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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events


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1 minute ago, madpsych78 said:

One count is receipt, the other count is possession.

No manufacturing or publishing, which would indicate they had information he was producing any material.  

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1 minute ago, Future Cat Lady said:

If JB & Michelle knew about this, they still let their own minor children around him. That tells me that they’re not taking those accusations seriously.

And their other grandchildren. 

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10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh's statement following charges:

I apologize to my wife, kids and family. Satan came back and built a new fortress. Please allow us privacy during this trying time.

While we walk through fire

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1 minute ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

I wonder if Jinger saw the writing on the wall, realized there are people out there that look at pictures of children differently, and that’s why she stopped posting pictures of her children. To be sure, I am in no way implying she thought Josh had an unhealthy interest in her children, etc.

If there is any silver lining to this, it is that I really hope all the Duggars stop posting pictures of their kids on social media. Beyond it being a privacy violation, it is dangerous. 

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8 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

If JB & Michelle knew about this, they still let their own minor children around him. That tells me that they’re not taking those accusations seriously.

I know people who got sucked into fundie hell and the big takeway watching that hot mess from afar is how the men are never at fault.  Ever. 

Even if they believe that Josh did what he's accused of doing somehow the spin in their heads is that he's an innocent victim.  Usually they blame the woman (if it's an accusation of rape or marital infidelity), not sure who they will blame in this case but I'm sure they will find someone to blame other than Josh.  

Edited by WinnieWinkle
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I wonder if Anna's brother won't try to petition for temporary emergency custody of the m&ms. I don't know anything about American law, but I can't imagine her brother will just sit by and do nothing. Especially with the history of Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar not doing anything with Josh's previous behaviour. 

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1 minute ago, HighHopes said:

I wonder if Anna's brother won't try to petition for temporary emergency custody of the m&ms. I don't know anything about American law, but I can't imagine her brother will just sit by and do nothing. Especially with the history of Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar not doing anything with Josh's previous behaviour. 

Josh is in jail until his bail hearing.  He very well could be in jail until his trial.  It all depends on the amount of his bail and how deep the Duggars's pockets are.  They may have to choose between bailing Josh out and paying for his legal representation.  It happens to many across the country every day.  The kids can be safe for awhile.

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20 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Maybe it’s not fair that the rest of the Duggars are “punished” for Josh’s (alleged) crimes by having their TV show and influencer gigs cancelled, but that’s how it goes, especially when the entire narrative is that they are a wholesome Christian family whose claim to fame is having lots of kids. If the charges were white collar, it wouldn’t be as big of a deal. But the nature of the charges and the whole Duggar image are diametrically opposed. 

Plus, JB and M -- who in my opinion were a strong contributing cause to this by the way they treated Josh and treated their daughters and the other girl when this happened...and by the crap they preach about sex issues and gender roles in general -- have been all over the current show for a long time.

And in their minds, I'm sure both shows have  always been about them being role models. Any show that goes within a million miles of being role models should definitely be off the air after this. 

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Just now, HighHopes said:

I wonder if Anna's brother won't try to petition for temporary emergency custody of the m&ms. I don't know anything about American law, but I can't imagine her brother will just sit by and do nothing. Especially with the history of Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar not doing anything with Josh's previous behaviour. 

The bar for that type of action is high, as it should be.  The right of parents to parent their children is one of the most fundamental rights we have as humans.  I can't think of anything I would fight harder to protect.

I am absolutely not advocating that a parent's rights are absolute without exception.   I participate in and advocate for the removal of children from their parents' custody on a regular basis, including the termination of parental rights in many cases.   At this point there is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that Anna knowingly ignored risk to her children.

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I have a couple of questions.

If the dealership was raided in 2019, and this was the reason why, why has it taken over a year to lay charges? Would it really take that long to find evidence of porn and decide to lay charges?

And is there any chance this is only the beginning of charges against the Duggars? This doesn't seem to be the type of thing that would see the need for JB moving properties/businesses/whatever into various kids' names. That seem to me to be something you'd do to try to prevent assets being seized or something.

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2 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

Yeah, I don’t see the show remaining on the air after this, no matter the actual outcome of the trial. 

This is going to be one expensive case to fight.  Could bring down the whole kit and caboodle.  I think maybe Jinger and Jill could do something later on their own but the rest of the family is effed.  

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We don't know what triggered the original raid in 2019, do we?

There was obviously suspicion of some crime being committed, whether it was the CP or something else (financial/taxes, etc). 

While the current charges are terrible enough, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if additional charges were brought. 

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Just now, christine falls said:

We don't know what triggered the original raid in 2019, do we?

There was obviously suspicion of some crime being committed, whether it was the CP or something else (financial/taxes, etc). 

While the current charges are terrible enough, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if additional charges were brought. 

Agreed. I think this is just the beginning. 

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1 minute ago, Pingaponga said:

I have a couple of questions.

If the dealership was raided in 2019, and this was the reason why, why has it taken over a year to lay charges? Would it really take that long to find evidence of porn and decide to lay charges?

And is there any chance this is only the beginning of charges against the Duggars? This doesn't seem to be the type of thing that would see the need for JB moving properties/businesses/whatever into various kids' names. That seem to me to be something you'd do to try to prevent assets being seized or something.

These kinds of charges frequently are very long-range.   I would not be surprised if they had enough to charge Josh before the raid via a sting operation he walked into or if he was caught as the result of another perp being caught.   They may have been investigating the computers they seized for possible additional charges against Josh, as well as attempting to chase additional rabbits down holes -- ultimately hoping to find as many perpetrators who are directly abusing the children to produce the material and stopping that ongoing abuse.

As far as the number of charges and how it correlates to the number of images I'm not familiar with the federal process.   At the state level here it's not necessarily each image resulting in a separate charge, it functions the same way many other crimes are prosecuted, with some offenses being "bundled" in a single charge because they are considered as components of the same criminal transaction.  

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2 minutes ago, christine falls said:

We don't know what triggered the original raid in 2019, do we?

There was obviously suspicion of some crime being committed, whether it was the CP or something else (financial/taxes, etc). 

While the current charges are terrible enough, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if additional charges were brought. 

Maybe they were investigating someone else and Josh had contact with that person. They were probably other people arrested during this investigation. I think that’s how they usually catch those guys.

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3 minutes ago, Crochetlady said:

The only ones who deserve it are Mooch and Boob. They knew what he was, and did nothing. 

I wish they were going to jail with him.  As a parent they disgust me.  They did not protect their children.  

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So being off at court myself this morning (for work not personally), I am just now catching up to the Duggar charges. Has anyone seen a criminal complaint/criminal information -- the charging document that lays out the exact charges? It could be under seal (as in not publicaly visible) since this involves a child related issue. Usually way more informative to read the court document than news media.

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11 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Back in 2015 Jim Bob and Michelle tried to spin it as a teenage boy being "curious" and that "it happens in a lot of families".

 I remember that while no one excused his behaviour, a lot of people wondered if not being able to date or have a normal teenage experience was in part to blame. 

But these new revelations pretty much show that he knew what he was doing back then.  He is a pedophile.  And I hope his parents burn in hell for putting the blame on his victims and not taking appropriate action.

I was one of the people who thought his warped upbringing was part of the problem, and wasn’t ready to label him a pedophile but rather an opportunist. I was wrong. 

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1 minute ago, cereality said:

So being off at court myself this morning (for work not personally), I am just now catching up to the Duggar charges. Has anyone seen a criminal complaint/criminal information -- the charging document that lays out the exact charges? It could be under seal (as in not publicaly visible) since this involves a child related issue. Usually way more informative to read the court document than news media.

Its in this thread somewhere, although @Zella might still have the link.

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2 minutes ago, cereality said:

So being off at court myself this morning (for work not personally), I am just now catching up to the Duggar charges. Has anyone seen a criminal complaint/criminal information -- the charging document that lays out the exact charges? It could be under seal (as in not publicaly visible) since this involves a child related issue. Usually way more informative to read the court document than news media.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/northwest-arkansas-news/joshua-duggar-formally-charged-remains-jailed-until-may-5/

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2 minutes ago, cereality said:

So being off at court myself this morning (for work not personally), I am just now catching up to the Duggar charges. Has anyone seen a criminal complaint/criminal information -- the charging document that lays out the exact charges? It could be under seal (as in not publicaly visible) since this involves a child related issue. Usually way more informative to read the court document than news media.

The indictment is here 

 

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3 minutes ago, cereality said:

So being off at court myself this morning (for work not personally), I am just now catching up to the Duggar charges. Has anyone seen a criminal complaint/criminal information -- the charging document that lays out the exact charges? It could be under seal (as in not publicaly visible) since this involves a child related issue. Usually way more informative to read the court document than news media.

Here you go: It's online here. Short and (not so) sweet. Two counts.

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56 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Any adult with more than three functioning gray cells who would actually say something so repugnant deserves to experience what the kids in those images have been subjected to.  Kids are trafficked, drugged, abused and even murdered every day around the world to produce those images.

As far as those baying for Anna's children to be removed from her, remember at the end of the day it's not about vengeance and punishment, it's about the best interest of the kids.  They've lost their dad.   Sure, he's a total load, but I doubt that was their perspective.   Being ripped from their mom on the assumption she was complicit or at the very least she should have known doesn't necessarily result in a great outcome for the kids.   As much as I despise the general lifestyle of that cult, I don't know that traumatizing the kids achieves anything but traumatized kids, which is not a win for anyone.  

I would agree if Anna didn't know who she married.  She knew his history, she knew about the raid and she knew he was getting arrested if reports are true the family was expecting it.  She stayed.  She doersn't have the good sense needed to keep kids safe.

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For Josh, I do think growing up in an environment where sex was both flaunted and terribly stigmatized created some issues--and probably does for all of them in just that would be a weird mindfuck to deal with. 

But the reason I was reluctant to just assume his molestations were crimes of opportunity was the fact his attacks on his sisters got increasingly brazen and severe and also the ages of the victims got younger and younger. That's always seemed very damning to me. And I think deep down the Duggars know that because they always lied in public statements to avoid addressing the latter instances. 

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Even local law enforcement is running online stings for child pornography and child trafficking on a regular basis.   A lot of this work is done via combined efforts of individual municipal departments in conjunction with several other departments in their area, along with federal agents in their area many times as well.   These units will set up fake personas looking to see what kind of predators show up, and they will troll known sites looking to see if they can identify any participants for the appropriate authorities to apprehend.   I do know from time to time I have seen listings mentioning things such as Interpol in the documents, but that's way beyond the type of things handled here so I'm really not familiar with that.  

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1 minute ago, Kbo said:

I can’t stop thinking about his expression in that mug shot. Not only is there no remorse, there’s no shame, either. How does a person grow up in that environment and have no shame upon being arrested for possessing sexually explicit images of children?   You know what I pray, JB and Michelle?  I pray they lock him up under the jail and throw away the key. 

He has no soul. 

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