S01.E08: Pilgrim Rick

[jeansheridan]

We have only seen Kate eating with control for about a month.  It takes years to lose weight.  It took me 15 months to lose 50 pounds.  Combo of age, metabolism,  and a desire to eat what I wanted in moderation.   It is so hard to maintain that discipline.  Even if the actress wants to lose weight it will take years for it to show. 

Which is why they need to give her another plot thread immediately.   A new career, a new home, just something beyond her weight.  Because it won't happen in a montage.  

I think 18 eps is too many!  I prefer the cable model of 10 or 13 eps. Forces the writers to be more efficient.

[Jx223]

1 hour ago, romantic idiot said:

This would be rich considering Rebecca was (is?) a singer. ..

 

Anyway, I also noted that Kevin's dream was playing for the Steelers, growing up. Not being an actor. I wonder when that changed. And  I wonder if the fight with Randall when the scout was watching had any negative impact on this career. 

I wonder when Kevin decided to become an actor as well. He was on "The Manny" for four years. I wonder how long he had been acting prior to getting his big break with the Manny.  Did he go to college? And did he have another career/tried to pursue other careers before getting into acting.

Maybe the family's lack of enthusiasm about his involvement with "The Manny" is less about them not thinking acting is a serious career, and more about them not thinking that Kevin is really serious about sticking with any type of career. Maybe prior to that show he was floating around trying to pursue other things and shortly before he got that gig decided to pursue acting. I wonder if Kevin was trying to pursue an acting career for 14/15+ years (or longer depending on if he went to college/what he went to college for). Or if it's something he decided to do like in his early 30's after trying to get into other careers and failing at them.  If it's the latter, I can understand a bit better why some family members might not be as enthused about his acting career. Maybe his stint with "The Manny" lasted longer than they thought it would.

I think it would be interesting if we found out that he had a football career, but it didn't work out quite as well as he hoped and it was cut short. Maybe he was a backup, that ended up playing for a bit and got hurt. And then he decided to get into acting after that.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Jx223

[Calamity Jane]

1 hour ago, romantic idiot said:

This would be rich considering Rebecca was (is?) a singer. 

Here's what I don't get. I don't see Kate having difficulty managing her food intake (minus the occasional binge), but her problem doesn't seem to be eating less, rather her problem is that she seems to have horrible metabolism and eating less doesn't seem to be working out for her. So how will gastric bypass help? Eating less doesn't seem to be the issue here.

Anyway, I also noted that Kevin's dream was playing for the Steelers, growing up. Not being an actor. I wonder when that changed. And  I wonder if the fight with Randall when the scout was watching had any negative impact on this career. 

Bypass seemed to change some things in that regard for my relatives.  I don't understand all the science, but, as I mentioned, two went instantly from pre-diabetic to normal readings before any weight loss had even occurred. And I don't know anyone who has gone back to pre-surgery weight, even if some gained back a fair amount.  I'm not saying it's a miracle cure, or for everybody, but it can have some pretty dramatic benefits.  Someone as motivated as Kate seems like a good candidate.  

[saber5055]

To posters who think Rebecca seems more subdued in present compared to past, I'll just say that someone who is 60 has WAY LESS energy and enthusiasm than someone who is 30. And that's a fact, Jack. Doesn't necessarily mean she is unhappy, she's just ... older. It will happen to you guys, too. Just wait a few decades.

[ShadowFacts]

26 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

To posters who think Rebecca seems more subdued in present compared to past, I'll just say that someone who is 60 has WAY LESS energy and enthusiasm than someone who is 30. And that's a fact, Jack. Doesn't necessarily mean she is unhappy, she's just ... older. It will happen to you guys, too. Just wait a few decades.

Oh yes.  Life will take some bloom off the rose.  Not everybody is a sassy, wisecracking Golden Girl. 

[Sake614]

I've never been obese, or even really overweight. But I did need to shed 20 lbs for myself. So I would look and feel better. It isn't just about eating LESS, so much as eating RIGHT. I would eat less and lose only 1/4 lb. or I'd gain a lb. it was very frustrating, especially as I would see women who were huge, and they'd lose 8 lbs in a week. Sure I knew there was a big difference between us but that didn't stop me from being disappointed and discouraged. Thankfully I was on weight watchers and keeping a food diary since I had to track points. When I showed it to the group leader after the meeting, she helped me see that Just  keeping to the correct number of points each day/week wasn't enough, and that I needed to eat differently. Less carbs, more protein. Be more active. More fruits and veggies. Etc. it may sound like a 'duh' moment, but I'd never had to worry about it before and didn't have a clue what needed to be done to actually lose the weight. In the past it was always enough to simply cut out candy, cake and cookies. Once I figured it out, I was losing 1-2 lbs/week most of the time. It still took almost a year to shed those lbs, especially the last 5. But I did it and kept it off.

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

To posters who think Rebecca seems more subdued in present compared to past, I'll just say that someone who is 60 has WAY LESS energy and enthusiasm than someone who is 30. And that's a fact, Jack. Doesn't necessarily mean she is unhappy, she's just ... older. It will happen to you guys, too. Just wait a few decades.

Maybe Im projecting, but I think Mandy is playing 2016 Rebecca as if her dreams died, just like Milo is playing 1995 Jack as if his dreams faded.  IMHO, there is a difference between 'slow because of age' and 'worn down by life event(s)'. 

I think, and I could be totally wrong, that as they fill in the gaps we will see that Jack giving up his dream of opening his own firm combined with working to support the family wore him down until he was just broken.  And I think we will see that Jack's death, regardless of circumstances, instantly broke something in Rebecca.

[saber5055]

Tiger said: "Maybe Im projecting, but I think Mandy is playing 2016 Rebecca as if her dreams died," Exactly what I was trying to say. Most people who are 60, more or less, are dealing with dead dreams. It comes with the territory of being "old." Like I said, it will happen to you youngsters in a few decades. Very few people end their lives satisfied. And Sake614, what you say about Weight Watchers and needing help from your group leader is exactly my problem with how Kate is being portrayed. Obviously, no one, including her "group leader," has told that group what is best to eat (and it's not dry leaves and cardboard) to lose weight and satisfy cravings and appetite, and how to keep to a program. Everyone I know who has been through WW has lost and kept it off, unlike the gastric bypass people I know who use GB as a "quick and easy fix." Kate sounds like she's doing the GB as the easy way out, a recipe for disaster in my book.

[Clanstarling]

17 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Tiger said: "Maybe Im projecting, but I think Mandy is playing 2016 Rebecca as if her dreams died," Exactly what I was trying to say. Most people who are 60, more or less, are dealing with dead dreams. It comes with the territory of being "old." Like I said, it will happen to you youngsters in a few decades. Very few people end their lives satisfied.

What s/he said. There are no do-overs, and for some things, it really does get to be too late. It's trite I know (thought so when I was younger) but it really does pass by quickly while you're occupied with day-to-day life.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Clanstarling

[MsJamieDornan]

I think Mandy is playing it very subdued. But, I am going to wait and see if we find out more about what has gone on in her life to make her that way.  Personally, I dont think its because she is older now. She's not ancient, 60 isnt 85. Usually a person does not change that much.

Miguel had no right to even ask for the hat.

Olivia is a pain in the ass. Kevin can do better.

I dont even care about Kate. I actually think she was silly to dump Toby. She's 36 and hasnt lost the weight yet and she may not, keep the guy that cares about you.

[PepperMonkey]

I agree with whomever said something seems to be broken in Rebecca. It seems like more to me than just dead dreams and "old" age. I have more than my share of dream corpses stacked in the hallway closet and I'll be 60 next year and I still feel the same inside that I did 30 years ago. People don't change that much. Now I can see myself in 10 more years possibly more worn down by life. I may be wrong, but I thought Jack and Rebecca were older parents, though, meaning she may be playing older than 60. Wasn't Jack supposed to be 36 when the kids were born? Was Rebecca that much younger than he was? Aren't the "triplets" 36 now?

Also, I agree with Chocolatine, and that was well said, by the way: that Miguel does have a right to respect from his wife's children, but he does not have the right to insinuate himself into their history they had with their father. Just because he was a friend of Jack's doesn't automatically entitle him to be a welcome participant in all of those memories. I still do believe he really wanted to do the pilgrim hat thing for the granddaughters, but how unaware is he if he doesn't realize how that might make "the big 3" feel about seeing him playing the role their dad originated.

Finally, Toby: I know he is polarizing and maybe he's supposed to be. But I don't like him and I'm not sure he cares that much about Kate. Do we think that he cares about her because he wanted to date her and sleep with her even though she's fat? If he cared that much about her, he would catch some of her subtle hints and signals and never would have ruined her special football tradition with his stupid horn-in. Also, if he cares that much about her, he will stay on the eating plan with her. For him to act as if she's stupid for wanting to lose weight, when he likes her just the way she is, doesn't show much thought for her feelings. I think he's going to be around for the long haul, though, so I'm hoping they work to evolve his character. He needs to grow up.

[Clanstarling]

50 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

She's not ancient, 60 isnt 85. Usually a person does not change that much.

That hasn't been my experience, but as in all things, mileage varies.

One could argue that "just dead dreams and old age" is the cumulative result of all of the blows we take in life - emotional, physical, financial, and so on. How heavily it weighs on us depends on the individual, and whether or not we have enough positive people and experiences in our lives to balance out the equation. Not to mention our natures. Rebecca doesn't seem to have the sunniest nature.

We already know, or at least suspect, Rebecca's experience being married to a man with drinking issues wasn't exactly a picnic, and then he dies young, leaving her with three teenagers to finish raising, which was overwhelming enough when she had a partner. At the present time, there are clearly tensions with her kids, who throw a lot of attitude toward the man she (presumably) loves, it seems to me she's got plenty of reason not to be the same woman she was when she was younger.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Clanstarling

[theatremouse]

I don't think we've really seen a ton of current-year Rebecca, and in those situations we did, she was in a reasonably tense place. There were what, 15 seconds of interaction with her when they stopped by before Hamilton before she found out William was in the house? I'm not saying some of her energy can't realistically be just...time catches up with you, nor that it can't be something about her hopes and dreams being shattered or whatever else. But she's also been sitting on a potential landmine, that in this episode, blew up. So at this point it's impossible for me to conclude: is her vibe her vibe just now vs younger, or is it specifically because of what's been shown to be going on right now.

[Sayla Vee]

27 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

 

We already know, or at least suspect, Rebecca's experience being married to a man with drinking issues wasn't exactly a picnic,

I don't buy Jack as a man with "drinking issues."  What I saw was a man who seemed to be avoiding going home.   He was stuck in a job he hated, his wife was always busy with the kids as was he when he was home, and his own dreams were slipping by unrealized.  Once Rebecca warned him that she wouldn't put up with his drinking and threatened to leave, he gave it up way too easily and too quickly for it to have been a problem.  I got the strong impression that It never happened again, and he zoned back in again on his marriage and family.  Whatever else happened, I don't think Jack's drinking was a cause in any future unhappiness in Rebecca's life.

[chocolatine]

38 minutes ago, PepperMonkey said:

I agree with whomever said something seems to be broken in Rebecca. It seems like more to me than just dead dreams and "old" age. I have more than my share of dream corpses stacked in the hallway closet and I'll be 60 next year and I still feel the same inside that I did 30 years ago. People don't change that much. Now I can see myself in 10 more years possibly more worn down by life. I may be wrong, but I thought Jack and Rebecca were older parents, though, meaning she may be playing older than 60. Wasn't Jack supposed to be 36 when the kids were born? Was Rebecca that much younger than he was? Aren't the "triplets" 36 now?

Rebecca should be 66 in the present day. She was 29 - "almost 30", according to Jack - when they had the fight about having children at the bar during the Super Bowl, and we were led to believe she conceived the Big Three later that night. So she would have been 30 when they were born, and 66 when they turn 36.

[PepperMonkey]

I can see myself in about 7 more years waving my fist in the air and telling the whippersnappers to get off my lawn.

[JudyObscure]

I don't understand Toby getting the "It's all about me," label when I thought it was Kate who was too focused on herself to make the relationship work.  Not that there's anything wrong with her choice to focus on herself and her weight at this point in her life, but what I can't see is Toby as Mr. Selfish, when it was Kate who said, "I can't be with a fat man," because she felt like going on a diet.  Toby was unselfish enough to try to diet with her, but he, like most people, just couldn't stick it for the long haul.  He did try for her sake, though.  Toby wants to spend the evening with Kate watching the game.  Kate says , "No," because she wants to watch the game alone while pretending that her father's ashes are actually her father and that they're watching together.  Toby finds out and is willing to go along with the slightly crazy "tradition," for Kate's sake, but it turns out he paused the TV at the wrong moment and she just can't tolerate that.  Kate wants Toby to deny himself desserts because she is on a diet.  She tells him to go ahead and order one then gets mad at him for it.  She binges on donuts and blames him.  Kate goes to Overeaters Anonymous and either ridicules the other people's concerns or gives them the stink eye while they're baring their soul.  Kate breaks-up with Toby because she just doesn't have time for anyone but herself. Kate busts into Thanksgiving and makes her announcement without once thinking that conversations might already be going on. And  everyone thinks Toby is selfish and it's all about him.

I don't particularly like Toby, either the character or the actor, he just doesn't charm me, but why the relationship problems are all his fault and Kate deserves so much better is lost on me. 

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Toby wants to spend the evening with Kate watching the game.  Kate says , "No," because she wants to watch the game alone while pretending that her father's ashes are actually her father and that they're watching together. 

To be fair, Toby just wanted to hang out with her again, and she said she wanted to watch the game. So he was being kind of needy with not giving her "a night off" to do something she wanted to do solo. (And the live game pause on third down is *unforgivable* for a die-hard fan, I don't care what arguments anyone makes) ;)

Edited November 27, 2016 by ClareWalks

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't particularly like Toby, either the character or the actor, he just doesn't charm me, but why the relationship problems are all his fault and Kate deserves so much better is lost on me.

Great post JudyObscure .  

Kate admitted that he is everything she ever dreamed of. Not many people have someone like that.

He offered to diet when he is with her, he offered not to eat dessert, and so on. It wasnt enough, nothing seems to be enough for her.

[HeyThere83]

2 hours ago, Sayla Vee said:

I don't buy Jack as a man with "drinking issues."  What I saw was a man who seemed to be avoiding going home.   He was stuck in a job he hated, his wife was always busy with the kids as was he when he was home, and his own dreams were slipping by unrealized.  Once Rebecca warned him that she wouldn't put up with his drinking and threatened to leave, he gave it up way too easily and too quickly for it to have been a problem.  I got the strong impression that It never happened again, and he zoned back in again on his marriage and family.  Whatever else happened, I don't think Jack's drinking was a cause in any future unhappiness in Rebecca's life.

Stuff happens so quickly and is resolved so quickly....i'm never really sure if things will pop backup again in future episodes. 

[breezy424]

11 hours ago, saber5055 said:

To posters who think Rebecca seems more subdued in present compared to past, I'll just say that someone who is 60 has WAY LESS energy and enthusiasm than someone who is 30. And that's a fact, Jack. Doesn't necessarily mean she is unhappy, she's just ... older. It will happen to you guys, too. Just wait a few decades.

I'm apparently hanging out with a different breed of people in their sixties. 

At the same time, I've been around some pretty unenthusiastic thirty year olds with WAY LESS energy than those who I know who are in their sixties...and even beyond.

Add to that, as someone already stated, we haven't exactly seen much of present day Rebeca except in tense moments (stopping by unannounced, Thanksgiving with William).  She seemed to be able to walk the 3.4 mile walk and she did change her demeanor when she interacted with her grandchildren on the walk.   I think she's subdued because of the circumstances.

[Kanena]

I love the details they add in. Such as Rebecca speaking in her high weird voice as the kids put it now when she visits Radall. It shows that she isn't comfortable with her kids as they have grown into adults without wasting time. 

I've never been a fan of Mandy Moore but she is doing a stellar job of playing a flawed person on this show.

[SanDiegoInExile]

Just now, breezy424 said:

.... as someone already stated, we haven't exactly seen much of present day Rebeca except in tense moments (stopping by unannounced, Thanksgiving with William).  She seemed to be able to walk the 3.4 mile walk and she did change her demeanor when she interacted with her grandchildren on the walk.   I think she's subdued because of the circumstances.

I think we have to add into the equation that Mandy Moore, although a capable actress, may not exactly know how to best portray a woman in her late 60s (66+).  The actress is doing phenomenal as a thirty-something harried housewife.  We haven't seen much of Rebecca, current day, so maybe she will surprise us.  I just don't think the aging has worked too well (so far). 

Edited November 27, 2016 by SanDiegoInExile

[Emily Thrace]

On 2016-11-25 at 9:32 AM, SueB said:

The kids may have felt Miguel took advantage of Rebecca's situation when Jack died.  

Im sure we'll find out the actual details. However, we're building to a scenario where Jack, the sole breadwinner dies and Rebecca can't possibly keep up with bills on a singing career.  If Jack didn't have proper life insurance, Miguel may have 'slid into place' a little too conveniently for the kids.   They may have felt their Mom remarried quickly because Miguel was nice and she was in a financial bind.  And they would blame Miguel, rather than dead Dad, because it's easier.  In reality, IF Rebecca was left in a bad position financially then it's either Jack or Jack AND Rebecca's fault for not getting any life insurance to cover.  Even if Randall is getting scholarships, they needed to prioritize protecting the family.  But it's a COMMON mistake (no, I don't sell life insurance!). And just this last episode demonstrated why Jack's family isn't an option for help and Rebecca would rather handle the problem then rely on racist Grandma and Grandpa. 

But I could be completely off about this.  It's just 'married his best friends wife' is a pointed comment and being opportunistic may be what the kids blame Miguel for. 

Yeah I definitely that's the most likely explanation. I also think if Jack's death happened just as the kids all left for college Rebecca might have simply been lonely and Miguel filled a void. I can only imagine how the big 3 would have felt if they went away to school after login their father to find their mother had moved on with Miguel. That said the show does love its twists so I do wonder though if Miguel might end being indirectly responsible for Jack's death. A lot construction deaths are caused by cutting corners. It could be Miguel and Jack were working on a project and Jack was killed because Miguel made a mistake or compromised safety in some way.  Or they were in an accident and Miguel was driving.

I had some serious sympathy for Randall with his racist Grandma having one of my own.

[breezy424]

20 minutes ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

I think we have to add into the equation that Mandy Moore, although a capable actress, may not exactly know how to best portray a woman in her late 60s (66+).  The actress is doing phenomenal as a thirty-something harried housewife.  We haven't seen much of Rebecca, current day, so maybe she will surprise us.  I just don't think the aging has worked too well (so far). 

Yeah, for me the 'aging' hasn't worked well at all for her..  It almost seems that she (Mandy Moore) is trying too hard.  But that could have to do with the circumstances that the audience have seen (aka we've not much really seen 'relaxed' Rebeca in her sixties).

[TheRabbi]

Speaking as someone who's father passed in 2007, and just had my mother bring someone to thanksgiving dinner for the first time (I was 21 then and am now 30), I totally get Kevin and am on his side. I find myself being a little petty in certain situations as well. 

I find myself enjoying this show very much. Very well acted. Sterling Brown is the man.

When Kate listened to the girl on the plane (book/movie sequel idea?) saying how life is too short, I was expecting her to go back to Toby just to be able to have someone. Good on her for deciding otherwise. 

[SlackerInc]

"Now one with just the twins"?!?  I would make it crystal clear that there would be no more visits, no family relationship at all, unless they cut that shit out and anything like it.  They can think what they like inside their heads, but any such blatant favoritism (with a tinge of potential racism as well) is unacceptable. [Ah, good: that's ultimately what she concluded as well.]

Kate is absolutely right.  It's just not doable to try to lose weight (or keep weight off) while hanging out with a big eater.  Not for me, anyway, and I'd wager not for the vast majority of obese people.

I also don't think "avoiding triggers" is very doable on Thanksgiving, so I just eat my fill that one day per year.  That is not going to be the make-or-break, especially since turkey and stuffing are not temptations that follow us around the rest of the year.

I haven't seen it in many years, but I used to think "Rocky II" was actually the best Rocky.

That hot dog thing with the cheese and cracker crumbs is made entirely with things I normally don't touch with a 10 foot pole, but I'm really curious to know how it would taste.

 

Poor Randall.

 

Wow, Kate: gastric bypass surgery. Scary.

ETA: I just started reading the recap, and I for one actually like Olivia, and I thought the return to the house and kiss, with the "thank you for the pie", was very sweet.  Even if the advice she got from William could be called "Magical Negro", it was very eloquent and moving.

Edited November 27, 2016 by SlackerInc

[SueB]

13 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Great post JudyObscure .  

Kate admitted that he is everything she ever dreamed of. Not many people have someone like that.

He offered to diet when he is with her, he offered not to eat dessert, and so on. It wasnt enough, nothing seems to be enough for her.

2

I think Kate made a wise decision here.  This was not likely her first attempt at weight loss and she correctly indicated in the previous episode that if Toby would binge because he resented the restricted diet (and he complained constantly about it), then that would ultimately be a problem.

She can't, and isn't, asking Toby to change his mind about weight loss.  That's Toby's choice.  But Toby's declaration of "done now" shows that he really ISN'T ready to commit to weight loss.  And it WILL sabotage Kate, intentional or not.  It's like asking someone who is an alcoholic trying to recover to hang out with someone who thinks their alcoholism is under control so long as they only socially drink.  It's too much ENERGY to be the clean and sober one all the time.  And that's what Kate has to do. She has to stay on plan all the time.  

So I give her huge kudos for letting Toby go because she can't drag him into continuing weight loss and she is barely keeping it together to stay on plan.  Fighting that while trying to be supportive of Toby's choices is just too hard.  It was a self-preservation move, which I think was right.

Note: I'm not blaming Toby. I liked Toby, even if he could be a little manic pixie girl at times. 

[JenE4]

Randall's Thanksgiving exuberance was infectious, and, as my spirit animal, may have contributed to buoying me through my least stressful Thanksgiving preparations to date! Yet, not really sure how he'd be able to squeeze in a 3.4 mile hike and a Police Academy viewing/~90-mile track out to Philly in the middle of cooking. But if anyone can pull it off, it's Randall! But right when I don't think Randall could fill my heart with any more joy, he shatters it with his heart-wrenching discovery. The closest event at my Thanksgiving dinner was the revelation that my dad is too cheap to pay for a cell-phone data plan for my mom because she occasionally has access to wifi. Seriously, you guys, if you think Randall's reaction to betrayal was bad, you should have seen my mom.

[methodwriter85]

On 11/26/2016 at 8:26 AM, Tiger said:

B&S was grounded in season 1 too.  

I've joked that come season 4, Beth & Kevin will have an affair and it will inexplicably be revealed in a letter Jack wrote to be delivered to Kate on her 40th birthday.  

The third triplet showing up alive at some point with some sinister agenda wouldnt surprise me at all. NBC, like ABC, is notorious for interfering with shows with successful initial seasons.  

I won't feel entirely safe from the horrible "Kyle is alive" idea until we see a flashback with Rebecca and Jack cradling a stillborn baby or at the very least a little gravestone. I know for damn sure a soap would have salivated at the possibility, even if it meant retconning the kindly doctor into a horrible person. (Or they could say that there was a woman at the hospital who switched out an actual stillborn baby for Kyle. Or Kyle was just straight-up kidnapped and the hospital covered their asses by saying he died.) Nightime and daytime soaps have made me feel suspicious that they never did actually show the dead baby or even suggest that Rebecca and Jack had a funeral for Kyle, just that they were told he died and they instantly accepted that. Bonus points if Kyle is also played by Justin Hartley, as it's entirely possible for two in a triplet set to be identical twins with one fraternal triplet.

NBC is treating this like its Parenthood successor so hopefully they'll reign it on any horrible soap ideas like that. I only watched a couple of episodes of it but it sounded like the show stayed relatively grounded throughout its run.

Kyle is getting just a tad too attached to this actress. I wonder if he had a history of dating his co-stars. He doesn't seem to get that when the play is over, they're not going to have any reason to see each other again.

Edited November 28, 2016 by methodwriter85

[Clanstarling]

21 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I won't feel entirely safe from the horrible "Kevin is alive" idea until we see a flashback with Rebecca and Jack cradling a stillborn baby or at the very least a little gravestone.

Did you mean "Kyle" is alive? Kevin is one of the surviving triplets. I something upthread along these lines too, and maybe I've missed something (sometimes I only scan - because by the time I get to the forum there are so many posts).

Edited November 27, 2016 by Clanstarling

[SlackerInc]

On 11/23/2016 at 1:24 PM, marceline said:

I have a cousin like that. She treats her step grandchildren completely different from the biological ones. To the point where she only buys Christmas presents for some of them. It's shameful and hearing Randall say it was a common occurrence is the first time I've really questioned Rebecca and Jack's parenting.

Yeah, my wife's grandmother pulled this exact thing with her stepkids (my bio kids from my first marriage) and she just cut that grandma right off (a few months later grandma apologized and mended her ways).  I was really proud of her.

On 11/23/2016 at 3:20 PM, JudyObscure said:

I  had forgotten that!  Wow, I can't imagine not being welcome to drop in on my son, now and then.  Not that I wouldn't probably always call first, but still, that would hurt to think I couldn't follow an impulse on the way to the theatre.

Maybe I'm an oddball on this (I'd be curious to hear what other people think), but I hate when anyone stops by without calling first.  In fact, just hearing an unexpected doorbell or knock makes my heart race!  And I'm pretty sure I've never done it to anyone else.  I don't know about other people, but I don't spend evenings at home with my clothing and hair presentable for anyone but my wife and kids (who are used to me hanging out with my wild bedhead hair in holey shirts and boxers).

On 11/24/2016 at 10:05 AM, Tiger said:

Seriously, the saintification of drug addict and simultaneous villification of a good mom is just horrible.

I think she is being presented as having good and bad points.  What I found "just horrible" is how many people assumed the worst about William (that he was just pulling a scam) in the first episode or two.

On 11/25/2016 at 5:34 PM, saber5055 said:

We're doing a lot of making up own our story lines and show details here, and I hope the show proves us wrong on most counts. Me, I only know what this show has allowed me to see, I can't put my own "this happened offscreen" into the scenario. Mostly, I hate that Kate's weight has been her whole reason for being on this show. I hate she was fat shamed on the airplane, she was on the phone when she boarded, we saw her the entire time, and she DID NOT ask the snotty flight attendant for a belt extender. And that empty seat next to her was for Jerkface Toby who she dis-invited, thank god. She didn't buy two seats for her own fat ass, so snarky seat mate, look away.

When we saw her on the phone, she had already boarded as there were people visible behind her.  So we don't know if she said something when she first came on.  And I don't know how you can be sure the seat next to hers was Toby's.  You complain about others making up things they didn't see, but aren't you doing exactly that?

On 11/25/2016 at 5:55 PM, Eeksquire said:

I understand the traditions for narrative purposes, but... I've had some disastrous holidays - I'm guessing everyone who's been around a few decades has.  Even when things turn out in a way that you can remember them fondly or laugh about them after the fact, I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario where, had my family's Thanksgiving turned out in such a dramatic departure, that my parents (who are approximately the same ages as Jack and Rebecca were in the 80's, down to the obsession with Graceland!) would be like, "Hey, this Thanksgiving, we aren't going to your terrible parents because you told them off last year! And you know what would be fun? Let's eat HOT DOGS covered in melted Kraft singles and rolled in saltines like we did last year! And watch that same terrible movie again! And I'll wear that terrible hat and pretend to be Pilgrim Rick!"

I mean, were it my family, I'll grant you that every time hot dogs were consumed, there would be a snickering remark about where the appropriate "Pearson family condiments" were or every time Police Academy III came on TV, we'd remark upon how they shouldn't be airing it because that was a "Thanksgiving movie", or - running across the hat in the attic, we'd giggle about it, but there is NO WAY that the first year after that disaster would we all be hauling out all the accoutrements so we could recreate it.  To be so ingrained almost thirty years later doesn't track, unless Randall resurrected them as an adult or maybe after Jack's death.  

Wow, I see this so differently.  It was clear the family bonded over what they did, the kids had a great time once it became an "indoor picnic" adventure, and Randall even flat-out stated that he changed his mind and now felt that Thanksgiving was awesome.  And I've been married twice, and have seen extended families adopt traditions that were based on comical mishaps.  Clearly it would never happen in your family, and that's totally fine.  But you stuck your neck out way too far to insist that no one would react this way.

On 11/26/2016 at 0:01 PM, saber5055 said:

To posters who think Rebecca seems more subdued in present compared to past, I'll just say that someone who is 60 has WAY LESS energy and enthusiasm than someone who is 30. And that's a fact, Jack. Doesn't necessarily mean she is unhappy, she's just ... older. It will happen to you guys, too. Just wait a few decades.

Yeah, and as noted upthread she's actually 66.  An article I read said that Mandy has some kind of special physical coach who teaches her how to move like an older person.  Could be that she's overlearning from the coach, but that's better than just slapping on the makeup and waltzing around like a 30 year old underneath the makeup.

22 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Tiger said: "Maybe Im projecting, but I think Mandy is playing 2016 Rebecca as if her dreams died," Exactly what I was trying to say. Most people who are 60, more or less, are dealing with dead dreams. It comes with the territory of being "old." Like I said, it will happen to you youngsters in a few decades. Very few people end their lives satisfied.

This, however, does not track with the social science research, which finds there is a "U curve" in most people's happiness levels through their lifespan, and this is found to be true all over the world.  If you Google "happiness U-curve" you can find a lot about it, but here's a good basic rundown from a December 2014 Atlantic article:

Quote

 

That led them to international surveys of life satisfaction and the discovery, quite unexpected, of a recurrent pattern in countries around the world. “Whatever sets of data you looked at,” Blanchflower told me in a recent interview, “you got the same things”: life satisfaction would decline with age for the first couple of decades of adulthood, bottom out somewhere in the 40s or early 50s, and then, until the very last years, increase with age, often (though not always) reaching a higher level than in young adulthood. The pattern came to be known as the happiness U-curve.[...]

In a 2011 study, for example, the Stanford University psychologist Laura Carstensen and seven colleagues found that “the peak of emotional life may not occur until well into the seventh decade”—a finding that is “often met with disbelief in both the general population and the research community,” despite its strength. 

 

"Well into the seventh decade" is exactly where Rebecca is.  Not that we can necessarily expect the show's writers to know this.  As the Stanford psychologist notes, this is not widely understood and in fact it is generally assumed to be the opposite.

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

NBC is treating this like its Parenthood successor so hopefully they'll reign it on any horrible soap ideas like that. I only watched a couple of episodes of it but it sounded like the show stayed relatively grounded throughout its run.

Definitely.  There were a couple semi-soapy deviations, but it certainly never jumped the shark the way Brothers and Sisters did.  But with that show, there was a clear reason for what happened: the series creator battled with the network to keep the show true to his original vision, and he was shitcanned.  So after the first season, it wasn't really meaningfully the same show.  The ousted creator lamented afterward: "I cannot help but dream about what my version of Brothers & Sisters would have looked like...I was naive, totally naive."  So in the case of This is Us, as long as we don't hear about anything similar happening, we're probably safe.

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Not to beat a dead horse (I think I mostly argue with this in the Chrissy thread) but I feel like that's how most of us wives and mothers lose weight and maintain.  We regularly eat with men and kids that can eat anything or large amounts and it's ok.  Often we even prep their non-diet-safe food and serve it up and then don't partake.  

This sounds like my mother-in-law.  But she has never been more than 20 pounds overweight, I don't think.  I'm talking about people who have been morbidly obese (like Chrissy is, like I was) and lose the weight, then successfully keep it off for years.  The data show that this is a very rare achievement, so it just can't by definition apply to "most of us wives and mothers".

Edited November 27, 2016 by SlackerInc
misplaced modifier

[jeansheridan]

I am beginning to wonder why the show bothered with the drama of having Rebecca know/see William in the past.  Isn't it dramatic enough that they adopted an abandoned child and that child eventually finds his formerly deadbeat father who is dying of cancer?  Why the extra soapy curveball?  May not bode well for the future of the show.  

[Tiger]

Re: yup, the creator of the Jon Robin Baitz (sp) was fired after the first season and control was handed over to Ken Olin and Greg Berlanti, who were essentially puppets of Steve McPherson's office.  That man and his team loved to micromanage, even when it was apparant that their decisions were ruining hit shows.  

I believe at one point in the last or second to last season, the show spent an entire season building up this mystery about "narrow lake" and when all revealed it made no fucking sense with I believe Sally Field and/or Patricia Wettig speaking out and saying that.  

What concerns me about this show is the same thing: network execs for whatever reason cant seem to help themselves from meddling with their shows.  B&S was a legit hit in first season that retained its numbers even when monster Desperate Housewives aired reruns before it, yet the ABC execs couldnt help themselves.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

Maybe I'm an oddball on this (I'd be curious to hear what other people think), but I hate when anyone stops by without calling first.  In fact, just hearing an unexpected doorbell or knock makes my heart race!

Makes two of us. When I was newly single and living alone for the first time, my theme song was Men at Work's "Who can it be now?" - heard it each time I got an unexpected visitor.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Clanstarling

[possibilities]

2 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I hate when anyone stops by without calling first.

Even my closest friends call first to find out if it's a good time for company. If I don't answer the phone and say yes, they don't show up. I have informed everyone I know that I don't answer the door unless I'm expecting someone. I can't imagine a world in which it's not rude to show up unannounced. Do people have nothing going on in their lives so that they're just ready to drop whatever they're doing at any moment, for whoever happens to feel like dropping in?????

[mojito]

Quote

I see your point about Jack being too perfect, but I often wonder if we're really seeing objective reality. Or are we viewing events through the eyes of the Pearsons?

My thoughts, too. We see the story through varying points of view, and they may not all be accurate. One member of the immediate family is dead. Right now he appears to be the glue of the family. But over the years, the relationships within the family have fractured. This story is unfolding slowly, which I like. I hope it continues to do so. I like suspending my opinions and waiting for more information. 

I suspect--and hope--that the show is carefully manipulating the audience to form all the conclusions and opinions that I've been reading about here and that the audience is being steered in the wrong direction because of the faulty memories and points of view depicted in the scripts.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Makes two of us. When I was newly single and living alone for the first time, my theme song was Men at Work's "Who can it be now?" - heard it each time I got an unexpected visitor.

 

I'm okay with it if it's the "I got your mail" kind of drop off.  That's not a visit, it's a kindness.  There's no expectation of being invited in.  

When someone stops by for an actual unexpected visit, whatever plans I had are out the window at that moment.  I will stop and visit with this person.  Now if this is a surprise visit where the person knows that dropping by is going to be treated with delight, that's probably okay.  I'd put Grandma and Grandpa semi in this category.  They stopped by on their way to a show.  They are familiar enough with Randall and Beth that if they hadn't been home, they would have just moved on.  They also would have accepted, "We're right in the middle of something... come on in while I wrap that up." And then waited for the person to finish.  It's a wee bit rude but again, if they showed up and everyone was painting a room with all the gear out and in mid-process, they would have made the hello much shorter and tried to not be too disruptive of the work.  Calling ahead WOULD have been better but it's not out-right horrible IMO.

OTOH, Kevin's "Can I crash here." was pretty much over the top.  They're in their mid-30's and Randall has a family.  That's something to do when you are young and single going to a real buddy (or close family member) who is ALSO young and single.  In this case, I think Kevin desperately needed someone and subconsciously didn't want to be told no.  And he played it off like a casual "young guy" thing. He may even think that's what it was.  He still is emotionally less mature about many things.  And he's JUST coming to grips at this time with his relationship with Randall.  His "I wasn't a very good brother to you" and Randall's "There's still time." was his initial attempt at rapprochement.  He is clumsily continuing that on.   

[Empress1]

3 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Maybe I'm an oddball on this (I'd be curious to hear what other people think), but I hate when anyone stops by without calling first.  In fact, just hearing an unexpected doorbell or knock makes my heart race!  And I'm pretty sure I've never done it to anyone else.  I don't know about other people, but I don't spend evenings at home with my clothing and hair presentable for anyone but my wife and kids (who are used to me hanging out with my wild bedhead hair in holey shirts and boxers).

I don't like it either, and I don't do it - and I think I'm more mindful of it with my friends who have kids, because kids have routines I don't want to disrupt. I remember once my friend and I had brunch a block from our other friend's place and literally walked right by her front door on the way somewhere else, and even then we texted from outside (and as it turns out, they weren't home). I help my mom out with some of her chores and I have a key to her house, and even then I tell her when to expect me. I think it's rude to show up unannounced expecting the person to stop what they're doing and entertain you.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

This, however, does not track with the social science research, which finds there is a "U curve" in most people's happiness levels through their lifespan, and this is found to be true all over the world.  If you Google "happiness U-curve" you can find a lot about it, but here's a good basic rundown from a December 2014 Atlantic article:

I agree with a statement in the article that it's a mistake to generalize about life-course patterns.  Individuals vary a lot.

17 minutes ago, mojito said:

My thoughts, too. We see the story through varying points of view, and they may not all be accurate. One member of the immediate family is dead. Right now he appears to be the glue of the family. But over the years, the relationships within the family have fractured. This story is unfolding slowly, which I like. I hope it continues to do so. I like suspending my opinions and waiting for more information. 

I have observed families, who were relatively intact and content, splinter after the death of the matriarch or patriarch.  It happens.  Plus, happy families are harder to make into t.v. family drama.  Of course there was The Waltons, and probably others as I am not a huge viewer,  but as I often say about my own family, life is not a Hallmark card, and we ain't the Waltons. 

[OtterMommy]

My in-laws showed up early, so I finally got the chance to watch this last night. All in all, I thought it was a sweet Thanksgiving episode, although there still were some things that bugged me.

So, are we supposed to like Miguel or not?  Because him wanting the Pilgrim hat really, really made me hate him.  Why does he feel entitled to step into an established tradition that Kevin and Randall had that tied them to their father?  And, if he really felt so entitled, why did he choose Kevin's year to try and step in?  It's pretty obvious Kevin doesn't like him (I don't know why and I don't care...I just know that I'm now with Kevin on it, whatever it is) and Randall does, so why would he go to the person who would be antagonistic about it?  Ugh...I had no issue with Miguel before this episode, but now I just want him gone.

And Olivia.  Can she just...not be here.  I find her wholly unlikable and the fact that Kevin invited her to Thanksgiving and then she accepted after how she treated him when she made him crash the funeral is just unbelievable.  And her behavior at Randall's was abhorrent.  On one hand, I was cheering for William when he gave her a dressing down (sort of), but on the other--I wish he would have just let her wait for her uber and then leave.

What I did like--or at least what stuck with me:

I'm one of those people who liked Toby in the first episode, but my opinion of him has been falling since.  I don't know if Kate's decision to take a break is firm, but I hope it is.  Kate was very honest when they started dating and she was very honest with him in this episode.  And, really, his response was that basically that she was selfish (at least that is how I saw his reaction).  First off, Toby is the one who hasn't been honest.  Secondly, Kate isn't selfish on this--she's self-aware.  Losing weight is her priority and she's made no secret of it.  However, Toby is the one who has changed the terms, so to say, and she was right to realize that he is now keeping her from what she needs to do.  

I also loved the "old" Thanksgiving.  Jack completely won me over on this one!  I also really liked how they tied to the two Thanksgivings together.  My heart did ache for Randall--although I couldn't help wondering when he was in William's apartment where William's cat had gone!

Edited November 27, 2016 by OtterMommy
Typos

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 4:20 PM, JudyObscure said:

I  had forgotten that!  Wow, I can't imagine not being welcome to drop in on my son, now and then.  Not that I wouldn't probably always call first, but still, that would hurt to think I couldn't follow an impulse on the way to the theatre.

Maybe I'm an oddball on this (I'd be curious to hear what other people think), but I hate when anyone stops by without calling first.  In fact, just hearing an unexpected doorbell or knock makes my heart race!  And I'm pretty sure I've never done it to anyone else.  I don't know about other people, but I don't spend evenings at home with my clothing and hair presentable for anyone but my wife and kids (who are used to me hanging out with my wild bedhead hair in holey shirts and boxers).

I wear old clothes and no make-up around the house,  but I don't care if someone drops by and sees me that way.  If they're my friends I don't expect them to care about things like that and I'm always happy to stop  the chores and have a cup of coffee with them.  As I said, I don't drop in on people, myself, because I know it's considered rude, but I think if it does happen it's more rude to be unwelcoming and say something like Randall said.  Besides, mothers are not the same as friends, they've seen us in far  worse conditions than messy hair.  I can't think of a time when I dropped in on anyone, but I did once call a friend who lives in the next city to ask if I could stop and drop off a baby gift I had for her when I got to town.    She said,  "This isn't a good time," so I mailed the gift and never really had anything to do with her again.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 11/24/2016 at 5:32 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

We don't like Miguel because he married his dead best friend's wife and he looks like bad Photoshop

Maybe someone mentioned this above, I don't remember for sure, but......it takes two people to get married.  So while Miguel was marrying his dead best friend's wife, she was also marrying him.  So, why dislike Miguel for that?

40 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I wear old clothes and no make-up around the house,  but I don't care if someone drops by and sees me that way. 

I don't usually wear a bra when I'm home alone, and I DO care if someone drops by and sees me that way!  

[Crs97]

Miguel didn't  feel entitled. If he had felt entitled, he would've bought his own pilgrim hat and walked in the door wearing it and calling himself "Pilgrim Rick." Instead, he respectfully asked Kevin if he could be Pilgrim Rick and was understandably disappointed when Kevin rudely told him he would never be allowed  to be Pilgrim Rick. It was also why he was so delighted and surprised when Kevin changed his mind. 

 I saw comedian do a bit about  unexpected visitors.  He talked about how when he was growing up, the sound of a doorbell brought cheers.   Everyone gathered around to see who was there, and they always had a special Entenmann's box of treats for the new guest. Nowadays, people hit the ground when they hear a doorbell and start army crawling around the living room, trying to figure out who left a light on that suggested someone might be home. It was pretty funny and felt true-to-life.

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Maybe I'm an oddball on this (I'd be curious to hear what other people think), but I hate when anyone stops by without calling first.  In fact, just hearing an unexpected doorbell or knock makes my heart race!  And I'm pretty sure I've never done it to anyone else.  I don't know about other people, but I don't spend evenings at home with my clothing and hair presentable for anyone but my wife and kids (who are used to me hanging out with my wild bedhead hair in holey shirts and boxers).

If there is such a thing as the cult of Seinfeld, and I think there is, there's a whole bunch of us out there who relate to the show and despise the "pop in".  People around my age all joke about this.  I live next door to my brother, and I've never stopped by without major notice.  And I'm next door!  And it's my brother!

My friends joke around that I need 2 hours notice.  Joke all you want.  Because I'm glad that they give me that!

I hate hate hate the unexpected knock. I  had a traumatizing experience when I used to work nights and a man who lived below me tried to break into my apartment after he made ONE noise complaint about me.  (I wasn't trying to be inconsiderate; I really did work nights and never did anymore than watch TV. I didn't realize what was going on until I got the police involved.)  So yeah, if I'm not expecting you, my heart will RACE when you come by.

Also, I grew up in a house where my mother had a business in our house.  There were people ringing the doorbell and visiting all the damn day.  That's fine -- that's her business, literally - but Lord was it annoying when she tried to introduce me to clients and I hadn't even brushed my teeth yet.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Besides, mothers are not the same as friends, they've seen us in far  worse conditions than messy hair.

Mileage varies. I don't believe being their mother gives me any particular dispensation to casually drop by my grown kids' homes. How we/they look is beside the point for us (that's a consideration non-family), it is more that we might be interrupting private moments - such as lovemaking, fighting, etc. In our family it applies both ways, for the same reasons. We always give each other a heads up, via text at a minimum, before dropping in.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Clanstarling

[Enigma X]

Ninety percent of my unexpected visitors don't get the courtesy of an answer. I do not answer the door. I also do not try to keep quiet or pretend like I am not home.

[buckboard]

When Miguel and Rebecca dropped by unexpectedly, they were on the way to a play in NYC and weren't intending to stay long.  Just a "hi," we're passing by your neighborhood.

Kevin invited himself to stay for an unlimited time, even though he had a hotel room.  And then stayed on after he was asked to leave.

[Empress1]

17 minutes ago, buckboard said:

Kevin invited himself to stay for an unlimited time, even though he had a hotel room.  And then stayed on after he was asked to leave.

This, too, is shitty. You don't inform your family that you'll be moving in with them. Kevin is grown and can afford to find his own lodging, and he should do just that.

[JudyObscure]

I think maybe part of the disagreement on just  how bad "dropping in" is has to do with age.  If we grew up in a small town, before crime was as bad as it is now, it was just more common for neighbors and family to pop in.   Also people didn't have cell phones, so  they couldn't call from the car.  I don't own a cell phone to this day, so it still kind of startles me if a friend calls and says she's coming over and I think I have the time it takes from her house to mine to get my bra on and the kettle going, and then - whoops -  there she is in the drive way!