The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[Westiepeach]

My FIL passed away last September. I chose not to post it on Facebook because the people that needed to know about it, knew about it. I am not one to post every move I make nor everything that happens to me on SM. Also the same deal when my sweet pup passed in February. The people that needed to know about it knew about it.

[Heathen]

10 hours ago, Jeeves said:

IIRC back in the day I read comments that when the Duggs first hit their teevee fame, Mary and Josh were both "working the phones" to get as many freebies as possible. I assume that was in part "product placement" on the show. I still remember seeing shots of Jana, Jessa and other Duggar daughters, sitting on beds in (I think) the TTH girls' dorm. Using large state of the art Apple MacBook Pro laptops. The Apple logo was prominently displayed. No way in hell Mr. Used-Flip-Flops for his kids, paid the going rate for those!

Those comments were supposedly from locals who knew the Duggars, who also said JB had a habit of stiffing contractors he hired. I wasn't so sure about all that until Joshgate broke and then I decided that yeah, somebody was certainly working the phones to get those nice products comped to the family, and it wouldn't surprise me that Mr. "Buy Used and Save the Difference" would hang on to every nickel when it came to paying people he'd hired to do work for him.

I doubt that Grandma Mary was a saint or a spectacular sinner. May she RIP.

In the Zillion Duggars on the Road special, Jana was shown on the bus using a Motorola Razr phone. That was the elite (read $$$) phone at the time. I suspect that was product placement, too. 

[SabineElisabeth]

19 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I read Amy stopped following Jill, Joy, and Anna on sm.

18 hours ago, Lunera said:

She did, I checked. She also stopped following Si and Lauren. 

18 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

She is currently following JoKen, Jana, and Jessa. I'm surprised that she's not following Jabbie. They have been radio silent.

18 hours ago, Lunera said:

Jinger, Jana, Jessa, and Jeremy. She doesn't follow John and Abbie either, not sure if she ever did.

Edit: did not see Sew Sumis post. I forgot to check Joe and Kendra.

Joy's post seemed fine to me. Maybe they got into, or something, and Joy took Jill's side.

I wonder if any of them give a flying fuck if Amy is following them on social media?  If I had to guess, it would be that they have exactly zero fucks to give, especially about Amy.

Getting mad and un-following/un-friending people on social media is so juvenile, it cracks me up.  I don't have Instagram, but is it like Facebook in that you aren't notified when someone un-friends/un-follows you?  Given how many followers the Duggars have, how in the world would they even notice one less follower, anyway?  And decently certain they don't monitor their social media accounts regularly to make sure Amy is still present and accounted for.

Hoping that re-directing her grief over Grandma Mary to anger and sanctimony over social media posts at least provides a small reprieve from the pain she's feeling.  I dread losing my grandmother more than anyone else in my life, so I do feel for her.

[DangerousMinds]

28 minutes ago, Aunt Catfish said:

Ding Ding Ding!  We have a winner here!  Since there is no privacy anymore we will be harshly judged no matter what we do.  Being a bit older now, I grew up before we had the double edged sword of Social Media.  I have a feeling you did too.  Maybe JD & A were smart enough to avoid the inevitable piranha type feeding frenzy that would follow any comments they might make.  I'm starting to wonder if some of the clan are wising up and getting good advice (finally) concerning SM activity.  I certainly have no wish to pick on family members who are grieving a sudden unexpected passing of a loved one.  Unfortunately , some in this family make it entirely too easy for the more predatory out there to pick their bones clean.  Someone with a better sense of 21st century social norms would be a great help if if the younger of the clan want to avoid each post becoming the latest faux pas.  Is there a law that says a death in your family requires a testimonial on Facebook or whatever?  Some things can be private........maybe for now.  By the way, I like how you think.  Rant Over!

A death in the family certainly does NOT require that you share with millions of complete strangers.

[Lunera]

[Westiepeach]

29 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

A death in the family certainly does NOT require that you share with millions of complete strangers.

My point exactly! The people that need to know will know. I have a hard time with the “thoughts and prayers” situation. 

[Churchhoney]

39 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

A death in the family certainly does NOT require that you share with millions of complete strangers.

Unfortunately it probably seems to if you've framed your whole life as something to share -- in a cleaned-up form, of course -- with strangers. 

Framing your personal stuff to present to millions of strangers  takes up large chunks of the day for, at least, JB and M, most if not all of the older Duggar daughters, even some of the marryers in who've come to it lately, notably Lauren and Jer. 

And I'll bet many of those even imagine it's their mission as soul-winning Christians. That's certainly the line JB and M have always fallen back on.

And even now, when they seem to be in an especially money-scrounging mode, I expect that's the label most of them put on it to make it palatable to themselves. That's even what Jer told the Roloffs on the podcast about why he overcame his initial reluctance (ha) to have his wedding on television. And that's not even somebody who's spent a whole lifetime looking at it this way. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Churchhoney

[mythoughtis]

8 hours ago, luvmylabs said:

Is it considered poor form NOT to post something on sm when a friend/loved one dies?  Reading all the criticisms, maybe Joe and Abbie decided to keep their grief private.

I would keep mine private... but the dedicated fans of this family whine and complain when they don’t wish each other happy birthday or mother’s day via social media.  They really can’t win for losing in this regard. Because once they do post, their fans and their detractors fight in their comments.   Yet they all remain on social media in order to remain relevant to their fans. 

As for Jer Roloff, social media is now how he and his wife earn their money. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by mythoughtis

[3 is enough]

Given the circumstances of Grandma’s death I am more inclined to cut all of them some slack regarding what they did or didn’t post on SM, with the exception of Lauren who should have known better than to make it about her.

Everyone reacts differently to grief, and even public figures deserve some privacy at some of the worst moments of their lives.

[DangerousMinds]

8 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Given the circumstances of Grandma’s death I am more inclined to cut all of them some slack regarding what they did or didn’t post on SM, with the exception of Lauren who should have known better than to make it about her.

Everyone reacts differently to grief, and even public figures deserve some privacy at some of the worst moments of their lives.

If they want privacy then they need to shut up and get off SM. Done.

[3 is enough]

10 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

If they want privacy then they need to shut up and get off SM. Done.

That is a valid point.  

[Marigold]

1 hour ago, 3 is enough said:

That is a valid point.  

That is true.

They did open themselves up to scrutiny when Jill said "swipe up". 

It's not like someone was following them around trying to get pictures and the Duggars were requesting privacy.  Nope, THEY posted boldly.  They invited the public into their lives at this time.  So...they kinda did ask for people to analyze their posts. 

On these boards, I haven't seen anyone be mean.  Just some discussion and opinion sharing, which they certainly opened themselves up to by posting all these tributes and pictures. Isn't that the purpose of social media?  To be social, share and engage with your readers? 

If they truly wanted privacy, I would understand that and respect it.  Make an announcement and then go dark.  

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, Marigold said:

That is true.

They did open themselves up to scrutiny when Jill said "swipe up". 

It's not like someone was following them around trying to get pictures and the Duggars were requesting privacy.  Nope, THEY posted boldly.  They invited the public into their lives at this time.  So...they kinda did ask for people to analyze their posts. 

On these boards, I haven't seen anyone be mean.  Just some discussion and opinion sharing, which they certainly opened themselves up to by posting all these tributes and pictures. Isn't that the purpose of social media?  To be social, share and engage with your readers? 

If they truly wanted privacy, I would understand that and respect it.  Make an announcement and then go dark.  

Jessa also ended her "heartfelt" public post with "swipe up" and "link in bio."

[Lunera]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

Jessa also ended her "heartfelt" public post with "swipe up" and "link in bio."

I guess people are more upset at Jill because she uses her site to generate hits for money. It looked even worse after her stupid, insensitive Instagram post. 

Jessa hardly ever posts on hers.

[humbleopinion]

 THAT'S Grandma's house?

 Damn, Grandma Mary...you lived large....

[truebluesmoky]

Jessa also made her entire post available just by swiping through multiple photos on that one Instagram post. You didn’t have to go to her site to read it.

[65mickey]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

 THAT'S Grandma's house?

 Damn, Grandma Mary...you lived large....

I had the impression that she moved in with the Duggars after Grandpa died and then she stayed there to cook, clean and babysit. When did she move out? It was mentioned earlier that Mary may have been confused and suffering from dementia. If that's the case she should not have lived alone in a house with a pool. She may not have known how to swim fell in the deep end of the pool.   

[Churchhoney]

12 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I would keep mine private... but the dedicated fans of this family whine and complain when they don’t wish each other happy birthday or mother’s day via social media.  They really can’t win for losing in this regard. Because once they do post, their fans and their detractors fight in their comments.   Yet they all remain on social media in order to remain relevant to their fans. 

As for Jer Roloff, social media is now how he and his wife earn their money. 

They don't realize they're being eaten alive by public expectations. 

[Barb23]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

 THAT'S Grandma's house?

 Damn, Grandma Mary...you lived large....

That is the house we call the "Pool House." It is near the TTH.   IIRC, it was a Duggar flip & has been used by some of the Duggars & possibly others.  I'm thinking Venessa, Jill's midwife mentor lived there. Not sure who owns it but I assumed JB owned it.  Not sure how Mary was involved.  Jill  & Derelict did stay there (like she said)  before & after Danger America.  I think it was a surprise to us that Mary was living there at same time. I think the Smuggs may  also have resided there.  One of the girls stayed there on the night before her wedding. (Possibly Jessa?).

[Churchhoney]

11 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

If they want privacy then they need to shut up and get off SM. Done.

True. But media attention and social-media attention prove addicting to a lot of people who haven't been on them since they were 10. And who don't see their incomes as reliant on them. There are all kinds of people out there telling all about their lives and shaping the telling for their "followers" in crazy ways. 

It's probably too much to ask that people just turn it off when they've been living on (literally and figuratively) media attention since they were young teenagers. Especially now that there seem to be money worries and the tv portion of the media income may be seriously waning. 

Such all-consuming habits are hard to break. 

So, yeah, they should do this. But having fans who hang on your every snapshot is probably not just a habit but more like an actual addiction for many. Some of them would probably need therapy and a 12-step group to quit. And we know that's not going to happen. 

Plus, afterwards they'd need to think in terms of, you know, jobs. That alone probably makes the idea of abandoning their media presence terrifying and unthinkable. 

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

True. But media attention and social-media attention prove addicting to a lot of people who haven't been on them since they were 10. And who don't see their incomes as reliant on them. There are all kinds of people out there telling all about their lives and shaping the telling for their "followers" in crazy ways. 

It's probably too much to ask that people just turn it off when they've been living on (literally and figuratively) media attention since they were young teenagers. Especially now that there seem to be money worries and the tv portion of the media income may be seriously waning. 

Such all-consuming habits are hard to break. 

So, yeah, they should do this. But having fans who hang on your every snapshot is probably not just a habit but more like an actual addiction for many. Some of them would probably need therapy and a 12-step group to quit. And we know that's not going to happen. 

Plus, afterwards they'd need to think in terms of, you know, jobs. That alone probably makes the idea of abandoning their media presence terrifying and unthinkable. 

Also, the Duggarlings have no concept of boundaries.  They have been raised to share everything from the kids tracking Michelle's menstrual cycle to having TV cameras show up at their house to film.  They have never learned how to differentiate between the things they should share to an audience to the stuff best left unmentioned.  They have no clue how to craft a social media presence that can allow them to have a private life off camera.  Most influencers especially the Kardashians understand this.  Of course, in order for the Duggarlings to craft a social media presence would require stuff like self-reflection and actually having a plan.  They are too lazy to sit down to come up with this which is why we see Jill overshare and post pictures of her filthy car.  She wants to come across as a self-depreciating mom looking for help just like all the other moms out there, but fails 99% of the time.  

Then you get the leg-humpers who feel that they are entitled to know everything about their favorite TV/Instagram/etc personalities.  The Duggars especially Jill thrive on that attention and give out personal details that are better left unsaid.  

[GeeGolly]

The Duggars should have put out one statement for themselves as a family and Amy and Deanna should have done the same.

We lost our precious mother and grandmother, Mary Duggar today. We thank-you for allowing us our privacy as we mourn this loss.

However I'm not sure they want to mourn in private. Amy certainly doesn't.

Jill, Jessa, Jing/Jer, Joy, Joe and Amy posted about Grandma Mary's death in the same style they post about everything. Whether tasteless or not they're very consistent in their SM style.

[Temperance]

5 hours ago, 65mickey said:

I had the impression that she moved in with the Duggars after Grandpa died and then she stayed there to cook, clean and babysit. When did she move out? It was mentioned earlier that Mary may have been confused and suffering from dementia. If that's the case she should not have lived alone in a house with a pool. She may not have known how to swim fell in the deep end of the pool.   

So I looked it up their grandfather died in 2009 before Josie was born.  I don't remember if she moved in then. She definitely seemed to be living with them the year Jill and Jessa got married. A year or two later she moved out and there were rumors she was living with Deanna. Not sure how she ended up on her own again. 

As far as I know, she was never diagnosed with dementia. She had two strokes, which could affect her mind. However there is no evidence she wasn't mentally sharp or particularly confused. After the strokes, she was still able to talk and she told Michelle "it could have been so much worse".  She did seem physically weaker and seemed a little frail.

After having two strokes, I'm surprised she was alone or living alone. Technically she could have been living with someone who went out for a little while. It seems likely the noise and confusion of the TTH would have been too much all the time for anyone, let alone someone her age. It's possible JB suggested one of the young married couples live with her for a time, but she may not have wanted to live anyone. She seems to have been sharp enough to be making or involved in making decisions concerning her own care and living arrangements. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

The Duggars should have put out one statement for themselves as a family and Amy and Deanna should have done the same.

We lost our precious mother and grandmother, Mary Duggar today. We thank-you for allowing us our privacy as we mourn this loss.

However I'm not sure they want to mourn in private. Amy certainly doesn't.

Jill, Jessa, Jing/Jer, Joy, Joe and Amy posted about Grandma Mary's death in the same style they post about everything. Whether tasteless or not they're very consistent in their SM style.

The Duggar (including the "rebel Duggar") media manifesto

'If we are aware that a thing will make us look bad, we declare that we -- and God Almighty Himself -- require that it be kept absolutely totally private and under wraps forever.  And, in fact, we may even sue you for tens of millions of dollars if you let it out, even if you do that while performing a social, ethical or legal duty.

"Similar penalties -- or at least social and social-media shunning -- will also be incurred if you release information on the wrong timetable and thereby mess with the build-the-leghumpers'-curiosity game we're playing on social media to get more attention attention attention. (We're looking at you, Seewald family!)

"HOWEVER....If we think a thing doesn't paint us in a bad light but in a good one and, especially if we think it could gain us any amount of admiration, feelings-of-camaraderie, sympathy or even just plain old attention attention attention, we will all race to our social-media accounts and the TeeVee cameras as fast as we can to tease it, announce it, embroider it, trumpet it, exaggerate it, hyperbolize it, strategically lie about it, preach it, condemn others with it, and/or potentially monetize it." 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Churchhoney

[luvmylabs]

20 hours ago, Aunt Catfish said:

Ding Ding Ding!  We have a winner here!  Since there is no privacy anymore we will be harshly judged no matter what we do.  Being a bit older now, I grew up before we had the double edged sword of Social Media.  I have a feeling you did too.  Maybe JD & A were smart enough to avoid the inevitable piranha type feeding frenzy that would follow any comments they might make.  I'm starting to wonder if some of the clan are wising up and getting good advice (finally) concerning SM activity.  I certainly have no wish to pick on family members who are grieving a sudden unexpected passing of a loved one.  Unfortunately , some in this family make it entirely too easy for the more predatory out there to pick their bones clean.  Someone with a better sense of 21st century social norms would be a great help if if the younger of the clan want to avoid each post becoming the latest faux pas.  Is there a law that says a death in your family requires a testimonial on Facebook or whatever?  Some things can be private........maybe for now.  By the way, I like how you think.  Rant Over!

Yeah, no social media in my day.  I prefer privacy.  Once something is out there it's out there forever.

[mynextmistake]

My feelings are entirely with Amy in this situation. People saying we need to cut Jill some slack for her inappropriate emoji post because she was infantilized by her upbringing need to remember that Amy’s upbringing wasn’t wine and roses either, what with her mother filing for restraining orders against her reportedly violent father and all. Plus Amy had no siblings for support and went largely without the material advantages and fawning attention her cousins got after the show started. I think she was genuinely close to Mary and I believe her when she says Mary was like a second mother to her. If I were her and I had seen posts like Jill’s “gramma died, lol” or Lauren’s “this is all about meeeeeeeee” I would have been infuriated. 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

The Duggar (including the "rebel Duggar") media manifesto

'If we are aware that a thing will make us look bad, we declare that we -- and God Almighty Himself -- require that it be kept absolutely totally private and under wraps forever.  And, in fact, we may even sue you for tens of millions of dollars if you let it out, even if you do that while performing a social, ethical or legal duty.

"Similar penalties -- or at least social and social-media shunning -- will also be incurred if you release information on the wrong timetable and thereby mess with the build-the-leghumpers'-curiosity game we're playing on social media to get more attention attention attention. (We're looking at you, Seewald family!)

"HOWEVER....If we think a thing doesn't paint us in a bad light but in a good one and, especially, if we think it could gain us any amount of admiration, feelings-of-camaraderie, sympathy or even just plain old attention attention attention, we will all race to our social-media accounts and the TeeVee cameras as fast as we can to tease it, announce it, embroider it, trumpet it, exaggerate it, preach it, condemn others with it, and potentially monetize it." 

I don't know Churchie. You give them a lot of credit in the brains department. I think they're just going along being Duggars, doing what Duggars do.

JB and Josh thought they were ahead of the TV star thing and now know they were wrong. Jessa, IMO still thinks she is. I believe they continue to wait for some other God gifted opportunities that involves living lazy. If it works, they'll keep at it and if it doesn't they'll wait for God to provide the next thing.

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know Churchie. You give them a lot of credit in the brains department. I think they're just going along being Duggars, doing what Duggars do.

JB and Josh thought they were ahead of the TV star thing and now know they were wrong. Jessa, IMO still thinks she is. I believe they continue to wait for some other God gifted opportunities that involves living lazy. If it works, they'll keep at it and if it doesn't they'll wait for God to provide the next thing.

I think this kind of "media savvy" comes naturally to many members of the human race! 

[Churchhoney]

44 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

My feelings are entirely with Amy in this situation. People saying we need to cut Jill some slack for her inappropriate emoji post because she was infantilized by her upbringing need to remember that Amy’s upbringing wasn’t wine and roses either, what with her mother filing for restraining orders against her reportedly violent father and all. Plus Amy had no siblings for support and went largely without the material advantages and fawning attention her cousins got after the show started. I think she was genuinely close to Mary and I believe her when she says Mary was like a second mother to her. If I were her and I had seen posts like Jill’s “gramma died, lol” or Lauren’s “this is all about meeeeeeeee” I would have been infuriated. 

Actually, I didn't intend to say that Jill should be cut slack because she was infantilized. If it came off that way, I was being unclear.

What I meant to say was that Jill didn't need to be cut slack for anything. I think what she said was 100 percent defensible.

Her particular Christian belief --- and what is certainly Mary's as well -- makes what Jill said not just accurate but a perfectly right thing to say under the circumstances. As far as I know, Christians who firmly believe in the resurrection of the body -- and I'm 100 percent sure that not just Jill but Mary believe/d in this -- consider that the most comforting thing you can possibly say about the death of a believing Christian. She is with the Lord in her renewed body and she is happier than she has ever been. 

After a couple recent deaths in my family, I was assured of this by several people. They intended to be comforting because for them this is the most comforting thought in the world. I don't believe a word of it, but I understood the spirit in which it was intended and I didn't feel critical of them a bit for saying it. And one of the deaths in question was every bit as horrific as Mary's, if not more so.

I was in a devastated state from the horrors the deceased person had gone through, but it never occurred to me for one second to be annoyed at somebody for expressing a belief that they consider a great comfort.  I understood that they meant well, so I think it's simply wrong to criticize someone for "bad taste" when their intentions are good. 

And as for the way Jill articulated what Mary may have been thinking, I find that completely understandable as well.  

I would bet big money that Mary had conversations very similar to the ones Jill invented in her post. After her recent illnesses that left her much more frail than she'd ever imagined, someone who they all describe as an ardent, constant, "soul-winner" almost certainly would have talked longingly and casually about her hopes for the hereafter, I expect. Because I'm sure she felt she had a very personal relationship with Jesus and talked about God and heaven in a personal and casual way.

And the fact that Jill put it in slangy, down-home language, to me simply reflects the fact that both Jill and Mary are and always have been what Michelle describes as "barefoot and backyard people." That's the way Jill talks and it's almost certainly the way Mary talked, too, I imagine. 

So, again, the language isn't the way some would talk. But I don't consider that "'bad taste." It's personal and slangy because these were people who believe they have a personal and slangy relationship with Jesus. And my bet is that Mary had that, just as Jill does. 

I wouldn't put a bunch of emojis in a social-media post about death. But I can't criticize it as anything more than something done by somebody who's clueless about nuances of expression. 

For me, "tacky" and "clueless" are seldom very valid or meaningful criticisms or insults, when you come down to it.

In my opinion, "tacky" and "in bad taste" almost never relate to ethics or morality or ill intentions. They're virtually always just a sign of hamhandedness or ignorance. And they often go along with perfectly good intentions, in my experience, and, to me, that's really the only thing that matters when it comes to how you behave toward others. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by Churchhoney

[BigBingerBro]

With all this talk about social media tackiness I suddenly remembered something.  When they had the funeral for Jubilee, Josh was the only Duggar kid on social media.  He posted some really awful photo (can't remember what) but his text was something along the lines of "Burying my dead Sis" - those may not have been the exact words, but close.  I remember a lot of people commenting how tasteless it was.  Anyone remember that?

[Sew Sumi]

Wow, I had forgotten about that. Talk about tone deaf.

[Zahdii]

He posted a picture on Instagram of the casket at the memorial with the caption: "Just buried my lil sis! She was only 19 weeks old...Not an easy one! God is good!”

[GeeGolly]

24 minutes ago, Zahdii said:

He posted a picture on Instagram of the casket at the memorial with the caption: "Just buried my lil sis! She was only 19 weeks old...Not an easy one! God is good!”

🤬

[galaxychaser]

3 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

My feelings are entirely with Amy in this situation. People saying we need to cut Jill some slack for her inappropriate emoji post because she was infantilized by her upbringing need to remember that Amy’s upbringing wasn’t wine and roses either, what with her mother filing for restraining orders against her reportedly violent father and all. Plus Amy had no siblings for support and went largely without the material advantages and fawning attention her cousins got after the show started. I think she was genuinely close to Mary and I believe her when she says Mary was like a second mother to her. If I were her and I had seen posts like Jill’s “gramma died, lol” or Lauren’s “this is all about meeeeeeeee” I would have been infuriated. 

You forgot Asa. I feel for Amy. Most likely her cousins are freezing her out. 

[galaxygirl76]

1 hour ago, Zahdii said:

He posted a picture on Instagram of the casket at the memorial with the caption: "Just buried my lil sis! She was only 19 weeks old...Not an easy one! God is good!”

Wasn't the casket an ammo box or am I remembering that wrong?

[mimionthebeach]

3 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Wasn't the casket an ammo box or am I remembering that wrong?

You are not wrong.

[truebluesmoky]

This is actually a very sweet post...

[Jynnan tonnix]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

🤬

That's the perfect emoji...

That was from before I started following the Duggars at all (and I only follow them second-hand through this forum anyway). I'm totally at a loss for words at the sheer lack of thought or emotion behind Josh's words.

[JKL845]

Jill has just as much right to grieve and honor her grandmother as she decides to, just as they all do. I only hope they don't let strangers on the internet prod them into hurting family members during this emotional and stressful time.

[lookeyloo]

When people ask me about Jesus I say I am Jewish And he is one of our boys who did good. They are flummoxed. 

[Zella]

33 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

When people ask me about Jesus I say I am Jewish And he is one of our boys who did good. They are flummoxed. 

That is awesome! I've been giggling about that quip for the past ten minutes. 😄

[jcbrown]

56 minutes ago, truebluesmoky said:

This is actually a very sweet post...

No mention of god-bothering! It is sweet, but "Dithy"?

[Lunera]

13 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

"Dithy"?

I know! What a horrible nickname. All the Meredith's I have known were nicknamed Mere.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Lunera

[truebluesmoky]

It’s horrible, but I bet it’s to match “Kynzie.”

[lascuba]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:06 AM, BigBingerBro said:

Yet, at the same time, I wonder if she'll be the one to write the "tell-all" book we've been waiting for?  I wonder if her close relationship with Mary was the main reason she didn't sell out and air the dirty laundry.   She's sitting on a goldmine given the right management.

I think she's most likely to attempt a tell-all, but she probably doesn't have a whole lot to tell. JB and Michelle seem very open with those in their circle--to the point that they thought nothing of having their daughters stand in front of the entire congregation to forgive Josh--but I don't think that openness extends to anyone outside of that circle, including family. Amy clearly didn't know about Josh's actions, for example, and I'm guessing Deanna didn't know either.  For all of Amy's talk of having been close...was it Jinger? Joy?, I'm sure that was only a superficial closeness, both because the Duggar kids don't know how to be emotionally close to anyone and because while they're polite enough to be nice to Amy, they know she's not really one of them and therefore can't be trusted with their secrets. What happens in the TTH stays in the TTH, except for trusted church elders. 

[mynextmistake]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Actually, I didn't intend to say that Jill should be cut slack because she was infantilized. If it came off that way, I was being unclear.

What I meant to say was that Jill didn't need to be cut slack for anything. I think what she said was 100 percent defensible.

Her particular Christian belief --- and what is certainly Mary's as well -- makes what Jill said not just accurate but a perfectly right thing to say under the circumstances. As far as I know, Christians who firmly believe in the resurrection of the body -- and I'm 100 percent sure that not just Jill but Mary believe/d in this -- consider that the most comforting thing you can possibly say about the death of a believing Christian. She is with the Lord in her renewed body and she is happier than she has ever been. 

After a couple recent deaths in my family, I was assured of this by several people. They intended to be comforting because for them this is the most comforting thought in the world. I don't believe a word of it, but I understood the spirit in which it was intended and I didn't feel critical of them a bit for saying it. And one of the deaths in question was every bit as horrific as Mary's, if not more so.

I was in a devastated state from the horrors the deceased person had gone through, but it never occurred to me for one second to be annoyed at somebody for expressing a belief that they consider a great comfort.  I understood that they meant well, so I think it's simply wrong to criticize someone for "bad taste" when their intentions are good. 

And as for the way Jill articulated what Mary may have been thinking, I find that completely understandable as well.  

I would bet big money that Mary had conversations very similar to the ones Jill invented in her post. After her recent illnesses that left her much more frail than she'd ever imagined, someone who they all describe as an ardent, constant, "soul-winner" almost certainly would have talked longingly and casually about her hopes for the hereafter, I expect. Because I'm sure she felt she had a very personal relationship with Jesus and talked about God and heaven in a personal and casual way.

And the fact that Jill put it in slangy, down-home language, to me simply reflects the fact that both Jill and Mary are and always have been what Michelle describes as "barefoot and backyard people." That's the way Jill talks and it's almost certainly the way Mary talked, too, I imagine. 

So, again, the language isn't the way some would talk. But I don't consider that "'bad taste." It's personal and slangy because these were people who believe they have a personal and slangy relationship with Jesus. And my bet is that Mary had that, just as Jill does. 

I wouldn't put a bunch of emojis in a social-media post about death. But I can't criticize it as anything more than something done by somebody who's clueless about nuances of expression. 

For me, "tacky" and "clueless" are seldom very valid or meaningful criticisms or insults, when you come down to it.

In my opinion, "tacky" and "in bad taste" almost never relate to ethics or morality or ill intentions. They're virtually always just a sign of hamhandedness or ignorance. And they often go along with perfectly good intentions, in my experience, and, to me, that's really the only thing that matters when it comes to how you behave toward others. 

I disagree. I don’t think Jill’s intentions were malicious, but I don’t think that fact obviates her responsibility to think about others. Intentions matter, but I think too many people get a pass for bad or poorly-thought-out behavior because they claim not to have had bad intentions. If you knock me down and I break my arm, it doesn’t really matter (except possibly in a legal sense) whether you knocked me down out of spite or carelessness. My arm hurts just as much either way. 

If Grandma Mary’s death had been expected or happened under less awful circumstances, I think Jill’s post would have been defensible. But her grandmother drowned unexpectedly and her body was discovered by a member of the family. It isn’t exactly Advanced Etiquette to realize you shouldn’t be jovial about her death in a social media post you put up *right after she dies* and that others in your family, including the daughter of the woman who found her, are going to see. Jill can feel however she wants, but that doesn’t mean she has to share it with the world. As someone else pointed out above, Jill is 28 years old and a mother of two. She has no excuse to be that clueless about nuances of expression. I can understand why Amy might have been upset. 

[madpsych78]

24 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

I disagree. I don’t think Jill’s intentions were malicious, but I don’t think that fact obviates her responsibility to think about others. Intentions matter, but I think too many people get a pass for bad or poorly-thought-out behavior because they claim not to have had bad intentions. If you knock me down and I break my arm, it doesn’t really matter (except possibly in a legal sense) whether you knocked me down out of spite or carelessness. My arm hurts just as much either way. 

If Grandma Mary’s death had been expected or happened under less awful circumstances, I think Jill’s post would have been defensible. But her grandmother drowned unexpectedly and her body was discovered by a member of the family. It isn’t exactly Advanced Etiquette to realize you shouldn’t be jovial about her death in a social media post you put up *right after she dies* and that others in your family, including the daughter of the woman who found her, are going to see. Jill can feel however she wants, but that doesn’t mean she has to share it with the world. As someone else pointed out above, Jill is 28 years old and a mother of two. She has no excuse to be that clueless about nuances of expression. I can understand why Amy might have been upset. 

Your arm may hurt the same either way, but the presence of intention most definitely does matter in terms of the type of consequence that is doled out, and not just in a legal sense. One may involve punishment, whereas the other may be a teaching moment.

Edited June 16, 2019 by madpsych78

[awaken]

I’m sad that sweet Meredith has the ridiculous sounding nickname Dithy!  

[mynextmistake]

4 hours ago, JKL845 said:

Jill has just as much right to grieve and honor her grandmother as she decides to, just as they all do. I only hope they don't let strangers on the internet prod them into hurting family members during this emotional and stressful time.

1) Too many people think having the right to do something equates to having the right to do something without consequence. Life doesn’t work that way. Of course Jill has the right to grieve however she decides to, including by putting an appallingly inappropriate post on social media. She just shouldn’t be surprised when it makes others angry or upset, and she doesn’t have the right to expect that they won’t also share those feelings on social media.

2) If Jill is letting the opinions of a bunch of strangers on a message board dictate how she behaves toward her family, she needs to get some professional help. 

[JKL845]

19 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

1) Too many people think having the right to do something equates to having the right to do something without consequence. Life doesn’t work that way. Of course Jill has the right to grieve however she decides to, including by putting an appallingly inappropriate post on social media. She just shouldn’t be surprised when it makes others angry or upset, and she doesn’t have the right to expect that they won’t also share those feelings on social media.

2) If Jill is letting the opinions of a bunch of strangers on a message board dictate how she behaves toward her family, she needs to get some professional help. 

1) I never said anything about not having consequences. I don't think Jill is surprised at all.  People get upset over nothing all the time, even things that aren't true. No surprise there. Big deal.

2) Don't think JILL is.