Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[crazycatlady58]

Just now, BetyBee said:

Meech will have to make a phone call to the warden, explaining in her baby voice that Josh will not be safe around "those people". 

Or to remind the warden he cannot have a woman in authority over him.

[CountryGirl]

3 hours ago, smittykins said:

It’s more than I expected, but less than he deserves(he should’ve gotten the full 20, IMHO).

Agreed. When I consider he had no less than 725 CSA images in his possession, he got off very, very easy. 

[Minivanessa]

Scott Reish Reisch, a criminal lawyer who IMO does good stuff on YT, analyzed the potential sentencing in this case a year ago, in a YT video which I think was posted here, was right on about the sentencing. 

Here's his video today. He discusses this case starting at the 6:27 point in the video. Among other things, he's read the defense's sentencing letters. He calls them among "the worst sentencing letters I've ever seen." And says he may use them in his live session tonight, to discuss what the defense should NOT do in a sentencing, lol. That session is underway and I haven't joined it to see if indeed he's done that. He has fun with the pronunciation of "Duggar," because when FF was first arrested, he kept saying "Doogar" and everybody piled on about how it's pronounced, LOL.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Jeeves
Added that his analysis was a year ago. And fixed the spelling of his name.

[Ijustwantsomechips]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Didn't they claim he was working in the family house business now in one of those letters? My guess is Jim Bob is now funneling money to them that way, and it counts as income but still means they're financially dependent on Jim Bob. But you're definitely right that they're not waiving the fees, so they saw some indication he has the means to pay.

Didn’t they make a tidy profit off the sale of their last house?

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Didn’t they make a tidy profit off the sale of their last house?

It's quite possible! I have not kept close track of Duggar real estate dealings for a while! @crazy8s will know!

[Salacious Kitty]

18 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

Didn’t they make a tidy profit off the sale of their last house?

Yes, they did. I think they bought it for well under $100k, sold for well over that. It's been several years, so I can't recall the exact figures. But yeah, they made some bank there. 

[jcbrown]

1 hour ago, lovesnark said:

Oh, how I wish someone would read this to Clown Car! Knowing her precious first born was being housed with and sharing yard time with transgender people would make her have to take a triple dose of whatever meds she's on. Maybe she'd even be moved to write a letter to the warden about it.

Oooh, or maybe she could make a robocall about it! Because that never bit her in her dumb ass.

[crazy8s]

the house with the indoor pool sold in sept 2021 for $450,000. It was owned by one of Anna's now dissolved llcs. So there was probably no money in FF's name from that sale.

Interesting thing i learned today is both Josh and Anna changed their voter registration address last Nov. to the same little building next to the big warehouse. That address is also the address listed for Duggar Realty and where Matthew Waller apparently once lived  long enough to register to vote in AR.

[LilyD]

I'm glad he's going to be locked up for quite some time. But what spoils the joy for me is all the pro-Duggar pleas and letters. Yes, it was to be expected but still... None of them acknowledged the severity of what he did. They refuse to accept that this man is a very real threat to children. It scares me, it really does.

In a way, that makes them all almost as dangerous as Josh. You can't protect kids if you cannot won't recognise and stop potential (or in this case very obvious) danger.... 

[CalicoKitty]

I think JB has been filtering assets through LLCs in Anna's name.  Wasn't money in Josh's name transfered to LLCs in Anna's name since this scandal broke?  I think it was posted here somewhere.  I guess that scheme didn't work so well.  I really wonder if this will lead to an investigation into JB's finances, as well as his attorney's.  When I first saw that Josh was arrested, I thought it was money laundering of some kind.

[quarks]

As a sorta sidenote to all this, what does it say about Pa Keller that he was able to write a letter to the judge explaining that Josh once sold a used car with a transmission that had to be completely replaced within a couple of years, but couldn't come to be with his daughter during Josh's sentencing?

[Nysha]

I'm sure Pa Keller has the same opinion JB does, that if Anna had been a better wife this would not have happened. She's brought shame to the House of Keller and must appropriately atone before he graces her with his presence. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Ma and Pa Keller are garbage humans. It says something when Prissy's marriage to David Waller is the best set up they machinated. Esther's husband? Loser. Smuggar? Convicted felon. Rebekah's first husband? Divorced. Nathan? Married a Rod. I think the other two brothers met their wives independently of their parents, so I won't add them here. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Sorry for the piggy back posts, but I thought this needed a separate one. Bobye Holt speaks out. 

[sagittarius sue]

7 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Sorry for the piggy back posts, but I thought this needed a separate one. Bobye Holt speaks out. 

Wow, I am really impressed.  A Duggar associate has written a very truthful statement and with relevant Christian references.  It is worth so much more than anything Amy posted.

[CalicoKitty]

How is it that a WOMAN in this cult has the nerve, and autonomy, to post her actual opinion?  I am impressed.

[Lady Whistleup]

I like that Joy went to court herself. Joy has more spunk than I expected. I understand the decision of the other sisters to stay away, but it's still awesome that Joy went there to watch her abuser get sent to jail.

[Tuxcat]

37 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Sorry for the piggy back posts, but I thought this needed a separate one. Bobye Holt speaks out. 

Happy for them to share their opinion. It's a start. Still problematic for me that they are somehow equating "cheating/porn" and Josh's "masauqrading as a god fearing man" with the actual charge. They are happy he got his sentence -  they were horrified by the hypocrisy of Josh.  The problem for me is that Josh was convicted of seeking, downloading and viewing material of the most  heinous kind. No mention of this? To me the sentence represents a small sense of justice for victims. I could care less if he was a hypocrite - that's just the icing. For the Holts it seems to be the cake.

[Salacious Kitty]

Bobye wasn't there for the entire trial. I don't know if she's aware of the heinous nature of the material Smuggar viewed. Fundies are always going to gravitate towards adult porn as an addiction and adultery as a mortal sin. That's to be expected. I think the CSAM angle has thrown them for a loop. 

[jcbrown]

I wish she had mentioned the molestations in her statement but at least she testified to them, which mattered more in terms of the outcome.

[iwantcookies]

I don’t think ma and Pa Keller would take Anna in. They will not put her in a trailer in the backyard. Anna is on her own. 

JB and Mi are getting old and will spend the $ on themselves. Feeding Anna plus 7 has to cost at least $1000 a month plus the supplies. She probably needs at least $1500 a month to survive. Who knows how long she will be supported!

[iwantcookies]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Ma and Pa Keller are garbage humans. It says something when Prissy's marriage to David Waller is the best set up they machinated. Esther's husband? Loser. Smuggar? Convicted felon. Rebekah's first husband? Divorced. Nathan? Married a Rod. I think the other two brothers met their wives independently of their parents, so I won't add them here. 

One of the brothers (David?) married the Reber daughter. 
 

Nathan marrying a Rod was not a good idea lol.

[Salacious Kitty]

The Duggars will support Anna as long as she remains on the same page as them, believing in his innocence. The second she thinks differently, all support will cease. 

1 minute ago, iwantcookies said:

One of the brothers (David?) married the Reber daughter. 
 

Nathan marrying a Rod was not a good idea lol.

I didn't metnion David becasue he met Hannah Reber on his own. His parents didn't set it up. 

[3girlsforus]

2 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

I don’t think ma and Pa Keller would take Anna in. They will not put her in a trailer in the backyard. Anna is on her own. 

JB and Mi are getting old and will spend the $ on themselves. Feeding Anna plus 7 has to cost at least $1000 a month plus the supplies. She probably needs at least $1500 a month to survive. Who knows how long she will be supported!

I think I'm at least as disgusted with Ma and Pa Keller as I am with JB and Michelle, maybe even more.  Your daughter, who has 7 of your grandchildren, is married to a man who has molested his sisters (as children) and has been convicted of child pornography. How do you not show up with a U-haul, load her, the kids, and anything they own into it and get her and the kids the hell out of there??? There would be no question. I would be on her front porch packing her up the minute I heard. I would also be alone because I would have to leave my husband at home so he didn't go to jail for murder.  Even if you are vile enough to some how say this is because Anna wasn't a good enough wife, how do you leave your grandchildren around a child molester??? They are horrible, vile people. 

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, CalicoKitty said:

I think JB has been filtering assets through LLCs in Anna's name.  Wasn't money in Josh's name transfered to LLCs in Anna's name since this scandal broke?  I think it was posted here somewhere.  I guess that scheme didn't work so well.  I really wonder if this will lead to an investigation into JB's finances, as well as his attorney's.  When I first saw that Josh was arrested, I thought it was money laundering of some kind.

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Sorry for the piggy back posts, but I thought this needed a separate one. Bobye Holt speaks out. 

I would not be surprised if there was some digging into JB's finances now.   Sometimes it just takes one thing to bring the whole house of cards crashing down.   the cracks are already showing.   Bobbye Holt pointing out that Josh had the money and the support to go get help and didn't, and her pointing out how he is STILL pulling the wool over folks' eyes is the start of it.   One person from "inside" talking shows that their prominence is GONE.   From there, its a cascade until it all comes out.

For a really bonkers story of a whole helluva lot coming out from one simple case, google Alex Murdaugh South Carolina.   It started as a simple wrongful death lawsuit, so far its up to 2 murders, multiple counts of fraud, murder for HIRE, and a lot of lawyers losing their law licenses.   And we STILL don't know everything.   Back to the Duggars, hope Travis Story doesn't like his law license too much.   isn't his name on a few of the LLCs that are being used to shift money around?

[MaryAnneSpier]

I've suspected too that there may be more legal fun in the Duggars' future because the door is open. A lot of us thought that they were investigated either for either some sexual/ human trafficking crime or a financial crime when it came out that Homeland Security raided the car lot. I don't know; a lot of JB's money shenanigans seem pretty sketchy, but they may not be fully illegal, just shady as hell. 

[MaryAnneSpier]

27 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

I think I'm at least as disgusted with Ma and Pa Keller as I am with JB and Michelle, maybe even more.  Your daughter, who has 7 of your grandchildren, is married to a man who has molested his sisters (as children) and has been convicted of child pornography. How do you not show up with a U-haul, load her, the kids, and anything they own into it and get her and the kids the hell out of there??? There would be no question. I would be on her front porch packing her up the minute I heard. I would also be alone because I would have to leave my husband at home so he didn't go to jail for murder.  Even if you are vile enough to some how say this is because Anna wasn't a good enough wife, how do you leave your grandchildren around a child molester??? They are horrible, vile people. 

 I would think that in their culture, where the women are to be followers of their male headship, that if something were to happen to their provider, then HIS family are to step up and support her and the children. Her parents "gave" Anna to Josh, she took his family surname, so she now is under the Duggar protection. 

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

 I would think that in their culture, where the women are to be followers of their male headship, that if something were to happen to their provider, then HIS family are to step up and support her and the children. Her parents "gave" Anna to Josh, she took his family surname, so she now is under the Duggar protection. 

I agree, unless there's a divorce. THEN she goes back to her parents. That happened in another case where the fundie husband was busted raping his daughters. The wife, a mother of 8, divorced his sorry, jailed ass and moved back home. Changed Junior's name. All the children now have the mother's maiden name. And after all that, his parents still stand by him. Fundies are an odd bunch.

[Gemma Violet]

2 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I agree, unless there's a divorce. THEN she goes back to her parents. That happened in another case where the fundie husband was busted raping his daughters. The wife, a mother of 8, divorced his sorry, jailed ass and moved back home. Changed Junior's name. All the children now have the mother's maiden name. And after all that, his parents still stand by him. Fundies are an odd bunch.

I remember that.  The kids were singers and they had a TV show on TLC.  Was it the Willis family?  Or something like that?

I watched the video of JB walking to his car.  I had no idea he could move that fast.

[Salacious Kitty]

8 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

I remember that.  The kids were singers and they had a TV show on TLC.  Was it the Willis family?  Or something like that?

I watched the video of JB walking to his car.  I had no idea he could move that fast.

 Not the Willis family, although I can see similarieies. I don't think Ma Willis changed her name or the names of her children. The family I posted about is younger and not on TV. Their oldest (the junior) is about 16. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Salacious Kitty

[GeeGolly]

7 years ago I was sadly surprised as to the facts of Josh's childhood 'sins'. A few months after that I was somewhat surprised about Josh's adult sins. 1 year ago I was taken aback by the reason of Josh's arrest. Today I was happily surprised by the length of Josh's sentence.

The only surprise left I have room for is for Josh to have a coming to Jesus moment, admitting his 'sins', apologizing to everyone and working on himself in prison. Other than that, I am so very over being surprised by Josh Duggar.

[Temperance]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Ma and Pa Keller are garbage humans. It says something when Prissy's marriage to David Waller is the best set up they machinated. Esther's husband? Loser. Smuggar? Convicted felon. Rebekah's first husband? Divorced. Nathan? Married a Rod. I think the other two brothers met their wives independently of their parents, so I won't add them here. 

Maybe although David married the daughter of Josh's keepers (the Rebers) from the time of Josh's arrest until Josh's conviction!

Edited May 26, 2022 by Temperance

[Snow Fairy]

What would happen to Anna if something happens to JB? If he dies while Josh is in prison? If he will support her now when Josh is gone

[Tdoc72]

2 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

Wow, I am really impressed.  A Duggar associate has written a very truthful statement and with relevant Christian references.  It is worth so much more than anything Amy posted.

2 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

How is it that a WOMAN in this cult has the nerve, and autonomy, to post her actual opinion?  I am impressed.

I liked that she spoke out, but it’s not a sin to spell the word porn. 

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I didn't metnion David becasue he met Hannah Reber on his own. His parents didn't set it up. 

Did they set up Rebekah with the first husband, Josh also, I think?  He spoke out once and I got the impression he wasn’t impressed w/the Duggars. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Yes, Rebekah was "divorced" in my rundown of the Kellers. That was an IBLP match.

[ChiCricket]

I thought this was interesting (from Reddit) Why is the defense so worried that Josh won't be able to have access to adult porn (in 12.5 years?)

Isn't he a Godly man who doesn't need porn? 🤔 (full disclosure, I have watched some ADULT  porn before.. but I don't NEED to watch it.) JS

[MsJamieDornan]

5 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Scott Reish, a criminal lawyer who IMO does good stuff on YT

I enjoy Scott, very smart guy.  I enjoyed his reaction on a video he did recently about the letters that were submitted supporting Josh. He did everything he could not to roll his eyes.

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I enjoy Scott, very smart guy.  I enjoyed his reaction on a video he did recently about the letters that were submitted supporting Josh. He did everything he could not to roll his eyes.

I watched the video that Jeeves posted, but not the previous one. What exactly did he say was wrong with the letters besides not acknowledging his crimes? IANAL, so I can only speculate. 

[GeeGolly]

Young kids (and adults) see themselves of extensions of their parents. So if their parent is bad, they think they are somehow bad too. There's plenty of time when they're older to find out what a creep their dad is. Hopefully then they'll be able to separate who they are from who their dad is.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I watched the video that Jeeves posted, but not the previous one.

It starts at about 6 minutes.

[roamyn]

4 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

 Not the Willis family, although I can see similarieies. I don't think Ma Willis changed her name or the names of her children. The family I posted about is younger and not on TV. Their oldest (the junior) is about 16. 

Yeah, you’re correct.  I got them confused with a different Willis family.  They both had a large number for children.

[Sile]

8 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

My guess is that the first year ot two will be filled with appeals, and Anna being sure that God will send Joshua home.

Do you really think they would continue to drag this out?  At this point, anybody less delusional than Anna and Michelle would have to know that this is a done deal.  Certainly JB knows it by now (and probably has for some time) and, since he holds the purse strings, could he really justify throwing good money after bad and basically flushing it down the toilet?

I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hard line figure as to how far he's go with this to hope for a face saving miracle, but he's got to have reached that limit by now.  Hasn't he?

[GeeGolly]

Are either of these potential prisons near David and Priss? I could definitely see JB co-signing a move for Anna and the M & Ms if she was moving by them and able to visit Josh regularly. David is the FF's bestie and Anna's BIL, so he could be Anna's headship. And then of course the Felon would have steady 'support'.

[sagittarius sue]

2 hours ago, Sile said:

Do you really think they would continue to drag this out? 

Yes, the defense has made it clear that they will file an appeal within the 14 day limit.  Josh is innocent ya know.

[ginger90]

**Trigger warning **
 

I found this to be one of the better articles out there:

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/top-stories/a-closer-look-at-josh-duggars-sentencing/

[Tdoc72]

Anyone know if these type of appeals work out or not?  

[sagittarius sue]

8 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Bobye wasn't there for the entire trial. I don't know if she's aware of the heinous nature of the material Smuggar viewed. Fundies are always going to gravitate towards adult porn as an addiction and adultery as a mortal sin. That's to be expected. I think the CSAM angle has thrown them for a loop. 

I think that's a very important point.  As a witness she would have been directed not to attend the trial outside of the portion of her testimony.  I was a witness at a trial one tme when I was advised that.  I believe that's because a witness could always be recalled.

[ginger90]

16 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

Anyone know if these type of appeals work out or not?  

From what I’ve seen, less than 7%.

[merylinkid]

If his attorneys don't file an appeal its malpractice.   Not saying anything was wrong in the trial, but its what you do in criminal cases.   Now they don't always prevail, but you file them anyway because its important that the prosecution has to prove their case and the judge has to follow the law.   So if you got anything to use on appeal, you do it.   

Oh I imagine that Anna will be delusional right up to the day she dies.   She will believe he is coming home ANY DAY now.   

as for her parents, they KNEW what he did to his sisters and let her marry him anyway.   There is no way they are going to step up and help her now.  She was the sacrificial lamb to get them into higher levels in Fundy Land.

[MaryAnneSpier]

Did the Kellers know the full extent of what Josh did before he married Anna? Or were they led to believe he “sinned” by consensually kissing a girl his age like we outsiders thought?