Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[PrincessSteel]

My mind keeps going back to that episode in which Ben and Jessa (and Jinger?) go to visit Josh in D.C., and Josh is weirdly competitive with Ben at the gym, and he's all "What are your intentions with my sister?" (paraphrasing)  At the time I just took it as another hackneyed "big bro looking out for his younger sister" plotline, but in light of the fact that he's possibly her molester??  NAUSEATING.

In light of the current shitstorm, just about any given minute of this show has heartbreaking subtext.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

this is where I'm confused about what triggered which in the timeline of the events this week - if you look at the request, it was as of 5/19, the judge signed off on it on the 21st. I didn't notice this story until I saw TMZ and Josh's apology and resignation from the FRC, when exactly did InTouch post the police report or when did they file the FOIA?

I don't know when they requested the report but you can see on the posted police report that the date in the upper left corner is 5/19/15, which I am assuming is when it was actually printed. I think inTouch posted it on Thursday.

Edited May 24, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[silverspoons]

After reading the few reactions we have gotten in print, it makes me worry Anna has no out even if she wanted one. The Duggars have always been all about their imagine and right now the most important person to play the Duggar game is Anna. Reguardless of what she is feeling or thinking we will only see Anna happy and standing by her man. I don't think they will make any planned public appearances but she will have to be aware at all times that she is the perfect happy wife and mother. I can't imagine being 7-8 months pregnant with 3 little kids let alone having to watch everything I did when I went to the grocery store. I can't imagine what the plane ride she took Friday was like? All eyes had to be on her and Josh and the kids.

 

After living in rural Utah and seeing many men get power that lack education (even our governor never went to college) , common sense , and qualifications because of religion. I guess it does not surprise me that Jim Bob a high school graduate that sold used cars and won a 2 year 12k a year job as a state rep now suddenly has gained so much power. Because of religious ties? having 19 kids? If anyone actually wants to watch this show again, try it with just sound. I did this a few times and Jim Bob has such a limited use of words and phrases week after week, yet he is so influential he can call in big favors in government and law enforcement?

[Sunnybobs]

Ok I really don't actually like the Seewalds and think their own adherence to the vision forum cult is as alarming as the Duggars Gothardism. Also Guinn's public sharing of the Huckabee message was in my opinion foolish and ill timed.

Having said that the post by Dad Seewald is (in the frame of fundamentalist Christianity in which they are all clearly working) not that bad - he calls Josh's actions "reprehensible" which is further than others so far, he gives the victims the right & dignity to remain unnamed and also reminds his readers that they are unnamed. He also is very very clear to victims that they are not to blame - way further than anyone else this close has got to stating this and I don't think he is condoning how Jb&M dealt with it but saying something quite similar to Walrusgirls excellent post above that nearly all families mess up these situations. So while I don't agree with lots of his post I actually think there are parts where he is showing some thought and solidarity to the victims.

(And it's taken me so long to type this I expect a 100 responses have just said this better above!)

[msblossom]

Therapy for someone who has been sexually abused does not HAVE to be about recalling details. Therapy would be about coping with the aftermath - nightmares, anxiety, depression, self-esteem issues. Talking through feelings of anger at the abuser and getting clarity about blame, guilt, forgiveness, trust. It's always more about expressing feelings than it is about re-living details.With these girls it would also be about reconciling family and religious views on sex and male/female roles, with their experiences.

Hmm, I wasn't implying that therapy had much to do with details of the abuse. I was referring to repressing and acknowledging the feelings of guilt and shame, isolation, depression, recurrent thoughts and nightmares, distrust of the opposite sex, anger toward parents/Josh, etc.

[JenCarroll]

Having said that the post by Dad Seewald is (in the frame of fundamentalist Christianity in which they are all clearly working) not that bad - he calls Josh's actions "reprehensible" which is further than others so far, he gives the victims the right & dignity to remain unnamed and also reminds his readers that they are unnamed. He also is very very clear to victims that they are not to blame - way further than anyone else this close has got to stating this and I don't think he is condoning how Jb&M dealt with it but saying something quite similar to Walrusgirls excellent post above that nearly all families mess up these situations. So while I don't agree with lots of his post I actually think there are parts where he is showing some thought and solidarity to the victims.

I have to agree, considering the framework they are all working within, this is better than I would have expected. I really think Guinn's post was appalling, inappropriately political, and unnecessary, but the fact is that some people are going to speak up (and some of us might be criticizing them if they hadn't). Pa Seewald goes to some lengths to say that it was in no way the fault of the victims. That's a thousand times better than the Gothard position, which is probably all she's hearing from her own parents.

[Quilt Fairy]

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Duggar-Family-Dropped-From-Philly-Block-Party-304808031.html

 

The Duggar family from TLC's "19 Kids and Counting" has been dropped from the TLC Summer Block Party coming to Philadelphia next weekend

 

.

[Lillybee]

Those poor girls

1. they are molested by their brother whom they are trained to look up to.

2. they are required to forgive him and I think apologize to him for defrauding him

3.They are required to live with him and sit across the table from him during dinner, bible time and homeschooling.

4.They were required to cook his meals, do his laundry and clean the toilets after he used them.

5. And they had to do all this while keeping sweet.

[Spencer Hastings]

4.They were required to cook his meals

Maybe THAT'S why he gained so much weight when he got married. He could finally eat a meal without having to worry about it being laced with cyanide, or at the very least, wads of spit from five very angry sisters. I wouldn't have blamed them one bit. Edited May 24, 2015 by Spencer Hastings

[KittyS]

Ugh! I hate how all of the fundies are lining up to support Josh. So basically you can commit any number of vile acts, but if you repent, you will be forgiven? How convenient! Josh doesn't strike me as the kind of person who has even an ounce of humility. If he had learned one bit from his "mistakes," he might have had the self awareness not to take a very public job preaching about family values. Then again, this is someone whose own father thinks it's a swell idea to put his whole family on camera not long after a major family crisis.

Honestly, reading the support for the Duggars on Facebook, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they ended up getting their show back. They're not going to learn, grow, or change from this.

[Darknight]

Anyone saw the episode that was suppose to happen May 28. A three part trip to Israel. Not anymore

[Darknight]

Ugh! I hate how all of the fundies are lining up to support Josh. So basically you can commit any number of vile acts, but if you repent, you will be forgiven? How convenient! Josh doesn't strike me as the kind of person who has even an ounce of humility. If he had learned one bit from his "mistakes," he might have had the self awareness not to take a very public job preaching about family values. Then again, this is someone whose own father thinks it's a swell idea to put his whole family on camera not long after a major family crisis.

Honestly, reading the support for the Duggars on Facebook, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they ended up getting their show back. They're not going to learn, grow, or change from this.

Here's the thing. If Josh and JimChelle are really remorseful and repented then why is it coming out now and not when the show first started? The duggars tried so hard to hide this and only speaking out now that they got caught. Why didn't tlc created an episode about what Josh did? Or see how the family cope with this? Maybe even a family or couple therapy session. But nope the hid it. Josh's or JimChelle or Anna's statements didn't seem remorseful. Josh only cares about Josh and the family brand.

[bluebonnet]

I agree with mynextmistake.  They didn't need to air these grievances.  However, they shouldn't have been on tv, and definitely shouldn't have been trying to preach hypocritical 'values'.  At the very least, Josh shouldn't have been given a platform.  The network also should have ceased all production as soon as the Oprah thing happened.  TLC should have investigated all of these molestation rumors swirling the camp before they continued to exploit children.  This wasn't like CPS was given a tip, they came in and found nothing and so TLC had no reason to investigate further.  There is a police report where the victims AND the parents discussed what happened, and this was in response to Harpo canceling an interview and forwarding an email to the appropriate persons.  Absolutely TLC knew what was going on and the reason why a major bout of publicity was abruptly canceled.  

[becca3891]

From the blog comment back in 2007, Jim Bon paraded Josh around the home-church to make him confess. Alice had all the other details correct, so I have no reason to doubt her. Josh also had to confess to the church elders, which is speculated to have included Pa Keller, Gil Bates, and of course Gothard.

Just to clarify, there is no unified, nationwide Gothard church. He is an author and speaker, not a minister. Most of his followers belong to various ultra conservative denominations throughout the country, often Independent Fundamental Baptists or home churches, such as the Duggars's home church that now meets in a storage facility. So the church elders would not include Pa Keller, Gil Bates or Gothard. Each of those men belongs to his own local church. I don't believe we know the names of any of the storage facility church members, although I think probably the Querys and Sierra's family are among them. But didn't the Query husband die?

[humbleopinion]

America was duped to believe this family's message of modesty in dress and actions, especially for the girls.

Turns out it was, in part, to thwart their eldest son from his disgusting incestous urges.

How can we let TLC know that to continue to support the Duggars and give them a platform is bad business for the cable network?

If the public is allowed to the Philly TLC party hopfully there will be signs/placards urging TLC to keep the Duggars off TV.

Will an ex-TLC official ever explain why they were so willing to showcase the Duggars when Oprah would touch them with a ten foot pole?

[NextIteration]

This is such a sad situation.  I have a masters in counseling but do not practice.  I have two close friends who are survivors and they've both had nightmares the past few nights.  I can only hope those girls get help some day.

 

This whole situation is major league triggering for me, I can't speak for other survivors.  The powerlessness of the girls in this situation is terrible, and the age of the smallest one at the time is heinous.  And this is after I've done years and years of trauma work (therapy).

 

I haven't followed what the Seewalds, Dillards, Jessa or Jill have said -- so if anyone could post, that would be great.

 

So Mike Seewald really thinks it's people who were eagerly awaiting the Duggar family's fall that are the cause of this?? How about the teenager who molested his sisters? And I love how he had to mention that this didn't happen bc Josh was repressed. After all if you're not repressed -- "Fan the flames of youthful lust and you end up with what we have: unprecedented numbers of unwed mothers, millions of abortions, rampant STDs, and the unraveling of the fabric of our whole society." I get it unwed mothers, abortions, and STDs are bad -- and yet somehow I consider than more positive than a brother touching a sister. I'd much rather that a guy get a girl pregnant and walk away -- leaving her either a single mom or with an abortion -- bc at least it's likely that when sex occurred (i) it wasn't between siblings; and (ii) it was consensual. Is it me or does Mike refuse to acknowledge the nastiness of this between brother and sisters??

 

The whole problem with all of that is that it is a lie.  If you look at national statistics, the places in the country where there are more of the belief systems that the Duggars embrace - along with the ignorance, the abstinence, the denial of female reproductive rights... that's where all the "bad stuff" like teenage STDs, teenage pregnancies and single mothers have the highest numbers statistically.  Also used to have way higher abortion statistics but that is probably changing in relation to all the limitations that have been placed on abortions in those states.

 

I don't know when they requested the report but you can see on the posted police report that the date in the upper left corner is 5/19/15, which I am assuming is when it was actually printed. I think inTouch posted it on Thursday.

 

Thanks Boogaloo!  I knew I was missing something - and still, it's like the two things happened concurrently, as in, perhaps the family was tipped off what was coming?  Or someone was aware that the request was being made for the expungement in anticipation of the 18th birthday and tipped off InTouch.  

 

The only reason I ever watched this show the little bit I did was to see first hand, slack jawed how freaking backwards and actually dangerous this whole "quiverfull" nonsense was.  I mean I can't even hate watch things like this to snark about it because it's scary to me that people believe these things and try to spread this stuff.  I can hate watch CPAC because it's inevitable, but the network of fools that make it possible are just mind boggling to me.

 

To me there wouldn't even need to have been an incestuous molestation to consider these children abused, the act of brainwashing them and using a rod on them alone is abuse.  Making them hide secrets and behave like robots in front of a camera after a family crisis is on a whole other level, adding in the Gothard training, there are no words.  And of course the State Trooper that was called in to give a stern speaking to Josh is now serving time for pedo-porn and Gothard himself appears to be a pedophile on some level (which is why he trains young females to be perfect victims for himself and his brethren...)

 

If only this would eject Hucksterbee from the clown car, but it won't because these holier than thou pious fools believe they are saving the country not destroying it.  Thank goodness that despite all of this the general movement of the US population is away from religion.  I'm sooo disappointed that Maher and Oliver are off this weekend but I don't think this will have died down by the time they get back.

 

eta:  I wrote TLC last night and followed up with Comcrap because this shit is still available OnDemand and I want it GONE.

Edited May 24, 2015 by NextIteration

[EtheltoTillie]

This. This has really been bugging me today. I can try to put aside my considerable cynicism/skepticism and, for the sake of argument, accept that Josh's punishment/renovation work/whatever actually worked and he repented and confessed. He might have completely reformed and became a perfectly respectable, upstanding hate-monger (oops, said I wouldn't be cynical, didn't I?). If his parents hadn't sold out to TLC, this story would never have broken and no one would have ever known. How could the Boob and Meechelle have agreed to put their children on tv knowing they had this massive skeleton in their closet that was bound to come out sooner or later and ruin everyones life? They can't have believed it would stay quiet forever.

This to me even explains Michelle's weird affect. Every word out of her mouth about purity is a lie, and yet she has to repeat it week after week. No wonder she always looks and sounds wacky, with the strain of covering up.

[andromeda331]

I do agree with above the girls shouldn't feel like speaking up if they really don't want to. I mean they really don't want to and not their parents telling them what they want. But I honestly, don't feel sorry for Josh one bit. If he had gotten real counseling, help, punishment or something, then maybe. If he didn't spend the next decade being smug and superior to everyone around him. If he was sprouting all the purity and modesty. If he wasn't sprout hate towards gays and the "danger" they presented. If he didn't complain about all the stuff the girls got. If he wasn't competitive with Derrick and Ben. If he didn't call Jill a snitch. If he had behaved in anyway different or sorry, then I might feel some sympathy. But he didn't. How nice that his life wasn't ruined by him committing a horrible act against his sisters. How nice for him that his victims for gave him and continued to cook and clean for him. How nice for his victims got to spend the next decade on tv pretending everything was perfect and great, and that he was the best brother ever.

[BitterApple]

Here's the thing. If Josh and JimChelle are really remorseful and repented then why is it coming out now and not when the show first started? The duggars tried so hard to hide this and only speaking out now that they got caught. Why didn't tlc created an episode about what Josh did? Or see how the family cope with this? Maybe even a family or couple therapy session. But nope the hid it. Josh's or JimChelle or Anna's statements didn't seem remorseful. Josh only cares about Josh and the family brand.

Why should they? If you had a daughter who was molested would you want to announce that to two million viewers? I know everyone is out for blood right now but the Duggars don't owe us anything. Forcing your kids to do some kind of group therapy session on national tv is just as bad as covering up the abuse in the first place, IMO.

[NextIteration]

Why should they? If you had a daughter who was molested would you want to announce that to two million viewers? I know everyone is out for blood right now but the Duggars don't owe us anything. Forcing your kids to do some kind of group therapy session on national tv is just as bad as covering up the abuse in the first place, IMO.

 

I don't think they should.  But, I also think it's heinous to throw cameras in said victims' faces and forcing them to behave like nothing happened and everything is wonderful.  Never mind robocalling about the "scary" transgendered folk that want to use the correctly gendered bathrooms implying that they are child molesters when you have one in your midst that you have elevated to a national level as a representative of the number one political group representing "conservative christian values".

 

But you're correct the "Duggars" don't owe the nation anything, though true Christians aren't judgmental hypocrites, imnsho.

Edited May 24, 2015 by NextIteration

[starfire]

humbleopinion, on 24 May 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

How can we let TLC know that to continue to support the Duggars and give them a platform is bad business for the cable network?

 

Someone upthread posted this email to contact TLC:  viewer_relations@discovery.com

 

There is also a "feedback" option on the lower righthand corner of this page where you can leave a comment about the show/network (and can do so anonymously) http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/

 

I did both.

 

P.S. There is also a "viewer relations" contact page: http://corporate.discovery.com/contact/viewer-relations/

Edited May 24, 2015 by starfire

[bencr]

So Michael Seewold writes, "There is blood in the water and the sharks are in a feeding frenzy. Finally, the Duggar family’s opponents have found what they have been eagerly waiting for: shocking revelations of scandal by Jim Bob and Michelle’s firstborn son, Josh."

 

Well no shit. When the Duggars claim  to hold the moral high ground and actively advocate to deny gay people their basic human rights based on their religious beliefs, you better believe that their opponents are going to pounce when the Duggars show their true colors. The irony here, of course, is that the Duggar family stumbled on the very issue with which they are most vocal and judgmental -- sexual mores. What's that they say about people who live in glass houses?

 

If it were not for the righteous hypocrisy of this clan on sexual matters, I'm not sure this whole thing would be nearly as big a story as it has become.

 

And BTW, Mr. Seewold, the "shocking revelations of scandal" are not just about the firstborn son, Josh. They are also about the community of adults who chose to try to sweep this event under the rug for their own benefit rather than for the benefit of the children affected.

[dorcastrilling]

I'm seeing Joseph and Isiah's times at Alert as being their choices now. Anything to get out of that house. They are also the two that have found other outs: away at school and early courtship. Joseph must have especially made his feelings known for JB to cough up the money and head off to "raise above his rearin'".

 

I sincerely hope Marjorie's family does not hold Josh against Josiah. I also hope those girls are not ostracized by friends in their fundie world. All those kids need rallying around, not shaming/shunning.

[BetyBee]

This whole story is very troubling.  Josh is a smug know-it-all.  We all know that.  I do have to say though, that even though I didn't grow up in a fundie family, I seriously doubt that my parents would have handled it much differently.  I don't think it's unusual to sweep sexual abuse under the rug and try to go on as if nothing happened.  I'm not saying that is the right thing to do. It absolutely is not, but I would bet that it's the typical family response. Any molested Duggar daughter who speaks out against Josh at this point will lose the support of her family, or at least of most of her family.  That would be a great loss to them and they are not likely to risk it.  It takes a lot of courage to speak out against a sibling. If the 4 molested sisters choose not to go there, that is their choice.  I hate that Josh has seemed to skate through his crime without punishment, but it does appear that he is facing consequences now with the loss of his job and the TLC gravy train. Perhaps he will learn some humility in time.  I hope so. 

 

I am surprised that Michael Seewald had such a reasonable blog post that did call Josh to task and did not blame the victims at all.  It gives me hope for Jessa to feel safe.  The ones I worry about most in all of this are Anna and her children.  She is truly trapped and probably doesn't have the support to strike out on her own.  I have no idea if Josh is likely to molest their children and I'm sure she doesn't either.  I hope not.  She is a loving mother and I hope she can protect them.  She thought she married into fundie royalty and now she is in the middle of a nightmare. 

 

What will happen to all of these people who are so used to showing off their modesty on camera?  What goes on when the cameras and the money stop?  They will likely go through the 5 stages of grief.  I hope that they come through it all right, maybe even stronger. 

[NJRach]

I always thought it was simple to have a predator/molester reported and dealt with. Until I reported someone. I had no idea of the issues that cropped up. This was a teenager who I always knew had power trip fetishes, like annoying people to the point of almost holding them hostage in fear. One day he crossed a line and  exposed himself to a few of his little sister's friends and tried to get them to touch him. One of which was my my son. My son ran and got my husband, who was in the next room.

 

What happened next? My husband went to see what was going on and the kid had run to the sofa and was lying there playing with his IPhone like nothing happened. We skipped telling the parents, as their previous reactions to his power trips were,"Oh, our little dear wouldn't hurt anyone." They'd even tell my son he was overreacting.

 

So I'd had enough and called Child Protective Services. They questioned the boy and his younger sister at their schools. And then the hell began. The parents circled the wagons around the monster. They emailed and sent me nasty letters. . I was in fear of running into them for a year, and afraid they'd show up in my driveway some dark night.

 

I also filed a police report. The police kept saying, "Well, no contact was made," and looked at me like I was an overreacting wacko. All I could think of was what was going to happen to the little sister. No one seemed concerned.

 

I got so fed up I wanted to recant the whole thing and forget it. I wonder if that is what is going on with the Duggar girls. When there is no overwhelming support, (like there would be if you had been the victim of cancer of an accident), it is a huge gray area. The more you push for justice, the more some will push back and make you doubt yourself. It has to be especially hard if you are still dependent and it's your parents not taking your side. The girls will probably get harrassed for ruining Josh's life as well as Anna and the kids if they pursue this.

 

I would never have realized all this if I hadn't been part of the process.

Edited May 24, 2015 by NJRach

[Patrizio]

I am inclined to let The Seewold's comments slide a little in light of the fact that if I were them, I would be beyond pissed off that those fools were in-laws now. I bet it seems like only yesterday that their son's wedding was breathlessly chronicled in that fundie friendly magazine, People!  They thought they were marrying into the fundie royal family-OOPS!  I remember reading about the J-slaves on TWOP years ago. I didn't even know that these allegations about the family have been around for years. As a lifelong Oprah admirer, it's good to know that at least some people took the correct steps in dealing with this crime.  I used to watch Duck Dynasty. I liked pretty much the whole family-even crusty old Phil. But, then all the gay hate speech came out and I was done. I had a pact with that family to entertain me, not remind me that there are folks out there that are consumed with hate for their fellow man.  Maybe TLC will keep them on the air, I have no way of knowing how soulless they are. But the ratings will dwindle, the advertisers will be inundated with negative feedback. Perhaps we will witness the entire network brought low by this family.

[roamyn]

And neither do the victims. If his sisters never forgave him then that is within in their right. However, because they are brought up in a religious environment that is all about child abuse, they are forced to "forgive" Josh.

I realize now why I hate this forgiveness racket so much: this is Josh's cross to bear, not theirs. The fundie concept of forgiveness shifts that burden over to the victim. How can poor little Joshy move on with his life if you do not forgive him? He said he was sorry. So now if you not forgive him, you're a bitch. BTW, child molesters should never be forgiven. Once that happens, then people start acting like nothing happened,

Absolutely disagree with this.

Some people cannot forgive the wrong done to them, and that is perfectly within their right.

I had something happen to me when I was 11, and aft telling, I was able to learn to forgive. If I didn't, I fear I may have ended up like my other relative who was also a victim: an alcoholic man jumper. That doesn't mean I learn to forget.

Many drug addicts can trace their use to trying to dull the pain, because they didn't get the help they needed - in whatever shape that is.

To make such a broad statement that any kind of molester should "never" be forgiven, doesn't take into account each one's needs to heal.

No one should ever be forced to forgive. And really, no 16ye old should be paraded around their church forced to state their crime was either. if the victims involved forgive Josh privately, and if they wanted to tell Josh they forgave him or not, that is their own business.

Edited May 24, 2015 by roamyn

[autumnh]

Wow....read this..it also addresses the issue of the "NIKE" code word...

 

Also, the last paragraph

 

"And this will probably not come as a surprise, but there's no mention of a code word the Duggar men use so the girls can drop their eyes when a shirtless hottie or guy in tight pants walks past. (Unless that's coming when eldest sons Josh, John-David, and Joseph write their own book.) A man's hormones are a cross for the whole family to bear, but a woman's appear to a solitary burden. And that's one thing about Growing Up Duggar that seems a little sad."

 

 

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/news/a21626/duggar-girls-book-quotes/

Edited May 24, 2015 by autumnh

[andromeda331]

So Michael Seewold writes, "There is blood in the water and the sharks are in a feeding frenzy. Finally, the Duggar family’s opponents have found what they have been eagerly waiting for: shocking revelations of scandal by Jim Bob and Michelle’s firstborn son, Josh."

 

 

I don't think any of their enemies were expecting to find out that Josh molested his sisters. Drinking a beer or

kissed or even had sex before marriage yes, not molesting his sisters. 

 

 Maybe he's being soft because of his daughter-in-law. But this is what gets me most about their defenders. They are acting as if what Josh was caught drinking a beer or reading Playboy Magazine as a teen. Not that he committed a horrible act. And many times.

Edited May 24, 2015 by andromeda331

[autumnh]

Also, since teachers are mandatory reporters shouldn't Michelle have reported it..you know since she was the "teacher" in the house?

[Chicklet]

 

If it were not for the righteous hypocrisy of this clan on sexual matters, I'm not sure this whole thing would be nearly as big a story as it has become.

I know it's futile, but if only the fundamentalists would understand that it's the HYPOCRISY we are all railing about. Yes the molestation was horrible, yes not contacting the authorities was awful but sadly happens every day, but we are angry that the JimBlobs have been trying portray GLTB people as monsters when all along it was their precious first miracle Josh, the good Christian, who was the one young women should fear.

[Oldernowiser]

I know it's futile, but if only the fundamentalists would understand that it's the HYPOCRISY we are all railing about. Yes the molestation was horrible, yes not contacting the authorities was awful but sadly happens every day, but we are angry that the JimBlobs have been trying portray GLTB people as monsters when all along it was their precious first miracle Josh, the good Christian, who was the one young women should fear.

THIS. Whether the victims choose to forgive Josh is their decision...hopefully. But the family has been raking in the cash for ten years trotting themselves around as holier than everyone, publicly condemning others, and claiming that their moral code makes for the ideal life, so everyone should be following it, when it was all an enormous, calculated, greedy lie.

Like almost everything, it was about the Benjamins. So STFU with the Bible bullshit.

[bencr]

 I don't think it's unusual to sweep sexual abuse under the rug and try to go on as if nothing happened.  I'm not saying that is the right thing to do. It absolutely is not, but I would bet that it's the typical family response. 

 

You may be right. I hope not. I think it's especially problematic to pretend that nothing happened when the predator and his victims are living in the same house. But even if it is true, aren't we allowed to hold the Duggar family to a higher set of standards than just us mere mortals? Isn't that what they've been preaching at us these many years?

[Chai]

I feel like I've been using my favorite perfume for years and have only just learned its made out of poop. 

 

I also know me complaining will not help one iota unless I make sure TLC hears me. I'm off to send another email. 

[Chicklet]

 

aren't we allowed to hold the Duggar family to a higher set of standards than just us mere mortals? Isn't that what they've been preaching at us these many years?

"We" (those of us with functional brains) are allowed to hold this family to higher set of standards since they claimed those standards loudly and proudly and tried to force their will on the populace. But the Duggars and other "godly" people (such as Ben Carson) started to believe their own bullshit and PR so any grounding they had was soon lost.

And really that old nugget about those who protest too much have something to hide is really true more than it's not. Think about all the anti-gay republicans who are so stridently nasty about gay people, and turn out to be in the closet themselves.

 

[WhineandCheez]

It's been reported both locally and nationally that one of the victims that is still a minor requested for the redacted report to be destroyed.

 

 Can a minor legally do this?  I can't imagine they would be legally allowed to, like they cannot enter into a contract.  I think it should read as "JimChelle requested that the redacted report be destroyed."

Edited May 24, 2015 by WhineandCheez

[NextIteration]

It's not unusual to sweep sexual abuse under the rug, trust me and others that have attested to the truth of that.  The problem comes with the sweeping though because it denies the survivors their emotions and trauma about the abuse and exacerbates the shame and trauma.  In this particular case it gets even worse because cameras were shoved in the survivors' faces and they were forced to perpetuate a lie, further burying their entitlement to emotions about the situation and possibly causing more trauma.

 

That's what is so incredibly frustrating for me anyways, when Michelle does things like robocalls accusing transgendered folks of being child molesters, there is simply no basis for the assertion and she's the one that has damaged children.  It just makes me fume. :(

[dmmetler]

Homeschoolers aren't mandatory reporters in most states because they're not considered teachers (there are a few exceptions where homeschoolers are considered unaccredited private schools). And in many of those cases, BOTH parents are considered faculty (we are registered as a private school, and both my husband and I are on the affidavit). So either neither parent fell under mandatory reporting laws, or both did.

I'm also not sure whether there is privilege when it comes to mandated reporting and your own children (as their is for spouses and criminal charges).

That's one reason why I'd actually be in favor of requiring homeschooled kids to have some regular meeting with an outside person who IS a mandatory reporter. For 99+% of homeschoolers, there would be no issue, but maybe, just maybe, it would help that <1%. Kids who go to a traditional school have at least the opportunity for abuse to be noticed and an outside adult separate from the family that they could talk to without their parents present. So do most homeschoolers-but I'd be willing to have an appointment a couple of times a year if it protects other kids.

[Emme]

I have a former friend who recently broke up with her boyfriend who was a child molester. He was 27 and on probation/house arrest when they met. She was 29 years old, "of the world" and this was most certainly not her first boyfriend or the first guy she had talked to. She knew what she was getting into and her friends/family all tried to talk some sense into her. She was an otherwise smart girl but she was so stupid about this guy. Because sometimes girls are stupid about guys, even in the most normal situation.

Compare this case with Anna. We have an 18-20 year old girl who has never been allowed to even speak to a boy before Josh appears. She has been taught that her goal in life is to find a husband but not a day before she turns 20. Her father has to approve of everyone that comes through the door. This semi-cute guy gives her attention, he's "famous", has some form of income and a roomy house waiting for her, and the people who are supposed to weed evil guys out and protect her approve of him. She likely has no idea what "touching" entails because unlike the rest of us, she didn't have friends/tv/parents/school/the internet to teach her. I'm not saying she was totally ignorant about this situation but I think that if my otherwise normal friend can get caught up in this situation because girls get stupid sometimes, then Anna most definitely deserves a little slack, if only for the fact that everyone had failed her up to that point. Her dad probably prayed about it and said it was okay for crying out loud. That was all the approval she needed. I can't be too mad at Anna for marrying him because she did what she knew to do at that point in her life.

Isn't Anna's father's story that he came to a life of ministry after making mistakes/bad choices when younger? I think I remember reading that on a Keller website. I have no idea the nature of his bad choices, but I don't think the Keller family will be quick to cast Josh out.

[photo fox]

I've never seen this show, but I've read the last twenty pages or so of this thread because of personal history. Everybody else has already stated a lot of my feelings on the matter, so I'll just add one thing for now.

That is, I'm really disappointed in Harpo's lack of action in 2006 and since. As I understand it - please correct me if I'm wrong - in 2006 they knew that something had happened in that house. So they canceled their Oprah appearance and alerted Arkansas authorities, exactly as they should.

But then, when nothing happened, they shrugged their shoulders and walked away? And stood by while the Duggars used their political clout to fight against equality for a group of people that Oprah and Harpo would claim to support? That's weak sauce.

I mean, kudos to them for doing as much as they did, but they could have done more, IMO.

[cooksdelight]

But then, when nothing happened, they shrugged their shoulders and walked away? And stood by while the Duggars used their political clout to fight against equality for a group of people that Oprah and Harpo would claim to support? That's weak sauce.

I mean, kudos to them for doing as much as they did, but they could have done more, IMO

I can't speak for Oprah, but she did all that she legally could do. Reported it to the authorties, and let the law take it's course. Only in this case, the family hushed it up. Had Oprah gone after them publicly, it could have been viewed as harassment or defamation. She's not the law.

[Aja]

Josh's public statement including 'I knew that if I didn't change the road I was on, I would ruin my life' tells us everything we need to know. I'm sure that's exactly how it was presented to him, too. "Now Josh, you are the oldest male child of our Jesus army and are therefore more important than anyone or anything, the godless liberals will attack you for being a true Christian, just don't do it!" I have no connection to anything like this so I have no idea how it works, but considering what went on under JB and J'ichelle's watch and considering there is still a hoard of minor children in their care, no investigation? Nothing? Is there really and truly no grounds for one? 

[Maizie131]

Here's a great article worth reading.  http://www.inquisitr.com/2114091/why-i-wont-forgive-and-forget-josh-duggar-or-jim-bob-and-michelle/

[alt0233]

I'm really disappointed in Harpo's lack of action in 2006 and since. As I understand it - please correct me if I'm wrong - in 2006 they knew that something had happened in that house. So they canceled their Oprah appearance and alerted Arkansas authorities, exactly as they should.

But then, when nothing happened, they shrugged their shoulders and walked away? And stood by while the Duggars used their political clout to fight against equality for a group of people that Oprah and Harpo would claim to support? That's weak sauce.

I mean, kudos to them for doing as much as they did, but they could have done more, IMO.

They got an email from a stranger saying that something had happened. There's only so much you can do based on that. I'd expect that Oprah is used to getting emails from strangers saying bad things about people that are or are supposed to be on her show. I'm guessing that Oprah is used to getting letters and emails saying bad things about her. Many (if not most) of those letters are probably not true - and she had no way of knowing if this one is or not. I don't blame her for not raising a ruckus about a letter that she had no idea if it was true or not - she handed it over to the authorities and let them handle it - if they found that there was nothing they could do, what else could she have done, exactly? Make a public spectacle based on one email from a woman she's never met before? Edited May 24, 2015 by alt0233

[Granny58]

Real question: I'm not a mother so it's easy to say what I would or wouldn't do. I see people saying what Michelle and Jim Bob should have done with Josh, but what would you all do in this situation? Obviously you get everyone help and professional counseling, but where does your son go from there? Does he continue to live with you? Do you send him elsewhere? When is he welcome in the family home again? What were Michelle and Jim Bob supposed to do with their son?

 

 

 

OK, I do have a teenage son, though we have NEVER encountered a problem like this.  And I, as a teenage girl, had teen brothers and would have been appalled by being fondled by one of them....so I'll try to piece together what I THINK I would do.   First and foremost, as a parent I would look at whatever way I may have contributed to the problem.  I think the glaring failure here is on the part of Jimbob and Michelle.  They continually flaunt their sexuality, smooching yet looking at their kids and saying "not for you!" and never missing an opportunity to have sex, yet did not allow their children a degree of normalcy in relations outside the family.  No unchaperoned dating, no hanging out in even mixed groups without an ever watchful eye spy making sure there was no physical contact.  I'm sure that self gratification was even frowned upon - even though completely normal.  So here's a newly hormonal teenage boy basically boxed in BUT with his moron parents bizarrely focused on making babies.  I remember how my hormone/arousal level was off the charts at 14...same (or worse?) for a boy.  So, again, parents most at fault here.  As for the kids, I would show support for all of them (even Josh).  I would listen and support my daughters' feelings, ask what they would wish as recompense.  And if they need to talk about it repeatedly to work through their feelings, fine.  I would have some penalty for Josh (not sure what) and also have LONG discussions with him about the situation.  I'm not sure if I would have gone to the police, it really would depend on the details.  But as a parent in a normal world my son would not be put in this "Flowers in the Attic" situation in the first place.  

[JenCarroll]

I've never seen this show, but I've read the last twenty pages or so of this thread because of personal history. Everybody else has already stated a lot of my feelings on the matter, so I'll just add one thing for now.

That is, I'm really disappointed in Harpo's lack of action in 2006 and since. As I understand it - please correct me if I'm wrong - in 2006 they knew that something had happened in that house. So they canceled their Oprah appearance and alerted Arkansas authorities, exactly as they should.

But then, when nothing happened, they shrugged their shoulders and walked away? And stood by while the Duggars used their political clout to fight against equality for a group of people that Oprah and Harpo would claim to support? That's weak sauce.

I mean, kudos to them for doing as much as they did, but they could have done more, IMO.

In 2006, Harpo received an allegation that something had happened. That's not actual knowledge. I imagine they get that kind of thing from time to time, and that some of those allegations are false. They turned the accusing letter over to the proper authorities, who did in fact begin an investigation. I don't know what else they're expected to do. They cancelled the appearance, and while some may assume the cancellation indicates that Harpo must have known these allegations were true, it's more likely that they decided it wasn't worth the risk. What kind of follow-up could Harpo do? The police are not allowed to disclose details of this kind of investigation involving minors; if they did follow up, the only information they might have been given was that the case was closed with no charges filed.

ETA: I see several people posted basically the same response while I was typing. Sorry to flood the thread! :-)

Edited May 24, 2015 by JenCarroll

[JoanArc]

Looks like May 26-29 there's an ATI conference in Nashville. The Duggars a featured speakers. I made screen grabs of the program flyer, in case they vanish. The Bateses and Wallers are going to be there too.

 

I'm rapidly losing faith in humanity. I'm sure they'll go and be welcomed with opened arms.

 

http://familyconferences.org/

[ZoloftBlob]

So Michael Seewold writes, "There is blood in the water and the sharks are in a feeding frenzy. Finally, the Duggar family’s opponents have found what they have been eagerly waiting for: shocking revelations of scandal by Jim Bob and Michelle’s firstborn son, Josh."

 

Well no shit.

 

I know it's futile, but if only the fundamentalists would understand that it's the HYPOCRISY we are all railing about. Yes the molestation was horrible, yes not contacting the authorities was awful but sadly happens every day, but we are angry that the JimBlobs have been trying portray GLTB people as monsters when all along it was their precious first miracle Josh, the good Christian, who was the one young women should fear.

 

 

To go a step further, here's the question I would ask these people. (I do acknowledge that Mike Sewald does seem to be supporting the victims here btw)

 

Here's my question to the Duggars and the married in families. If the boy who fondled your daughter wasn't a member of the family, would you have called the cops or accepted his "I'm sorry, Jesus"? That's what I want to know - would the non family molester be treated so kindly?

[photo fox]

I can't speak for Oprah, but she did all that she legally could do. Reported it to the authorties, and let the law take it's course. Only in this case, the family hushed it up. Had Oprah gone after them publicly, it could have been viewed as harassment or defamation. She's not the law.

No, I totally get that. I know there wasn't much they could do legally regarding the abuse. I'm just surprised that, "knowing" what they knew, and knowing that Josh and his parents were targeting gays and trans people and spewing hate, that no one quietly dropped some hints in some ears. Our in other words, no one did what apparently someone DID do just recently.

[Fuzzysox]

Here's a great article worth reading.  http://www.inquisitr.com/2114091/why-i-wont-forgive-and-forget-josh-duggar-or-jim-bob-and-michelle/

Great article. Me thinks the "statements" were written by a PR staff and certainly NOT Josh, or his fucked up parents.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Fuzzysox