecca ended up having a mental break at some point. That those locks on the door were to protect Randall from William. To protect her world. I wonder if she is on medication now and that is part of the reason she's a little flatter in the current scenes.

Interesting how Sloane let Olivia use her car because she was afraid of upsetting the star of her show. She has no such worry about upsetting the other star of the show. Olivia must really be a piece of work. Could Asher be any more pretentious. I loved Kevin calling him on those "Aw"'s. Where did Olivia pick up that loser?

[LydiaMoon1]

8 hours ago, photo fox said:

I officially no longer care if Olivia gets pie.

I never cared.  That pie story of hers sounded rehearsed anyways.  Then, when she practically cheered about the family drama at the dinner table, I wanted to snatch her sideways and throw her out onto the sidewalk.  Pfffft.  I'm perfectly okay with never seeing her again.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Empress1 said:

No "dad bod" on Milo, that's for sure. (And I maintain that his body is an anachronism. Not that I mind.)

Well, my ex had that body (complete with hairlessness, which was natural for him) in the 70's and 80's, despite the fact that he didn't work out. Unusual, probably. But true.

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Seeing William having a glimmer of hope of seeing his son was heartbreaking.  I get that Rebecca did not wanat Randall to have a relationship with his biological father as a child....but she should have told him when he became an adult.  She also should have told Jack.

This. Her reasons are understandable, but there is no excuse for her not to tell Jack. It would have been hard, but she should have told Randall when he was an adult. Though, come to think of it, telling Randall would give him another father, whereas Kate and Kevin would still be fatherless (in a biological sense anyway). I could see that being a rationalization.

I once had someone pull that Olivia shit on me (analyzing), only in her case, she was dead wrong. I, being a polite person, just said fuck off in my mind and left it at that. I hate that Olivia's statement had any validity.

[Court]

I don't think the show is saying adoption is bad or wrong. I think it's saying it's a complicated layered issue. Every adopted child is different as are the adoptive parents. 

I think any parent can relate to the fear of losing their child.

My parents divorced when I was young. But I always wanted to know why. I needed to understand. I wanted to know how they met, about their wedding. It didn't help that I was blown off, dismissed until I was 20 before I got some answers. This likely doesn't make sense to many but it's the best I can explain. My sister? She never cared about this. 

[GodsBeloved]

Just finished watching and the tears are flowing ... that's all I got for now.

[SimoneS]

What got me about the dojo scene was that when Jack got tired of lifting Randall and was told to stop, he took a deep breath and said no, I can do it and then continued to lift his son. My heart felt the love that he had for his son. I think that moment contributed to Rebecca's decision not to let William into Randall's life. It was a painful decision that must have ate at her all their lives. Now the truth is out and she must be terrified of losing her son all over again.

Edited December 1, 2016 by SimoneS

[Dejana]

41 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I know a woman who got pregnant in1968 while she was in college.  Everyone,  doctors, family, friends, magazines, and her sociology classes told her to give the baby up for adoption, that any other decision would be selfish and the child would have a poor, stigmatized life.  Now, this show, seems to be saying just the opposite.  Randall was never happy because his real life parents had given him up.  Potential adoptive parents are hearing that you will always be in danger of losing the child you've given your heart to, that he will always long for his biological parents.  Jack's is the saddest story of all, to me.  He has been the best dad in the world, but, according to the show,  it wasn't enough, he wasn't able to teach Randall the things he needed to know because his skin wasn't the right color.  It's just depressing to me.

People who are adopted within the same race may also grapple with looking/feeling different than other family members, wondering if strangers they encounter could be their birth parents and grandmas who'd rather not acknowledge them. Just because someone who's adopted wants to know about their biological parents, doesn't mean that person regrets being adopted. Young Randall seems to love his family very much (aside from his thorny relationship with Kevin). And not all people who are adopted long for a connection to their biological families. Still, the transracial aspect makes the adoption more obvious to everyone else, and probably leads to the child having to contend with the feelings about being adopted much more often than someone who may "pass" to the outside world.

[Good Queen Jane]

I'm sure Jack and Rebecca went through a court hearing to adopt Randall, but since the parents were unknown, no consent to the adoption by the biological parents was given. That could have been a basis for overturning the adoption, especially in the 80's. (Now there are different laws regarding consent.) But whether William could overturn the adoption or not, all that really matters is the Rebecca thought he might be able to.

Also, I don't think Jack knew the birth mother was dead. Rebecca found out when she first met William and I would assume that Randall found out from the PI, as the birth mother's name would have been the easiest to find.

I do have a question. Did 80's Jack and Rebecca live in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia? I thought it was Pittsburgh, but that's 4 hours away from the eastern border of Pennsylvania and the cabin was obviously close to New Jersey/New York. I can't imagine them driving that far for weekend vacations if they lived in Pittsburgh.  

[GodsBeloved]

11 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Kevin read Olivia for filth!  And I was here for it.  My God, she just gets worse each week.

That was my favorite scene until the initiation scene.  Holy God, Dad Jack doing push ups with Randall on his back while getting a motivational "we are all each other's support" speech was just everything!

Thank you for saying what I'm too emotional to say ... the RJ initiation push up yeah that what I'm calling it ... it was indeed everything! From the instructor motioning for Jack to join the other fathers, to Randall climbing onto Jack's back to Jack giving more than he was asked to give ... excuse me while I go and cry some more.

[Crs97]

41 minutes ago, kili said:

This show rarely highlights things for no reason. They repeatedly showed the three locks on the cabin. And then Rebecca kind of losing it locking them all. I wonder if Rebecca ended up having a mental break at some point. That those locks on the door were to protect Randall from William. To protect her world. I wonder if she is on medication now and that is part of the reason she's a little flatter in the current scenes.

I think the clicking noises Randall kept hearing were the locks; seeing her inside and unable to hear him saying they were outside and okay, he finally recognized she was in her own prison.

[TobinAlbers]

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

I also thought Mandy Moore nailed the last scene when she broke into sobs with Randall at the door. I might not agree with how Rebecca handled things, but I get it. She might be wrong, but her actions are understandable on many human, imperfect levels.

I was holding it together until that moment when he acknowledged how lonely she must've felt holding that secret - which was so damn gracious of Randall- and all I could think of was that Jack and Rebecca raised a damned compassionate kid which somehow made the betrayal all the more worse.

Randall's list of the moments William could've been there for him, to me, meant that Jack had not been around for them -his high school valedictorian speech, the birth of his children. Ugh. It GUTS me to realize Jack of all people did not get to experience the fruits of his labors as a dad with Randall and that Randall didn't get to share those moments with him.

'When I saw you, I knew you were mine.' What every child -natural or adopted - wants and needs to hear.

And yet we also now get confirmation why young Randall worked his ass off to be smart, perfect, polite and so nice. He felt a target on his back in being the 'other' and didn't want to give them or anyone a reason to 'take him back'. Poor kid.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Jack's is the saddest story of all, to me.  He has been the best dad in the world, but, according to the show,  it wasn't enough, he wasn't able to teach Randall the things he needed to know because his skin wasn't the right color. 

And yet Jack despite how afraid and lacking he must've felt was totally about doing what he felt Randall needed. Most men would've been outwardly hostile and threatened that as a father he wasn't enough for their child -especially a son. How hard must it have been for him to admit that there as something he just couldn't give Randall emotionally and yet he put those feelings aside and went about every way he knew how to give it to him by asking the right questions and taking him to someone who could help. His fear and uncertainty was palpable in both the scene where he first takes him to the dojo and later when he's asked to do the push ups. Jack didn't stop even when he was told to stop and only stopped when he was physically unable to move on and Rebecca came to his side to reassure him.

We're gonna get our bubble burst soon about Jack as no one is THIS perfect. I was sure that Rebecca was going to blurt out her secret about William to make Jack complicit in keeping the secret and was relieved that it didn't have (at least not in this episode) but as Jack hinted, he wasn't perfect and his and Becca's marriage was hard so whatever Jack's failings, we're gonna see it soon for sure.

Rebecca is getting a lot of stuff thrown at her, but I don't see her as a villain. As someone pointed out, she already lost one child she couldn't lose another, as a mother she was trying to hold SO much together and she made some hard choices that yes, protected her emotionally, but also in her mind, her family. William's exuberance at the possibility of seeing Randall was heartbreaking but understandable just as Rebecca running because even though logically it was very doubtful that William could ever regain custody of Randall, Rebecca was operating on emotion and while William may not physically take Randall away, she knew she could lose him to William emotionally that would undermine her relationship with him. Selfish? Yes and no, but also understandable.

ETA: The video of Sterling not only doing push ups with Milo on his back but then Justin Hartley shows how he's just the man! 

Edited November 30, 2016 by TobinAlbers

[GodsBeloved]

11 hours ago, betweenthebanter said:

I love how all the POVs about William being in Randell's life were depicted. William's sadness when he was reading the letter was heartbreaking, but I would have had the same fears as Rebecca, if I were in her shoes.

I do think that Rebecca should have told Jack about William and told Randell, once he turned 18, but I still felt a lot of sympathy for her.

I have sympathy for her too especially now. She did reach out to William for Randall's sake and I thought she was going to let them meet but then the RJ push ups happened and as much as she couldn't lose Randall I think she couldn't see Randall and Jack's bond threatened. I think seeing Jack commit to putting his all on the line for Randall changed Rebecca's mind about introducing Randall to William.

I understand Randall feels betrayed but hopefully he will understood why his mom made the chose she made. Plus, for all of Rebecca's faults, Randall has 2, yes 2 good parents who love him.

[Biggie B]

Quote

Jamie Gertz must have got teased a LOT during rehearsals about that cell signal scene. 

Jamie Gertz is the actress who plays Kate's new boss back in California. The young lady who played Sloane is the actress who's in the AT&T commercials.

Powerful episode with A LOT going on. Add me to the long list of Olivia detesters. She is a vile person, just wretched. I've hated her from the get-go. I think I had one moment of sympathy for her, when she ranted about how horrible her family is, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're great people and she's the assh*le of the family. How the hell are she and Kevin going to be able to perform this play together, though? Ugh.

Good for Toby for ending the phone call. I can't stand him either (hey, maybe he should meet Olivia), but he was completely correct - he can't be Kate's "person" if they're broken up - it's all or nothing for them, no platonic friendship is going to work for Toby, as it shouldn't, that's not what he's looking for. But so many of us have been where Kate is...when something huge happens, you immediately want to talk to the person who'll "get it." But she forfeited that privilege.

I don't find Jack attractive at all - perhaps it's the greasy hair and yucky mustache, but he does nothing for me at all. Sure, he's in great shape, but nothing extraordinary. That said, he's doing a great job with the character. I am invested in him, and am dreading his death, as we know it's obviously untimely and will devastate/has devastated those left behind.

When Randall and Hallucination Jack were outside the cabin looking in at Rebecca as she frantically ran through the rooms, locking doors, etc., what is it that she was running from and fearing? Was this what she did in the immediate wake of Jack's death? I hope we are given an explanation. It was very striking to have Randall call out to her at that moment.

Overall, a moving and intense episode. Each of these characters has flaws and weaknesses, along with strong personalities. They are engrossing...I really do want to see what happens next, as well as seeing what has happened.

[SimoneS]

I also loved Randall knowing that William right outside the door behind Beth. I chuckled at his idiosyncratic list making of reasons that he was angry at his mother only to tell Beth and William that he was angry at them also, but didn't have a list for them.

[candall]

15 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

What got me about the dojo scene was that when Jack got tired of lifting Randall and was told the stop, he took a deep breath and said no, I can do it and then continued to lift his son.

I was SURE the point of that scene was going to be that, when Jack finally failed from exhaustion, the other men would crowd in and help lighten the load--maybe taking Randall onto their own backs for awhile.  Wasn't that the theme when the sensei(?) introduced Randall and pulled in the fathers--from now on you'll turn to each other when you stumble.  It takes a village!

[Guest]

I thought this was a weak episode- probably the weakest one yet.  Part of that was that I felt let down. I was looking forward to the Big Three interacting as adults.  Not Kevin bringing those awful people to their special place and Randall being high. 

I can see why Rebecca made the choice she did, but watching Randall want so badly to connect with those who are the same race and knowing she kept him from that is also hard.  When he referred to himself as a replacement for the dead triplet, it was so sad. 

The best scene was Jack doing the push-ups. 

[GodsBeloved]

10 hours ago, cardigirl said:

It may be an unpopular opinion, but I was put off by Randall's intense anger at his mother. Kind of a spoiled brat reaction, it seemed to me. The whole thing about telling his wife that he didn't have a Beth or William list. Oh poor Randall, everyone conspires against him, that's why his life is so bad. 

I would understand disappointment, and shock, and some anger. To me he came across as entitled, I hope he gains some empathy in the future. 

Not that I agree completely with Rebecca's choices, but I do understand her fear of losing another child. I thought that hallucination Jack did well in revealing Rebecca's inner turmoil and fear at losing her family. 

I wouldn't say that I was put off but I am not that sympathetic towards Randall in this situation and some of the reasons are those you mentioned.

[cardigirl]

9 hours ago, Court said:

Wanting to know who your birth parents are and where you came from isn't spoiled. I think his anger is justified and I'm happy that the final scene wasn't complete forgiveness. I do think the see you at Christmas was partly for his kids/siblings and also a way to tell Rebecca that he won't be in contact with her until then.

I understand why Rebecca didn't tell him and I can sympathize with her about her fears of her losing her kids. But what she did betrayed her child. I think she needs to understand what Randall is going through. So far, we haven't seen that.

So far, all we've been shown of the interactions of the parents with the kids is that Randall gets everything, private school, karate classes, lots of attention. Everyone makes way for Randall; his wife, his biological father, in this instance his brother and sister. I'm hoping that as the show progresses, we will see more individual parenting moments between the parents and the other two kids. Right now, the main emphasis has been on their relationship with Randall and how he is extreme in his reactions to everything.  He gives with his whole heart, there is no halfway with anything.  Didn't his mother tell William that Randall went blind because of stress over something?  So everyone seems to walk on eggshells a bit with Randall, and I don't see him as this tower of perfection. 

The little boy who plays young Randall is adorable, and I very much liked the scene where Jack did push ups with him on his back, and the other fathers in the group were also pledging their support for Randall, but I wondered where his brother and sister were when this happened.

One of my favorite relationships on this show is between Kate and Kevin.  And I enjoyed seeing the three of them together at the cabin, I would like to see more of that.  And more of them as younger kids interacting together. 

[luna1122]

14 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

 

When Randall and Hallucination Jack were outside the cabin looking in at Rebecca as she frantically ran through the rooms, locking doors, etc., what is it that she was running from and fearing? Was this what she did in the immediate wake of Jack's death? I hope we are given an explanation. It was very striking to have Randall call out to her at that moment.

 

I took this to be metaphorical, not literal in any way. She's just constantly worried and scared and fears for her kids, so the locks represented trying to protect them, and her fears. I read something with Dan Fogelman but can't recall where right now...that Rebecca is a kind of a melancholy person, and the parent onto whom it falls to do the mundane things, the day to day worrying about lunches and school and stuff, and the frenzy of the locks was just about her juggling it all, on top of being the one who knows about Randall's real dad and keeping that secret.

 

I never found Milo hot before in any role and it's not actually his body that I find attractive now, tho it is, and goddess knows I hate a pornstache, but there is just something really sexy about him in this role, for me. And it's not the dad thing, I never was one of those women who are all like 'oh, look at him with that baby, my ovaries just exploded" (which: gross). He just seems like a grownup, and a good man, so that's sexy. And there is something about his VOICE that gets to me, tho it never did before. I don't even know, but yeah, he's hot now to me, for whatever reason.

[GodsBeloved]

10 hours ago, Crs97 said:

We haven't seen anything about Rebecca's reaction yet.  She hasn't been allowed to finish a sentence yet. You would think someone would ask her why instead of just talking about how crazy she was.

I didn't love William's explanation that he was just abiding by her wishes - no explanation to Randall that for the first four years (at least since I still don't believe that he has been completely clean ever since) of Randall's life he was still using drugs and wouldn't have been able to be a parent.

I am tired of everything feeling like it's all the mom's fault.  She needs to catch a break at some point.

When it was Kate who labeled Rebecca's action crazy I thought this from the woman who stalked Toby's ex. 

Now that you mention it, I agree about William.

[Biggie B]

Quote

 

It may be an unpopular opinion, but I was put off by Randall's intense anger at his mother. Kind of a spoiled brat reaction, it seemed to me. The whole thing about telling his wife that he didn't have a Beth or William list. Oh poor Randall, everyone conspires against him, that's why his life is so bad. 

I would understand disappointment, and shock, and some anger. To me he came across as entitled, I hope he gains some empathy in the future. 

 

I think Randall will work through his searing anger. I think that he knows, on some level, that he can't sustain such severe emotions indefinitely. This turn of events has completely shattered him and has brought every insecurity and fear he's ever had right to the surface. It's so raw right now that it's going to take him a bit of time to put things back together, and even then, things aren't going to be quite the same. I would like to think that he understands that, but working through these intense emotions is going to be a brutal process for which there's no timetable and no template to follow. He'll get there - I hope! - but not before struggling badly, and definitely not before hurting Rebecca along the way, unfortunately.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Biggie B

[OtterMommy]

8 hours ago, Cardie said:

It's really not fair of the show to make Jack the model parent and Rebecca the insecure, selfish b**ch. I do understand why she never told Randall when he was 18, because once you carry a lie like that it's very hard to admit to it later. William is once more a saint, not telling Randall when the secret gets out that he asked to see young Randall and Rebecca cut off contact. I do love Jack and William but all the mom-blame gets tiresome, even if they try to make some excuses for Rebecca's actions.

It may not be fair, but--sadly--it is realistic.  The fact is Jack is gone and the big three probably idolize him more in his absence than they did in his life.  My aunt and uncle had several kids and my uncle died several years ago, after all the kids were well into adulthood (my aunt in still living).  Even though my uncle was an uninvolved parent at best, you'd think by talking to his kids that he walked on water (and, unfortunately, their mother was the root of all their problems).  This is a completely different narrative from what they had when he was still living and healthy and, frankly, not an accurate one.

It's not fair...but it's natural.

[GodsBeloved]

So why is Randall drinking from strange cups? He knows it isn't his. Did he think Kate or Kevin brought it and he'd take a swig without asking them?

Edited November 30, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[Neurochick]

What's great about this show is that no one is 100% right and 100% wrong.  No one, except maybe Olivia is one dimensional

Jack was a great dad to Randall, but because he wasn't black, there were things he couldn't give Randall, and he knew it, that's hard but that is true.  Randall was Rebecca's favorite, I remember how happy she was when he finally took her breast; there was the bond right there.  Rebecca has always seen Randall as HER son, to her, William was an intruder.   When William was going on and on about what he wanted to do with Randall, I laughed because that's such a recovering drug addict/alcoholic thing to do, to go on and on about the future, you're sober, and you think you can take over the world you start projecting.  He should have talked to his sponsor first; the sponsor would have told him to keep it simple and first things first, start small.  He was so happy that he didn't realize he overwhelmed Rebecca, scared the shit out of her. 

Toby did the healthy thing with Kate.  If they've broken up, Kate doesn't have the right to run to him when she needs an ear, as if they're still together.  I had to do that with someone and I didn't want to do it, but in the end it was the best thing.  Kevin basically did that too with Olivia, he put up a boundary.  He thought he and Olivia were together, but she disrespected him by bringing her ex there so Kevin told them to leave and defended Kate.  Boundaries are not easy but they are necessary if you don't want to get run over. 

I still say that the only reason Randall is upset is because William is a nice, old dying man.  Had William been a real SOB, or in prison for murder, I doubt that Randall would have been SO upset with Rebecca. 

[Bean421]

I so understand Rebecca. I don't agree with her choices, but I understand them. We have a complicated adoption with my youngest Bean, that involves addiction. It's tricky to know how to navigate those circumstances, I can't imagine how it would have been in the 80's. This is one of the more realistic portrayals of adoption that I've ever seen on television. 

Right now the main arc of the show is the secrets of Randall's adoption. As the show progresses we'll probably have more Kate or Kevin focused episodes too.