Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Zella]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

I don't know, I still think they might have gotten the light version. It was three years later and Josh was more saying "I have a past" than confessing to the Kellers, like he was to Mrs Holt.

That's very true. It just really startled me that they would admit that much to anyone outside the family, apparently willingly, much less to someone whose daughter they hoped he'd marry. 

Of course, now that I'm typing it, it dawns on me that maybe the Holt reaction did make them provide less information to the Kellers. But the Kellers seem to have such poor judgment about their kids' spouses in general, that it's really hard for me to assume that they're somehow innocent victims in this. They've continued to support and socialize with the Duggars. 

[CalicoKitty]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

Honestly, I am not even sure they were lied to. I used to think that, but I was absolutely shocked how much information the Holts were given on what Josh had done, not only from JB and Michelle but also Josh himself. So, I don't rule out that the Kellers were told the exact same thing the Holts were and went into the whole thing with eyes wide open. 

Which, in my opinion, makes me ill.  Parents just shouldn't do that to their children.  How can Ma and Pa Keller sleep at night?  How is that in any way moral?  I thought they were "Bible experts" who tell us all how to believe.  I guess they missed the part about the mill stone around the neck for harming children.  Maybe that will be Jessa's next required verse for Spurge to recite.  They are such hypocrites.  

[lascuba]

Is my memory faulty or is Bobye (forever pronounce like Kanye in my head) testifying that Josh started molesting his sisters at 12 years old brand new information? IIRC, they've always claimed he started at 14. So is 14 just when JB and Michelle found out about it and he had been molesting his sisters for TWO YEARS before anyone knew? 

Another thing I find striking is that the Holts not only continued their relationship with the Duggars but had Josh stay in their home for a while to counsel him after they were told about the abuse. And they still continued the friendship after JB/M told them they weren't interested in hearing any more details of Josh abusing their daughters. But it was Holt losing his campaign because of the "sin in the camp" that severed the relationship. 

These people are wild. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

They knew and connived to keep it "in the family" of their church circles. 

Yes that's very true. I think Bobye Holt is telling the truth in her testimony, and I think that she was disturbed by what she was told. But neither she nor her husband moved to actually report it to authorities. That one article mentions Holt is the reason they took Josh to "the state police," but that's not really what happened. Josh talking off-the-record to a state trooper who ends up being a pervert himself is not really reporting it like it should have been done. 

5 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

And a huge tip of the hat to InTouch for blowing open the story when they did. If they hadn't? This case would be going through the courts with the Duggars and Kellers and Holts and other elders of the Duggars' church(es), sitting on the secrets. 

It's always struck me as quite ironic that, for all of their complains about the InTouch story, if the Duggars had actually reported this to DHS/the police and handled it properly when it happened, it probably never would have seen the light of day. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Yes, Bob-ye's testimony that Smuggar started the molestations at 12 is new information. It is noteworthy, given the ages of Jill and Jessa at the time. They correlate with the ages of girls in some of the material that Smuggar downloaded. He had a fetish, and it started very early.

Edited November 30, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[lascuba]

9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know, I still think they might have gotten the light version. It was three years later and Josh was more saying "I have a past" than confessing to the Kellers, like he was to Mrs Holt.

The fact that they called the Holts the very day Josh abused Joy makes me think they were very forthcoming with the Kellers. They might have stressed that it was all in the past and he'd learned and repented from his mistakes, but I think the Kellers got detailed descriptions of Josh's actions. Pa Keller was into prison ministry and the family was starstruck...they were the perfect marks to confess all to without risk of them backing away. 

[CalicoKitty]

1 minute ago, lascuba said:

The fact that they called the Holts the very day Josh abused Joy makes me think they were very forthcoming with the Kellers. They might have stressed that it was all in the past and he'd learned and repented from his mistakes, but I think the Kellers got detailed descriptions of Josh's actions. Pa Keller was into prison ministry and the family was starstruck...they were the perfect marks to confess all to without risk of them backing away. 

But are they so filled with pride now that they can't come out to help their daughter and her children?  They can't admit their mistake?  That is pretty sad.

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, lascuba said:

The fact that they called the Holts the very day Josh abused Joy makes me think they were very forthcoming with the Kellers. They might have stressed that it was all in the past and he'd learned and repented from his mistakes, but I think the Kellers got detailed descriptions of Josh's actions. Pa Keller was into prison ministry and the family was starstruck...they were the perfect marks to confess all to without risk of them backing away. 

Now *I* am believing that they told the Kellers. But what did the adult Kellers tell Anna? I think she got a very whitewashed version of events.

[merylinkid]

7 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Is my memory faulty or is Bobye (forever pronounce like Kanye in my head) testifying that Josh started molesting his sisters at 12 years old brand new information? IIRC, they've always claimed he started at 14. So is 14 just when JB and Michelle found out about it and he had been molesting his sisters for TWO YEARS before anyone knew? 

Another thing I find striking is that the Holts not only continued their relationship with the Duggars but had Josh stay in their home for a while to counsel him after they were told about the abuse. And they still continued the friendship after JB/M told them they weren't interested in hearing any more details of Josh abusing their daughters. But it was Holt losing his campaign because of the "sin in the camp" that severed the relationship. 

These people are wild. 

Wait THAT Holt?  He knew what Josh did and still put him on his campaign?  Raises the question what KIND of porn was he watching during the campaign?  We assumed it was adult porn.  What if it wasn't? 

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, lascuba said:

The fact that they called the Holts the very day Josh abused Joy makes me think they were very forthcoming with the Kellers. They might have stressed that it was all in the past and he'd learned and repented from his mistakes, but I think the Kellers got detailed descriptions of Josh's actions. Pa Keller was into prison ministry and the family was starstruck...they were the perfect marks to confess all to without risk of them backing away. 

I believe they called the Holts for help. Mrs Holt's testimony reads to me like JB & M were freaking out and were asking the Holts for advice and support. To me that's different than saying I erred in my ways during my youth.

[Lady Whistleup]

Personally I think they wanted to stick to the "Josh was 15" story because they didn't want it coming out that the sisters he molested were, in fact, truly children when it happened (Jill would have been 9 and she was the oldest). I think in their sick little world, having the girls be slightly older "justified" it because puberty, their bodies were changing, they tempted Josh, etc. But the girls being that young makes it harder for the Gothard world to make excuses.

[MargeGunderson]

38 minutes ago, Zella said:

It's always struck me as quite ironic that, for all of their complains about the InTouch story, if the Duggars had actually reported this to DHS/the police and handled it properly when it happened, it probably never would have seen the light of day. 

Delicious, delicious irony! With a giant helping of hubris. 

[jennblevins]

2 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Yes, that was Jill during the Megyn Kelly interview. She claimed that this activity happened in "2 out of 3 families." Her statistic came straight from Gothard. 

Well, sources* say 2 out of 3 families don’t attend church regularly, if ever. I therefore assume the Duggars will all quit attending church, since they clearly believe God is on board with anything that the majority of people do. 
 

* Okay, 62%, and that was the highest of the numbers Google gave me, but it’s still a majority. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by jennblevins

[satrunrose]

I have no idea where I'm getting this from, but I'm sure Anna's version was that she (and I think her parents) found out at a semi-public event where Josh was giving his "testimony" and that they were impressed by his repentance. Let that one sink in for a minute. 

[CalicoKitty]

18 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

I have no idea where I'm getting this from, but I'm sure Anna's version was that she (and I think her parents) found out at a semi-public event where Josh was giving his "testimony" and that they were impressed by his repentance. Let that one sink in for a minute. 

Well, he IS  a used car salesman.....

[jcbrown]

5 hours ago, Trillium said:

Fuck off JB. JOSH DIDN’T COME TO YOU! Jill told you you son of a bitch. Fuck right off with pretending you don’t remember your children were molested. If he was protecting the girls he would say out of respect to their privacy he didn’t want to talk about it. Instead his arrogant ass face lies and makes Josh look like a 4 year old who confessed to playing doctor. Fuck all of them. 

Boob totally threw four of his daughters under the bus. I have never had any respect for the slimeball but if this is not proof of the patriarchal bullshit the family lives by, I don't know what is. Fuck you, Boob and MEchelle. You failed as parents and as human beings. For Boob to pretend that he doesn't remember what he was told about the abuse is monstrous.

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I'm sending warm thoughts to Jill, Jessa, Joy, and Jinger tonight. Because while they're not perfect people it must hurt so much to continually be reminded that your father doesn't give a crap about you and will always protect his awful, sociopath son over you. This is awful. :( 

Totally. I am so sorry for what those young women had to endure. For the abuse to be normalized to this extent--even more than was known prior to today--is heartbreaking.

2 hours ago, Trillium said:

MOST TEENAGERS DO NOT MOLEST PEOPLE! Fuck off with your “hormones” excuse. I wish they could prosecute JB and Michelle. We knew they failed the girls, but wow. And to STILL be defending Josh is just     unforgivable. I hope they lose everything. 

Same here. Bankruptcy and shunning would be nice, at minimum. For the non-Josh kids to disavow their dreadful parents and leave the dog and pony show would be even better.

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

And a huge tip of the hat to InTouch for blowing open the story when they did. If they hadn't? This case would be going through the courts with the Duggars and Kellers and Holts and other elders of the Duggars' church(es), sitting on the secrets. 

Co-signed.

I am just astonished at the revelation in the article today that the molestations evidently went on for a period of years and still Boob and his broodmare thought the right thing to do was to try to sweep it--and their daughters--under the rug. Unconscionable.

[sue450]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Now *I* am believing that they told the Kellers. But what did the adult Kellers tell Anna? I think she got a very whitewashed version of events.

I read in duggarsnark there was a tHread by someone who knew   the duggars had been in a few brief scenes in the show had met anna several times hung with josh ..They said anna new nothing about sex  was not told was sex was un til her mother explained it the night before she got married.....so telling anna would have happened before the night before the wedding so how much understanding of the situation would she have had??

[hathorlive]

5 hours ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

When JimBob or Josh lies on the stand...

 

Michelle: "Can you spell perjury? P-e-r-j-u-r-y".

I wonder how the Duggars' would've reacted if a daughter was doing what Josh did to a son. Would they protect her? Probably not. Jill is a hero. No one should shun her. 

We can't really compare Josh being curious with one of the daughters fooling around and ending up like a used piece of chewing gum, right?  I mean, if a girl holds hands with a boy, she's impure and not worthy of a purity ring.  But let your son molest his sisters, and it's all fun and games. I hate this family and this cult.

[sue450]

1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

Delicious, delicious irony! With a giant helping of hubris. 

yes  josh was a minor if he had gone before a judge those records would have been sealed FOREVER ...Oh the IRONY

[hathorlive]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I’m not familiar with the material JD is charged with possessing, obtaining, etc. but are you saying that the children depicted were not real children?  Or that they were not abused?  Just confused.

I'm making side eyes toward the people who claim the children murdered at Sandy Hook were actors and no one died.  Meaning that the defense and their followers can allude to and make crazy assertions all day long, but these usually don't hold up in court.  I guess my sarcasm meter is set too low today.

[hathorlive]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

(reads the second People article, about Bobye Holt's testimony, and this comment)

.....

.....

....yeah, I don't really have a response for this. 

He's not a male chauvinist.  His religion/cult normalizes male domination, so it's alright behavior in JB's eyes.  He was put on earth at the top of the food chain, and women are there to be abuse and order about.  But he's not a male chauvinist.  It's the same argument that religious leaders used to justify slavery back in the day.  "Well, we are smarter and better, so that's why we own people who aren't".   It's hypocrisy at it's finest.

[jcbrown]

3 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

He's not a male chauvinist.  His religion/cult normalizes male domination, so it's alright behavior in JB's eyes.  He was put on earth at the top of the food chain, and women are there to be abuse and order about.  But he's not a male chauvinist.  It's the same argument that religious leaders used to justify slavery back in the day.  "Well, we are smarter and better, so that's why we own people who aren't".   It's hypocrisy at it's finest.

"I'm not sexist/racist/homophobic; I just recognize my rightful place in the world."--JimBoob

Edited November 30, 2021 by jcbrown

[hathorlive]

6 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

"I'm not sexist/racist/homophobic; I just recognize my rightful place in the world."--JimBoob

But let's not forget that we shouldn't be focused on child molesters, we should be focused on Transgender people using bathrooms because they are molesters, oh wait.   I guess we only care about child molesters if they are A) trans and B) not our son

**I'm still learning about the right way to use Transgender. I know from this board that Transgendered is wrong.  Maybe Trans is too.  I'm still learning.

[Nysha]

4 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-family-friend-emotional-testimony-court-hearing/

Josh is a sick guy! JB is a liar. 

From Bobye Holt's testimony it sounds less that Josh confessed voluntarily and more that whatever girl woke up and "snitched" started the confessions. 

4 hours ago, Zella said:

So, according to Bobye Holt's testimony in that latest People article, one of the girls said she woke up when Josh was touching her and hit him, and he called her a snitch. That was certainly never covered in that Megyn Kelly interview farce where they claimed the girls didn't even know they were being assaulted when asleep. And when Bobye tried to talk to his parents about it, they brushed her off. 

Bobye Holt didn't speak to the girls, she said Josh told her one of the girls woke up when he was touching her and hit him, then she snitched to their parents.

3 hours ago, quarks said:

I can't think of any approach that would have allowed him to squirm out untouched.

My sympathy is limited.

My sympathy is non-existent. I want JB to know every waking minute that people know he is scum for not protecting his daughters and lying to protect his pedophile son. I want this to decimate him financially, socially, and spiritually because I think his god is really his ego, power, and money and hopefully a lot of the people who thought he was godly will know the truth. 

3 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I wonder what the Kellers are really thinking right now?  I wonder if there is ANY possibility that they realize the gravity of the situation and might step in to help their daughter and grandchildren.  But maybe I am thinking too rationally and normally.

No, they're not going to step in b/c that would hint that they were wrong to pressure Anna to stay with Josh when the CSA against his sisters and the Ashley Madison adultery became public.

[Zella]

Just now, Nysha said:

Bobye Holt didn't speak to the girls, she said Josh told her one of the girls woke up when he was touching her and hit him, then she snitched to their parents.

Right, I didn't intend for that sentence to read as if the girls talked to her--I meant this was what Josh had told her. 

[Tabbygirl521]

8 hours ago, quarks said:

Sources are also reporting that the judge hasn't ruled on this yet - which means that Bobye Holt and JB have no idea if they have to come back later this week or early next week to testify again.

Minor point here, given the seriousness of the charges, but I really do have to ask just how many people have to be inconvenienced/aggravated by or suffer because of Josh Duggar? I admittedly don't know anything about Bobye Holt, but I can't imagine that she wanted to spend the first week of December wondering if she's going to have to testify at this trial.

No worries, Jim Bob told the judge that he (JB) ism it going to allow it. The judge told him, “objections will be made but not by you.” And JB told him he was being unprofessional. (Per People mag)

What a self-important tool. 

[emmawoodhouse]

9 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

No worries, Jim Bob told the judge that he (JB) ism it going to allow it. The judge told him, “objections will be made but not by you.” And JB told him he was being unprofessional. (Per People mag)

What a self-important tool. 

Actually, Boob was referring to the police report (with InTouch emblazoned on it) as being unprofessional. He was addressing the feds. He was aghast that they dare use it, sourced from a tabloid.

[quarks]

2 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

No worries, Jim Bob told the judge that he (JB) ism it going to allow it. The judge told him, “objections will be made but not by you.” And JB told him he was being unprofessional. (Per People mag)

What a self-important tool. 

To be entirely fair, JB didn't accuse the judge of being unprofessional. He accused the prosecution of being unprofessional when they brought him the copy of the police report that they apparently obtained from In Touch, and said that he wasn't going to allow it.

He's still a self-important tool though.

[Tabbygirl521]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know, I still think they might have gotten the light version. It was three years later and Josh was more saying "I have a past" than confessing to the Kellers, like he was to Mrs Holt.

I think this too. Seems likely when they saw that the truth apparently sent the Holts screaming into the night. 

[graefin]

From the DuggarsSnark SubReddit:

 

[3 is enough]

Wow.  I didn’t think I could possibly despise Jim Bob and Michelle more than I did, but I guess I have been proven wrong. They rank right up there with the world’s worst parents to be sure.

While I wish this trial and the airing of previously unknown details about their family result in their financial ruin, I have to remind myself that there are still 6 innocent kids from James to Josie not to mention Anna’s 7 kids who are dependent upon those slimeballs .  On top of everything else those younger kids are essentially uneducated.  What a horrible mess.

And Josh can rot in prison for the rest of his life as far as I am concerned.

[GeeGolly]

I actually hope the judge rules that the molestations are inadmissible. I think its unfair and likely very painful for the girls to have these details rehashed in public again. This is one of the many reasons victims don't tell - they lose control of their story. Another reason is survivors of sexual abuse are often looked at like folks who are forever broken. And here we are again, for the second time in 20 years hearing all the appalling details.

For sure we can blame the parents for mishandling the molestations, but that doesn't make it any easier for the girls. In fact it likely makes it harder.

I hope for their sakes, they avoided the day's news of the trial.

[Temperance]

I actually thought they acknowledged the abuse went on for years. I'm surprised this is new information.

I'm also surprised and yet not surprised that JB is an asshole. Boy, he thinks he is God's chosen man. I think he is lying to protect his own reputation. @Churchhoney I agree with you about JB and his daughters.

Bobye Holt also said on facebook something like we're fundies, but not fundies are like the Duggars. 🙄 Sure, Honey. This was on some public group recently.

I'd bet money Bobye's father was named Robert.

[Temperance]

41 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I actually hope the judge rules that the molestations are inadmissible. I think its unfair and likely very painful for the girls to have these details rehashed in public again. This is one of the many reasons victims don't tell - they lose control of their story. Another reason is survivors of sexual abuse are often looked at like folks who are forever broken. And here we are again, for the second time in 20 years hearing all the appalling details.

For sure we can blame the parents for mishandling the molestations, but that doesn't make it any easier for the girls. In fact it likely makes it harder.

I hope for their sakes, they avoided the day's news of the trial.

The prosecution included it to establish motive, after the defense said he had none. If they need it to establish their case, then I hope it's included. The victims never had control of the narrative so this isn't changing anything. Maybe if he's convicted, it will be small karmic justice.

In any case, I hope he's convicted and if this evidence is needed, then it better be included!

[libgirl2]

6 hours ago, hathorlive said:

But let's not forget that we shouldn't be focused on child molesters, we should be focused on Transgender people using bathrooms because they are molesters, oh wait.   I guess we only care about child molesters if they are A) trans and B) not our son

**I'm still learning about the right way to use Transgender. I know from this board that Transgendered is wrong.  Maybe Trans is too.  I'm still learning.

Yes, those are the people they worry about! FFS!

And I'm learning too. 

[Churchhoney]

6 hours ago, Nysha said:

 

Bobye Holt didn't speak to the girls, she said Josh told her one of the girls woke up when he was touching her and hit him, then she snitched to their parents.

 

Wonder how much these events might lurk silently and maybe even unconsciously behind the bustup with and the shunning of Jill. (not that we know this was Jill, but we do know that she was -- allegedly -- the snitch at a later date, where another sister was the victim....but still....)

Edited November 30, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Westiepeach]

9 hours ago, CandyCaneTree said:

I wish that I could be a spectator at the trial because I think that Blob is going to try to turn the trial into a 3 ring circus.

Not gonna happen. The Feds are not going to put up with Boob's shenanigans.

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

No worries, Jim Bob told the judge that he (JB) ism it going to allow it. The judge told him, “objections will be made but not by you.” And JB told him he was being unprofessional. (Per People mag)

What a self-important tool. 

This reminds me of what happened back in 2015 when a somewhat prominent communications consultant who'd specialized in working with conservative-Christian celebs when they'd had pr problems went to the TTH for a tryout with JB and M. That was part of the guy's process pre-hire, so he and the prospective client could find out whether they worked well together before signing a contract. 

The guy, who I think may have operated out of the Cincinnati area at the time?, spent several days in Arkansas with the Duggs. And then he left and gave at least one substantial interview with -- I think -- a Christian media outlet about why he wouldn't be working with them. In the interview, which got quoted in other outlets, he explained that he talked with them about the importance of humility and honesty and thoughtfulness in public communications when you're repairing your reputation after some problematic thing. But they made clear that they weren't interested in listening to a word he said. And they certainly weren't interested in following his advice, or anybody's if it involved tamping down their arrogance.

He was so horrified and found them such crazy outliers among the people he'd dealt with that when he left he believed that to protect his professional reputation he needed to publicly announce that he was not acting in any way as their consultant. 

JB and the court yesterday kinda sounds like that all over again. .... 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Temperance said:

The prosecution included it to establish motive, after the defense said he had none. If they need it to establish their case, then I hope it's included. The victims never had control of the narrative so this isn't changing anything. Maybe if he's convicted, it will be small karmic justice.

In any case, I hope he's convicted and if this evidence is needed, then it better be included!

I believe they're trying to include it to establish a pattern. Rehashing the story may not change anything but it causes further harm.

But anyway, I'm just saying I would prefer Josh is convicted without it.

[hathorlive]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I actually hope the judge rules that the molestations are inadmissible. I think its unfair and likely very painful for the girls to have these details rehashed in public again. This is one of the many reasons victims don't tell - they lose control of their story. Another reason is survivors of sexual abuse are often looked at like folks who are forever broken. And here we are again, for the second time in 20 years hearing all the appalling details.

For sure we can blame the parents for mishandling the molestations, but that doesn't make it any easier for the girls. In fact it likely makes it harder.

I hope for their sakes, they avoided the day's news of the trial.

It goes to motive.  Think about it this way, the defense has NO other suspect if the prosecution can establish that Josh is a molester, his target of sexual interest is girls between the ages of 4 and 11.  The crime involves images and videos of girls that age.  It totally negates that some random guy who was at the business would install a Linux partition, go on the dark web and find content that EXACTLY fits that age and sex demographic.  It's vital to the case.  And it presents the true nature of the suspect.  Josh is a predator and a pedophile.  The jury has the right to know that.  And may the gods of Google damn him with the jury.  

I'm not sure what's worse for the girls.  Their parents negating their abuse and supporting their abuser or people knowing that they were abused and that NO ONE supported them or acknowledged their pain.  Stuffing it down inside doesn't help the victims. 

I had a case in federal court years ago where a man was convicted of downloading CP in state court. He served time in state prison and was released.  He moved in with a woman who had two small children (parole violations) and proceeded to start downloading CP again. The defense argued that we don't know who downloaded the content. I said it was a good bet the person who already went to jail for it was a great suspect.  It's about a pattern of behavior and It all goes to motive.

Edited November 30, 2021 by hathorlive

[merylinkid]

6 hours ago, graefin said:

From the DuggarsSnark SubReddit:

 

Be careful who you piss off, you may need them to testify for you later.   Of course, the Holts are only against the Duggars because they blame Joshie for Jim Holt not being elected to office.   Because just like JB, nothing can be Jim Holt's fault.   He too is perfect and chosen by the Right Jesus to lead people.   If he fails at the endeavour it is because of "sin in the camp" not because he's an asshat.

I hope they can use the fact this is not NEW behavior from Josh without having to go into the details of him molesting his stories.   I also hope Jill is spending a lot of quality time with her therapist right now.   The other girls are still dependent on JB so they are stuck just being run over repeatedly by a bus without getting the help they need because that would require JB to admit he screwed up.   Which he won't.

42 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Not gonna happen. The Feds are not going to put up with Boob's shenanigans.

Yep.    Head Idiot forgets who is in charge in the courtroom.   It ain't him.   he pulls stuff like he did at the pre-trial, it will not go well.   A judge will be more than happy to let him sit in a cell until he is willing to act with proper decorum in the courtroom.

Jury selection today.   

[monkeypox]

From the People article:

Quote

And so in one evening conversation with Jim and Bobye, that is what Josh did, according to Bobye who testified that Josh shared more details about how he touched Jane Doe four in 2003. "When she was sitting on his lap he put his hand under her pantaloons and under her panties," said Bobye, who was crying and had to pause to gather herself, apologizing to the court.

Josh touched the girl outside and then inside her genitals, said Bobye, whose voice began to hitch.

This is the first time I have ever heard that Josh penetrated one of his sisters. Maybe I missed the revelation somewhere? I knew that JB, MEEchelle, Jill, and Jessa all lied in the Megyn Kelly interview that Josh only "inappropriately touched sleeping sisters over their clothes, without waking them up" because I read the redacted police report years ago. Megyn Kelly agreed to help the cover-up for her own reasons. But I don't remember the penetration detail being reported before.

What a horror that the Duggar girls were forced to forgive Josh and lie about his assaults in order to protect him and their parents' fortune and reputations.

[MargeGunderson]

8 hours ago, graefin said:

From the DuggarsSnark SubReddit:

 

Oh, the shade here is epic! Bobbye has some spunk!

Edited November 30, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[galaxygirl76]

I hope Boob fucks around with the Feds and finds out because if someone deserves that it's this self important asshat. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by galaxygirl76

[Madtown]

11 hours ago, CalicoKitty said:

I wonder what the Kellers are really thinking right now?  I wonder if there is ANY possibility that they realize the gravity of the situation and might step in to help their daughter and grandchildren.  But maybe I am thinking too rationally and normally.

Well that People article said Anna was in the front row. She is so delusional.  
How she can sit there and listen to these horrific stories that Bobye was telling, is beyond me. Then again, you  just know she thinks the woman is lying. 
 

[3 is enough]

OMG.  I did not read the People article- I just saw that Mrs Holt had testified that the molestations started when Josh was 12 not 14. Now that I have read the details I am beyond disgusted.  Josh is a sick monster who should be kept far, far away from all children.
IMO his parents are enablers who should be locked up too. 
“We do things differently than other families” indeed.

Edited November 30, 2021 by 3 is enough

[lascuba]

10 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I have no idea where I'm getting this from, but I'm sure Anna's version was that she (and I think her parents) found out at a semi-public event where Josh was giving his "testimony" and that they were impressed by his repentance. Let that one sink in for a minute. 

I remember Anna stating that JB, Michelle, and Josh had met with Anna and her parents to explain Josh's history. The assumption for a lot of people was that the Duggars were vague and dismissive about it, but I really think that they told them everything. They're seem incredibly forthcoming with people who have their same beliefs.

[skatelady]

12 hours ago, Zella said:

So, according to Bobye Holt's testimony in that latest People article, one of the girls said she woke up when Josh was touching her and hit him, and he called her a snitch. That was certainly never covered in that Megyn Kelly interview farce where they claimed the girls didn't even know they were being assaulted when asleep. And when Bobye tried to talk to his parents about it, they brushed her off. 

This is what I suspected all along.

1) It's incredibly unlikely that anyone would (repeatedly!) sleep through having their boob touched (*cough cough* forty years of marriage here)

2) Equally unlikely is that a young teen would voluntarily confess wrongdoing (ESPECIALLY a conceited golden child). I mean, come ON, we were all kids once. Even ADULTS struggle to confess. 

The MUCH more likely scenario is that he confessed AFTER HE GOT CAUGHT. And.... got caught MORE THAN ONCE, since there were few consequences the first time. 

In retrospect, it is just mind-boggling that those girls were forced to do that Megyn Kelly interview on national tv. To lie about something SO hurtful - to be FORCED to lie - all the while knowing that the whole point was to protect the perpetrator. 

These parents are absolutely disgusting. I hope they rot in whatever afterlife they believe in. As obnoxious as I find their daughters, I do genuinely pity them for this experience.  And I hope JB continues to try to control the trial narrative so that he is taken DOWN. 

I've used the word schadenfeude more this week than in my entire life to date!

[Tabbygirl521]

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Yes, those are the people they worry about! FFS!

And I'm learning too. 

Let’s also campaign against convenience stores selling beer. Extremely dangerous and sinful. 

[Dianaofthehunt]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I hope Boob fucks around with the Feds and finds out because if someone deserves that it's this self important asshat. 

JB’s mouthiness to the judge makes me wonder how seldom these people encounter and interact with normal, non-fundie professionals. They just don’t know how to turn off the arrogance.