S01.E03: The Confession

[thewhiteowl]

Quote

 

President Kirkman and his staff work to keep a high-level security breach of the White House a secret just as he’s about to give his first television interview. Meanwhile, the FBI continues to investigate the Capitol bombing, and Agent Hannah Wells starts to develop her own theories about who was really behind the attack.

 

 

[BlackberryJam]

Was this episode painful for anyone else? The new CoS gets to wander alone on a bridge. There is no curfew in the city. No patrols or security person to be found while the agent is in her car and there is a secret meeting on the bridge? And the president's son is allowed to go about willy-nilly. And schools are in session? 

This show is focusing so much on Kirkman, awkward guy who cares about people and can't bring together groups, that it's become tone deaf to the national tragedy that it's portraying.

Also, the two up for CoS, the woman, if she'd been with Kirkman since he started in public life and she looks about 30, he's only been in public service 10 years? Again. Come on. This is some mis-casting to have two pretty young people jockeying for position. 

Sorry if someone loved it..I wished I enjoyed it more.

[SeanC]

With, I think, one or two exceptions, every state provides for the governor to appoint replacement senators (in some cases, like Massachusetts, only until a new election is held immediately), so the Senate would be functionally reconstituted almost immediately.  So I'm not sure why people are acting like Madsen's character is a one-woman legislature (in fact, neither chamber could constitutionally convene to do anything without a quorum).

[shapeshifter]

It was a bit painful for me too, @BlackberryJam, but for different reasons. It seems like it's just going to be Keefer Southerland lurching from one crisis to another — kind of one-note plotting, and not a good way to escape from the daily cares of this life, which I expect on some level for a show. Somehow Madam Secretary does this better, IMO.

[Frozendiva]

I wondered where all the world leaders were for the previous President's funeral. It seemed small. There would be some sort of major protocol and decorum happening as well as a particular order to the actual service - motorcade, etc. No switching. Lots more reporters, lots of social media. Even with a curfew and other security issues.

Kirkman is awkward. He's not a career politician. The decent, honest guy is a hard sell in Washington.

The Chief of Staff probably would have a security detail somewhere along the river path.

Too easy to pin it on an outside group, without actually having any real facts to do so. Too easy in the age of social media and YouTube.

[memememe76]

Craig Manning is on this show! That was the most interesting scene for me. 

[CleoCaesar]

Quote

Was this episode painful for anyone else? The new CoS gets to wander alone on a bridge. There is no curfew in the city. No patrols or security person to be found while the agent is in her car and there is a secret meeting on the bridge? And the president's son is allowed to go about willy-nilly. And schools are in session? 

Frankly the depiction of the impact of the attack is shockingly blasé and hum-drum. In reality, this would be the biggest, most impactful act of terrorism in modern history. It would cause the entire world to lurch. The global economy would be in a panic. PEOPLE would be in a panic. 9/11 would seem like a minor inconvenience by comparison. The president and his close staff would be in a BUNKER. The words "martial law" would at least be on people's lips. It would be, in short, pandemonium.

On this show though? Meh. Yeah it's sad, but whatev. Life goes on. President is just wandering about the White House, security is lax, the First Kids can come and go as they please. No news of international response. No news of the global stock markets. The entire U.S. government was slaughtered in one night and we have to sit through "crises" like Seth being briefly racially profiled and who gets to be Chief of Staff.

Are you kidding me?

Edited October 6, 2016 by CleoCaesar

[Autumn]

I want to like the show.  Some are good and other parts make me roll my eyes.

Every cabinet member has a deputy who can serve in acting capacity for months or even years so no need to bring in a bunch of people who have no knowledge of the various  agency's workings until things are more stable.

The president would be talking to world leaders after that tape was leaked and not dealing with some high school level staff drama.

The drug dealing son drama is so stupid  Ship him off to military school or something.  He's taking up space that better characters can take.

[yogi2014L]

8 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

Frankly the depiction of the impact of the attack is shockingly blasé and hum-drum. In reality, this would be the biggest, most impactful act of terrorism in modern history. It would cause the entire world to lurch. The global economy would be in a panic. PEOPLE would be in a panic. 9/11 would seem like a minor inconvenience by comparison. The president and his close staff would be in a BUNKER. The words "martial law" would at least be on people's lips. It would be, in short, pandemonium.

On this show though? Meh. Yeah it's sad, but whatev. Life goes on. President is just wandering about the White House, security is lax, the First Kids can come and go as they please. No news of international response. No news of the global stock markets. The entire U.S. government was slaughtered in one night and we have to sit through "crises" like Seth being briefly racially profiled and who gets to be Chief of Staff.

Are you kidding me?

Yeah I wish they would have focused a little on the aftermath socially.  I would imagine their target audience are people who clearly remember 9-11 and how it changed EVERYTHING, so the shows 'meh' reaction isn't really working lol.

That being said, I am enjoying it.

Edited October 6, 2016 by yogi2014L

[DEM]

The discord about whether Kirkman was fired and therefore illegitimate made little sense.  If, in fact, he had been fired and were no longer the HUD Secretary, then he could not have been the Designated Survivor.

This show is compelling for me only on the strength of Kiefer Sutherland.  It needs much smarter writers.

[Amy Beth]

What the hell would they have done if the survivor they found in the Capitol wreckage had been the Secretary of Agriculture?

Oops! We swore in the wrong guy!

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

On this show though? Meh. Yeah it's sad, but whatev. Life goes on. President is just wandering about the White House, security is lax, the First Kids can come and go as they please. No news of international response. No news of the global stock markets. The entire U.S. government was slaughtered in one night and we have to sit through "crises" like Seth being briefly racially profiled and who gets to be Chief of Staff.

 

Exactly. This is demonstrated when the hack comes in to the White House at the beginning of the episode. Not one person was prepared for it? Really? And only Mike is running toward the Oval Office to protect the President while everyone else is staring at the wall, going: "What's going on? What do we do?". I would expect a lot more going on in the world I really would. But the tone seems so lax and the dramatic moments are only there to be dramatic and to give Kiefer Sutherland speeches and worried "I'm not prepared for this" faces. 

However, I still am enjoying the show. 

Emily was quite confident that she would be COS. It's nice to see a confident woman, though maybe a bit more humility would have been fine. She loses the main job but gets one that's pretty much almost the exact same. And aforementioned boyfriend who will ultimately lose to Aaron for Emily's heart. We haven't met the boyfriend, right? 

The First Kids at least have minimal screen time. Even the drug dealing son was only in the episode for all of five minutes.

Craig Manning! Hello! 

Colin Woodell as Ex First Son! Hello! 

I'm not surprised Congresswoman Kimbell will be going for the Presidency in two and  half years. I imagine she'll be popping in and she'll be running for President when the time comes. Whether that's in the 3rd/4th season, or whether they speed the campaign up somehow to the possible second season, who knows. 

So, Hannah's boyfriend or whatever is listed as dead. But is he really dead? Also, Bombing Survivor wasn't actually in the area where the bomb hit. Ok, then. 

[shapeshifter]

The one reason I'll keep watching for now is Ashley Zukerman as Peter Macleish, the senator they pulled from the rubble. He was great in Manhattan, which I was sorry about being canceled.

Edited October 6, 2016 by shapeshifter

[BlackberryJam]

Oh yeah, if bombing survivor was not actually there when bombing happened, how did he manage to smuggle himself into the cordoned off, being searched rubble and bury himself all nice?

YES, where are all the under secretaries and deputies that would not have been in the capital building? So much of this is a big no.

[oakville]

15 minutes ago, DEM said:

The discord about whether Kirkman was fired and therefore illegitimate made little sense.  If, in fact, he had been fired and were no longer the HUD Secretary, then he could not have been the Designated Survivor.

This show is compelling for me only on the strength of Kiefer Sutherland.  It needs much smarter writers.

Good point. I think the media spin would be that he would shortly be demoted to Ambassador to ICAO, so the President didn't really have much faith with him.

[vibeology]

10 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Oh yeah, if bombing survivor was not actually there when bombing happened, how did he manage to smuggle himself into the cordoned off, being searched rubble and bury himself all nice?

The window of time being investigated is very short (he was still in the room when the TV feed cuts out) so he must have been right outside of the chamber when the explosion happened. You can only go so far in 30 seconds. Right outside the doors would still mean you'd be a part of the blast. If the show tries to tell me that he wasn't a part of the explosion altogether that will be a bridge too far. 

I agree with everyone who feels the show is ignoring so much real world stuff. It's been two or three days? There should be more focus on what's going on in the country and less on which pretty person gets their dream job. 

[shapeshifter]

Just now, vibeology said:

The window of time being investigated is very short (he was still in the room when the TV feed cuts out) so he must have been right outside of the chamber when the explosion happened. You can only go so far in 30 seconds. Right outside the doors would still mean you'd be a part of the blast. If the show tries to tell me that he wasn't a part of the explosion altogether that will be a bridge too far....

Wasn't it just 6 seconds between the picture of him seated and the picture of the empty seat? If this was real life, he might have just needed to use the restroom, or maybe had a message to meet his lover.

[Amy Beth]

2 minutes ago, vibeology said:

The window of time being investigated is very short (he was still in the room when the TV feed cuts out) so he must have been right outside of the chamber when the explosion happened. You can only go so far in 30 seconds. Right outside the doors would still mean you'd be a part of the blast. If the show tries to tell me that he wasn't a part of the explosion altogether that will be a bridge too far. 

I agree with everyone who feels the show is ignoring so much real world stuff. It's been two or three days? There should be more focus on what's going on in the country and less on which pretty person gets their dream job. 

If I understood correctly, they said the 2 photos were taken 6 seconds apart. If someone got up in the middle of the President's speech wouldn't everyone else in his row be looking in his direction, trying to figure out where he was going?  The second photo made it appear as if the guy disappeared into thin air. 

[Happy Harpy]

Well, I liked this one quite very much.

Finally! FBI Boss spoke (I kind of cheered, I was afraid he wouldn't). There is actual progress in the investigation. I have the feeling with this episode that the pace of the show (investigation especially) is going to pick up a bit.

I liked the parallel between Hannah and Aaron, who both went around the orders and got results (and it was nice to see a bit of Badass Maggie Q). I don't think that Hannah's boyfriend could be confirmed dead without a body or DNA evidence, although of course it could have been planted for further plot purpose. But at this point I don't think so.
 

38 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Wasn't it just 6 seconds between the picture of him seated and the picture of the empty seat? If this was real life, he might have just needed to use the restroom, or maybe had a message to meet his lover.

Yes, but he said to Hannah that he was in the room when the bomb exploded, didn't he? So he lied. Suspect.

I really love Kimble as a frenemy for Kirkman. She has her own agenda but I believe she can be decent. Finally he was a bit pissy and he saw through someone's game, after being blindsided all the time. And I think he made a good decision by choosing Aaron because he needs to get political now. Wise-up, President Kiefer!

Emily gunning for Aaron's place was a nice surprise, it breaks the cliché of the Idealist. Her loyalty is first and foremost to Kirkman so I don't see her trying to undermine Aaron at any cost, including dumb and damaging moves. And this would have annoyed me. I like the Emily/Aaron/Seth team. And I liked the Aaron/Emily scenes, too. But I prefer the White House personnel and getting to know them over the First Family's woes.

I could have done without both First Sons subplots. At least Leo is only seventeen so he has excuses for being an annoying twit, I couldn't care less about the other's Daddy issues. Don't get me wrong, it was nice that Kirkman managed to rally someone and I like that he's a decent guy, but it was bordering the Power of Love at this point. Also, nice job not telling your President husband that your son is selling drugs, Alex. It isn't something that his political adversaries can use against him, noooo.  I guess that Aaron already has it in his file.

Writers, I got it. Tom Kirkman is the underdog. But do you have to literally make him the dog everyone likes to kick in every episode? I hope that we are now done with the disrespect and "you're not my President" bullshit. Or at least, with Kirkman taking it.  Yes, General Schmuck seems to know the limit now but I definitely need more wins. Like big, Hell Yeah-level wins.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[Netfoot]

So, this guy leaks the top secret video, thereby forcing the US into a war with (possibly) the wrong people, and when he gets found out, he tenders his resignation?  I was expecting KS to tell him the resignation was unnecessary, because he's be spending the next 30 years in Leavenworth.  But no, the president makes him Chief of Staff !!?!

[Bobbin]

The 6 seconds between the photos of Sen. MacLeish were within the 34 seconds between cutting the national broadcast feed and the explosion. He may have been trying to get clear and didn't entirely make it. Or since this is likely internal terrorism, he may have pushed the button. Or planted the dummy bomb.

This is TV, not a blockbuster theatrical movie. They probably don't have the budget or resources to depict nationwide shock and panic. Still, they could do a better job of implying widespread chaos.

If the President had formally fired Tom, he wouldn't have been the DS. Rumors that he was going to fire him are irrelevant. But seriously, folks, declaring that the President obviously wanted him gone? Tom is more savvy than that. TMI, Tom.

Aaron said early on that Emily couldn't be CoS because she didn't have the security clearance. So how does she now have "full access"? Btw, Chief Advisor might have the same access as Chief of Staff, but it doesn't have any authority. That's why Emily wasn't thrilled at the move up.

I can only imagine that the reason the city isn't in lockdown is because of Kirkman's determination to present an image of normalcy. So astute and insightful in some ways, so naive in others.

The President was at his son's recital, incognito. Just like ghost Grandma in "Sixth Sense." Now, let's see some humility from Leo.

[Muffyn]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wasn't it just 6 seconds between the picture of him seated and the picture of the empty seat? If this was real life, he might have just needed to use the restroom, or maybe had a message to meet his lover.

My initial thought was the poor guy had a sudden, uncontrollable urge that required an  immediate trip to the bathroom during a highly scrutinized speech.  And now the world will know his bowel problems are the reason he survived.  

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

So, this guy leaks the top secret video, thereby forcing the US into a war with (possibly) the wrong people, and when he gets found out, he tenders his resignation?  I was expecting KS to tell him the resignation was unnecessary, because he's be spending the next 30 years in Leavenworth.  But no, the president makes him Chief of Staff !!?!

Based on this logic I assume dealer son will be appointed head of the DEA. 

[zxy556575]

The congressman survives a bomb blast and building collapsing on top of him but looks and sounds just dandy in the hospital? I guess he twisted an ankle.

The insubordinate, lying chief of staff being promoted made me hack up a hairball. "My greatest weakness is that I am too bold." Blow me, dude.

I'm also supposed to believe that the former president spent AN HOUR of cabinet time talking about his son's piano recital or some shit? I'd like Kirkman better if I thought he made that up to appease the idiot son, but I'm afraid not. That entire storyline was brain-crushingly hokey: "My father didn't trust you!" Yeah well, presidents don't get to choose their successors, son. I'm thinking the majority of them disliked their replacements.

I wanted to like this show but am not going to be able to hang in much longer at this rate. Complete malarkey.

Edited October 6, 2016 by lordonia

[paigow]

4 hours ago, lordonia said:

I'm also supposed to believe that the former president spent AN HOUR of cabinet time talking about his son's piano recital or some shit?

I was hoping that Kiefer was redeploying the Michigan Bluff....

And the terrorist leader is actually a blend of Bill Paxton circa "True Lies"& Melania Trump

Edited October 6, 2016 by paigow

[cambridgeguy]

Chief of Staff isn't necessarily better than Senior Adviser or some other nebulous position.  Sure, if you're Leo McGarry you essentially become the co-president, but in the Obama and Bush administrations the people with the closest ties to the president (Rove, Jarrett, Axelrod, Plouffe) have been given the senior adviser title. 

[TaraS1]

I didn't love this one as much as the first two, but I'm still in.  I just wish the writing was a lot tighter and smarter.

And I'm happy to go along with all the stuff they're doing that would never happen in a million years in real life, but the lights going out, the network going down and no one from the Secret Service bursting into the Oval Office immediately to protect the President?  Come on now, show.

Also, more Maggie Q and less of the First Family, please.

Edited October 6, 2016 by TaraS1

[mwell345]

12 minutes ago, TaraS1 said:

I didn't love this one as much as the first two, but I'm still in.  I just wish the writing was a lot tighter and smarter.

And I'm happy to go along with all the stuff they're doing that would never happen in a million years in real life, but the lights going out, the network going down and no one from the Secret Service bursting into the Oval Office immediately to protect the President?  Come on now, show.

Also, more Maggie Q and less of the First Family, please.

I still like it too, but I am a big Keifer Sutherland fan. 

I kept thinking last night how I hope ABC doesn't screw this show up. (I'm looking at you, Quantico).

[Primetimer]

Pressure mounts for Tom to make a move, thanks to moves made by others.

View the full article

[kili]

Quote

Yes, but he said to Hannah that he was in the room when the bomb exploded, didn't he? So he lied. Suspect.

He said he was listening to the speech and then everything went dark. Given he was found under a pile of rubble, chances are he had a serious head injury. It's not uncommon for people who have head trauma to lose a bit of time before the accident even just from repression. 

If he is part of the conspiracy, he took a mighty risk being that close to the blast. Even in a controlled demolition, there are a lot of variables and nobody would recommend being in the building. I just don't see how he gets out of the entire building in 34 seconds (there are guards everywhere in Washington, somebody else must be outside the blast radius who would have seen him scurrying) and the site is now on lockdown so it's not like he should be able to sneak in and bury himself in rubble. He's probably guilty (why else is he there?), but the show better not hand wave away all the risks or planning it took to get him under that rubble (and still alive).

Leo is old enough that his mother should respect his right to privacy. Either tell him to unpack or leave his stuff alone. If you suspect he is dealing drugs, sure, go through his things. Absent that, they really shouldn't be going through his stuff with his little sister. And maybe teach your daughter not to go digging through his stuff and that too will protect her from finding pills (or other stuff an older teenage boy might have in his possession that you might not want her to see at age 8). 

Kimble had that speech in her pocket? Did she write it in hopes she would suddenly be added to the program?

Everything I learned about search laws I learned from Law and Order. The lady with the camera phone is not a suspect, she is a victim. Lenny and Logan were forever searching the "vic's" stuff with the excuse that presumably the victim would want you to find their killer. In court, lawyers could successfully get the pictures hacked from her phone thrown out in a case against her. I don't think they would be excluded in a case against others.

Tech guy - I'm going to report you for asking me to hack the phone and then hack it anyway. Odd.

[merylinkid]

Well at least we know the First Daughter's age -- 8.

And the desire for a family dinner is enough for 1st Drug Dealer to come home.   Yes, he has no excuse.   He is CHOOSING to deal drugs because he wants to.   Period.   Even when his dad was HUD secretary (hello, affordable housing, Section 8 issues like drug dealing) it was going to hurt his dad's job.   Now as president, oh well, I'm just going to be mopey and live my life MY way because I want to.  

Quelle surprise, Hannah's boyfriend was married.    

Quelle surprise, President Kiefer is honest and winds up stabbed in the back.   Clearly a requirement to be a 1st son on this show is to be a spoiled self-centered brat regardless of age.   "you're not my president."   Who the fuck asked you kid?    

I think we see more of the panic next week.   I think this are using Michigan as kinda of a microcosm of what is happening in the rest of the country.   It should be presumed it happening elsewhere even if we only see Michigan.  

[Raja]

35 minutes ago, kili said:

He said he was listening to the speech and then everything went dark. Given he was found under a pile of rubble, chances are he had a serious head injury. It's not uncommon for people who have head trauma to lose a bit of time before the accident even just from repression. 

If he is part of the conspiracy, he took a mighty risk being that close to the blast. Even in a controlled demolition, there are a lot of variables and nobody would recommend being in the building. I just don't see how he gets out of the entire building in 34 seconds (there are guards everywhere in Washington, somebody else must be outside the blast radius who would have seen him scurrying) and the site is now on lockdown so it's not like he should be able to sneak in and bury himself in rubble. He's probably guilty (why else is he there?), but the show better not hand wave away all the risks or planning it took to get him under that rubble (and still alive).

Leo is old enough that his mother should respect his right to privacy. Either tell him to unpack or leave his stuff alone. If you suspect he is dealing drugs, sure, go through his things. Absent that, they really shouldn't be going through his stuff with his little sister. And maybe teach your daughter not to go digging through his stuff and that too will protect her from finding pills (or other stuff an older teenage boy might have in his possession that you might not want her to see at age 8). 

Kimble had that speech in her pocket? Did she write it in hopes she would suddenly be added to the program?

Everything I learned about search laws I learned from Law and Order. The lady with the camera phone is not a suspect, she is a victim. Lenny and Logan were forever searching the "vic's" stuff with the excuse that presumably the victim would want you to find their killer. In court, lawyers could successfully get the pictures hacked from her phone thrown out in a case against her. I don't think they would be excluded in a case against others.

Tech guy - I'm going to report you for asking me to hack the phone and then hack it anyway. Odd.

To the conspiracy angle. There is the oft chance the Congressman was a suicide bomber. Or a dupe and the blast was more powerful than his handlers let on. Perhaps thinking it was just meant for the podium with the President and the immediate line of succession.

 

On the search warrant my Law & Order law school has been supplemented by course work on The Closer where one of Chief Johnson's first moves in the early episodes was to tell her Lieutenants to slow down and get a warrant before searching the victim's home. It made sense when her senior subordinate wise sayings would be it is always the husband as he saw a horse and not a zebra at every crime scene.

[GoMocs]

The video.  Anybody else suspect the video was faked by some close to the President to force the war? The General that is always upset with the Prez is involved with it. They faked the video, then they hacked the computer system and inserted it.

And with respect to the mine that was found un-exploded...they would literally have to have a truckload of those to have the explosion we were shown. That mine would be good for blowing up a car, but would not bring down a building. Why has nobody on the show mentioned that aspect?

[kili]

The president asked a valid question. Why was Al Jazeera good enough for bin Laden, but not for these guys? Even if there is a conspiracy, why put it on the president's lap top? Just because they can? What if he doesn't release your video? If you want to tell him you can access his laptop, steal something from it while releasing your video to Al Jazeera. I suspect there is more going on. Although, the "more going on" is probably just that the writers needed a reason for Aaron to go behind his boss's back and help him at the same time.

Just unplug the WiFi if you want to stop a lap top hack. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by kili

[Constantinople]

Is Kirkman letting Hookstraten approve and disapprove of his cabinet selections or he just informally consulting her?

She's not a member of the Senate so from a Constitutional perspective, she's irrelevant regarding cabinet appointments.  For that matter, Kirkman can always make a recess appointment.

[henripootel]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Quelle surprise, Hannah's boyfriend was married.  

Also, that a top female FBI agent, in the wake of (arguably) the worst disaster in American history, precipitating a state of actual war, is mostly concerned with ... a boy, and ... feelings.  One wonders how this would be received if Hannah was a guy mooning over his lost squeeze instead of doing his job.  Chicks, amiright?

'Big Moves'?  What is this, Designated Survivor or actual Survivor?  If releasing the tape was part of Aaron's nefarious plans all along, I'm gonna be pissed.  "So what I'll do is go ahead and release the fake tape, then Kirkman will grudgingly admit I made a 'big move' and make me his CoS, ...'  I think even Jeff Probst would say "Dude, that's not so much 'big' as 'stupid' - he's gonna be on your ass quicker than DC police on a brown guy with a backpack, and there goes your plan.'

Quote

they would literally have to have a truckload of those to have the explosion we were shown. That mine would be good for blowing up a car, but would not bring down a building. Why has nobody on the show mentioned that aspect?

What, that there's no way this wasn't an inside job?  Whomever planned all this apparently couldn't be bothered to conceal this glaringly-obvious fact, even though this is exactly the kind of info that ruins conspiracies.  Bit more of this and we'll be moving into Quantico levels of 'realism'. 

Quote

The discord about whether Kirkman was fired and therefore illegitimate made little sense. 

Why did the conspirators even allow this to be part of their plan?  These guys arranged to sneak tons of explosives into a highly-secure building, detonate it at a uniquely opportune moment, hide a guy in the midst of the blast, and (it seems) manufacture an orgy of evidence blaming it on terrorists.  Question: why not just kill Kirkman at the same time?  The Conspiracy arranged all this but didn't have a better plan to put their guy into the Oval Office?  I think these guys need to look up the term 'coup d'état'.

Edited October 6, 2016 by henripootel

[retired watcher]

11 hours ago, DEM said:

The discord about whether Kirkman was fired and therefore illegitimate made little sense.  If, in fact, he had been fired and were no longer the HUD Secretary, then he could not have been the Designated Survivor.

This show is compelling for me only on the strength of Kiefer Sutherland.  It needs much smarter writers.

Cabinet members technically can't be fired. They can be asked to resign and Kirkman didn't have time to turn one in. 

[kili]

Quote

Question: why not just kill Kirkman at the same time?  The Conspiracy arranged all this but didn't have a better plan to put their guy into the Oval Office?

I think the person who was originally slated to be the Designated Survivor was the person they wanted in power. Because Aaron (was it Aaron?) couldn't keep his mouth shut and leaked to Kirkman that he was going to get the boot the next day, the President obviously changed plans at the last minute and assigned Kirkman to be the designated survivor (probably didn't want to have him shooting darts at him all during the speech). The conspiracy guys had no plan to kill the Designated Survivor and no time to generate a back-up plan. It's not like they could delay their plan because they needed everybody together and that only happens during the State of the Union address. So, they went with the plan they had and probably figured they could fix Kirkman later.

My question is....where is the original designated survivor (surely that is planned weeks in advance and isn't a last minute phone call). Is he still alive? If yes, he is in on it. If no, he was just a dupe they figured they could manipulate and they probably think Kirkman is the same way.

I am more and more convinced that Kimble is on it. The conspiracy would surely have had somebody on the other side prepared. And that speech she had ready to go tonight? Either she plans for absolutely every contingency or she had a reason to think that would happen. I even find her cooperation suspicious.

[Gladrags]

10 hours ago, Bobbin said:

This is TV, not a blockbuster theatrical movie. They probably don't have the budget or resources to depict nationwide shock and panic. Still, they could do a better job of implying widespread chaos.

I'm imagining the national reaction would be more like what Margaret  Atwood depicted in "The Handmaid's Tale": people just waiting and watching TV to see what happens next.

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Chief of Staff isn't necessarily better than Senior Adviser or some other nebulous position.  Sure, if you're Leo McGarry you essentially become the co-president, but in the Obama and Bush administrations the people with the closest ties to the president (Rove, Jarrett, Axelrod, Plouffe) have been given the senior adviser title. 

Ohhhhhh, now I really miss The West Wing. :(

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, retired watcher said:

Cabinet members technically can't be fired. They can be asked to resign and Kirkman didn't have time to turn one in. 

Andrew Johnson fired Edwin Stanton (or tried to, anyway).

[kris4n6]

My question in regards to the cell phone/cloud photographs, is why would it be such a hassle to get a search warrant?  Write it up and find a judge, I don't think you're going to find one that's going to turn that request down.  They should be trying to get into the cell phones of every person that was there and might have taken a photograph.  And why are they only focusing on the seconds when the explosion happened and not looking at footage from earlier in the evening, which might have shown something being planted or someone acting strangely?

That funeral was also ridiculous.  It's only been what, two or three days?  The president's body didn't lie in state at all (I know, no Capitol building for it to lie in state *in* but they could have made other arrangements), no foreign dignitaries, not having the First Lady's funeral at the same time, heck, how have they even positively identified his body yet?  DNA doesn't take ten minutes no matter what CSI told us.  I also found it strange that they were focusing on a funeral already.  

When Kirkman said "On a school night?" about Leo supposedly spending the night at a friend's, I fully expected his wife to say "School?  They're closed and we don't know when they'll reopen."  I mean, I was on vacation when 9/11 happened and I wasn't really paying attention to schools where I was, but did everyone just go back the next day?  Even in DC and NYC?

I'm mainly enjoying this show but it definitely has some faults.

[henripootel]

42 minutes ago, kili said:

So, they went with the plan they had and probably figured they could fix Kirkman later.

I agree with you that this is where the writers went, but I don't think it satisfies my objection.  The conspirators went to incredible lengths to take of the government, and pulled off a near-miracle of organized domestic terrorism, and they bumbled the one part of the plan that really mattered?  I mean having a DS is procedurally important, but in truth it's a formality in case of something mind-bogglingly unlikely actually happening.  It's not a small detail, it's (likely) the linchpin of the entire plan.  

And I get that the conspiracy is now scrambling, but these guys just killed 1000 people.  They're now a life or two away from seeing their plans work, and they have a president who likes to stand out on the Truman balcony and visit places with minimal security wearing a ball cap.  So the Conspiracy is both unbelievably well-organized and effective, and unbelievably un-organized and ineffective.   Writers: pick one. 

[kili]

Quote

When Kirkman said "On a school night?" about Leo supposedly spending the night at a friend's, I fully expected his wife to say "School?  They're closed and we don't know when they'll reopen."  

Plus, isn't it the weekend by now? The State of the Union is generally given on a Tuesday night and the funeral is happening 3 days after the explosion.  So, isn't it Friday and tomorrow Saturday?

Do you just get to go to sleep-overs when you are the First Kid? I would see hosting them being more of an option. Does the girl have any friends at all? They are never mentioned.

I'm not too worried about the no lying in state thing. One wouldn't want people congregating in DC for something like that when the terrorists are still out there.

[Gladrags]

29 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Andrew Johnson fired Edwin Stanton (or tried to, anyway).

And was impeached for his trouble (but acquitted). I'm not up on late 19th Century Supreme Court decisions, but I vaguely remember a ruling that backed a president's power to fire a person in a Congressionally appointed position. 

[Raja]

30 minutes ago, henripootel said:

I agree with you that this is where the writers went, but I don't think it satisfies my objection.  The conspirators went to incredible lengths to take of the government, and pulled off a near-miracle of organized domestic terrorism, and they bumbled the one part of the plan that really mattered?  I mean having a DS is procedurally important, but in truth it's a formality in case of something mind-bogglingly unlikely actually happening.  It's not a small detail, it's (likely) the linchpin of the entire plan.  

And I get that the conspiracy is now scrambling, but these guys just killed 1000 people.  They're now a life or two away from seeing their plans work, and they have a president who likes to stand out on the Truman balcony and visit places with minimal security wearing a ball cap.  So the Conspiracy is both unbelievably well-organized and effective, and unbelievably un-organized and ineffective.   Writers: pick one. 

Unless spoiler for 24 you know who is the terrorist.

[buckboard]

I had trouble with the funeral, too.  The president has just been assassinated along with much of the rest of the government.  And the new president doesn't speak, at the request of the son?  This is not just a family event.  This is a state funeral.  Kirkham should have spoken.  

It was also mind boggling that Aaron released the video and has put the nation in danger, he can't be trusted, he's lied to him and yet Kirkham keeps him on as CoS.  I understand that Kirkham's assistant might not have the experience to be Chief, but these aren't the only two people from which to choose.  And we don't even know yet what  the mysterious exchange on the bridge is about.  Not a smart move, Mr. President.

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, kris4n6 said:

When Kirkman said "On a school night?" about Leo supposedly spending the night at a friend's, I fully expected his wife to say "School?  They're closed and we don't know when they'll reopen."  I mean, I was on vacation when 9/11 happened and I wasn't really paying attention to schools where I was, but did everyone just go back the next day?  Even in DC and NYC?

I went back to school the next day but I'm a Canadian. (They sent us home early but were open the next day. No one was really doing school work and half the kids stayed home.)

My issue is that even if the schools are open, you're telling me the First Kids are in their regular school right after this attack? Bullshit! First Kid schooling is way more complicated than that because of security and it takes time to get that all set up. And I'd imagine that arranging their security isn't a priority days after this attack. They'd be out of school for weeks at least while things were sorted out.

I'm with everyone who is enjoying the mystery and the larger plot but the details are so messy and it yanks me out of the story.

[orza]

4 minutes ago, buckboard said:

I had trouble with the funeral, too.  The president has just been assassinated along with much of the rest of the government.  And the new president doesn't speak, at the request of the son?  This is not just a family event.  This is a state funeral.  Kirkham should have spoken. 

They said the funeral was a private event and Kirkman was asked to deliver the eulogy. The son changed his mind about Kirkman speaking after seeing the Vargas interview online. The dead president's body is not property of the government. I doubt anyone can force a state funeral. A public memorial service, sure, but it seems unlikely that government officials can commandeer the casket for a public event against the wishes of the family without looking like dicks.

[revbfc]

Did anyone else's feed of the show have messed up parts?  About 15 minutes in the picture froze for two minutes with a loud high-pitched screech over it. It wasn't just a cable issue since the same thing was happening over the air.

[merylinkid]

13 minutes ago, revbfc said:

Did anyone else's feed of the show have messed up parts?  About 15 minutes in the picture froze for two minutes with a loud high-pitched screech over it. It wasn't just a cable issue since the same thing was happening over the air.

I thought it was on purpose.   To hide important information being conveyed that would tip the viewers off.   Or maybe I was just too tired to think straight. 

[revbfc]

7 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I thought it was on purpose.   To hide important information being conveyed that would tip the viewers off.   Or maybe I was just too tired to think straight. 

it couldn't be.  The feed went back to the that same frozen frame and screech two more times (though only a few seconds each) later in the episode.