Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Darknight]

I wonder if tlc will still support Josh even if he's not on the show

[okerry]

Ya'll know that right now the LAW & ORDER: SVU writers are chipping away at their keyboards for their "ripped from the headlines" version of this story.

Almost from the start of this, I've been wondering who's going to play who in the HBO movie of all this.

[Churchhoney]

Until today, I've only ever watched two episodes of this show, for about 20 minutes each. I've been interested in the Duggars only based on my interests in politics, religion and controlling families, so I had never really seen anything of Josh except in his (late and lamented) political role.

 

Long story short -- I just looked up on youtube the 16 Kids special that he narrated, and I found it the creepiest part of this whole mess. I was stunned by his arrogant, uppity, know-it-all, super-confident, self-righteous air -- a teenage boy who at the time was still more or less in the middle of this years-long unfolding ugly saga. Right there in the midst of the family he harmed. I used to teach high school, so I've known a ton of teenage boys, and I don't know that I've ever seen the equal of his demeanor. But it says pretty clearly, to me anyway, that he lacked empathy big time, felt no remorse over the situation and considered himself the king of the world. Pretty much the opposite of many teenage boys, whose bravado, when they even exhibit it, tends to be a fairly obvious crack-riddled facade, in my experience anyway. I admit that I didn't like him before. But now -- wow. I get very bad vibes from him, even as a kid.

[RazzleberryPie]

I really don't understand this whole "I-said-my-bad-and-I-was-forgiven-so-it-never-happened" mindset but maybe that's because I was raised Catholic (I'm not religious anymore) and taught 1) all sins are not equal - there are mortal (really bad) and venial (lesser) sins; and 2) while there's definitely confession and absolution in Catholicism, there's also a penance to pay. I guess Joshie and JB & Michelle are paying that now. I am so sorry it has to effect the rest of the family though.

Baptists teach that all sin is sin, all sin offends and separates us from God, and there is no difference in the degree of sin. Stealing a pencil from school is the same as everything the Manson family did. There is usually no penance. Whether you confess to the person you offended, to Jesus as your confessor, or to the whole church varies by church.

 

Of course, sins like consenting homosexuality and abortion are also far, far, worse than say, molesting your sisters while they sleep, so although they profess all sin is equal, they really pick and choose. Married gay couples are far more deprived and sinful than a straight couple who have sex. All alcohol is evil, because your body is a temple and all, but gluttony is something made up by Catholics and not in the Bible. Makes no sense when you think of it.

 

While I wish and hope The Bateses would handled it differently, you are probably right.      I guess its just wishful thinking on my part.    Kelly and Gil while of the same beliefs seem so different than JB and Michelle as parents. They seem to actually be real parents and love their children in a genuine way you can see on their show.

They speak naturally, not like the Duggars who act like they are reading cue cards.

         I just keep reminding myself of my historian friends always tells me.  We weren't there so we don't know.

Speculating on what the Bates might do has nothing to do with what the Duggars actually did.

[satrunrose]

 

Maybe he's being soft because of his daughter-in-law. But this is what gets me most about their defenders. They are acting as if what Josh was caught drinking a beer or reading Playboy Magazine as a teen. Not that he committed a horrible act. And many times.

This is confusing for me too. I've taken a few peeks outside of this wonderful forum (Thanks mods for all you do. It's a little scary out there) and there's this issue that there's no gradation of "sin", "crime" or "bad behaviour" for Duggars and their defenders. I know there are different levels of sin for Catholicism, and in my church we don't really discuss sex in terms of "sinning", so I'm a little ignorant here. The impression I'm getting, though, is that if I were to, say, watch Titanic and get "desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled" from the car or drawing scene, and then instead of repenting and seeking forgiveness, I turned around and watched it again, my soul is in greater peril than Josh Duggar's because he, allegedly, repented. Really?

 

ETA. Whoops, I see Razzleberry pie addressed this while I was typing. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by satrunrose

[natyxg]

What's really blowing my mind is all of the "So what? He asked for forgiveness and God forgave him so it's like it never happened! The victims forgave him too! So just forget it!" reactions.

 

I am not convinced by many of those who keep defending Josh using these arguments because I am completely convinced that if something like this happened with a gay man who had a reality show he used to show how normal gay families are, they would be burning the guy at the stake (figuratively speaking): calling him a pervert, and sick and that he had to repent for being a sick homosexual. They would also be screaming at all directions that he probably has molested his own children too, and that his was an example of the abomination of a godless life. In that case, if it was the gay man who molested his brothers when he was 14, they would have painted it as a sick act of perversion, not a forgettable teenage mistake. Their hypocrisy and double standards are blatant, so the message I get is not that it's about forgiveness, but that "boys will be boys who can't help themselves and make mistakes, so let's not make a big deal about it... as long as it's our boys and the molested ones are girls".

Edited May 24, 2015 by natyxg

[wanderwoman]

I mentioned this in the Jim Boob and Mullet thread, but the more I think about it, the more I feel compelled to follow through. Someone suggested stalking the Duggars. I'm not on board with that. But, I do think the Duggars missed another opportunity to use their fame to shine the light on a very real, sad problem. Just as they missed the boat on showing the realities of patriarchal fundamentalism, prematurity, the tole cancer can take on a family, immunizations, and miscarriage. Instead, they took on abortion. This latest scandal doesn't help the perception that they care more about embryos and other people's uteri than they do about protecting those "precious blessings" after they leave the womb. Let's be the "generation that stops molestation" and the generation who deals with it and shines the light on the plight of the victim. Let's be the generation to have real conversations with our children and friends about molestation. Instead of stalking the Duggars and railing against Josh, let's, for one minute, light a candle or start a discussion about how to help the victims of sexual abuse. At 5:19pm Pacific Time (5 for the victims, 19 for obvious reasons), I will be putting a candle in my front window to show support for the Duggar girls. I can't be in Arkansas, but if I was, I'd stand in front of the gate with my candle. I will also be making a donation to Stop It Now (stopitnow.org). I'd be honored if anyone wanted to join me.

Edited May 24, 2015 by wanderwoman

[okerry]

I agree and at this point I don't think dragging Boob, Michelle and Josh through the court system is going to help matters any. Josh did a horrible thing but I'm not sure what "justice" would look like in this case. Hurting the parents inevitably hurts the daughters as well. I also want to add that the way the Duggars handled the abuse is the same way every other family I've known who experienced something similar handled the abuse. It's not as black and white as the public wants to believe.

Yebbut -- wouldn't most families ALSO take the victims to serious, secular counseling and therapy?

[humbleopinion]

Still wanting TLC to completely remove the Duggars from their home page.

At least scrub Josh, Anna, Michelle, JimBob from the site.

Cut the head off the snake.

[Cherrio]

Baptists teach that all sin is sin, all sin offends and separates us from God, and there is no difference in the degree of sin. Stealing a pencil from school is the same as everything the Manson family did. There is usually no penance. Whether you confess to the person you offended, to Jesus as your confessor, or to the whole church varies by church.

 

Of course, sins like consenting homosexuality and abortion are also far, far, worse than say, molesting your sisters while they sleep, so although they profess all sin is equal, they really pick and choose. Married gay couples are far more deprived and sinful than a straight couple who have sex. All alcohol is evil, because your body is a temple and all, but gluttony is something made up by Catholics and not in the Bible. Makes no sense when you think of it.

 

Speculating on what the Bates might do has nothing to do with what the Duggars actually did.

I totally agree that what I wrote has nothing to do with what the Duggars did.

[Cherrio]

I am not convinced by many of those who keep defending Josh using these arguments because I am completely convinced that if something like this happened with a gay man who had a reality show he used to show how normal gay families are, they would be burning the guy at the stake (figuratively speaking): calling him a pervert, and sick and that he had to repent for being a sick homosexual. They would also be screaming at all directions that he probably has molested his own children too, and that his was an example of the abomination of a godless life. In that case, if it was the gay man who molested his brothers when he was 14, they would have painted it as a sick act of perversion, not a forgettable teenage mistake. Their hypocrisy and double standards are blatant, so the message I get is not that it's about forgiveness, but that "boys will be boys who can't help themselves and make mistakes, so let's not make a big deal about it... as long as it's our boys and the molested ones are girls".

I agree with your excellent post and I would like to add that The Southern Poverty Law Center has identified The FRC as a hate group.

[bluebonnet]

In hindsight, it's really disturbing to see Josh joking about incest.

[Gianthambeast]

I've never seen this show, but I've read the last twenty pages or so of this thread because of personal history. Everybody else has already stated a lot of my feelings on the matter, so I'll just add one thing for now.

That is, I'm really disappointed in Harpo's lack of action in 2006 and since. As I understand it - please correct me if I'm wrong - in 2006 they knew that something had happened in that house. So they canceled their Oprah appearance and alerted Arkansas authorities, exactly as they should.

But then, when nothing happened, they shrugged their shoulders and walked away? And stood by while the Duggars used their political clout to fight against equality for a group of people that Oprah and Harpo would claim to support? That's weak sauce.

I mean, kudos to them for doing as much as they did, but they could have done more, IMO.

I've also wondered a little about this since Oprah herself was a sexual abuse survivor and has been a strong advocate for other abuse survivors. In many ways her show was one of the first to put the issue in the public eye. Thank God she did report to the authorities.  As someone mentioned upthread, she might not have gone further because of the legal repercussions that would have ensued. 

[Julia]

Ted Haggard repented on the news pretty much nightly for a while there for that young man at his church he "was inappropriate" with. He lost his job, had counseling mandated, and was ordered by his denomination to stay off TV. So, yeah, I'm seeing the girl thing as a factor here.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Julia

[AmandaPanda]

I think you're probably right about the fact that many families do respond in a similar way (in fact, I know some who have). However, most families aren't making $$$ by showing America how morally superior their lifestyle is and by spewing hate at the LGBTQ community.

I think if the Duggars were a "typical" family who weren't always showing off their self-righteous religious beliefs, working against LGBTQ & women's rights, & propagating hate, the public would have a much different reaction to this story.

 

But if the Duggars were a "typical" family and this happened, we never would have heard about it.

[Skittl1321]

 

Also, since teachers are mandatory reporters shouldn't Michelle have reported it..you know since she was the "teacher" in the house?

A homeschool teacher is not a mandatory reporter.

[doodlebug]

This whole thing makes me sad.  I have some vague memory of way back when they moved into the house and gave the viewers (I am a viewer, not a fan) a tour that the girls had their dorm room and the boys had their dorm room, but  Josh had his own room.  Did I dream that? Can anyone recall?

Yes, whether he slept there or not, Josh was the only one to have any private space that was his alone.  Meanwhile, his sisters couldn't claim a single pair of socks as their own.  Recall during the homebuilding special that Jim Bob and Michelle claimed the other kids wanted the big dorm rooms, that they wanted to share.  I remember some posters who wondered what sort of teen/preteen girl wants to share her bedroom (and, in some cases, her bed) with babies and toddlers?  Now we know.  A girl who doesn't feel safe in her own bed, a girl whose been violated in her own home, a girl whose parents placed the blame on her and told her to 'keep sweet' and pretend she wasn't harmed by it, a girl who is worried about her younger sisters being defenseless if their brother wanted to assault them, too.  A girl who sleeps fully clothed well into her 20's.  It's been haunting me ever since I heard the truth.

 

If we didn't know what we know about their beliefs; that women are 'lesser', that it is always the woman's fault if a man is lustful, that if she is assaulted, she did something to bring it on; it would be easier to think that the Duggar were only trying to protect all of their kids, but, we know that is not the case.  They were trying to protect their son and they did it at the expense of their daughters who were not only told to 'forgive' their brother instantly, but were also blamed for it and were seemingly the only ones who suffered long term consequences for this tragedy.  We've been told repeatedly that girls are to 'keep sweet' and never express a negative emotion ever.  In view of what we know to be true, the  monumental emotional abuse these girls have suffered cannot be denied. .

 

Jesus wept, indeed.

Edited May 24, 2015 by doodlebug

[JenCarroll]

I will also be making a donation to Stop It Now (stopitnow.org). I'd be honored if anyone wanted to join me.

I will.

[Ljohnson1987]

J'Chelle and Boob are just as to blame as Smugs.  I know they're not mandated reporters, because they're not public school teachers, but they should've cared enough about their son, and the people he victimized to do it.  Many people are to blame. The victims are not. J'Chelle and Boob need to stop acting like Smuggar is some golden child, and all should be forgiven. Not how it works in the real world.

[merylinkid]

 

I mentioned this in the Jim Boob and Mullet thread, but the more I think about it, the more I feel compelled to follow through. Someone suggested stalking the Duggars. I'm not on board with that. But, I do think the Duggars missed another opportunity to use their fame to shine the light on a very real, sad problem. Just as they missed the boat on showing the realities of patriarchal fundamentalism, prematurity, the tole cancer can take on a family, immunizations, and miscarriage. Instead, they took on abortion. This latest scandal doesn't help the perception that they care more about embryos and other people's uteri than they do about protecting those "precious blessings" after they leave the womb. Let's be the "generation that stops molestation" and the generation who deals with it and shines the light on the plight of the victim. Let's be the generation to have real conversations with our children and friends about molestation. Instead of stalking the Duggars and railing against Josh, let's, for one minute, light a candle or start a discussion about how to help the victims of sexual abuse. At 5:19pm Pacific Time (5 for the victims, 19 for obvious reasons), I will be putting a candle in my front window to show support for the Duggar girls. I can't be in Arkansas, but if I was, I'd stand in front of the gate with my candle. I will also be making a donation to Stop It Now (stopitnow.org). I'd be honored if anyone wanted to join me.

This.   Wanderwoman.   This.   This is how we move forward.   We can talk all we want here (and we should) about how it happened, why it happened, who did what when, the future repercussions.   But as we are talking, others are being molested, by family members, by trusted family friends, by strangers.    We need to use THIS moment to decide to act.   

 

THank you so much.

[Kcat1971]

 

He fondeled more than his sister right? The report says at least 2 families.

What about the Non Duggar abuse victims...dont they want actual justice? Rather than JB's self emposed Family Justice

 

The police report reflects an phone call to the parent of a non-family member, who stated it was handled at the time and they didn't want it made into a bigger deal than it was, and that it was up to the alleged victim whether she wanted to be interviewed. (Narrative #11)  Then Narrative #17 is the police interview with the alleged victim said that Josh confessed that he touched her over her clothes 1 time while she was sleeping over, apparently babysitting (which implies that she's older than the other girls and possibly even Josh).  She states that she didn't' remember the incident.  Based on the alleged victim's response to the interview it does not appear that they wanted "justice"  at the time.  Perhaps this means that the degree of touching didn't rise in her mind to "fondling" or "sexual abuse."  I really hate to make someone out to be a victim if they don't feel victimized.

[CarolMK]

Wanderwoman, I really like the idea of what you posted about supporting the Duggar sisters with a donation to Stop it Now. I just changed my Amazon Smile account over from a previous charity to Stop It Now. Last summer, the ice bucket challenge was one of the first I remember to bring awareness to ALS, so I did that one first, and then changed to Doctors Without Borders and the American Cancer society. I was not aware of Stop It Now until you posted the link.

 

To keep on topic of the thread, I don't want to see Josh ever featured on any show that features the Duggars. Overall I believe it's better for all involved if the show is cancelled. Also hoping that CPS does investigate Jim Bob and Michelle...his attitudes toward sex appear warped and creepy and he himself does not have a healthy attitude towards it. 

[Darknight]

I just don't understand how Christians can see all sins the same. As a christian myself stealing and murder are two different things. Molesting and lying are two different things. How can fans justify this

[JoanArc]

In hindsight, it's really disturbing to see Josh joking about incest.

Alright, it's been fun. I've seen it all now. I need to look at kitten pictures before I ragequit humanity.

 

I'm still firmly in the camp that more sex stuff will come out. I really doubt 5 separate incidents with 5 separate people was it. Not by a long shot.

[GinnyMars]

I feel the same way re: "a river of anger and sadness". I'm remembering different things about different 19KAC episodes -- Jim Boob and J-Chelle's dry humping at the mini golf course. Jim Boob had to stand on the platform to tell Jilly Muffin and derickdillard they could kiss. J-Chelle's flipping out that Jessa held hands with Bin while they prayed, or her wrestling Josie back into her little "modesty" jacket. SERIOUSLY? So many instances of no boundaries and an absolutely weird and unhealthy obsession with sexuality.

 

This made me think of this blog post from an ex-Quiverfull woman about the concept of extreme modesty and why it's completely effed up: Excessive Modesty makes me feel objectified.

[JoanArc]

Josh's 'room' was a work nook, not a bedroom. I think you can see it in the scene where he's calling Mr Keller for permission to marry Anna.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2b1uMscilQ

 

At around 4:30 he calls the boys dorm 'our bedroom'. I'm sure someone can count the beds and compare to the number of kids at the time.

 

It is telling that they moved his ass out of the house almost as soon as they moved in though.

Edited May 24, 2015 by JoanArc

[direpup]

I'm still firmly in the camp that more sex stuff will come out. I really doubt 5 separate incidents with 5 separate people was it. Not by a long shot.

 

Agreed. I have already read a few articles, quoting psychologists who state Josh's actions constitute learned behavior.  Storms of scrutiny will rain down on the Duggar family.  Tip of the iceberg, etc. 

 

OK I'm done with the weather metaphors LOL.

Edited May 24, 2015 by direpup

[truthtalk2014]

THIS!!!! That is exactly what I've been saying. No one wants Boob as in-law.

I thought one of the Bates boys- Zach I believe- asked to court Jana but that she turned him down.

 

I'm with the other poster that believes that we have not heard of every case of abuse.  

[3 is enough]

 

I'm still firmly in the camp that more sex stuff will come out. I really doubt 5 separate incidents with 5 separate people was it. Not by a long shot.

Sadly, I agree.  I am just sad. Sad for those poor girls who did nothing wrong and have to keep sweet while their worst nightmare has become public knowledge. Sad that so many people are excusing this as an act of teenage stupidity. Sad that there are churches out there who are still willing to pay this family to give their "testimony". 

[doodlebug]

I'm still firmly in the camp that more sex stuff will come out. I really doubt 5 separate incidents with 5 separate people was it. Not by a long shot.

 

I have no doubt this is going to happen sooner than later.  There's no way it was just 5, however, because of the fundie code of silence about this stuff, it would be hard for someone in their circle to come forward.  The Duggar virtually never mix with anyone other than their own kind of fundies.  If Josh molested one of their kids, the message probably would've been the same as the Duggar girls were most likely given.  Josh confessed to the church and Jesus forgave him. That's that and the girl would also be interrogated about what she did to stir his lust.  And told that if she ever brought it up again, she would be ostracized.  Their 'faith' is the center of their lives, all of their relationships and their livelihood in many cases, is intertwined with it.  For someone who is still fundie to come forward will mean the loss of virtually everything and everyone in her life.  It is unlikely to happen.

 

However, rumor has it that Joshie frequented strip clubs and such prior to his marriage.  If that is the case, there are folks in the secular world who know he didn't repent and didn't curb his lustful ways..  Those of us in the real world wouldn't much care if a young guy hung out on the seamier side of things.  And, based on what we've heard about Josh, as well as other fundies, chances are he wasn't the sort to look and not touch.  There may well be a wanton woman or 10 out there with some stories to tell and I suspect we'll be hearing from them soon.

 

This story is the tip of a very large, very ugly iceberg methinks.  And Josh and his parents are sittin' in deck chairs on the Titanic as 'Nearer my God to Thee' is playing.

Edited May 24, 2015 by doodlebug

[Kcat1971]

Wanderwoman, I really like the idea of what you posted about supporting the Duggar sisters with a donation to Stop it Now. I just changed my Amazon Smile account over from a previous charity to Stop It Now. 

 

Great idea!

[Zung Li]

I've noticed that in the comments I've read on other sites there are a lot of people who didn't read the report or the articles with timelines, etc. There seems to be misinformation being put out deliberately. Many people are saying they turned him in, everyone got help, he was only 12, etc.

[Blergh]

Agree with everyone here re Josh himself and I'm afraid I'd explode my server if I got started. As to Anna, I wonder if it's possible that she may have liked the idea of being the 'heir appearant's wife' [and therefore outranking every other female save Michelle] and wanting to reap the bounty of being on the Dugger gravy train enough to be oblivious to what the victims went through despite her fiance fessing and the crimes being common knowledge in their circle? If that's so, then her own kids would have every reason to hate her forever almost as much as Josh and the rest of those complicit in the crimes.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Blergh

[RazzleberryPie]

I've noticed that in the comments I've read on other sites there are a lot of people who didn't read the report or the articles with timelines, etc. There seems to be misinformation being put out deliberately. Many people are saying they turned him in, everyone got help, he was only 12, etc.

The most idiotic comments I've seen come from here:  http://www.aboverubies.net/2015/05/the-duggars-whats-in-name.html?m=1

 

So basically the nothing anyone said (police report, those interviewed, etc.,) was real or true, everything is speculation, but Josh repenting is the whole truth, and blames the evil liberal media.

[fliptopbox]

I thought one of the Bates boys- Zach I believe- asked to court Jana but that she turned him down.

 

I'm with the other poster that believes that we have not heard of every case of abuse.  

I wouldn't be surprised if Jana didn't turn Zach down, but JB did. Jana may have never heard about the request until it was too late. Wouldn't surprise me at all...JB is protecting his prized nanny. I question if he would ever let Jana court (or date...whatever she wants) because she basically runs their household and they all know it.

 

I'm also guessing this "leak" is only the tip of the iceberg. Chances are the Duggars have everyone they know who could say a single word against them on lockdown.

[Julia]

The most idiotic comments I've seen come from here:  

http://www.aboverubies.net/2015/05/the-duggars-whats-in-name.html?m=1

 

So basically the nothing anyone said (police report, those interviewed, etc.,) was real or true, everything is speculation, but Josh repenting is the whole truth, and blames the evil liberal media.

 

Not planning on going over there, because I expect it'll break my brain more than I can afford, but if everything everyone said isn't real or true, what is Josh repenting for?

[leighdear]

After re-reading the Michael Seewald Blog, it still sets my teeth on edge.  Basically he:

1. Blasts the media for "throwing stones" at the family of his meal ticket, Ben.
2. Says that Josh admitted his sin, has repented and reformed.  NO proof though.
3. Lets us know that we need him to bring "context" to the whole situation. 
4. He praises Michelle and Jim Bob for their godly and healing parenting.
5. He says dont forget the victims. Oh yeah, "People were Affected". 
6. He says the Duggers didn't hide anything, yet then says they did. Because it was their dirty laundry. And nobody should know about it. 
7. He then quotes scripture about how everybody sins. 
8. Now we move on to youthful lust, rampant STDs and more sin.
9. He then mentions the Duggars aren't perfect parents, but they excel. Really.
10. Now he points out we're all no better than Josh with our sinning ways.
11. More bible verses to tell us we can't condem somebody like Josh, who has repented.
12. He states his family stands with the Duggars. Oh yes, and the unnamed victims.
13. Then he says to the victims, "Speak Up". This is good. Too little too late, but good.
14. Lastly, he says Jesus will make everything ok for everybody. 

Sadly I think those few small crumbs of real concern for the girls in this situation are buried so far underneath a steaming pile of sanctimonious crap and self-serving rhetoric.  I could never credit him with supporting the victims with this, just himself and his family.  

 

Sadly, the victims are now his family too. 

[NextIteration]

This clears up my timeline issues regarding the FOI and the request to destroy the record to protect the minor.

 

WaPo has a good timeline that makes it clear how things unfolded.

[Rhondinella]

Ya'll know that right now the LAW & ORDER: SVU writers are chipping away at their keyboards for their "ripped from the headlines" version of this story.

 

And if it doesn't show up in a thinly veiled version on The Good Wife I'll be shocked.

[fliptopbox]

Not planning on going over there, because I expect it'll break my brain more than I can afford, but if everything everyone said isn't real or true, what is Josh repenting for?

I would like to know the answer to that as well. If he already repented and feels truly absolved then why apologize again?

 

Oh wait.. He was just paying lip service before, as a snotty teenage kid. Now he feels what it's like to be truly caught for something. Probably for the first time in his life people aren't blindly praising everything he says and does because he's a Duggar. 

[dillpickles]

This whole thing makes me sad. I have some vague memory of way back when they moved into the house and gave the viewers (I am a viewer, not a fan) a tour that the girls had their dorm room and the boys had their dorm room, but Josh had his own room. Did I dream that? Can anyone recall?

I think he had his own videography room, not a bedroom. Not too sure though.

[leighdear]

I just keep reminding myself of my historian friends always tells me.  We weren't there so we don't know.

I had a history professor that always said "History is not necessarily what happened, but what actually got written down".  Same kind of sentiment, I think.

[Happyfatchick]

After re-reading the Michael Seewald Blog, it still sets my teeth on edge.  

Is this actually something M. Seewald posted, or the quote they posted earlier yesterday from Huckabee?

Have the Duggars enlisted the Seewalds to be their face of defense, at least for the moment? Nothing directly from a Duggar at all yet, is this still correct?

That's a little surprising because Ben has been relatively outspoken on many other issues.

[Muffyn]

After re-reading the Michael Seewald Blog, it still sets my teeth on edge.  Basically he:

1. Blasts the media for "throwing stones" at the family of his meal ticket, Ben.

2. Says that Josh admitted his sin, has repented and reformed.  NO proof though.

3. Lets us know that we need him to bring "context" to the whole situation. 

4. He praises Michelle and Jim Bob for their godly and healing parenting.

5. He says dont forget the victims. Oh yeah, "People were Affected". 

6. He says the Duggers didn't hide anything, yet then says they did. Because it was their dirty laundry. And nobody should know about it. 

7. He then quotes scripture about how everybody sins. 

8. Now we move on to youthful lust, rampant STDs and more sin.

9. He then mentions the Duggars aren't perfect parents, but they excel. Really.

10. Now he points out we're all no better than Josh with our sinning ways.

11. More bible verses to tell us we can't condem somebody like Josh, who has repented.

12. He states his family stands with the Duggars. Oh yes, and the unnamed victims.

13. Then he says to the victims, "Speak Up". This is good. Too little too late, but good.

14. Lastly, he says Jesus will make everything ok for everybody. 

Sadly I think those few small crumbs of real concern for the girls in this situation are buried so far underneath a steaming pile of sanctimonious crap and self-serving rhetoric.  I could never credit him with supporting the victims with this, just himself and his family.  

 

Sadly, the victims are now his family too. 

Just adding 15. He implies that the victims feel guilty and need to work through their guilt.  

[Found A Peanut]

Th Duggar parents did alert the proper authorities.

One year later

I think it's stretching things to consider the "stern talking to" that Josh got from Jim Bob's buddy the pedo state trooper as alerting the proper authorities. A little scare talk and no paper trail. Jim Bob refusing to produce Josh for an interview and threatening to lawyer up when the actual police investigation happened three years later goes to the heart of what his real intentions were, in my opinion. What surprise is it that a homeschooling, home churching patriarch thinks that crime and punishment are also within his jurisdiction?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Found A Peanut

[fliptopbox]

Just adding 15. He implies that the victims feel guilty and need to work through their guilt.  

That's not terribly uncommon though, especially for young kids who don't know really how to process what happened. I was assaulted as a young teen by a boy close to my age and even though I knew rationally it wasn't my fault it didn't stop feelings of guilt and shame just because I knew it was wrong, and it was something I definitely didn't want to talk about with parents or any adults in general. In fact, I didn't tell anyone of note about it til I was almost 10yrs older, although among my peers rumors flew like crazy, especially once I virtually disappeared from school. By then it was over and I had moved on, the only time I ever felt rage or anything past the age of 20 was when I ran into him at a bar, and he tried hitting on me. It was the ultimate feeling of revulsion that kept me from punching him in the face.

[leighdear]

Is this actually something M. Seewald posted, or the quote they posted earlier yesterday from Huckabee?

His family blog.  http://seewalds.com/grace-greater-than-our-sin/

 

And obviously my interpretation of his comments are biased, because I think he's a hypocritical tool. I'm neither godly, nor forgiving.

Edited May 24, 2015 by leighdear

[kathe5133]

This clears up my timeline issues regarding the FOI and the request to destroy the record to protect the minor.

 

Someone put together a timeline? Really? I had a much longer post about this, but I couldn't find the right words to not sound insensitive, so I concluded I was being insensitive. But, it creeps me out that the Washington Post actually compiled and published a timeline.

[bluebonnet]

Several agencies have created timelines, and much of the discussion here has revolved around the timeline of things.  It's an important tool to use in understanding how this happened, how it went unpunished, what the network could have done differently, whether or not the network knew, etc.  I mean, one of the major issues is that charges were never filed against Josh, and the timeline is important in understanding why and can help change backwards laws in some places.  

[Found A Peanut]

That's not terribly uncommon though, especially for young kids who don't know really how to process what happened. I was assaulted as a young teen by a boy close to my age and even though I knew rationally it wasn't my fault it didn't stop feelings of guilt and shame just because I knew it was wrong, and it was something I definitely didn't want to talk about with parents or any adults in general. In fact, I didn't tell anyone of note about it til I was almost 10yrs older, although among my peers rumors flew like crazy, especially once I virtually disappeared from school. By then it was over and I had moved on, the only time I ever felt rage or anything past the age of 20 was when I ran into him at a bar, and he tried hitting on me. It was the ultimate feeling of revulsion that kept me from punching him in the face.

You are so strong. I am freaking out even reading this.