The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[auntieminem]

14 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I can see that for sure. My take is she wanted to hurt her parents as little as possible, but still get her point across. I'm not saying its the best way to tell her story, but whether the blame is implicit or explicit its still there.

I agree. It reminds me of my short lived therapy when I was younger when the therapist suggested I talk to my mother about the things she did that were damaging to me. I knew my parents did the best they could given their own upbringing so me discussing that would only hurt her and would not change anything.  

I would imagine Jinger also knows her siblings might get defensive for their parents and would be less likely to be open to question IBLP.  She was already getting blasted before the book came out for betraying her "wonderful parents" .  

Edited February 5, 2023 by auntieminem

[LilJen]

According to the Reddit summary, J&J were “relieved” when CO was cancelled. The breakout stars, relieved? Ha.

[SMama]

Just now, LilJen said:

According to the Reddit summary, J&J were “relieved” when CO was cancelled. The breakout stars, relieved? Ha.

Maybe because in Jeremy’s delusional mind they were going to be offered their own show.

[floridamom]

A strange thing here; I was in church today with my husband and the pastor preached about legalism. I immediately thought of the Duggars/Bates, etc. and their "rules". The pastor said how God doesn't want us to follow a list of rules; God wants us to have faith in Him, etc. Saying to God, "see, I followed all the rules to the letter...so, I will be in heaven...it's like I did it myself, God, so I don't really need You as long as I follow the rules." You become a believer in rules, not God. Ironically how this was the subject this morning. I wished JB and Michelle were present to hear this. I'm glad that Jinger has dumped the Gothard rules and regs....she now needs to dump the MacArthur "men are superior" issues. Maybe one day.....I can hope. Thanks for listening.

[ginger90]

That reminded me of something. At my grandson’s church 2 or 3 weeks ago, this story was told, relating to pride:

 

In a certain pond lived two wild ducks and a frog. They were the best of
friends. All day long they played together. When the hot summer came, the
pond began to dry up. Soon there was so little water that they realized 
they would have to move. Now the ducks could easily fly to another pond, 
but what about their friend, the frog? 

Finally, it was decided that the ducks would put the two ends of a stick 
in their bills. Then the frog could hang onto the middle of the stick with
his mouth, and the ducks would fly him to another pond. 

As they were flying low, a farmer in his field looked up; and when he saw
the strange formation, he said, "Well, isn't that a clever idea! I wonder
who thought of that?" The frog opened his big mouth and said, "I did!" 
Then down he fell to his death. 

[Nysha]

On 2/3/2023 at 1:26 PM, GeeGolly said:

Yes, I can give examples. Jill has done more than one IG reel about instant obedience with the older boys. During a Q & A they did, long after the JB feud, they discussed using the same courting guidelines if their kids were under 21 and would encourage the same guidelines if they were over 21 but think holding hands while dating when over the age of 21 would be okay. They also said they appreciate the way Jill was raised and will use many of the same parenting 'skills'. 

The instant obedience isn't limited to Gothard, the Wesleyan church I went to when my kids were in grade school encouraged the same game she & Michelle played. I did it with my kids, who were not beaten if they argued or disobeyed. The kids liked playing it because they got candy for hopping on one foot or getting me the dice in the game drawer. However, since y'all are adamant it's a horrible game, I bow to the majority. 

The courting rules are ridiculous and I bet that Derrick is just mouthing his approval because he didn't seem to like them much when he was courting Jill.

[GeeGolly]

11 hours ago, Nysha said:

The instant obedience isn't limited to Gothard, the Wesleyan church I went to when my kids were in grade school encouraged the same game she & Michelle played. I did it with my kids, who were not beaten if they argued or disobeyed. The kids liked playing it because they got candy for hopping on one foot or getting me the dice in the game drawer. However, since y'all are adamant it's a horrible game, I bow to the majority. 

The courting rules are ridiculous and I bet that Derrick is just mouthing his approval because he didn't seem to like them much when he was courting Jill.

The game played to teach instant obedience isn't what bothers me. Personally, I don't thinks its healthy for kids to "obey" with no thought or question. But YMMV.

Edited February 6, 2023 by GeeGolly

[cmr2014]

I don't think that Jinger wrote much of this book. I think it may well be a choice on the part of the ghostwriter to go easy on JB and J'chelle. The expected audience is Jinger's humper followers who may still percieve JB and J'chelle as good people. There's also nothing for MacArthur to gain by having Jinger badmouth her parents (honor your mother and father is in the Bible after all).

This really isn't a tell-all about how horribly she was raised by her parents, it's meant to be an expose on how believing in the wrong Jesus can lead to bad outcomes -- like anxiety and depression.

[oliviabenson]

On 2/2/2023 at 4:29 PM, sagittarius sue said:

Then she'll hint of the possibility of twins.

Adopting twins!

[Gemma Violet]

Another interview:

 

[GeeGolly]

I didn't watch the video, but in the still it looks as though they have an encased sneaker on the wall. Is there anything these two don't collect?

Pens, pocket squares, mugs sneakers, books ...

[BetyBee]

Did Jinger say anything new or different on this latest video? I'm kind of Jinger-ed out!

[oliviabenson]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I didn't watch the video, but in the still it looks as though they have an encased sneaker on the wall. Is there anything these two don't collect?

Pens, pocket squares, mugs sneakers, books ...

It’s beginning to look like hoarding lol

[Gemma Violet]

6 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Did Jinger say anything new or different on this latest video? 

Not really anything new.  

[AstridM]

9 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Not really anything new.  

She parrots the talking points as she was taught. 

[MamaMax]

On 2/3/2023 at 3:41 PM, AstridM said:

What’s funny is that Jinger talks about meeting (?) Germy at Big Sandy, and says he did not attend to hang out with her, but to spend time with Bin and Jessa. He chose to attend cult camp at Big Sandy for fun? Sure, Jan. 

I suspect Jeremy was Virgin hunting over at the Big Sandy Christian Fellowship Festival and Cult Convention. 

 

As far as why MacWhatever appeals to Jermy I would say it appeals to his "I wanna be an intalectchual" ego nonsense. Dont they spend an inordinate amount of time parsing out the "ORIGINAL WORDS" of the Greek or Hebrew etc etc to try and prove that their interpretation is the ONE TRUE CORRECT VERSION! 

[BetyBee]

I'm listening right now to episode 119 of the Leaving Eden Podcast wherein the hosts discuss the whole of Jinger's book, Becoming Free Indeed in great detail. I must alert you that the podcast is a couple of hours long. It is a fascinating breakdown.

[jcbrown]

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I'm listening right now to episode 119 of the Leaving Eden Podcast wherein the hosts discuss the whole of Jinger's book, Becoming Free Indeed in great detail. I must alert you that the podcast is a couple of hours long. It is a fascinating breakdown.

If you're willing to share the main points, I'm sure you have a willing audience here!

[BetyBee]

9 hours ago, jcbrown said:

If you're willing to share the main points, I'm sure you have a willing audience here!

I'll probably listen again, but they were pretty unimpressed by Jinger's "writing" and her smug (yes! they called some of her points smug!), but mostly by her doctrine. They are not fans of John MacArthur and Calvinism. Sadie, who has deconstructed from IFB - I believe she's Catholic now, and a very progressive Christian, is very open minded and less critical because she's hopeful that Jinger is on a journey that will continue. Her own journey has some similarities with Jinger's, including a sex scandal by the leaders of her church. The other host, Gavriel, is Jewish and it's very interesting to hear him learn all about the various versions of Christianity! Anyway, he was angered by some of Jinger's points. 

They were frustrated by Jinger going on about the freedom she's found in Jesus, because she never goes into detail. They feel that she has traded one cult for another, that Jinger feels that she has found THE CORRECT faith and that no one should leave Christianity. Jinger abhors deconstruction, which is why she favors "disentangling". Jinger feels that everyone should join Grace church and follow MacArthur's thinking. The hosts don't like MacArthur's homophobia and disdain for good works. Sadie isn't a fan of Jeremy. but is understanding that he treats Jinger well, much better than she'd have ever expected to be treated by an IBLP husband. Sadie feels that understanding of faith evolves throughout life and is not impressed that Jinger seems to feel that at 29, she is done searching and is happy to take direction from Jeremy and MacArthur. They were both astonished that Jinger stated something like that she doesn't want to rely on her own mind for making decisions. That statement sounded to me like she still prefers a headship to make all decisions. That is very sad, imo. Sadie was also disgusted that Jinger interviewed with that Allie Beth person. She's not a fan.

They went chapter by chapter in great detail.  Hope that helps!

[AstridM]

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

because she never goes into detail

I knew it!

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Sadie isn't a fan of Jeremy. but is understanding that he treats Jinger well, much better than she'd have ever expected to be treated by an IBLP husband.

I bet her brother Joe treats Kendra better than Germy treats her. 

[SMama]

38 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I knew it!

I bet her brother Joe treats Kendra better than Germy treats her. 

Except for not getting off of Kendra so she can go a year without being pregnant, or post pregnancy. Off to the prayer closet I go.

[Kellyee]

Quote

Except for not getting off of Kendra so she can go a year without being pregnant, or post pregnancy. Off to the prayer closet I go.

Why are you so sure it's Joe who wants 500 kids? The vibe I got from Anna Duggar was that SHE was the one who was thrilled every time another "blessing" was coming, not Josh. We can't be sure Joe and Kendra's relationship is any different.

I would bet money that the family planning going on in California is all Jeremy's doing though, not Jinger. I think Jeremy calls the shots, and he likes it that way. I would bet this latest book was mostly Jeremy's idea too, to continue to cash in on the Duggar name. I think Jinger is reasonably happy and glad to be out of the IBLP, but I don't think it was her idea. And I think she is still trying to come up with the "right answers", and not thinking completely independently now as she claims.

 

 

 

[oliviabenson]

5 hours ago, BetyBee said:

I'll probably listen again, but they were pretty unimpressed by Jinger's "writing" and her smug (yes! they called some of her points smug!), but mostly by her doctrine. They are not fans of John MacArthur and Calvinism. Sadie, who has deconstructed from IFB - I believe she's Catholic now, and a very progressive Christian, is very open minded and less critical because she's hopeful that Jinger is on a journey that will continue. Her own journey has some similarities with Jinger's, including a sex scandal by the leaders of her church. The other host, Gavriel, is Jewish and it's very interesting to hear him learn all about the various versions of Christianity! Anyway, he was angered by some of Jinger's points. 

They were frustrated by Jinger going on about the freedom she's found in Jesus, because she never goes into detail. They feel that she has traded one cult for another, that Jinger feels that she has found THE CORRECT faith and that no one should leave Christianity. Jinger abhors deconstruction, which is why she favors "disentangling". Jinger feels that everyone should join Grace church and follow MacArthur's thinking. The hosts don't like MacArthur's homophobia and disdain for good works. Sadie isn't a fan of Jeremy. but is understanding that he treats Jinger well, much better than she'd have ever expected to be treated by an IBLP husband. Sadie feels that understanding of faith evolves throughout life and is not impressed that Jinger seems to feel that at 29, she is done searching and is happy to take direction from Jeremy and MacArthur. They were both astonished that Jinger stated something like that she doesn't want to rely on her own mind for making decisions. That statement sounded to me like she still prefers a headship to make all decisions. That is very sad, imo. Sadie was also disgusted that Jinger interviewed with that Allie Beth person. She's not a fan.

They went chapter by chapter in great detail.  Hope that helps!

Thanks so much!

Jingle does not want to use her brain? Ummm okay… what will Jingle do if Jeremy dies???

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, BetyBee said:

 

They were frustrated by Jinger going on about the freedom she's found in Jesus, because she never goes into detail. They feel that she has traded one cult for another, that Jinger feels that she has found THE CORRECT faith and that no one should leave Christianity. Jinger abhors deconstruction, which is why she favors "disentangling". Jinger feels that everyone should join Grace church and follow MacArthur's thinking.

 

Really savvy of MacArthur to offer people a less scary alternative to completely leaving the faith. His people really have been studying ex-evangelicals if this is the language in Jinger's book.

 

Quote

They were both astonished that Jinger stated something like that she doesn't want to rely on her own mind for making decisions. That statement sounded to me like she still prefers a headship to make all decisions.

Never forget Jinger's "I'm just not very opinionated! *Giggle*" and "I DON'T WANT TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS WITHOUT JEREMY!" over something as simple as decorating. She has no desire to think any original thoughts. Whatever Jeremy thinks, she thinks. She doesn't express any opinions until she hears what Jeremy has to say.

[StaceyNotStacie]

https://youtu.be/aUu-mi2S4fQ

 

Jinger was on Daily Blast Live yesterday. The interview went pretty well with the “View-like” panel. 

[SMama]

Jinger does write about the FF in her book. Talks about his sin and hypocrisy. And when the interviewer notes Jinger prays for her brother she makes it clear she prays for the victims first, and is thankful for the justice system. I think we can safely put stand by your man, there’s more to the story Anna on the not a fan of the book or Jinger list. 
 

Initially I was critical of Jinger’s inability or unwillingness to clearly call out her vile parents for being sucked into a cult, and damaging their children in the process.  With every interview where Jinger talks about Gothard, uses the term cult like (wink, wink), and talks about being afraid of God taking her life over listening to drums, it is abundantly clear what a pair of gullible, inept, and selfish idiots JB and Michelle are. How they royally screwed up their kids, turned a blind eye to the sexual assault of their daughters, blinded by their subjugation to a cult. The thing is I don’t know if Boob and Mullet understand how they come across. 

[AstridM]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

Except for not getting off of Kendra so she can go a year without being pregnant, or post pregnancy. Off to the prayer closet I go.

True. But I can’t see Joe saying no if Kendra felt strongly about not having any more kids. 

2 hours ago, Kellyee said:

Why are you so sure it's Joe who wants 500 kids? The vibe I got from Anna Duggar was that SHE was the one who was thrilled every time another "blessing" was coming, not Josh. We can't be sure Joe and Kendra's relationship is any different.

I would bet money that the family planning going on in California is all Jeremy's doing though, not Jinger. I think Jeremy calls the shots, and he likes it that way. I would bet this latest book was mostly Jeremy's idea too, to continue to cash in on the Duggar name. I think Jinger is reasonably happy and glad to be out of the IBLP, but I don't think it was her idea. And I think she is still trying to come up with the "right answers", and not thinking completely independently now as she claims.

 

 

 

Absolutely to all of your points here. 

[jcbrown]

Thank you, @BetyBee! I find it sad that Jinger came out of a faith she herself defines as a cult and she was sure for so long that it was the Only Way but she fails to question her instinct to jump into another Only Way.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, SMama said:

The thing is I don’t know if Boob and Mullet understand how they come across. 

I think they know exactly how they come across but they both also are completely believe they did everything right in every scenerio especially how they handled that FF did to their daughters and everyone else is wrong. They chose to give that interview and force two of his victims to be part of the interview which was all about how they did everything right. 

[Stevie Nicks]

22 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

Thanks so much!

Jingle does not want to use her brain? Ummm okay… what will Jingle do if Jeremy dies???

Go back to Arkansas and live under Boobs "headship" of course. She can't be on her own without a man in charge.  Wimmins can't do that. 

[SMama]

7 minutes ago, Stevie Nicks said:

Go back to Arkansas and live under Boobs "headship" of course. She can't be on her own without a man in charge.  Wimmins can't do that. 

I’m frequently amused by fundies who think their legalistic, iron fist child raising method produces the smartest, prematurely mature, hard working adults. One look at the Duggar and Bates spawns and all they have managed to do is turn lose into the world barely educated, lazy, entitled, devoid of a work ethic, incurious, unthinking, good for nothing bots. 

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

I’m frequently amused by fundies who think their legalistic, iron fist child raising method produces the smartest, prematurely mature, hard working adults. One look at the Duggar and Bates spawns and all they have managed to do is turn lose into the world barely educated, lazy, entitled, devoid of a work ethic, incurious, unthinking, good for nothing bots. 

Not to mention misogynistic, racist, homophobic, and transphobic. 

[ChristmasCandy]

Is this just me I rewatched all of Jingers interviews and watching her body language looked like she was just saying things that she thought we wanted to hear.

[SMama]

2 minutes ago, ChristmasCandy said:

Is this just me I rewatched all of Jingers interviews and watching her body language looked like she was just saying things that she thought we wanted to hear.

Jinger is a product of her environment. No one will ever know if it’s Jinger talking or someone pulling the strings. Michelle said of her courtship with Jeremy, “He’s a good leader and she’s a good follower.” Make of that what you will. She looks less stressed out in her new cult. 

[Ohiopirate02]

For all the promotion Thomas Nelson and Jinger did, Jinger's book sold a little over 24,000 print copies last week according to Publishers Weekly.  I wish I could figure out what her initial print run was to really see how well she actually did. If it was a 25,000 or less print run, then she's getting or has already received a second printing and this may never show up at discount stores.  This was not a bad first week for Jinger.  She beat out the other main memoir from last week, Pamela Anderson.  

What I do find interesting with Jinger is she did not make the NYT bestseller list.  This means she did not sell well at the bookstores that report to the Times.  

[ginger90]

Jinger’s book made the NYT’s best seller list under, Advice, How-To & Miscellaneous.

[Ohiopirate02]

54 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Jinger’s book made the NYT’s best seller list under, Advice, How-To & Miscellaneous.

Oh, ok.  I only looked on the main nonfiction list.  The Times has their own criteria for deciding which list a book belongs on to go with their proprietary data collection.  I guess they decided that religious memoirs like Jinger's are miscellaneous.  

[Salacious Kitty]

Well well well. 

Mac Daddy's church is under fire.

[quarks]

5 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Jinger’s book made the NYT’s best seller list under, Advice, How-To & Miscellaneous.

(eyes the little dagger below that listing)

With, it seems, the help of a bulk purchase from someone to get it on that listing. And a couple of calls to make sure it ended up on the miscellaneous list and not the nonfiction one.

[Gemma Violet]

Jinger's book has made Amazon's main best-seller lists.  She's currently No. 4 on the Most Sold Non-Fiction and No. 9 on the Most Read Non-Fiction.

[Gemma Violet]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

(eyes the little dagger below that listing)

With, it seems, the help of a bulk purchase from someone to get it on that listing.

Re the NY Times list that Jinger's on, I just checked and there were daggers on 5 of the 10 books listed.  So buying bulk must be a thing.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Gemma Violet

[BetyBee]

7 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Well well well. 

Mac Daddy's church is under fire.

If I had any doubt (I didn't), that information confirms that MacArthur and Bill Shannon and the Grace elders are garbage people, who apparently do not value the lives of women or children. Jeremy and Jinger are fools. Jinger is absolutely in another cult. 

[GeeGolly]

I wasn't aware of this dagger rating. I guess it goes back to the mid 90s when two authors spent oodles of money to buy their own book to push up the list. But yet as @Gemma Violetpoints out, half the NYT list have daggers. So is a dagger similar to the steroid asterisk in baseball? 

Does anyone know what consists of a bulk order? Like over 1000 at a time, or whatever. Maybe the NYT should create two lists - one dagger free.

[Scarlett45]

17 hours ago, SMama said:

Jinger is a product of her environment. No one will ever know if it’s Jinger talking or someone pulling the strings. Michelle said of her courtship with Jeremy, “He’s a good leader and she’s a good follower.” Make of that what you will. She looks less stressed out in her new cult. 

Yes. Also, some people are natural "followers" they are not assertive or leaders. If they are lucky the are born into environments where people treat them well, and if they are partnered, they have loving understanding partners who lead well. I can say of Jeremy and Jinger's courtship that she did seem really INTO him, for himself. Those feelings were not faked, so I can believe she is happy being lead by him.

I have found in most couples there is a personality that is more dominant (nothing wrong with that) it just can be scary in heterosexual relationships because men have the social, economic and physical upper hand, women have more to lose following a man leading them down the wrong path than the other way around. 

[Stevie Nicks]

9 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Well well well. 

Mac Daddy's church is under fire.

I read that as "on fire" not under fire. Off to find another cup of coffee. 

[ginger90]

42 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I wasn't aware of this dagger rating. I guess it goes back to the mid 90s when two authors spent oodles of money to buy their own book to push up the list. But yet as @Gemma Violetpoints out, half the NYT list have daggers. So is a dagger similar to the steroid asterisk in baseball? 

Does anyone know what consists of a bulk order? Like over 1000 at a time, or whatever. Maybe the NYT should create two lists - one dagger free.

I poked around a bit. I didn’t find how many books are considered to be bulk. However, I found an article that refers to this as “the dagger of death”, and goes on to say it’s the NYT’s way of calling out authors.

[GeeGolly]

I'm going to assume J&J's relation is like most - they each hold "power" in different areas. I'm also going to assume, because Jinger is human, that as she matures and has more real life experiences she'll become more of an equal partner, well that is, if she wants to be.

[auntieminem]

10 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Well well well. 

Mac Daddy's church is under fire.

I read this yesterday and wondered how much Jinger and Jeremy knew about this. The one story was reported on a year ago but this one will get much more attention being as it is CT and that the churches ex elder and attorney is reporting.  How is the the guy in charge of counseling not in jail?  I feel sad for Jinger if she didn't know, that she now sees what kind of church with a cult like leader she is following. Mega churches are so shady (many small churches as well) and some of their devoted members often have no clue what is going on at the top. 

[GeeGolly]

20 minutes ago, auntieminem said:

I read this yesterday and wondered how much Jinger and Jeremy knew about this. The one story was reported on a year ago but this one will get much more attention being as it is CT and that the churches ex elder and attorney is reporting.  How is the the guy in charge of counseling not in jail?  I feel sad for Jinger if she didn't know, that she now sees what kind of church with a cult like leader she is following. Mega churches are so shady (many small churches as well) and some of their devoted members often have no clue what is going on at the top. 

Wow, that is some fucked up stuff in that article. When I read things like this it makes me even more leery of organized religion. 

But on the flip side, I also have days when I envy folks with a strong faith.

[auntieminem]

The Roys Report (who reported the earlier on the original case) has a story and also has a copy of Grace Church's  response to the CT article.   https://julieroys.com/former-elder-at-john-macarthurs-church-confronts-awful-patterns-of-endangering-abuse-victims/