Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[lascuba]

56 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I'm not a Derick-hater either, nor do I lionize him. I see him as a work in progress, and that can be messy. And, just for the record, I realize he - and Jill - hold opinions on religion, society, and politics, that I disagree with (to say the least). If my criteria for being interested in these survivors of a TLC freak show included agreeing with all their beliefs I'd not be here at all. Maybe it's easier for me because I come from a state next door to Arkansas and have a busload (literally) of Southern Baptist relatives. Mainstream and not fundie, but I know not to expect any Duggar or adjacent to be IMO enlightened on this stuff. 

And, they're evangelical Christians. Fundie or mainstream, a bedrock belief of evangelicals is that they have a duty to preach the gospel. They really can't "live and let live" when it comes to religion. They are SUPPOSED to spread the Word and save souls for Jesus. Some of them take it so seriously they are always up in your grill talking about Jesus - even to Daniel in the laundromat to use a famous example. Most of the mainstream ones, in my experience, aren't like that. Which is why they donate to support missionaries - salves their conscience that they aren't personally trying to convert people all the time, by supporting others to do that. (My cynical view, just saying.)

Of course the way Derick "handled" things in his life including his relationship with JB, wasn't ideal. But maybe he did the best he could at the time. TBH I can't imagine a scenario in which breaking away from her parents' control would not be painful and difficult for Jill. With or without a husband at her side, even if the husband was more mature than Derick with a different psychological/emotional makeup. And in that hypothetical case, would such a man be interested in JB or any of his daughters in the first place? I doubt it.

I think Derick fell for JB when he was a lonely guy going through a religious fervor phase, sitting at his laptop in Nepal, with a new accounting degree and a desire to become a Southern Baptist missionary. His dad had died suddenly a few years before and his mother was being treated for cancer. Somehow he fell for JB and dived into the fundie world. I really think he was ignorant of what a fundie world he was getting into when he linked up with JB and then with Jill. I think he saw a big wholesome family with the right kind of religion, and jumped in. For instance, after they married he was still talking about both of them becoming accredited missionaries (with the SBC's international missions board) which turned out not to be possible because he'd badly overestimated Jill's level of education.

Somehow over these turbulent years that followed, Derick and Jill have arrived at a life that seems healthier than what they started with. I don't think I'm being deceived in this opinion by Jill having become a master manipulator of social media. I think they're in a healthier life because a few years ago, Izzy's pics and videos on SM started showing a much more relaxed little kid. Jill and Derick also started looking and acting less tense. If she can fake that, she needs to start professionally making films for big bucks.

 I don't know why it's Derick making those recent SM posts and not Jill. I don't assume it's because she's under his thumb the way she was under JB's. I give her, and Derick, more respect than that. They did issue a joint statement after Josh's conviction, and again I am not going to assume Derick forced Jill to do that. 

But then why is the onus on the rest of us to "live and let live" in regards to people like them? It's condescending to essentially say, "poor dears just don't know any better." Worst yet, it's naive, because while the rest of the world gives them a pass and has infinite patience because  they just "can't" let people live their lives, they are very much taking advantage of that naivete to push more extreme agendas. If they've been taught all their lives that they have to preach their religion to everyone no matter what, well, they need to be disabused of that notion early and often. 

I have the complete opposite experience from you, in that I grew up in communities that were culturally Catholic but not religious. Evangelicals were always rightfully seen as killjoys who want to interfere in people's lives and generally make the world more unpleasant. I can't view their nonsense as harmless. 

4 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Did we ever find out how that relationship actually started? 

Derick contacted JB to be his prayer partner. JB and Michelle are very weirdly open and responsive to stranger that contact them, so JB wrote back and the rest is fundie history. 

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I actually understand why Derick would have been drawn to Jim Bob's world, but the self-serving lies he told on his way out will always make him an untrustworthy little shit weasel to me. 

Right, he's so focused on every way JB wronged him and spends zero time acknowledging his own shittiness. He makes the same excuses for himself that JB does. 

[Minivanessa]

1 minute ago, lascuba said:

But then why is the onus on the rest of us to "live and let live" in regards to people like them? It's condescending to essentially say, "poor dears just don't know any better." Worst yet, it's naive, because while the rest of the world gives them a pass and has infinite patience because  they just "can't" let people live their lives, they are very much taking advantage of that naivete to push more extreme agendas. If they've been taught all their lives that they have to preach their religion to everyone no matter what, well, they need to be disabused of that notion early and often. 

I have the complete opposite experience from you, in that I grew up in communities that were culturally Catholic but not religious. Evangelicals were always rightfully seen as killjoys who want to interfere in people's lives and generally make the world more unpleasant. I can't view their nonsense as harmless. 

I don't recall saying that anybody has to like or tolerate the Duggars. I haven't criticized anyone for their opinions of any of the Duggars, whether it's love or hate, or complained that people haven't been fair in their opinions. I don't know if "the rest of the world gives them a pass and has infinite patience" with them. I'm not that well-informed on how the rest of the world thinks. 

I'm just stating my view of them - which of course everyone is free to ignore, ridicule, or disagree with. It appears to be different from your opinion, and that's cool. Have a nice day.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Right, he's so focused on every way JB wronged him and spends zero time acknowledging his own shittiness. He makes the same excuses for himself that JB does. 

I know people are probably sick of me commenting on it, but his whole "we had a contract until we didn't have a contract" shtick was just too much for me. Also his "TLC fired me--actually I quit." Well, which is it, bitch? He just simply has no credibility to me. 

[Tuxcat]

I suppose some see things one way and some see them the other. That's okay. The reality is that we don't really know anything for sure. I did see Derrick attacking a teenager and another gay couple on social media. I've seen him impose his views and his way on others with very little room to listen and consider other perspectives. I have seen him believe and profess to believe that his way is the only right way. Perhaps I should not factor that in to my analysis. I don't use social media posts/manipulation "look at us, click on us, follow us" posts  and YouTube created/edited/curated videos as tangible evidence in whether a life or wife for that matter is happy.  I can accept that I don't know the inner workings of their relationship. I don't think any of us really do. Only Jill knows if she is fulfilled. Jessa and Jill both have husbands that "allow" them to speak - but that doesn't mean they aren't living in a patriarchal system.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I know people are probably sick of me commenting on it, but his whole "we had a contract until we didn't have a contract" shtick was just too much for me. Also his "TLC fired me--actually I quit." Well, which is it, bitch? He just simply has no credibility to me. 

I still chuckle at him trying to say he has been working since he was 5 and that Jill has more education than her critics.  Dude just does not have it in him to take the L and move on.  The best thing to happen to him these last few years was going back to school and not having the time anymore to be on Twitter.  He needs to start studying for the bar again and get off of social media.

[lascuba]

4 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I don't recall saying that anybody has to like or tolerate the Duggars. I haven't criticized anyone for their opinions of any of the Duggars, whether it's love or hate, or complained that people haven't been fair in their opinions. I don't know if "the rest of the world gives them a pass and has infinite patience" with them. I'm not that well-informed on how the rest of the world thinks. 

I'm just stating my view of them - which of course everyone is free to ignore, ridicule, or disagree with. It appears to be different from your opinion, and that's cool. Have a nice day.

I'm not saying you said that, I'm saying that I disagree with the argument that people should understand that they just "can't live and let live" because of what they've been taught. 

And...I know that you're stating your view of them? And I'm stating mine? I thought that was the point of these forums. Sorry if that offended you.

8 minutes ago, Zella said:

I know people are probably sick of me commenting on it, but his whole "we had a contract until we didn't have a contract" shtick was just too much for me. Also his "TLC fired me--actually I quit." Well, which is it, bitch? He just simply has no credibility to me. 

Even I would give him credit for stating the ways that he's been wrong that isn't just some version of, "I was manipulated by JB." 

[Minivanessa]

6 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I'm not saying you said that, I'm saying that I disagree with the argument that people should understand that they just "can't live and let live" because of what they've been taught. 

And...I know that you're stating your view of them? And I'm stating mine? I thought that was the point of these forums. Sorry if that offended you.

Well, you quoted my post and then replied to it with those comments - so I took your complaints as directed at me. And, no I don't get offended by discussions of the Duggars, so no worries.

[CountryGirl]

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Oh, I'm not saying Derick was a victim of JB. But I do think he came across JB when he (Derick) was vulnerable and susceptible to getting swept up into JB's world, and that JB played him to some degree. Including lies and whatever manipulation would work, because IMO lies and manipulation are part of JB's way of dealing with the world and especially with his family. 

Nodding along to this.  Reaching the age of maturity and inability to be a victim are not mutually exclusive. I think grown adult or not, Derick was vulnerable and trusting of Boob (his one-time spiritual advisor long before he was his FIL). That having said, I won't go so far as to call Derick a victim as I want to be mindful with throwing that around, but it is clear he was taken advantage of. Then you add in the Jill factor, who was absolutely a victim and would be under Boob's thumb to this very day if she and Derick hadn't seen the light and distanced themselves.

I can still be pissed at him for some of the absolutely wrong things he has said in the past but also keep an open mind where his growth and Jill's and anyone else's that came from the Cult of Toxicity are concerned. I mean, I would be a hypocrite if I held others to their words and actions of their past and not cared a tinker's dam if they have taken actions to grown and change and maybe find some redemption as I have said and done some things that I absolutely regret and have remorse for (some as part of my own healing as a CSA survivor). Now, there are some actions and some people (looking at you, inmate) that I don't know if I believe can ever truly be redeemed, but ultimately, that's not up to me to determine but a higher power (which I know MMV there). 

[Tikichick]

Personally I've always looked at much of what Derrick spewed previously in regards to leaving the show as part of lashing out like the proverbial woman scorned due to his painful disillusionment about his relationship with JB.   I actually suspect it meant something very deep to Derrick and he was absolutely thrown for a complete loop when it was destroyed.

Having an opinion about why he might have lashed out is different from seeing him as a victim, thinking it redeems his horrible viewpoints or being his fan.   Mostly because he's a parent of two young and impressionable kids I hold out hope that Derrick has grown up and away from some of the hideous comments he's made about various things. 

[Vikitty]

I was surprised when Jill and Derick said they would use the preferred pronouns if they knew someone was trans. I mean, it's the BARE FUCKING MINIMUM if you're transphobic, but... baby fucking steps. 

[MMEButterfly]

5 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

The whole headship thing. This is why I am not supportive of Derrick. I would be much more in favor of Jill doing the speaking - on her own behalf. Jill seems to have transferred from one highly opinionated, judgmental and controlling person to another highly opinionated, judgmental and controlling person. Just because Derrick is right about JB doesn't mean that he is handling the dynamics properly and in the best interest of his family.  Jill is stuck in the middle - fairly silent - separate from people she once did love. Going from one "this is the right way to live" to another "this is the right way to live." Is she pursuing what she wants in life? Or what Derrick wants?  Great, public school in Arkansas. Okay a win maybe? But is that all we have to go on? I don't excuse past deeply prejudicial and problematic behavior just because someone posts on social media about JB.  What happens if Izzy is gay?  While I agree with Derrick's views on JB, I don't agree with his continued judgment and patriarchal mentality nor do I agree with his desire to use social media to deepen Jill's divide. But I would be all for Jill doing it.

 

He was 25 when they married. Though lied to and perhaps not savvy enough to read the contracts, I wouldn't equate what happened to him with what happened to the girls. 

The fact Jill (probably) wanted Derrick to speak for her isn't necessarily a matter of his exerting headship. When I was Jill's age and was victim of criminal behavior (no physical damage to me), I was happy to have my husband handle the situation. I was pregnant at the time and shaken by the incident. As it happens my husband was already a practicing lawyer and an assistant DA, that helped even more. In this case, I don't see blaming Derrick nor Jill for how this played out. 

[jschoolgirl]

7 minutes ago, Valerie said:

I was surprised when Jill and Derick said they would use the preferred pronouns if they knew someone was trans. I mean, it's the BARE FUCKING MINIMUM if you're transphobic, but... baby fucking steps. 

When and where did they say this?

[Vikitty]

6 minutes ago, jschoolgirl said:

When and where did they say this?

It was one of the videos on their YouTube channel. I think one of the Q&A ones.

At 17:15. Like I said, tiny baby steps. Having the decency to at least respect someone's pronouns is a lot more than many others would do.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Valerie

[Tuxcat]

27 minutes ago, MMEButterfly said:

The fact Jill (probably) wanted Derrick to speak for her isn't necessarily a matter of his exerting headship. When I was Jill's age and was victim of criminal behavior (no physical damage to me), I was happy to have my husband handle the situation. I was pregnant at the time and shaken by the incident. As it happens my husband was already a practicing lawyer and an assistant DA, that helped even more. In this case, I don't see blaming Derrick nor Jill for how this played out. 

Issue a statement. Post an essay. Support your position. Yes of course. Be a needling, jabbing, ranting cryptic social media gnat that never stops pecking away at their enemy-  who happens to now be your father and mother? I don't really see her directing that but again, my interpretation is based upon the past Derrick. If she's all for it - so be it. No idea.

[Lady Whistleup]

I think there's a particularly toxic aspect of social media nowadays that thinks that people are incapable of change and must be canceled forever after one transgression. Thus, you have people harassing and sending death threats to 15 year old figure skaters for things they supposedly said or didn't say and thinking that's okay.

I prefer to see the changes Jill has made to make her OWN life better and be happy for her instead of harping on something she said 5 or 10 years ago. Derick too.

I know she and I will probably never agree politically, or about religion. That's okay. She's taking steps to make her own life better.

I also don't think people who like Jill should be bullied in this forum. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[MsJamieDornan]

10 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I'm just stating my view of them - which of course everyone is free to ignore, ridicule, or disagree with. It appears to be different from your opinion, and that's cool. Have a nice day.

I think you have very intelligent views and opinions, well thought out. Thank you

[Suzn]

In a time when things are increasingly polarized, this and other Duggar forums seem to be becoming more polarized.  For my mental health, I think I may have to take a break from reading here, much less posting anything.

[Tuxcat]

5 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Homeschooling, eschewing birth control, long hair and long skirts for women, not watching TV or listening to secular music, running your own business and attending only home churches aren’t just cosmetic aspects of Gothardism, they’re fundamental tenets

From what I have seen many of the Duggar girls are evolving away from these tenets- not just Jill. Even Jana is wearing pants these days. Mind bend exercise purely to help me frame my own mind- what is the difference between Jeremy/Jinger and Derrick/Jill?   

[emmawoodhouse]

Two hours between CA and AR. 

[Snow Fairy]

1 hour ago, Tuxcat said:

Mind bend exercise purely to help me frame my own mind- what is the difference between Jeremy/Jinger and Derrick/Jill?   

For me, Jinger is just Jeremy's figure. We don't see her doing something remotely interesting, and it's all about Jeremy.

Jill has her own voice and her own things

[GeeGolly]

If we look at the Bates family, their daughters came out of the gates swinging. It didn't take much at all for most of them to drop many of the Gothardisms, and actually, even though Gil is still very much a part of it all, he and Kelly seemed to have left some of the bullshit behind too.

And then there's Jinger - she wears pants/shorts, she cuts her hair and she practiced(es) birth control.

The only real difference I see between Jill and Jinger and the Bates sisters is Jill has a husband who doesn't like JB.

[lascuba]

Good grief, they said they'd use a Trans person's pronouns if they were in a Trans person's home. That's not baby steps towards anything except making themselves look better while not actually changing anything.

[GeeGolly]

So Derick says he won't misgender someone in their house, and Jill follows it up with saying they'll "still use their voice" in the appropriate setting. Is the appropriate setting on IG?

And isn't that like saying, I have gay friends, but I think bakeries and clerk's offices should be able to deny them services?

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

So Derick says he won't misgender someone in their house, and Jill follows it up with saying they'll "still use their voice" in the appropriate setting. Is the appropriate setting on IG?

And isn't that like saying, I have gay friends, but I think bakeries and clerk's offices should be able to deny them services?

I agree, the statement made by Derick and Jill was very limited, to the point that it was meaningless.  How often do we expect them to visit the home of a transgendered person?  When would that happen in the context of their lives at this point?  That's the only instance in which they will use that person's preferred pronouns.  We already know, based on his social media comments on Jazz, that Derick doesn't extend that courtesy to online discussion of a transgendered teen.

[Tuxcat]

5 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

For me, Jinger is just Jeremy's figure. We don't see her doing something remotely interesting, and it's all about Jeremy.

Jill has her own voice and her own things

Not trying to be contrary but what are the own things that Jill has? Both girls are selling things, promoting things - doing the influencer thing. Both went blonde and way outside the fundie circle in terms of dress/style, activities. Jinger co-wrote a book, serves as ambassador for her mother in law's organizations, raising two daughters and made the conscious decision to not sell her children on social media. How is Jill different (other than using Sam to sell cereal)? Shopping at Amy's? or because she said she wants "safe and healthy boundaries." She herself is not the one on twitter blasting Jim Bob. There really is no difference that I can see other than people just really enjoy Derrick's feuding because his target at the moment is her father. What's interesting to me is that the fire/fury/outrage he spews at Jim Bob currently is the same tone he used against transgender and homosexual families - people he had never even met.

[Boston]

How, in the name of God, can only 1 (ok maybe 2) people in this family of 19 kids have a brain.  I'm talking, Jill (I know some people don't like her but she has at LEAST made her own family and seem to be doing good).  Also the dining room table didn't help. 

[Vikitty]

I'm not a Jill lover or a Derick lover by any means... I'm also part of the LGBTQA+ community. I don't think Derick saying he would use the right pronouns excuses anyone -- it was just something significant enough that I noticed, because more often than not when it comes to TERFs and transphobes they can't even do that.

Even if Jill and Derick don't agree or approve, using someone's pronouns validates their identity. 

I agree the chances of them having a trans friend to put this into practice is probably slim to none. Sorry that my observation derailed the conversation so wildly.

[Future Cat Lady]

I think Jill & Jinger have changed a lot since they got married because they left most of the Gothard stuff behind. They've move away from their parents's type of religion.

The only reason that happened is because they married guys who were not into Gothard.

IMHO, I don't think Derrick has changed at all, he's just the very religious conservative guy he's always been. He may have flirted with the Gothard stuff, but it didn't last long. He's also still yapping about his feud with JB.

 

[Guest]

Please remember that polite disagreement with other posters is fine. However, criticism of fellow posters is not.  Nor is making generalized statements about people who like/dislike/are neutral about the Dillards.

[Cinnabon]

Cathy has weighed in.

Fans and critics believe that Jim Bob has raised his 19 children in a way that they must depend on him to live their lives. Cathy, on the other hand, has shared that she raised her kids differently so they can be “independent, responsible men.”

 

https://www.tvshowsace.com/2021/12/15/derick-dillard-mom-pops-off-jim-bob-duggar-ben-seewald/

 

[lascuba]

So responsible that one of them saw JB on tv and thought, "That looks like someone I'd like to emulate!"

Ok, Cathy.

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, lascuba said:

So responsible that one of them saw JB on tv and thought, "That looks like someone I'd like to emulate!"

Ok, Cathy.

They definitely didn’t do enough research!

[GeeGolly]

My son is so mature and responsible, I needed to write an FB post defending him. 🤣👶🏽

[Zella]

Man, this week, we have messy bitches coming out of the woodworks, left and right. 😂

 

[Nysha]

I like that Derick emotionally supports his wife, lets her speak in their Q & As and probably everywhere else, and that he got a real degree in something besides religious studies. I don't agree with his religion, his stance on the LGBTQA+ community, or probably his politics. I also think he's thin-skinned, a liar, and a bully.  I find it possible for me to appreciate the probability that he is a better husband than Ben & Jeremy and he has helped Jill heal and grow. It's easy to feel he's a better person because the Duggar standard is so low yet Ben & Jeremy don't pass that bar.

As for Jill, I think she has changed tremendously in her personal attitude and outlook. Her beliefs have relax a teensy-tiny bit, going from full in Gothardism to conservative Southern Baptist. Hopefully that will continue to evolve in a positive direction.

[Turquoise]

23 minutes ago, Zella said:

Man, this week, we have messy bitches coming out of the woodworks, left and right. 😂

 

It feels like there should be some sort of Messy Award. I vote for a pie made by Sharon.

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, Turquoise said:

It feels like there should be some sort of Messy Award. I vote for a pie made by Sharon.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

May the odds ever be in your favor, messy bitches of the Duggarverse! 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

58 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

My son is so mature and responsible, I needed to write an FB post defending him. 🤣👶🏽

At least she tried to defend him, unlike mother of the year MEShelle. I bet Cathy would be in court to support either of her sons if they were ever defendants.

[Zella]

25 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

At least she tried to defend him, unlike mother of the year MEShelle. I bet Cathy would be in court to support either of her sons if they were ever defendants.

Honestly, I don't think showing up to support your kid in court is necessarily a sign of a good or involved parent. I think it can just as easily be the actions of an enabler. 

I think it was hypocritical of Michelle and Jim Bob to apparently still think Josh was innocent and not show up, but I think on the grand scale of shitty things they've done as parents, it's pretty small. I also wouldn't blame a parent for not showing up to support a kid they knew was guilty of something incredibly heinous.

This isn't actually a comment on Cathy as a parent--I think, for whatever her other issues are, that she does have a good relationship with her sons and is probably generally supportive of them. I just don't think showing up in court for your kid is an action that inherently means anything good or bad. It's very situational. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

7 minutes ago, Zella said:

Honestly, I don't think showing up to support your kid in court is necessarily a sign of a good or involved parent. I think it can just as easily be the actions of an enabler. 

I think it was hypocritical of Michelle and Jim Bob to apparently still think Josh was innocent and not show up, but I think on the grand scale of shitty things they've done as parents, it's pretty small. I also wouldn't blame a parent for not showing up to support a kid they knew was guilty of something incredibly heinous.

This isn't actually a comment on Cathy as a parent--I think, for whatever her other issues are, that she does have a good relationship with her sons and is probably generally supportive of them. I just don't think showing up in court for your kid is an action that inherently means anything good or bad. It's very situational. 

IDK, the fact that Michelle wasn’t there even one day to support Josh (even if she thinks he’s guilty), and none of Anna’s big family showed up to support her is just cruel and uncaring to me.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

IDK, the fact that Michelle wasn’t there even one day to support Josh (even if she thinks he’s guilty), and none of Anna’s big family showed up to support her is just cruel and uncaring to me.

Speaking for myself, if I had a relative accused of what Josh was accused of and I believed he was guilty and his idiot wife kept supporting him through it, I probably wouldn't show up for him or her either. 🤷‍♀️

Edited to add: And this board tore into pretty much every relative who did show up, seeing attendance automatically as a sign of support for Josh's innocence. I don't blame someone for not wanting to wade into that anymore than I don't blame the ones who went because they genuinely wanted to hear the evidence for themselves. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

Just now, Zella said:

Speaking for myself, if I had a relative accused of what Josh was accused of, I probably wouldn't show up either. 🤷‍♀️

I might just to find out what really happened. But I’m thinking mothers here - hasn’t Josh always been Michelle’s favorite? I know my mom would show up even if I were a serial killer. Maybe not every day, but at least one day. And IMo there is no excuse for Anna’s own mom not being there. At least one of her sisters has money, and could have paid for her transportation to get there. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I might just to find out what really happened. But I’m thinking mothers here - hasn’t Josh always been Michelle’s favorite? I know my mom would show up even if I were a serial killer. Maybe not every day, but at least one day. And IMo there is no excuse for Anna’s own mom not being there. At least one of her sisters has money, and could have paid for her transportation to get there. 

Maybe I just have a weird family dynamic, but I wouldn't expect my family to show up and support me in that situation and would be kind of offended if they expected me to do so for them. So, I have a hard time judging the relatives who opted out. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Nysha]

16 minutes ago, Zella said:

Speaking for myself, if I had a relative accused of what Josh was accused of and I believed he was guilty and his idiot wife kept supporting him through it, I probably wouldn't show up for him or her either. 🤷‍♀️

Except that his parents, at least, pretty much claimed he was innocent. JB did show up, but he was too much of a coward to do so in the beginning when he would have heard exactly what his favorite golden child pervert was downloading.

I think that Anna wouldn't want her family around unless they whole-heartedly agreed that Josh was totally innocent and being framed. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Nysha

[IndianPaintbrush]

The media attention had to have been a factor for some folks. It's valid not to want your photograph taken at a high-profile trial, and there are other ways to show support for Anna - such as babysitting her kids. 🙄

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Except that his parents, at least, pretty much claimed he was innocent. JB did show up, but he was too much of a coward to do so in the beginning when he would have heard exactly what his favorite golden child pervert was downloading.

Right as I said earlier, it was hypocritical. But I honestly think there are much worse things that Jim Bob and Michelle have done as a parent, and I feel like a lot of the relatives are in a damned if you do/damned if you don't position if they attended, regardless of how they feel about Josh's guilt or innocence. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Zella

[Cinnabon]

20 minutes ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

The media attention had to have been a factor for some folks. It's valid not to want your photograph taken at a high-profile trial, and there are other ways to show support for Anna - such as babysitting her kids. 🙄

I doubt Anna’s mother cares about that, but who knows?

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

My son is so mature and responsible, I needed to write an FB post defending him. 🤣👶🏽

"Did I mention i have cancer? That I'm adopted? Because I am."

[GeeGolly]

Regarding Cathy's post. Other than the one year at Walmart hasn't Derick been living off Jill? I know they grifted some funds and Derick did a short Grub Hub stint, but other than that its been TLC/JB.

The guy who once posted he's been working since age 5, the independent 32 year old son of Cathy, the father of two, hasn't had a full time job since his first child was born.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Regarding Cathy's post. Other than the one year at Walmart hasn't Derick been living off Jill? I know they grifted some funds and Derick did a short Grub Hub stint, but other than that its been TLC/JB.

The guy who once posted he's been working since age 5, the independent 32 year old son of Cathy, the father of two, hasn't had a full time job since his first child was born.

To me and my belief system, Derrick and Jill are married- they choose as adults to financially, emotionally, physically support each other. They are supposed to "live off of each other" according to their agreement to get married.

That is a very different thing than an abled bodied non disabled adult choosing to mooch off of the elders (parents, in laws, aunts/uncles, grandparents etc). If a married couple decides between them how to support themselves (one person work, one stay home etc etc) that is fine and living independently as a couple. Involving other people who did not choose to be in the marriage is a different kettle of fish.

But my belief system is way different than Cathy's, although she has worked outside of the home for wages in both her marriages.