S01.E07: The Best Washing Machine in the World

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The dynamic of Randall and Kevin's rocky relationship is explained. Beth and William spend time together, which unexpectedly brings to light a secret William has been keeping. As Rebecca gets back to work for the first time in years, both she and Jack acknowledge that there is distance between them. Toby is caught straying from his diet regimen, throwing Kate into crisis.

Promo:

[JenE4]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Promo: Toby is caught straying from his diet regimen, throwing Kate into crisis.

Really? The previews make it look like Toby is cheating on Kate but the promo blurb gives it away that he's cheating on...his diet?! I guess he's hiding an ice cream sundae behind his door or something? Kate! What are you doing HERE?! [wipes chocolate off his face]

[Valny]

Young Kevin was quite the douche.  The kid they got to play him was a really good match. Nice casting.

[SimoneS]

Damn, this show is so damn heart breakingly good. Randall and Kevin's fight was hysterical. I couldn't stop laughing at how the people were staring at them, Seth Meyers wondering if he needs help, and then Randall saying "let's go. I am still black." Bwah!!!!

Beth and William were so adorable together high on pot brownies. Beth saying that Randall ruined her plan to live a life of solitude. I confess that my eyes got wet when he talked about how having a family made him feel sad about dying. Of course, high he slips up and mentions giving Rebecca the book of poetry. Susan Kelechi Watson looked beautiful tonight.

Jack and Rebecca looked so heartbroken over their kids fighting. Unfortunately, I think that Jack is having an affair with the secretary. She was flirting with Miguel as a misdirect. I hope I am wrong though.

Ah, Kate and Toby, so doomed. Having different dieting goals isn't a recipe for success. Preemptively, I will add that it doesn't make Toby evil.  Young Kate looks so much like adult Kate. Great casting.

Edited November 16, 2016 by SimoneS

[whatsatool]

What was Williams secret? I missed it.

[mtlchick]

So now this show makes me misty eyed over APPLIANCES.  (I'm either talking about their love for the washing machine or Beth/Randall's fridge.)

Toby's binging?  Saw it coming.  Eh.

"Hey Seth Meyers" didn't see that coming.  Their pent up rage led to a fight that only made them realize everyone was watching so they ran off. HA!

High as kites Beth and William for the win.  I was sort of expecting William to say that he wasn't dying but that slip up was close enough. 

[Jx223]

I thought that the scenes between Kevin and Randall tonight were interesting. Kevin really was lousy to Randall when they were younger.  All Randall wanted was to bond with him and for Kevin not to resent him but Kevin kept pushing away due to his jealously.

I think it was interesting to see how things finally boiled over for teen Kevin and Randall during their football game. Their animosity and hurt feelings spilled over towards adulthood and we saw it play out more on tonight's episode.(With the way they were trying to outrun each other and Randall refusing to let Kevin speak to Rebecca on the phone.) I'm glad they were a little bit open with each other at the end and spend some time together.

I'm also glad we learned more about Beth tonight (such as her dad also died of cancer and she came from a big family). I think that Beth is awesome. And it looks like she wants to lay it on Rebecca now that the truth about William has come out.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Jx223

[againstthewind]

Holy moly they nailed it with the teenager casting.

The storyline with Kevin and Randall was so tragic because both of them are both right and wrong.

i actually think Rebecca will have the affair with the guy from the band.

[ShadowFacts]

So they're going to tarnish Jack's halo.  As long as they don't do the same to Randall, I'm happy, I continue to love that guy- little kid, teenager and adult. 

Kevin "in any other family I'd be the star".   I see his angst but I don't feel it, he's just too much of a prick to Randall. 

[stonehaven]

Yep..it's official.....this is my favorite show since Person of Interest....

The Randall/Kevin dynamic was good..a nice touch having Kevin drink beer while Randall drank wine....and I loved that they kept the Manny going...with a black guy...I know a certain comedy blogger that will be happy about that...and Seth Meyers...was random....

Still, the little moments...and how objects in the house...still contain memories....I have bookcase that I see my late friend in whenever I get a book off the shelf....20 years later and the day we put it together feels like yesterday...

I am interested in Jack and his slight memory issues..early alzhemiers?

..and Beth and William rock......as much as Randall will weep for his father..Beth will really miss him....and the difference between grown up and kid brownies.....yep....love this show....

[WhosThatGirl]

This show.. 

What a heartbreaking episode. I'm team Jabecca and that's totally their ship name. I just coined it and I feel so sad watching them.

Edited November 16, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[SimoneS]

6 minutes ago, againstthewind said:

i actually think Rebecca will have the affair with the guy from the band.

I had not considered this, but I think that you are right.

[Ms Blue Jay]

16 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

"Hey Seth Meyers" didn't see that coming.  Their pent up rage led to a fight that only made them realize everyone was watching so they ran off. HA!

I think it was the police sirens.

15 minutes ago, Jx223 said:

I thought that the scenes between Kevin and Randall tonight were interesting. Kevin really was lousy to Randall when they were younger.  All Randall wanted was to bond with him and for Kevin not to resent him but Kevin kept pushing away due to his jealously.

It is so surreal, when people make observations on this show, and I am stunned to recognize my own family in these posts.  This show is crazy!  It's like therapy.  It's so deep.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Jx223]

19 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

 

 Unfortunately, I think that Jack is having an affair with the secretary. She was flirting with Miguel as a misdirect. I hope I am wrong though.

 

That is an interesting theory. Jack did seem pretty uncomfortable around the secretary. I had thought maybe he just was acting that way because he thought something inappropriate was going on between her and Miguel.

But maybe there is something going on between him and her. And she did drop the line about how his wife should have fixed his shirt for him and got touchy with him. Jack also seemed distant from Rebecca on tonight's episode. He forgot to kiss her and they forgot to eat dinner together.  Maybe something was going on or at least beginning to brew between him and the secretary.

12 minutes ago, againstthewind said:

 

i actually think Rebecca will have the affair with the guy from the band.

Maybe we might see a situation where one of them cheats and the other one gets emotionally close to someone. Maybe Rebecca will get closer emotionally to her band member. Especially if her and Jack grow apart/she fears he may have cheated. I could see that happening especially if the guy from the band reveals he's always had feelings for her.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Jx223

[CleoCaesar]

I wonder who will be the first to have an affair: Jack or Rebecca. I'm not spoiled, they just seem to be telegraphing it pretty hard.

Loved Beth and William getting high together.

The casting director needs a bonus for his or her work finding the teen versions of the adult characters. Spot-on.

Kate continues to be the least interesting character for me. Her one-note struggle with obesity is not that compelling to me, and any scene with Toby makes me want to mute it. Less of them. Kate at work as the assistant was more interesting than the weight stuff.

[Arcadiasw]

29 minutes ago, whatsatool said:

 What was Williams secret? I missed it.

William let it slip that he met Rebecca when Randall was a baby and he was the one to give Rebecca the book of poems she gave Randall.

"I'm still black." Favorite line of the night. LOL! Beth wondering if her daughter was floating is a close second.

I was thinking something was going on with Miguel and the secretary. I didn't consider Jack might be having an affair. Doubt it will be both but I guess it's possible Jack or Rebecca might've been unfaithful.

I like the montage of the different washers. That takes me back to growing up and seeing the ever changing appliances and furniture in my house.

Kevin was a real jerk to Randall as kids. I understood Kevin until he said, "In any other family, I'd be the star." That's too much ego for me. Amazing Randall tolerates him as an adult.

Next week looks good with Randall and family at the Thanksgiving table. I wonder if Kate will be there. I hope from the previews Toby wasn't suggesting he should be more important to Kate than her diet. If so, then he really doesn't get it and Kate should cut her losses.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Arcadiasw

[Amethyst]

The younger versions of Randall and Kevin were spot on.  Movements, vocal inflections.  Nice job!

Was there something special about the washing machine?  Besides the very end, I didn't see what it had to do with anything.

Poor young, Randall getting rejected by Kevin like that.  I can understand Kevin's resented, but that's something he needed to take up with his mother, not Randall.  Then again, after Kevin's childhood outburst at the pool, he may have figured there was no point in talking to Rebecca.  Also, was Randall keeping the phone from Kevin, or was Rebecca just avoiding Kevin?  I don't think Kate or Kevin has a good relationship with their mother.

Why is Kevin living with his brother?  Am I missing something?  Even with him off The Manny, he should have enough money to stay at a decent hotel.  Was that Morris Chestnut as the new Manny?

The slap fight with Kevin and Randall was hilariously pathetic.  It's the perfect sibling fight, no real physical damage.  And Randall's "We gotta go, because I'm still Black" line had me rolling.

So we see Jack and Rebecca growing distant.  I didn't think the scene at the game was a big deal (people interrupt all the time at events when they haven't seen you in a while) but you can see the split happening.  Pretty sure Rebecca will end up with the singer (hi, Sam Merlotte!) before she gets with Miguel.

Kate's plot kinda sucked tonight.  Toby might be blessed with a better metabolism, and no matter how you try to get over it, it sucks to see someone excel when you work twice as hard and get even less.  It's not Toby's fault, but no way in hell would I watch someone eat a lavish dessert while I just sat there.  

I like Toby, but I don't see him and Kate working in the long term anymore.  This diet issue might be the last straw.  It's not the change in diet, it's that Kate really needs to work on herself, and it's harder to do that if Toby is on such a different wavelength.  I just don't want her to regress into being miserable if Toby isn't around.  

Edited November 16, 2016 by Amethyst

[DearEvette]

"These are adult brownies.  These are work brownies."  Oh Beth.  Beth and Williams getting high was great!

Kevin ad Randall.  Oh god.  Kevin was such an asshole to his brother.  But you can totally see why and sympathise to some extent.  Still, what an asshole!  He can't take his anger out on Rebecca so he does it on Randall.  I am a lot more sympathetic toward Randall because Sterling K. Brown brings Randall's vulnerabilities so much sharper that Justin does Kevin's  And that 'replaced by another black man line" was rather fucked up.

The teenaged casting was superb.  Especially Kate.  The young actress looked so much like Crissy Metz!  And we get to see her eyeliner phase!

Edited November 16, 2016 by DearEvette

[nilyank]

I think Kevin was an even bigger star than I thought. He got the play despite bombing at the audition  because they thought he would pack the theater. And today everyone kept recognizing him including Seth Meyers.

Kate really needs to go visit her brothers.

[Arynm]

I can see Kevins issue this episode. He had one thing that he was good at and that his parents came to see only him and in his eyes Randall took that from him. Football was Kevins thing. From Randalls point of view he was trying to do something that Kevin liked so that maybe they would have something to do together.  I don't think Randall was trying to take the spotlight off Kevin by playing football.

That's my take on it anyway

[wonderwoman]

29 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

Kate continues to be the least interesting character for me. Her one-note struggle with obesity is not that compelling to me, and any scene with Toby makes me want to mute it. Less of them. Kate at work as the assistant was more interesting than the weight stuff.

It's one-note because since Kevin moved to the East Coast, the character exists in a vacuum. What works so beautifully about this show is how connected the characters and their history are. Easily fixed if Kate comes East. But, if she remains in LA, it's going to be difficult, if not impossible, to fully integrate her into the storytelling.  

[Court]

21 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

  Also, was Randall keeping the phone from Kevin, or was Rebecca just avoiding Kevin?  I don't think Kate or Kevin has a good relationship with their mother.

Why is Kevin living with his brother?  Am I missing something?  Even with him off The Manny, he should have enough money to stay at a decent hotel.  And why is he in LA, anyway?  Shouldn't he be staying in NY to rehearse the play?

I think he was keeping the phone from Kevin.

Randall lives in Jersey, I believe. Or close to NY at least. Kevin is there because the hotel is lonely. He wants to be around family.

[Jx223]

25 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

 Also, was Randall keeping the phone from Kevin, or was Rebecca just avoiding Kevin?  I don't think Kate or Kevin has a good relationship with their mother.

Why is Kevin living with his brother?  Am I missing something?  Even with him off The Manny, he should have enough money to stay at a decent hotel.  And why is he in LA, anyway?  Shouldn't he be staying in NY to rehearse the play?

Was that Morris Chestnut as the new Manny?

 

Randall was keeping the phone away from Kevin on purpose. Kevin kept asking to speak to Rebecca and Randall kept speaking over him when he was doing this. He didn't want Kevin to talk to Rebecca.

I think that Kevin and Randall are both currently living in New York. I wonder if Kevin just wanted to stay with Randall because maybe he doesn't know that many people in New York. He did look a little lost a few episodes ago when he was walking around the city and then met up with Olivia to go have drinks. And maybe he did want to bond with him some (even before they had their talk on tonight's episode). He has his issues with Randall but he does seem to like his nieces and living with him.

And that was Morris Chesnut. And I thought he looked really good,lol. 

[Amethyst]

Just now, Court said:

I think he was keeping the phone from Kevin.

Randall lives in Jersey, I believe. Or close to NY at least. Kevin is there because the hotel is lonely. He wants to be around family.

You quoted me just as I edited, lol.  I keep thinking Randall and his family live in LA, but duh, they were at Times Square for dinner, right?  One reason I love this board is because it helps me keep track of the facts.

I wonder if Kevin is persona-non-grata in Hollywood.  The creator of The Manny said Kevin would be ruined (he'd make sure of that) if Kevin left the show.  I figured he would stay with some friends, but you're right, he could be missing his family.  Namely his brother who he wouldn't claim, until now.

[memememe76]

I thought the brother dynamic was very well portrayed. I don't see one bring worse than the other. At the very least, I felt Adult Randall was a bigger jerk. Why not let Kevin speak to their mother? And his office doesn't know he is related to the Manny?

Kate is a Buffy fan!

[Arcadiasw]

29 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

Why is Kevin living with his brother?  Am I missing something?  Even with him off The Manny, he should have enough money to stay at a decent hotel.  

 

Kevin comes across the type that can't be alone. As for the play, maybe opening night is a while from now so Kevin has time to do other things like go to dinner with Randall and get all the attention at Randall's job.

 

47 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think it was the police sirens.

It is so surreal, when people make observations on this show, and I am stunned to recognize my own family in these posts.  This show is crazy!  It's like therapy.  It's so deep.

I agree. It shows no matter our economic or physical differences we're not that different from each other. It's one of the things I love about this show and forum. We all have similar experiences with these characters and ourselves. We can look at a character and say, "Oh, my brother's Kevin. My sister's Randall. My Mom's Beth or Damn, I'm Kevin and I didn't realize it." It can give us perspective of a family member we hadn't considered and that can go so far in bonding or strengthening our relationship with that family member.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

I thought the brother dynamic was very well portrayed. I don't see one bring worse than the other. At the very least, I felt Adult Randall was a bigger jerk. Why not let Kevin speak to their mother? And his office doesn't know he is related to the Manny?

Kate is a Buffy fan!

Yeah, I didn't like that Randall didn't let Kevin talk to Rebecca.  Although Kevin shouting, "IN ANY OTHER FAMILY, I WOULD BE THE STAR!" is kind of childish too. But I kind of get Kevin. I have since the pool. It's a strange dynamic, considering it seems like Kevin operates as the middle child in a way if that makes sense and while I know that that isn't their birth order, it's sort of how their characteristics work. For me, anyway. Kate is the only girl, so she gets doted on in a sense the way a baby in a family would, Randall seems to be the older quiet one who more or less did everything right, the good grades, being a good kid, in one episode I remember Rebecca telling him, "please promise me you will always be good" and Kevin has the characteristics of a middle child, the other boy, somewhat forgotten at times in the wake of the other two's issues. Something tells me we are going to see more with the football thing. That seems like it was Kevin's chance to shine and then Randall up and joins his schools football team and the spotlight is now shared with Randall for that too. I feel like more is going to happen with that. Maybe Kevin gets hurt but Randall can keep playing for his school or Randall does better and surpasses Kevin in it? 

[Cardie]

I may have mistaken which time period this was said in, but didn't Jack say he had forgotten to kiss Rebecca for the first time in 18 years the day of the big game? And weren't they married six years before having the triplets? Those kids should be 12 and yet they seem to be in high school. Color me confused.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Cardie

[ohjoy]

If we can just get Kate to move to NY/NJ, my life (while watching this show) will be complete. I reallywant to see all three siblings interacting as adults.

Sterling K. Brown and Justin Hartley both brought it tonight. It was so interesting and heartbreaking to see Kevin and Randall finally show some honesty about their relationship. The teen versions were so spot on as well. I felt bad for both of them; pitting jealousy and inferiority against a need to prove oneself for acceptance, on top of preexisting teen emotions and natural sibling rivalry, is a bad bad BAD combination. I loved the olive branch at the end with them both in the basement, watching The Manny.

Oh, Kate. There are some things you just can't do for people without hurting yourself, no matter how badly you want to. I know she said, "I'll just have to handle it," but if she can't (which apparently she can't), then... (I guess we'll find out next week.) Still, if her needing to be away from Toby and his lack of diet is a factor in her deciding to move closer to her brothers, then I'm all for it. (By the way, is teen Kate's actress related to Chrissy Metz? Because WOW does she ever look like adult Kate.)

As always, really looking forward to next week.

[breezy424]

I thought it was a really good episode.  I 'get' both Randall's and Kevin's issues.  I blame Rebecca, not them.  I also do not like Rebecca at all in all her timeline.  I don't know if it's the bad acting or the character just seems to lack depth.

I didn't take it that Jack was having an affair with the assistant.  I took it that Jack is hot and the assistant would like to get to know him better if you know what I mean.  Of course, I could be wrong.  I also took Jack's disconnect from Rebecca was because he has his own set of problems.

Loved William and Beth getting high and her response to her daughter.

Go away Toby so Kate can move east.

Next week looks like a doozie with Randall confronting his mom.  It will be interesting to see what that does to their relationship.

[ohjoy]

41 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah, I didn't like that Randall didn't let Kevin talk to Rebecca.  Although Kevin shouting, "IN ANY OTHER FAMILY, I WOULD BE THE STAR!" is kind of childish too. But I kind of get Kevin. I have since the pool. It's a strange dynamic, considering it seems like Kevin operates as the middle child in a way if that makes sense and while I know that that isn't their birth order, it's sort of how their characteristics work. For me, anyway. Kate is the only girl, so she gets doted on in a sense the way a baby in a family would, Randall seems to be the older quiet one who more or less did everything right, the good grades, being a good kid, in one episode I remember Rebecca telling him, "please promise me you will always be good" and Kevin has the characteristics of a middle child, the other boy, somewhat forgotten at times in the wake of the other two's issues.

Excellent birth order analysis; that's what I'm seeing too. Although, I've read that sometimes birth order characteristics flip (particularly between first and second children), so that what I'm going to chalk it up to here.

ETA: I've also read several birth order items discussing the particular conflict dynamic between first- and second-born sons -- how the second son tends to go the opposite way of the first one, in an attempt to establish his own place in the family and still potentially be considered an equal. It's hard to move past comparison when the siblings are similar, so one tends to deviate. (What? I studied birth order for a senior paper in college). It's part of the reason I've been so obsessed fascinated with Kevin and Randall's relationship; I've been wanting to see how true to life it is (you know, for a tv show.) Boy, it does not disappoint.

Edited November 16, 2016 by RandomMe

[buttersister]

Another round of kudos to the casting people. I realize as a viewer I'm bringing something to the party, but the kids and teens have been so impressive---even in their eyes.

Teen Kevin telling Randall he should get a life? Thanks for the inspiration, Kev, because Randall got himself a good one. (Beth and William were the best together.)

[Jx223]

11 minutes ago, Cardie said:

I may have mistaken which time period this was said in, but didn't Jack say he had forgotten to kill Rebecca for the first time in 18 years the day of the big game? And weren't they married six years before having the triplets? Those kids should be 12 and yet they seem to be in high school. Color me confused.

According to Dan Fogelman the kids are now 15. They were originally supposed to be 13 in this episode but he decided to change that. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Jx223

[Emily Thrace]

1 minute ago, RandomMe said:

Excellent birth order analysis; that's what I'm seeing too. Although, I've read that sometimes birth order characteristics flip (particularly between first and second children), so that what I'm going to chalk it up to here. 

Its also probably because with multiples they often establish their own pecking order that mimics birth order rather than falling into it the way most kids do.

I think Miguel is going to be the one who sleeps with the secretary not Jack. That's how he ends up divorced and ends up marrying Rebecca. I do wonder about Rebecca and her band mate though.

I kept thinking Jack was going to die rushing to get to the boys game. I am so not ready for the episode when he goes.

[breezy424]

I also got the impression that Miguel was the one to sleep with the assistant.  I think Jack had that impression as well.  Miguel is getting more and more 'interesting' each episode.

[WhosThatGirl]

Birth order intrigues me as well. Also.. I may be projecting Kevin as I'm a middle child myself but then again I disliked Kevin for most of the first couple of episodes and until the ending episode of The Pool and his speech to his parents about him drowning. It made sense. 

The more we see Miguel, the more I dislike him.  I wonder if we will meet his kids?  He had a toddler and a baby in the Super Bowl episode, so we know he has at least two-possibly more? 

[Spencer Hastings]

"Aw hell nah old man, you're not cancering your way out of this one."  Beth wins at life. 

Kevin being the way that he is makes so much sense.  He was pushed aside and ignored so he constantly needs attention.  He's not the "star" in his family so he's the star with everyone else.  Then there's Randall who always needs to be good and please everyone because he could never please Kevin.  And finally poor Kate, always stuck in the middle or to herself.  Even being in her own vacuum story make sense.  This show is great at showing us WHY. 

Next week is going to rip my heart out. 

[twoods]

Loved that we finally got some insight to the Kevin/Randall dynamic. They hinted at it in previous episodes, but those flashbacks were absolutely heartbreaking. Then, when they finally dukes it out in Times Square and Randall being tearful in the car about how he wanted Kevin's love and approval all these years....just tears from me. Same with William saying that he is sad about what he's going to leave behind. The acting on this show continues to be stellar.

Love Beth as always ("You're not cancering your way out of this one" was awesome). She loves her family so much, and you can feel her panic when she called Rebecca because she did not want to keep this from Randall.

I get that the weight storyline is big for Kate, but I don't want her to only be defined by that. I loved seeing her work- more of that, please. Plus she needs to have family interaction asap.

Edited November 16, 2016 by twoods

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That Was Us:

[biakbiak]

Did my family just buy really good washing machines because the only time anyone in my family got a new one was when they moved or remodeled. My grandmother recently handed down to a family member who just moved into a new place an extra washing machine that she had sitting in storage (she used to run a daycare) that still works fine and is a gazillion or at least 35 years old. 

[Bretley]

I am so, so disappointed that Kate's storyline has become entirely one-note revolving solely around her weight. The show runners think they are handling this topic sensitively, but they're not. A couple of episodes ago Kate and Toby were at a weight loss meeting, and one of the other attendees was tearfully speaking (at length) about how she has to dole out 10 crackers (chips, whatever it was) to herself lest she Hulk out and eat the entire package. Rather than conveying any empathy, she was portrayed as being pathetic and laughable. She was seen as a joke. Tonight both Toby and Kate binge out on junk food, cementing the misconception that obesity is simply a result of a lack of self-control and that all fat folks just sit around making endless terrible choices. There was no examination of the real trigger for that behavior. Argggh I need to step away from the internets.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Bretley

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think she was feeling hopeless (she did everything she was supposed to and only lost a pound, Toby was eating dessert in front of her, etc) and she fell off the diet wagon. We'll see if it was a momentary lapse or if she is giving up on dieting completely.

One of the things that I think this show excels at is portraying the individual relationships. Seeing Kevin and Randall, both as kids and as adults, was very real. It was so sad to see their mutual resentment and jealousy. Their fight on the sidewalk was hilarious and totally a sibling fight. It's not about physically harming the other person, just getting the upper hand. The argument they had right before was very realistic too. All those years of never fully expressing their anger at each other bubbled up, and of course it's your family who lash out with the most painful truths.

I think their argument ended up being a good thing because they were both finally able to get some clarity about themselves and each other. For most of their lives, each brother was so wrapped up in how he felt that he didn't consider why the other one was acting the way he was. Being confronted with the other person's version finally helped them understand the other person's point of view.

As someone said above, they are both right and they are both wrong, which is what makes the strain in their relationship so realistic and understandable. I have sat through more than my fair share of school plays and dance recitals to understand why Kevin was so hurt that Randall didn't watch his show. And I totally understand Randall always wanting Kevin's approval and friendship, so much so that he tried everything he could think of, only to have Kevin shut him out over and over.

I love how easily the writers and actors are able to show us the dynamics of the different relationships. Even in the very brief flashback of Kate giving Randall advice about joking around with Kevin, you could see that Kate and Randall had an easy relationship. I hope we get to see adult Kate and Randall interact soon.

Beth continues to be awesome. I love how fiercely she loves her family. It's obvious that she is very fond of William now, but as soon as he let the truth slip she was on him because her first loyalty is to Randall. I appreciate that William's concern was not destroying Randall's relationship with Rebecca.

[chocolatine]

Two shallow observations:

1. Rebecca was supposed to be in her mid-40s when the kids were in high school, but it was just the usual fresh-faced, 32-year-old Mandy Moore in an unattractive wig. Makeup department dropped the ball on that one.

2. Teenage Kate is slightly chubby, but it's nowhere close to the weight problem that adult Kate has. Makes me think she had a handle on her eating during the teenage years, but started spiraling out of control after Jack's death.

I loved all the Randall/Kevin present day scenes, especially Randall waving and saying "hi, Seth Myers" while being pinned to the ground by Kevin. I only wish Beth and William had saved them some "work brownies". BTW, Randall looked very surprised when he realized Beth and William were baked. I wonder if he knew about her stash.

Edited November 16, 2016 by chocolatine

[jacksgirl]

Kind of hate when adult siblings can't deal with childhood issues. One of 8 children and we hashtag birthday notices with siblings with #momlovedyoumost as a joke. Kevin is still so immature, deal with it buddy. You're a TV star with a show that was a hit for years. Love the teenage castings,  super job.

[Tiger]

Aside from Beth's immediate reaction to and action following William's reveal about the book of poetry, this episode didnt work for me.

Im particularly annoyed that they found kid and teen Kate actresses that could act and could conceivably grow up to look like Metz.  But kid and now teen Randall and aievin look nothing like Brown and Hartley, and teen Kevin's acting was mediocrecat hest while teen Randall's was just awful.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I loved all the Randall/Kevin present day scenes, especially Randall waving and saying "hi, Seth Myers" while being pinned to the ground by Kevin. I only wish Beth and William had saved them some "work brownies". BTW, Randall looked very surprised when he realized Beth and William were baked. I wonder if he knew about her stash.

I feel like their relationship is such that he would have known she used it with her father, maybe he didn't know she had some left, though.  One of the things I like about Beth is that she didn't clear it with him first, she knew William was suffering and she knew what might help and she dove in. 

 

2 hours ago, jacksgirl said:

Kind of hate when adult siblings can't deal with childhood issues. One of 8 children and we hashtag birthday notices with siblings with #momlovedyoumost as a joke. Kevin is still so immature, deal with it buddy. You're a TV star with a show that was a hit for years. Love the teenage castings,  super job.

Yes, amen.  Kevin's real problem is with his mother (and his outsize ego that we see goes way back -"I would have been the star"), yet Randall takes the brunt of it.  I don't like scapegoating; it may be a human impulse, but I don't like to see it, and that's how I'm viewing it and my sympathies don't run to Kevin all these years later.  I will say it was petty of Randall not to give the phone to Kevin to talk to Mom, he's guarding his relationship with her for sure.  Sad that it's about to blow up.

[Haleth]

I hope their fight will be a start to Kevin and Randall becoming friends.  I hope now that they've begun to talk about their resentments they can put away the baggage get to know each other as adults.  They both had a point, maybe they can find an understanding from an adult perspective.  (The teen actors nailed it.)

Loved Beth and William getting high together.  And giggling.  Until William spilled the beans.  Oops.

I agree Kate's storyline is the weakest.  She needs to decide to get far away from Toby and move to NY with her siblings.  There needs to be more to her than a weight issue.

Jack and the secretary?  Maybe.  I think she may be the reason for Miguel's divorce though.

[PRgal]

I don't buy Randall also playing football.  It could be that he played to please the family (being football fans and all), but somehow I just can't see it.  And he doesn't know who Mario Lopez is?  Unless in their universe, Saved by the Bell never existed (Kate would have watched the show, right?)...

[luna1122]

I didn't get the impression that Jack was cheating with the handsy secretary, but that maybe Miguel was (we also aren't sure that Miguel is still married at this point, I suppose). I hope not. I would really like for neither Rebecca or Jack to actually cheat, it'd be refreshing.

I loved the scenes between grownup Kevin and Randall, which went a long way to explaining both sides of their issues. Adult Kevin seems so much more charming than teen Kevin, who just seems like a bully, but bullies often are charming. I don't see Kevin as one now, tho, he's just someone who coasts on charm and glibness. The fight scene (hey, seth Meyers) was very funny. Justin Hartley and Sterling Brown are both just so beautiful and awesome.

I laughed out loud at  Kevin's 'wow, someone's high' as they walk into the house and see William and Beth. The weed brownies scenes were hilarious.

Teen Kate looked so very much like Chrissy Metz that it was remarkable, even tho teen Kate wasn't really at all overweight. I hope we're not supposed to think she is.  As some have already said, Kate's storyline continues to be the weakest, for me. Kate often comes off as unlikable. What Toby eats is honestly none of her business. He didn't have to explain his 'food mistress' to her, and her disappointment and anger over it seemed really controlling and selfish. I get it..it's hard to maintain a diet when someone is eating junk around you. But that's not up to her to police. And I had thought that her 'I cant' date a fat man' in that first episode was her way of being saucy, but she seemed serious about it tonite...'you said you'd lose the weight for me'. What? So she really won't date Toby if he stays overweight? She thinks he should lose weight for HER, instead of himself? That just all struck me as bizarre. I get her frustration over only losing a pound after trying so hard, believe me, I do. And Toby was trying, eating well in front of her, he's not trying to sabotage her. Tangentially, how is it possible that that gooey, smore's-y dessert looked so simultaneously yummy and repulsive? Just cuz Toby was eating it? I agree that I'd rather watch Kate at work than at love, and I'd really love to see weight not be her only focus.

[JudyObscure]

I'd like to see Rebecca take a little responsibility for the situation between the boys.  She created this mess, and she (and Jack to some extent) must have been unusually obtuse to not see that her blatant  favoritism was causing problems.  My mother favored our middle brother (we were boy. boy, girl) to a ridiculous degree, but although I always resented her a little bit for it, it didn't effect the close bond I had with that brother, because he was aware of it, embarrassed by it (though of course what kid doesn't bask in his mother's love) and even apologized when it was too grossly on display.  For Example:  Brother and I were doing dishes together as teens.  He started wetting the end of the dish towel and stinging my legs with it.  I started jumping around laughing and screaming.   My mother came in, saw the situation, including welts on my bare legs, and took me to task for "all that screaming." After she left he whispered, "I'm sorry."

Kate needs more lines and less bitch face.  It's starting to make me dislike her.  Of course men lose weight faster, and they get hungrier, too, so there's no reason for Kate to be so bitter and jealous that she can't work up a little enthusiasm for the man who is there to support her.  Toby's binge scene should have been written with a little humor.  Kate should have been both disappointed and amused by that scene and done a little teasing.  Not looked at him like he had been in bed with another woman. Everybody breaks now and then.  I've been on diets and out to lunch with friends who get dessert many times.  It's not like I didn't know chocolate torte existed until I saw it. 

I think the whole thing of Toby dieting to support Kate is mistaken.  Most people need a real, personal, "aha," moment to motivate themselves into a serious diet.  That moment was Kate's.  Toby just didn't have it and I don't think he should be expected to.  Kate is going to have to do this by herself, for herself.  Eat what she should for her plan, while letting other people eat what they want.  I've gone on diets that lasted over a year, while eating lunch out with my husband every day.  He gets a Double Whooper while I get the grilled chicken sandwich. He gets the goey stuff off the Chinese buffet, while I get the salmon and green beans.  I'm tired of her holding Toby responsible for her diet.  If she can't take him as he is she ought to just give him up and go glower at someone else.