Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[iwantcookies]

I will refer to the baby as Mashley in my head for eternity. Poor tater bug. 
 

 

[Temperance]

9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

They should have skipped a step and just named Madyson, Mortified, because that's what she'll spend her adulthood feeling.

She can change her name, and I hope Madyson Lily's future is not dictated by her parents' present. I hope she has marvelous future where she ends up in very different and much better place than her mother.

I would change my name if I were her. Or go by Lily.

[JoanArc]

I’ve come to the conclusion that Anna will become pregnant before the trial.

 In August, Ashleeee Partition Duggar will be born.

 

[BitterApple]

I'd go by Lilly just to fuck up Anna's "M" theme.

[merylinkid]

5 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Gelfand responded with a need for “proper nouns, dates, and specific allegations.”

“You’re not seriously going to tell me you don’t know,” the judge countered. “It just seems disingenuous. Very disingenuous.” He also noted that the “information was the subject of a lawsuit [Duggar] filed in this court.”

I LOLed at this.   You don't know the information that was contained in your own damn lawsuit?   yeah that goes over real well with judges playing dumb.   

Head Idiot can refuse to answer any questions.   BUT, if he is just refusing to answer and NOT pleading the 5th, he can be jailed for contempt of court until he either agrees to answer OR the trial is over and his testimony becomes irrelevant.   

I really hope they don't drag the girls into this.   They never asked for the Sex Pest to be their brother or be molested by him.   I mean forcing them to testify is NOT going to help his case.   So all he is doing is basically looking at his sisters and saying "hey I have to go through all this, so do you.  Because I am not going to suffer alone."

As for Anna's leaving court dress, I see more than a bit of knee.   Naughty, naughty.   Some poor cameraman just got frauded.

[GeeGolly]

The next ten days will be the calm before the shit storm. On the Thursday before it all begins, we can say thanks that we're not Duggars. And two weeks later, hopefully we're celebrating an early holiday gift of Josh being lead away in handcuffs. 🦃🎍

[Quilt Fairy]

11 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I LOLed at this.   You don't know the information that was contained in your own damn lawsuit?   yeah that goes over real well with judges playing dumb.

The lawsuit the judge is referring to is not related to the current charges.  It's the suit the 4 sisters filed against InTouch magazine.  But the same judge is presiding over that case, so he's going to be aware of the history. 

[lascuba]

I wonder how long jury selection will take. The last time I was on jury duty, it was for an armed robbery case, and I was there for 2 weeks before the prosecutor dismissed me (this was during the phase when the prosecutor and defense could dismiss jurors without giving a reason--prosecutor wanted to get rid of me before but the judge wouldn't let him 🤣 ). By the time I left, they still weren't done selecting, and assuming they dismissed other jurors after me, they would have had to go through the whole lengthy questioning process for more jurors. All this for a trial that was expected to last a few days. I'd never made it that far in jury selection, so I wonder if that's typical, or if federal jury selection is more efficient. 

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

I really hope they don't drag the girls into this.   They never asked for the Sex Pest to be their brother or be molested by him.   I mean forcing them to testify is NOT going to help his case.   So all he is doing is basically looking at his sisters and saying "hey I have to go through all this, so do you.  Because I am not going to suffer alone."

I think the Feds calling Boob shields the girls. Smuggar confessed his actions to him. He spike of Smuggar's actions during the Megyn Kelly interview. That should be enough proof that he did the deeds. 

Emily D Baker likes the judge, and she hadn't even heard the proceedings from today when he definitely got sassy. She was responding to yesterday's motions. 

[hathorlive]

5 hours ago, drafan said:

Anna looks like the Yipes Stripes Beechnut Gum Zebra.

The guy (attorney??) marching ahead of the Smuggs could be Joshley's briefcased twin.

OMG.  You date me with that reference.  My sister saved all the wrappers and made some strange chain out of them.  I chewed that stuff forever, just to get her wrappers.  When people moan and groan about the Internet and wishing for simpler times, I point to this.  We were so bored we made things out of trash.

[Churchhoney]

57 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I wonder how long jury selection will take. The last time I was on jury duty, it was for an armed robbery case, and I was there for 2 weeks before the prosecutor dismissed me (this was during the phase when the prosecutor and defense could dismiss jurors without giving a reason--prosecutor wanted to get rid of me before but the judge wouldn't let him 🤣 ). By the time I left, they still weren't done selecting, and assuming they dismissed other jurors after me, they would have had to go through the whole lengthy questioning process for more jurors. All this for a trial that was expected to last a few days. I'd never made it that far in jury selection, so I wonder if that's typical, or if federal jury selection is more efficient. 

I've been through jury selection a bunch of times, both in federal court and in our local court. And it's never gone nearly that slowly in either one......But I have a feeling the efficiency varies a lot from court to court and even judge to judge.  

[ozziemom]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'd go by Lilly just to fuck up Anna's "M" theme.

The Duggars go off their letter theme when it suits them, see Dithy or Hannie or Si. So who knows what this poor baby will be called.

[Boston]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

OMG.  You date me with that reference.  My sister saved all the wrappers and made some strange chain out of them.  I chewed that stuff forever, just to get her wrappers.  When people moan and groan about the Internet and wishing for simpler times, I point to this.  We were so bored we made things out of trash.

Raising hand - I made gum wrapper chains when i was at daycamp WAY back in the 70s.

[Tdoc72]

8 hours ago, ozziemom said:

This is the funniest part of the article. Where in the world is Boob? 

Have they checked Michelle's lady parts?  We all know he loves to go there. 

7 hours ago, BetyBee said:

If Anna attends her brother's wedding, we may see that black dress again. It actually looks nice on her, but I think it would be more appropriate for a wedding than for a court appearance. The sheer strips at the hem and the sleeves seem more like evening wear to me. I would have worn black shoes too. I could be wrong. I'm not experienced in accompanying a spouse to a CSAM case.

I thought the same about the brown shoes. She could’ve found a cheap black pair somewhere. She could’ve asked someone to check the Duggar’s community shoe pile in the laundry room. 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

13 hours ago, JoanArc said:

In August, Ashleeee Partition Partyshyn Duggar will be born.

FTFY

Edited November 19, 2021 by Ijustwantsomechips

[Rootbeer]

15 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I'm sure there are steps they can take, like fines or a warrant for his arrest. 

I wonder if Boob would lie under oath? Do they still use a Bible? 

If he is a witness at trial and doesn't appear voluntarily, the judge will issue a subpoena for his  appearance at the appointed date and time.  If he doesn't appear, deputies will be sent to fetch him.  He could also be found in contempt of court and fined and/or jailed.

I was once a defense witness for a murder trial, a hostile one.  I was part of the defense' attempt to claim the victim had committed suicide and wasn't murdered.  I was privy to her state of mind having seen her and talked about it a week before she died.  The defense wanted me to testify that, due to some health issues, she was depressed.  I let the defense attorney know that, while I certainly thought she had some problems; I did not think she was suicidal and that, in that case, she must've been murdered, IMO.  Anyway, he told me the above info as to what would happen if I didn't appear.  When it comes to criminal cases, witnesses cannot decline without consequences. On the day I was supposed to appear, I got a call from the court telling me to expect a summons.  As it turns out, the defense changed their minds about using me, probably to avoid the prosecutor cross-examining me.  Anyway, it didn't matter, her husband was convicted.  And got a new trial and was convicted again.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Rootbeer]

15 hours ago, coconspirator said:

The babysitter?

Is there any possibility that one of his sisters-Jill maybe-would testify for the prosecution regarding his past behavior towards her? The real nail in the coffin would be if Joy testified. She was only 5 when he abused her. I can't see her doing it, even if she believes he is guilty. 

The thing with the sisters is that the two who have talked about it publicly, Jessa and Jill, both claimed that they were asleep when it happened and didn't even know until their parents told them later.  I don't believe that, but that's what they said.  So, if called to the stand at trial, they are either going to have to stick to their story or, if it isn't true, contradict it completely. Their testimony is no more than hearsay if they continue to claim that they weren't awake and that won't help the prosecution.  If they did get up on the stand and discuss their personal recollections of the abuse, the defense is going to try to make it look like they changed their story for nefarious reasons although the prosecution could then open the entire can of Gothard worms and have the witness, who I agree would most likely be Jill, describe her upbringing in detail including the way her parents controlled their every move as the reason that she didn't tell the truth to Megyn Kelly or to the police all those years ago.

I think the 5 year old who is now an adult could be called or the other sister who was attacked in the laundry room because both were obviously awake.  However, the defense could claim that 20 year old memories from a person who was 5 at the time are unreliable which could hold some weight with the jury.  The other sister is likely to not be a good witness, IMO, she doesn't come across as the sharpest tool in the shed and seems pretty easily led and I think she would need a lot of coaching to testify and might not come across as believable.

IMO, it's the babysitter who would be the one to testify about the assault when Josh was a minor.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Rootbeer]

15 hours ago, Zella said:

Definitely going to defer to our resident lawyers, but I think if Jim Bob is subpoenaed, he will be able to evoke the fifth amendment. Because it's a matter of him being required to be there rather than volunteering, essentially, so he has the legal means to protect himself in that way. 

The 5th amendment is about self-incrimination.  JB isn't suspected of any crime in relation to Josh' charges, so he cannot use it.  Now, if the prosecution calls him, they can request that he be designated as a hostile witness to let the jury know that he is not testifying willingly.  Although, I would think that most juries would expect that family members might be trying to protect the defendant as much as possible and they need to be careful when weighing that testimony.

[SusanM]

11 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

If they did get up on the stand and discuss their personal recollections of the abuse, the defense is going to try to make it look like they changed their story for nefarious reasons although the prosecution could then open the entire can of Gothard worms and have the witness, who I agree would most likely be Jill, describe her upbringing in detail including the way her parents controlled their every move as the reason that she didn't tell the truth to Megyn Kelly or to the police all those years ago.

This is why I think they are going to have Jim Bob testify.  They are openly on the record admitting that the accusations against Josh were true.  The judge and, hopefully, the jury are not going to care about their fundie explanations and excuses they are only going to care that it actually did happen.  I'd love to see Jim Bob on the stand trying to accuse the devil and see where that gets them.

[Guest]

As indicated by the mod notes, speculating or joking about Josh Duggar (or anyone) being sexually assaulted is against the rules. Any posts referring to this possibility will be removed and the poster may lose their ability to post.

Additionally, the politics policy is still in place. Do not post about Jim Bob's campaign or refer to it in any way.

[Rootbeer]

4 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

This is why I think they are going to have Jim Bob testify.  They are openly on the record admitting that the accusations against Josh were true.  The judge and, hopefully, the jury are not going to care about their fundie explanations and excuses they are only going to care that it actually did happen.  I'd love to see Jim Bob on the stand trying to accuse the devil and see where that gets them.

Yep, Josh confessed to Jim Bob; he's the link they can use to bring Josh' prior acts into the current situation.  JB has willingly relayed this information in multiple venues including police reports and on national TV.  There is no way to walk it back and claim it didn't happen.  

[absnow54]

20 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I think the 5 year old who is now an adult could be called or the other sister who was attacked in the laundry room because both were obviously awake.  However, the defense could claim that 20 year old memories from a person who was 5 at the time are unreliable which could hold some weight with the jury. 

I looked at the police report again, and one of the sisters witnessed what Josh did to the 5 year old and told JB about it, so that might be the sister who will potentially be called to the stand. 

[quarks]

Yeah. If Jim Bob gets on the stand, I think he essentially has five options:

1. Say nothing, and risk getting found in contempt of court.

2. Claim that he doesn't remember, which I think a jury will find hard to believe.

3. Deny that Josh confessed to anything, and risk getting impeached in court and facing perjury charges. 

4. Try to downplay this again, which did not go well with most people last time, and may not go well with a jury this time.

5. Testify to the confession, helping send his own son to jail.

Since these are all bad options for him, I would not be surprised to see him continue to try to evade the subpoena. Which comes with its own risks.

On another note, I admit I'm kinda wondering if any of the Duggarlings have announcements to make right now (pregnancy/engagement/wedding date/new hair dryer/new hamburger wait that's just Jeremy) and if so, if any of them are going to tell Jim Bob, yeah....you know, I think I'll wait until January to announce this. After the trial, you know? Sure, sure, this announcement could be a distraction from the trial, but....I think I'll wait!

[merylinkid]

None of the sisters who are still in JB's control will be good witnesses.   While Jill may want see her siblings and her nieces and nephews again someday, she is probably the best witness.   She's had therapy, so she is in a better place to tell them that JB controlled the whole family, there was no way she could speak up when it happened or later when it came out.   

Not sure about using JB.   Sure Josh confessed to him so it might come in under the hearsay exception as a party statement.   But its still only Josh telling him.   It's not like an eyewitness to the actual events.

But Head Idiot isn't hiding because he suddenly decided its time for a game of adult hide and seek.    

[absnow54]

22 minutes ago, quarks said:

2. Claim that he doesn't remember, which I think a jury will find hard to believe.

I'm assuming the prosecution will be reading the police report line by line and asking if Jim Bob said it.

Edited November 19, 2021 by absnow54

[hathorlive]

17 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Was Josh holding his jacket like that because it doesn't fit and he didn't want it flapping in the wind? Or was he trying to show his wedding ring? It's a weird way to hold your jacket.

[quarks]

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I'm assuming the prosecution will be reading the police report line by line and asking if Jim Bob said it.

Well, he can claim that he doesn't remember exactly what he told police nearly 20 years ago, which, fair enough. But the prosecution could possibly counter that with snippets from the more recent Megyn Kelly interview, where Jim Bob admitted to remembering more or less what happened, if not anyone's exact words.

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Was Josh holding his jacket like that because it doesn't fit and he didn't want it flapping in the wind? Or was he trying to show his wedding ring? It's a weird way to hold your jacket.

I think he can't close it because he is too fat. 

[Gemma Violet]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

On another note, I admit I'm kinda wondering if any of the Duggarlings have announcements to make right now (pregnancy/engagement/wedding date/new hair dryer/new hamburger wait that's just Jeremy) 

I had to laugh at this.  So true. 😄

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

On another note, I admit I'm kinda wondering if any of the Duggarlings have announcements to make right now (pregnancy/engagement/wedding date/new hair dryer/new hamburger wait that's just Jeremy) and if so, if any of them are going to tell Jim Bob, yeah....you know, I think I'll wait until January to announce this. After the trial, you know? Sure, sure, this announcement could be a distraction from the trial, but....I think I'll wait!

Unfortunately, no announcement will distract from the trial, except Jeremy's hamburger. All will be picked up online, which one mention of the event, followed by three paragraphs of Josh's (alleged) crime.

[RedDelicious]

23 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-wife-anna-arrive-in-court-pre-trial-hearing-child-porn-case/

 

That department store Calvin Klein dress is ruined for me 😔 I have been trying to find that for my mom in her size for a month.

Also it would appear that Pest is so big he can’t button his suit jacket.

[dariafan]

I picture jb acting like the doofus son form lularich.  The one who at the deposition kept saying he couldn’t recall …

[Jynnan tonnix]

12 hours ago, Boston said:

Raising hand - I made gum wrapper chains when i was at daycamp WAY back in the 70s.

Did we go to camp together? LOL

[BigBingerBro]

BY HIS SIDE Josh Duggar’s wife Anna ‘held his hand’ as they attended court hearing ahead of his child pornography trial

[Rootbeer]

3 hours ago, merylinkid said:

None of the sisters who are still in JB's control will be good witnesses.   While Jill may want see her siblings and her nieces and nephews again someday, she is probably the best witness.   She's had therapy, so she is in a better place to tell them that JB controlled the whole family, there was no way she could speak up when it happened or later when it came out.   

Not sure about using JB.   Sure Josh confessed to him so it might come in under the hearsay exception as a party statement.   But its still only Josh telling him.   It's not like an eyewitness to the actual events.

But Head Idiot isn't hiding because he suddenly decided its time for a game of adult hide and seek.    

I doubt JB is actually hiding from a summons from the court.  He has access to Josh' legal team and I guarantee that none of them would counsel him to evade the subpoena.  It will only stir up more pre-trial publicity and make it harder to find jurors who haven't heard that Josh molested multiple young girls.  It also calls attention to that very fact which is not going to be helpful for JB's political aspirations or anyone's future as a public figure.

Referring back to my experience.  I got a call from the defense attorney as the trial was approaching-I'd learned about the case from the news like everyone else and had no ongoing contact with anyone.  I called my lawyer, not a defense attorney, who put me in touch with someone in her firm who did defense work.  His advice after hearing what I thought was probably the angle that my testimony would explore?  Talk to the defense, tell them the truth as you remember it, if they ask for an opinion, give it.  And, if they want to use you as a witness; show up and answer the questions.  There is no point in trying to avoid being interviewed or testifying; whether you like it or not.  So just do it,

After I spoke to the defendant's lawyer and he told me what would happen if I refused to testify; my lawyer said, 'go to court and tell the truth.'  He also happened to be friends with the prosecutor on this particular case and had him call me.  The prosecutor already knew about me and what the defense was going to claim; he told me not to give him any information because he didn't need it and he might or might not cross examine me, but don't worry about it.  He also told me 'the case is a slam dunk and this a**hole is going to jail'.  He was right.

I'm thinking they tried to serve JB the summons once, while he was out of town and they've got plenty of time to serve him before the trial and, eventually, he will be home and accept service.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rootbeer

[sue450]

12 hours ago, Boston said:

Raising hand - I made gum wrapper chains when i was at daycamp WAY back in the 70s.

I made them (not at camp though) and speaking of gum wrapper chains   

32,555.68 m

The longest gum wrapper chain is 32,555.68 m (106,810 ft), and was achieved by Gary Duschl (USA) in Virginia Beach. Virginia, USA, on 10 January 2020. Gary has been constructing his gum wrapper chain since 1965.Jan 10, 2020

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Yep, Josh confessed to Jim Bob; he's the link they can use to bring Josh' prior acts into the current situation.  JB has willingly relayed this information in multiple venues including police reports and on national TV.  There is no way to walk it back and claim it didn't happen.  

And he confessed more than once, didn’t he?

14 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I've been through jury selection a bunch of times, both in federal court and in our local court. And it's never gone nearly that slowly in either one......But I have a feeling the efficiency varies a lot from court to court and even judge to judge.  

I served on a jury about 3 years ago. Jury selection only took one day.

[sue450]

Just now, Cinnabon said:

And he confessed more than once, didn’t he?

he confessed to his dad he confessed  to the church elders. he confessed to jim bobs cop friend who gave  josh a "stern talk"  and that cop is now serving a life sentence for child porn

[Rootbeer]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

And he confessed more than once, didn’t he?

I served on a jury about 3 years ago. Jury selection only took one day.

Supposedly, Josh confessed after each individual incident; so, yeah, he told his father on at least 4 occasions that he had assaulted young girls.

ETA:  He confessed to touching Jill and Jessa first; I don't recall if he said it happened on two different occasions or both on the same night.  The laundry room incident, assault on the 5 year old and on the babysitter all happened later and at different times and Josh supposedly confessed after each one.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rootbeer

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

Yeah. If Jim Bob gets on the stand, I think he essentially has five options:

1. Say nothing, and risk getting found in contempt of court.

2. Claim that he doesn't remember, which I think a jury will find hard to believe.

3. Deny that Josh confessed to anything, and risk getting impeached in court and facing perjury charges. 

4. Try to downplay this again, which did not go well with most people last time, and may not go well with a jury this time.

5. Testify to the confession, helping send his own son to jail.

Since these are all bad options for him, I would not be surprised to see him continue to try to evade the subpoena. Which comes with its own risks.

On another note, I admit I'm kinda wondering if any of the Duggarlings have announcements to make right now (pregnancy/engagement/wedding date/new hair dryer/new hamburger wait that's just Jeremy) and if so, if any of them are going to tell Jim Bob, yeah....you know, I think I'll wait until January to announce this. After the trial, you know? Sure, sure, this announcement could be a distraction from the trial, but....I think I'll wait!

Has anyone told them they are no longer on tv? 🤣 fewer and fewer people care about any of their mindless announcements. And I thought JB just wanted the truth to come out?

56 minutes ago, dariafan said:

I picture jb acting like the doofus son form lularich.  The one who at the deposition kept saying he couldn’t recall …

He is a straight up coward.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

51 minutes ago, dariafan said:

I picture jb acting like the doofus son form lularich.  The one who at the deposition kept saying he couldn’t recall …

That fool and his wife claimed they couldn’t even remember the address of their longtime business. 

[Cinnabon]

7 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Supposedly, Josh confessed after each individual incident; so, yeah, he told his father on at least 4 occasions that he had assaulted young girls.

This is what I remember.

[sue450]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

This is what I remember.

josh confessed to his dad, he confessed on the stage to the church elders, he confessed to jim bobs  officer friend who gave josh a STERN talk ( and this cop is serving a life sentence for chid porn)

[CandyCaneTree]

14 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

 🤣  And I thought JB just wanted the truth to come out?

 

The truth according to Jim Blob.

[drafan]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

Yeah. If Jim Bob gets on the stand, I think he essentially has five options:

#6  Act like a backwoods goober who has no contact with the outside world. They should stick Mullet on the stand...she can pull the sweet, innocent, baby-voiced act like it's nobody's business. Notice I said "act".

 

3 hours ago, merylinkid said:

None of the sisters who are still in JB's control will be good witnesses.   While Jill may want see her siblings and her nieces and nephews again someday, she is probably the best witness.   She's had therapy, so she is in a better place to tell them that JB controlled the whole family, there was no way she could speak up when it happened or later when it came out.  

Never going to happen. Jill essentially had a gun to her head during the Meghan Kelly debacle. She would have to move far, far away and never go back.

 

31 minutes ago, sue450 said:

32,555.68 m

The longest gum wrapper chain is 32,555.68 m (106,810 ft), and was achieved by Gary Duschl (USA) in Virginia Beach. Virginia, USA, on 10 January 2020. Gary has been constructing his gum wrapper chain since 1965.Jan 10, 2020

This may become Joshley's new hobby.

[CalicoKitty]

Is there any possibility that there is a financial aspect to this case, at all?  Like maybe tracing where the money came from that was used to pay for the pictures and videos?  In my dream world, maybe the money was moved from JB's accounts??  (I really need to stop reading mystery books.)

[beckie]

Re: the baby's name. Is it possible that Anna never knew about the website? Or that maybe she knew, but didn't want the details, helping her perpetual state of denial? If she didn't know the name of the website, it's possible she didn't name Madyson after it. 

 

[Cinnabon]

4 minutes ago, beckie said:

Re: the baby's name. Is it possible that Anna never knew about the website? Or that maybe she knew, but didn't want the details, helping her perpetual state of denial? If she didn't know the name of the website, it's possible she didn't name Madyson after it. 

 

I find it almost impossible to believe that she never heard it. 

[beckie]

1 minute ago, Cinnabon said:

I find it almost impossible to believe that she never heard it. 

I do, too, but for some reason that thought popped into my head that maybe, because of the deep denial that she appears to be in, didn't know or didn't want details. 

[lulu69]

Just now, Cinnabon said:

I find it almost impossible to believe that she never heard it. 

Me too. I agree with previous posters that Anna likely believes Madyson is a totally different name than Madison.