Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Fallacy]

Jill offered up several phrases from her therapy sessions, so I do think the video was pretty revealing. She’s set boundaries, learned to accept that she can’t live in fear or please everyone in her family, and decided to take as less legalistic view I’d the Bible. Those are ginormous steps in her world. She also talked about interrupting scripture, which I think is a big no, no in her family. The Duggar’s are literalists when it comes to the Bible, after all. Heck, I bet she’s even starting to consider evolution as a valid scientific theory. 
 

They also talked about feeling so much more free now that they’re not connected to the show, so yes, she is far more like cousin Amy than sister Jesse now. 

[Absolom]

4 hours ago, skipnjump said:

If your faith is so strong, you should be able to interact in society and remain committed to your faith.  Lots of people of faith interact with others.  

Let's just say the Duggars' faith seems to be weak according to a dreaded Catholic priest.  My fundie-lite neighbor adamantly refused to go to the viewing or funeral of a Mormon neighbor.  She acted like Mormonism would be "catching."  I ran into our priest and asked him since she had been so opposed to anyone not Mormon going.  He laughed and said the evangelicals should be the first to go with such rich opportunities for witnessing.  He said go on because it's the Christian thing to do to support the mourners and if your Catholic faith is so weak as to be swayed by another faith's funeral, it probably isn't of much use to you anyway.  I think of that every time a Duggarling acts like they'll be contaminated by some singing, dancing, or celebrating or by even attending an event of a different faith.  

I think that's something Derick has taught Jill.  It's OK to experience another culture or belief system.  We look and see without it changing what we believe.  

[Jeeves]

5 hours ago, skipnjump said:

If your faith is so strong, you should be able to interact in society and remain committed to your faith.  Lots of people of faith interact with others. 

 

57 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

At the very least, you should be able to leave the house by yourself without someone accompanying you to spy and tattle.

Yep. However, I'm sure the official rationale for having an accountability partner isn't to admit it's a snitch thing, but to spin it as someone who is with you to help you avoid lapsing into sinful behavior - i.e, keep you accountable to yourself and God. You know, in case you suddenly forget what you deeply believe when out on a random Walmart run, and start fondling random strangers or stealing stuff or knocking back drinks at a strip club. 

Another reason that I can see appealing to JB's narcissist self: an accountability partner is a witness to whatever you did while out of the house, and someone with evil motives would have a hard time claiming you slipped away with them for some illicit activity involving sex/money/whatever, since you'd never be alone with them. 

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Fallacy said:

Jill offered up several phrases from her therapy sessions, so I do think the video was pretty revealing. She’s set boundaries, learned to accept that she can’t live in fear or please everyone in her family, and decided to take as less legalistic view I’d the Bible. Those are ginormous steps in her world. 

I noticed that as well. She talked about having to learn to be okay when others aren't okay, and for someone as dutifully obedient as Jill, that had to be hard. The only way you gain approval in Duggar-world is through conformity, so to make choices she knows her family won't agree with is a big step. 

[MargeGunderson]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Yep. However, I'm sure the official rationale for having an accountability partner isn't to admit it's a snitch thing, but to spin it as someone who is with you to help you avoid lapsing into sinful behavior - i.e, keep you accountable to yourself and God. You know, in case you suddenly forget what you deeply believe when out on a random Walmart run, and start fondling random strangers or stealing stuff or knocking back drinks at a strip clinic

Yeah, Josh ruined it for everyone. He’s really the worst.

[doodlebug]

6 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Yeah, Josh ruined it for everyone. He’s really the worst.

But, it isn't just the Duggars who do accountability partners.  Isn't it an IBLP thing, too?  Didn't the Bates' girls have to register for the same classes so that one of them could study music in college?

[emmawoodhouse]

9 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

But, it isn't just the Duggars who do accountability partners.  Isn't it an IBLP thing, too?  Didn't the Bates' girls have to register for the same classes so that one of them could study music in college?

The Bateses started out that way when Erin matriculated, but the later girls were able to attend school without accountability partners. And their sons all roam all over the world without companions. The Duggars still travel in pairs, with the exception of JD before he got married.

[hathorlive]

On 9/20/2020 at 5:24 PM, doodlebug said:

HFC, welcome back.  I am humbled by your wisdom.

Agreed, so much wisdom.  My mom always told me growing up " I don't have to make you wrong for me to be right".  It's been an invaluable part of my world view in my later years.  Jill and Derrick don't have to agree with liberal me for them to be okay.  They are making considered decisions for the best of their family.  I'm okay with that.  It's such a change from "because God said so" that Jill was raised with.   As for Derrick, I'm giving him a bye.  I think he's been an idiot in the past but I think a lot of that was striking out at people from anger over how Jill was treated.  I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying I can empathize.  I was in the hospital for a few days this week and spent time explaining the Jazz/Derrick/TLC thing.  I said many of the same things HFC did.  I can't imagine being a parent in that situation.  I'm not sure the parents did the right thing, but it's not my life.  So I can't fault him for questioning their wisdom.  I can fault him for doing it on Twitter. 

Life is complicated and humans evolve and grow based on stimuli and experience.  While I don't need Jill and Derrick to apologize for their beliefs (many many people feel LGTBQ lifestyle is wrong), I am excited to see any change and growth they have along the way.   Thank you for summing up how hard it is to breakaway from this lifestyle.

[Growsonwalls]

I wonder which siblings are "supportive" and which ones aren't. I have my guesses but since Jill seems excommunicated in general a lot of her sibling interactions might happen on the down low. 

It's nuts but it seems like Me-chelle is one of the more "supportive" family members? We've seen her visiting Jill on her own (no Jim Bob). Definitely cousin Amy. 

[absnow54]

Jill seems to still be fairly close with the women in her family, including Michelle. She was part of that girl’s breakfast and sister’s shopping trip earlier in the year,  she was at Joy’s baby shower in the summer, and weren’t there some pics of Israel with Spurgeon during quarantine? I agree it’s nuts, but I also think Michelle is one of the accepting family members, which I never would have expected. 

[ouinason]

I don't know, I think it might be really hard for some mothers to just cut a child out of their lives.  Like, Michelle isn't exactly nurturing, but she seems to like her kids in her own vague, distant, way.  Some mothers can't, and won't, write off their kids entirely no matter what they actually think about their choices, or how they hurt people.

[Tikichick]

8 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Agreed, so much wisdom.  My mom always told me growing up " I don't have to make you wrong for me to be right".  It's been an invaluable part of my world view in my later years.  Jill and Derrick don't have to agree with liberal me for them to be okay.  They are making considered decisions for the best of their family.  I'm okay with that.  It's such a change from "because God said so" that Jill was raised with.   As for Derrick, I'm giving him a bye.  I think he's been an idiot in the past but I think a lot of that was striking out at people from anger over how Jill was treated.  I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying I can empathize.  I was in the hospital for a few days this week and spent time explaining the Jazz/Derrick/TLC thing.  I said many of the same things HFC did.  I can't imagine being a parent in that situation.  I'm not sure the parents did the right thing, but it's not my life.  So I can't fault him for questioning their wisdom.  I can fault him for doing it on Twitter. 

Life is complicated and humans evolve and grow based on stimuli and experience.  While I don't need Jill and Derrick to apologize for their beliefs (many many people feel LGTBQ lifestyle is wrong), I am excited to see any change and growth they have along the way.   Thank you for summing up how hard it is to breakaway from this lifestyle.

I know people who disagree with LGBTQ lifestyle because of faith reasons, yet welcome those who fall under that umbrella into their lives warmly and lovingly nonetheless.  The issue isn't discussed.   There's no judgments or suggestion of damnation or need to change or anything at all like that.   They celebrate holidays as a family all together, have dinner together regularly, have vacationed together, etc.  It's no different than people with different political views simply never discussing it.

[Tikichick]

16 minutes ago, ouinason said:

I don't know, I think it might be really hard for some mothers to just cut a child out of their lives.  Like, Michelle isn't exactly nurturing, but she seems to like her kids in her own vague, distant, way.  Some mothers can't, and won't, write off their kids entirely no matter what they actually think about their choices, or how they hurt people.

This is very interesting.  As a mom I've thought about this before when the Casey Anthony case was going on.  I cannot fathom being able to turn my back on my children.  Yet if I were in Cindy Anthony's shoes I cannot imagine defending what her daughter has done.   Maybe I simply wouldn't be able to face it and accept it either, therefore putting me square in it, insisting my daughter hadn't done it.  

In this case I think it's Jill who has cause to cut her parents out of her life for negligence, failure to protect -- and the unmitigated gall to shift blame on her for being abused.

[MonicaM]

3 hours ago, ouinason said:

I don't know, I think it might be really hard for some mothers to just cut a child out of their lives.  Like, Michelle isn't exactly nurturing, but she seems to like her kids in her own vague, distant, way.  Some mothers can't, and won't, write off their kids entirely no matter what they actually think about their choices, or how they hurt people.

True.  However, the cynical part of me also knows that Ma and Pa Duggar are very aware of optics, and they don't want to look as if they have totally cut out Jill.  I wouldn't put it past them to make sure there are at least a few pictures on social media of Ma with her wayward daughter so that the public still believes she's a mother who actually cares about her children.  Personally, I'm not buying it, but that's just my opinion.  I don't buy much of what these people try to sell.

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, MonicaM said:

True.  However, the cynical part of me also knows that Ma and Pa Duggar are very aware of optics, and they don't want to look as if they have totally cut out Jill.  I wouldn't put it past them to make sure there are at least a few pictures on social media of Ma with her wayward daughter so that the public still believes she's a mother who actually cares about her children.  Personally, I'm not buying it, but that's just my opinion.  I don't buy much of what these people try to sell.

This is my take too. Maybe I'm being unfair to Michelle, but I think she's being more pragmatic about it than JB and is probably being more "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer." So, she's the Michael Corleone in this and JB is Sonny? Or Fredo? 😂 It's probably her way of thinking she can check some of the negative PR.

She might also think if she maintains ties with Jill she's more likely to lure her back to the fold.

Not sure that's going to work, but her way is smarter than Jim Bob's. The more he pushes Jill away, the more it confirms every negative thing she is thinking and feeling about her parents. 

 

[GeeGolly]

I think Michelle doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about any of her kids that have moved out. And I don't think she initiates any contact with them, but will certainly join them if asked. Not that she doesn't love or care for them, but they have their owns lives and Michelle has hers. Kind of the un-JillR. Since Jill's siblings seem to coordinate most gatherings, I'm guessing Jill will always be including when the events take place outside of the TTH.

My take on Michelle is she exists in her own world, doing her own thing, until needed for something, whether it be to bring a kid to the doctor, grocery shop, go to a speaking event or attend a gender reveal. And of course, making eggs for breakfast, one at a time.

 

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I know people who disagree with LGBTQ lifestyle because of faith reasons, yet welcome those who fall under that umbrella into their lives warmly and lovingly nonetheless.  The issue isn't discussed.   There's no judgments or suggestion of damnation or need to change or anything at all like that.   They celebrate holidays as a family all together, have dinner together regularly, have vacationed together, etc.  It's no different than people with different political views simply never discussing it.

I also do not disagree with anyone questioning the wisdom of Jazz' parents, especially her mother, who has put her daughter into the spotlight for transgender kids since she was around 4 years old.  Her mother has used her to achieve some of her own goals and I am not sure that is such a good thing for Jazz who is pretty spoiled and demanding, if you've seen the show.  She seems like she is going to have a hard time as an adult as she is used to getting her own way all the time, every time.  If Derick wants to question a parent publicizing their child's transgender status as a means to gain attention for herself or even to use a minor to promote awareness of transgender issues; I have no argument.  Jazz really didn't have a choice and, if you watch the show, she seems to have some really big emotional issues that are perhaps best not shared with the world.

Jazz also received an implant to delay puberty to prevent her genitalia from growing and maturing when she was a preteen.  This was done at her mother's request and she actively sought out a physician who agreed with her to do it.  Jazz' mom says she was concerned her daughter would become depressed and suicidal had normal maturation of her genitals occurred, but it is a really fraught and controversial area and it is ultimately the child who faces consequences when they decide to proceed with surgery.  I think it is valid to question her parents' judgement on that issue, too.

What is not OK is to say that gender dysphoria does not exist, that the transgender person is a myth and that God said so.  Because no, no and no.

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I also do not disagree with anyone questioning the wisdom of Jazz' parents, especially her mother, who has put her daughter into the spotlight for transgender kids since she was around 4 years old.  Her mother has used her to achieve some of her own goals and I am not sure that is such a good thing for Jazz who is pretty spoiled and demanding, if you've seen the show.  She seems like she is going to have a hard time as an adult as she is used to getting her own way all the time, every time.  If Derick wants to question a parent publicizing their child's transgender status as a means to gain attention for herself or even to use a minor to promote awareness of transgender issues; I have no argument.  Jazz really didn't have a choice and, if you watch the show, she seems to have some really big emotional issues that are perhaps best not shared with the world.

Jazz also received an implant to delay puberty to prevent her genitalia from growing and maturing when she was a preteen.  This was done at her mother's request and she actively sought out a physician who agreed with her to do it.  Jazz' mom says she was concerned her daughter would become depressed and suicidal had normal maturation of her genitals occurred, but it is a really fraught and controversial area and it is ultimately the child who faces consequences when they decide to proceed with surgery.  I think it is valid to question her parents' judgement on that issue, too.

What is not OK is to say that gender dysphoria does not exist, that the transgender person is a myth and that God said so.  Because no, no and no.

I think Derick should be entitled to question whatever he wants - respectfully. And when a minor is involved, privately.

[Zella]

I think questioning the wisdom of having any child on a reality TV is fair game. I don't think it is emotionally healthy for anyone, really, but especially a child.

But Derick was being a big ol' hypocrite at the time even in that since his own child was on reality TV and his wife was raised on it. 

Edited to add: I don't think Derick would ever have objected to Jazz being on TV if Jazz weren't trans. If I recall correctly, that was what he was objecting to; he was not leveling any reasonable "Hey, maybe your child shouldn't be on reality TV because it's bad for your kid" criticism. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Zella

[frenchtoast]

4 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I know people who disagree with LGBTQ lifestyle because of faith reasons, yet welcome those who fall under that umbrella into their lives warmly and lovingly nonetheless.  The issue isn't discussed.   There's no judgments or suggestion of damnation or need to change or anything at all like that.   They celebrate holidays as a family all together, have dinner together regularly, have vacationed together, etc.  It's no different than people with different political views simply never discussing it.

Firstly, it's not a lifestyle and phrasing it that way diminishes a person's humanity. Secondly, I find the whole love the sinner hate the sin incredibly degrading and toxic. It erases a person and makes the relationship conditional on denying their true selves. I find it cruel and damaging not accepting and loving. If Jill D is like that and hides the bigotry and hatred, then I prefer the out and loud bigotry of Jill R. Don't hide that light, let everyone see you for who you are. The soft bigotry of Jill D just encourages and gives permission for the obnoxious bigotry of Jill R.

[doodlebug]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think Derick should be entitled to question whatever he wants - respectfully. And when a minor is involved, privately.

Since Jazz and her family have put their lives out on TV for the world to see; I think he is entitled to discuss it publicly as anyone else is free to do.  There's a place on this very site where lots of people have questioned some of the things that we've seen on the show.

The Duggars have minor children and we discuss their upbringings publicly; Jazz is subject to the same sort of scrutiny, IMO.

I can think that the Duggars have made some major errors in raising their children and that Jazz' parents have, too, and we can all discuss  it publicly because they have chosen to show us their families.

However, when Derick says that transgender people are not real; he has crossed a line when he uses Jazz as the example.  

Edited September 24, 2020 by doodlebug

[MargeGunderson]

Derick’s true problem wasn’t a child (Jazz) being on TV, it was always about Jazz being transgender.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, MargeGunderson said:

Derick’s true problem wasn’t a child (Jazz) being on TV, it was always about Jazz being transgender.

Exactly. And I think he would have been just as hateful if Jazz were an adult on TV. 

[MargeGunderson]

I found it hypocritical that he was accusing her parents of exploiting her, when he was using Jazz as a pretext to make his hateful views known.

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Derick’s true problem wasn’t a child (Jazz) being on TV, it was always about Jazz being transgender.

Absolutely, which is why he was wrong to attack her publicly for it.  If he'd stuck to his lane and questioned her parents' choices in doing a show or seeking out medical procedures for their daughter; I would not have a problem with it.  But, he had no right to question her reality, to act like she wasn't who she is because he doesn't like it.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

If he'd stuck to his lane and questioned her parents' choices in doing a show

I would have still had a pretty big problem with that since he had his own small child on a TV show at the time. Derick's biggest problem is he always wants to have it both ways. It's him attacking JB's finances all over again. He wants to criticize people for things he does but never will accept any blame himself. Even now, his complaints about the show seem to revolve specifically around wrongs he believes were perpetuated on him by JB and TLC, not the idea of reality TV itself. 

[doodlebug]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

I would have still had a pretty big problem with that since he had his own small child on a TV show at the time. Derick's biggest problem is he always wants to have it both ways. It's him attacking JB's finances all over again. He wants to criticize people for things he does but never will accept any blame himself. Even now, his complaints about the show seem to revolve specifically around wrongs he believes were perpetuated on him by JB and TLC, not the idea of reality TV itself. 

Oh, yeah, he's a massive hypocrite.

[lascuba]

34 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think questioning the wisdom of having any child on a reality TV is fair game. I don't think it is emotionally healthy for anyone, really, but especially a child.

But Derick was being a big ol' hypocrite at the time even in that since his own child was on reality TV and his wife was raised on it. 

Edited to add: I don't think Derick would ever have objected to Jazz being on TV if Jazz weren't trans. If I recall correctly, that was what he was objecting to; he was not leveling any reasonable "Hey, maybe your child shouldn't be on reality TV because it's bad for your kid" criticism. 

Derick claiming that his critique was about Jazz's parents putting her on reality tv is bullshit revisionist history. His complaints were all about Jazz being a trans, and he only claimed to be concerned about exploitation of a minor long after he got heat about his bigotry. Hell, he continued to misgender her WHILE claiming he was concerned that she was being exploited.

 JFC. Derick and Jill are not good people. No amount of spin is going to make their past words and actions less bigoted.

[GeeGolly]

35 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Since Jazz and her family have put their lives out on TV for the world to see; I think he is entitled to discuss it publicly as anyone else is free to do.  There's a place on this very site where lots of people have questioned some of the things that we've seen on the show.

The Duggars have minor children and we discuss their upbringings publicly; Jazz is subject to the same sort of scrutiny, IMO.

I can think that the Duggars have made some major errors in raising their children and that Jazz' parents have, too, and we can all discuss  it publicly because they have chosen to show us their families.

However, when Derick says that transgender people are not real; he has crossed a line when he uses Jazz as the example.  

I guess my use of the word privately was incorrect. 

I see sharing opinions on this public site different than spouting off of Instagram and Twitter where the intent is for the information to reach the masses.

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Derick claiming that his critique was about Jazz's parents putting her on reality tv is bullshit revisionist history. His complaints were all about Jazz being a trans, and he only claimed to be concerned about exploitation of a minor long after he got heat about his bigotry. Hell, he continued to misgender her WHILE claiming he was concerned that she was being exploited.

 JFC. Derick and Jill are not good people. No amount of spin is going to make their past words and actions less bigoted.

Derick specializes in revisionist history. He even pretends now that he left the show rather than was fired. He contradicts himself constantly about whether they had a contract. 

Even if Derick and I were in complete agreement on everything politically, I'd still despise him because he's a known liar. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Zella

[ginger90]

[BitterApple]

Jessa always does damage control any time Jill posts a video. I'm happy the cousins got to play together though 

[JAYJAY1979]

Since Jill is not doing the Duggar fundie gig...Jessa doesn't view her as competition 

[JoanArc]

The day Jessa realized Jill's the sophisticated one.

[dargosmydaddy]

I hope Izzy doesn't feel bad that he (presumably, based on these pictures?) missed out on hanging with his cousins. 

Meanwhile, I hope Spurgeon does ask lots of questions about Izzy's whereabouts and why he gets to go to school when Spurgeon doesn't. But probably not...

[GeeGolly]

I hope Jill is being careful and using those new boundary skills. I can see Jessa running to the TTH and talking shit about Jill to their parents. Anything for Jessa to keep her crown.

[BitterApple]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

I hope Jill is being careful and using those new boundary skills. I can see Jessa running to the TTH and talking shit about Jill to their parents. Anything for Jessa to keep her crown.

The pumpkin frappuccino is a dead giveaway. When does Jessa ever do random acts of kindness for anyone else? 

[heckkitty]

4 hours ago, lascuba said:

Derick claiming that his critique was about Jazz's parents putting her on reality tv is bullshit revisionist history. His complaints were all about Jazz being a trans, and he only claimed to be concerned about exploitation of a minor long after he got heat about his bigotry. Hell, he continued to misgender her WHILE claiming he was concerned that she was being exploited.

 JFC. Derick and Jill are not good people. No amount of spin is going to make their past words and actions less bigoted.

Yes, or he would not have repeatedly misgendered her. 
 

doh! Sorry, didn’t read carefully & just saw you said the exact same thing!

Edited September 24, 2020 by heckkitty

[wait.what]

I worry for Jill and any other person who attempts to “break away.”

I fear that if anything bad happens in her life (we all know bad things happen to good people), her family will say: if only you had stayed under the protection of your father/family/husband (or whatever their philosophy is) this would have never happened. 
When Joy lost her baby, we heard nothing but support and love and admiration of Joys faith, yada yada...(all appropriate of course)

If something bad happens to Jill ( and I DO NOT wish anything bad for her), I wonder if she would receive the same support, or get the “see? you were disobedient, I knew this would happen”

if this ever happens I hope Jill is strong enough not to believe them. 

[Growsonwalls]

I think one HUGE area of growth is that Jill seems to recognize that whether her siblings are "supportive" or not she still has to make the right choices for herself. That means therapy, means putting Israel in school because she's not cut out for homeschooling, it means dressing the way she wants and cutting her hair the style she wants it. They seem like little things but they're actually huge. 

[crazycatlady58]

12 minutes ago, wait.what said:

I worry for Jill and any other person who attempts to “break away.”

I fear that if anything bad happens in her life (we all know bad things happen to good people), her family will say: if only you had stayed under the protection of your father/family/husband (or whatever their philosophy is) this would have never happened. 
When Joy lost her baby, we heard nothing but support and love and admiration of Joys faith, yada yada...(all appropriate of course)

If something bad happens to Jill ( and I DO NOT wish anything bad for her), I wonder if she would receive the same support, or get the “see? you were disobedient, I knew this would happen”

if this ever happens I hope Jill is strong enough not to believe them. 

But Jill is following her husband's lead. They `should ` have no problem with what she is doing. 

[Panopticon]

17 minutes ago, wait.what said:

 

If something bad happens to Jill ( and I DO NOT wish anything bad for her), I wonder if she would receive the same support, or get the “see? you were disobedient, I knew this would happen”

if this ever happens I hope Jill is strong enough not to believe them. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if Jill’s current journey was partially spurred by some of the bad things that did happen to her even though she was the most obedient of the bunch. She wanted to be a missionary but she found the experience terrifying. She wanted to be a midwife but that didn’t work out the way she planned. She wanted to be mother a dozen kids; she had a hard time adjusting to motherhood and something scary happened at Sam’s birth that might be the reason she presently has two children rather than three or four. She wanted a perfect marriage but went through a rough spot during which her husband sometimes appeared to treat her with disdain.

She may have already learned that lesson about doing everything “right” (as she’d been taught to define right) and still having her world cave in on her. 

[mythoughtis]

Derick needs to go back and review.  He was complaining about her parents  exploiting Jazz.  However, the actions he considered exploitation was them allowing Jazz to identify as a female.  He wanted them to tell Jazz to be ‘John’  because she was born a boy.  Because he believed that transgender is not a reality.  So he felt that the parents acting as if it was real was exploitation.  He made that very clear.  Didn’t have a thing to do with a TV show.
 

I can speculate on Dericks’ actual thoughts because I have acknowledged on the Jazz forum that I am also uncomfortable with the concept of being transgendered and that being  uncomfortable is my problem because a persons’ body is theirs, not mine.  I do wish that surgeries were done later and not  as teenagers, due to the permanence if it. But again, not my body. 
 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by mythoughtis

[DangerousMinds]

Jill and Jessa don’t live together, where are their masks?

[Churchhoney]

6 hours ago, Zella said:

I think questioning the wisdom of having any child on a reality TV is fair game. I don't think it is emotionally healthy for anyone, really, but especially a child.

But Derick was being a big ol' hypocrite at the time even in that since his own child was on reality TV and his wife was raised on it. 

Edited to add: I don't think Derick would ever have objected to Jazz being on TV if Jazz weren't trans. If I recall correctly, that was what he was objecting to; he was not leveling any reasonable "Hey, maybe your child shouldn't be on reality TV because it's bad for your kid" criticism. 

He was also going with the prevailing complaint of a lot of the pastors he looks up to (or looked up to at the time, anyway). He and Jer made very similar statements about the Jazz thing -- Der online and Jer in some quite strident sermons in which he talked in somewhat apocalyptic terms about what would happen if people started saying that transgender people were okay -- and both of them were clearly deliberately echoing "pastors" that they expressed admiration for when they said this stuff. They're both jumpers onto bandwagons and not original thinkers. 

So part of it was those two guys sucking up to leaders in whose enterprise they hoped to rise, and falling in line with them and hoping they might somehow hear what Der and Jer  said and be impressed, I think. Both of them were spouting off about how natural law has to be followed and in natural law there's no such thing as gender dysphoria yada yada yada......And if you say there is then you're shaking your fist in the face of the Lord and so on. 

How a bunch of close-minded pastors "know" that God holds this view and wants them to enforce it is a mystery to me., since I think it's a stretch to see the bible as actually commenting on this issue. But Der and Jer were both sold on that and wanted to be seen as fighting for this very important tenet of the faith -- we must condemn the breaking of natural law, and male and female created he them and that is that! 

I don't think the "don't put your children on tv" thing ever really came out of either of them. I clearly remember Jer going on about how Jazz's parents were allowing their child to boss them around and were submitting to her bogus complaint about gender dysphoria, in fact. He said they needed to take back their power and command their child to drop her unnatural complaints against the way God made the world.  

I don't remember whether Der included this in his rants as well, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.......The pastors they were sucking up to are big on patriarchy as well, so coming down hard on the side of parents exerting their power over kids would be another way to curry favor with them. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Churchhoney

[ginger90]

Just a refresher....

 

2017:

Then, in 2019:

Edited September 25, 2020 by ginger90

[ouinason]

If Derick had said she instead of he then there wouldn't be the big controversy about it.  And I agree with him (outside the gender).  And misgendering is a very common thing and not inherently a sign of evil.  It's stupid and ignorant, but hate takes a lot of energy and I'm not going to start hating every person who has stupid and ignorant beliefs, ideas and word vomit.

 

I'm saving my hate for Michelle and her robocalls and protests over bathroom privileges.  

[BigBingerBro]

I wonder if Jessa's visit was genuine.  I feel bad for thinking IB sent her in to snoop and report back.

[BitterApple]

Just now, BigBingerBro said:

I wonder if Jessa's visit was genuine.  I feel bad for thinking IB sent her in to snoop and report back.

For me, it's the timing that's suspect. Jill makes a video saying some of her siblings don't agree with her choices, and 24 hours later, here comes Jessa bearing cherubic kids and caffeine. Knowing how pressed Jessa is to keep up appearances, it seems a bit sketchy.

[emmawoodhouse]

11 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

For me, it's the timing that's suspect. Jill makes a video saying some of her siblings don't agree with her choices, and 24 hours later, here comes Jessa bearing cherubic kids and caffeine. Knowing how pressed Jessa is to keep up appearances, it seems a bit sketchy.

It's all kinds of suspect. I don't trust Jessa as far as I can throw her. And trust me, I couldn't throw her more than a foot. 😁