Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[auntieminem]

Some very good points being made. Regarding Derick's publicly saying those things about Jazz parents was that about the same time he was coming down on Jill's parents for exploiting their kids by putting them on TV and forcing the girls to play down the molesting so they could keep the show going.  So his hatefulness may have been partially fueled by the feeling that she was being exploited by her parents (that still doesn't make it right). I know I had mixed feelings about that show because Jazz was so young and at a tough age so though it seemed good for people to get a better understanding of transgender kids, was it really in her best interest? I hope so. It will be interesting if Derick really does go into law helping people who do not have good equal access to the law and justice.  If he does you know he is going to come into contact with a wide variety of people including LBGTQ.  Though maybe what that means to him is helping the "unborn".  Time will tell.  This talk about change makes me think of a really nice woman who was my Sunday School teacher and I knew her for years, very conservative, wore dresses only. She never had kids but ended up raising her niece who got pregnant and she then helped raise her daughter.  The granddaughter in her teens said she was gay but eventually transitioned into a male and married a woman. This very conservative woman would have been clutching her pearls about someone else in the church doing this but she seems to deal with him fine and he is now a preacher as well. Who knows she may still judge others for that but I know I was shocked by her acceptance. 

[GeeGolly]

I think the way it went down was when Derick was attacking Jazz, TLC and Jazz's parents, followers called him out on his hypocrisy, saying he also put his children on TV. Derick grabbed that and then started talking shit about JB. Derick changes his stories so often, to the point of contradicting himself, and gives roundabout responses when he's caught in his lies.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by GeeGolly

[Zella]

40 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think the way it went down was when Derick was attacking Jazz, TLC and Jazz's parents, followers called him out on his hypocrisy, saying he also put his children on TV. Derick grabbed that and then started talking shit about JB. Derick changes his stories so often, to the point of contradicting himself, and gives roundabout responses when he's caught in his lies.

 

He's a real little weasel like that. When someone mentioned on here that he was evasive on the law he intended to practice, all I could think was "Derick, the Great Evader" because that's been his MO for a long time. 

[Genevrier]

On 9/16/2020 at 10:36 AM, lascuba said:

Hamilton--the musical with the line "Immigrants! We get the job done"--on Broadway and was famously booed by the audience, prompting cast members to make a statement on stage about their support for immigration

This is not something that ever happened.
 

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, Genevrier said:

This is not something that ever happened.
 

ok

[crazy8s]

On 9/16/2020 at 10:36 AM, lascuba said:

Look at the certain political figure who went to see Hamilton--the musical with the line "Immigrants! We get the job done"--on Broadway and was famously booed by the audience, prompting cast members to make a statement on stage about their support for immigration.

well sort of happened - political figure was both cheered and booed by the audience, upon entering. which had nothing to do with the actors making an impassioned statement to the person to represent all people in the US after the show was over. NYT has the article, ,but it would violate the non politics policy to post here

Edited September 19, 2020 by crazy8s

[BigBingerBro]

[emma675]

Jill really does have great hair, I'm jealous. And look at that tight shirt showing off her boobs a bit. Jim Blob would be horrified. Get it, girl!

Edited September 19, 2020 by emma675d

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, emma675 said:

Jill really does have great hair, I'm jealous. And look at that tight shirt showing off her boobs a bit. Jim Blob would be horrified. Get it, girl!

I almost thought it was Amy until I saw the OSU shirt. I'm not used to normal-looking Duggars.

[Churchhoney]

On 9/18/2020 at 4:46 PM, Zella said:

He's a real little weasel like that. When someone mentioned on here that he was evasive on the law he intended to practice, all I could think was "Derick, the Great Evader" because that's been his MO for a long time. 

Some lawyers make very good livings mainly by being evasive, of course. ....

Doubt that Der will be able to pull that off. But if he wants to really work at it, it's a career path that's probably available for him. 😁

[JoanArc]

From Muffy to Milfy.

[emmawoodhouse]

She got a real cut with layers at a real salon! It was a date day (kids with Cathy), also going to Buffalo Wild Wings to watch the game. 

[Zella]

26 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Some lawyers make very good livings mainly by being evasive, of course. ....

Doubt that Der will be able to pull that off. But if he wants to really work at it, it's a career path that's probably available for him. 😁

I could totally see him thinking he's going to be Perry Mason or Ben Matlock . . . and being more Charlie Kelly. 

To be fair to Derick, he is more articulate than Charlie, but I think he's nowhere near as clever or witty as he thinks he is, and I would actually pay good money to watch him have his ass handed to him in court. 

[Churchhoney]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

Ir as clever or witty as he thinks he is, 

To be fair to the Duggar adjacents generally (not sure why I'm doing that, but still..), I expect their tendencies to overestimate themselves in these areas are exacerbated by always being able to look to Duggars for comparison. 😁

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

To be fair to the Duggar adjacents generally (not sure why I'm doing that, but still..), I expect their tendencies to overestimate themselves in these areas are exacerbated by always being able to look to Duggars for comparison. 😁

I suspect he and several of the in-laws feel like that. I get the impression even some of the less snobby in-laws are still taken aback once they get in the family. I've talked about this before, but during the one marriage retreat episode, Kendra, Abbie, and Ben both looked positively shell-shocked talking about the Duggar lack of schedule tendency. (I bet if Jill and Derick had been there, he probably would have had a similar comment.) I'd venture there's a whole realm of things where even the spouses who had somewhat similar upbringings are still like, "wait! what?!" 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Zella

[satrunrose]

Talking about how good a person the Duggars are always trips me up. By my usual yardstick - do you try to treat all humans regardless of race, class, religion, origin, sexual orientation, gender and gender identity as a person deserving of respect and kindness?- I suspect the whole lot of them fail. For some we have proof: Michelle and the robo call, Derrick and Jazz, Jeremy and social justice, JD and the medicorps fiasco, Jessa and Ben's early social media posts, Josh in general. For others, no proof but we know that they are still fully enmeshed with a religion that paints me as a slut for being a single professional woman who lives in my own home and wears pants. This covers Joe, Joy, Jana and all of the older howlers. 

So I made a new Duggar yardstick that starts with 1- how happy do they seem (winners Joy and JD, Losers Siah, at least pre-Bella, and Jessa) 2- Do their children seem happy and well cared for? (In this, I think they've all done better than their blanket training parents, although I worry about the M-kids and Felicity because they're such obvious props) and 3- Do they mostly avoid spewing hatred about marginalized groups? 4- Are they showing signs of making a life on their own terms and not staying 100% financially and philosophically dependent on JB? By this measurement, yes Jill is the Duggar that gives me the most cause for optimism and I really hope she keeps developing and moving to a kinder more accepting place than the one she grew up in. 

[DangerousMinds]

I hope this isn’t too political, but Jill retweeted this! Go, Jill! Yay!

 

 

[anna0852]

Dang Jill. I know a retweet isn't the same as composing it yourself but that message is pretty anti-Duggar.

Keep working your brain and develop those critical thinking and empathy skills. It's never too late!

[madpsych78]

I think she's the only one who mentioned anything about RBG (I haven't looked at all the threads yet). If she knew what RBG stood for then this retweet definitely goes against Duggar principles. (And given that Derick is a law student, it's not that far-fetched that Jill may know something about RBG.)

[MichaelaRae]

I sympathize but this IS a site that is about snark so...no, not gonna give anyone a break.

[MargeGunderson]

I read here regularly and see a lot of support for Jill. We can think she’s made significant strides while still pointing out that she and Derick still hold conservative beliefs.

Edited September 21, 2020 by MargeGunderson

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Happyfatchick said:

I haven’t read anything on any threads except the Prayer Closet in forever.  So tonight I’ve used some time to catch up a little.  I learned that Jessa is still a favorite target - she posts stupid conversations with her kids constantly and is on constant pregnancy watch.   there must be a hint about a courtship, the J’s thread is ablaze. 
but on THIS thread, there is no winner.  

I read all the way back and caught up.  Sometimes I went back several times to make sure I understood intent.  I slept on it.  Pondered it.  There is MUCH vitriol and MUCH hate here.  Much hate.  I was able to read it, see it clearly because I’m coming in with clear eyes.  Its been actually a little disturbing.  

Here’s my context.  I grew up Southern baptist.  I know all about Lottie Moon and the cooperative program and the burning of the books and albums in the 70’s.  Back then, we wore pants though never EVER at church, the SBC was what Independent Baptist is now.  (I personally didn’t OWN a pair of pants until 8th grade - but generally girls were just more apt to wear dresses then.  I had shorts for summer). Church was an integral every day part of my life.  I played piano and never once played music outside the realm of worshipful music.  Never questioned that once.  My parents were active and social.  My mother in particular year was also very active in the community.   She was in some ladies groups, and I remember her being particularly drawn to elderly people - buying and delivering groceries, mending clothes, that kind of thing).  We kept foster children.   In no way did we try to shut ourselves away from others, although we were Taught that gayness was a choice and a wrong one, we were never taught to hate gays.  In fact, I would honestly say that racism was a MUCH larger problem, even tho we had 2 active and vocal black congregants.  I remember being involved in and having planning sessions for southern baptists to integrate churches without losing them entirely when neighborhoods transitioned to mixed.  I worked at the Baptist Home Mission Board for maybe 10 years in the 80’s, early 90’s.   Even my JOB was religious!  I was very active in my church.  In no way did I consider myself a hater.  Ever.  

I promise I’m going somewhere with this.

i (along with many people in our congregation) went to what we called the “Bill Gothard Seminars” every single year from probably 1976 to 1985.  IBLP.  It was huge, it was packed, it was pricey and my parents happily forked over the money every year.  My mother thought there was no wiser human than BG.  She paid for other people to attend, she lobbied for greater participation every year.  It was akin to a huge camp meeting.  We all brought food, met new people, made new friends.  I never complained, I never balked, I never questioned.  To this very day, I don’t feel like I was badgered to participate.  I do not feel I was beaten down or abused, even emotionally. My father was admittedly heavy fisted with us, mentally.  Raised Amish, left there and went career Army to the highest enlisted rank - he didn’t play.  But my mom was no wilting daisy.  She was from South Georgia, raised picking cotton, married the army guy and was a force to be reckoned with on her own.  I didn’t see myself being beaten down, I was taught (seriously!) to stand up and be whatever I wanted.  (But if your gonna mess with it at all, BE A GOOD ONE!).  My dad was my biggest fan till the day he died.  But.  I also never rocked the boat growing up.  Lots of koolaid.  I married my first boyfriend (at 17!!!) in a dress buttoned up to my throat and long sleeves -my mother made it.  I made my own bridesmaid dresses.  

what I’m saying is, I have the card, the belt buckle, several t-shirts and somewhere probably some IBLP notebooks.  I was a soft kind natured,  giving/caring/compassionate person, spewing what I’d been taught was good and true and right.  That’s what I was.  
 

I was Jill.  
 

so I’m saying.  I’m asking.  I’m begging.  Please cut this precious girl  some slack.   There is not a mean, nasty, vindictive bone in her body.  She’s a brand new person stepping out and seeing the real world for the very first time.  

I’m 60 now, and there’s several million gallons of water under the bridge.  I’m no longer married to the man I married at 17.  How COULD I have married at 17, when I didn’t even know my own mind?  I had no idea what I wanted, what I needed, how to accomplish anything.  I didnt know my favorite color, much less what I wanted to BE when I grew up!!!  How could my parents have happily let that happen???  
 

the difference is that my husband was entrenched in that life (still is - as far as I know, he’s never sipped any alcohol).  Derick, OTOH, was raised more mainstream, had endured some Hardships, been to college.  He was more willing for his wife to open the windows to the outside world.  I know Derick said some mean and hateful things about Jazz and LGBTQ in general - Derick isn’t 60.  Derick is young and not as far away as me.  You seriously have to step back and shut up long enough to SEE what you’re saying.  I believe he will.  I do.  

and back to Jill - I see a precious, sweet little girl realizing that everything she lived through and participated in, in her life may have been jaded and she never even knew.  It’s not hard to go along with your upbringing until you can back up far enough to know (to KNOW) you aren’t going to be struck by lightening for saying ... wait... is this TRUE???   Honestly.  You get so engrained, so entrenched, you feel real, palpable SCARY guilt if you say “wait.  What??”

plus, she’s a sweetheart of a person from what I’ve ever seen.  I think she’s gentle and maybe a little timid - and has pretty much been blasted out of her family like a rocket - after being told every day of her life that God is love and above all else, we want to be Godly.  She’s a rabbit.  She wants to stick her toes out there and see what happens, but she’s terrified.  She doesn’t have 18 siblings and 2 parents with welcome open arms any more.  She has nothing she grew up knowing.  

I love her.  Obviously I feel some kinship with her.  I don’t hate Derick.  I feel he just hasn’t found his feet yet.  I hope he does finish law school.  I see him encouraging and supporting Jill and that makes me proud.  I don’t know them, but i sort of suspect when he finishes school and gets into a practice, Jill may do something about her education.  I can (like) hope.  

I don’t think Derick is as harsh as perceived. I think we’d be fascinated to know how many times he (himself) believes he’s spoken out of turn.  I wish he’d never addressed Jazz, as I feel like the issues going on there are not ours (anyone in the public) to discuss openly.  I don’t.  I wish they hadn’t gone public with that at all.  I fear major repercussions for them, for her.  It’s heart wrenching.  I have to say, I’ve known several people who transitioned, but they were ADULTS.  If I’m her parents, I don’t know what I would have done.  It’s bizarre and I just... don’t know.  I do not know.  
 

i know that I know that I KNOW I am a different breed of cat today than I was when I married at 17.  I know I had to give myself permission (STILL struggle with that) just to CONSIDER other things.  Other options.  Other opinions. Other possibilities.  I no longer have the ability to open up like a large mouth bass and swallow the shiny bait.  Prove it.  Disprove it.  Why?  How do you know?  How do you know THAT?  Who told you that?  Show me.  Argue with me.  Make me believe or get out.  Prove it.  

I think Jill is only very marginally coming into that person.  I think every day of her life she has to question something.  Why?  Why did I think that?  Is that true??  

I don’t care for Jilly’s parents.  Fingernails on a chalkboard.  But I dearly loved my own and helped both of them over into whatever there was at the end.  Adored them.  And I’m okay; honestly ok for my upbringing.  I feel like a good, strong, morally upstanding citizen.  The world has changed, I’VE CHANGED.  I’m going to make room for their baby steps and not be so negative and try to understand where they are in their journey.  I honestly (swear!) I wish I could know J&D both.  To let them see that I’m 40 years out from that tight orbit, that I’m happy, and that I didn’t get throat cancer, die of a heart attack or struck by lightening for questioning my original beliefs.  I seriously believed that, but also believed God is love.

my train fell off the tracks when my son and his wife lost an infant 15 years ago.  To that point, I was entrenched in church (not SBC but not far off either), Still playing piano, teaching Sunday school.  Still very trusting, loyal and vocal.  The baby was 4 days old when she died (for @doodlebug, it was NEC).  She suffered every inch of her life.  Not “im a fussy baby”but a horrid, contorted face of pain.  They weren’t able to hold her.  The mother had 9 months of carrying, the pain of childbirth - and a dead infant.  The father (my son), for many years a non believer had grief (his own and for his wife) and helplessness.  The grand baby had a grandma praying every minute that God would heal that baby, that He would provide a miracle so that my son could see I’d been right the whole time.... and she died.  She DIED.  She was beautiful, looked perfect, was wanted and loved, and she DIED.  Full term.  Weighed 9 lbs.  Wait.  What???  So yes, it was catastrophic.  Seemed useless and cruel.  It STILL seems useless and cruel.  Welllllllll..... cuz you know.... everything happens for a reason.  I hate that sentence.  What’s the reason?  Huh?  Why did she go through childbirth?  Why did the baby live through birth only to suffer horribly for 4 days?  Why?  Whyyyyyyyyyyy?????????

and the wheels came off, just. Like. That.  

There was looooooong discussion about whether people can change.  Really change.    @doodlebug said they can, and do constantly.  I absolutely believe this.  I am NOT the person I was at 17.  (Or 27, 37 or even 47).   Once you’ve put down the umbrella and stopped trying to be the star of Oklahoma!, life happens.  Kids are sick.  Stuff happens.  Ohmygoshowdidthishappen, I’m SCREWED!!!  Or you’re betrayed, or lost, or hurt, or you lose someone, or your child comes out and you are HORRIFIED to consider what this child must now endure for having been brave enough to accept and announce - but you realize at the same time how much you ADORE this child and that you would never ever reject them, or you realize you cannot FORCE yourself to stay in a relationship one minute longer, or your father dies, or CORONAVIRUS shuts the entire PLANET down, or you fully look at your hero - your Daddy - and realize “dude... you really aren’t all that, are you??”,  or you wake up GOBSMACKED to find that you aren’t sure you believe ANYTHING you believed as a child and you are just a broken little sparrow of a human,  

it is my fervent hope I won’t be attacked.  It’s just my opinion - and you know what we say about those...

HFC, welcome back.  I am humbled by your wisdom.

[GeeGolly]

Jill invited us to watch church services this morning. It looked like they were on their way to an in-person service. I think Jill may have discovered flat irons and conditioner. Now I'm wondering if Jill got her hair colored and styled the other day, but not cut - its super long.

[On the Bias]

@Happyfatchick, thank you for what you have written.  My background could not be more different from yours, but I too believe profoundly in Jill’s capacity for change.  I’m sure that these last few years have been more terrifying than exhilarating for her; I imagine that she must often have felt as though she’d stepped  into a void.   Yet here she is now, living a life that is perhaps all the proof she needs that there is a different way to be, that it is good, and that she can find it. 

[emmawoodhouse]

20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill invited us to watch church services this morning. It looked like they were on their way to an in-person service. I think Jill may have discovered flat irons and conditioner. Now I'm wondering if Jill got her hair colored and styled the other day, but not cut - its super long.

She said she got layers, so some cutting was involved. Just not length more than a trim.

Edited September 20, 2020 by emmawoodhouse

[ginger90]

I haven’t gone to Derick’s Instagram in quite a while , so I don’t know how long this has been up.

[BigBingerBro]

This was Jill back with Israel was a baby.  I wonder how she feels these days?

[Oldernowiser]

The fact is that none of us know them IRL. All we know is what they put out there.

 I think Jill has been given a lot of credit for breaking away, to the extent they have. I wonder more about Derrick’s sincerity, frankly. But he may have changed more than is apparent.  But their marriage and sex advice have invited a shit ton of snark. I don’t care who wrote the “scented lotion” marriage manual, they’re gonna get snarked.

[Happyfatchick]

3 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

I sympathize but this IS a site that is about snark so...no, not gonna give anyone a break.

I’ve used that very sentence myself, and I respect that.  It seems o me like there’s snark, and then there’s snark with intent to harm.  I mean... I’m on some 90 day fiancé sites and I loooooove to run out there with my snark, pinch someone and run back.  I get that.  Really that’s what we all originally came here for. 

[Suzn]

I'm not here for snark.  To some extent it is a window on the world of people who I consider dangerous.  I don't care what people's opinions or beliefs are, but I care about actions.  When people like Derick promote intolerance and would like to limit the rights of others if they could, it doesn't matter how mainstream they may look.  If Jill and Derick have changed their viewpoints, they need to express that as forcefully as they've expressed themselves previously.  It doesn't matter if Derick has changed in thirty years, if he is doing damage on the way there.  The thing that will be telling to me is what he winds up doing with his law degree.

[Happyfatchick]

I wonder how far he is from crossing the finish line with his degree.  Anybody know?

[emmawoodhouse]

Just now, Happyfatchick said:

I wonder how far he is from crossing the finish line with his degree.  Anybody know?

He just started his 3rd year. 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Happyfatchick said:

I wonder how far he is from crossing the finish line with his degree.  Anybody know?

I think this is his last year of law school, so he should finish next May. Oops! Cross-posted with @emmawoodhouse. 😄 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

Ah, but you gave more details. I posted on the fly. 😁

[MichaelaRae]

2 hours ago, Happyfatchick said:

I’ve used that very sentence myself, and I respect that.  It seems o me like there’s snark, and then there’s snark with intent to harm.  I mean... I’m on some 90 day fiancé sites and I loooooove to run out there with my snark, pinch someone and run back.  I get that.  Really that’s what we all originally came here for. 

I don't run, so...that might be a difference? If I state an opinion I own it. I don't pinch and run - I call out hypocrisy and also celebrate when these "not a TV family but a family on TV" turn from it (it's rare but it happens and I comment on it)  and either way I stand by it. Either way, I'm not going to feel bad for being on a TV snark website forum snarking on TV people who continue to put themselves  in the public eye whether they're still on TV or not. And chastising people for doing that is literally one of the "don't do that" rules of this website so....

[GeeGolly]

One of the reasons I enjoy this site is because we can have lively debates, disagree on issues and still have and show respect to others. There are so many of us, with so many different lenses which really allows for some great thoughts and robust discussions.

We all have options on here. We can scroll on by, we can click like, we can pick someone's brain and we can offer a different view. Lets face it, if we all agreed all the time, this place would get boring.

So let me take the time to thank each and everyone of you who share your thoughts, share your personal experiences, offer your expertise and engage in discussions without taking it personally or making it personal.

And most of all, thanks for making me laugh. I can come on here after a really crappy day and someone, in one of these threads, gets me laughing out loud.

 

Now, back to regularly scheduled programming... Derick and his bio - this dude is a master in passive aggression. He's always poking, poking and poking. IMO, Derick has a way to go before he can consider himself enlightened because he's standing on a soapbox of privilege, entitlement and judgement.

 

[Madtown]

@Happyfatchick, I loved your post. You said a lot of things about Jill that I think too. I have always thought that Jessa would be the one to run far away from the family and do something with her life. Maybe it's because of her bitch attitude. I thought Jill would have 25 kids and never run far from the cult. So seeing her change, even though it may not be on the beliefs side, she has changed some of her ways. NEVER did I see Izzy going to public school or her cutting her hair, wearing jeans, shorts and tank tops. So yes, to me she has changed. Maybe someday down the road, they will change when it comes their beliefs. As far as Derick. @GeeGolly said it best in the bolded part.

 

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

One of the reasons I enjoy this site is because we can have lively debates, disagree on issues and still have and show respect to others. There are so many of us, with so many different lenses which really allows for some great thoughts and robust discussions.

We all have options on here. We can scroll on by, we can click like, we can pick someone's brain and we can offer a different view. Lets face it, if we all agreed all the time, this place would get boring.

So let me take the time to thank each and everyone of you who share your thoughts, share your personal experiences, offer your expertise and engage in discussions without taking it personally or making it personal.

And most of all, thanks for making me laugh. I can come on here after a really crappy day and someone, in one of these threads, gets me laughing out loud.

One of the reasons I enjoy this site is because we can have lively debates, disagree on issues and still have and show respect to others. There are so many of us, with so many different lenses which really allows for some great thoughts and robust discussions.

We all have options on here. We can scroll on by, we can click like, we can pick someone's brain and we can offer a different view. Lets face it, if we all agreed all the time, this place would get boring.

So let me take the time to thank each and everyone of you who share your thoughts, share your personal experiences, offer your expertise and engage in discussions without taking it personally or making it personal.

And most of all, thanks for making me laugh. I can come on here after a really crappy day and someone, in one of these threads, gets me laughing out loud.

 

Now, back to regularly scheduled programming... Derick and his bio - this dude is a master in passive aggression. He's always poking, poking and poking. IMO, Derick has a way to go before he can consider himself enlightened because he's standing on a soapbox of privilege, entitlement and judgement.

 

 

I agree with this whole post. I can snark with the best of them with this family, but sometimes I have other feelings and I will post those too. I will say that I do laugh a lot on here. Some of you are quick with the wit and you will make me laugh out loud, so I thank you for that.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Madtown

[Jeeves]

@Happyfatchick, thanks for what you wrote. Most of us do some learning and changing and growing as we move through our lives. Jill and Derick have negotiated several bumps in the road since they met and married. Because Jill's parents pursued the TV money-and-fame god and grabbed the golden TV ring when she was a kid, Jill was a TV personality by the time she hit adulthood. So Jill's and Derick's lives have been on public display - unlike most people who go through all that stuff without a TV crew around or a zillion social media followers. 

As HFC said, I got some issues with Jazz' parents putting all their MINOR CHILD's personal and intimate business not just on the street, but on national TV.  FFS, that's just sick and not in the slang meaning of the word. That said, Derick doesn't get a pass from me on what he said about Jazz and how he did it. He lashed out with some ugly stuff. IMO he may have been motivated more by his own personal and family problems than we'll ever know. At least the result was a clear break with the TV show and apparently with the Jim Bob Duggar Family Empire, LLC. But still - nope. Nasty and uninformed and ugly. Bad bad bad.

OTOH I ain't got the energy to hate on Derick, much less Jill, for their overall conservative views. The Jazz thing apart, I can't remember, certainly not lately, either of them doing things beyond maybe an occasional SM post to push a particular "agenda." And FFS, if I demonize Derick or Jill for their beliefs I'd have to start hating a lot of my own extended family, who are not politically active but hold a lot of opinions I disagree with. Shoot, they're all good people who work hard, help others, and have been loving and kind to me for all my 70+ years. Folks, I ain't got the time or the energy for that sh*t, and anyway I've always considered toting a grudge to require a lot more energy than I was willing to devote to it. I'm lazy that way. Life deals out enough hurts and stings as it is. No need to hoard them up and savor them; there are gonna be more to come. Obviously YMMV.

I strongly suspect that "behind the scenes," i.e., without logging his daily life on social media, Derick's calmed down and shut up and learned stuff while in law school. I was surprised that one of his internship stints after his 1L year was with the federal public defender's office. I was a (state) public defender long long ago at the start of my career, and the PD's office isn't busting at the seams with right-wing ideologues, to say the least. Yeah he may have taken it because of the luck of the draw but he took it. No I don't think he's going to become pro-life or a political liberal, and if you want to hate on him for that, it's your right.

I think he's capable of seeing, as he goes through life, that many things aren't as simple and clearcut (right/wrong) as he originally thought. I think it's possible he's already had a few of those moments.

I also think he absolutely sucks at SM. Seriously. Passive-aggressive and teaser stuff. Ugh.

It seems to me that his years between Danger America and law school were a somewhat messy detoxing and recovery after he surfaced from his deep dive into the fundie world and the JB Duggar Family Empire. And life rolled on as he did that:  all the other stuff like his mother's cancer treatment, his own marriage including new fatherhood, and his wife's many issues mostly arising from her @&$*#^ parents' behavior as to rearing their kids. 

And of course there's this: "So, he's entitled to his opinions but as long as he and his wife have those thousands of social media followers they are dangerous and why don't they just shut up and go private?" Absolutely good question.

Of course, Jill did go quiet on SM this summer (turns out they took a vacation trip) and here at Primetimer or PTV or wherever this is, we were wondering what was up. So yes they can go private - and then we wouldn't have them to talk about. And in some cases, hate. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by Jeeves

[GeeGolly]

@Madtown, I'm curious, what does this mean, "Report post 3 hours ago"?

[frenchtoast]

@GeeGolly I think that's just the text for the flag (report) icon that's at the bottom of posts and it got copied/pasted over into the quote box that can't format it to the icon...maybe? That would be my assumption. The box was copied, not the text inside the box...I think... perhaps? And when it was pasted in a quote box, the flag was converted to text? Maybe? Why the other stuff didn't, I don't know, but this site does strange shit often. 

[BigBingerBro]

Just another blast from the past of Deertick:

[lascuba]

13 hours ago, Happyfatchick said:

I’ve used that very sentence myself, and I respect that.  It seems o me like there’s snark, and then there’s snark with intent to harm.  I mean... I’m on some 90 day fiancé sites and I loooooove to run out there with my snark, pinch someone and run back.  I get that.  Really that’s what we all originally came here for. 

I don't see the harm? Unless people are going to Jill's social media to harass her, people talking shit on forums created to talk shit, about things Jill and Derick have said and done, is not harm. Truth is truth.

11 hours ago, Suzn said:

I'm not here for snark.  To some extent it is a window on the world of people who I consider dangerous.  I don't care what people's opinions or beliefs are, but I care about actions.  When people like Derick promote intolerance and would like to limit the rights of others if they could, it doesn't matter how mainstream they may look.  If Jill and Derick have changed their viewpoints, they need to express that as forcefully as they've expressed themselves previously.  It doesn't matter if Derick has changed in thirty years, if he is doing damage on the way there.  The thing that will be telling to me is what he winds up doing with his law degree.

Say that part again. I know 2020 has me more jaded than usual but I really just cannot wrap my mind around the optimistic assumptions about those two and the lecturing about how we're harming complete strangers by not being willing to naively shut off our brains. It's so easy to play coy and let people assume what they want to believe about them. Popular "influencers" tow that line constantly--say just enough to make viewers think you you'd agree with them on xyz while not actually saying anything.

[Jynnan tonnix]

When it comes to snark, it all rather depends. Of course, with some people who have a gift for language, it's going to be a joy to read anyway, and the content really becomes secondary to the writing. But in general, I appreciate snark more when it focuses on facets of the snarkee's life which are truly extreme. When it starts just getting picky for the sake of pickiness, it rather tends to irk me, as I feel that for every tendency they might have toward something a bit shy of high standards, whether it be housekeeping, spelling, grammar, fashion sense, whatever, there are those of us here who are probably every bit as guilty of some of those things. 

So, yeah, unless these tendencies are real defining factors, and bad enough to be spotted at the most cursory glance, then it's hard for me to really get behind judging someone based on them.

Of course, I'll be happy enough to snark on their beliefs until the cows come home, because, to me, those are definitely harmful, stifling, and void of any critical thinking. And I'll snark on their lack of education if it is clear that they have not had adequate  attention paid to it (as opposed to maybe just not being very good with writing, which is something which many people with actual educations still struggle with). There's more than enough snarkworthy material in their lives without having to resort to stuff which most of us also manage to be guilty of to some extent at some time or another.

Plus, I'm always happy to note and comment on anything positive. Maybe I see this more as a place to get together, chat, and play with a focus on analyzing these bizarre families more than we might in everyday life, but, at the end of the day, it's become more about friends than snark in many ways.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Jynnan tonnix

[Madtown]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

@Madtown, I'm curious, what does this mean, "Report post 3 hours ago"?

I have no idea how that happened! @frenchtoast might have the right idea. I'm really sorry and I went back and edited it out. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[Nysha]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

And FFS, if I demonize Derick or Jill for their beliefs I'd have to start hating a lot of my own extended family, who are not politically active but hold a lot of opinions I disagree with. Shoot, they're all good people who work hard, help others...

This is where I am with Derick and Jill. I don't like their beliefs, but at least half my family believes the same things to varying degrees. I also don't think they actually have any influence to push those beliefs to anyone who didn't already have them. I applaud Jill's tiny steps forward because I've been there, slowly rejecting what I was raised to believe was true. I'm glad Derick is supporting Jill, but I still think he's a judgmental jerk.

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

This is where I am with Derick and Jill. I don't like their beliefs, but at least half my family believes the same things to varying degrees. I also don't think they actually have any influence to push those beliefs to anyone who didn't already have them. I applaud Jill's tiny steps forward because I've been there, slowly rejecting what I was raised to believe was true. I'm glad Derick is supporting Jill, but I still think he's a judgmental jerk.

One of the problems is that Derick and Jill have a large platform to promote their beliefs - who knows if they influence anyone, but they certainly have the opportunity to do so. Also the Duggars are politically active. It is likely that Derick may be, if he is not already.

[BigBingerBro]

[lascuba]

Jill's learning how to take more appealing photographs, I see.

[Happyfatchick]

I’m probably SOOOOOOO wrong, but I just don’t see them as influencers at all.  I have no idea how many people follow them, or what anyone would “collect” spiritually, mentally or emotionally from following them.  I haven’t watched a show with Jill involved since she was making up curly-Cue names on posters when she was talking to him in Nepal.  Thr brief times I’ve seen her, she seems awkward and not an influential adult.  I absolutely freely admit I don’t have a clue how much “influence” they have, but I just don’t see it.  What’s their platform?  She’s no longer fundy, but hasn’t found her feet enough to even be strong about it.  I think I sort of have the impression that if Jim Bob looked at her sternly and said “GO. PUT ON A DRESS! ”, she would scurry to do it. 

I guess what I’m getting at is that they seem like some middle school hand holders really proud to cough up a pan of Manwich sandwiches.  With chips from a bag.  I’m not worried at all about their potential “influence”.  I have a fundy brother who begat a fundy son who begat five fundy children down a stepladder.  They are Independent Baptist Duggars.  I ADORE them, they are the sweetest, kindest family.  I could call that nephew in the middle of the night for a minor issue and he would be on his way in 5 minutes.  And THEY have an 18 yo daughter who i would bet big and large money is all over Jana’s Instagram.  That’s role model heaven for them.  Jill???  Meh.  Who’s watching that??

somebody is about to tell me they have 28 million followers, I can feel it coming.  Like when you’re bitching and get that really creepy feeling the subject of your outrage is standing behind you.  

ive always been really really curious though.  what is their income source?  I assume he doesn’t work because he’s in school (full time?).  I don’t think she works because she doesn’t have a single marketable skill.  Somewhere along the way, I saw a pic of the house they supposedly live in now, and it said they built it.  Where does this money come from?  Would Derick have any kind of inheritance?  His dad was a cop, right?  And sometimes people set up funding for cop kids (especially if they die in the line of duty).  

and (drum roll...) someone is about to tell me they make all their money being influencers, amiright???  Influencers of WHAT?  

[Dimi1]

15 hours ago, Suzn said:

I'm not here for snark.  To some extent it is a window on the world of people who I consider dangerous.  I don't care what people's opinions or beliefs are, but I care about actions.  When people like Derick promote intolerance and would like to limit the rights of others if they could, it doesn't matter how mainstream they may look.  If Jill and Derick have changed their viewpoints, they need to express that as forcefully as they've expressed themselves previously.  It doesn't matter if Derick has changed in thirty years, if he is doing damage on the way there.  The thing that will be telling to me is what he winds up doing with his law degree.

we can all feel that way about anyone who holds the opposite viewpoints of what we believe....we run in to trouble when we think we are right and hold the correct viewpoint...I have seen change from both of them...not so much in others judgements of them...