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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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quarks

quarks

At this point I believe Josh has at least four attorneys, correct? The two in Arkansas, who have both been named in court documents and appear to be responsible for the defense's major screw-up so far (and possibly a minor screw up depending upon what happens with the car lot records); the Missouri one (Justin Gelfand) who specializes in these cases and seems quite competent so far; and now this appeals specialist attorney who joined the team in November.

The Missouri firm also urges high profile cases - which this certainly is - to work with PR people. So that would be an added expense.

(Sidenote: interestingly enough the PR person their webpage currently recommends does not appear to be on the conservative side, religiously or politically. And she appears to have left PR this month to go work at TikTok.  When I read that, I couldn't help but picture her sitting in an office somewhere, happily doing PR work, until these Missouri attorneys contacted her and said "HEY, DO WE HAVE A CLIENT FOR YOU," and she said, eagerly enough, "WHO? WHO?" and ten minutes later was putting out job feelers. Almost certainly wrong, but fun speculation for a bit.)

Anyway, yeah, I would have to agree that the legal bills are certainly well up into the six figures by now, and will only jump up starting Tuesday.

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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Zella

Zella

18 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

@Zella, can you provide a link to where this is on Reddit? 

Here it is! There's not much more info on what she said--other than it came up in a Q & A rather than on a Duggar-specific video. Most of the discussion I saw is more geared to how the family is paying for it rather than the amount itself. 

 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
8 hours ago, Zella said:

Here it is! There's not much more info on what she said--other than it came up in a Q & A rather than on a Duggar-specific video. Most of the discussion I saw is more geared to how the family is paying for it rather than the amount itself. 

 

And yet, compared to the $2.5 million he dropped on Tony Orlando's old Branson theater earlier this year, it's apparently just a modest spend. 

JB's semi-sleazy car and real-estate businesses have done well by him, clearly. ... And, of course, he does have a lot of llcs for keeping his cash well away from the tax people, he lives in a free house and his 19 kids used to buy used shoes. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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BradandJanet

BradandJanet

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1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

And yet, compared to the $2.5 million he dropped on Tony Orlando's old Branson theater earlier this year, it's apparently just a modest spend. 

JB's semi-sleazy car and real-estate businesses have done well by him, clearly. ... And, of course, he does have a lot of llcs for keeping his cash well away from the tax people, he lives in a free house and his 19 kids used to buy used shoes. 

No college costs or nutritious meals to worry about either. Also, his kids worked for years without pay on a TV show while JB received the checks. 

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Absolom

Absolom

11 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Based on the crazy forensic firm and the serious criminal lawyers from St. Louis, and the fact they are probably throwing peanuts at Travis Story, It has to be near 400K by now.  How much do these guys get paid to file motions?  And all the baby lawyers doing the grunt work?  Conservatively, it has to be at least 250K.

I agree.  My daughter's estimate was a minimum of $250k and up to $500k depending on the motions, length of trial, etc.  She made her estimate a couple of months ago.

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hathorlive

hathorlive

39 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I agree.  My daughter's estimate was a minimum of $250k and up to $500k depending on the motions, length of trial, etc.  She made her estimate a couple of months ago.

I don't care how much money JB allegedly has, spending 1 million dollars on something you can't flip, resale, or hide in a tax shelter is going to take a bite out of your lifestyle. I hope Jessa isn't packing her things up just yet, because if she gets a new house, it's like one that is not much bigger than what she has now.  Jill (and Der) are starting to look pretty smart.  Strike while there is still money that hasn't been squandered on JOsh.

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The discussion on legal fees really highlights how unjust the justice system is. Imagine if Josh was poor and innocent.

I told some students of mine during the OJ trial that justice isn't black or white but it sees green really well.  The difference between being able to hire experts to refute the Prosecution is vital in a lot of these cases and should be afforded to every person accused of a felony.

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

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(edited)
1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

I don't care how much money JB allegedly has, spending 1 million dollars on something you can't flip, resale, or hide in a tax shelter is going to take a bite out of your lifestyle. I hope Jessa isn't packing her things up just yet, because if she gets a new house, it's like one that is not much bigger than what she has now.  Jill (and Der) are starting to look pretty smart.  Strike while there is still money that hasn't been squandered on JOsh.

And the $500,00-$1,000,000 estimates thus far do not include the cost of the inevitable appeal should Josh be found guilty.  If JB is in for a penny, he's in for a pound which means, if Josh loses, he's got to be thinking they'll appeal the verdict.  I expect that is going to run up hundreds of thousands more in legal fees.

We know the Branson theater cost JB $2.5 mil.  Is it entirely in his name or one of his LLC's or did he make the purchase on behalf of IBLP or ATI and has other investors?  Was it a cash sale or did he finance it?  If JB was personally able to scare up $2.5 million in cash, he's got OJ type money to pay for Josh' defense.  BTW,  OJ's defense was rumored to have cost over $5 million back in 1994 which would be more than $9 million in today's dollars.

If nothing else, this trial is giving the public a lot of insight into just how much money the Duggars have.  I hope the IRS notices, too, and steps in and orders a thorough audit.

Edited by Rootbeer
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andromeda331

andromeda331

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

And yet, compared to the $2.5 million he dropped on Tony Orlando's old Branson theater earlier this year, it's apparently just a modest spend. 

JB's semi-sleazy car and real-estate businesses have done well by him, clearly. ... And, of course, he does have a lot of llcs for keeping his cash well away from the tax people, he lives in a free house and his 19 kids used to buy used shoes. 

They have. I keep wishing that the IRS will look into him one day. Come IRS.

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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

I don't care how much money JB allegedly has, spending 1 million dollars on something you can't flip, resale, or hide in a tax shelter is going to take a bite out of your lifestyle. I hope Jessa isn't packing her things up just yet, because if she gets a new house, it's like one that is not much bigger than what she has now.  Jill (and Der) are starting to look pretty smart.  Strike while there is still money that hasn't been squandered on JOsh.

I told some students of mine during the OJ trial that justice isn't black or white but it sees green really well.  The difference between being able to hire experts to refute the Prosecution is vital in a lot of these cases and should be afforded to every person accused of a felony.

That’s when I became crystal clear about the unfairness of our legal system - during the OJ trial. Most people don’t have the $$$ to hire 6 + top lawyers to defend them.

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andromeda331

andromeda331

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

That’s when I became crystal clear about the unfairness of our legal system - during the OJ trial. Most people don’t have the $$$ to hire 6 + top lawyers to defend them.

So did I. Having tons of money, and/or a celebrity, and juries unwilling to convict men for crimes against women. And it hasn't changed at all.

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hathorlive

hathorlive

34 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

We know the Branson theater cost JB $2.5 mil.  Is it entirely in his name or one of his LLC's or did he make the purchase on behalf of IBLP or ATI and has other investors?  Was it a cash sale or did he finance it?  If JB was personally able to scare up $2.5 million in cash, he's got OJ type money to pay for Josh' defense.  BTW,  OJ's defense was rumored to have cost over $5 million back in 1994.

If nothing else, this trial is giving the public a lot of insight into just how much money the Duggars have.  I hope the IRS notices, too, and steps in and orders a thorough audit.

I think we are all missing the importance of a Branson theater.  Just think of the morality plays that JB and Meech can produce.  "CP, is it really worse than transpeople in your bathroom???" and let's not forget "God detests beer but saves child molestors".  Heck, I think they may get a Netflix deal out of this.

Seriously, I hope the prosecutors in this case have tipped off the IRS folks about the shady LLC's that the Duggars are using to hide assets.  That would be just desserts for JB.

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Zella

Zella

(edited)

When I was at C of O, my friends and I used to talk about how Branson was tailored to tourists of a certain age, and that as those people aged out of traveling, the town didn't seem to be doing anything to draw in younger people. Like, I can be pretty old-school in some of my tastes, but the fuck if I went to see any of those boring-ass dinner shows the entire time I lived around there. 

In recent years, it does seem like there's been an uptick in religious-themed attractions there--I remember the Noah show at the Sight and Sound Theater getting a lot of buzz among fundie-light people I knew a couple of years ago. My guess is TPTB in Branson realized there's only so much mileage they were getting out of what they had, and they're trying to draw in Christian family tourists now instead of the retirees they seemed to be primarily targeting 10 years ago. 

Jim Bob's half-baked museum seems like it's jumping on the same basic trend. Maybe he saw Ken Ham's ark and got ideas. 

Edited by Zella
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emmawoodhouse

emmawoodhouse

I wish I could find the article I read so as to identify the nut job who is in charge. I'd never heard of him, but he got Boob to buy in on this concept. A history museum dedicated to Gothard's perspective would actually be pretty humorous, in a macabre sort of way. Just imagine the delusion. 😂

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sue450

sue450

36 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Guilty or innocent, I'd need a benzodiazepine prescription to make it through a trial as a defendant.

there is nothing on that website about jim bob but I found this  “The theatre that Jim Bob Duggar bought in Branson Missouri is connected to the IBLP. The Freedom Encounter is set to be an interactive museum that will teach revisionist US History. Jim Bob Duggar paid $2.5M to purchase the Tony Orlando theatre.Oct 29, 2021

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emmawoodhouse

emmawoodhouse

(edited)
2 hours ago, sue450 said:

there is nothing on that website about jim bob but I found this  “The theatre that Jim Bob Duggar bought in Branson Missouri is connected to the IBLP. The Freedom Encounter is set to be an interactive museum that will teach revisionist US History. Jim Bob Duggar paid $2.5M to purchase the Tony Orlando theatre.Oct 29, 2021

Just to clarify, he didn't buy the theater in October. Per my article, he bought it sometime in 2020. I think that's the date of the article (and when we found out about it).

Edited by emmawoodhouse
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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

(edited)
8 hours ago, sue450 said:

there is nothing on that website about jim bob but I found this  “The theatre that Jim Bob Duggar bought in Branson Missouri is connected to the IBLP. The Freedom Encounter is set to be an interactive museum that will teach revisionist US History. Jim Bob Duggar paid $2.5M to purchase the Tony Orlando theatre.Oct 29, 2021

Their hijacking of the word “freedom” is the tell.

Edited by Cinnabon
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sagittarius sue

sagittarius sue

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:
6 hours ago, sue450 said:

there is nothing on that website about jim bob but I found this  “The theatre that Jim Bob Duggar bought in Branson Missouri is connected to the IBLP. The Freedom Encounter is set to be an interactive museum that will teach revisionist US History. Jim Bob Duggar paid $2.5M to purchase the Tony Orlando theatre.Oct 29, 2021

Their highjacking of the word “freedom” is the tell.

They feel persecuted when others do not go along with their concept of freedom.

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Nysha

Nysha

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On 11/26/2021 at 9:06 PM, Zella said:

And per the summary I read on Reddit, she predicts they'll be out another 500K by the time it's over. I figured it was pricey, but that made me do a double take.

I'm sorry, but there isn't a person in this world I love enough to spend $1 million to defend them against a child pornography claim when there was so much evidence the person was guilty. 

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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

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2 hours ago, sagittarius sue said:

They feel persecuted when others do not go along with their concept of freedom.

Most can’t even define “freedom “ when asked. And I’ve asked many, many times on SM.

8 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I'm sorry, but there isn't a person in this world I love enough to spend $1 million to defend them against a child pornography claim when there was so much evidence the person was guilty. 

JB isn’t doing it out of “love.” He just wants to save his own image.

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iwantcookies

iwantcookies

10 minutes ago, Nysha said:

I'm sorry, but there isn't a person in this world I love enough to spend $1 million to defend them against a child pornography claim when there was so much evidence the person was guilty. 

JB should have given that $ toward supporting the M kids. Anna might wind up on the street after JB stops supporting her.

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emmawoodhouse

emmawoodhouse

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3 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

JB should have given that $ toward supporting the M kids. Anna might wind up on the street after JB stops supporting her.

Boob would be strung up by his nuts if he stopped supporting his grandchildren in need. Anna won't be going anywhere.

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Albanyguy

Albanyguy

4 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Boob would be strung up by his nuts if he stopped supporting his grandchildren in need. Anna won't be going anywhere.

And, honestly, how much is supporting Anna and her kids going to cost him? They're already living in that converted wharehouse on his property (and if he someday needs the wharehouse for Josie and her new husband, he can just move Anna and the kids into an empty dorm room in the big house). Their education will cost him nothing. He can feed them a cheap, starchy diet and dress them in thrift store clothes. He'll provide Anna with food, shelter and clothing, but not a penny for any extras. She can earn her keep by teaching the SOTDRT or, if Jana ever marries and leaves, she can take over Jana's duties. He won't end up losing out on the deal.

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quarks

quarks

2 hours ago, Westiepeach said:

I wonder if Anna has any idea whatsoever of what this week will bring…

She's probably prepared for parts of it - spending the day sitting in a courthouse, wearing a mask, the television cameras watching her going in and out of the courthouse, and having people in the audience with her, however socially distanced, since she's done that, or kinda that, at least twice now. She's gone through some hellish publicity stuff before this, so she probably has a sense of that. And she was there for both of the earlier hearings, so she's aware of at least some of the stuff that's coming up. And she's been dealing with having no identity, really, other than as the wife of Josh Duggar the creep for years now, so she has an idea about that. 

But the rest....I don't know. I don't think she's fully prepared to handle either result, really - or more specifically, the repercussions of either result. I don't know if she's realized that a not guilty verdict is not going to fix things for her, or, for that matter, convince most people that Josh isn't guilty. With a guilty verdict - sure, she previously went through that time when Josh was sorta in Jesus Jail, but I don't think she has a real idea of what it's going to be like to have seven kids, no job, and a husband in real jail.

And although, yes, she's been through something similar back in 2015 - the vitriol against her specifically seems much worse.

And of course she now has more kids. 

 

24 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

JB isn’t doing it out of “love.” He just wants to save his own image.

 

Yeah, this.

I don't get the sense that JB is the smartest, savviest person out there. But I do think he is smart enough to know the difference between being the father of someone just accused of crap, and being the father of someone convicted of downloading CSA.

And I am 100% convinced that JB's ambitions aren't even close to over.

 

3 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

And, honestly, how much is supporting Anna and her kids going to cost him? They're already living in that converted wharehouse on his property (and if he someday needs the wharehouse for Josie and her new husband, he can just move Anna and the kids into an empty dorm room in the big house). Their education will cost him nothing. He can feed them a cheap, starchy diet and dress them in thrift store clothes. He'll provide Anna with food, shelter and clothing, but not a penny for any extras. She can earn her keep by teaching the SOTDRT or, if Jana ever marries and leaves, she can take over Jana's duties. He won't end up losing out on the deal.

 

Also this. Even adding in utilities, yes, this will cost him something, but not that much. It's not like he's going to be sending the Ms to college or trade schools. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

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Even if Anna has allowed herself a second or two of imagining life if Josh is gone for the next five years, I don't think she has imagined what life will truly be like when Josh gets out. Nor do I think JB and M have. The five years Josh will be gone will be the easy part for all of them. Life when he returns is when the true struggle will begin.

Josh will forever be a convicted and registered sex offender. If Anna stays with him she'll likely lose most of any public support she has now. Memories are usually short, but I don't think followers, friends and family are going allow this to fade away. Going out in public and posting on SM will forever be met with glances and comments. Josh will be treated like the scum he is.

And if the Duggars aren't already somewhat divided over this now, it may happen then. Will Josh's siblings bring their kids around the TTH if Josh is there? Will JB & M choose Josh and force the siblings to avoid any future gatherings?

In reality, what they aren't realizing is a convicted sex offender is worse, in many circumstances, than a convicted murderer. Josh's conviction and prison time are just the beginning. There is no end to this one.

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floridamom

floridamom

Anna made the choices she made by staying with Josh even after two known offenses. She can't be very surprised by this situation. I think her fear of being without Josh outweighed everything. Inside she is still a little girl; just like the cult wants them to remain...dependent on the man and/or men in their lives so they can't escape. Render them powerless.

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Lisa418722

Lisa418722

I think Anna is prepared for the trial between already showing up for the pre-trial hearings as well as meeting with the attorneys since you know they have also prepared her in how to act while people are testifying (at least I hope the attorneys have prepared her as well as Josh).  I don't know if Anna is prepared for Josh to be found guilty and taken away at that point.  
The human part of me wants to feel sorry for Anna, but since she is still sticking by his side after his arrest for child porn, I just cannot find any sympathy for her.  I did have sympathy for her after everything came out about the molestations and Ashley Madison, but at this point, she made her choice. Yes, I realize she is in a cult and JB and Michelle would threaten to take her kids, but because of her followers she has a better chance of getting out and finding support (financial and emotional) than most people in a cult.  The kids have all my sympathy.  

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

26 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Even if Anna has allowed herself a second or two of imagining life if Josh is gone for the next five years, I don't think she has imagined what life will truly be like when Josh gets out. Nor do I think JB and M have. The five years Josh will be gone will be the easy part for all of them. Life when he returns is when the true struggle will begin.

Josh will forever be a convicted and registered sex offender. If Anna stays with him she'll likely lose most of any public support she has now. Memories are usually short, but I don't think followers, friends and family are going allow this to fade away. Going out in public and posting on SM will forever be met with glances and comments. Josh will be treated like the scum he is.

And if the Duggars aren't already somewhat divided over this now, it may happen then. Will Josh's siblings bring their kids around the TTH if Josh is there? Will JB & M choose Josh and force the siblings to avoid any future gatherings?

In reality, what they aren't realizing is a convicted sex offender is worse, in many circumstances, than a convicted murderer. Josh's conviction and prison time are just the beginning. There is no end to this one.

I agree. Anna’s life is going to change in an emotional sense but not a practical sense.

A good friend of mine, her father is a convicted sex offender. He served time for his abuse of non related children (he abused her as well, but was convicted for his assault on others). She says the 6years he was gone were the best years. Her parents are still married and there a various ways the siblings deal with it (only one sibling has kids). 
 

I think the majority of the Duggar siblings will treat Anna and the M kids as they always have, but the ones that have been waiting for a reason to cut Josh off now have a reason even their parents cannot manipulate them out of. I don’t think Anna’s life will change that much if Josh is convicted- outside of no baby in 2023. She would likely shut down her public social media. And her emotional state will be a mess. But she will spend her days attending to the TTH, supervising the Lost Girls along with the M kids and helping out Jana with the things she does. 

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Trillium

Trillium

I can’t wrap my head around why JB is shelling out a lot of money to defend him. I get it’s out of protecting his own image but still. If Josh was LGBTQ+, he’d have cut him out in a heartbeat. 
 

Or does he truly think their “Christian values” are being attacked  and this was all a set up? I could see that too. I don’t think JB is that naïve but he certainly has a persecution complex. 

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

12 minutes ago, Trillium said:

I can’t wrap my head around why JB is shelling out a lot of money to defend him. I get it’s out of protecting his own image but still. If Josh was LGBTQ+, he’d have cut him out in a heartbeat. 
 

Or does he truly think their “Christian values” are being attacked  and this was all a set up? I could see that too. I don’t think JB is that naïve but he certainly has a persecution complex. 

I think it’s about 1. JB’s image/ego, 2. Josh is his son. Many people have turned the other way when their child was an awful evil person, or actively defended them; yet would disown said child for being LGBTQ+, the wrong color or having a disability. 
 

Although JB has 18 other children, hanging is first born “out to dry” aka “face consequences for his actions” when said son has “held up” your values would be the real hypocritical thing in JB’s mind. If Josh had disavowed the fundy lifestyle, moved out, gotten a “regular person job” and didn’t participate in the dog and pony show, JB wouldn’t help him out of a parking ticket. But I think the “emotional” force behind this is Michelle. I think she has genuine maternal affection for Josh and may be the only one in denial about everything. 

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