Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Churchhoney]

41 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Here's the clip

It's unfortunate that this provides no exculpatory evidence of the previous pictures just being those inevitable few bad screenshots in which people have highly inappropriate looks on their faces. These two -- and their visible lawyer -- have the same inappropriate looks on their faces in every frame. 

Kinda staggering, really. 

[JoanArc]

8 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

It's unfortunate that this provides no exculpatory evidence of the previous pictures just being those inevitable few bad screenshots in which people have highly inappropriate looks on their faces. These two -- and their visible lawyer -- have the same inappropriate looks on their faces in every frame. 

Kinda staggering, really. 

Yeah pretty common for EVERYONE, guilty or innocent, to look that way coming out of the trial. Reddit ID'd the dress as coming from an old pregnancy photo shoot.

[Churchhoney]

20 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I  bet she’s incredibly uncomfortable sleeping with him in a strange bed while so pregnant. And I don’t care.

Probably worsened by the faint voice of Mrs. Reber reverberating through the building frame with the prayer I'd guess she's now saying quietly day and night  -- "Please don't let there be any postponements. Please don't let there be any postponements." 

[GeeGolly]

I know Josh is scum and Anna a bit confused, but to be fair, there's nothing wrong with getting a babysitter when needed.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I know Josh is scum and Anna a bit confused, but to be fair, there's nothing wrong with getting a babysitter when needed.

No, but I get a feeling she has all but abandoned those kids to be with him. I hope not, they need their mother but as we know husband comes before kids. 

[iwantcookies]

Josh looks greasy and dirty. Does he even shower? I can smell the BO.
 

He does look like he lost weight. 

[anna0852]

Anna looks awful! She's got to be due to whelp soon, right? She's very 'big pregnant'. 

And that smug grin doesn't help. 

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Josh looks greasy and dirty. Does he even shower? I can smell the BO

I don’t know how it works, but even when they’re clean they’re dirty. He’s aged a bit, too. Lost more hair.

[ozziemom]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I know Josh is scum and Anna a bit confused, but to be fair, there's nothing wrong with getting a babysitter when needed.

Yeah but farming out Michael who is what, 10? to be with James, who is 18? and apparently they are at a construction site? I think Anna is overwhelmed with “keeping sweet” while ready to burst with M#7. Not hard to understand but I think her kids should be more of a priority than they seem to be. And it says a lot about the grandparents, they are all MIA.

[Scarlett45]

There is no need to discuss or allude to the graphic details of Josh’s alleged crimes. We know he has been charged with possession of Child Sex Abuse Material- moderators will not review posts for graphic content. 
 

The thread has remained mostly track with this issue but a reminder was in order. 

[Temperance]

15 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

When is she due? November?

It's not clear. All she said in the announcement is "Fall 2021'. So it could be any time from now until the beginning of winter. I'm guessing the baby is due/will be born in October, but it could be November, etc.

[mynextmistake]

13 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

They’re probably hoping that she can hang on until the trial, so that she can go into labor in the court room and give birth in the jury box.

That would be amazing. An instant thirteenth vote for guilty!

The body language in that clip is really interesting. Josh is not only not holding Anna’s hand (which would be he natural thing to do if you are trying to impress the media with how much you care about your wife who is so pregnant she might squat down on the sidewalk and pop your baby out at any moment) but the hand next to her is actually in his pocket. Either she refused to take his hand, or he really didn’t want to take hers. I can’t imagine it was the former, so I’m guessing he didn’t want to hold hands with her.

I think, on some level, Josh fundamentally hates Anna for being the constantly pregnant, clingy, creepy-eyed, vapid shackles that have kept him in the dungeon that is his life. Which isn’t fair, of course, because she didn’t make him look at CSA images, but still. I don’t think he’s ever cared a bit about her or any of their 11 billion M kids. Meanwhile Anna just keeps getting clingier and more vapid because she’s desperate to keep him. I’d feel sorry for her if she wasn’t such a dumb bitch. 

[graefin]

25 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

The body language in that clip is really interesting. Josh is not only not holding Anna’s hand (which would be he natural thing to do if you are trying to impress the media with how much you care about your wife who is so pregnant she might squat down on the sidewalk and pop your baby out at any moment) but the hand next to her is actually in his pocket. Either she refused to take his hand, or he really didn’t want to take hers. I can’t imagine it was the former, so I’m guessing he didn’t want to hold hands with her.

In the screenshot they aren't holding hands, but in the video clip, they actually are when they walk out of the courthouse. They're not only holding hands for the duration of the clip JoanArc posted above but are swinging arms in that cutesy, we're-so-in-love way teenagers do.

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, graefin said:

but are swinging arms in that cutesy, we're-so-in-love way teenagers do.

Gag me. 

ETA: Does anyone have any info from today's hearing on the final defense motion? 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Quilt Fairy

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, ozziemom said:

Yeah but farming out Michael who is what, 10? to be with James, who is 18? and apparently they are at a construction site? I think Anna is overwhelmed with “keeping sweet” while ready to burst with M#7. Not hard to understand but I think her kids should be more of a priority than they seem to be. And it says a lot about the grandparents, they are all MIA.

Farming out? A 10 year old hanging with his adult uncle. And by construction site, do you mean a house flip? How is it thought the M & Ms are being ignored or neglected by Anna? I know some of you get info from other sites, but other than the boys visiting the Wallers, I haven't seen anything.

I guess my parents were also neglectful by sending myself, sister and brother to my grandparents for a week, while my mom cared for my other brother, who was sick.

JB & M can't win. If they're home, JB is running the court case and if they're gone, they're unsupportive.

Sometimes it feels like JB, M and Anna are getting beat up more than Josh. JB and M didn't download CSA. They raised 19 kids, one of whom turned out to be scum. Anna didn't download CSA. Anna married Josh at age 20 and now 10+ years later she is living through a second scandal of Josh's making. I'm guessing everyday, for the last few months have been like hell for her. Staying with, and supporting Josh, makes her look like a confused idiot, but getting support and help with her kids doesn't, at least IMO.

[Future Cat Lady]

6 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

That would be amazing. An instant thirteenth vote for guilty!

The body language in that clip is really interesting. Josh is not only not holding Anna’s hand (which would be he natural thing to do if you are trying to impress the media with how much you care about your wife who is so pregnant she might squat down on the sidewalk and pop your baby out at any moment) but the hand next to her is actually in his pocket. Either she refused to take his hand, or he really didn’t want to take hers. I can’t imagine it was the former, so I’m guessing he didn’t want to hold hands with her.

I think, on some level, Josh fundamentally hates Anna for being the constantly pregnant, clingy, creepy-eyed, vapid shackles that have kept him in the dungeon that is his life. Which isn’t fair, of course, because she didn’t make him look at CSA images, but still. I don’t think he’s ever cared a bit about her or any of their 11 billion M kids. Meanwhile Anna just keeps getting clingier and more vapid because she’s desperate to keep him. I’d feel sorry for her if she wasn’t such a dumb bitch. 

That’s the thing right there. I don’t think Josh cares about Anna and treats her badly, but she just stays. She’s so brainwashed about being a martyr and against divorce that she will never leave.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Future Cat Lady said:

That’s the thing right there. I don’t think Josh cares about Anna and treats her badly, but she just stays. She’s so brainwashed about being a martyr and against divorce that she will never leave.

Yeah, and I'm sure she really does believe that God commands her to stay....

And I think if you're heavily into that kind of religion, you probably hold onto the belief that for every bit you suffer in this life because you're following God's commands, you're going to get a higher, more exalted and more comfy throne in heaven. .... So in her mind staying is her shot at getting something really good. And she'll have that for eternity. 

Put that beside the prospect of a person who's never held a job and being married from a pretty young age suddenly being on her own with seven kids and losing her shot at the comfiest throne in heaven because she abandoned her headship..... Well, it's no contest, really, I expect. 

Plus now she has the Duggars helping out with the kids. If she left Josh, then there's some probability -- from small to huge -- that all or much of that help would evaporate. And she loves that alliance with the Duggars -- part of America's True Christian Royalty....It makes her feel super important, I think. Her only regret there is that she hasn't been able to be on television with them as much as she'd like. 

I don't know to what degree her smile on Monday was voluntary and to what degree it was a rictus grin that was in large part miserable but that she pasted on to imitate the inappropriate smiles of Josh and the lawyer, as she was no doubt told to do. ....

But I do kind of think that she's been enamored of being part of the Royal Family for so long that there was probably at least a minuscule bit of her that was still proud of being out in public allied with a Duggar with the tv cameras on. I'm pretty sure she sees the tv-camera interest in the Duggs as only a testament to their greatness and how much God loves them and wants them to be America's role models. And she's part of that, and I'd bet it still makes her proud.

I do wish I knew how much she knows about exactly what Josh looked at and sought out....or whether he's actually convinced her that he didn't do the crime. But I don't really think that, even if she did know the worst details, that it'd make a difference. I think she'd just go into some sort of trance of denial because losing her place in Duggardom is the worst fate she could imagine for herself, not just in this world but in her imaginary next. 

I can't imagine a scenario in which she has the slightest interest in leaving.  

[Cinnabon]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Farming out? A 10 year old hanging with his adult uncle. And by construction site, do you mean a house flip? How is it thought the M & Ms are being ignored or neglected by Anna? I know some of you get info from other sites, but other than the boys visiting the Wallers, I haven't seen anything.

I guess my parents were also neglectful by sending myself, sister and brother to my grandparents for a week, while my mom cared for my other brother, who was sick.

JB & M can't win. If they're home, JB is running the court case and if they're gone, they're unsupportive.

Sometimes it feels like JB, M and Anna are getting beat up more than Josh. JB and M didn't download CSA. They raised 19 kids, one of whom turned out to be scum. Anna didn't download CSA. Anna married Josh at age 20 and now 10+ years later she is living through a second scandal of Josh's making. I'm guessing everyday, for the last few months have been like hell for her. Staying with, and supporting Josh, makes her look like a confused idiot, but getting support and help with her kids doesn't, at least IMO.

Well, him being at a construction site isn’t that awful, but shouldn’t he be in schools on the weekdays?

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, and I'm sure she really does believe that God commands her to stay....

And I think if you're heavily into that kind of religion, you probably hold onto the belief that for every bit you suffer in this life because you're following God's commands, you're going to get a higher, more exalted and more comfy throne in heaven. .... So in her mind staying is her shot at getting something really good. And she'll have that for eternity. 

Put that beside the prospect of a person who's never held a job and being married from a pretty young age suddenly being on her own with seven kids and losing her shot at the comfiest throne in heaven because she abandoned her headship..... Well, it's no contest, really, I expect. 

Plus now she has the Duggars helping out with the kids. If she left Josh, then there's some probability -- from small to huge -- that all or much of that help would evaporate. And she loves that alliance with the Duggars -- part of America's True Christian Royalty....It makes her feel super important, I think. Her only regret there is that she hasn't been able to be on television with them as much as she'd like. 

I don't know to what degree her smile on Monday was voluntary and to what degree it was a rictus grin that was in large part miserable but that she pasted on to imitate the inappropriate smiles of Josh and the lawyer, as she was no doubt told to do. ....

But I do kind of think that she's been enamored of being part of the Royal Family for so long that there was probably at least a minuscule bit of her that was still proud of being out in public allied with a Duggar with the tv cameras on. I'm pretty sure she sees the tv-camera interest in the Duggs as only a testament to their greatness and how much God loves them and wants them to be America's role models. And she's part of that, and I'd bet it still makes her proud.

I do wish I knew how much she knows about exactly what Josh looked at and sought out....or whether he's actually convinced her that he didn't do the crime. But I don't really think that, even if she did know the worst details, that it'd make a difference. I think she'd just go into some sort of trance of denial because losing her place in Duggardom is the worst fate she could imagine for herself, not just in this world but in her imaginary next. 

I can't imagine a scenario in which she has the slightest interest in leaving.  

I also wonder how much she really knows and understands what Josh viewed. I DO think you can continue to love someone who is attracted to children. I think sexuality and who and what we’re attracted to is something innate and can’t be changed. I feel sorry for those attracted to kids because they can never act on their desires (or should never!). The only thing they can do is try to avoid any kind of temptation and stay in therapy, where they are honest and open about it all. There are also “chemical castrations” or hormone therapies that some use, and I’m sure aren’t pleasant. So Anna could continue to love Josh as a person, but she would have to understand and accept this brutal reality. And avoiding temptation would mean that Josh could not be live with or be around kids, period. And no or only supervised computer use. Even if Josh eventually realizes this about himself (and that’s unlikely), would Anna?

[Churchhoney]

7 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I also wonder how much she really knows and understands what Josh viewed. I DO think you can continue to love someone who is attracted to children. I think sexuality and who and what we’re attracted to is something innate and can’t be changed. I feel sorry for those attracted to kids because they can never act on their desires (or should never!). The only thing they can do is try to avoid any kind of temptation and stay in therapy, where they are honest and open about it all. There are also “chemical castrations” or hormone therapies that some use, and I’m sure aren’t pleasant. So Anna could continue to love Josh as a person, but she would have to understand and accept this brutal reality. And avoiding temptation would mean that Josh could not be live with or be around kids, period. And no or only supervised computer use. Even if Josh eventually realizes this about himself (and that’s unlikely), would Anna?

Yep. Makes sense. 

I have to say that I doubt Josh is actually primarily attracted to children, though.

I think he's attracted to sex as domination and power, period, and that he's mainly aroused by seeing that someone weaker than he is or someone representative of people or things he resents can be made to suffer. 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Cinnabon]

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Yep. Makes sense. 

I have to say that I don't think Josh is actually primarily attracted to children, though.

I think he's attracted to sex as domination and power and that he's aroused by seeing that someone weaker than he is or someone he resents can be made to suffer.

 

He would have to be able to realize that about himself and go to therapy before he could begin to be a productive member of society. Maybe he’ll get some decent therapy in prison!

[Quilt Fairy]

Yeah, just hanging out at a construction site:

 

[Churchhoney]

Just now, Cinnabon said:

He would have to be able to realize that about himself and go to therapy before he could begin to be a productive member of society. Maybe he’ll get some decent therapy in prison!

Exactly. We can hope. 

He's spent a lifetime being protected from ever having to reflect on anything, or feel empathy or guilt or curb his arrogance, though. So it's gonna be an uphill climb for anybody who tries to rehab him at all, I expect. 

 

[MargeGunderson]

There is an interesting episode of This American Life that focuses on the question of whether it’s possible to treat pedophiles. It’s centered on a young man who is attracted to children and does not want to act on it, so is in search of support and resources to help him. It’s called Tarred and Feathered, and you can listen to it here. (I don’t recall this episode being graphic but obviously the topic is disturbing).

Edited September 29, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[Cinnabon]

31 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

There is an interesting episode of This American Life that focuses on the question of whether it’s possible to treat pedophiles. It’s centered on a young man who is attracted to children and does not want to act on it, so is in search of support and resources to help him. It’s called Tarred and Fethered, and you can listen to it here. (I don’t recall this episode being graphic but obviously the topic is disturbing).

There’s a good film (if you can tolerate the subject matter) with Kevin Bacon called “The Woodsman” about a pedophile getting out of prison and trying to live without offending .

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Yep. Makes sense. 

I have to say that I doubt Josh is actually primarily attracted to children, though.

I think he's attracted to sex as domination and power, period, and that he's mainly aroused by seeing that someone weaker than he is or someone representative of people or things he resents can be made to suffer. 

 

I have to agree with you. He has managed to reproduce with his wife, then there is the whole Ashley Madison thing....... He strikes me as a sadist or someone with sadistic tendencies. 

[Spazamanaz]

Just now, Cinnabon said:

There’s a good film (if you can tolerate the subject matter) with Kevin Bacon called “The Woodsman” about a pedophile getting out of prison and trying to live without offending .

I saw that movie years ago. Kevin Bacons wife Kyra Sedgwick is in it as well. 

[hathorlive]

34 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I have to agree with you. He has managed to reproduce with his wife, then there is the whole Ashley Madison thing....... He strikes me as a sadist or someone with sadistic tendencies. 

Or it could be that he needs even more shocking and depraved images to get off.  It's hard to classify people as pedophiles based on their porn, but he's already offended against actual children.

[Vivigirl10]

It's really amazing when you think about the fact that the Duggars operate under the intent of "breaking the spirit" of all their children to make them robotic followers.  But in the instance of Joshie, the chosen one, they did nothing but feed the monster and allow it to grow.  Stories have been told of the other kids displaying personality signs of independance or selfishness (solely according to Boob and Hairball) and it was beaten out of them.  But Josh molests his sisters and it's all poo-poo, it's not his fault, let's set poor little baby up for a comfy life and hide this all away.  It is just mind boggling to me.  

 

[Churchhoney]

43 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I have to agree with you. He has managed to reproduce with his wife, then there is the whole Ashley Madison thing....... He strikes me as a sadist or someone with sadistic tendencies. 

Yeah. I agree. That sex-show-biz worker he hooked up with described him. And she didn't describe anything like a person who looked around for somebody who was underage or who could pass for it or somebody who practiced standard BDSM or something.      

She described somebody who didn't seem interested in sex so much as he was interested in just being cold and mean to somebody and treating her like she barely existed......Who, according to her description as I remember it, was only interested in just batting her around. That was apparently his thrill, what he was interested in paying for. 

And that's what he did in arguably one of the best times of his life -- a time when he had a high-paying job and his "work" was going out in front of microphones and telling people what to do. .... which he clearly had always liked doing. Something that fed his power cravings outside of mean sex. But he still wanted only meanness, even then. 

[Churchhoney]

23 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Or it could be that he needs even more shocking and depraved images to get off.  It's hard to classify people as pedophiles based on their porn, but he's already offended against actual children.

Absolutely. I don't think he's not attracted to children. Or that his cravings haven't'escalated over time. I just think that, given other things about his personality, and given the few things we've heard about his life as a whole, it's likely that his cravings have always gone beyond that. 

[Churchhoney]

24 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

It's really amazing when you think about the fact that the Duggars operate under the intent of "breaking the spirit" of all their children to make them robotic followers.  But in the instance of Joshie, the chosen one, they did nothing but feed the monster and allow it to grow.  Stories have been told of the other kids displaying personality signs of independance or selfishness (solely according to Boob and Hairball) and it was beaten out of them.  But Josh molests his sisters and it's all poo-poo, it's not his fault, let's set poor little baby up for a comfy life and hide this all away.  It is just mind boggling to me.  

 

 He was born to be "the leader of the home," according to Gothard, a lot of other patriarchal leaders, and the Duggars..... Looks to me like JB and M were just super excited to have their firstborn be a boy and a boy who seemed pretty smart to them and good looking to them and who could sing (apparently. I don't know if I've ever heard the alleged "opera" singing...although maybe I've heard one little clip at some point.)

And I think they even liked his arrogant attitude. They seem to have put him forward to their church, Gothard, and even government friends as being somebody who would grow to be a leader of the nation, not just of their home.  And then of course they would have been able to bask in the reflected glory. 

Worked out a bit differently. 

[CandyCaneTree]

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Well, him being at a construction site isn’t that awful, but shouldn’t he be in schools on the weekdays?

What school they want each generation dumber than the last generation. 

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Exactly. We can hope. 

He's spent a lifetime being protected from ever having to reflect on anything, or feel empathy or guilt or curb his arrogance, though. So it's gonna be an uphill climb for anybody who tries to rehab him at all, I expect. 

 

While agree with this to a point, I don't feel its 100% accurate.

Being humiliated in front of church elders and church members, in addition to being sent away from your family as a teen for 6 months is a fairly harsh punishment.

And Jesus Camp, though certainly not jail, its not the Ritz either. Most 24 hour programs have strict schedules and chore assignments, in addition to treatment. I'm guessing Josh felt he was above the schedule and chores, but he would have had to adhere to them. Again, not jail, but certainly a punishment.

And then there's the public humiliation. Josh's crimes, indiscretions and his raunchy sexual proclivities are permanently all over the internet. Sitting in a restaurant wondering if the folks at the next table are disgusted by you. Walking through an amusement park and having parents pull their kids into safety. None of that can feel good.

With all that said, if Josh had a conduct disorder as a kid, and now has antisocial personality disorder, no amount of punishment or leniency would make much difference.

Edited September 29, 2021 by GeeGolly

[mynextmistake]

17 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Farming out? A 10 year old hanging with his adult uncle. And by construction site, do you mean a house flip? How is it thought the M & Ms are being ignored or neglected by Anna? I know some of you get info from other sites, but other than the boys visiting the Wallers, I haven't seen anything.

I guess my parents were also neglectful by sending myself, sister and brother to my grandparents for a week, while my mom cared for my other brother, who was sick.

JB & M can't win. If they're home, JB is running the court case and if they're gone, they're unsupportive.

Sometimes it feels like JB, M and Anna are getting beat up more than Josh. JB and M didn't download CSA. They raised 19 kids, one of whom turned out to be scum. Anna didn't download CSA. Anna married Josh at age 20 and now 10+ years later she is living through a second scandal of Josh's making. I'm guessing everyday, for the last few months have been like hell for her. Staying with, and supporting Josh, makes her look like a confused idiot, but getting support and help with her kids doesn't, at least IMO.

And some posters might fiercely criticize Jill and Derick or Jeremy and Jinger for doing things that are nowhere near as horrible as downloading CSA while thinking it’s not such a big deal that JB, Michelle and Anna jeopardized the safety of their kids by allowing a child molester to be around them all the time. 🤷‍♀️ Different things bother different people. 

I would imagine that the past several months have probably also been pretty awful for Anna’s kids, who might be expected to need the close support of their mother to get through it. If Anna occasionally gets a babysitter so she can attend court hearings, that’s one thing. But if she’s leaving the kids with relatives 24/7 so she can go hang out with Josh at the Reber house, that’s entirely different. Her primary responsibility right now is to her children. They deserve a mother who puts their needs first, not the needs of their loser pedophile father. 

[Quilt Fairy]

This appears current as of Wednesday afternoon, so it looks like the judge dismissed the 5th motion as well.  It's popping up on a lot of news sites.

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/judge-denies-josh-duggar-bid-dismiss-child-porn-80309573

Edited September 30, 2021 by Quilt Fairy

[GeeGolly]

9 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

And some posters might fiercely criticize Jill and Derick or Jeremy and Jinger for doing things that are nowhere near as horrible as downloading CSA while thinking it’s not such a big deal that JB, Michelle and Anna jeopardized the safety of their kids by allowing a child molester to be around them all the time. 🤷‍♀️ Different things bother different people. 

I would imagine that the past several months have probably also been pretty awful for Anna’s kids, who might be expected to need the close support of their mother to get through it. If Anna occasionally gets a babysitter so she can attend court hearings, that’s one thing. But if she’s leaving the kids with relatives 24/7 so she can go hang out with Josh at the Reber house, that’s entirely different. Her primary responsibility right now is to her children. They deserve a mother who puts their needs first, not the needs of their loser pedophile father. 

Totally agree with this. My point wasn't that neglecting the kids is okay. My point was, it doesn't appear there's any evidence of this. I don't think letting her boys stay with the Wallers for a week is farming out her kids. Other than that, I've seen her kids at a baseball game with the Duggar family one day, Michael with his uncle one day and Meredith with Jana one day. For all we know, or at least I know, Anna is neglecting Josh. 

It seems to me, some things that start out as speculation become fact. That's why I asked in my previous post if some info about Anna neglecting her kids was seen on other sites. Anna neglecting her kids would certainly bother me. I just haven't seen it.

Came back to add, I haven't seen any post on here saying its okay for Josh to be around his kids or any kids.

Edited September 30, 2021 by GeeGolly

[Tikichick]

16 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

While agree with this to a point, I don't feel its 100% accurate.

Being humiliated in front of church elders and church members, in addition to being sent away from your family as a teen for 6 months is a fairly harsh punishment.

And Jesus Camp, though certainly not jail, its not the Ritz either. Most 24 hour programs have strict schedules and chore assignments, in addition to treatment. I'm guessing Josh felt he was above the schedule and chores, but he would have had to adhere to them. Again, not jail, but certainly a punishment.

And then there's the public humiliation. Josh's crimes, indiscretions and his raunchy sexual proclivities are permanently all over the internet. Sitting in a restaurant wondering if the folks at the next table are disgusted by you. Walking through an amusement park and having parents pull their kids into safety. None of that can feel good.

With all that said, if Josh had a conduct disorder as a kid, and now has antisocial personality disorder, no amount of punishment or leniency would make much difference.

If his drive truly springs from predatory proclivities it's likely that what truly bothered (and bothers) him was/is obstacles to freely satisfy his urges and things like humiliation and deprivation and harshness are petty annoyances.   Depending on how he is wired he may not have even felt humiliation, instead have thoughts that those looking down on him simply don't understand what he understands, in actual fact feeling superior to them for their ignorance.   Most predators understand that their urges are either illegal or unacceptable in society and develop keen instincts in order to achieve their goals without being detected.   Many feel that society is simply unaware and with time will come to accept what predators believe is actually right.

 

[cmr2014]

22 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

I also wonder how much she really knows and understands what Josh viewed. I DO think you can continue to love someone who is attracted to children. I think sexuality and who and what we’re attracted to is something innate and can’t be changed. I feel sorry for those attracted to kids because they can never act on their desires (or should never!). The only thing they can do is try to avoid any kind of temptation and stay in therapy, where they are honest and open about it all. There are also “chemical castrations” or hormone therapies that some use, and I’m sure aren’t pleasant. So Anna could continue to love Josh as a person, but she would have to understand and accept this brutal reality. And avoiding temptation would mean that Josh could not be live with or be around kids, period. And no or only supervised computer use. Even if Josh eventually realizes this about himself (and that’s unlikely), would Anna?

I'm not sure how much any of this matters to her.

Based on my understanding of their beliefs (which I don't suggest I completely understand, and which are often contradictory), Josh didn't do anything wrong -- Satan did. Satan has been after Josh for a long time -- largely because of his tremendous potential as a leader.

If there are any problems here, they are a family matter. What Josh needs are Christian counseling, prayer, and righteously fulfilled desires -- which can all be taken care of at home.

Satan is working through law enforcement and prosecutors to try and being down one of God's chosen. It's all part of the evil government's plot against Christianity.

I think that with real money on the line here, JB is getting pretty tired of all of this and may be having a hard time completely believing that the problem is Satan and not Josh. On the other hand, I think Anna is still a true believer.

[MargeGunderson]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

If his drive truly springs from predatory proclivities it's likely that what truly bothered (and bothers) him was/is obstacles to freely satisfy his urges and things like humiliation and deprivation and harshness are petty annoyances.   Depending on how he is wired he may not have even felt humiliation, instead have thoughts that those looking down on him simply don't understand what he understands, in actual fact feeling superior to them for their ignorance.   Most predators understand that their urges are either illegal or unacceptable in society and develop keen instincts in order to achieve their goals without being detected.   Many feel that society is simply unaware and with time will come to accept what predators believe is actually right.

 

It’s also possible that if he did feel humiliation or harsh punishment, he’s made it part of his pathology. It’s not unheard of for abusers (and serial killers) to abuse their victims in ways similar to the abuse or punishment they themselves received. Not an excuse for Josh’s behavior, but possibly some insight into how it was shaped. 
 

Yes, 90% of the podcasts I listen to are true crime, and most of my Wikipedia searches involve serial killers. How did you guess?

Edited September 30, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[Insert Username]

I watched the video of them walking out of the courtroom, and I don't think Anna was smug at all (he was though) She looks devastated, her smile is what can best be described as "rictus grin", and her eyes look dead. Her jaw is clearly tensed  as if she is pressing her lips together to force a smile. She is defeated. He is strutting and she seems like she is barely putting one foot in front of the other and wants nothing more than to get out of there.

With JB and M out of town, she is really on her own to deal with this. 

[BigBingerBro]

Why The Internet Is Turning On Josh Duggar's Wife Anna  

[BigBingerBro]

BAD MOVE! Josh Duggar & pregnant wife Anna bought land & mobile home for six kids just ONE WEEK before child pornography arrest

[hathorlive]

38 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

BAD MOVE! Josh Duggar & pregnant wife Anna bought land & mobile home for six kids just ONE WEEK before child pornography arrest

Gee, I wonder who they bought land for a dollar from?  It's nice that Anna is tied to tons of LLC's whose activities she is clueless about.  That's a good way to end up in jail, dear.

[crazy8s]

they bought it from some guy in Texas according to the filed papers. So a sweet friend. One of her other llcs still owns what I think is the house they used to live in.  Both Josh and Anna still seem to be registered to vote at that address.

[SusanM]

2 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

BAD MOVE! Josh Duggar & pregnant wife Anna bought land & mobile home for six kids just ONE WEEK before child pornography arrest

I've just been reading this thread and I aside from all else I was trying to imagine what the warehouse the family was living in would look like.  The picture in this article, if accurate, is even worse than I had expected.  What a pathetic family the Duggars are.  All of them.

[Minivanessa]

2 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Gee, I wonder who they bought land for a dollar from?  It's nice that Anna is tied to tons of LLC's whose activities she is clueless about.  That's a good way to end up in jail, dear.

I very much doubt that they bought the property for a dollar. We've seen this before. The phrase “one dollar and other valuable consideration” is used as standard boilerplate language in many legal documents, including property deeds, in Arkansas and many other US states. It documents that the seller of the property has received something of value in return for transferring title to the property to the buyer. The actual purchase price isn't specified. I think that's all laid out in separate closing documents that the parties sign and exchange, but that are not matters of public record like the deed is.

The Sun's stringers who put together that story just read the deed and assumed the sale price was one dollar. 

I think we've discussed the deed language of "one dollar and other valuable consideration" around here before. IIRC someone here had sold their mother's house in Arkansas and the deed they signed had that "one dollar" language although the sale price was not one dollar. This "one dollar" red herring is almost worthy of some kind of sticky note, lol.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Jeeves

[Zella]

I don't think they are looking at deeds.

The screenshot of the map on the article is from the property assessor site, and I think that is where they are getting their info, not the deed directly. 

I know folks have said that wording on a deed is common, and I will defer to them on that because I don't deal with deeds. But I've done my fair share of snooping on the assessor site for years, and that is not a common designation on there for a sale, at least not in what I have found over the years. It's almost always a dollar amount as in a legit sale price. But maybe the properties I have snooped out were less invested in concealing sales. 

The location of that property is really interesting. It's on Beaver Lake and is rather removed from the rest of the family's residences. Before Jill and Derick moved to their subdivision, they were in Sonora, and this is farther east than even there. It's not an epic distance to travel, but it's about 30 minutes away from the TTH. Like they have to drive through all of Springdale and then some to get there.  

Edited September 30, 2021 by Zella

[crazy8s]

the paperwork filed doesn't have a tax stamp but does have an official document from the State of Arkansas of Finance and Administration, Miscellaneous Tax Section. That has the purchase price at $1  -$0.00 taxes. An added note "a transfer price of $100 or less.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

the paperwork filed doesn't have a tax stamp but does have an official document from the State of Arkansas of Finance and Administration, Miscellaneous Tax Section. That has the purchase price at $1  -$0.00 taxes. An added note "a transfer price of $100 or less.

That's interesting! I noticed it appraised for about $35K last year.