Track & Field: Insert Latest Scandal here

[sereion]

Ugh, Allyson coming so close to winning is a punch in gut. Congrats to Miller, though.

This means we're 0-4 in the sprints so far. Sigh.

9 hours ago, sereion said:

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by sereion

[Growsonwalls]

Sigh. So close. I actually don't like races/competitions like this where everyone is racing without any expectation for records. Just getting to the finish line with no major injuries. The way some of the runners and pole vaulters seem like they're slip-sliding through the race seems a shame. And the wipe-outs on hurdles just look dangerous. 

Third night of track seems anti-climactic after the amazing night last night.

[blackwing]

I agree that it seems kind of cheap to win a gold medal by diving.  Although honestly, I'm not even sure what that was... she looked to me like she was stumbling/falling.  But I guess it's more dramatic to say she dove across the line rather than fell across.

If it were up to me and I made the rules, I'd say you have to be upright and have at least one foot on the ground.

[Ohwell]

I heard the announcer say that as long as your torso crossed the line first it was ok, so apparently it doesn't matter if the torso is upright or lying down.  She did what she had to do, so I don't have a problem with it as long as it's legal.

[MyAimIsTrue]

To me it looked like Shaunae stumbled and fell across the line.  Sliding across a surface like that would be painful and bloody and I can't imagine anyone doing that deliberately.

[aemom]

Wow, that pole vaulting was exciting to watch. Unbelievable that the Brasilian set a personal best and Olympic record on his way to snatching the gold medal from the defending champion. What a performance in such a stressful situation. 

[Raachel2008]

31 minutes ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

 

To me it looked like Shaunae stumbled and fell across the line.  Sliding across a surface like that would be painful and bloody and I can't imagine anyone doing that deliberately.

 

Oh, I can imagine a lot of athletes doing that deliberately if it makes them come home with a gold medal.

 

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

I heard the announcer say that as long as your torso crossed the line first it was ok, so apparently it doesn't matter if the torso is upright or lying down.  She did what she had to do, so I don't have a problem with it as long as it's legal.

I too thought Shaunae was diving, and it doesn't sit well with me, seems kind of cheap. She wasn't *running* at that point, just jumping.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Raachel2008

[Enero]

I have to agree with others on the 400m race. I know the rules are the rules but it does come off looking rather cheap and like cheating for someone to win a running race by diving. That's too bad for Allyson. She certainly deserved the win. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Enero

[SophiaD]

OMG, the camera stalking that poor French guy was awful.  Stop it.  Just stop it.

I want to give him a hug.  

[katisha]

I know most on this board aren't from Australia and a lot aren't as ancient as me, but whenever I see false starts causing disqualifications in track events I always think of poor Raelene Boyle in Montreal in 1976 (which, by the way, was a shocking Olympics for Australia in general).  She was disqualified after breaking twice in the final of the 200 metres but according to Wikipedia, it was later shown on video replay that the second break was not her fault.  She missed what would have been some colour of medal.  She was generally very unlucky to have been competing in the era of Eastern Bloc steroid-taking women such as Renate Stecher.  Not that I blame them in hindsight because the drug program was state-sanctioned but that didn't help poor Raelene much.  

So if the cameras were badgering that poor French runner who got disqualified, that's really poor form.

[SophiaD]

They really were, @katisha.  The poor guy walked off, dejectedly tearing off his number, and then collapsed into a little ball, sobbing.  I wanted to slap them.  He's super-young, only 21, so, hopefully, he can come back from this.  

[ElleBee]

<Uninformed, layman opinion> I think any race involving running should be judged solely by toes across the line--no diving, head or torso stretching. Running primarily involves legs and feet, so outstretched chests, heads and/or acrobatic feats shouldn't be the determination of the winner.

[Ceindreadh]

1 hour ago, ElleBee said:

<Uninformed, layman opinion> I think any race involving running should be judged solely by toes across the line--no diving, head or torso stretching. Running primarily involves legs and feet, so outstretched chests, heads and/or acrobatic feats shouldn't be the determination of the winner.

There's an Irish myth/legend about a footrace where the winner would be the one who first set their hand over the deemed finish line.  There was nothing in the rules that specified that it had to be attached to the racer's body, so I think you can guess how the story ended! 

[sereion]

What's interesting is a dive to then finish also cost Felix her slot in the 200 meter final during the Trials, it was Pantrini(sp) who took the dive. I feel awful for her losing twice over a deliberate dive. I get that it's legal, but it I never liked that tatic and agree that cheapens the sport; it is so unfair for those who finished the race upright. If you want to win, you run towards the finish--not dive.

Edited August 16, 2016 by sereion

[aemom]

I really think that diving across the finish line should be banned.  If you happen to trip and fall across the line, then too bad for you. Disqualified. 

I just feel that this could start setting a distasteful precedent. I was shocked when they said it was legal.

[healthnut]

I don't have a problem with the dive, to me, she just wanted it more. I do feel bad for Allyson, she was so devastated. I haven't liked the semifinals and finals running so close together this whole olympics. I would rather the semifinals be in the morning instead of an hour or 90 minutes before the race. 

[blueray]

I was so happy for the Brazilian guy who won! That was really exciting to watch and it is always nice when an underdog wins. Especially since the French guy seemed really arrogant.  Also I was watching the CBC and they were really harsh to there athlete that was eliminated early.

[aemom]

3 minutes ago, blueray said:

I was so happy for the Brazilian guy who won! That was really exciting to watch and it is always nice when an underdog wins. Especially since the French guy seemed really arrogant.  Also I was watching the CBC and they were really harsh to there athlete that was eliminated early.

I was also watching CBC and I never saw the Frenchman congratulate the Brasilian which I thought was in poor form.

I thought that the interview with the Canadian was OK. He was the world champion and expected to medal and finished in 10th. It makes sense to question that and it's not like they shoved a camera in his face and followed him around after he screwed up.  

[walnutqueen]

10 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Too bad for Allyson Felix, but I loved Shaunae Miller diving for that gold!  Congrats to her!

 

10 hours ago, sereion said:

Ugh, Allyson coming so close to winning is a punch in gut. Congrats to Miller, though.

This means we're 0-4 in the sprints so far. Sigh.

Must've been one hell of a punch, since the announcer mentioned she lay on the track crying for some 20 minutes.  Which, if true, seems like a bit much.

[katisha]

1 hour ago, blueray said:

I was so happy for the Brazilian guy who won! That was really exciting to watch and it is always nice when an underdog wins. Especially since the French guy seemed really arrogant. 

I loved watching that too. :)  It was his best ever jump and I'm sure the crowd helped to propel him safely over.  To me, that's what the Olympics should be about.  Also, on Australian TV our field events commentators are an old bloke called Pat Welch and Steve Hooker, who won gold for us in Beijing in this event.  Anyway, the winner seemed to really get a kick out of meeting Steve, saying in his charmingly accented broken English something like, "I love this man.  He is very good jumper too!"  A nice moment.

Also, French people arrogant? Nevair! ;)

[Raachel2008]

13 hours ago, AEMom said:

I was also watching CBC and I never saw the Frenchman congratulate the Brasilian which I thought was in poor form.

Not only Renaud Lavillenie didn't congratulate Thiago Braz, he also blamed the crowd booing him for his poor perfomance - to which I say  bullshit, a top level athlete cannot count on the crowd in any way, IMO. Then Lavillenie used his Twitter account to compare himself to Jesse Fucking Owens, because being a black man in 1936 competing in a stadium full of nazis and Hitler himself is exactly the same situation. He later apologized and deleted his tweet, but what an ass.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Raachel2008

[Superpole2000]

4 hours ago, AEMom said:

I really think that diving across the finish line should be banned.  If you happen to trip and fall across the line, then too bad for you. Disqualified. 

I just feel that this could start setting a distasteful precedent. I was shocked when they said it was legal.

I like running because it's pure. Get across this line first and you win. But you're right. I don't think we should encourage people to literally dive at the finish line to get a better time because we'll be forever scraping bodies off the track.

Perhaps the way to legislate this is to require the first part of you to touch the track after the finish line to be the bottom of one of your shoes. If anything else touches first then you are DQ'd.

Different topic...what's the deal with the triple jump? Hop, skip, and a jump? Who came up with that shit anyway? I can't recall a single instance in my life where I had to hop, skip, and jump in that precise order.

[ElDosEquis]

Give the runners knee and elbow pads and tell them that any body part over the line is good and watch the carnage.

 

WHERE IS LOLO JONES? The US track and field team isn't the same without someone to laud as a possible winner, only crash and burn?

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't know that diving really gains that much though since it's your torso crossing that counts.  When you dive your head and arms are crossing first.  Just like if you lean forward your head goes first.  Granted, I just don't have much of a problem with it.  You don't see it that often, so I've got to think there are cons to it we aren't thinking of.

[blackwing]

3 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

I don't know that diving really gains that much though since it's your torso crossing that counts.  When you dive your head and arms are crossing first.  Just like if you lean forward your head goes first.  Granted, I just don't have much of a problem with it.  You don't see it that often, so I've got to think there are cons to it we aren't thinking of.

The only con appears to be people like me and others saying it was a cheap way to win.  I'm going to go on believing that Allyson Felix would have won that race if Shaunae Miller had stayed on her feet and run it right.  But we had the esteemed Sanya Richards Ross saying that in a final, you're going to do whatever it takes to win, and she applauded Miller for "going for it".

People here have been saying "as long as the torso crosses first, it's ok".  But here, clearly, Miller won because her hand crossed the line.  And when people lean, the photo finishes always show heads crossing the line.  The torso isn't crossing first.  Do you mean "torso before feet"?  Because I thought people could lunge and outstretch their leg and if their foot crossed, it counted.  No?

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't know about all the pics.  The ones I've seen may have heads across the line but the torso is at the line.  And it's what I've heard multiple commentators say.  I don't about torso before feet, I think it's more to keep people from just flailing their arms forward, or something, but I'm no historian in this sport or its rules.  I only ever watch track events during the Olympics.

[MyAimIsTrue]

I saw a comment from Michael Johnson (sorry that I can't recall the source) and he believed Miller appeared to stumble, and added running straight through is faster than diving across the line.  He's an authority I would listen to.

[sereion]

 Way to go Christian Taylor and Willie Gray for winning gold and silver, in the Triple jump!! Double yay for Christian for being the first to double in since 1904!!! Can't wait to see it tonight!

[KenyaJ]

I certainly appreciate the insights of people like Sanya Richards-Ross and Michael Johnson, and I don't feel any sense of outrage over Miller winning. However, I agree with Johnson that she appeared to stumble. And, IMO, it sucks that you can lose a race because your opponent trips and her momentum carries her across the finish line a fraction of a second before you.

Having said that, thems the breaks. It reminds me of the first time I watched short track in the Salt Lake games. I remember being so excited to see Apolo Ohno race after all the hype about him, being excited when he was leading, and then being stunned when one of the other skaters crashed, taking out all the skaters near him, and allowing the Australian skater who was dead last to cross the finish line and get the gold. Did it feel like an injustice? A bit. But the Australian had a great sense of humor about it, and Ohno totally charmed me but shrugging with a smile and saying "That's short track."

The outcome of last night's race grates to me, but before falling, Shaunae Miller ran her ass off and I can't say she didn't deserve to win. And Allyson was classy and gracious in defeat, which is all I could ask for. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by KenyaJ

[DollEyes]

6 hours ago, AEMom said:

I really think that diving across the finish line should be banned.  If you happen to trip and fall across the line, then too bad for you. Disqualified. 

I just feel that this could start setting a distasteful precedent. I was shocked when they said it was legal.

 ITA. That dive may have been technically legal, but it stinks to high heaven IMO. That Alyson Felix was so gracious in defeat proves just how classy she is. 

Congrats to the Brazilian pole vaulter! He and his vault were perfect. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by DollEyes

[Zuleikha]

I saw a comment from Michael Johnson (sorry that I can't recall the source) and he believed Miller appeared to stumble, and added running straight through is faster than diving across the line.  He's an authority I would listen to.

I was distance, not sprints, but that makes sense to me. Sprinting--especially in the 100m--is so fast that I can see it being hard for an athlete to switch her body to leaping and diving. That's different muscular engagement. Leaning is an extension of the movement already in process (and people train to lean at the finish). But tripping requires no intentionality.

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

I saw a comment from Michael Johnson (sorry that I can't recall the source) and he believed Miller appeared to stumble, and added running straight through is faster than diving across the line.  He's an authority I would listen to.

I've often heard the same thing said watching baseball games, when a batter dives into first base trying to beat a close throw.

And a couple of interesting points from NBC News:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-rio-summer-olympics/rio-olympics-shaunae-miller-s-dive-denied-allyson-felix-gold-n631636

Felix referenced the controversial result on TODAY early Tuesday. She said she was "not too used to seeing" her competitors dive at the end of the race. "It happens every now and then but it's not too common," she said.  "It wasn't my best race," she admitted. "I felt like it got a little bit away from me."

In fact, diving for the line is not as unheard of as Felix made out — and Americans have used the tactic as much as anyone in recent years.  At the Beijing Olympics in 2008, it was a U.S. athlete, David Neville, who dove past a Bahamian, Chris Brown, to win bronze in the 400 meters.

And Felix's own teammate, Natasha Hastings, who finished fourth in Monday's race, dove last month to make the Olympic team in the first place.

[SeanC]

Watching the 200m heats was interesting.  Bolt obviously not expending any more energy than necessary, but still showing off why he's such a great athlete.  And two Canadians make the semis, though obviously De Grasse is the one to watch.

[Crs97]

Have you seen the video of Bolt being interviewed?  He heard the US National anthem start in the background and stopped the interview so that they could show their respect.  I love this man!

[festivus]

Haven't seen it yet but I love that guy. He's my favorite person in the Olympics.

[Crs97]

[voiceover]

11 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

There's an Irish myth/legend about a footrace where the winner would be the one who first set their hand over the deemed finish line.  There was nothing in the rules that specified that it had to be attached to the racer's body, so I think you can guess how the story ended! 

Eeyeeuwwww...

Sounds like an O. Henry story.  Or maybe, since it's Irish, O'Henry.

[MyAimIsTrue]

3 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Having said that, thems the breaks. It reminds me of the first time I watched short track in the Salt Lake games. I remember being so excited to see Apolo Ohno race after all the hype about him, being excited when he was leading, and then being stunned when one of the other skaters crashed, taking out all the skaters near him, and allowing the Australian skater who was dead last to cross the finish line and get the gold. Did it feel like an injustice? A bit. But the Australian had a great sense of humor about it, and Ohno totally charmed me but shrugging with a smile and saying "That's short track."

Steven Bradbury was the name of the Aussie skater who won gold because everyone else crashed.  I loved that moment, and his WTF facial expression as he crossed the finish line.

[kittykat]

Whenever I'm due for a good laugh, that 1000m 2002 men's short track final is my go to.  It just makes me so happy.

Glad Bolt is still looking good.  I'm keeping my eyes on DeGrasse though.

[KenyaJ]

7 minutes ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

Steven Bradbury was the name of the Aussie skater who won gold because everyone else crashed.  I loved that moment, and his WTF facial expression as he crossed the finish line.

After the race, he said "Sometimes the sun shines even on a dog's ass," which instantly made me love him.

[selkie]

The track & field version of Bradbury was the Belgian womens' 4x100 in Beijing 2008. Only 11 of 16 squads managed to get the baton around legally in the heats (the USA's spring relay woes continued there). Of the 8 teams in the final Poland, Jamaica, and the UK all DQed over the course of a lap, the Nigerians choked on a golden opportunity, leaving the Russian women first, and Belgium second. Then they retested the 2008 anti-doping samples earlier this year, and one of the Russian women was discovered to be positive, leaving that noted sprint powerhouse likely to be reallocated gold later on this year, hopefully not in a Frankfurt airport food court . (see how Adam Nelson got his reallocated shot put medal a ways back.)

[mightysparrow]

The dive across the finish line was dramatic and emotional but that shouldn't be the winner.  It's a running competition.  If Shaunae tripped, that's really unfortunate.  If she dove, she should be out.  I think Allyson should be the winner.

[mightysparrow]

6 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

 

Must've been one hell of a punch, since the announcer mentioned she lay on the track crying for some 20 minutes.  Which, if true, seems like a bit much.

These athletes give their LIVES to their sport.  To be beaten by a dive across the finish line must make Allyson wonder what all that hard work was for.  They'd have to carry me off the track.

[walnutqueen]

17 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

These athletes give their LIVES to their sport.  To be beaten by a dive across the finish line must make Allyson wonder what all that hard work was for.  They'd have to carry me off the track.

Sure, but I've not seen another athlete prostrate (and uninjured) in the middle of the field of play for 20 minutes.  Perhaps someone should have carried her off the track if she was that incapacitated by grief and frustration. She "lost" by the rules of the race, just like many others who didn't carry on that way.

I just hope the announcer got it wrong, and she didn't make a spectacle of herself.

[kitcloudkicker]

26 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I just hope the announcer got it wrong, and she didn't make a spectacle of herself.

I didn't watch it, but the only pictures I saw had Felix smiling at a crying Miller and helping her off the ground. Seems in good spirits to me. 

http://jezebel.com/shaunae-miller-wins-gold-in-400m-sprinting-hugs-ensue-1785329345

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

The dive across the finish line was dramatic and emotional but that shouldn't be the winner.  It's a running competition.  If Shaunae tripped, that's really unfortunate.  If she dove, she should be out.  I think Allyson should be the winner.

It's within the rules, therefore Shaunae Miller is rightfully the winner; as others have pointed out, she isn't the first to win that way.  So long as she doesn't fail her drug tests, of course.  (Not implying anything about Ms. Miller, but track has been known to be a dirty sport at times.)

[Zanzibar]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

That video is from the 2012 Olympics, not the Rio Olympics.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Zanzibar

[Occasional Hope]

10 hours ago, blueray said:

I was so happy for the Brazilian guy who won! That was really exciting to watch and it is always nice when an underdog wins. Especially since the French guy seemed really arrogant.  Also I was watching the CBC and they were really harsh to there athlete that was eliminated early.

Lavillenie's well known as an arrogant jerk who thinks he's better than any of his competitors.  Technically he is, he's a fantastic athlete, WR holder and will probably break it again, but that doesn't make up for the arrogant jerkness.  He does stuff like waiting for everyone else to fail their last height before he even starts.  Occasionally it's come back to bite him, which is always a pleasure.  I dislike him more than any other athlete who isn't a drugs cheat. 

[sereion]

2 hours ago, kittykat said:

 

Glad Bolt is still looking good.  I'm keeping my eyes on DeGrasse though.

Given that DeGrasse had the fastest qualifying time, he could steal Bolt's thunder and pull off a MASSIVE upset. My eye is on him too. (Plus, he's tasty eye candy!)

[Crs97]

Thanks for the clarification, zanzibar.  Still a very cool thing I hadn't seen before.  Usain talking about defending his gold?  Easy to get confused which Olympics.  I should have checked the date.