S08.E23: Reunion Part 3

[motorcitymom65]

16 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

So Ramona was suppose to surprise Bethenny with the Tipsy Girl at her birthday party, in November, Ramona backed out after several months of being in on the planning and instead Sonja launched it right around November 20th, the articles hit the Post on November 27th, Bethenny eviscerated Sonja after the dry cleaner party on December 8 and Sonja was not invited to the December 13th, Berkshires party.

I just smell Ramona all over this punt to Sonja.  Very similar to her sending the hounds after Luann in Turks & Caicos, when it was Ramona that left her man upstairs, also resembles Ramona engaging Luann in negative chat about John and then calling Dorinda about the conversation, and conveniently leaving herself out.  From the exclamation at the party about Tipsy Girl being close to Skinnygirl as if she never had heard of the concept, to the Post mention, to Bethenny telling Sonja, Ramona told her Peter was no good.  All these intimate moments with Bethenny and never once did she mention she knew about the restaurant and Prosecco.  Carole speaks of Luann not mentioning Tom to Sonja, what is with this no mention of Ramona's involvement in Tipsy Girl to her BFF Bethenny?  You know like girlfriends do.  Another example of Ramona removing herself from the equation.

When Bethenny was reading Luann out about staying with Sonja, it was Sonja's reference to Luann coming in at 5 am, when she stayed with her previously, it was Ramona asserting they were living in a bordello, with swinging doors of men, when Sonja in fact clarified she and Luann never brought a men home while Luann was staying with Sonja.

Then there is Ramona going on and on about integrity and generosity.  Where is hers?  And why doesn't Bethenny call her out on her lack of character and lying oh and made spreading malicious gossip which she, Bethenny relied on?  This is Ramona who saves a heart on her palm and can recall every place she and Tom walked by and calling him a liar because he said two dates and it was 4,5,6, 7, or 12, when she has a huge omission and feeds the beast that is Bethenny about the most important thing in the world to her Skinnygirl misdirection.

One more thing Carole didn't seem to be bothered, and in fact laughed, when Bethenny was calling Ramona out on her age, and Carole raised an eyebrow when Ramona spoke of using a diaphragm-so she is not so innocent in the age shaming game.  It seems Carole also had a few choice comments about her housemates in Montana and their need to have the thermostat set low.

I think you are on to something with Ramona. 

I've always thought that Ramona, Sonja and Lu hatched a lot of stuff when it was originally the 3 of them holding out for more money. I think it was Ramona who was going to do the Tipsygirl stuff with Peter, her old partner. I think that the stuff with Tom was thought up among the 3 of them (no way that none of them were communicating with the others about him, what with Sonja doing him on and off for 10 years, Ramona dating him, and Dorinda trying to get Lu fixed up with him. For the record, I also think that Lu fell in actual love with the guy, but that wasn't part of the initial plan). I think Ramona got scared - probably of Beth, and also of holding out for a contract and she caved really fast. think the plan went south at that point. Sonja picked up the Tipsygirl stuff and they ran with the Tom deal. I think that Ramona spilled the beans to Carole and Beth, probably to get on their good side. Ramona and Beth didn't end last season on a good note, so the fact that Ramona and Beth were so close from the very beginning of the season always seemed strange to me. Carole has always liked Ramona, so nothing strange there. Beth filed her Trademark before the party where Sonja had her launch, so she already knew that Sonja was working on it, and I think this came from Ramona. I really, really dislike Ramona, but she makes great reality TV, and is the easiest to snark on, IMO. 

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Some would say she did none of those positive things with Aviva, and she did let a lot go with Lu.  

Look, I know that some never liked Carole but I wasn't one of them. I defended her last season and the season before, I liked her and I still see that Carole break free once in a while but that happened less and less this season and I do think it was a direct result of Bethenny's influence. Heather could apologize sincerely and "make nice" (ty Dorinda), she could let things go and try to rebuild broken friendships and Carole did it as well before this season. IMO, she would have accepted Luann's apology earlier had it not been for Bethenny's open dislike of Luann from the jump this season. I think Carole is drawn to stronger personalities and follows their lead, even when it goes against her true nature. Heather is a strong personality but she encouraged Carole to have her own feelings/thoughts independent of hers, Bethenny does not do that with Carole, she, Bethenny, needs someone to agree with her at all times and she picked  Carole to fill that roll on the show.

Funny, I remember both Carole and Heather counseling each other at different times to make nice/let it go with Aviva but Aviva would not allow it to happen. LOL Yes, she did finally accept Luann's apology but then kept slamming her right along side Bethenny despite what she told Luann when Bethenny was not around, which makes her behavior bizarre IMO.

[WireWrap]

12 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think you are on to something with Ramona. 

I've always thought that Ramona, Sonja and Lu hatched a lot of stuff when it was originally the 3 of them holding out for more money. I think it was Ramona who was going to do the Tipsygirl stuff with Peter, her old partner. I think that the stuff with Tom was thought up among the 3 of them (no way that none of them were communicating with the others about him, what with Sonja doing him on and off for 10 years, Ramona dating him, and Dorinda trying to get Lu fixed up with him. For the record, I also think that Lu fell in actual love with the guy, but that wasn't part of the initial plan). I think Ramona got scared - probably of Beth, and also of holding out for a contract and she caved really fast. think the plan went south at that point. Sonja picked up the Tipsygirl stuff and they ran with the Tom deal. I think that Ramona spilled the beans to Carole and Beth, probably to get on their good side. Ramona and Beth didn't end last season on a good note, so the fact that Ramona and Beth were so close from the very beginning of the season always seemed strange to me. Carole has always liked Ramona, so nothing strange there. Beth filed her Trademark before the party where Sonja had her launch, so she already knew that Sonja was working on it, and I think this came from Ramona. I really, really dislike Ramona, but she makes great reality TV, and is the easiest to snark on, IMO. 

LOL All roads lead back to Ramona! LOL She played Bethenny against the others to secure her Apple! LOL

[motorcitymom65]

39 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Anytime anyone talks about "age", even in general, you can visibly see her back stiffen, become rigid, expecting a dig about the difference between her/Adam. Heck, she even talked about only having "5 good summers left" with Adam herself. And Carole has made "age jokes" herself about the others, so No, she isn't/wasn't some one saying jokes about age are off limits.

As far as Carole/Heather's friendship compared to Carole/Bethenny's friendship, IMO, there is a very big difference. Carole had no problem telling Heather she was wrong, to apologize to someone, to let an argument go but she hasn't gone against Bethenny at all this season, as if she has morphed into a mini Bethenny. I never thought Carole was cold but either I was wrong about her or she is showing me that this is who she really is at her core. I still see peeks at the Carole I like but then she morphs back into that Mini Bethenny that I dislike.

What Carole doesn't like is when people use age as a way to degrade someone or make them feel "less than". Lots of people joke about age. When I turned 50 all my friends that I loved started joking that I was "old" now. They weren't saying it to make me feel bad or hurt my feelings. My point is that she has always been this way; it didn't happen because she met Adam and suddenly changed.  This is what she had to say about Aviva and her age shaming at the time:

"Age-Shaming: Guess what? I'm 50! I should be drawn and quartered, I should have it seared on my chest. Aviva's derogatory attitude toward women is repulsive. Even her image consultant friend flinches. I'm happy with my age. I celebrate women of all ages. Isn't it time to stop our ageist culture where women are meant to feel bad about a number? I don't feel bad about mine. No woman should." 

That was only the first time she talked about this that season. She mentioned something about it in almost every blog. Often mocking Avivia because when she started the show she said she was 45, then suddenly she was listing her age as 40. Carole was relentless towards Aviva about the age thing, constantly reminding us in her blogs that Aviva's attitude bugged her. These blogs were beloved by so many. People would post links to her blogs as soon as they went up. I rarely read where anyone was upset with Carole for being "touchy" about her age, because she was going after Aviva, who most people hated. At the beginning of this season, people felt the same about Jules and her comments. She was vilified for making them. How dare she age shame. That was back when folks didn't think they liked her.

The thing is, people think that Carole isn't consistent, and I think that she is. She felt the exact same way about age-shaming when Aviva did it that she does when Jules does it. I think the audience is not consistent. They are OK with you doing/saying some things, depending on how they feel about who you are saying it to, and who you are aligned with on the show. 

[missy jo]

I don't know why Bethenny thinks anyone would believe she was genuinely upset in Miami about revealing the Tom news to LuAnn. She'd already screamed at Lu for hours in the Berkshires about what a slut she thought she was and how much she hated her. Then all of a sudden, she's filled with concern and generosity? Please. 

[Castina]

I remember reading about Ramona and Tipsy Girl months ago:

  http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/ramona-singer-original-tipsy-girl-bethenny-frankel-lashed-out/

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, motorcitymom65 said:

What Carole doesn't like is when people use age as a way to degrade someone or make them feel "less than". Lots of people joke about age. When I turned 50 all my friends that I loved started joking that I was "old" now. They weren't saying it to make me feel bad or hurt my feelings. My point is that she has always been this way; it didn't happen because she met Adam and suddenly changed.  This is what she had to say about Aviva and her age shaming at the time:

"Age-Shaming: Guess what? I'm 50! I should be drawn and quartered, I should have it seared on my chest. Aviva's derogatory attitude toward women is repulsive. Even her image consultant friend flinches. I'm happy with my age. I celebrate women of all ages. Isn't it time to stop our ageist culture where women are meant to feel bad about a number? I don't feel bad about mine. No woman should." 

That was only the first time she talked about this that season. She mentioned something about it in almost every blog. Often mocking Avivia because when she started the show she said she was 45, then suddenly she was listing her age as 40. Carole was relentless towards Aviva about the age thing, constantly reminding us in her blogs that Aviva's attitude bugged her. These blogs were beloved by so many. People would post links to her blogs as soon as they went up. I rarely read where anyone was upset with Carole for being "touchy" about her age, because she was going after Aviva, who most people hated. At the beginning of this season, people felt the same about Jules and her comments. She was vilified for making them. How dare she age shame. That was back when folks didn't think they liked her.

The thing is, people think that Carole isn't consistent, and I think that she is. She felt the exact same way about age-shaming when Aviva did it that she does when Jules does it. I think the audience is not consistent. They are OK with you doing/saying some things, depending on how they feel about who you are saying it to, and who you are aligned with on the show. 

She has done it herself, made age jokes/comments at others expense. What she doesn't like is when these jokes/comments are made about her. She got her little jokes in about Sonja dating young guys, Luann sleeping with young guys, so as long as the jokes aren't about her and she is making them she is just fine with them.

Yes, Jules was an idiot with/about the "menopause" comments, even though she was referring to them acting like teens in HS instead of women of a certain age but it was childish of her. That said, Jules menopause comments were no where near as personal a comment as were the comments Carole and Bethenny made about her, Jules, weight........which is when the age/menopause comments were brought up by Carole herself at the reunion. Carole was trying to paint Jules and her comments, that happened 2 or 3 times early in the season, as bad as her/Bethenny's weight digs about Jules through much of the entire season. Carole was "looking for tits on an ant" (tyvm Kyle). LOL

[WireWrap]

10 minutes ago, Castina said:

I remember reading about Ramona and Tipsy Girl months ago:

  http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/ramona-singer-original-tipsy-girl-bethenny-frankel-lashed-out/

Bethenny was just playing stupid! She knew all about Ramona/Peter/Sonja/TG before filming began because Ramona told her. This is why/how Ramona had her own space up Bethenny's rear end, just below Carole. LOL

[film noire]

20 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Time stamp! You forgot time stamp!

Apologies if already mentioned, I am only on page two...

Page 2 = your time stamp? :)

[Castina]

Just now, WireWrap said:

Bethenny was just playing stupid! She knew all about Ramona/Peter/Sonja/TG before filming began because Ramona told her. This is why/how Ramona had her own space up Bethenny's rear end, just below Carole. LOL

I just checked twitter to see when they filmed the reunion and it was around July 13.  A month after that article I linked.  So when Bethenny pretends it was all news to her at the reunion was that an example of her keeping it real and honest? ;)

[motorcitymom65]

5 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

She has done it herself, made age jokes/comments at others expense. What she doesn't like is when these jokes/comments are made about her. She got her little jokes in about Sonja dating young guys, Luann sleeping with young guys, so as long as the jokes aren't about her and she is making them she is just fine with them.

Yes, Jules was an idiot with/about the "menopause" comments, even though she was referring to them acting like teens in HS instead of women of a certain age but it was childish of her. That said, Jules menopause comments were no where near as personal a comment as were the comments Carole and Bethenny made about her, Jules, weight........which is when the age/menopause comments were brought up by Carole herself at the reunion. Carole was trying to paint Jules and her comments, that happened 2 or 3 times early in the season, as bad as her/Bethenny's weight digs about Jules through much of the entire season. Carole was "looking for tits on an ant" (tyvm Kyle). LOL

Yes, she doesn't like when jokes are made about her, but makes them about others. Agreed. This makes her like every other person on the planet. 

I am clearly making my point badly, so I will stop after this. My point is not that she makes/doesn't make jokes. It's not that she is/is not hypocritical. It is that she has ALWAYS been the same. ALWAYS. When it comes to this topic, she is always offended by what offends her. She didn't suddenly become like this because of Adam. Or because of Beth. Lots of people watching the show don't like her now because of Adam, or because of Beth. IMO that is just insane, if the idea is that they have somehow changed her. They are not the cause of the Carole that we see on the show. She is exactly who she has always been. Could the edit be different. Of course, but I will assume that everyone knows that this could be the case. 

If Heather comes back next season (please Baby Jesus grant me this one wish) and Carole is the same gal as this season - having a problem with people making jokes, but making jokes at their expense at the same time - but has an issue with Beth, people will suddenly love her. They just will. Doesn't really matter much what she says or does. She can be kind of nasty. She can be offended by age-shaming. She can be dating the young chef. She can have the same personality as this year and lots of people will like her just because she doesn't like Beth. 

[WireWrap]

9 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Yes, she doesn't like when jokes are made about her, but makes them about others. Agreed. This makes her like every other person on the planet. 

I am clearly making my point badly, so I will stop after this. My point is not that she makes/doesn't make jokes. It's not that she is/is not hypocritical. It is that she has ALWAYS been the same. ALWAYS. When it comes to this topic, she is always offended by what offends her. She didn't suddenly become like this because of Adam. Or because of Beth. Lots of people watching the show don't like her now because of Adam, or because of Beth. IMO that is just insane, if the idea is that they have somehow changed her. They are not the cause of the Carole that we see on the show. She is exactly who she has always been. Could the edit be different. Of course, but I will assume that everyone knows that this could be the case. 

If Heather comes back next season (please Baby Jesus grant me this one wish) and Carole is the same gal as this season - having a problem with people making jokes, but making jokes at their expense at the same time - but has an issue with Beth, people will suddenly love her. They just will. Doesn't really matter much what she says or does. She can be kind of nasty. She can be offended by age-shaming. She can be dating the young chef. She can have the same personality as this year and lots of people will like her just because she doesn't like Beth. 

Ok, we agree that Carole can make them about others but can't take them when aimed at her, something they all seem to share.

I still disagree with you here though, Carole is very different with Bethenny than she was with Heather. I really think Carole adopts whatever personality quirks her stronger personality friend has and goes along to get along, even when she disagrees with it. Maybe the difference is just that Heather is a compassionate person by nature and Bethenny isn't. Although not perfect, Heather can be OTT, she has balance in that she also brings compassion, real compassion and Bethenny lacks that, she is just OTT nasty 95%n of the time.

As much as I like Heather, I don't want her back because Bethenny will target her again and make no mistake, Bethenny targeted her last season big time.

[dosodog]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

It turns out we had all of those things when I was in high school and college in the 90s. There was less LSD and more ecstasy, still a ton of pot, and Aerosmith was known for their Amazing, Crazy, Cryin' videos starring Alicia Silverstone.

I actually had never heard any of Aerosmith's pre Walk this Way with Run DMC stuff until the mid 2000s.

As a teenager from the 70s that wore out the groves from Toys in the Attic, it makes sad that the 90's Aerosmith (whose songs are written by other people) is more popular than 70s Aerosmith (who wrote their own awesomely bluesy, hard rockin American version of the Rolling Stones ).

Not to take away from your experience you millennium whipper snapper .  Just get off my baby boomer lawn. ;)

Edited September 16, 2016 by dosodog
added a wink to make it clear it's tongue in cheek. And that 70s Aerosmith is the BEST Aerosmith

[hypnotoad]

Quote

the more gloaty and obstinate she became about what is clearly a disaster waiting to happen - I stopped feeling sorry for her.  Maybe she needs this kind of drama in her relationships. 

Or maybe Luann doesn't really care about him stepping out as long as he doesn't do it where everyone can find out. There are many people out there who don't believe in monogamy and have happy relationships and marriages.

A married couple I work with participate in spouse swapping. They seem very happy and in love (when on break and take a walk around the parking lot they hold hands) but they are not monogamous.

Maybe this will end up to be a mess for Luann or maybe she just really likes this guy and they have an understanding about certain aspects of the relationship. Now if this is the case, I'd prefer she'd just own it and shut Bethenny the hell up but whateverpants.

I used to love Bethenny and now I cannot even look at her plastic, frozen face or listen to that shrieking voice. I really wish she would quit this show for good.

Quote

As a teenager from the 70s that wore out the groves from Toys in the Attic, it makes sad that the 90's Aerosmith (whose songs are written by other people) is more popular than 70s Aerosmith (who wrote their own awesomely bluesy, hard rockin American version of the Rolling Stones ).

Back in the day when Heart was having a bit of comeback with that album with the song These Dreams on it, they were playing a music fest in St Paul. They were actually a little too big for the fest at that moment because the crowd was huge and venue a bit small. We were sitting near some teens and when Heart started playing their hits from the 70s we sang along. The kids, of course, had no idea Heart had been around for ages, so I feel you on that Aerosmith stuff! I much prefer Aerosmith 70s output.

Edited September 16, 2016 by hypnotoad

[Almost 3000]

As a RHoNYC pallet cleanser, here's Carole's Baby Dog having her own doggie reunion:

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, Castina said:

I remember reading about Ramona and Tipsy Girl months ago:

  http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/ramona-singer-original-tipsy-girl-bethenny-frankel-lashed-out/

Thanks Castina, so that makes Bethenny a big fat LIAR.  No way she didn't see this in the news.  So her feigning shock was a misdirection.  I knew there was something off about the SURPRISE Bethenny claimed. 

[Petunia13]

5 hours ago, QuinnM said:

So in Bethenny's favor is the fact that she actually uses Madam Paulette, pays the bill, and speaks highly of the service. 

Are you serious? After she's called him and his gf drug addicts on national tv and social media multiple times? Some people will do anything for money or fame -including colluding with people who are complete shit to you. 

I have too much dignity for that. 

[shoegal]

7 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Thanks Castina, so that makes Bethenny a big fat LIAR.  No way she didn't see this in the news.  So her feigning shock was a misdirection.  I knew there was something off about the SURPRISE Bethenny claimed. 

I did not get the impression Bethenny was surprised by just learning about Ramona's involvement at the reunion. When Sonja brings it up, she says "how about the friends that were going to do Tipsy Girl, the friends that signed the contract..." and Bethenny interrupts to say to Ramona "yeah, Sonja said that you were going to do it"....so Bethenny knew prior to the reunion. They taped in July, that article was May, so yeah, it was a new piece of info in terms of the show.

[QuinnM]

Quote

Are you serious? 

Absolutely. I've never heard her call them drug addicts. And I have seen her snap on the great moth in the closet infestation that John handled. She has said that there is more snow in NY than any other housewife city. But that's not saying John is addicted to drugs.   So yes I'm serious. 

[ElDosEquis]

15 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

Are you serious? After she's called him and his gf drug addicts on national tv and social media multiple times? Some people will do anything for money or fame -including colluding with people who are complete shit to you. 

I have too much dignity for that. 

John probably gives her a deeply discounted rate and that bitch is too fucking cheap - and without shame - to go anywhere else.

John is one of those guys that is too good for his own good - I can see people taking advantage of his nature?

She probably sends her 'zero fucks' and 'jock' t-shirts, along with all the free underwear Andy has given her, to have them done.*

 

*the underwear her fibroids ruined - She had her assistant deal with them?

[tenativelyyours]

Okay LIAR I agree.  Its like she is running for office she has such a hard time with the truth.  But fat is just not going to fly.  She's just too much like that wing you sometimes get in your order that shifts to the bottom of the bucket.  Looks like two bones barely held together by some desiccated skin and whatever meat is rock hard and reminds you of those stone age bodies they keep finding in the Alps after tens thousand years thanks to the snow levels melting in record amounts.  If you aren't drunk enough you might call over your server and ask if they just didn't try to slip a half eaten wing they swept off another table and threw back in the oil.  If you are drunk enough you slather it with dark red hot sauce and call it munching the Frankel and tell your friend you'll buy the next round if he is brave and stupid enough to try and eat it.

[WireWrap]

21 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Absolutely. I've never heard her call them drug addicts. And I have seen her snap on the great moth in the closet infestation that John handled. She has said that there is more snow in NY than any other housewife city. But that's not saying John is addicted to drugs.   So yes I'm serious. 

Correct, she didn't call John or Dorinda drug "addicts", just drug "users".

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, hypnotoad said:

Or maybe Luann doesn't really care about him stepping out as long as he doesn't do it where everyone can find out. There are many people out there who don't believe in monogamy and have happy relationships and marriages.

I believe she cares very much about him stepping out.  Obviously not as much as many of us would, because he'd be kicked to the curb. But I digress. 

She told Carole at the sand bar that she couldn't 'do' an open marriage and that's why her marriage ended.  That now she wanted a "real relationship" and that's why she was with Tom.  This was prior to finding out he cheated.  She was shocked that Beth asked her if she and Tom were going to be monogamous.  I'm sure Lu thought so at that time.

I agree that there are many people who don't believe in monogamy. But Lu isn't one of them.  Although, she was once a cheat, too, I think she thought that she and Tom - self described players, were tired of playin' and were going to settle down with just each other. 

[RedheadZombie]

I have no interest in wading into the generation argument, but that isn't really the point.  Dorinda's point had to do with treating Jules in such a way because Jules is so much younger, and apparently needed to be coddled or treated more gently.  I don't agree with Dorinda's point.  Past the age of thirty or so, we're all peers, IMO.  No, my "elder" does not automatically demand deference because of their age.  I work in the medical field with people a generation older, and a generation younger.  We are peers, and I treat them the same across the board.  Now if Dorinda had said:  Due to Jules's ED struggle and failing marriage, I felt she should be treated x,y,z - I get it.  But this turned into another age issue, which was irrelevant, IMO.

BTW, If I were Jules, I'd be insulted at being grouped in with Hannah.

[tenativelyyours]

I disagree somewhat.  I think Luann cares more about appearances.  Or at least she did in her marriage.  Her ex husband was someone who cheated on her before it seems.  And even had he simply had a public affair with the princess, she might still be married to him.  But he left her didn't he?  A husband that cheats and a husband that leaves you are not quite the same thing when it comes to autopsying the divorce.     And I think that the phrase open marriage was a sort of sad way to minimize being cheated on again and again.  Not that she used it as such herself.  But I think that he cheated and she ignored it.  And maybe down the line she decided to cheat herself.  And when it was complicity known in their circles the open marriage thing becomes a term that gets floated and never addressed because it is better and less humiliating to assume that you still hold power in an open marriage as opposed to just being the woman that your husband cheats on.  Once or again and again.  And Luann has that pride thing going pretty hard.  Don't say that her husband of the time is older.  My teenage daughter who can do math might fall over in shock.   Instead of the shrug laugh and simply statement of the age difference and then a pointed response as to what it matters.   No she had to go all fishwife at that charity event and only lowered herself to Ramona's silly level.

Again I think the parallels between these women that I suspect loathe each other no matter how many group hugs they perform for the cameras are actually amusing.  Because I think Luann's marriage and Ramona's were quite similar.  As long as their spouses didn't do it publicly they might not have been okay with it but they were willing to live with it because both have demonstrated some really odd, sad and antiquated ideas of the value of simply being married (Ramona claiming she was working on her marriage publicly when Mario had moved out the day prior and had said some really hateful things publicly about her and their marriage is a prime example).

I do think that Tom and Luann's ex are not completely analogous here though.  So I do think it is quite possible she learned from the past somewhat and she and Tom had the talk about what they saw as being faithful and being committed and even married.  And Tom told her what she wanted to hear and then betrayed that.  But again I look back and it was the public aspect of him being caught that bothered her and seemed, to me, part of the shifting of blame to the pernicious clutches.  It seemed a lot less "what and why" and "how could you".  The hurt coming from being embarrassed and almost taking a turn at one point of "why couldn't you do this in private".  She also was determined to play it out and make it work for her on camera I think.  That doesn't mitigate what the Monster did.  All that does is confirm she is a reality show cast member born and bred.  Money can't buy you class but it can buy your dignity splayed out for the cameras to see.

I liked the banter with a co-worker who watches today and figured that if you think you can spin the 'idiot' in "village idiot" as being metaphorical in any situation, you probably are a village of one (though we also figured that it would merely ruffle the Monster's poorly thought out bangs as it went right over her fillered, hammered and chiseled head).

[WireWrap]

12 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I have no interest in wading into the generation argument, but that isn't really the point.  Dorinda's point had to do with treating Jules in such a way because Jules is so much younger, and apparently needed to be coddled or treated more gently.  I don't agree with Dorinda's point.  Past the age of thirty or so, we're all peers, IMO.  No, my "elder" does not automatically demand deference because of their age.  I work in the medical field with people a generation older, and a generation younger.  We are peers, and I treat them the same across the board.  Now if Dorinda had said:  Due to Jules's ED struggle and failing marriage, I felt she should be treated x,y,z - I get it.  But this turned into another age issue, which was irrelevant, IMO.

BTW, If I were Jules, I'd be insulted at being grouped in with Hannah.

I disagree. Jules was talking about how Bethenny/Carole kept talking about her weight/ED (BTW, something Bethenny totally denied [insert eye roll]) and Carole brought up the 2 or 3 times Jules talked about their ages/menopause early in the season. Carole went as far as to claim she and Jules are in the same "generation" and Dorinda was quick to point out that they were not. That is how the conversation happened and it was about how Bethenny/Carole treated Jules about her ED, not her age.

[shoegal]

13 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I disagree. Jules was talking about how Bethenny/Carole kept talking about her weight/ED (BTW, something Bethenny totally denied [insert eye roll]) and Carole brought up the 2 or 3 times Jules talked about their ages/menopause early in the season. Carole went as far as to claim she and Jules are in the same "generation" and Dorinda was quick to point out that they were not. That is how the conversation happened and it was about how Bethenny/Carole treated Jules about her ED, not her age.

Actually, Andy brought it up as a viewer question.

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Actually, Andy brought it up as a viewer question.

He brought up how they went at Jules ED or that Jules made 3 comments about age/menopause early in the season? Either way, Dorinda was not saying that Jules needed to be coddled/treated more gently because she is younger than the rest. And, it was Carole who said she/Jules were in the same "generation". LOL

[shoegal]

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

He brought up how they went at Jules ED or that Jules made 3 comments about age/menopause early in the season? Either way, Dorinda was not saying that Jules needed to be coddled/treated more gently because she is younger than the rest. And, it was Carole who said she/Jules were in the same "generation". LOL

Andy brought up the menopausal age comments (or shaming if anyone but Jules had said them) that Jules made....which Jules defended by saying they were jokes and Dorinda tried to justify. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by shoegal

[WireWrap]

7 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Andy brought up the menopausal age comments (or shaming if anyone but Jules had said them) that Jules made....which Jules defended by saying they were jokes and Dorinda tried to justify. 

Yes, Jules did call them "jokes" but I'm not sure she wasn't trying to joke around, she does seem to have a rather weird sense of humor after all. LOL That said many here called her out on it when it happened and she did it 2 or 3 times and stopped. Now the weight/ED comments from Bethenny and Carole happened almost every time they were around Jules, including in both of Jules's homes, which was rather nasty IMO.

[breezy424]

When was the part of the reunion that Beth declared on her radio show that she went all 'gangsta'?   Did I miss that?

As far as I can remember Beth didn't declare that John as a cocaine user but she certainly implied it.  Does that make a difference?  Not really.  It's just as damaging.

If Carole has a problem with age shaming then don't make a snarky comment about Ro using a diaphragm.   She's a lot closer in age to Ro than she is to Jules.  To me it seemed like Carole was saying that Ro was sooo old fashioned.  Not 'cool'.

I don't give a **** of what year a person was born and what so called technical 'generation' they were born, the point that Dorinda was making was that, technically, Carole is old enough to be Jules' mother.  Carole 'wants' to be of the same generation as Jules but IMO, she really isn't.  Carole is the one who brought this all up.

I'll say it again.  Jules was wrong with the menopausal 'jokes'.  So was Beth in Turks.  It reminds me of when Tre said, in referring to Kim G (?) who was like 55 at the time, that she respects the elderly.  Give me a break.  I do think Jules learned a lesson in all this.  Carole?  Maybe not so much.

I'm glad this is over.  I hope Tom and Lu find happiness.  Heck, I hope Beth and Dennis Shields find happiness but I'm beginning to believe the bloom is off the rose.  Yeah, I said this but on the other hand, I secretly hope Beth crashes and burns aka reality check..  She's a horrible person.  Who knows.  Carole apparently has five more summers with Adam.  Kind of sad.  Jules looked amazing at the reunion.  I hope she gets back to this healthy state.  Ro and Sonja will always be delusional.  Ro will be ok.  Sonja?  I don't know. 

[film noire]

8 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Carole has ALWAYS been consistent in her disdain of people using age as an insult.

When Reid Drescher called Sonja and Ramona "overweight old ladies gone wild", Carole didn't express disdain, she smiled along with Aviva and Russ.

Quote

 Either way, Dorinda was not saying that Jules needed to be coddled/treated more gently because she is younger than the rest.

Agreed. Dorinda absolutely did not say, imply -- or even hint -- anything like that.  She was responding to Carole's ignorant claim that she and Jules were the same generation.

Edited September 16, 2016 by film noire

[ScoobieDoobs]

6 hours ago, Castina said:

I just checked twitter to see when they filmed the reunion and it was around July 13.  A month after that article I linked.  So when Bethenny pretends it was all news to her at the reunion was that an example of her keeping it real and honest? ;)

Betheliar caught in a lie?  How shocking!

[ScoobieDoobs]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, Jules did call them "jokes" but I'm not sure she wasn't trying to joke around, she does seem to have a rather weird sense of humor after all. LOL That said many here called her out on it when it happened and she did it 2 or 3 times and stopped. Now the weight/ED comments from Bethenny and Carole happened almost every time they were around Jules, including in both of Jules's homes, which was rather nasty IMO.

Jules was not consistent as an effective communicator.  She has been fairly articulate at telling off Bethenny & pointing out how vile & awful she's been toward her this season.  Altho I don't think she did it enough during the season or at this reunion.  Sorry to those sensitive about age comments, but Jules' relatively few comments relating to the ages of the other cast members did not reach anywhere near the level of nastiness & outright cruelty that Bethenny did in pretty much EVERY ep this season in mocking Jules for her ED's.  And of course there was not the slightest bit of awareness or acknowledgement of her cruelty during the season to Jules or Lu (or John or Dorinda or anyone else NOT up her ass), let alone an apology.  Just that bullshit moment when she started to get up when the heat was on her for her relentless, vile, hideous & disgusting cruelty.

Was really bugged watching the rest of them going with an easy-going, casual (if completely phony-baloney & yet kinda sweet) hug at the end, but Bethenny being now too stuck-up & downright nasty to join in.  The woman is horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible . . .

Getting back to Jules, I think Jillzy's take on her was right -- that she just didn't fit in with this group.  Well, Jillzy said it was because of her age.  Not sure I buy that, but she is at a totally different stage than any of them, with her young toddlers.  She didn't seem to have much in common with them.  I still think she was stunt casting by Bethenny.  And Bethenny knew she was gonna zero in on her right away & mock her ED's.  And the marriage in trouble was merely a bonus for her to cruelly dig at.  Why Bethenny would do this is only known to her (and Satan Andy & his minions).  Uh, maybe because she's an awful & cruel & nasty & horrible woman?  Sounds right to me.

[Former Nun]

4 hours ago, ryebread said:

Although, she was once a cheat, too, I think she thought that she and Tom - self described players, were tired of playin' and were going to settle down with just each other. 

I just can't believe this will be permanent.  Once a playah...     As soon as one of them figures out that the other has much less money than expected, all bets are off.

[ryebread]

57 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

I just can't believe this will be permanent.  Once a playah...     As soon as one of them figures out that the other has much less money than expected, all bets are off.

Oh, I completely agree. But I think she had convinced herself (with some help from him) that they were tired of that lifestyle and were were going to ride off together into their monogamous sunset years. They were soulmates who were going to save each other from a player's wretched existence, yo.

And then the cheating happened.

I still don't think there's going to be a wedding.

[mwell345]

The poor thing:

http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/bethenny-frankel-not-in-rhony-season-8-group-hug-explained

"Bethenny previously said she was also physically exhausted by the end of the reunion when she teased the sit-down on her Radio Andy show in August. "I felt disgusting. I felt drained," she said."

Take Dorinda's advice, Bethenny, and look in the mirror.

[janie2002]

I think it could be a good show with Heather , Kristen, Jules, Dorinda, Beth and Carole.  It will move the show towards a different path. We will have women with younger children, married or seriously dating. 

It'd be interesting to see the dynamic of Heather and Beth  with Carole.  Dorinda still playing both sides. Kristen and Jules might be fun in a ditzy way to watch.

[Yours Truly]

15 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Anytime anyone talks about "age", even in general, you can visibly see her back stiffen, become rigid, expecting a dig about the difference between her/Adam. Heck, she even talked about only having "5 good summers left" with Adam herself. And Carole has made "age jokes" herself about the others, so No, she isn't/wasn't some one saying jokes about age are off limits.

As far as Carole/Heather's friendship compared to Carole/Bethenny's friendship, IMO, there is a very big difference. Carole had no problem telling Heather she was wrong, to apologize to someone, to let an argument go but she hasn't gone against Bethenny at all this season, as if she has morphed into a mini Bethenny. I never thought Carole was cold but either I was wrong about her or she is showing me that this is who she really is at her core. I still see peeks at the Carole I like but then she morphs back into that Mini Bethenny that I dislike.

I think Carole's been the same the whole time.

Someone with no backbone. Who follows the lead of whoever she's keeping company with.

Carole acted the way she acted with Heather because Heather was a receptive person. For all of Heather's bossiness, Heather wasn't against receiving criticism from Carole. There was a genuine desire from Heather for feedback from Carole. It was safe to be honest with Heather therefore Carole was. But if Heather was more of a "tell me what I want to hear" type of person and demanded that of the people around her, money bet that Carole wouldn't have been as vocal about her opinions.

Carole can't be her own person. I also don't think her mean girl is only Beth rubbing off on her. I believe 100% that Carole is having a case of "Oh yeah, I have someone who won't crucify me for indulging in the mean girl from time to time and it's delicious" same way with Heather we saw the more calm and collected version of Carole. It seems like Carole can't decide which part of her personality to put forward and instead she uses the personalities around as a decision maker to what we end up seeing.

See the reason why I believe the mean girl shit is a true part of her personality just as much as the calm and collected part is because it has been brought out first by Heather and then by Beth.

With the other ladies like Dorinda (loud, brash), Sonja (sexual, flirty), Lu (aggressive, pretentious) Ramona (manic, bizarre)  she's pretty much the same across the board. Minimal input, is just there. Not very engaged in anything but level interaction. But it's with Heather and Beth that's she's actually involved in interactions, discussions things beyond chit chat or fodder for the show. Why? Because these are the personalities she feels the most at home with...... The personalities she's the most comfortable expressing. And let me tell you she seems hella more animated with her bestie Beth than she ever seems during her "calm and collected" days with Heather. Just sayin'

Edited September 16, 2016 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

6 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Jules was not consistent as an effective communicator.  She has been fairly articulate at telling off Bethenny & pointing out how vile & awful she's been toward her this season.  Altho I don't think she did it enough during the season or at this reunion.  Sorry to those sensitive about age comments, but Jules' relatively few comments relating to the ages of the other cast members did not reach anywhere near the level of nastiness & outright cruelty that Bethenny did in pretty much EVERY ep this season in mocking Jules for her ED's.  And of course there was not the slightest bit of awareness or acknowledgement of her cruelty during the season to Jules or Lu (or John or Dorinda or anyone else NOT up her ass), let alone an apology.  Just that bullshit moment when she started to get up when the heat was on her for her relentless, vile, hideous & disgusting cruelty.

Was really bugged watching the rest of them going with an easy-going, casual (if completely phony-baloney & yet kinda sweet) hug at the end, but Bethenny being now too stuck-up & downright nasty to join in.  The woman is horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible . . .

Getting back to Jules, I think Jillzy's take on her was right -- that she just didn't fit in with this group.  Well, Jillzy said it was because of her age.  Not sure I buy that, but she is at a totally different stage than any of them, with her young toddlers.  She didn't seem to have much in common with them.  I still think she was stunt casting by Bethenny.  And Bethenny knew she was gonna zero in on her right away & mock her ED's.  And the marriage in trouble was merely a bonus for her to cruelly dig at.  Why Bethenny would do this is only known to her (and Satan Andy & his minions).  Uh, maybe because she's an awful & cruel & nasty & horrible woman?  Sounds right to me.

Jules does not communicate well, and doing things to her such as, "I need a verb,", are not helpful but cruel.  One minute Bethenny is making fun of how fast she talks, the next she is mocking her for stuttering.  It does help that Bethenny holds people to a literal standard with their words and yeah she is a wild exaggerator.  I am still perplexed how a spread of food puts Bethenny over the edge.  She acts as if she has never seen one before and Jules and Michael spread was some heinous plot to foil detection of an eating disorder and cause her grievous mental harm.  It is food, when people have company they provide food.  Carole also acted like a complete loon when she questioned Jules and her baggies of snacks.  Has Carole not seen Skinnygirl snacks which a re even tinier amounts of pre-measured food, an energy bar, a one service size of candy or potato chips?  Bethenny and Carole need to get out more.

The hug to me and the final questions was more of a Hail Mary pass, to convince viewers they would be back next year. 

Bethenny ran off Kristen, mother of toddlers, tall beautiful model in her thirties, that was married to a jerk and struggled with everyday chores.  Bethenny has a six year old, a woman with a five and three year old should not be too far off Bethenny's radar.  The major difference being Bethenny only has her daughter half time, freeing her up to see her married boyfriend, and cultivate her brand. Before the end of the season Bethenny was not even acknowledging Jules as a cast member on her radio show.  She would tweet things such as I am the only married woman on the cast.  Really what about Jules?  And of coure Carole followed suit. 

[ryebread]

27 minutes ago, janie2002 said:

I think it could be a good show with Heather , Kristen, Jules, Dorinda, Beth and Carole.  It will move the show towards a different path. We will have women with younger children, married or seriously dating. 

It'd be interesting to see the dynamic of Heather and Beth  with Carole.  Dorinda still playing both sides. Kristen and Jules might be fun in a ditzy way to watch.

The problem I see with the above women returning is that it would turn out to be a fight to see who has the biggest dick between Heather, Beth and Dorinda. 

Then you'd have Carole and Kristen also swinging theirs, because now they have to prove that they aren't pushovers.  Jules would feel the need to prove that she's not dumb.

I don't want to watch women having to prove anything.  Or trying to change our perceptions of what we've seen over several seasons.

I think Bravo has to start fresh.  No franchise has ever done a clean sweep. If there's ever been a need to, it's now.

[teapot]

19 hours ago, Ki-in said:

Carole needs to take a cue from SNL's Sally O'Malley: "Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Sally O'Malley. I'm proud to say that I am 50 years old. I'm not one of those gals who's afraid to tell her real age, and I like to kick!, stretch!, and KICK! I'm 50! 50 years old! 50 years old. Not afraid to hide my age, 50!"

@Ki-in your user name is kind of everything...

[ryebread]

15 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I think Carole's been the same the whole time.

Someone with no backbone. Who follows the lead of whoever she's keeping company with.

Carole acted the way she acted with Heather because Heather was a receptive person. For all of Heather's bossiness, Heather wasn't against receiving criticism from Carole. There was a genuine desire from Heather for feedback from Carole. It was safe to be honest with Heather therefore Carole was. But if Heather was more of a "tell me what I want to hear" type of person and demanded that of the people around her, money bet that Carole wouldn't have been as vocal about her opinions.

Carole can't be her own person. I also don't think her mean girl is only Beth rubbing off on her. I believe 100% that Carole is having a case of "Oh yeah, I have someone who won't crucify me for indulging in the mean girl from time to time and it's delicious" same way with Heather we saw the more calm and collected version of Carole. It seems like Carole can't decide which part of her personality to put forward and instead she uses the personalities around as a decision maker to what we end up seeing.

See the reason why I believe the mean girl shit is a true part of her personality just as much as the calm and collected part is because it has been brought out first by Heather and then by Beth.

With the other ladies like Dorinda (loud, brash), Sonja (sexual, flirty), Lu (aggressive, pretentious) Ramona (manic, bizarre)  she's pretty much the same across the board. Minimal input, is just there. Not very engaged in anything but level interaction. But it's with Heather and Beth that's she's actually involved in interactions, discussions things beyond chit chat or fodder for the show. Why? Because these are the personalities she feels the most at home with...... The personalities she's the most comfortable expressing. And let me tell you she seems hella more animated with her bestie Beth they she ever seems during her "calm and collected" days with Heather. Just sayin'

Yes to all that.  In addition...

Quote

It seems like Carole can't decide which part of her personality to put forward and instead she uses the personalities around as a decision maker to what we end up seeing.

See:  M&Ms and pizza to basil infused quinoa tacos.

[teapot]

17 hours ago, film noire said:

  And the age gap alone makes it clear that Carole could be Jules' mother (a simple fact Carole found insulting, likely due to her current insecurity about her age, however she plays it.)

When I was 40 I got close with a 25-year-old coworker (we bonded over Housewives, actually...) and sometimes we'd talk about bands or technology & just crack up over how much the other didn't understand, and I'd always say "I could have been your Teen Mom!"

[RHJunkie]

Just caught up with Part 3 last night. Bethenny's behaviour is consistently head scratching and lacks such self awareness that there's probably no point in dissecting it but it's so hard because how can someone judge and speak about others when they are exhibiting the same kinds of behaviour or attitude that they are shaming someone else for? This is the same woman that has gone above and beyond to degrade her ex-husband - all for the intent of making herself look as good as possible with zero disregard for the impact it may have on her daughter who will one day be old enough to read and be exposed to the kind of nastiness that her mother has spewed about her father...and a lot of others.

Sonja's breakdown over not being invited to the Berkshires...Sonja has a 'me' complex. Even after she got all dramatic and was convinced to sit back down, she still managed to mention herself when it was others talking about something completely different. I wonder if that resentment toward Dorinda is why she outwardly accused Dorinda of doing drugs.

Many of the women talked about Dorinda being a pot stirrer that always gets away it...did anyone pick up on Ramona stirring at all this season? Her role this season was completely inserting herself into other people's drama and pushing it forward.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

22 hours ago, Kareem said:

My apologies if this has been covered already, still reading the other comments - Bethenny said on WWHL that she had a one hundred something degree fever the day of the Reunion shooting.  I thought maybe that was why she looked like a corpse and was sporting the goat chewed hair.  Maybe it's also why she didn't hop up for the group hug. 

 

21 hours ago, breezy424 said:

It was interesting that Andy brought it up on WWHL.  He asked Kim and Jeff if they noticed that Beth did not get up for the group hug.  Her bestie, Andy, was throwing some shade rather than defending that she had strep and stayed away for that reason. 

I don't buy the 102 fever after two days of antibiotics and,  would think, fever reducing medication.  I realize some will disagree with me on this but Beth is the exaggerator and victim.

Who still has a 102 fever on 48 hours of antibiotics and access to Tylenol?

13 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Thanks Castina, so that makes Bethenny a big fat LIAR.  No way she didn't see this in the news.  So her feigning shock was a misdirection.  I knew there was something off about the SURPRISE Bethenny claimed. 

Lost at sea

Doesn't have parents

Homeless

102 fever.......

[jaync]

Quote

I think the audience is not consistent. They are OK with you doing/saying some things, depending on how they feel about who you are saying it to, and who you are aligned with on the show. 

[njbchlover]

5 hours ago, mwell345 said:

The poor thing:

http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/bethenny-frankel-not-in-rhony-season-8-group-hug-explained

"Bethenny previously said she was also physically exhausted by the end of the reunion when she teased the sit-down on her Radio Andy show in August. "I felt disgusting. I felt drained," she said."

Take Dorinda's advice, Bethenny, and look in the mirror.

I wonder if they all went out for a friendly dinner and drinks afterward, like they did after last season's reunion?  Somehow, I don't think so!   ;-)

[izabella]

Just now, njbchlover said:

I wonder if they all went out for a friendly dinner and drinks afterward, like they did after last season's reunion?  Somehow, I don't think so!   ;-)

Funny you should mention that, because I could have sworn I heard Lu ask at the very, very end, "Now who's coming out to dinner?"

[njbchlover]

5 minutes ago, izabella said:

Funny you should mention that, because I could have sworn I heard Lu ask at the very, very end, "Now who's coming out to dinner?"

See - that is one of the things I really like about Luann.  She, for the most part, is willing to move on from the arguing and fighting.  She apologized to Bethenny for putting out the wrong information regarding Bethenny's relationship, and she is willing to forgive the horrible way Bethenny treated her and the nasty things Bethenny screamed at her (I don't know if I could forgive and forget that easily over that situation).  

Is it because she needs a paycheck, or is it because she is the type to just get over it and move on?  Either way, whatever the reason, she is reasonable and mature.

Bethenny, on the other hand, wouldn't give an inch - she owed Luann a much better apology than the half-assed one she threw Luann in the Berkshires, and it wasn't forthcoming.  Saying that she has her own opinion, and won't apologize for that is childish.  It's okay to have an opinion, but it's not okay to scream it from the rooftops in a tawdry way.  Bethenny could have apologized in a way that would come across as sincere, while still holding on to her opinions.  All Bethenny had to say was "I'm sorry that I snapped and called you such nasty names."  Simple and to the point.

Bethenny is such a narcissist that she will NEVER admit that she is wrong or that she did anything wrong.  She needs to realize this now, otherwise, she is going to be a very lonely woman as she gets older.