Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Cinnabon]

Women don’t have many rights in their world, but Anna clearly (to me) makes her own SM posts. She has some access to the internet. 

[iwantcookies]

I think little Maddy is adorable... M plus Lily = Millie 

Maybe she will go by Millie or Lily lol

She will be Maddy or Mads ? 
 

I LOVE nicknames. 

[GeeGolly]

17 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Women don’t have many rights in their world, but Anna clearly (to me) makes her own SM posts. She has some access to the internet. 

She certainly does. They use Google to look things up, like recipes, DIY, YouTube, etc. I doubt anyone is spying on her phone use either. 

[Mindthinkr]

8 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

M plus Lily = Millie 

Good one. I think it’s far more suitable. 

[LilyD]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

So I guess what this obnoxiously long post is stating. I find it hard to believe that Anna wasn't reminded of the name Ashley Madison at least a couple times in the last few months, when she was sharing Madyson's name.

Unless of course…the entire family had been prewarned and told to shut up by JimBob. I believe him fully capable of that.

Also, no mother in her right mind would willingly make an absolute idiot of her own child just to get revenge. There are better ways to get back to your ex than naming it after a naughty website. Besides, this name would constantly rub salt in Anna’s own wounds as well. Who would want that? Nobody, unless she really didn’t know there was a connection between cheating and the name madison.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, LilyD said:

Unless of course…the entire family had been prewarned and told to shut up by JimBob. I believe him fully capable of that.

Also, no mother in her right mind would willingly make an absolute idiot of her own child just to get revenge. There are better ways to get back to your ex than naming it after a naughty website. Besides, this name would constantly rub salt in Anna’s own wounds as well. Who would want that? Nobody, unless she really didn’t know there was a connection between cheating and the name madison.

JB, IMO, doesn't run the dog & pony show, so I doubt he's said anything about anything. I doubt much of Josh's stuff is talked about within earshot of anyone and everyone else is following his lead, but...

There's a kid involved here. This kid is going to have that name for the rest of her life. IMO, there would be plenty of ways to let Anna know the name is a poor choice. Tell her directly, tell her mom, leave her a note, mail her a letter, etc.

[Tabbygirl521]

19 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I could believe that a lot of things Anna does come from motivations and feelings she's totally and repeatedly squashed throughout her life exploding into the real world utterly without her being aware of what's happening and without any conscious intention at all  on her part. 

I don't usually feel really Freudian. But in Anna's case, seems to me there's been absolutely massive cognitive dissonance in her life for pretty much her whole life, and intense pressure both external and internal for her to completely ignore the dissonance and keep saying the stuff that's apparently making her a "role model" for fundie/Gothard girls who are also being impelled along the same paths. Just endless cycles of confusion and/or anger and then unconscious but strong-as-hell repression, none of which her internal armor ever lets her be even vaguely conscious of. 

She does keep saying the stuff she's supposed to say. She does keep getting the kudos as the role model. And in all this time, i don't remember anybody seeing or hearing anything from her that would really show that she's often a boiling cauldron of bafflement and disillusion underneath. 

So I think she can very easily have named this kid "Madyson" for all the reasons we think a woman in her position might do that --- without ever allowing the fact that the name is crazy inappropriate and horribly meaningful into her consciousness for a millisecond. Just an automatic revolt of her subconscious completely outside of her awareness. 

And I may be crazy, but I can't actually see her using the name with any conscious awareness of its significance at all. Sadly, I think she may be so fucked up by her long forced and ultimately weirdly voluntary participation in the charades that are her patriarchal, fact-denying religion/cult and marriage to Josh Duggar that she can and does utterly deny a whole bunch of facts that most people would find almost impossible to deny. 

 

Yup. All this. And I wouldn’t doubt a bit that she believes that whole Ashley Madison was a big lie perpetuated by Satan via evil liberals or something. 

[Cinnabon]

7 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Yup. All this. And I wouldn’t doubt a bit that she believes that whole Ashley Madison was a big lie perpetuated by Satan via evil liberals or something. 

Given the state of this country, that wouldn’t surprise me.

[MargeGunderson]

42 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

I think little Maddy is adorable... M plus Lily = Millie 

Maybe she will go by Millie or Lily lol

She will be Maddy or Mads ? 
 

I LOVE nicknames. 

It would have to be Mylly.

[Liddy52]

I think possibly, in Anna's mind, Madyson is a totally different name than Madison. I know it isn't but I can see her justifying using the name that way. 

[FizzyPuff]

19 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I'm sure Joshley picked out the name. We all know how he loves trolling his own wife (his comments about how she's good at swallowing to swallow et al).

If Josh named her then I hope he gets kicked in the balls in jail. 

[lascuba]

 

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Women don’t have many rights in their world, but Anna clearly (to me) makes her own SM posts. She has some access to the internet. 

Yeah, I don't think Anna is under any kind of media blackout other than a self-imposed one. She can probably access anything she wants but chooses not to.

[SusanM]

I honestly don't think the name was chosen for any other reason than it's trendy and it's an M name.  Anna just, frankly, isn't very bright.  

[SMama]

I’m sure Anna purchases groceries and is aware of tabloids at the checkout lane. No excuse to not be aware.

[galaxygirl76]

2 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

I think little Maddy is adorable... M plus Lily = Millie 

Maybe she will go by Millie or Lily lol

She will be Maddy or Mads ? 
 

I LOVE nicknames. 

Considering these people came up with Dithy, I think they will find the worst nickname possible for her. 

I'm surprised by the placement of the Y, I see plenty of Madisyn's in my line of work. 

[Zella]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

I’m sure Anna purchases groceries and is aware of tabloids at the checkout lane. No excuse to not be aware.

I'm also pretty sure she handles her own social media and would have seen all the comments she's received over the years about Josh and his proclivities. Also wasn't she the one the Covenant Eyes notifications go to? I think Anna is well aware of the scandals. She just buries her head in the sand like an ostrich.

I honestly have a hard time sympathizing with her since she's repeatedly made it clear in various ways that she thinks the biggest tragedy about Josh being "cancelled" is them being kicked off the show. She kept doubling down and trying to convince the world that Josh was a good man. How's that worked out for you, Anna?

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zella

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'm also pretty sure she handles her own social media and would have seen all the comments she's received over the years about Josh and his proclivities. Also wasn't she the one the Covenant Eyes notifications goes to? I think Anna is well aware of the scandals. She just buries her head in the sand like an ostrich.

I honestly have a hard time sympathizing with her since she's repeatedly made it clear in various ways that she thinks the biggest tragedy about Josh being "cancelled" is them being kicked off the show. She kept doubling down and trying to convince the world that Josh was a good man. How's that worked out for you, Anna?

Anna is the type of woman who feels marriage and family are the be all end all.  Being single is worse than being married to Josh.  I don't fully understand this type of woman, but Anna is not the first one I am aware of and she won't be the last.  She sits smugly thinking "at least I have a husband" where I take one look at her marriage with Josh and think "I would rather be single."  

[Zella]

11 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Anna is the type of woman who feels marriage and family are the be all end all.  Being single is worse than being married to Josh.  I don't fully understand this type of woman, but Anna is not the first one I am aware of and she won't be the last.  She sits smugly thinking "at least I have a husband" where I take one look at her marriage with Josh and think "I would rather be single."  

Haha yes. My college roommate wasn't that type of person, but when she started dating her useless husband, she still tried to ask me in a round-about way if it was hard for me to see her with someone since I was single, and I nearly burst out laughing in her face because it truly baffled me that anyone would ever put up with his shit and feel like they'd won a prize. 

When it comes to Anna, my thoughts are basically "Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks. Lay thine eyes upon it and thou shalt see that it is barren." She's time and again chosen him and gloated about him, even after the initial scandals. She was proudly showing him off just days before he was arrested. And it's coming back to bite her hard. I feel terrible for their poor innocent kids and I recognize how her culture has shaped her views, but I just don't have any sympathy left for her. [It would read differently to me if she'd just have shut up about him and stopped trying to make fetch happen.]

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zella

[farmgal4]

11 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

Awww..I think she's adorable. Maybe she'll grow into her nose?

The name though...wtaf! 😡

Anna and/or Smuggar are just horrible to pick that name.

She is adorable.  Hopefully she’ll be Anna’s last baby.

[lascuba]

 

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

Haha yes. My college roommate wasn't that type of person, but when she started dating her useless husband, she still tried to ask me in a round-about way if it was hard for me to see her with someone since I was single, and I nearly burst out laughing in her face because it truly baffled me that anyone would ever put up with his shit and feel like they'd won a prize. 

When it comes to Anna, my thoughts are basically "Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks. Lay thine eyes upon it and thou shalt see that it is barren." She's time and again chosen him and gloated about him, even after the initial scandals. She was proudly showing him off just days before he was arrested. And it's coming back to bite her hard. I feel terrible for their poor innocent kids and I recognize how her culture has shaped her views, but I just don't have any sympathy left for her. [It would read differently to me if she'd just have shut up about him and stopped trying to make fetch happen.]

I once had someone ask me if I planned to be a spinster. This woman was in the middle of a very messy divorce after her philandering-since-day-one husband crossed the line of sleeping with her best friend. I just stared at her.

Anna thrived on not only having  a husband, but1) having a husband who came from a famous family and 2)being on tv as an example of a good Christian. Sweetest schadenfreude ever.

[Quilt Fairy]

The name Miranda is looking pretty good to me right now.  

Also, speaking of random letters attached to names, I was watching lawyer Emily on Youtube last night, and one of her posters was a Hollye. 

[SusanM]

16 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Anna thrived on not only having  a husband, but1) having a husband who came from a famous family and 2)being on tv as an example of a good Christian. Sweetest schadenfreude ever.

When she blathered on about choosing the letter for the names of their kids I figured she saw herself and Josh being "19 kids and counting - round 2".  I never got that impression from the other kids.  Some of them wanted to keep the gravy train going, no question, but I never felt that any of the others had any intention of having a baby a year and maybe even being '20 kids and counting'.  To be fair to Josh I don't think he wanted that either, but I sure feel that Anna did.  And probably still does.

Edited November 17, 2021 by SusannahM

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

When she blathered on about choosing the letter for the names of their kids I figured she saw herself and Josh being "19 kids and counting - round 2".

One of the things I find most fascinating about her M theme is the way it has completely avoided Michelle's name, which seems like a readymade option. I don't blame Anna for not using it at all, but it still surprises me. I wonder if it's something Michelle is salty about or if she doesn't care. It's hard to get a read on Michelle (or Anna, for that matter). 

[lascuba]

3 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

When she blathered on about choosing the letter for the names of their kids I figured she saw herself and Josh being "19 kids and counting - round 2".  I never got that impression from the other kids.  Some of them wanted to keep the gravy train going, no question, but I never felt that any of the others had any intention of having a baby a year and maybe even being '20 kids and counting'.  To be fair to Josh I don't think he wanted that either, but I sure feel that Anna did.  And probably still does.

Oh, Anna absolutely went into this marriage wanting to be Michelle 2.0. She was a fangirl when she married in, and it's pretty obvious that Josh's sisters kept her at arms length for a while at least partly because of that. Jinger's disgusted expression when Anna chirped, "We haven't picked our letter yet" is seared in my brain.

[Dianaofthehunt]

22 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Anna thrived on not only having  a husband, but1) having a husband who came from a famous family

There’s fame and then there’s fame, but I really dispute the ‘“fame” of any of the Duggars. Having had a show on The Freak Channel doesn’t constitute fame, and the name Anna Duggar would not resonate with the average person. Their “fame” is in their heads; strictly NW Arkansas style.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

Their “fame” is in their heads; strictly NW Arkansas style.

They're not really big celebrities in NWA either, to be honest. 

[Cinnabon]

11 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

When she blathered on about choosing the letter for the names of their kids I figured she saw herself and Josh being "19 kids and counting - round 2".  I never got that impression from the other kids.  Some of them wanted to keep the gravy train going, no question, but I never felt that any of the others had any intention of having a baby a year and maybe even being '20 kids and counting'.  To be fair to Josh I don't think he wanted that either, but I sure feel that Anna did.  And probably still does.

She should try it as a single mom with little income and little family support. You know, like all those women she judges and shames on SM.

[sagittarius sue]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Considering these people came up with Dithy, I think they will find the worst nickname possible for her. 

How about Madly?  Madly Duggar has a certain ring to it.

[Natalie68]

2 hours ago, FizzyPuff said:

If Josh named her then I hope he gets kicked in the balls in jail. 

I have a feeling that will happen on the regular for a myriad of reasons.  

[libgirl2]

44 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

She is adorable.  Hopefully she’ll be Anna’s last baby.

I doubt it. She will find a way. 

[GeeGolly]

Anna came into the family as a sheltered 20 year old and was happy to join the Duggar circus. I think she's been forced to grow up in some very 'worldly' ways since the early days though. But when she was bragging about Josh being a good dad, husband and provider, I really think she meant it, unlike the way Jessa lies to create an image (and protect her ego). Anna sees Josh as being a good dad, husband and provider.

To me that's different. Anna won't, or more likely can't wake up and see what's really going on, because if she did, her entire world would fall apart. This is a way many folks handle trauma, they dissociate when shit is happening and then they're able to function 'normally' when its not. Or at the very least Anna is subconsciously minimizing and denying many of the facts.

But this still doesn't, at least to me, explain why this new daughter is named Madyson.

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Anna is the type of woman who feels marriage and family are the be all end all.  Being single is worse than being married to Josh.  I don't fully understand this type of woman, but Anna is not the first one I am aware of and she won't be the last.  She sits smugly thinking "at least I have a husband" where I take one look at her marriage with Josh and think "I would rather be single."  

I would rather be single FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

[Cinnabon]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Anna came into the family as a sheltered 20 year old and was happy to join the Duggar circus. I think she's been forced to grow up in some very 'worldly' ways since the early days though. But when she was bragging about Josh being a good dad, husband and provider, I really think she meant it, unlike the way Jessa lies to create an image (and protect her ego). Anna sees Josh as being a good dad, husband and provider.

To me that's different. Anna won't, or more likely can't wake up and see what's really going on, because if she did, her entire world would fall apart. This is a way many folks handle trauma, they dissociate when shit is happening and then they're able to function 'normally' when its not. Or at the very least Anna is subconsciously minimizing and denying many of the facts.

But this still doesn't, at least to me, explain why this new daughter is named Madyson.

Maybe some therapist could try hypnosis with Anna, lol. She can’t possibly think Josh is the one who has been providing for her and the kids, could she?

[SMama]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Anna is the type of woman who feels marriage and family are the be all end all.  Being single is worse than being married to Josh.  I don't fully understand this type of woman, but Anna is not the first one I am aware of and she won't be the last.  She sits smugly thinking "at least I have a husband" where I take one look at her marriage with Josh and think "I would rather be single."  

IIRC Anna did a TH gloating that although she is younger than Priscilla she was married first. Then made an asinine comment about having a husband to take out the trash. Oh the tragedy of taking out the trash. My husband usually does the downstairs trash and I do upstairs and recycling. I have yet to sustain any injuries during that chore. Anna is a smug rube who deserves everything bad that comes her way. Too bad 7 innocent kids have to suffer. That’s on Anna too.

[Churchhoney]

55 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 

To me that's different. Anna won't, or more likely can't wake up and see what's really going on, because if she did, her entire world would fall apart. This is a way many folks handle trauma, they dissociate when shit is happening and then they're able to function 'normally' when its not. Or at the very least Anna is subconsciously minimizing and denying many of the facts.

But this still doesn't, at least to me, explain why this new daughter is named Madyson.

Well, seems to me that whatever the reason is, it has to be a very twisted reason because of the impact it might have on an innocent child's life......So somebody who's denying, dissociating, living in danger of a total collapse of their world if any of those "coping "mechanisms" fail  -- .... seems to me in that state she might be capable of pretty twisted actions......and maybe this name is just one of them....

Like, what if one of the facts she's completely denying and dissociating from now is a years-long buildup of absolute stone cold fury? Toward Josh....and also toward God and her parents and in-laws, the five of whom essentially gave her Josh, back when all of them should have been more cautious about what they were advising a young girl to do.

Why couldn't that fury come out in the form of  unconsciously naming this baby after the previous Josh debacle? That was a time when she probably thought they'd hit rock bottom, and then all her beliefs and the four parents, and Josh, and probably even the God in her head who answers her prayers likely assured her that you can rise from rock bottom with Jesus......But now look where they are.....

Honestly, if you were writing a Yellow Wallpaperish novel about somebody losing it in a situation like this, you'd definitely consider having her unconsciously name her baby after what she formerly thought was the worst thing that could ever happen to her (for some twisted reason -- even like imagining it's an homage to forgiveness or something) ......Because the baby wouldn't exactly be real to her -- her confused and trapped and raging furious mind would be the only thing that was real...She'd be wholly driven by things other than the baby, if she were in this state. So a concern for the baby that would ordinarily stop her from doing it wouldn't be a factor because that's obscured by the huge mess that her mind and her life have become.

Seems to me if Anna's really kind of losing it here in real life -- and I don't know that anybody would be too surprised if she were, would they? -- could she not do something that out-of-the-blue crazy? 

Giving the poor child that name is pretty clearly delusional, one way or another, seems to me.....

To me, their delusional lifestyle and set of beliefs might kind of set people up to lose it when things get very real...........The current situation might actually be harder for Anna and other Duggars to deal with than for people with closer ties to reality, I would think. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Churchhoney

[hathorlive]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:15 AM, GeeGolly said:

Could of all the defense's focus on outside access to the computer be because Josh is insisting he his innocent? And Josh is pushing this narrative? How does that relationship work? If a defendant sticks with one story, do the lawyers need to offer a defense including that angle?

Like even the last guy, Caleb. I'm guessing he prints the information stickers that are in car windows. If he really uses Josh's computer to do this, they can look at the computer to see if he used it the same day as the download.

Or are they trying to say that somehow one of these guys had password access and did the download remotely? And if it was a remote download, wouldn't the computer show that?

The problem with remote access is that computers log all these connections.  So unless Josh deleted all the log files or had the sense to turn off logging events, it's easy to find RDS (remote desktop service) running.   Other programs still leave little electronic hoofprints all over the OS.  So you can throw that out there, but if you don't have any artifacts to support it, it's an affirmative defense that can't be supported.

[Lisa418722]

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

I doubt it. She will find a way. 

I feel like she is ignoring Gothard's wait 80 days rule and even waiting for the general recommendation of six weeks.   I'm sure she is already trying for M8.  Since Josh doesn't have anything else to do, he's probably willing. OK now I need brain bleach. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Lisa418722

[hathorlive]

On 11/11/2021 at 12:38 PM, peppergal said:

Linux keeps very very good records of what user ID logged in, when, and from where.  As in every time I log into my Linux virtual machine it tells me as part of the log in message of the day the last time someone successfully logged in and what remote IP address they used or if it was the local console, as well as how many failed log in attempts there were since then and what IP address(es) they came from. 

 

This is assuming that the user id isn't "user" or "car lot" or "go hogs". Most of the computers I get have the generic password that Compaq  or HP sets up.  So, that doesn't necessarily cleared up who was doing what when.  I can't see Josh setting up different accounts since he was too lazy to use a VPN.  This is why I want a trial. I want all the details on the computers, lol.

[Ijustwantsomechips]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

When it comes to Anna, my thoughts are basically "Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks. Lay thine eyes upon it and thou shalt see that it is barren."

You win the internet for 2021 and 2022! I’m just waiting for my cousin to come with one of her bullshit stories about her whiny kid or annoying boyfriend so I can hit her with this one!

Edited November 17, 2021 by Ijustwantsomechips

[Fosca]

When it comes to nicknames, if we have Dithy, then this one will be "Sonny", pronounced "Sinny".  How appropriate.

[Turquoise]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

"Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks. Lay thine eyes upon it and thou shalt see that it is barren." 

I feel like I need a framed sampler of this displayed in my house...

[Zella]

16 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

You win the internet for 2021 and 2022! I’m just waiting for my cousin to come with one of her bullshit stories about her whiny kid or annoying boyfriend so I can hit her with this one!

I actually stole it from the internet, but it's one of my favorite things to say. LOL It is applicable to so many situations. 

4 minutes ago, Turquoise said:

I feel like I need a framed sampler of this displayed in my house...

I bet it's out there somewhere on one! It's on coffee mugs. :D 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zella

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, Turquoise said:

I feel like I need a framed sampler of this displayed in my house...

Etsy has you covered

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=cross stitch pattern field of fucks

[Natalie68]

13 minutes ago, Turquoise said:

I feel like I need a framed sampler of this displayed in my house...

I am thinking about asking my crafty cousin to stich it on a pillow case!  I would give proper attribution :).

[Westiepeach]

18 minutes ago, Turquoise said:

I feel like I need a framed sampler of this displayed in my house...

When one is a Graphic Designer...

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Maybe some therapist could try hypnosis with Anna, lol. She can’t possibly think Josh is the one who has been providing for her and the kids, could she?

She wouldn't need hypnosis, she would just need time. These things usually show up as anxiety and/or depression first and then start to unfold when the person is ready.

And yes, I think Anna believed her husband, who presumably went to work everyday, was providing for her family.

[SusanM]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And yes, I think Anna believed her husband, who presumably went to work everyday, was providing for her family.

I also think she expected there to be 'family' money.  Whether it's actually true or not I don't know - but it would hardly be surprising that someone like Anna would assume not only was she marrying into Fundy Royalty but she was also marrying into a monied family.  Arguably that wouldn't translate into Josh being a good provider but to be fair if you marry into a (in your eyes) Vanderbiltish family you think you're certainly going to be well provided for.

 

[Zella]

28 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And yes, I think Anna believed her husband, who presumably went to work everyday, was providing for her family.

I definitely think she thought that when he was going to work every day, but to the best of my knowledge, he hasn't worked since the raid, so for about a year and a half before his arrest. I would think she would know that he was not the one supporting the family at that point, though with their tangled snarl of LLCs, there is no telling exactly how they were getting their money. But I don't think it was from a regular paycheck in Josh's name. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zella

[3 is enough]

I must admit I was so distracted by the unique spelling that the significance of the name was lost on me.

Part of me wonders if in private Anna is not keeping sweet, is actually furious and scared, and picked the name to remind Josh of his past sins.  

[drafan]

20 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Part of me wonders if in private Anna is not keeping sweet, is actually furious and scared, and picked the name to remind Josh of his past sins.  

Nope. She is an arrogant moron. She's too busy trying to figure out how she can get pregnant with M #8.

 

Edited to add...

I don't mean pregnant before Joshley goes away...I mean having M#8 in 2023, right on schedule, just like nothing ever happened. I'm sure she'll figure out a way....

Edited November 18, 2021 by drafan