S03.E07: Killer Frost

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Caitlin uses her powers to save Barry but, as her mother predicted, the effort unleashes her inner Killer Frost. Killer Frost then goes on a rampage looking for Dr. Alchemy, kidnapping Julian and battling both the Flash and Vibe. Meanwhile, Joe and H.R. have a heart-to-heart talk.

[Trini]

BTS photo from Kevin Smith:

https://twitter.com/ThatKevinSmith/status/800777887116709888

Edited November 22, 2016 by Trini

[Trini]

Producer preview:

Come on; Cisco didn't develop an entire new personality when he got powers.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Trini

[Airraz0r]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Producer preview:

 

Come on; Cisco didn't develop an entire new personality when he got powers.

Caitlin has issues which she never resolved, first with her mother. Losing her dad at a young age & losing Ronnie twice. Ends up with Zoom, who later to be a psychopath & seeing her twisted doppelganger from Earth-2. In a sense she's like a volcano, all that heartbreak building up so much until it can't take it anymore. It erupts for a time & it stops.

[mtlchick]

Barry receiving the full "YOU'RE A SELFISH BASTARD" treatment from Caitlin and Cisco screams Thanksgiving.

So now Barry's out of a job? Maybe he can get a job as a barista at Jitters.  

Shout out to those who called Alchemy as Julian.  

Caitlin's transformation to Killer Frost is strangely underwhelming.

[cambridgeguy]

For some reason I thought Cisco knew Dante was alive in the previous timeline, but apparently not.  Caitlin was right, other people are paying the price for Barry's incredibly selfish move.  Of course, all of these people were totally on board the first time this came up at the end of season 1.

On the other hand, apparently Wally's life is great!  Of course there has to be a catch coming up because otherwise having two speedsters gives the good guys too much of an advantage when they're not facing the god of speed.

Barry doesn't really need a job, he can pull cash from the same infinite account Cisco and Caitlin use to keep Star Labs running and maintain a living wage - that being said, once Julian is outed I suspect Barry will get his old job back.

[SnoGirl]

Ugh. Julian as Alchemy? Put me in the bummed group. I was hoping for more for him than the puppet for the big bad (Hello Malfoy, different fandom, practically the same character).

I like that they were able to bring Caitlyn back from the brink. I don't like her powers make her evil, I like when my villians make the choice to do the wrong thing. I guess she made the choice to not kill Barry, so there's that.

I don't mind the sad Cisco arc. I miss geeky over-excited puppy Cisco, but I this storyline gives him some more depth. I wonder what its like at Cisco's apartment for both of them now...

[Lantern7]

Man, Julian was channeling a lot of fans. Of course, he turns out to be Alchemy. And even if that wasn't the case, Barry would still find a way to rejoin CCPD.

The crossover can't come fast enough. I know Barry deserves grief, but he's such a puppy. A time-traveling puppy who can wreck continuity, but still a puppy.

Still not getting how Caitlin can have powers, when it was established that she wasn't affected by the reactor last season. At least the effects people are having fun with the echo effect.

Anybody else hoping Wally doesn't go with yellow? I don't think that color works in live action.

ETA: I vote we dub Savitar "Doomsday Flash." Who's with me?

[phoenics]

So - Caitlin isn't responsible for her actions because "it was the powers"?  That's BS.  It literally flies in the face of the entire show and what the show laid out early on.  The powers are supposed to bring out what's already there.  If she was upset over all the mess she's gone through, fine, but she's still responsible, so a "sorry" just doesn't cut it.  She tried to kill both Barry and Cisco, and she went bad pretty fast and in an unbelievable way.

Glad Wally has speed.

Iris continues to be the best - even with the potshot Caitlin took at her - she was right in what she said to Barry.  He did cause this and should feel sorry for it, but he can't change it now and the only thing he can do is move forward.  Caitlin and Cisco have every right to be mad, but becoming murderous (looking at you Cait) is on YOU, not Barry.

Barry literally got dragged all episode by everyone except Iris, lol.  Savitar did it physically and then everyone else did it symbolically.

And now Barry's homeless and jobless.

He'll get his job back once Julian is outed as Alchemy.

[Primal Slayer]

Best episode of the season imo.

Caitlin was great and I totally floved her this episode. I am beyond happy that they let her use her powers in various and creative ways instead of just icicles like they did with E2 Killer Frost. The blonde streaks look good on her, she should've kept them. Hopefully they let her retain her sass since it's a lot more enjoyable then cookie cutter Caitlin. I just didn't like how Barry was able to talk the "killer" out of her so easily. 

They really need to reign in Ciscos powers, he can see the future, teleport, go to different Earths, use it as a physical offense, thats A LOT of different uses. 

It is great that Barry/Iris get to be a couple but now they just have her spend most of her time propping up Barry. 

[phoenics]

9 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

 

ETA: I vote we dub Savitar "Doomsday Flash." Who's with me?

I dunno - he seems more like Megatron Flash to me.  And Alchemy is Starscream!

Heh.

[benteen]

Barry finally being taken to task for his actions was immensely satisfying.  He deserved every bit of it.

As silly as the whole powers making her evil thing is, I enjoyed Caitlin and her storyline a lot. 

Still a mixed bag of an episode to a show that has increasingly gotten worse since the final 1/3 of Season 1.

Can't wait for the crossover though I'm sick to death of seeing the same stupid commercial for it over and over again!

[phoenics]

Also - pretty sure this episode foreshadowed something happening to Iris.

There are some BTS shots of Savitar with Iris and hurting her and then Barry holding her body.  She's hurt by Savitar, but hopefully not killed.  I might die.

[bettername2come]

Ok, so Barry needs to start making his giant company profitable if he's not going to have a job.

I liked that Barry got called out on all his shit. I'm surprised that Caitlin's arc reached such a sudden conclusion, although she did seem conflicted the whole time, so I guess she never went full Killer Frost. I'm looking forward to seeing how Cisco and Barry work their stuff out. Please don't make Cisco evil. I'm glad they limited Cisco's teleportation power for now by making him useless after he did it. A lot happened. I kind of hoped the "Aliens!" part would happen at the end to lead us into next week's crossover.

The bad kid from Harry Potter is the villain? I'm shocked! I mean, he was mysteriously absent and has the same first few letters in his last name as the villain's name. It's a little too obvious.

[Maverick]

 This was a really odd place to end before the cliffhanger.   There's a new supervillain, Wally has powers, Cisco's crushed and Caitlin that may or may nor re-emerge and turn her against everyone.   But hey, that'll all wait while we have a big team up and fight some aliens intent on conquering the planet.

[thuganomics85]

Julian as Alchemy is so obvious, that it almost was shocking, because I really was wondering if it was too obvious, so he was just a red herring.  But, hope, of course they get Draco Malfoy to be the villain!  To be fair though, it looks like he is actually being controlled by this Savitar thing, so maybe he really isn't a bad guy, although his anti-Meta stance is still problematic.  Either way, Tom Felton continues to be the highlight of this season.  I know I should hate him for basically forcing Barry to quit in order to keep Caitlin's secret, but hey, it worked!

So, Caitlin's powers somehow change her and make her "become" Killer Frost?  That's weird.  Other meta tend to be their normal selves, but with powers.  But she basically becomes a different person because of it.  Not sure how that works.  Anyway, I wonder how long it is before she ends up becoming out of control again.  I know Danielle Panabaker is hit or miss compared to the rest, but I still think she is more comfortable with being more unhinged and, err, Killer Frosty.  And I loved her calling Barry out on all of his shit, because, yeah, she might have a few screws loose now, but it's not like she's wrong about most of it.

Cisco finding out the truth about Dante and how Barry fucked things up, was a good reveal.  I don't blame him for being mad at all, but I worry that this is just a set-up to make him turn bad, and maybe that's what is really going on during his "vibe."

More Joe and HR, please.  In general, Jesse L. Martin and Tom Cavanagh need to be in plenty of scenes together.  And HR's reference to Captain Cold made me laugh.

Wally is out of his cocoon and has speedster powers, of course.  All looks good now, but, yeah, the other shoe will likely drop soon.

At least Barry still has Iris, who I do think is doing a good job at being supportive, but also being truthful to Barry, not babying him like Joe tends to do.

Easily the best episode of the season, due to everyone calling Barry out on his shit.  And despite the fact that the big bad of the season is basically another speedster, only a Transformer instead of a human.  This show does have a type, when it comes to their big baddies.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Per the intro voiceover -- "My name is Barry Allen and I am the fastest man alive".

Umm, yeah, about that ..... turns out not so much.

Savitar was carrying Barry around much like Zoom did in S2, so not much new here.

So, was Savitar a by-product of Flashpoint -- or was he always going to exist ?  If that's the case what has he been waiting for ?

About the whole "Caitlin getting powers and turning evil", Wally doesn't seem very evil. Yet.

[RedVitC]

Sorry, still not sold on the Caitlin storyline. It was good that things were laid on the table wrt Flashpoint, and she was right to be mad, but none of that justified her trying to kill her friends and others or hurt people that had nothing to do with it (or call Cisco pathetic). I get being mad at Barry, but Cisco has been nothing but supportive. Trying to pretend that it's the powers that make her evil doesn't really work with what's been established and it's probably the laziest way they could have gone about it, because it's basically a get out of jail free card. She could do anything and they could all just say, well it's not really Caitlin (it's starting to remind me of OUAT). It's a curious choice in an episode that was about facing the consequences of one's actions.

[KirkB]

40 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I dunno - he seems more like Megatron Flash to me.  And Alchemy is Starscream!

Nice. You beat me to it.  :)

I guess having powers will give Wally something to do but I still don't get why we need two speedsters. Actually, half the team has powers now. I liked it better when Barry was kind of unique. Now it's becoming the Superfriends and I'm not sure what to think.

Of course Julian is Alchemy. It's like they weren't even trying to hide it.

I guess the idea with Caitlin is unlike Barry, and Cisco, and Jesse, and Wally, and...well, pretty much every other meta really, her powers have altered her brain chemistry. It's not so much turning her into another person as screwing up the way she thinks and altering her sense of right and wrong. Killer Frost isn't evil because she has powers, the powers are making her feel different (better) when she uses them. Potentially there could be an interesting story there but they way they are doing it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Edited November 23, 2016 by KirkB
Grammar is my friend.

[catrice2]

Even though I have been on the bandwagon for Barry having consequence for Flashpoint, it as kind of harsh for Caitlyn to say he got his happy ending. After all, BOTH of his parents are dead, and it is not as if he and Iris are some great couple.  Right now I thought they were trying to "see how the relationship goes." 

I can't even remember a season or two ago, but surely it was Ronnie's choice to be a part of Firestorm?  I can't even remember how he died. 

Again, it is so hard to get behind people supposedly so"smart" doing stupid things. Sure, just let her go and not know when her "evil" side will appear. Sure, just let Wally run around when you already heard Alchemy or whomever say they have "plans" for him...no worries there!

 

Almost as bad as recruiting HR from some unknown place and trusting him with all the secrets.  Barry should be worried because he knows both Caitlyn and Cisco know everything about him, about his suit, his weak points, his strong points.  If he were the "smart" Barry that we were promised in season 1, there would be things about his abilities, etc. that he would not let them know 

[TDT]

35 minutes ago, benteen said:

Barry finally being taken to task for his actions was immensely satisfying.  He deserved every bit of it.

Hopefully it wont stop there lol..Oliver and the Legends group better read him the riot act in their respective episodes next week

[catrice2]

So disappointed that he  has not been made to answer for baby Sara. 

[Cthulhudrew]

Echoing the "why'd they go with the sudden turn in Caitlin's personality" crowd. And I don't think laying a bit of groundwork over three episodes cuts it. I think there were ample reasons for Caitlin to actually go evil- if only briefly. Things that had been set well in motion over three seasons- losing Ronnie twice; her issues with her parents; fears of what she'd seen in her doppelganger; anger over Barry's stupidity. I even think there was something they could have done with perhaps unrequited feelings towards Barry (early in season one it looked like she had a thing for him- and frankly, I thought they had better chemistry than he and Iris); the latter could certainly have motivated that "killer" kiss. Even some of the dialogue they gave her showed that they had a sense of her growing resentment underneath- but they tried to cram it all in and resolve it so abruptly, and write it off as "the powers made/make her evil." So nope. Not going to give them a pass. It's kind of a shame to me that they didn't really capitalize on their own efforts up to this point with a copout. 

(I also thought Cisco already knew about Dante; didn't he and Barry have this whole "his death is your fault" in episode 2 or 3? Or was that just Cisco upset that Barry wouldn't fix Dante's death?)

I'm also really, really tired of them constantly going into the speedster well the way they do. Now this guy! He's the fastest one there is! Gah.

On another note, I really am enjoying this new iteration of Wells. Tom Cavanagh is just such a delight to watch in all of his incarnations. How cool for him that he kind of gets to reinvent himself each season?  They should do an entire episode of just the various Wells characters. "Crisis of Infinite Wells!"

Edited November 23, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[Lady Calypso]

So, I thought it was way too obvious that Julian would be Alchemy. Much like Jay last season, I laughed it off. I will say that all is forgiven with this plot twist because I just saw Fantastic Beasts and it's Tom Felton so nostalgia makes me happy that Julian is going to become even more important in the second half.

So, Caitlin's powers are making her turn into Killer Frost. I appreciate that she was trying to fight that Killer Frost in her the entire time. She has a good arc going, even if her going evil because of her powers is somewhat tiresome. I guess she got control of her powers pretty quickly! 

I'm glad Barry got ripped on by almost everyone this episode. I like Barry, but he definitely deserves it. He really did cause all of this to happen, so I would love to see him flounder for a while without Caitlin/Cisco by his side. I'm not a huge fan of mopey Cisco, but I didn't mind him getting pissed at Barry. That being said, I still miss fun Cisco. Can him and HR/Harrison swap now? 

Caitlin/Cisco have the best relationship this season. 

Great, Wally's a speedster. Of course everything will stay just fine. 

"My name is Barry and I am the fas-"

"Actually, no. Everyone's faster than you, Barry". 

Now Wally is faster than Barry was at the beginning? Great. 

[Cthulhudrew]

4 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Nothing to see here, citizens! Just an unfortunate reply/edit issue. :(

Edited November 23, 2016 by Cthulhudrew
EDIT: Ack- hit reply instead of Edit, I guess.

[legaleagle53]

31 minutes ago, TDT said:

Hopefully it wont stop there lol..Oliver and the Legends group better read him the riot act in their respective episodes next week

And for that matter, even though it didn't affect her or her world, Supergirl should also give Barry a "You did WHAT?!?" and read him the riot act for good measure.

[RedVitC]

As for the people on the other shows scolding Barry. Arrow cast, yes. Especially Diggle. But I'll roll my eyes if they have the legends team do the same. That show is good, but the team basically stampedes through every time period they go with little subtlety. Can't go into detail because this is not the place, but they've changed stuff in pretty much every time they've gone to, not just little stuff, big stuff. The only reason the timeline hasn't changed significantly is because the show doesn't want to deal with the consequences that would bring. So no, I don't need anyone on the Legends team to talk to Barry about Flashpoint. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by RedVitC

[DearEvette]

You know, I am all for people calling Barry out on his bad decisions and selfishness but this was kinda bullshit.   Didn't they already have this conversation right after Flashpoint?  Didn't they know he caused changes?  And didn't they decide they didn't want to know?  And Iris is correct, there is no saying if Dante wouldn't have still died even without Flashpoint. And Ronnie?  Really?  If they really want to assign blame for all their woes, then shouldn't it be Eobard Thawne?

Anyway, Caitlyn's descent into Killer Frost made no sense.  Even before her powers really manifested, Cailtyn was worried about becoming Killer Frost.  But KF was her E2 doppelganger.  You can't go by what your doppelganger is like.  If that were the case then Cisco would be evil too.  But then the show had to go and try to convince us that the power itself was turning her evil, but that doesn't fit established canon either.  So it just made no sense.  But since they have made it so, I wouldn't able to look at her all chummy again if I were them.  I would be side-eyeing her ass from now on afraid she'd go all silver eyed on a dime.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

You know, I am all for people calling Barry out on his bad decisions and selfishness but this was kinda bullshit.   Didn't they already have this conversation right after Flashpoint?  Didn't they know he caused changes?  And didn't they decide they didn't want to know?  And Iris is correct, there is no saying if Dante wouldn't have still died even without Flashpoint. And Ronnie?  Really?  If they really want to assign blame for all their woes, then shouldn't it be Eobard Thawne?

Anyway, Caitlyn's descent into Killer Frost made no sense.  Even before her powers really manifested, Cailtyn was worried about becoming Killer Frost.  But KF was her E2 doppelganger.  You can't go by what your doppelganger is like.  If that were the case then Cisco would be evil too.  But then the show had to go and try to convince us that the power itself was turning her evil, but that doesn't fit established canon either.  So it just made no sense.  But since they have made it so, I wouldn't able to look at her all chummy again if I were them.  I would be side-eyeing her ass from now on afraid she'd go all silver eyed on a dime.

I was going to come in and proudly admit that I'm a Barry apologist because I don't think he needs to be called on the carpet or railed against repeatedly since he already told everyone what he had done. But you said it much better than I did @DearEvette.

[rtms77]

I honestly think that Caitlin's change could be physical or mental. I see her change as a allegory about mental illness. It warps you and changes you. You need counseling and drugs to control it, hence the cuffs at the end she was wearing to control her power taking over. Maybe this was the final breakdown/meltdown that pushed her over the edge. She comes from a high achieving family, she worked hard to be successful at an early age and got chosen by a brilliant scientist to work at a prestigious lab. Suddenly it all collapse on her, she loses her finance/husband twice, watches him turn into something she can't control, watches him sacrifice himself and die, gets manipulated by a crazed killer who kidnaps her, abuses her, meets her evil doppelganger and watches her get killed and then she gets powers out of nowhere thanks to Barry's time meddling. That is enough to send anyone over the edge.

She obviously was fighting the effects on her the whole time until Barry called her out and the normal Caitlin came back. How long she stays is up to her. Not to mention that in the real world I think it's been documented that tumors etc can have an effect on a persons personality etc. So there are  a couple of ways that she could be going bad or good or just in the middle. We don't know how this Caitlin Snow body reacted to the explosion or why she did when the normal time line seemed to leave her alone?  Maybe like Jesse and Wally she was caught in the energy wave instead of being protected? Who knows since the show insists on leaving the actual story off stage and let the gaping holes be filled with "Flashpoint" every time something comes up.

[RedVitC]

Some more unrelated (to each other) thoughts:

I liked the scene with Barry and Iris. They have a really intimate chemistry and I love watching them. And the lighting of that shot was beautiful.

I kind of wish we could get to the lighter season the EP's said this would be.

The team is becoming really overpowered with both Wally and Caitlin being Metas now. Not sure if that's a good thing for the show. It's kind of happening on all Flarrowverse shows (except Legends, that was always a superhero team up show).

I wonder if when Alchemy and/or Savitar get defeated everyone who gained Flashpoint powers loses their powers again.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Julian turns out to be Alchemy.  Wow, way to keep us deeply & lengthily in suspense there, Show.

"Our and/or our loved-ones lives were ruined because of your need to be happy above all else.  Well Happy Thanksgiving, Barry!"

I am always hesitant to congratulate it, but the writers/directors just keep bringing it on the WA front.  Its been amazing, so much its scary (in the sense that when the 'CW-fallout' occurs, its gonna crash hard).

It was nice of them to install the batteries before the cocoon, because Wally was fully-powered vibrator as soon as the package was opened.

I'm not saying it should be brushed away or laughed off, but the whole uncertainty of Cisco around Barry re: Dante's death due to Flashpoint just seems of little import.... since we all know (that most likely) in a couple episodes the team will be working as a well-oiled machine again.

Everything going on with Caitlin/KF is the same way, and her mytharc will only be dealt with again when the storyline has progressed forward to this whole plot point being worthy of highlighting again.

[JohnSmithSensei]

Why was E1 Caitlyn more creative with her powers that E2 Killer Frost? She seems more powerful, too.

[blugirlami21]

Was everyone taking stupid pills in this episode?

First Caitlin suddenly going all killer frost on everyone. I hate this storyline for her. It doesn't fit her character nor does it fit in with with the m.o. for any other meta. Why would Caitlin having powers turn her into an evil person? I hated that it literally turned her into killer frost when it should have been an evil Caitlin. They would not act the same since they are different people.

Then Joe. I didn't understand where half the shit he was talking about came from. He kept saying that no one trusted his instincts. Well with the stunt you just pulled with Wally, this is why. Why couldn't he have just let Wally "hatch" naturally? All of the other alchemy metas have done so. Why would Wally be any different? I also feel like his being Wally's dad got turned up to a thousand this season. It's all he ever has going on and I miss the old Joe.

Why is Barry changing the timeline still news? I don't understand why Caitlin and Cisco ate acting so surprised when I'm fairly certain Barry told them that he changed things. That things were different before Flashpoint. I'm so glad that Iris pointed our the fact that anything that changed are things that might have happened anyway. And nothing has been handed to Barry since he got back. He had to let his mother and father die, again to fix his mistake. 

I hate sad Cisco. I keep thinking that they will let him be fun again and then someone mentons Dante. And all I can think is you and Dante didn't get along anyway. I can't imagine Flashpoint changed that. Would you even be speaking to him if he were still alive?

[BkWurm1]

In of itself it wasn't a bad episode - there was good emotion and fast paced, liked Joe and HR bonding, but the writing failed me on every predictable, boring, choice it made.  Even the resolution of Caitlin, you can't both say her powers are making her evil but also have her just change her mind and now be fine   And so much for a twist with Cisco.  I mean they even had the set up in place, a brain injury and a betrayal but nope, Cisco gets to be more of a hero than Barry.  And no one is even acting concerned that Wally might be a threat.  But Caitlin, that weak minded woman, is still one misstep away from going evil?  

Also really underwhelmed that Julian is Doc Alchemy.  Way to be boring show.  

[VCRTracking]

Quote

Why is Barry changing the timeline still news? I don't understand why Caitlin and Cisco ate acting so surprised when I'm fairly certain Barry told them that he changed things. That things were different before Flashpoint.  And nothing has been handed to Barry since he got back. He had to let his mother and father die, again to fix his mistake. 

He told them he changed things but he didn't tell Cisco that his brother was alive in the previous timeline and Barry told Caitlin that her suddenly having powers was because of his changing the timeline.

Quote

I'm so glad that Iris pointed our the fact that anything that changed are things that might have happened anyway.

Umm.....

[Trini]

So much to process in the episode -- and then everything is halted for the crossover next week. :-/

Julian is Alchemy because OF COURSE it's the most famous guest star. So glad I didn't waste time with other speculations.

Wow, I thought they'd keep Wally in that cocoon longer. I'm interested in seeing how they work out the show having two speedster heroes.

Everyone has pointed out the plot holes with Caitlin/Killer Frost; but I will say that I liked that they showed the range of her powers. Although, it makes me think that they crammed so much of that in this episode because we likely will not be seeing those powers much after this.

Don't think I like that the main villain is all CGI (we have the budget for that?). Is he some type of embodiment of the speed force? Why does he need Alchemy? (On a superficial note, I'm NOT pleased with the 'video game alien' look for Savitar.)

Barry's out of CCPD?? Is he moving back in with Joe? But seriously, I wonder if they'll try and have him get another job, or live off his STAR Labs inheritance.

And so many other things....

[Mellowyellow]

Just watched this. Hubby and I are confused. 

Is Julian Alchemy or is he newly recruited to be Alchemy? Why was he running away from the big bad?

Is Killer Frost not crazy anymore? Will she still go crazy if she uses her powers?

Edited November 23, 2016 by Mellowyellow

[srpturtle80]

Geez, you guys think something is going to happen to Iris? That's the second episode in a row with the same conversation: Barry: I can't do this without you.  Iris: You'll never have to. 

Foreshadowing much? 

[maxineofarc]

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is Julian Alchemy or is he newly recruited to be Alchemy? Why was he running away from the big bad?

Is Killer Frost not crazy anymore? Will she still go crazy if she uses her powers?

It looks to me like Julian is Alchemy but he's pretty upset about it. (Yes, yes, of course the new guy on the show was going to be a villain but I was still really hoping he wasn't because I really like Tom Felton on this show. At least I know he can pull off "morally conflicted." I think it's most of his resume by now.) Alchemy appeared to be a willing acolyte of Savitar, kneeling when he first appeared, so there is more than meets the eye going on here. Multiple Alchemys? Maybe he doesn't know what he's doing?

Barry better not still be living at Cisco's. I was so glad somebody finally stopped babying him and laid it out for him how selfish his actions have been, and even though I miss chipper Cisco, I'm glad he isn't letting Barry off the hook. Which in turn makes me wonder if that will drive Cisco away from the team and possibly become the Vibe he saw fighting Caitlin.

Power of friendship stabilizes Killer Frost? Really?

[Primetimer]

But will her cold lips actually result in Barry dying?

View the full article

[KirkB]

So, Savitar has a bunch of acolytes? Fine. As a self proclaimed god of speed it makes sense I guess. One of them is Dr. Alchemy, who is somehow aware (perhaps from Savitar himself) of the existence of Flashpoint and the changes which happened there, and he has the ability to turn people who were metas in Flashpoint into metas in the here and now. But why, I wonder, would Savitar want that? If he is, as he claims, the speediest speedster of all speedsters, why would he want there to be a bunch more metas, including other speedsters? It's not like they all worship him. And as I recall in his conversation with Barry he seems pretty disdainful of the Flash and the Speed Force, but as a speedster (god or not) wouldn't he have to be connected to it too? I know, it's still early in the season so maybe these questions will be answered later (like with Zoom, even though they kind of changed his motivations partway through), but the sad thing is I was kind of looking forward to Alchemy being the big bad, and not just another speedster.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Anyway, Caitlyn's descent into Killer Frost made no sense.  Even before her powers really manifested, Cailtyn was worried about becoming Killer Frost.  But KF was her E2 doppelganger.  You can't go by what your doppelganger is like.  If that were the case then Cisco would be evil too.  But then the show had to go and try to convince us that the power itself was turning her evil, but that doesn't fit established canon either.  So it just made no sense.  But since they have made it so, I wouldn't able to look at her all chummy again if I were them.  I would be side-eyeing her ass from now on afraid she'd go all silver eyed on a dime.

Since they seemed to play it like some entity was taking over Caitlyn that she had to fight and control, I'm fanwanking that Alchemy/Savitar is somehow involved powers gained post Flashpoint and he's adding some evil powder into the mix that wasn't part of the recipe for those that got power 'naturally' pre Flashpoint. 

Catlyn is strong enough to overcome because she has super friends.

Wally will be ok because he came out early and the evil didn't have time to take root.

Edited November 23, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Beamish]

I kept waiting for something very Kevin Smith-esque to happen, since they've been promoting his directing this episode for weeks, but I just didn't feel anything remotely close. It seemed just like it was directed by any other director on this show.

[maxineofarc]

Side note: I very nearly laughed out loud when Caitlin kidnapped Julian and was all "YOU, RANDOM CSI, MAKE AN ALGORITHM." Because "make an algorithm" is at this point the genre TV equivalent of "a wizard did it."

[DavidJSnyder]

Savitar killed all those cops at the end of last episode, didn't he?  They're not just knocked out?  Because it seems kind of a big deal that I don't think got mentioned by anybody in the police precinct.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Ummm, I think reading all the comments about how Barry should be raked over the coals over Flashpoint is the reason why I dreamt last night that I was the only one who Barry connected with and we were trying to find the cause of something and in order to do that, he had to hold my hand, fingers intertwined  so we could accomplish that!❤️???????❤️

So, I'm not blaming y'all! Just wanted to say THANK YOU!!!

Iris Who??

[Latverian Diplomat]

12 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Per the intro voiceover -- "My name is Barry Allen and I am the fastest man alive".

Umm, yeah, about that ..... turns out not so much.

 

"My name is Barry Allen, and between seasons, I am the fastest man alive." :-)

[Writing Wrongs]

I hate how everybody and their cousin is a speedster now (kinda like how everybody has mad archery skillz on Arrow.)

Tired of Barry saying "I'm sorry" every 10 minutes. That doesn't make things better, dude.

[DearEvette]

9 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Tired of Barry saying "I'm sorry" every 10 minutes. That doesn't make things better, dude.

I agree.  Which is why they either need to accept his apology and move on or don't.  But don't continue to throw stuff in his face everytime things don't go your way.  Man, I hate feeling the need to defend Barry because I do think Barry has been incredibly selfish and narcissistic but dammit, Cisco and Caitlin really need to just get over themselves. 

And I love how moralistic Julian is -- Oh you are not an honest man aren't deserving of being a CSI and a member of the police force so quit.  And then he goes and pulls out his Death Eater uniform.  Projection much?

Edited November 23, 2016 by DearEvette