S01.E08: Most Improved Player

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Michael has a private meeting with Eleanor. Meanwhile, Chidi, who has been harboring a secret, contemplates what to do.

[CofCinci]

Michael has a private meeting with Eleanor, who is put to the test. Also, Chidi harbors a secret and mulls over what to do.

Adam Scott was BORN to play Trevor.  Can't wait to see him again.

[Empress1]

17 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Adam Scott was BORN to play Trevor.  Can't wait to see him again.

That was a nice surprise! And I loved all the little Bad Place things: the heat increase in one-degree increments every time you thought about how warm it was, the thousands of stops for no reason, the hundred Hawaiian pizzas, etc. 

I was not expecting to meet the other Eleanor Shellstrop. There was something really ... I don't know, jarring, about seeing her in smudged prison clothes - like "Oh shit, someone has been actually getting tortured because of this mistake."

[swimmyfish]

This was such a good episode. Janet handing Michael the cactus made me laugh so hard, even though I knew that was definitely going to happen. Best joke of the episode, imo.

I was glad to see a flashback of Eleanor where she was hanging out with other terrible people. It makes a good point that doing something shirty to a shirty person is still a shirty thing to do. I also enjoyed this particular plot because, much as I love the Internet, I've always been really bothered by those  kind of viral stories. 

I did think our Eleanor got off the train awfully quick - that seemed like a pretty quick turnaround from Michael, although it is nice to see how much he values Chidi's input. Also, while  there is a lot to choose from, I think the worst thing about Trevor is that he knew he had the wrong Eleanor all along! I was also a little disappointed that the Dress Bitch wasn't part  of Trevor's entourage. 

On the downside, this is the first cliffhanger where I don't immediately want to know what happens next. I'm not hooked by the appearance of Other Eleanor; in fact, myou initial reaction was to worry what's happening with the real Jianyu. But, I am sure the writers will continue to exceed my expectations, no matter how many Eleanors we end up with.

[Arynm]

what happened after real Eleanor got of the train? My DVR cut off

[topanga]

I'm impressed every time Jason is able to stay in character as Jiyanu. I keep waiting for him to break out in song and dance. 

And Chidi showed genuine angst about their predicament. I loved that in the midst of it all, he was still impressed that Eleanor referenced Kant. 

And Tahani is friends with Taylor Swift, Kanye West, and Beyonce! How'd she manage that? 

Quote

what happened after real Eleanor got of the train? My DVR cut off

I'm not ignoring you. I'm just waiting for someone else to summarize the scene more succinctly than I can.

Edited October 28, 2016 by topanga

[Kromm]

Meh. I was a bit disappointed in this one.

I think there were a lot of ways they could have gone with this which were far more clever.

There were good character moments, but I really wanted some more meat in the episode following that big a reveal.

[kaygeeret]

And I loved the epi....

Janet, just equals golden.  I will be on the hunt for a cactus tomorrow!

And I continue to love that just when you think you 'know' where TPTB are going.....bamm....we are somewhere else.

Welcome new Eleanor and what the 'fork' are they going to do next?

[DrScottie]

2 hours ago, Arynm said:

what happened after real Eleanor got of the train? My DVR cut off

She's just said: "Hi . everyone. I'm Eleanor Shellstrop." Kristen Bell just had an astonished look on her face. That was it. 

[Chippings]

Part of what we're loving is the way they just keep tossing out the cool lines and don't slow down so you can go "Wha' ??!" and appreciate it.  My favorite tonight was Tahani reminiscing about her "very close friends Swift, Kanye, and of course my very BFF, Beyoncé" -- and then quickly how (something like) "My painfully shy friend, whose identity I have to closely protect, begged me to be with him on his TV show, "Anderson Cooper 360"..    And then just kept on going.    The writing pretty much every week is incredibly witty and so fast-paced.  (I'm reminded of the script of 'Shakespeare in Love', which is so fun of bon mots.  Kind of like that.)   

The train to the Other Place was excellently depressing - the Trevor guy was marvelous. 

But we marvel every week at how they completely surprise us with the new turn at 8:59:30 pm !  I need a T-shirt that says "I did not see that coming!"

Favorite new show of the year, no contest. 

[Dowel Jones]

So, Ben, the First Gentleman of Indiana thing just didn't work out, eh?  I did like that Michael and Trevor have an intercom connection.

What would happen if Michael asked Janet for a cactus?

[Marley]

I love Adam Scott so Trevor was cracking me up with everything. Even when he got off the train and kicked the chair. Lol!

I don't know how I feel about real Eleanor. Kind of a buzzkill she's been tortured for no reason.

Lol at vanity plates and watching the bachelor getting you sent to the bad place.

[bros402]

That episode was hilarious

[MadyGirl1987]

4 hours ago, swimmyfish said:

This was such a good episode. Janet handing Michael the cactus made me laugh so hard, even though I knew that was definitely going to happen. Best joke of the episode, imo.

That was hilarious! I was actually expecting the joke to end differently. I was thinking it was going to subvert expectations and actually have Janet have the real file.

[thuganomics85]

I already knew Adam Scott was going to be appearing a mysterious role, but him as Trevor, I'm guessing the architect of "The Bad Place", is perfect casting.  He's already nailed down the smug, douchebro persona, that I imagine would be the architect of that place, especially opposite of Michael and The Good Place.  I also liked all the glimpses we saw of what The Bad Place brings, which includes selfie sticks, Hawaiian pizza (ugh), viewings of The Bachelor, and a train that has frequent stops for no good reason.  Boo!

I thought they actually did a really good job with telling the flashbacks, in that my reactions were pretty much on pare with Michael, over how much worse and worse it became, the more Eleanor explained what happened.  After mainly seeing her just make lives miserable for normal people, it was refreshing seeing her with a group of friends who were just as bad, if not worse, and it brought out the worst in her as well.

Glad Janet is slowly getting better, but the cactus gag was making me laugh like a loon.  Michael/Ted Danson's exasperation each time it happened was perfect!

Not surprised that Tahani was all pissed off at Eleanor for this "betrayal", but I figured that on some levels, she actually didn't want her to go.  Equally not surprised that Jason would be a doofus, and cut himself on a cactus.  Classic Jason!

So, now the Other Eleanor has entered into the picture.  I have to think this will cause some complications, especially since she is the one who is actually suppose to be Chidi's soulmate, according to the so-called rules of The Good Place.  What is going to happen, now?!

[DrScottie]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

So, Ben, the First Gentleman of Indiana thing just didn't work out, eh? 

For those who don't know, it's from the ending of Parks and Recreation (Michael Schur's previous show) as he was Ben Wyatt. Congressman and husband of the main character, Leslie Knope, who became Governor of Indiana. Perhaps, First Gentleman of the United States given the Secret Service detail at Garry's funeral. They were a little ambiguous about that, but considering he's also been knighted (Winter is Coming for Sir Ben Lightstorm) I would presume that means Leslie was the President. 

25 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, now the Other Eleanor has entered into the picture.  I have to think this will cause some complications, especially since she is the one who is actually suppose to be Chidi's soulmate, according to the so-called rules of The Good Place.  What is going to happen, now?!

I don't know, but I can't wait to find out. Just as I was a fan of Parks and Recreation, I'm liking this too. 

[Luckylyn]

29 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

Also, there should be some kind of trial or whatever, because Trevor actually kept the real Eleanor on the train, even though our Eleanor had already entered it to go to the bad place. This shouldn't sit well with whatever higher power stands above Michael and Trevor.

Exactly. Trevor didn't say a word about having the correct Eleanor and was going to leave with both of them until Michael took our Eleanor off the train.  There has to be some rule against knowingly keeping the wrong person in the Bad Place to torture.

That ending was a really good cliffhanger and presents a tough dilemma for them.  Do they save the Eleanor they know and care about and let an innocent continue to be tortured or save the Eleanor that was supposed to be there and let the one they care about be tortured?  And Chidi in particular is in a tough position because he fought for our Eleanor to stay and now is presented with the Soul Mate he really wanted and could lose because of saving Eleanor.

[Big Mother]

I felt really bad for Eleanor. The good Place has changed her for the better... but it's too late. This episode surprisingly had a religious moral for me, as a believer in the Afterlife, that once you're done on this Earth, it's too late... Now is the time to collect Brownie points for the Afterlife...

On a less serious note, the episode was really good. I LOVE THIS SHOW. I cried when Chidi hugged her. Then chidi bursting into Michael's office to confess and try to get her back was so touching. I'm pretty sure he does have feelings for her. 

Aww the other eleanor shellstrop is cute.

Will Chidi get punished for murdering Janet?

Oh. and eleanor died at age 34?? that's so young.

[Empress1]

Michael and the swingers are the only ones in The Good Place who appear to be over 40. It's weird. I know TV doesn't feature the elderly, but this is a place for dead people. Nobody there died peacefully in their sleep in their 80s?

[Mabinogia]

I'm guessing maybe each neighborhood caters to a certain kind of dead person, either how they died or when they died, like if they died before their time or something. IDK. Don't care. This episode was AWESOME!!!! I cracked up every time Janet whipped out a cactus. I love Jason for wanting to take the one he pricked his finger on. I just love this cast soooo much.

I was all happy when Michael pulled Eleanor off the train...but then the "real" Eleanor was brought out. OMG! I really, really, REALLY hope it's a fake out, that there isn't a "good" Eleanor because that killed me, thinking this good person was being tortured all this time.

And who, exactly, made the mistake. Like, who is in charge of sending people where they "belong"? I want to know more about that. Because there is not just one mistake in that town but two! That seems like something someone might want to investigate.

[ChromaKelly]

I love this show! I can't believe it's advancing so fast either. I thought there would be more "filler", like everyday stuff going on in the Good Place.  I find myself wanting more at the end of each episode, and they all go so fast.
I'm hoping that the "torture" of The Bad Place is the type of stuff Adam Scott was describing, lukewarm soup and such. I would hate for the good Eleanor to have been really tortured.
I feel like Eleanor would have been fine going to the Bad Place with the other douches if she had gone there in the first off. Like, is it really that bad? Or is it just shitty people doing their shitty things and everything's just a little meh?
I couldn't help but laugh about the cactii every time.
Is the real Jianyu also in the Bad Place?

[Gregg247]

I loved this episode, but the absolute best, laugh-out-loud scene for me was when Michael was talking to Tahani in his office.  She was going on and on about something, and Michael said, "Thank you, Tahani.  You've been very helpful." and the lie detector immediately flashed red.  Ted Danson's expression was perfect.

It sounded like The Other Place isn't really The Bad Place.  Maybe it's for shallow, selfish individuals who aren't evil, just irritating.  The "Bachelor" viewing party Trevor was hosting sounded like a lot of fun!  Plus, the real Eleanor didn't look tortured, just kind of miserable with her situation.

[theatremouse]

I appreciated that this one and the glowey truth cube seemed to imply all of Tahani's improbable humblebrags are indeed true. I think that probably answers that, since when she made the Anderson Cooper 360 comment it went green. I know that only means that one comment were true, but storytellingwise, for that to be anything but confirmation that her ridiculous stories of all her famous friends are supposed to be taken as true would be crappy.

[Cowgirl]

I'm with Chippings -- I love how awesome lines just zip past and you're left thinking, "Wait a minute! Did they really just say that?!"  Besides Tahani's lines last night, Eleanor's telling Michael that getting hit by a boner pill truck sounds like a way she would go (there's more to that line, but I can't recall all of it) just cracked me up. 

I just wish that someone would tell Michael that Janet was murdered to protect him from eternal torture.  They kind of alluded to it tonight, but I want that to be taken into consideration as part of Eleanor's defense.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Anyone think the real Eleanor was probably corrupted by the bad place and turned into a horrible person? 

Adam Scott was good in the role. Though I will always prefer him as Ben. He must be happy to finally play "crazy" after having been the straight man on Parks for so long.

Very creative point, your first point.  It's a mirror to Our Eleanor becoming Good.

Adam Scott has played a lot of assholes in the past ;)  He's got great range.

[tominboston]

10 minutes ago, Cowgirl said:

I just wish that someone would tell Michael that Janet was murdered to protect him from eternal torture.  They kind of alluded to it tonight, but I want that to be taken into consideration as part of Eleanor's defense.

I thought it was more than alluded to. When Chidi rushed into Michael's office and confessed to "murdering" Janet, he said that Eleanor had confessed to being a mistake specifically to keep Michael from being sent to the Really Bad Place. My take was that this revelation from Chidi was why Michael then pulled Eleanor off the Downbound Train (to reference an old gospel song).

Among the many things I love about this show is how well Ted Danson does deadpan comedy. Wonderful stuff.

[azathoth]

I wonder if Trevor was the one who switched the Eleanors in the first place in order to screw up Michael's first neighborhood. He clearly didn't like him.

 

I loved the "Dress Bitch" t-shirt story. I don't care if it's morally wrong, I loved seeing that nasty woman getting her comeuppance.

[Cowgirl]

19 minutes ago, tominboston said:

I thought it was more than alluded to. When Chidi rushed into Michael's office and confessed to "murdering" Janet, he said that Eleanor had confessed to being a mistake specifically to keep Michael from being sent to the Really Bad Place. My take was that this revelation from Chidi was why Michael then pulled Eleanor off the Downbound Train (to reference an old gospel song).

Oh wow, I must have completely missed that. Thanks! (I have a concussion right now, so it doesn't surprise me. If I were able to, I'd probably be producing cacti instead of folders this week myself.)

[Mabinogia]

3 minutes ago, azathoth said:

I loved the "Dress Bitch" t-shirt story. I don't care if it's morally wrong, I loved seeing that nasty woman getting her comeuppance.

Yeah, guess I won't be headed to the good place because I loved it too. If she had just sued for the price of the dress that would have been 100% on Eleanor and I would have thought it was terrible, but bitch went and sued for emotional damage (I can't tell you how much I hate people who do that for something like this. Babies switched at birth, sure, botched surgery that leaves you scarred or crippled, of course, dress ruined at the drycleaner? You deserve to be hated and vilified on social media until your dying day).

I can't wait to see where this show goes next. It's just so exciting to me, not being able to predict what is coming. Never though Janet would get killed, didn't expect to see the other Eleanor this soon, or that Eleanor's secret would come out. Didn't call Jason being an imposter too. This show just surprises me in the most delightful ways.

[Traveller519]

Among the many things I love about this show is how well Ted Danson does deadpan comedy. Wonderful stuff.

If you can find it, possibly via HBO go, I highly recommend going and checking out Bored to Death. Ted Danson has the deadpan dialed up to 11, while also blending in the silly.

The breakneck pace continues. I'll be disappointed if both Eleanor's get to stay in the good place because Arizona Eleanor sacrifices herself for Good Eleanor, totally redeeming herself, only because it's way to predictable.

[cpcathy]

Bored to Death is so wonderful. I loved that show.

[Xenith22]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Michael and the swingers are the only ones in The Good Place who appear to be over 40. It's weird. I know TV doesn't feature the elderly, but this is a place for dead people. Nobody there died peacefully in their sleep in their 80s?

 

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I'm guessing maybe each neighborhood caters to a certain kind of dead person, either how they died or when they died, like if they died before their time or something.

While that could be true given the core cast we've been introduced to, I am also assuming that your age in the Good Place may not have to necessarily reflect the same as the age you died?  I mean it doesn't make an lot of sense that just because you lived a long life on Earth you would be stuck for all eternity in an super old rundown looking form when everything else about it is tailored to making you as happy as possible?

Edited October 28, 2016 by Xenith22

[tennisgurl]

This show just keeps dipping when I think its going to dive! Its a great ride!

Adam Scott is such a great asshole, even though I got used to him as lovable Ben on Parks and Rec. I loved him randomly kicking that chair when she came off the train for no reason what so ever. 

This show actually makes a really interesting case for a kind of purgatory in the afterlife, where people who were just ok, not awful but not good, to possibly reflect on their choices and try to become better, and eventually be judged after some more consideration. I feel like there is a really interesting theology paper in all of this. 

So The Bad Place seems to be mostly the opposite of The Good Place. While The Good Place is kind of like the real world, just nicer, the The Bad Place is kind of like the real world, but crappier. The Bad Place people here seem more annoying and stupid than evil or murderous or anything. So maybe Other Eleanor wasn't REALLY being tortured by three headed bears, she just had to deal with people who use selfie sticks and too many hashtags on their Instagram pictures? 

Oh no! I tweeted about being into one of the couples on Bachelor in Paradise this season! My friend got me into it! Its a guilty pleasure, I swear! A GUILTY PLEASURE!

[Wandering Snark]

Hah! I think asking Janet for a cactus would have brought untold catastrophe. I loved the amount and variety of cacti had on and around his desk by the end of the show. Janet's re-learning everything in the universe has been comedy gold.

I loved that Eleanor started the Dress Bitch story with "Okay, don't judge me on this..." and Michael interrupting that that was actually exactly what he was doing. That made me laugh. His exasperation at the whole situation combo'd with the semi-functional Janet was great stuff.

I immediately went to 'OMG that has to be Chidi's actual solemate then... SAVE HER!'

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, Xenith22 said:

Nobody there died peacefully in their sleep in their 80s?

They all went to the Good Buffett Place.

I'll bet that Trevor is playing the fast game and brought out a ringer from the Bad Place, just to say she was Eleanor and fool semi-good Eleanor into hopping on board the train.  What are they going to do to him, send him to the Bad Place?

[GaT]

5 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

And who, exactly, made the mistake. Like, who is in charge of sending people where they "belong"? I want to know more about that. Because there is not just one mistake in that town but two! That seems like something someone might want to investigate.

I don't think it was a mistake, I think this is all on purpose & that there is a possibility that there actually isn't "a bad place" It's all a test or a learning experience. It may be that this isn't the good place, it's a middle place where people can learn (including Michael) & become better people so that they can move on to the good place.

[AlleC17]

13 minutes ago, GaT said:

I don't think it was a mistake, I think this is all on purpose & that there is a possibility that there actually isn't "a bad place" It's all a test or a learning experience. It may be that this isn't the good place, it's a middle place where people can learn (including Michael) & become better people so that they can move on to the good place.

That's what I am thinking too, since Jason was also 'mistakenly' sent there.  I also don't think Tahani is all that good.  Altruistic people don't brag about how great they are, and who they know, but she constantly does both, and wasn't very nice to Eleanor in the first few episodes either.

[GaT]

3 minutes ago, AlleC17 said:

That's what I am thinking too, since Jason was also 'mistakenly' sent there.  I also don't think Tahani is all that good.  Altruistic people don't brag about how great they are, and who they know, but she constantly does both, and wasn't very nice to Eleanor in the first few episodes either.

Yes, I've been wondering about Tahani too, she does things to seem better than her sister, not because they're the right thing to do, and Chidi is very rigid about things, so he's no angel either.

[iMonrey]

"Have you ever watched The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, or The Bachelor in Paradise; or have you ever gone online and expressed an emotional investment in any of those shows? Have you ever owned a vanity plate?" OMG, I was cracking up at the questions to determine whether or not you're a bad person. It's like I wrote them myself. (Sorry, Bachelor fans.)

[CofCinci]

6 hours ago, Big Mother said:

On a less serious note, the episode was really good. I LOVE THIS SHOW. I cried when Chidi hugged her. Then chidi bursting into Michael's office to confess and try to get her back was so touching. I'm pretty sure he does have feelings for her. 

I don't see any chemistry between Kristen Bell and William Jackson Harper.  Nothing between Eleanor and Jianyu/Jason.  They need to bring on a love interest for Eleanor.

[crashdown]

The new Eleanor looks notably younger than our Eleanor.  I'm thinking that the mistake came about because of the lie our Eleanor routinely told about her age--that she was born in 1986 rather than 1982.  New Eleanor probably WAS born in 1986.

[iMonrey]

When Tahani was being coy by refusing to say outright that she thought Eleanor should be sent to the bad place, while simultaneously laying out the reasoning for sending here there, it was the first time I kind of didn't like her. She was just being so disingenuous, and maybe a little jealous or something. I know she sort of hugged her at the end when she was leaving but it still didn't feel right. A really "good" person would have wanted to forgive and forget.

And apparently Trevor was going to take the "good" Eleanor back with him anyway because the train was already moving when Michael stopped it.

[Autumn]

If our Eleanor has learned to be a better person has the other Eleanor learned to be a badder person?  It seems that Michael and Trevor are just middle managers with some autonomy but not total authority to act outside the "rules."

[theatremouse]

9 hours ago, Cowgirl said:

I just wish that someone would tell Michael that Janet was murdered to protect him from eternal torture.  They kind of alluded to it tonight, but I want that to be taken into consideration as part of Eleanor's defense.

 

9 hours ago, tominboston said:

I thought it was more than alluded to. When Chidi rushed into Michael's office and confessed to "murdering" Janet, he said that Eleanor had confessed to being a mistake specifically to keep Michael from being sent to the Really Bad Place. My take was that this revelation from Chidi was why Michael then pulled Eleanor off the Downbound Train (to reference an old gospel song).

It was more than that. Chidi didn't say Eleanor confessed to being a mistake to save Michael. He said he (Chidi) murdered Janet because as soon as Eleanor heard that Michael would be disintegrated, she immediately tried to find a way to stop it. IE implying, they knew turning off Janet would stop the train he'd called for himself and thus delay Michael's destruction (theoretically to buy them time to find another way out of it). That's what turned it around.

5 hours ago, CofCinci said:

I don't see any chemistry between Kristen Bell and William Jackson Harper.  Nothing between Eleanor and Jianyu/Jason.  They need to bring on a love interest for Eleanor.

I'm actually kind of loving that despite the concept of soulmates being a thing since the first episode, it's sort of been devoid of any straight-up "love interest" style plots.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

When Tahani was being coy by refusing to say outright that she thought Eleanor should be sent to the bad place, while simultaneously laying out the reasoning for sending here there, it was the first time I kind of didn't like her. She was just being so disingenuous, and maybe a little jealous or something. I know she sort of hugged her at the end when she was leaving but it still didn't feel right. A really "good" person would have wanted to forgive and forget.

I interpreted that scene differently, especially because the cube refrained from turning colors at all. I took it as Tahani really genuinely wasn't sure, and what was currently on her mind was indeed all the things that seemed to suggest Eleanor should be sent to the bad place, but that somehow, despite not being able to come up with reasons otherwise, she wasn't entirely convinced. She seemed to be weighing in her head if it were possible that any of the friendship might have been real and just the identity a lie vs should she assume everything Eleanor ever said or did was false. It also read to me like she just plain didn't want to be the decider, regardless of what she thought.

Edited October 29, 2016 by theatremouse

[arc]

2 hours ago, GaT said:

Yes, I've been wondering about Tahani too, she does things to seem better than her sister, not because they're the right thing to do, and Chidi is very rigid about things, so he's no angel either.

But from comments Mike Schur made weeks ago, it seems like the criteria is just total goodness points (not the official term) accumulated. I think he specifically said Tahani's charitable fundraising accounted for so many good points it significantly outweighed some of her bad aspects. Then again, considering when he said them, they could have been a misdirect.

[DeLurker]

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

I'm actually kind of loving that despite the concept of soulmates being a thing all along, it's sort of been devoid of any straight-up "love interest" style plots.

I'm for it - generally, tv and movie only recognize one form of true love and make it seem that unless the head over heels feelings don't last forever, it isn't "meant to be".

[RachelKM]

I would just like to point out that Good!Eleanor is apparently such a fan of clowns that she would be pleased to have clown portraits throughout her home. Judging.

[Kromm]

20 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

I would just like to point out that Good!Eleanor is apparently such a fan of clowns that she would be pleased to have clown portraits throughout her home. Judging.

Yes, even if she really IS what the show claims she is, this still follows the other idea that even the people who are SUPPOSED to be in The Good Place have lots wrong with them.

[DeLurker]

I forget how much I enjoy Adam Scott.  He plays an ass very well and I may like douche Adam Scott better than nice Adam Scott. 

I'm enjoying this show way too much.

[jjjmoss]

9 hours ago, crashdown said:

The new Eleanor looks notably younger than our Eleanor.  I'm thinking that the mistake came about because of the lie our Eleanor routinely told about her age--that she was born in 1986 rather than 1982.  New Eleanor probably WAS born in 1986.

Well the actual actress for New Eleanor was born in 1982...