Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[GinnyMars]

I feel the same way re: "a river of anger and sadness". I'm remembering different things about different 19KAC episodes -- Jim Boob and J-Chelle's dry humping at the mini golf course. Jim Boob had to stand on the platform to tell Jilly Muffin and derickdillard they could kiss. J-Chelle's flipping out that Jessa held hands with Bin while they prayed, or her wrestling Josie back into her little "modesty" jacket. SERIOUSLY? So many instances of no boundaries and an absolutely weird and unhealthy obsession with sexuality.

 

This made me think of this blog post from an ex-Quiverfull woman about the concept of extreme modesty and why it's completely effed up: Excessive Modesty makes me feel objectified.

[JoanArc]

Josh's 'room' was a work nook, not a bedroom. I think you can see it in the scene where he's calling Mr Keller for permission to marry Anna.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2b1uMscilQ

 

At around 4:30 he calls the boys dorm 'our bedroom'. I'm sure someone can count the beds and compare to the number of kids at the time.

 

It is telling that they moved his ass out of the house almost as soon as they moved in though.

Edited May 24, 2015 by JoanArc

[direpup]

I'm still firmly in the camp that more sex stuff will come out. I really doubt 5 separate incidents with 5 separate people was it. Not by a long shot.

 

Agreed. I have already read a few articles, quoting psychologists who state Josh's actions constitute learned behavior.  Storms of scrutiny will rain down on the Duggar family.  Tip of the iceberg, etc. 

 

OK I'm done with the weather metaphors LOL.

Edited May 24, 2015 by direpup

[truthtalk2014]

THIS!!!! That is exactly what I've been saying. No one wants Boob as in-law.

I thought one of the Bates boys- Zach I believe- asked to court Jana but that she turned him down.

 

I'm with the other poster that believes that we have not heard of every case of abuse.  

[3 is enough]

 

I'm still firmly in the camp that more sex stuff will come out. I really doubt 5 separate incidents with 5 separate people was it. Not by a long shot.

Sadly, I agree.  I am just sad. Sad for those poor girls who did nothing wrong and have to keep sweet while their worst nightmare has become public knowledge. Sad that so many people are excusing this as an act of teenage stupidity. Sad that there are churches out there who are still willing to pay this family to give their "testimony". 

[doodlebug]

I'm still firmly in the camp that more sex stuff will come out. I really doubt 5 separate incidents with 5 separate people was it. Not by a long shot.

 

I have no doubt this is going to happen sooner than later.  There's no way it was just 5, however, because of the fundie code of silence about this stuff, it would be hard for someone in their circle to come forward.  The Duggar virtually never mix with anyone other than their own kind of fundies.  If Josh molested one of their kids, the message probably would've been the same as the Duggar girls were most likely given.  Josh confessed to the church and Jesus forgave him. That's that and the girl would also be interrogated about what she did to stir his lust.  And told that if she ever brought it up again, she would be ostracized.  Their 'faith' is the center of their lives, all of their relationships and their livelihood in many cases, is intertwined with it.  For someone who is still fundie to come forward will mean the loss of virtually everything and everyone in her life.  It is unlikely to happen.

 

However, rumor has it that Joshie frequented strip clubs and such prior to his marriage.  If that is the case, there are folks in the secular world who know he didn't repent and didn't curb his lustful ways..  Those of us in the real world wouldn't much care if a young guy hung out on the seamier side of things.  And, based on what we've heard about Josh, as well as other fundies, chances are he wasn't the sort to look and not touch.  There may well be a wanton woman or 10 out there with some stories to tell and I suspect we'll be hearing from them soon.

 

This story is the tip of a very large, very ugly iceberg methinks.  And Josh and his parents are sittin' in deck chairs on the Titanic as 'Nearer my God to Thee' is playing.

Edited May 24, 2015 by doodlebug

[Kcat1971]

Wanderwoman, I really like the idea of what you posted about supporting the Duggar sisters with a donation to Stop it Now. I just changed my Amazon Smile account over from a previous charity to Stop It Now. 

 

Great idea!

[Zung Li]

I've noticed that in the comments I've read on other sites there are a lot of people who didn't read the report or the articles with timelines, etc. There seems to be misinformation being put out deliberately. Many people are saying they turned him in, everyone got help, he was only 12, etc.

[Blergh]

Agree with everyone here re Josh himself and I'm afraid I'd explode my server if I got started. As to Anna, I wonder if it's possible that she may have liked the idea of being the 'heir appearant's wife' [and therefore outranking every other female save Michelle] and wanting to reap the bounty of being on the Dugger gravy train enough to be oblivious to what the victims went through despite her fiance fessing and the crimes being common knowledge in their circle? If that's so, then her own kids would have every reason to hate her forever almost as much as Josh and the rest of those complicit in the crimes.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Blergh

[RazzleberryPie]

I've noticed that in the comments I've read on other sites there are a lot of people who didn't read the report or the articles with timelines, etc. There seems to be misinformation being put out deliberately. Many people are saying they turned him in, everyone got help, he was only 12, etc.

The most idiotic comments I've seen come from here:  http://www.aboverubies.net/2015/05/the-duggars-whats-in-name.html?m=1

 

So basically the nothing anyone said (police report, those interviewed, etc.,) was real or true, everything is speculation, but Josh repenting is the whole truth, and blames the evil liberal media.

[fliptopbox]

I thought one of the Bates boys- Zach I believe- asked to court Jana but that she turned him down.

 

I'm with the other poster that believes that we have not heard of every case of abuse.  

I wouldn't be surprised if Jana didn't turn Zach down, but JB did. Jana may have never heard about the request until it was too late. Wouldn't surprise me at all...JB is protecting his prized nanny. I question if he would ever let Jana court (or date...whatever she wants) because she basically runs their household and they all know it.

 

I'm also guessing this "leak" is only the tip of the iceberg. Chances are the Duggars have everyone they know who could say a single word against them on lockdown.

[Julia]

The most idiotic comments I've seen come from here:  

http://www.aboverubies.net/2015/05/the-duggars-whats-in-name.html?m=1

 

So basically the nothing anyone said (police report, those interviewed, etc.,) was real or true, everything is speculation, but Josh repenting is the whole truth, and blames the evil liberal media.

 

Not planning on going over there, because I expect it'll break my brain more than I can afford, but if everything everyone said isn't real or true, what is Josh repenting for?

[leighdear]

After re-reading the Michael Seewald Blog, it still sets my teeth on edge.  Basically he:

1. Blasts the media for "throwing stones" at the family of his meal ticket, Ben.
2. Says that Josh admitted his sin, has repented and reformed.  NO proof though.
3. Lets us know that we need him to bring "context" to the whole situation. 
4. He praises Michelle and Jim Bob for their godly and healing parenting.
5. He says dont forget the victims. Oh yeah, "People were Affected". 
6. He says the Duggers didn't hide anything, yet then says they did. Because it was their dirty laundry. And nobody should know about it. 
7. He then quotes scripture about how everybody sins. 
8. Now we move on to youthful lust, rampant STDs and more sin.
9. He then mentions the Duggars aren't perfect parents, but they excel. Really.
10. Now he points out we're all no better than Josh with our sinning ways.
11. More bible verses to tell us we can't condem somebody like Josh, who has repented.
12. He states his family stands with the Duggars. Oh yes, and the unnamed victims.
13. Then he says to the victims, "Speak Up". This is good. Too little too late, but good.
14. Lastly, he says Jesus will make everything ok for everybody. 

Sadly I think those few small crumbs of real concern for the girls in this situation are buried so far underneath a steaming pile of sanctimonious crap and self-serving rhetoric.  I could never credit him with supporting the victims with this, just himself and his family.  

 

Sadly, the victims are now his family too. 

[NextIteration]

This clears up my timeline issues regarding the FOI and the request to destroy the record to protect the minor.

 

WaPo has a good timeline that makes it clear how things unfolded.

[Rhondinella]

Ya'll know that right now the LAW & ORDER: SVU writers are chipping away at their keyboards for their "ripped from the headlines" version of this story.

 

And if it doesn't show up in a thinly veiled version on The Good Wife I'll be shocked.

[fliptopbox]

Not planning on going over there, because I expect it'll break my brain more than I can afford, but if everything everyone said isn't real or true, what is Josh repenting for?

I would like to know the answer to that as well. If he already repented and feels truly absolved then why apologize again?

 

Oh wait.. He was just paying lip service before, as a snotty teenage kid. Now he feels what it's like to be truly caught for something. Probably for the first time in his life people aren't blindly praising everything he says and does because he's a Duggar. 

[dillpickles]

This whole thing makes me sad. I have some vague memory of way back when they moved into the house and gave the viewers (I am a viewer, not a fan) a tour that the girls had their dorm room and the boys had their dorm room, but Josh had his own room. Did I dream that? Can anyone recall?

I think he had his own videography room, not a bedroom. Not too sure though.

[leighdear]

I just keep reminding myself of my historian friends always tells me.  We weren't there so we don't know.

I had a history professor that always said "History is not necessarily what happened, but what actually got written down".  Same kind of sentiment, I think.

[Happyfatchick]

After re-reading the Michael Seewald Blog, it still sets my teeth on edge.  

Is this actually something M. Seewald posted, or the quote they posted earlier yesterday from Huckabee?

Have the Duggars enlisted the Seewalds to be their face of defense, at least for the moment? Nothing directly from a Duggar at all yet, is this still correct?

That's a little surprising because Ben has been relatively outspoken on many other issues.

[Muffyn]

After re-reading the Michael Seewald Blog, it still sets my teeth on edge.  Basically he:

1. Blasts the media for "throwing stones" at the family of his meal ticket, Ben.

2. Says that Josh admitted his sin, has repented and reformed.  NO proof though.

3. Lets us know that we need him to bring "context" to the whole situation. 

4. He praises Michelle and Jim Bob for their godly and healing parenting.

5. He says dont forget the victims. Oh yeah, "People were Affected". 

6. He says the Duggers didn't hide anything, yet then says they did. Because it was their dirty laundry. And nobody should know about it. 

7. He then quotes scripture about how everybody sins. 

8. Now we move on to youthful lust, rampant STDs and more sin.

9. He then mentions the Duggars aren't perfect parents, but they excel. Really.

10. Now he points out we're all no better than Josh with our sinning ways.

11. More bible verses to tell us we can't condem somebody like Josh, who has repented.

12. He states his family stands with the Duggars. Oh yes, and the unnamed victims.

13. Then he says to the victims, "Speak Up". This is good. Too little too late, but good.

14. Lastly, he says Jesus will make everything ok for everybody. 

Sadly I think those few small crumbs of real concern for the girls in this situation are buried so far underneath a steaming pile of sanctimonious crap and self-serving rhetoric.  I could never credit him with supporting the victims with this, just himself and his family.  

 

Sadly, the victims are now his family too. 

Just adding 15. He implies that the victims feel guilty and need to work through their guilt.  

[Found A Peanut]

Th Duggar parents did alert the proper authorities.

One year later

I think it's stretching things to consider the "stern talking to" that Josh got from Jim Bob's buddy the pedo state trooper as alerting the proper authorities. A little scare talk and no paper trail. Jim Bob refusing to produce Josh for an interview and threatening to lawyer up when the actual police investigation happened three years later goes to the heart of what his real intentions were, in my opinion. What surprise is it that a homeschooling, home churching patriarch thinks that crime and punishment are also within his jurisdiction?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Found A Peanut

[fliptopbox]

Just adding 15. He implies that the victims feel guilty and need to work through their guilt.  

That's not terribly uncommon though, especially for young kids who don't know really how to process what happened. I was assaulted as a young teen by a boy close to my age and even though I knew rationally it wasn't my fault it didn't stop feelings of guilt and shame just because I knew it was wrong, and it was something I definitely didn't want to talk about with parents or any adults in general. In fact, I didn't tell anyone of note about it til I was almost 10yrs older, although among my peers rumors flew like crazy, especially once I virtually disappeared from school. By then it was over and I had moved on, the only time I ever felt rage or anything past the age of 20 was when I ran into him at a bar, and he tried hitting on me. It was the ultimate feeling of revulsion that kept me from punching him in the face.

[leighdear]

Is this actually something M. Seewald posted, or the quote they posted earlier yesterday from Huckabee?

His family blog.  http://seewalds.com/grace-greater-than-our-sin/

 

And obviously my interpretation of his comments are biased, because I think he's a hypocritical tool. I'm neither godly, nor forgiving.

Edited May 24, 2015 by leighdear

[kathe5133]

This clears up my timeline issues regarding the FOI and the request to destroy the record to protect the minor.

 

Someone put together a timeline? Really? I had a much longer post about this, but I couldn't find the right words to not sound insensitive, so I concluded I was being insensitive. But, it creeps me out that the Washington Post actually compiled and published a timeline.

[bluebonnet]

Several agencies have created timelines, and much of the discussion here has revolved around the timeline of things.  It's an important tool to use in understanding how this happened, how it went unpunished, what the network could have done differently, whether or not the network knew, etc.  I mean, one of the major issues is that charges were never filed against Josh, and the timeline is important in understanding why and can help change backwards laws in some places.  

[Found A Peanut]

That's not terribly uncommon though, especially for young kids who don't know really how to process what happened. I was assaulted as a young teen by a boy close to my age and even though I knew rationally it wasn't my fault it didn't stop feelings of guilt and shame just because I knew it was wrong, and it was something I definitely didn't want to talk about with parents or any adults in general. In fact, I didn't tell anyone of note about it til I was almost 10yrs older, although among my peers rumors flew like crazy, especially once I virtually disappeared from school. By then it was over and I had moved on, the only time I ever felt rage or anything past the age of 20 was when I ran into him at a bar, and he tried hitting on me. It was the ultimate feeling of revulsion that kept me from punching him in the face.

You are so strong. I am freaking out even reading this.

[Oldernowiser]

This clears up my timeline issues regarding the FOI and the request to destroy the record to protect the minor.

 

WaPo has a good timeline that makes it clear how things unfolded.

Back the truck up...there was a trial???? From that article...

"The same year, a reporter for the Northwest Arkansas Times, who now works for the Democrat-Gazette, finds a court document for a case titled Josh Duggar vs. the Arkansas Department of Human Services. The Democrat-Gazette reports:

A trial in that case took place Aug. 6, 2007, according to notes attached to the file. Sealed cases aren’t supposed to be left in public view, but the Duggar case file had been left in a stack of routine court filings at the circuit clerk’s office. The reporter saw no other information on the case at the time.

According to the Democrat-Gazette, the reporter asked Jim Bob and Josh Duggar about the trial at the time, but they declined to comment."

[CofCinci]

 

This clears up my timeline issues regarding the FOI and the request to destroy the record to protect the minor.

 

Someone put together a timeline? Really? I had a much longer post about this, but I couldn't find the right words to not sound insensitive, so I concluded I was being insensitive. But, it creeps me out that the Washington Post actually compiled and published a timeline.

 

Conspiracy types are speculating that the mainstream media is latching onto Duggargate to distract the masses from more important news stories likes the Trans-Pacific Partnership, Jade Helm, Rand Paul's filibuster or even the various marches against Monsanto this weekend.

[Darknight]

The most idiotic comments I've seen come from here: http://www.aboverubies.net/2015/05/the-duggars-whats-in-name.html?m=1

So basically the nothing anyone said (police report, those interviewed, etc.,) was real or true, everything is speculation, but Josh repenting is the whole truth, and blames the evil liberal media.

This stupid idiot. Rape victims have to live with it everyday it's brought up again every single day. A smell touch object, flashback will be in their mind. I can't with the thumpers. They're just so mad that their favorite christian family could do this

[fliptopbox]

 

That's not terribly uncommon though, especially for young kids who don't know really how to process what happened. I was assaulted as a young teen by a boy close to my age and even though I knew rationally it wasn't my fault it didn't stop feelings of guilt and shame just because I knew it was wrong, and it was something I definitely didn't want to talk about with parents or any adults in general. In fact, I didn't tell anyone of note about it til I was almost 10yrs older, although among my peers rumors flew like crazy, especially once I virtually disappeared from school. By then it was over and I had moved on, the only time I ever felt rage or anything past the age of 20 was when I ran into him at a bar, and he tried hitting on me. It was the ultimate feeling of revulsion that kept me from punching him in the face.

You are so strong. I am freaking out even reading this.

Thanks. At the time it was utterly terrible and mortifying, especially once kids at school started asking about it and it hit the rumor mill hardcore. The guy was also a super popular skater guy who was actually pretty hot. But he was a colossal douchebag (obviously) and ery arrogant. His father was a sheriff with the local police too, so this guy never had consequences for anything while he was a teenager.  After the attack he actually threatened me with a knife, at a school bus stop with like 6 other people around less than a week later. He was going to slit my throat, on the end of a cul de sac at 330pm. Fucking crazy shit.

 

Luckily he's now in jail for domestic violence towards his wife and kids. Karma, man. Love it.

 

I'm glad I was able to work through it in my own way, let go, and move on....any type of forced forgiveness would be worthless and is totally beneath my character.

 

I also have my Amazon Smile account to donate to RAINN.

Edited May 24, 2015 by fliptopbox

[millk]

New to the thread but reading along.

 

I've noticed that in the comments I've read on other sites there are a lot of people who didn't read the report or the articles with timelines, etc. There seems to be misinformation being put out deliberately. Many people are saying they turned him in, everyone got help, he was only 12, etc.

 

I'm seeing two camps of people who aren't reading beyond a headline or their facebook sidebar (which still says allegations) . One being people who aren't particularly religious but "love" the show because of the weddings and babies and are sad it isn't on anymore. (both people I know online and IRL) and the other being Christians who are in the "because Jesus" mode. 

[CofCinci]

Back the truck up...there was a trial???? From that article...

"The same year, a reporter for the Northwest Arkansas Times, who now works for the Democrat-Gazette, finds a court document for a case titled Josh Duggar vs. the Arkansas Department of Human Services. The Democrat-Gazette reports:

A trial in that case took place Aug. 6, 2007, according to notes attached to the file. Sealed cases aren’t supposed to be left in public view, but the Duggar case file had been left in a stack of routine court filings at the circuit clerk’s office. The reporter saw no other information on the case at the time.

According to the Democrat-Gazette, the reporter asked Jim Bob and Josh Duggar about the trial at the time, but they declined to comment."

This is a major development! Hopefully more is found out about this 2007 trial.

[autumnh]

I recall that as well, but I actually put it off as how Josh always seemed to be the pampered prince as the eldest

 

Looking back now, I wonder if they treated him that way because they feared he MIGHT continue to engage in that behavior still or potentially reoffend. He always came across as the "special one" to his parents...now we know why, sadly.

[Zung Li]

Remember that "Alice" commenter from 2007 said they had to go to court every 6 months or something like that (once DHS was involved) so that must be what the court documents were about.

 

ETA: I re-read the Alice comment. She says they went to court in April and now they have to report to DHS every 6 months. Some reporter needs to track her down because she was right about them going to court and seems to be a treasure trove of information.

Edited May 24, 2015 by mingming

[merylinkid]

I actually don't have a problem with JB lawyering up.   It's what we WANT people to do when facing legal consequences.   Because trust me, even smart people fuck up the law, let alone someone like JB who only thinks about sex.   My problem is with the authorities who said "oh lawyer involved, let's stop now."   REALLY????   Like they've never dealt with defense lawyers before?   The state trooper they reported to, should have realized this required more than a stern talking to.   But then I still wonder about his motives here.

 

Also, to go on with Wanderwoman's suggestion, I asked Alison Arngrim over on twitter what groups she recommeds.   Her twitter feed now includes a TON of organizations.   Find one you agree with and go for it.   I believe she works directly with PROTECT.   

[SadForTheJSlaves]

New to posting here but I had to get an account, I've been desperately sad for days since reading the Police Report.

 

I have a question: does anyone think the whistle-blower (or the person who loaned the book out, which 'coincidentally' had the damning letter in there) knew that the Statute was due to run out fairly soon and was therefore trying to ensure there were consequences before it did? And could it be possible that J Boob and MEchelle hired the lawyer and postponed meetings etc. in order to ensure that the Statute ran out before there could be consequences?

 

If this was the case, it makes me even more sick.

[JennyMominFL]

What exactly do we know about the letter in the book?

[SometimesBites]

The Duggars and their ilk are a bunch of deeply ignorant, self-righteous, bigots. The trouble is, the longer they rode the TLC gravy train, the more cocky they got about hammering others with whom they disagree. But as the old saying goes, the higher the monkey climbs, the more he expose.

[Found A Peanut]

Thanks. At the time it was utterly terrible and mortifying, especially once kids at school started asking about it and it hit the rumor mill hardcore. The guy was also a super popular skater guy who was actually pretty hot. But he was a colossal douchebag (obviously) and ery arrogant. His father was a sheriff with the local police too, so this guy never had consequences for anything while he was a teenager.  After the attack he actually threatened me with a knife, at a school bus stop with like 6 other people around less than a week later. He was going to slit my throat, on the end of a cul de sac at 330pm. Fucking crazy shit.

 

Luckily he's now in jail for domestic violence towards his wife and kids. Karma, man. Love it.

 

I'm glad I was able to work through it in my own way, let go, and move on....any type of forced forgiveness would be worthless and is totally beneath my character.

 

I also have my Amazon Smile account to donate to RAINN.

What a creep. Being handed everything just isn't enough for some people. I'm so happy for you that you were able to process things and move on. Joyous life to you.

I need to look into this Amazon Smile thing people are talking about. I pretty much never pay any attention to my Amazon account, but it sounds like something useful is happening.

[lilabennet]

One of the most frustrating things for me is that Duggar supporters keep harping that the parents turned Josh in (they didn't) and they got both Josh and his victims "counseling" (they didn't).

 

"Counseling" is a very ambiguous word.  A person could have a heart to heart talk with their grandmother and they would not be lying if they said they had received "counseling".  Any idiot can hang a shingle outside their door or place an ad in the paper claiming to be a therapist.  There is no regulatory body overseeing "therapists".

 

What these children needed was to see a licensed clinical psychologist (a position that it is illegal to claim to hold if you do not, unlike therapist), but their supporters think they have received all the "counseling" they needed.  It makes my blood boil.

[kathe5133]

Conspiracy types are speculating that the mainstream media is latching onto Duggargate to distract the masses from more important news stories likes the Trans-Pacific Partnership, Jade Helm, Rand Paul's filibuster or even the various marches against Monsanto this weekend.

Oh my God that made me laugh out loud! It's the Iluminati! What is worse than the Duggars? Conspiracy Theorists! They are bat shit crazy and I could totally believe they would get on board with that notion! I live with one. She's got some search engine ("they" are monitoring her google account) and YouTube. She has found a cure for cancer, but she'd need a pound of pot to prove it so.... And any day now her combined "resources" of search engine, facebook and YouTube will unearth who was behind the plot that killed JFK! Thank you for that. That was what was getting under my skin about the timeline, I realize now. It was shades of what goes on in my house 24/7. Timelines, quotes, and proof, all without leaving the house! I guess folks need to process, and knowing the facts helps them do that. Thank you for saying that!

[neural-plasticity]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/05/anna-duggar-and-the-silencing-power-of-forgiveness.html

Here is something Josh said when he was courting Anna. Okay so if I had read this at the time, I would have just assumed that he felt some girls up from his church group, as that is certainly how it sounds. This is what is so sick about the Duggar's beliefs. It seems quite clear from this statement that Josh considers molesting his sister as she sleeps as the same level of wicked as having a consensual make out session with someone you're own age. Both are just "temptations". The male is tempted and the female is the one doing the tempting. One of Josh's sisters was a bad girl who tempted him while she was sleeping.

I dunno, that is the idea I am getting from what he said there. Somewhere in that whole thing is the implication of an evil temptress. If he said that publicly just a couple of years after the ordeal, then I cannot imagine how horrible his victims must have felt at that moment.

It's funny, because the sermon at my church this morning was on temptation. The pastor did NOT bring up this topic or the Duggars, but my mind really couldn't stop going back to this situation. However, like many people have already said, touching your little sisters in an inappropriate manner is a whole different temptation than wanting to use swear words...

[autumnh]

Conspiracy types are speculating that the mainstream media is latching onto Duggargate to distract the masses from more important news stories likes the Trans-Pacific Partnership, Jade Helm, Rand Paul's filibuster or even the various marches against Monsanto this weekend.

 

Truth.

 

The tin foil hatters on my FB are all up in arms.

 

They believe liberals have made a big deal out of this because well...BENGHAZI.

 

I just can't anymore..between that and the idiots who are defending the Duggars with btw, THE most ridiculous posts is just making my brain want to explode.

 

I am so glad to be amongst feel GOOD human beings who I think have approached and reacted very intelligently and with great emotion for the victims. Yeah, we snark but we're pretty good people too.

[parisprincess]

I just a question:  If girls are to remain pure so they can be given to "godly" men for marriage, can Josh still consider himself godly after having his hands on parts of his sisters' bodies that are supposed to be untouched until their wedding night?  Wouldn't a "godly" man be one who has also kept himself pure?  Looks like poor Anna got stuck with damaged goods!

 

How clever of old man Gothard to make messing with young girls' bodies no big thing as long as the girls keep their "soul" pure.  Of course that's only accepted if the offending guy is a member of his cult.  I'm sure anyone outside their circle isn't forgiven for such behavior.  How in the hell do these perverts manage to find so many kool-aid drinkers who buy their shit?      

[trimthatfat]

Mr. Seewald's blog is just laughable. The fact that he would dedicate one paragraph to the victims and the rest to Josh and the idea of forgiveness is so ridiculous.

 

 
Someone put together a timeline? Really? I had a much longer post about this, but I couldn't find the right words to not sound insensitive, so I concluded I was being insensitive. But, it creeps me out that the Washington Post actually compiled and published a timeline.

It creeps me out, too. I just feel like putting together a detailed timeline and/or trying to find out the names of the victims is just so...IDK. I feel like it's intended to satisfy the curiosity of the public when it really doesn't help any of the victims. 

[neural-plasticity]

Jessica Seewald also came out in defense of the abuser, now Pa Seewald posts this:

http://seewalds.com/grace-greater-than-our-sin/

If Josh was a non-Christian minority, I imagine they'd be screaming to string him up.

Of course they're going the support the Duggars and their show. The family and show has been supporting their son for the last two years. If they speak out, they risk Bin's gig in the show (if it continues). *eye roll*

[msblossom]

That's not terribly uncommon though, especially for young kids who don't know really how to process what happened. I was assaulted as a young teen by a boy close to my age and even though I knew rationally it wasn't my fault it didn't stop feelings of guilt and shame just because I knew it was wrong, and it was something I definitely didn't want to talk about with parents or any adults in general. In fact, I didn't tell anyone of note about it til I was almost 10yrs older, although among my peers rumors flew like crazy, especially once I virtually disappeared from school. By then it was over and I had moved on, the only time I ever felt rage or anything past the age of 20 was when I ran into him at a bar, and he tried hitting on me. It was the ultimate feeling of revulsion that kept me from punching him in the face.

Wow fliptopbox, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I rarely speak about it and have never put it out there in a public forum, but I actually have a similar experience, although it was two guys in my case. I was 15, and they were 17 & 18 and it happened in the woods at a senior keg party. I don't want to get off topic, but it's something that I didn't get counseling for until I was 17 and I continued to work through it for years later, even as recently as 2 years ago in marriage counseling. I believe for anyone who experiences sexual assault, it's not a one and done in terms of counseling. It's a process that happens over one's lifetime. There are many triggers.

[leighdear]

@lilabennett,

 

The same with the word "authorities".  We know with these people it actually means "twisted and perverted old religious dudes that overlook misogynistic acts", while the uninformed thinks it means Law Enforcement Officials. 

[JenCarroll]

Mr. Seewald's blog is just laughable. The fact that he would dedicate one paragraph to the victims and the rest to Josh and the idea of forgiveness is so ridiculous.

 

It creeps me out, too. I just feel like putting together a detailed timeline and/or trying to find out the names of the victims is just so...IDK. I feel like it's intended to satisfy the curiosity of the public when it really doesn't help any of the victims.

But with so many people just making up their own versions of events, I think it's not a bad thing to have a reputable news organization put together something that's as accurate as it can be with current information. At least there's something to point to when idiots try to sell people a revised, more pro-Josh narrative.

[JoanArc]

 

A trial in that case took place Aug. 6, 2007, according to notes attached to the file. Sealed cases aren’t supposed to be left in public view, but the Duggar case file had been left in a stack of routine court filings at the circuit clerk’s office. The reporter saw no other information on the case at the time.

Oh dear. Josh would've been around 18 or 19 at that time, correct? *not a lawyer* Could he still have been tracked for juvenile offenses? I think a trial opens a lot of possibilities. All bad. Plus the records were sealed. FFS Anna, please get an annulment. God hates divorce. He loves annulments!

Edited May 24, 2015 by JoanArc