Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[SMama]

14 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Sign language is a very good idea I hadn't even thought about.   I agree I don't see Joy and Austin being very open to the idea or the effort.   I am hopeful they will seek out professional intervention because it will be important that he be able to flourish in his speech and communication with those around him throughout his life.  

I forgot to mention that SGirl also attended speech therapy. SL simply helps with the frustration while the child learns to communicate effectively. There is no substitute for early professional intervention. Another plus, when in a crowd, no need to raise your voice. I feel so bad for Giddy because he seems so delayed, he’s unintelligible.  

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, Heathen said:

Lots of kids have sugar-packed birthdays, or even more frequent days like that, and they manage to survive grade school with teeth and without diabetes. 

 

I sure did, and never even had a cavity or diabetes. 

[SMama]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

And Bin’s mom has gone batshit crazy on her social media, posting insane anti-vax lies and right wing propaganda.

Great, neglected, uneducated, and unvaccinated. What else can happen to those innocent kids? Another plus of Israel attending school is he will need to be vaccinated. Go Israel!

Edited April 7, 2021 by SMama

[BigBingerBro]

I see they still hae that gross plastic yellow bib hanging around.  I guess Sam still uses it on occasion

[Spazamanaz]

9 minutes ago, SMama said:

Sign language worked so well with my kids. My son had a speech delay and was indeed frustrated, acting out. Once the sign language was started his behavior changed significantly. It made speech therapy a breeze.  SGirl came home at 16 months old and had only heard Chinese her short life. We started sign language right after we met. Her first sign was more, and my eyes started leaking profusely. I regret dropping sign language with both. But being bilingual it seemed too much to add a third language. I wish they had that skill now. I can’t see Joy and Austin spending the time to get Gideon evaluated or trying sign language. Although the Little Rock appointment for Evy’s head bump gives me a smidge of hope. BTW, my adult son and SGirl still remember most of the signs. 

Sign language helped my son as well. My son was diagnosed with severe speech delays. And like you, I also dropped sign language because my sons speech improved greatly. I also wish I had continued, and I regret my decision. I think it would be good for Henry along with Gideon to learn sign language. 

[crazy8s]

27 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I see they still hae that gross plastic yellow bib hanging around.  I guess Sam still uses it on occasion

I was so happy Izzy wasn't wearing it on his 6th birthday while eating his Lucky Charms

Edited April 7, 2021 by crazy8s

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

I did notice Jill's comment in her post, but to me it just felt like surprise and possibly some new news she decided to include to mark his big day, the fact he's "growing up".   I'm not really sure she has the skillset to pull off a humble brag or be particularly stealthy in quite that way. 

This is how I took it as well.  It's a comment about her growing child on his birthday, what's wrong about it?   Is there something wrong about pencil marks showing a kid's growth on a doorframe?  Lots of people do it.  It's normal, which is an achievement for Jill.  

[cmr2014]

41 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

This is how I took it as well.  It's a comment about her growing child on his birthday, what's wrong about it?   Is there something wrong about pencil marks showing a kid's growth on a doorframe?  Lots of people do it.  It's normal, which is an achievement for Jill.  

It may also be something that Izzy is excited about.

I would guess that this isn't an issue where they are looking at medical records, but that there is a door jamb in Cathy's house where she recorded Derick and Dan's heights on their birthdays. If Izzy is taller than daddy was at 6, that might be really exciting to him.

ETA: Of course they didn't do that at the TTH because there were SO MANY of them (tee hee).

Edited April 7, 2021 by cmr2014
one more thing

[Monkeyrocks]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Yes I do. For two reasons, I see this IRL, and I have no doubt she wouldn't have mentioned anything if his growth chart projection was for him to be shorter. I have never once heard a parent say with pride, "My kid's in the 10th percentile, he/she is going to be short!".

My daughter was under tenth percentile for height, and third percentile for height to weight for YEARS. It wasn’t until she hit puberty that she even got on the chart. It was frequently commented on, by me AND others because, although perfectly healthy, she’s an outlier (I’m 5’9”, the shortest in my family, and a size 12; her dad is taller than me). 

Commenting on a kid’s stature  isn’t necessarily a brag, and it’s especially common to do around a Birthday. Again, maybe this means the kid is getting well-child checkups on a schedule, or maybe he was just measured on a wall (I still do that with my almost 15 year old) and Jill compared how much he grew in the past year, along with comparing it to his relatives. Again, with the Duggars, knowing all the kids’ names was a stretch for the parents; Jill not only know’s his name, she knows his height and how he compares to relatives! It’s those little things that show an involved parent. 

[crazy8s]

I took it he had been for a recent check up and good on them if he has regular medical checkups. First kid and parents brag is normal. we have talked here often enough about how tall Izzy seems for his age.

We surely told people the expected growth rate for our first. Projected 6'4", Taller than his dad and uncle. As an adult he is 5'9" tops. but we surely told people (not a million strangers). Our second was 5th percentile from birth on, we told people our worries (again, not a million strangers)  that child was happy when she got to 5' 1/2" in high school. The same height she is today. but for sure we told people about both and recorded height for both until at least middle school.

to add - the second child was happy on hitting 5' 1/2" because she didn't want her driver's license showing 4' 11"

Edited April 7, 2021 by crazy8s

[BigBingerBro]

I get the whole bragging about kids who are potentially going to be tall, but it irks me a bit as who really cares how tall you are?  There are plenty of sucessful and great short people.

I was a very tall and thin teenager who was constantly told I should be playing basketball.  I hated sports and wished I was short.

[SMama]

1 hour ago, Spazamanaz said:

Sign language helped my son as well. My son was diagnosed with severe speech delays. And like you, I also dropped sign language because my sons speech improved greatly. I also wish I had continued, and I regret my decision. I think it would be good for Henry along with Gideon to learn sign language. 

If they weren’t so cheap, education averse, and insulated this could be easily accomplished. Kids love to learn and do different things. Pay someone fluent in SL to come to the TTH and add it to their “curriculum.” I’m sure all the kids would love it, as my kids received a lot of attention. Parents would ask me if the kids were deaf, no just something for them to learn while they acquired more language. Other kids would ask me to teach them signs. At times much to the chagrin of the parent(s). They are just unwilling to invest in their children’s lives. Ironic since the Duggars use that investing lie so often. Jill after marriage, and Joy after graduating were “investing in their siblings lives.” Bullshit. Looks like Jill is the only one investing in her own children. 
 

ETA: They could find a “sweet friend” to provide this service just for bragging rights about being close to the Duggars.

Edited April 7, 2021 by SMama

[Monkeyrocks]

Just now, SMama said:

If they weren’t so cheap, education averse, and insulated this could be easily accomplished. Kids love to learn and do different things. Pay someone fluent in SL to come to the TTH and add it to their “curriculum.” I’m sure all the kids would love it, as my kids received a lot of attention. Parents would ask me if the kids were deaf, no just something for them to learn while they acquired more language. Other kids would ask me to teach them signs. At times much to the chagrin of the parent(s). They are just unwilling to invest in their children’s lives. Ironic since the Duggars use that investing lie so often. Jill after marriage, and Joy after graduating were “investing in their siblings lives.” Bullshit. Looks like Jill is the only one investing in her own children. 

I don’t know about Arkansas, but, where I live, a local interventionist agency screens kids and provides those who qualify free services in day care/pre school, or in the home if the child doesn’t attend either of those places. They probably don’t even have to pay anyone

[Monkeyrocks]

Oh, and even if Jill is bragging, even if it is something genetic, good for her. I’ve posted pictures of my daughter dressed up and commented on how beautiful she is, which is luck of the draw and a mom’s opinion. I like reading my friends “brags” about their kids. I don’t think it’s irritating unless it becomes excessive. And, honestly? I just find it refreshing to read a brag from a duggar that isn’t about their child having such a humble servant’s heart.   

Edited April 7, 2021 by Monkeyrocks

[GeeGolly]

Wow, I guess I was right. The height thing is definitely a 'me thing'.

[Future Cat Lady]

3 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I was just thinking about this, too, and wondered of Derick had been receiving counseling as well. Whatever it is, I'm glad that they did it and hope that they continue. A couple of years ago, you couldn't have convinced me that they were anything other than miserable, and Izzy looked terrified all the time -- it's just night and day.

I have a feeling that they had couple's counseling. 

[crazy8s]

55 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Wow, I guess I was right. The height thing is definitely a 'me thing'.

I think not so much a me thing - it is just a thing parents do - my kids are in their 30s and their baby books had an "estimate your child's adult height by doubling their height at age 2. with the chart to graph it. My son and daughter in law do a blog for the 4 grands and we get routine height/weight/ percentile updates after appts. because that is how information is given now.

if Izzy is excited he might be taller than dad and Uncle Dan who cares? But it is common for a 6yr old to think about that and be happy about the idea.

Edited April 7, 2021 by crazy8s

[Tikichick]

23 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Wow, I guess I was right. The height thing is definitely a 'me thing'.

And there ain't nothing wrong with that, either.   

I have some good friends I trust to level with me about anything, and I generally am not shy to ask them -- am I crazy or is X and such .....?   (Of course it's very common for me to hear, Tiki, you are crazy.   I've decided I'm finally at a stage in life where I can just embrace it!)   

[coconspirator]

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

It may also be something that Izzy is excited about.

I would guess that this isn't an issue where they are looking at medical records, but that there is a door jamb in Cathy's house where she recorded Derick and Dan's heights on their birthdays. If Izzy is taller than daddy was at 6, that might be really exciting to him.

ETA: Of course they didn't do that at the TTH because there were SO MANY of them (tee hee).

I think it's natural for parents to wonder or make predictions about all kinds of things with their children. Be it their height (" he/she might be taller than their dad/mom") or their interests ("They love science and I can totally see them going into medicine someday") feels very normal. And, like you said, at least with Izzy and Sam they get enough attention from their parents to allow for these little "factoids" to be part of their story. 

[ginger90]

I don’t have an opinion on the sugar one way or another, it’s not my child. However, both Sam and Israel get a “sweet treat” each day, when Israel gets home from school. Candy , not fruit.

 

From Israel’s 5th birthday:

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by ginger90

[SMama]

It’s wonderful to see this thread hot and there’s no pregnancy announcement. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by SMama
Typo, hit and hot not the same 🤗z.

[Chicklet]

Maybe Jill's commenting on Izzy's height is a little slam at the Duggar genes- which produce short balding men. Could happen.

[Heathen]

24 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Maybe Jill's commenting on Izzy's height is a little slam at the Duggar genes- which produce short balding men. Could happen.

Balding and homely, yes, but not all short. Josh is 6' and it looks like a few of the howlers are about the same. I think some of them look shorter because they have shitty posture and wear ill-fitting clothing. Basically, the Duggar males are toads. 

Smuggar only wins the Ugliest Duggar contest because he's a disgusting incestuous predator. Otherwise, Jed! would be giving him a run for his Jim Bob's money. 

 

[cmr2014]

6 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Hopefully you're right.   The new wrinkle with this generation is that Jill, one of their own, is now joining Amy in some of these behaviors, so the threat level may have gone up.

The thing is that Jill and her family seem genuinely happy right now, whereas Amy has always seemed like a bit of a hot mess to me. It's probably a lot easier to feel superior to Amy who is always mooning around the TTH hoping to be on tv.

Now, though, Jill is using birth control, and she's a lot happier than Jessa and Joy. Jill is sending her son to public school and he hasn't grown horns and started talking about how much he loves abortions. Jill is wearing pants and short skirts and she hasn't burst into flames. Jill has taken part in non-Gothard therapy and she hasn't become and atheist. Jill defied JB and J'chelle -- and she's HAPPY!

Despite what they may be saying to each other (and even to themselves), they have to notice. 

 

[Heathen]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

Great, neglected, uneducated, and unvaccinated. What else can happen to those innocent kids? Another plus of Israel attending school is he will need to be vaccinated. Go Israel!

Does Arkansas require vaccinations? If not, it's entirely possible that Israel and Sam might not be vaccinated even for public school. I hope that Jill and Derick would have more sense than that, but you never know. 

 

I know a nurse who is anti-vax. Her entire family is. I also know a PA who thinks the flu vaccine was invented just to make Big Pharma richer. 

[Lady Whistleup]

6 minutes ago, Heathen said:

Does Arkansas require vaccinations? If not, it's entirely possible that Israel and Sam might not be vaccinated even for public school. I hope that Jill and Derick would have more sense than that, but you never know. 

 

I know a nurse who is anti-vax. Her entire family is. I also know a PA who thinks the flu vaccine was invented just to make Big Pharma richer. 

Yes it does. 

Here is a document of the vaccination requirements.

But Jill and Derick said they vaccinate their kids in one of those videos. Jill seems to believe in science except for "old earth." Then she gets pressed and defensive.

[Heathen]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Yes it does. 

Here is a document of the vaccination requirements.

But Jill and Derick said they vaccinate their kids in one of those videos. Jill seems to believe in science except for "old earth." Then she gets pressed and defensive.

Thanks for the info. Maybe the "old earth" thing is something left over from her cretinous parents. 

It's been said before -- who would have thought that Jill the Snitch would be the Duggarling to break out? 

[ginger90]

Last year, in one of their YouTube videos Jill said, “So basically, yes, we do vaccinate our kids, but we do selective and delayed vaccinations”.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by ginger90
Added video.

[SMama]

2 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Last year, in one of their YouTube videos Jill said, “So basically, yes, we do vaccinate our kids, but we do selective and delayed vaccinations,” 

I obviously vaccinated my kids and can’t wait for 14 year old SGirl to get the Fauci Ouchie. What does selective and delayed mean? Sorry about my ignorance on the subject.

[anna0852]

Basically that the kids get all the needed vaccinations but less clustered together and over a longer amount of time.

[sheshark]

Maybe Jill feels no need for the HPV as the boys won’t have sex until marriage.

[Zella]

In regard to vaccinations in Arkansas schools, yes vaccines are required, but parents can file for individual exemptions on the basis of medical, religious, or philosophical reasons.

In the past few years, there has been what I consider an alarming uptick in outbreaks of measles, mumps, and whooping cough in local schools, both urban and rural. 

This is a few years old but is from the state paper of record. https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2015/feb/15/vaccine-exemptions-up-in-nwa-amid-natio/ NWA has the largest number of vaccine exemptions in the state, according to this article, and I assume that is still true. I don't hear as much news from other parts of the state, but I feel like the non-COVID disease outbreaks in schools always seemed to happen around here rather than, say, Little Rock or Fort Smith. My guess is it is a combo of fundie religious types and crunchy hippy types since you get both here. 

It seems like the exemptions wouldn't apply for the Dillards since they said they do vaccinate, but the lack of vaccination would not be a barrier for the others. To be honest, though a lot of the more crazed homeschooler types I know are also antivaxxers (of course not true for all, though the homeschoolers I know who vaccinate tend to be a lot more reasonable about everything in general), their objections to public school cover a lot of other things they are far more vocal about than vaccine requirements. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

Speaking of AR schools, a first grader attending school in Bentonville received three free pair of jeans from Old Navy. As part of a class project, she wrote to them asking for real pockets on girl's jeans. They sent her the jeans - w/pockets- and a thank-you note.

What county does Iz attend school in?

[Zella]

19 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Speaking of AR schools, a first grader attending school in Bentonville received three free pair of jeans from Old Navy. As part of a class project, she wrote to them asking for real pockets on girl's jeans. They sent her the jeans - w/pockets- and a thank-you note.

What county does Iz attend school in?

He's in a Rogers school, so right next door in the same county. 

I always think of Bentonville as the rich school district in NWA. They get lots of Wal-Mart money. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Zella

[Lady Whistleup]

Crunchy granola anti-vaxxers are the WORST. They're usually pretty well-educated and know better than to say Bill Gates is trying to microchip our bodies. They couch their stance in "having a conversation," or "doing research," or "loving and protecting your body against non-natural substances." And my favorite one: "Mother Gaia always wins." 

I think sadly as time goes on Izzy and Sam will be more and more distant from their cousins. Yesterday I noticed that among all the celebrations not a single Duggar came over to drop off a gift. And they don't live far away.

 

[Zella]

16 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think sadly as time goes on Izzy and Sam will be more and more distant from their cousins. Yesterday I noticed that among all the celebrations not a single Duggar came over to drop off a gift. And they don't live far away.

I don't actually find having more distant ties from the Duggars sad, though. I mean, if they're not acknowledging him on his birthday, yes, that's not nice, but I'd venture to guess more distant relations with them might end up being a godsend for Izzy and Sam. 

[emmawoodhouse]

11 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't actually find having more distant ties from the Duggars sad, though. I mean, if they're not acknowledging him on his birthday, yes, that's not nice, but I'd venture to guess more distant relations with them might end up being a godsend for Izzy and Sam. 

I don't think Duggarfam acknowledged Izzy's birthday, but I may have missed it. I'm pretty sure Meech has remembered him in years past.

eta They put something in their stories. It obviously went up quite late in the day, since it's still there. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[awaken]

13 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

That's what I was thinking. Henry may "love" crackers the same way that the denizens of the TTH "love" eating green beans out of the can. When you're hungry, you "love" something to eat.

 

13 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Yeah, I think Henry 'loves' crackers because they're stored someplace where he can get them himself when he's hungry and they fill him up since he cannot depend on his mother and father to provide him with regular, healthy meals

Yes...this was me growing up. I loved certain (horrible, junky) foods because it’s all I knew existed. It sure was a shock to see what friends had at their houses and especially when I went to college. I guess the Duggar kids will likely never experience that reckoning since they’ll never go to a different-thinking friend’s house or college!

[Totally]

14 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Yes I do. For two reasons, I see this IRL, and I have no doubt she wouldn't have mentioned anything if his growth chart projection was for him to be shorter. I have never once heard a parent say with pride, "My kid's in the 10th percentile, he/she is going to be short!".

🤣 I’m lways bragging about how my son is likely to only be as tall as his 148cm mother 

It seems to be the only remarkable thing he got from me, so I proudly own his (lack of) height, I guess I’m in the minority though 
 

[GeeGolly]

58 minutes ago, Totally said:

🤣 I’m lways bragging about how my son is likely to only be as tall as his 148cm mother 

It seems to be the only remarkable thing he got from me, so I proudly own his (lack of) height, I guess I’m in the minority though 
 

Lol. My kids fall in the average/tall and average/short areas, nothing extreme either way. But they grew up with short friends, tall friends, skinny friends and heavier friends. Most parents didn't say much about their kids sizes, but if they did, it was always the parents of the tall kids. You definitely would have been in the minority in my small world.

If height is a big deal to the Dillards, I hope Sammy is equally as tall as Izzy or nearly as tall, so he doesn't think being shorter is inferior.

[ginger90]

[Jynnan tonnix]

45 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Lol. My kids fall in the average/tall and average/short areas, nothing extreme either way. But they grew up with short friends, tall friends, skinny friends and heavier friends. Most parents didn't say much about their kids sizes, but if they did, it was always the parents of the tall kids. You definitely would have been in the minority in my small world.

If height is a big deal to the Dillards, I hope Sammy is equally as tall as Izzy or nearly as tall, so he doesn't think being shorter is inferior.

Percentile range when they are very young is not always a great indicator of how tall they are going to ultimately be anyway. My older son was always quite tall for his age when he was little, but grew up to be of quite average height as an adult (5'8"). My granddaughter, at her 3-year checkup, was in the 77th percentile for height, so who knows where she might grow up to be. My daughter is 5'5". My son-in law 5'7", and his parents are both on the short side. Mr. Jyn and I are both on the lower end of average, as are my parents. His parents were 5'0" and 6'4", so there's really only one place for any height to come from. My younger son is just shy of six feet, though, so there's that. 

I don't really get the sense that Jill and Derick are bragging on Israel's height anyway, so much as reporting on it. He's always sort of been singled out for his size even back when he was the giant white baby in their missionary days, but not really in the sense that that made his any better than the smaller babies. I can imagine that they would probably be more apt to brag on his intelligence than his height - they did post a number of things when he was learning to sound out words a couple of years ago, so I think he may actually be ahead of the curve a bit in that department, and by sending him to school, hopefully they continue to put emphasis on learning.

Sammy will likely not be quite as tall as Iz when they grow up, but unless there is a really big discrepancy there - like Iz being well over six feet tall, and Sam ending up the better part of a foot shorter - I doubt their height will be a major talking point. The biggest thing will be identifying and nurturing their particular talents and interests, and not defaulting to "preacher" as an occupation.

[QuinnInND]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Speaking of AR schools, a first grader attending school in Bentonville received three free pair of jeans from Old Navy. As part of a class project, she wrote to them asking for real pockets on girl's jeans. They sent her the jeans - w/pockets- and a thank-you note.

 

That story was so cool.  Good for her! 

I'm glad Izzy is in real school. I hope Sam will also attend when he's old enough. 

[rue721]

I was the tallest kid in my class most years... until I turned nine and hit puberty! I barely grew after that -- maybe another inch, and then stopped at about ten years old. I'm 5'6.

I think a lot of the time, tall kids are just getting their growth spurts in early, they don't necessarily end up taller or shorter than any other kid.

Also, I'm sorry to say this, but the Dillards are a very homely family. Dan looks weirdly shell-shocked in that picture, too, which probably doesn't help.

Edited April 8, 2021 by rue721

[Tikichick]

14 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

The thing is that Jill and her family seem genuinely happy right now, whereas Amy has always seemed like a bit of a hot mess to me. It's probably a lot easier to feel superior to Amy who is always mooning around the TTH hoping to be on tv.

Now, though, Jill is using birth control, and she's a lot happier than Jessa and Joy. Jill is sending her son to public school and he hasn't grown horns and started talking about how much he loves abortions. Jill is wearing pants and short skirts and she hasn't burst into flames. Jill has taken part in non-Gothard therapy and she hasn't become and atheist. Jill defied JB and J'chelle -- and she's HAPPY!

Despite what they may be saying to each other (and even to themselves), they have to notice. 

 

I agree, that's why I say the threat level may have gone up and they may push Jill further out, in case she taint the herd. 

[Tikichick]

11 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I don't think Duggarfam acknowledged Izzy's birthday, but I may have missed it. I'm pretty sure Meech has remembered him in years past.

eta They put something in their stories. It obviously went up quite late in the day, since it's still there. 

He's already served his purpose for them -- JB gets to crow about grandchildren now outnumbering their biological children and potentially pull out his abacus to calculate just how high the number of his progeny in this generation may reach.

[questionfear]

4 hours ago, ginger90 said:

I'm going to say something nice here...about a Duggar! 

Iz, Sam, and his cousins seem happy here, and I bet this creates the kind of family memories that they look back on fondly. I know as a kid I loved religious holidays because it meant we had extended family come over and it was a chance to see everyone and play. Passover is still my favorite holiday because I associate it with playing with my cousins and having a big happy family party. The photo of Cathy and the boys has that same vibe...I think that's one of the most positive things I've seen come out of Jill's changes. We NEVER see people horsing around, climbing on a grandparent and smiling at the TTH. 

[Heathen]

13 hours ago, Zella said:

In regard to vaccinations in Arkansas schools, yes vaccines are required, but parents can file for individual exemptions on the basis of medical, religious, or philosophical reasons.

So basically, vaccines are "required." I think we've all seen over the last decade or so how many people suddenly develop "religious or philosophical" reasons to not do things that would otherwise be mandatory. 

[Lady Whistleup]

3 minutes ago, Heathen said:

So basically, vaccines are "required." I think we've all seen over the last decade or so how many people suddenly develop "religious or philosophical" reasons to not do things that would otherwise be mandatory. 

I've seen all sorts of FB groups pop up where people find ways to get out of vaccine requirements. One says that you can claim the vaccine will cause a "latrogenic effect." Which is basically "a side effect caused by a doctor's treatment." And as I said, all from people who claim all they want to do is "love Mother Gaia and her gifts" (which apparently include deadly viruses). 

Thankfully Derick doesn't seem to be this particular brand of anti-vax crazy. 

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, Heathen said:

So basically, vaccines are "required." I think we've all seen over the last decade or so how many people suddenly develop "religious or philosophical" reasons to not do things that would otherwise be mandatory. 

My understanding is that over 90% of the schoolkids in Arkansas are vaccinated, but it has dipped below the 95% that is usually recommended. So, it's not a sizeable minority who aren't vaccinating, but there are enough of them that it leads to real-world consequences. From the people I have talked to, if they're not doing it for "religious" reasons or for crunchy reasons, it's usually because they're ignorant and don't really understand how the vaccines work. They're especially frightened by the whole "vaccines = autism" school of thought.

I actually read one of the books in our library that explains vaccines in a nontechnical way a couple of years ago for the sole purpose of being able to argue more intelligently with the antivaxxers I come across. But I'd actually already left the job where I had to deal with those people, so I have had no chance to use it in arguing with people about regular childhood vaccines. It came in handy for arguing with people about COVID vaccines though. LOL