Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[3 is enough]

But, but- THE FANS!  He had to apologize to HIS FANS! ;P  Oh yeah, and his wife too...

 

The apology came across as a desperate attempt to save the Duggar brand.  Period.

[Fuzzysox]

I was actually shocked when he admitted the AM thing AND the porn AND the cheating in his public statement. He could have gone with the "I was hacked!" defense and most of the low-information leg-humpers would have bought it.

Somebody decided to go with the Swaggart/Jim Bakker strategy and this was one very, very bad idea. It's one thing to pull out the "I have SINNED!" tears with loyal wifey by his side when it's the first scandal. For the second in three months? Very wrong move.

It does make me wonder who's running the circus.

THIS!! 

[HundFan]

I have worked in PR for years - longer than I care to think about and can't see one good thing that comes from Josh's public announcements. His need for attention has yet again created a situation for his wife and siblings. 

 

 A more palatable solution would have been for him (and Anna, if she continues to stick with him) to speak before a church group or one of those retreats that they often get paid to speak at around the country. 

 

I'm now convinced more than ever that Josh has elected to make his own statements to the media/public rather than relying on professionals. He's cocky enough to think that he can do it just as well as someone who does have crisis communication experience.  

I agree, but do we really think it was Josh's idea to issue this latest public mea culpa? (I doubt that boy can conjugate "to be" without help.)  I have no doubt it was Boob driving the "we can still fix this with the right statement" train. JB's all about the $brand$, visitation for which will be held on an ongoing basis at Duggar Studios Chapel, aka the TTH. In lieu of flowers or in memoriam donations to real charities, the family requests cash (large denominations only please) for Jim Bob to use as he sees fit. 

[sometimesy]

So JB is looking for a friendly media outlet to let him control the story hunh? No surprise, but why isn't JOSH doing the negotiating? WTF does this have to do with JB?

[wirebitersm]

Oh my God, is that what they really believe? This has made me so angry!!

 

Of all the twisted things I've heard about this religion, this takes the biscuit, how can any woman follow a religion that preaches this crap.

 

 

I had this discussion with someone ages ago and their way of not making it look so bad was to claim it wasn't about the birth of a girl being more dirty, it was even more super special. See women are this holy being and when they give birth, they lose a bit of that  holiness for a time. She loses less holiness giving birth to a boy than to a girl(because of her eventual super special holy child bearing powers). So it will take her longer to recharge her holiness.  I looked it up to see if there was a better way to explain it than from what I remember and this is what I came up with.

[Satchels of gold]

So JB is looking for a friendly media outlet to let him control the story hunh? No surprise, but why isn't JOSH doing the negotiating? WTF does this have to do with JB?

Because he who has the money has the power, a lesson all the wives learn in time. Ive noticed in the media on on these boards no one treats the adult children like they are full fledged adults...because they aren't. JB has crippled all of his children with antiquated views of the world, subpar educations and no job skills. I honestly beleive it is all orchestrated so that no one outdoes JB. His children will never leave because they can't. As far them all having a compound and reproducing, I feel Darwin will take care of that.

[barbedwire]

That is a good point several of you have mentioned about Pa Keller:  did he make Josh, like he did Davey, promised that Anna was in charge of his internet usage?  Of course she couldn't do that at his job.  I hope Pa Keller gave Josh a lecture about his treatment of his girl, but then again when you "transfer authority" at the marriage ceremony, there might be nothing you can say.  Ugh.  What a mess.

[Bella]

Because he who has the money has the power, a lesson all the wives learn in time. I've noticed in the media on on these boards no one treats the adult children like they are full fledged adults...because they aren't. JB has crippled all of his children with antiquated views of the world, subpar educations and no job skills. I honestly believe it is all orchestrated so that no one outdoes JB. His children will never leave because they can't. As far them all having a compound and reproducing, I feel Darwin will take care of that.

 

I would agree with this except that I don't think JB can think deeply enough to figure this out. I believe his thought process is much simpler, maybe even primitive: "I'm gonna have my boys and my girls' boys here with me and I'll keep them busy working for me and they don't need to leave and they certainly don't need to be those snobs that go off to college and get crazy ideas and run off and live far away and work for other people. And they'll have kids and their kids'll have kids and as long as I don't run out of hairspray, it'll all be good and I'll be in charge of all these wonderful little Duggars."

 

It's essentially what you're saying, only with less contemplation. Not that I would ever accuse JimBoob of thinking.

[Granny58]

The sex does still need to be, if only at the end, p in v though right? The Smuggars unwisely took an oath at their wedding promising to God that they would "let God choose" the size of their family, I'd imagine sex that circumvents that is verboten.

I'm not sure....I thinking that allowing God to choose only means when having the type of sex that can lead to children.  As for the other varieties, that would fall under the sodomy category and I would bet that is off limits for a fundamentalist couple - though of course who knows what happens in privacy.  

[barbedwire]

I just don't understand how people who claim they don't watch t.v. (except for Andy Griffith and maybe the Bates show) and limit their internet usage, think they can do publicity and PR.

[Aja]

Same people who think an eight year-old in flip flops can build a house.

[Quilt Fairy]

On one of the links posted in the last week (can't remember which one) some ex-Fundy sadly suggested that, given their culture, Josh might have a future career on the "I have sinned!" Evangelical circuit. Apparently this is a Thing.

[Loves2Dance]

It means manning up, doing anything Anna says, changing his behavior, getting help. Thanking his God for what he's been given. He made his choices, he needs to live up to them. It ain't that hard.

If you are guaranteeing, I am first in line for my money back.

It's just not that easy. I won't diagnose Josh because I don't know him, but I don't think he's just a douche---at this point, I think there is addiction issues. If it were as easy as you say, he would have already done it---he can't and he won't. Anna is in for a lifetime of hurt because Josh won't get help thanks to his religion. You can't pray compulsive sexual behaviors away---you simply can't. 

[Julia]

I just don't understand how people who claim they don't watch t.v. (except for Andy Griffith and maybe the Bates show) and limit their internet usage, think they can do publicity and PR.

 

I can't imagine that they think the army of PR people, techs, directors, camera operators, ghostwriters and scenario designers who have been completely gatekeeping everything we know about them since they started to appear on TV had anything to do with their popularity. Why shouldn't they think they can do it? They think they have all along.

 

If it were as easy as you say, he would have already done it

 

Why? Every time he hasn't amended he's failed upwards and everyone tried to make him feel better about being the scum of the earth. When he lost his job, though, and became a scandal and a hissing in the secular world he wanted to belong to, that cheating account went away _fast_.

[JenCarroll]

WTF does this have to do with JB?

Everything is about Jim Bob. In the beginning, there was Jim Bob.

[frenchtoast]

The mods have enjoyed some Sweet Fellowship (not like that!) and we have all agreed that discussing Josh and his mention of porn addiction is permissible if the following guidelines are met:

• Talk about Josh and not addiction in general.
• Dismiss and doubt Josh's addiction, not addiction in general.

See the trend? Addiction is a real and terrible affliction that hurts not only those suffering from it, but their families and friends, too. In this case, knowing so little (and sometimes, waaaay too much) about Josh, compulsion is probably the better term to describe his behavior. We know this group will probably have many personal stories, just as we did when the molestation scandal hit. Please continue to be the kind, respectful and thoughtful posters towards each other. You guys have been amazing and it really makes us proud, as corny as that sounds.

[ZoloftBlob]

The sister incidents happened in 2002-2003. The very first 14 children special aired in 2004, and he didn't get the FRC job until 2013. His moral high horse lectures did coincide with his active Ashley Madison-ing.

 

His job with FRC and his family were publically commenting that gays can't trusted to not molest children. Since Josh did molest his sisters for two years before being stopped, and since Josh then chose to help his job and family in insisting that its really the gays who molest children, not straight christian men like himself, yes, he owes all the people he publically accused of the sick crime he was guilty of an apology. He also was insisting his straight marriage was sacred... he needs to apologize to everyone he lied to as he damn well knew every time he said that that he was cheating on his wife.

 

He held himself up as better - now he has to pay the piper and if it is too hard to make a public apology then he's a coward along with a cheater, a liar, and a molester

[becca3891]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the only thing I find striking about Jim Bob and Josh being less-than-completely toned is that it's one more prejudice they deploy against other people while not thinking it applies to them. It's a little hard to accept that those two come from a family where already strikingly slim adolescent girls are in regimented diet programs for weight control.

And yes, for the record, they're both still less out of shape than I am.

Yes, they do have a horrible double standard going on. Jana was shipped off to Weight Watchers when she was never actually overweight, probably just average as opposed to painfully thin, whereas the only time Jim Bob and Josh paid lip service to getting in shape was for a producer-driven reality show plot. I have no issue with their sizes, but yes, great point, it is hypocrisy. And all based on Gothard's fetish-like body standards for women.

[kokapetl]

I went and watched the weight watchers episode again. It's from 2009, and Jana had been a member for a few years already!. Maybe it works, Jana's weight has been pretty consistent. The actual weight loss focus in the episode was all about JimBob, plus Michelle tries to lose weight, but it turns out she was pregnant with miracle Josie.

[BitterApple]

I think the argument is over the double standard. It's okay for Gothard men to stuff their faces with fast food every day, but women are expected to maintain teenaged figures when they're 35 and have pumped out seven kids. Talk about setting someone up to fail.

[Sew Sumi]

Since Josh is his own headship (ugh, that term), why would he have to submit to a chaperone, giving up his computers, etc? On whose authority? Threat of excommunication from the pretend church? I don't get it.

Anna 's sister, Priscilla, had vows to keep her husband accountable for his Internet usage. Fireproofing the marriage from porn could have been in Smuganna's vows since they had seen a screening of the movie, but again, this goes back to just how faithful Josh really wanted to be. He wanted to get laid; the rest was lip service.

[Ilovemylabs]

The Smuggars sexual and reproductive rules are based in Gothardism not the Bible so whatever rules they choose are those of their own making. They claim these to be Biblical requirements but they aren't. Just like I said about divorce in another post... they are circling Anna reminding her that the Bible requires that she stay married to Josh no matter what, when in reality the Bible specifically says sexual immorality is an acceptable reason for divorce. But Gothard is anti-woman, anti-divorce so in their minds that's what matters.  It's just another example that they are more about their Gothard philosophy and their image than what is truly Biblical.

Exactly!  The 40 day 80 day restriction does no longer seem to be in practice by religious Jews (even the Hasidic) if the following article is to be believed.  However, observant Jews apparently still practice niddah (a period of separation when a woman is menstruating and immediately thereafter).  Please refer to this site for details.  Gothardism sexual practices are quite dissimilar from Old Testament Jewish practices!     http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm

Edited August 25, 2015 by Ilovemylabs

[Churchhoney]

Yes. I don't think this can be overemphasized. Both sets of parents are humiliated in a major way here, within the Gothard community and beyond. Set apart even in their own "set-apart" world. And so close on the heels of Molester Gate. I'd love to know if Boob and Me-chelle have left the compound since the news became public. Since they know only such a small set of people, where could they go? Do any of their many vehicles have those special black-tinted Presidential motorcade windows? If not, I guess Me-chelle has been assigning someone to a daily Starbucks run.

 

I'm really wondering about that Gothard mothers-and-daughters conference in Indiana that Michelle, Jinger and Jana were all scheduled to speak at. It ran from Wednesday through Saturday of last week. I can't imagine that they went. But then by the time all this came down, it may have actually been under way. They wouldn't have had much, if any, notice to cancel, I would think.

[luna70]

Has anyone seen Daniel Keller's FB entries? I saw an article on Slate.com : 'Josh Duggar’s Brother-in-Law Speaks Out Against Him', & it was Anna's brother- Daniel Kelly (?)

 

He is (supposedly) -is Extremely P*SSED! & Has offered/WANTS Anna & the kids to move in w/him.

 

Their parents? Not nice. Says they worry too much about what 'others' think of them, & They do not want Anna to leave Prince Charming. Too bad they don't 'google', etc. .if they did, ( Caring about 'other's opinions') Anna would be home with them  before the end of the day!

 

IF-this is really her brother-he feels (and he sounds religious BTW) that Josh is a 'Repeat Offender' & liar  & he is NOT going to change his ways! (but hasn't convinced Anna of this...yet..)

[poopchute]

Why does anyone need to keep a grown adult man accountable for his internet usage? Legit asking, not mocking. Do they really believe a man cannot resist looking at porn unless his wife is monitoring his internet usage?

[CherryAmes]

I think it's just another way to hold the woman in a relationship accountable when the man screws up.  Nothing can ever be his fault even cruising for porn on the Internet.

[penguinnj]

Loving Daniel Keller- at least Anna is getting advice from some one outside of the bubble.  But this will make it harder for her to say she had no support in leaving dough boy when this happens again- AND it will.

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/689279/anna-duggar-s-brother-daniel-keller-bashes-josh-duggar-i-won-t-stop-trying-to-get-that-pig-out-of-our-family

[Wellfleet]

We knew a man who was obsessed with showing himself on the internet that it cost him his career (military) and the wive had still yet to leave. The guy was dumb enough to take pictures and post then while he was in uniform with his nametape on; then as he was in the process of being kicked out, went to the post's library to do it again. There is a difference between addiction and just being a douchebag. Josh clearly has an addiction; nothing is going to stop him but psychiatric help---which he won't get because Jesus. 

 

Anna can think whatever she wants, but psychology will be more than happy to tell her how all of this is going to play out. 

 

Wow. The photos were taken in uniform, with the nametapes still on - and visible? That is Dumb On An Epic Scale. And the last thing our military needs are nimrods this feeble. Good riddance, Perv.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Churchhoney]

Understood, and I don't disagree but the question was "why should he make any public apologies?". That's why. He misled the public and presented himself as morally upright. How many people did he shame while he was diddling his sisters and cheating on his wife?

 

I think this is why he should make public apologies. Unfortunately, what I've seen of the Duggars makes me wonder whether he isn't making public apologies instead because he is a tv stah and a hot celeb with a big following...and because Jim Bob and Michelle told him to get his ass into apologizing gear so they can all get their tv show back. ....

 

I hope that's wrong and that he's thinking about how he misled people about his own lack of ethical and moral standing to call everybody else out out on ethics and morals and how that's a disservice to his conservative followers and to voters generally, and so on. ... But I find it's really hard -- nearly impossible -- to actually think of stupid, smug, shallow, ignorant, selfish Josh Duggar, of the all-famewhoring-all-the-time Duggar clan, actually thinking in these terms at all. They think of their adoring celebrity-loving public and they think of [the] Jesus [of their imaginations]. But I just can't get my brain around a Duggar, and maybe even Josh in particular, thinking in terms of public and civic responsibility. I'd be surprised if thoughts and attitudes of that nature ever entered any of their heads. I hope that I'm wrong.

[Absolom]

The sex does still need to be, if only at the end, p in v though right? The Smuggars unwisely took an oath at their wedding promising to God that they would "let God choose" the size of their family, I'd imagine sex that circumvents that is verboten.

I'd say anything in Josh's wedding vows to now be a completely moot point. 

[Morgalisa]

 

Here's the link. Read it while you can -- Josh appears to have either forgotten about its existence or is stupid enough to think no one would link it with him. REALLY, REALLY NSFW! https://twitter.com/toughguyy11

 

I don't know if this is Josh's account or not, but one of his retweets is a lady called "Busty Anna."

 

Another Josh was busted today.  In addition to Snookie's husband, Josh, househusband from RHONY.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

Why does anyone need to keep a grown adult man accountable for his internet usage? Legit asking, not mocking. Do they really believe a man cannot resist looking at porn unless his wife is monitoring his internet usage?

In their warped culture, men are never responsible for their actions.

[Churchhoney]

I just don't understand how people who claim they don't watch t.v. (except for Andy Griffith and maybe the Bates show) and limit their internet usage, think they can do publicity and PR.

 

They think that a bunch of 10-year-olds wearing flip flops and carrying brand-new power tools can build a steel-framed house that'll hold 18 people and counting.

[CofCinci]

Why does anyone need to keep a grown adult man accountable for his internet usage? Legit asking, not mocking. Do they really believe a man cannot resist looking at porn unless his wife is monitoring his internet usage?

And, what's wrong with adults looking at porn anywAys?

[ariel]

Why does anyone need to keep a grown adult man accountable for his internet usage? Legit asking, not mocking. Do they really believe a man cannot resist looking at porn unless his wife is monitoring his internet usage?

Sadly, yes

[Wellfleet]

He was a spokesperson for a conservative group. He's also a public figure due to his being on a tv show and he has used both of those positions to push an agenda of intolerance in the name of his religion. People who want to stand up on the soap box publically and say others are wrong per God need to remember the whole glass houses thing. Josh has presented himself as a defender of family values. He molested a five year old and cheated on his wife as he built his career. Yes, as much as he accepted the fawning praise of the Christian right publically, he does owe the people who believed his lies about his awesome family and how he was doing it all with God's guidance an apology.

 

Well-said. Josh doesn't owe his critics anything. We ended up being the people who had his number all along, even though we didn't quite know how. But he most certainly should be apologizing to all those who loved and supported him in the past. Those are the folks let down in this whole mess.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Liz Tudor]

Wow. The photos were taken in uniform, with the nametapes still on - and visible? That is Dumb On An Epic Scale. And the last thing our military needs are nimrods this feeble. Good riddance, Perv.

Oh, honey. Not to drift farther OT, but I know from experience as a 21-year military spouse that this kind of thing happens Every. Single. Day. in every branch of the service, across all the ranks, across all ages. People just think they'll never get caught and/or will be above it if they do. Yet others just keep on doing it, because, y'know, it's never gonna happen to THEM. Just like Joshie.

[SometimesBites]

I had this discussion with someone ages ago and their way of not making it look so bad was to claim it wasn't about the birth of a girl being more dirty, it was even more super special. See women are this holy being and when they give birth, they lose a bit of that  holiness for a time. She loses less holiness giving birth to a boy than to a girl(because of her eventual super special holy child bearing powers). So it will take her longer to recharge her holiness.  I looked it up to see if there was a better way to explain it than from what I remember and this is what I came up with.

It's all Bronze Age bullshit leftover thinking.

[GeeGolly]

Absolutely. There's no black and white to these things anyway. For me, the great thing about discussing these things with a lot of very bright people -- as happens here! -- is that we all bring different lenses from our own experiences and see different shades and aspects of what may be going on. Agreeing to disagree is the only way to go. (although hard sometimes, since most of us seem to have really strong feelings and opinions about all of this!)

Churchhoney, you are awesome, special and maybe a little surreal. But, no, really, you ROCK!!

[Julia]

Everything is about Jim Bob. In the beginning, there was Jim Bob.

 

Now Jim Bob was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

[Churchhoney]

Churchhoney, you are awesome, special and maybe a little surreal. But, no, really, you ROCK!!

Thanks!    I'm sure Jillly Muffin would agree that I'm surreal! I think she probably finds us all surreal!

Edited August 25, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Missy Vixen]

You would think. Just like you would think David Rodrigues could print pamphlets in his spare time as opposed to calling it a full time ministry and going begging to support it.

 

"Full-time ministry" means working a few hours a day and getting paid more than one ever dreamed, especially those who hit the big-time. Don't kid yourselves. The neighbor up the street from us had a "prison ministry". Things were great (donations wise) until the Great Recession, during which his wife had a perma-garage sale to keep things going. He's back at it now that things have improved financially for those who donate to keep these folks in business. I'm sure they do very well financially. And he was talking about attempting to get the state to underwrite his prison ministry as well. After all, faith-based is so much more effective. Allegedly.

 

It's not possible to support a super-sized family on whatever one could bring home from the factory or a typical 9-5 job. The Gothardites are all about couching their own inability to bring in enough cash to run their household via the same jobs most people work in Christianese -- in other words, THE LORD laid it on their heart to go work for the FRC, get a reality TV show, etcetera. Going to work five days a week in an anonymous cube is such a drag. Getting a ministry is where it's at!

[ariel]

Did the prison ministry (at the time) provide health insurance for the mega family that the well paying job would have?

[jschoolgirl]

The Duggarlings should be hoping that Boob lives a long, long time. Otherwise, Josh will be their headship.

Yuck.

[Blergh]

I think it needs to be said that, with Anna's bro publically bucking the familial party line and DISSING Josh's actions as well as offering help for her and the kids OUT of this mess, there does exist the tiny possibility that she may come to an 'unexpected' realization.  Since   her parents and in-laws prioritizations   have NOT been working out for her or her kids, she may want to consider that willful ignorance is NOT bliss and bite the bullet and start anew despite the immediate flak. That's not to say she's not under TREMENDOUS pressure by [almost] all sides to 'keep sweet' but it's  less likely she will do so than before with someone she knows actually defending and advocating for HER.

 

reason for edit : someone for somehow

Edited August 25, 2015 by Blergh

[Skittl1321]

Why does anyone need to keep a grown adult man accountable for his internet usage? Legit asking, not mocking. Do they really believe a man cannot resist looking at porn unless his wife is monitoring his internet usage?

To be fair, in Josh's case, that did seem to be true.

[Julia]

Someone I know (who is an evangelical flavor of Episcopalian) was her boss' secretary at a time when her boss was still married but (in his view and not that of his wife and mother) separated. They have two daughters out of college, and they still share an e-mail account, because that's what their church recommends for the avoidance of temptation.

 

Not too far from where they live is someone else I know who (despite her and her husband having remarkably little insight into the human condition, at least if it takes place somewhere other than the section of her lower colon their head is wedged in) teaches pre-Cana, and they do the same thing. 

 

I think it's more common than people believe.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Julia

[JoanArc]

http://www.etonline.com/news/170605_josh_duggar_wife_anna_stands_by_her_husband_after_infidelity_admission_couple_hiding_out_cabin/

 

 

Most of the Duggars even missed a Sunday service at Cross Church, where they regularly attend.

Pfft.

[mythoughtis]

I actually think the 40 days after birth for a boy and 80 if a girl is for this:

 

Someone in biblical times noticed  men were more likely to get a son after a daughter if they waited longer for sex. They wouldn't have understood why, but they could have observed it.  Therefore, they made up the rule.  Similar to the rule that says 'don't eat pork because it is unclean'.

In recent times, it's been proven that sperm containing the male gene swim slower and are more fragile than sperm containing the female gene. So, waiting may build up the supply of male sperm, increasing the likelihood of a son.  if you already a son, maybe they thought your swimmers were healthy enough.

Pork has since been proven to contain bad stuff if it is not cooked enough or not kept cold.

[GeeGolly]

http://www.etonline.com/news/170605_josh_duggar_wife_anna_stands_by_her_husband_after_infidelity_admission_couple_hiding_out_cabin/

 

Pfft.

I believe only Derick & Jill and maybe Amy too attend this church. The Duggars homechurch.