The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[crazy8s]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Jill has made strides in some areas, fashion is not one of them.

could be said for many of us here - myself included

[Tdoc72]

On 10/12/2020 at 12:39 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

Yup. They absolutely go to maskless, non-socially distanced church. 😷

 

Looks like a gay pride tie to me. 

[auntieminem]

17 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

Looks like a gay pride tie to me. 

There were a few comments on instagram about it being a gay pride tie. The responses were funny (well not funny as some were upset at the thought of it). 

[jcbrown]

On 10/12/2020 at 6:23 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

I hope that she is at least interested and coordinated enough to give it a good try...I was always horrible at team sports, and actively feared anything to do with them. I was the kid who managed to get a D in PE. And it's not that I was necessarily a couch potato...I rode my bike a lot, and liked hiking, and swimming in season, but hated organized sports, and have less than no interest in them to this day. I was invariably picked dead last for any teams, and had an insurmountable tendency to cover my face and duck at the merest hint of a ball coming anywhere near my general direction. High school sports were hell. My daughter is much like me in that respect, but was lucky enough to latch onto Tae Kwon Do pretty early in life, and excelled at that. There was nothing like that in my day and age, though, knowing myself, I'm not sure that would have worked out any better, as I have always had a bit of antipathy toward structured discipline. Given that I never could be persuaded to genuflect coming down the aisle in a Catholic church, I really doubt that I could have found it in myself to bow at the start of a Tae Kwon Do class either. But that's just my personable bit of unreasonableness.

Wait, when did I post my response to this? Jynnan, we had the same experience. Why would I not duck when someone throws a ball at my head? Self-preservation, seems to me. Being the youngest kid in my class and a late bloomer besides, gym class and I were not friends.

That said, I hope Felicity gets to learn that her body is capable of more than breeding.

[MaryAnneSpier]

15 hours ago, ginger90 said:

 

Jill, on Jinger’s post:

I want to imagine that Jill is pulling a Regina George here and complimenting an outfit, and then immediately after leaving the comment, turning to Derick and saying, "That is the ugliest effing jacket and tie I've ever seen."  I know Jill is too nice for that, but it's still fun to pretend that's the case. 

[Zella]

"Stop trying to make pocket squares happen! They're not going to happen!"

[emmawoodhouse]

Yes, Jinge. A decaf PSL is newsworthy. 🙄

 

[BigBingerBro]

[Temperance]

That's one of the few times. I've liked one of their hashtags. Talking about coffee beverages is fairly common on Instagram. It makes sense to point out it's decaf since she's pregnant and will probably still hear from others about it.  When you're trying to make a disclaimer, it's best to make it obvious and stick out like that so that most of the audience doesn't miss it. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Temperance

[Zella]

It's Tuesdays, Jeremy, not Tuesday's. Get your grammatical shit together. 

[xwordfanatik]

Who is that guy in the picture?

[Churchhoney]

13 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Who is that guy in the picture?

It's one of the Grace Church/Master's Seminary staff. A MacArthur guy. I think it's the same one Jer had a previous "parking-lot breakfast" with. Somebody found his name/title that time. ... Or maybe this is just another picture of that breakfast and not a new one. Looks like it could be the same food we saw before.....

Austin T. Duncan  the Grace Church College Pastor -- according to the other photos. I'm pretty sure this is an old picture of that same breakfast Jer posted a month or so ago. 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Churchhoney

[emmawoodhouse]

I want to say that he's an associate pastor. So yeah, someone Jer has to suck up to.

[ginger90]

[CouchTater]

7 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Yes, Jinge. A decaf PSL is newsworthy. 🙄

 

Jinger has really ugly fingers/nails/cuticles.

[questionfear]

14 hours ago, ginger90 said:

What happens when the Vuolos run out of family members to interview?

[Zella]

26 minutes ago, questionfear said:

What happens when the Vuolos run out of family members to interview?

They'll bring back Punchable Aunt Cade for a victory lap. 

[Scarlett45]

 

Quote

It was an episode about JB, Michelle, and Jinger going to Laredo to see Jeremy's place, so JB poked his nose everywhere and made snide/"funny" comments. They later went out to eat and talked about Jeremy's future plans re: Jinger.

While I don't give the Duggars or their hangers on much benefit of the doubt on anything, I do tend to dismiss a lot of their onscreen interactions as exaggerations for the cameras. But that episode? JB meant every word he said. He looked pissed. If I thought Jinger had the spine, I'd think JB had tried to end the relationship and Jinger refused, maybe even threatening to go to the media if he pushed. The tension emanating from JB in that episode was palpable in a way I hadn't seen before or since.

@lascuba brought over your post from the Seewald thread.

 

I do remember this interaction. JB did NOT like Jeremy and it was clear. I think he only went along with the courtship because the Josh scandals had just happened (both of them) the fall before Jinger & Jeremy went on the mission trip together December 2015, they were "talking" until the spring, courted for only 7 weeks and then were engaged that summer. JB didnt know what TLC was going to look like after the scandals and Jinger was clearly into Jeremy, she may have actually balked if they tried to prohibit her from developing a relationship with him.

Jeremy (unlike Derrick or Ben) was a grown ass man who had lived on his own, and although he was the "the kind of Christian JB found acceptable" he wasn't controllable. Remember when they flipped out when he put his arm around Jinger? it was too much.

[Zella]

I think that Jim Bob and Jeremy have too similar of personalities to get along. And truthfully I think Derick and Jim Bob are also too much alike, though in a different way from Jeremy, for them to ever get along either. 

[SMama]

Is that the episode when at the airport JB moved Jinger away from Jeremy and she returned to her boyfriend? When they go up the escalator JB puts his arm around Jinger and looks back at Jeremy all donkey faced smug? What an insufferable ass. I hope his children wheel him and Michelle around on an office chair. For many years.

[GeeGolly]

I really want to re-watch the episode now. I remember thinking JB was very insecure around Jeremy. I thought JB was acting like a buffoon, using childish humor to try to alleviate and mask his discomfort.

[Genevrier]

17 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I really want to re-watch the episode now. I remember thinking JB was very insecure around Jeremy. I thought JB was acting like a buffoon, using childish humor to try to alleviate and mask his discomfort.

I think that’s very true about JB a lot of the time. Clips I’ve seen of their foreign travels definitely show that. 

[Zella]

Jim Bob is definitely one of those people who has a massive inferiority complex and covers up for it with a lot of bluster. I think that was a big part of his attraction to Gothard's teachings--it really emphasizes his role as king of the castle--and so whenever that position feels threatened, i.e. having to go visit the turf of some other person with a raging inferiority complex who covers for it with a lot of bluster, it's just an explosion of pettiness. I never watched those episodes, but the description of it sounds like Jim Bob is doing the symbolic version of peeing to mark his territory. 

Or to bring in another animal metaphor, Jim Bob and Jeremy are both banty roosters, basically, so they're both going to strut along like they're master of the universe. But nobody outside of the chicken house is very impressed with either one. 

[SMama]

Jinger was certainly impressed with Jeremy and it really upset daddy.

[Scarlett45]

42 minutes ago, SMama said:

Jinger was certainly impressed with Jeremy and it really upset daddy.

Which just makes JB look bad. Jinger had a right to be interested in a man her own age, her PEER for whom she felt sexual attraction. Thats fucking normal and not a threat to her love for her father. That patriarchal possessive bullshit.

[Jeeves]

43 minutes ago, Zella said:

Jim Bob is definitely one of those people who has a massive inferiority complex and covers up for it with a lot of bluster. I think that was a big part of his attraction to Gothard's teachings--it really emphasizes his role as king of the castle--and so whenever that position feels threatened, i.e. having to go visit the turf of some other person with a raging inferiority complex who covers for it with a lot of bluster, it's just an explosion of pettiness. I never watched those episodes, but the description of it sounds like Jim Bob is doing the symbolic version of peeing to mark his territory. 

Yep. That was my take on it back then. Jeremy sure got JB's hackles up, probably for the reasons discussed above. Jinger met Jeremy through Jessa and Ben so he wasn't introduced to her via JB, so JB didn't control that. Then IIRC Jeremy not only filled out JB's stupid 50 page questionnaire for courting hopefuls, didn't he actually hand in something like 70 pages to JB? Jeremy was older than the other sons-in-law and had a lot more experience the world, plus a job (however modestly paid) independent of Duggar Enterprises. 

JB didn't really have any good reason to prohibit Jinger (well past the age of majority, IIRC) from marrying Jeremy, and I bet it just frosted his flakes for sure. And we all know that for all his talk of wimmin belonging to their headship, and the headship is the husband for married wimmin, he doesn't want to relinquish control over any of his kids. With Derick and Bin he didn't feel threatened during their courtships, etc., but Jeremy was bad news from the start. Heh.

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Yep. That was my take on it back then. Jeremy sure got JB's hackles up, probably for the reasons discussed above. Jinger met Jeremy through Jessa and Ben so he wasn't introduced to her via JB, so JB didn't control that. Then IIRC Jeremy not only filled out JB's stupid 50 page questionnaire for courting hopefuls, didn't he actually hand in something like 70 pages to JB? Jeremy was older than the other sons-in-law and had a lot more experience the world, plus a job (however modestly paid) independent of Duggar Enterprises. 

JB didn't really have any good reason to prohibit Jinger (well past the age of majority, IIRC) from marrying Jeremy, and I bet it just frosted his flakes for sure. And we all know that for all his talk of wimmin belonging to their headship, and the headship is the husband for married wimmin, he doesn't want to relinquish control over any of his kids. With Derick and Bin he didn't feel threatened during their courtships, etc., but Jeremy was bad news from the start. Heh.

Yes, I think Jim Bob most resents the feeling that he has lost control. I know some folks had interpreted the obvious dislike between them as some sort of sign that Jeremy was somehow more enlightened than Jim Bob. But I really don't think Jeremy and Jim Bob disagree fundamentally on many topics that they hold as important. What Jim Bob disliked was being bypassed in the process because he's a creepy control freak. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Zella

[DangerousMinds]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yes, I think Jim Bob most resents the feeling that he has lost control. I know some folks had interpreted the obvious dislike between them as some sort of sign that Jeremy was somehow more enlightened than Jim Bob. But I really don't think Jeremy and Jim Bob disagree fundamentally on many topics that they hold as important. What Jim Bob disliked was being bypassed in the process because he's a creepy control freak. 

I wonder if Jeremy would still have wanted to marry Jinger if JB didn’t approve and marrying her meant eloping and being cut off from the Duggar money and fame.

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I wonder if Jeremy would still have wanted to marry Jinger if JB didn’t approve and marrying her meant eloping and being cut off from the Duggar money and fame.

I seriously doubt it. I think Jeremy loves Jinger in his own way (but in a way that is subordinate to how much he loves himself), but I don't think he was so swept away that he was moving heaven and earth to get her. He saw an opportunity to be famous and the opportunity to nab a pliant wife who wasn't going to challenge him. And I think Duggar fame was of a lot more interest to him than any potential money. I think if she had had a more forceful personality, that would have also been a dealbreaker for him too. I seriously doubt he would have given her another thought if she hadn't been a TV "star," beyond maybe "That little hick is cute."  

Edited October 15, 2020 by Zella

[ouinason]

No way y'all.  If Jinger had run off and eloped with Jeremy they would be doing their own spin off show about breaking away from the cult this very minute.  Jeremy would probably have found that to be a positive.

[Temperance]

18 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I wonder if Jeremy would still have wanted to marry Jinger if JB didn’t approve and marrying her meant eloping and being cut off from the Duggar money and fame.

At the same time, they wouldn't totally be cut off from fame and money. TLC would have to be idiots not to film an elopement and play up the drama. TLC is immoral, but not dumb. And JinJer could probably be compensated for their wedding footage.  There would be a cover story on People about Jinger's rebellious love. And maybe it would wake people not paying attention up to the fact JB is a narcisstic controlling jerk.  

 

1 minute ago, ouinason said:

No way y'all.  If Jinger had run off and eloped with Jeremy they would be doing their own spin off show about breaking away from the cult this very minute.  Jeremy would probably have found that to be a positive.

I was typing this out when you posted. I agree. 

[xwordfanatik]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I really want to re-watch the episode now. I remember thinking JB was very insecure around Jeremy. I thought JB was acting like a buffoon, using childish humor to try to alleviate and mask his discomfort.

I remember his 'swapping spit' line, in front of JereMe's parents.  I would have wanted the floor to open and swallow me, had my dad done that upon meeting Mr. Xword's parents.  What a jackass (and his braying is donkey-worthy, so it fits.)

[BitterApple]

46 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I wonder if Jeremy would still have wanted to marry Jinger if JB didn’t approve and marrying her meant eloping and being cut off from the Duggar money and fame.

My magic eight ball says "not likely." 

[GeeGolly]

I didn't see that JB didn't want Jinger to marry Jeremy. I think he was impressed with Jeremy, which is what made him insecure. I think he was actually secretly thrilled that his daughter snagged a 'classy' Fundie. Bragging rights for him. He wasn't going to let Jeremy know that though.

[SMama]

14 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I didn't see that JB didn't want Jinger to marry Jeremy. I think he was impressed with Jeremy, which is what made him insecure. I think he was actually secretly thrilled that his daughter snagged a 'classy' Fundie. Bragging rights for him. He wasn't going to let Jeremy know that though.

And he proceeded to impress the classy fundie by chomping on a muffin like a donkey, while Jeremy asked to court his daughter. I can’t stand Boob’s boorish behavior. 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, SMama said:

And he proceeded to impress the classy fundie by chomping on a muffin like a donkey, while Jeremy asked to court his daughter. I can’t stand Boob’s boorish behavior. 

Me either, I wouldn't last five minutes in a room with JB, or Michelle for that matter. They always seem to be 'on' all the time and nothing drives me nuts more than fake people.

[Albanyguy]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

Jinger was certainly impressed with Jeremy and it really upset daddy.

Besides being attracted to him, I think Jinger took a good look at Jeremy and realized that this was the man who could get her the hell out of Tontitown and provide her with a life free of tater tot casseroles, cheap flip-flops that hurt her feet and second-hand clothes that she had to share with her sisters. I don't think she ever had any intention of renouncing her core beliefs; she just wanted to shed the shabby outer trappings. Jeremy offered her the promise of a life that could be fun as well as Fundie.

I think Jim Bob felt threatened by Jeremy from the start and probably would have liked nothing better than to forbid the courtship and send him on his way. But Jeremy had come along at just the right moment. Joshgate had shredded their "perfect" image and endangered their precious relationship with TLC. Jim Bob needed a courtship and wedding to provide the fans with something positive to gush over and he had nothing else on the horizon. Plus, I think he and Michelle had always regarded Jinger as somewhat of a loose cannon. Remember the time she boldly announced that she wanted to live in a big city someday? To us, that doesn't sound bad, but to the Duggars, that was a dangerous show of independence that needed to be shut down fast. Her sisters quickly jumped on her with "How do you know that's what the Lord has planned for you?" while Michelle did damage control with "She just means she wants to live near a Wal-Mart." Jim Bob and Michelle must have seen the online comments from viewers who were rooting for Jinger to escape from their clutches and the knowledge that there was actually a website called "Free Jinger" must have given them fits. Getting her safely married off, even to a man they didn't entirely like, must have seemed like their best option.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, ouinason said:

If Jinger had run off and eloped with Jeremy they would be doing their own spin off show about breaking away from the cult this very minute.

Oh I think TLC would have liked an elopement, and I'm sure if Jeremy had to do it over again, he would probably have tried to reframe his fame away from the Duggars. I think it really chaps his ass that his wife will always be more famous than him and that the only reason anyone is interested in what he's doing is because of who he married--and the only reason anyone is interested in what she's doing is because of her freak show family.

But I really don't think that Jeremy views his in-laws as in a cult that needs to be broken away from. I'm sure he finds some of the surface trappings of their life stupid (especially the dress code and, say, the no watching TV thing), but I don't think he fundamentally disagrees with their basic beliefs. He just tries to keep his own on the DL more. I think Jeremy is one of those people who fundamentally very much wants people to like him, and it makes him act like a weasel. 

I think he likely was very intrigued by the idea that he could play Mr. Higgins to Jinger and shape her into a more fashionable being according to his own whims and desires. But I don't think he ever looked at her as someone who needed to be rescued from a cult.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

Yes, I think Jim Bob most resents the feeling that he has lost control. I know some folks had interpreted the obvious dislike between them as some sort of sign that Jeremy was somehow more enlightened than Jim Bob. But I really don't think Jeremy and Jim Bob disagree fundamentally on many topics that they hold as important. What Jim Bob disliked was being bypassed in the process because he's a creepy control freak. 

Yep. In my opinion, the real reason JB wanted all  those kids is so he could enjoy the feeling of having a whole bunch of humans he could control as much as you can control other human beings, and for as long as you can control them. Lots of stuff to ease his existential terror of not being in control of everything.

That's the only thing I can imagine that would make a middle-aged parent crazy enough to want 20-something "children" to not only continue living in their childhood bedrooms but be so lacking-in-personal-purpose that they do nothing but wait around the house all day until you tell them which lawn to mow, which younger kid to take with them to the grocery store, or which car lot to go sweep up at. (Even after they're married with children: See Duggar, Joe, he of the real-estate license, working for the day at a used-car lot.....Since when does anybody with a real-estate license do that? Never. Unless their Daddy gives them daily orders about what "jobs" they have to do.)

Edited October 15, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Growsonwalls]

The "good" thing was JB doesn't really care about his daughters, so they pretty much got to marry who they wanted to marry as long as the dude was Christian and conservative. If you look at the women the Duggar boys have married there's much more vetting that the woman is super-duper fundie. 

[Lunera]

Jinger got papped by the Daily Mail doing random shit. Aaannnd the photographer just happens to be the same woman who shot her other pap pics that appeared on Radar Online and The Sun. Wonder why her hubby, Pennywise, is never around when his wife is being "randomly" papped.

[GeeGolly]

What a nice, normal and neighborly thing to do. And Jing looks like a typical pregnant mom in jeans and a T.

[Churchhoney]

"Flourishing" increases along with physical and mental distance from the TTH. 

Who'd'a thunk it? I did. But Jim Bob and Meeechelle not so much. 

Stop crippling your kids, you jerks. 

[Jeeves]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

What a nice, normal and neighborly thing to do. And Jing looks like a typical pregnant mom in jeans and a T.

. . . and of course, no mask. Yeah, she's outdoors but she's coming close enough to her neighbor to hand her the arrangement. 

How coincidental that the pap was lurking outside just when Jinge came out with the flowers. **snert**

[Churchhoney]

49 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

. . . and of course, no mask. Yeah, she's outdoors but she's coming close enough to her neighbor to hand her the arrangement. 

How coincidental that the pap was lurking outside just when Jinge came out with the flowers. **snert**

As I read recently in an article about people calling paparazzi to photograph them  -- "Farrah Abraham of Teen Mom and adult film fame regularly calls photographers to follow her around, because, well, no one else would."

No one really believes you're mad at the photographer, Jingle.

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by Churchhoney

[leighdear]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

. . . and of course, no mask. Yeah, she's outdoors but she's coming close enough to her neighbor to hand her the arrangement. 

How coincidental that the pap was lurking outside just when Jinge came out with the flowers. **snert**

There's no picture of her within 6 feet of the neighbor. 

She could easily have set the vase down, moved back, neighbor moves forward to pick up the vase, then moves back to the doorway. 

This happens in my neighborhood numerous times a day, as we all know each other, our houses are close and we lend/borrow things freely.  We don't necessarily wear masks for these activities, but we are careful to keep our distance.  

Edited October 16, 2020 by leighdear

[Tikichick]

20 hours ago, Zella said:

Yes, I think Jim Bob most resents the feeling that he has lost control. I know some folks had interpreted the obvious dislike between them as some sort of sign that Jeremy was somehow more enlightened than Jim Bob. But I really don't think Jeremy and Jim Bob disagree fundamentally on many topics that they hold as important. What Jim Bob disliked was being bypassed in the process because he's a creepy control freak. 

Not too long ago I had commented about the obvious posturing between them when Jeremy came to their hotel room to give them their instructions when they were in town to surprise Jinger at her "surprise" birthday party.  It was obvious Jeremy was relishing his position of control in the situation, while JB was obviously rather cowed in the situation.

I found it amusing because it's exactly the kind of behavior JB exerts when males enter the picture to court and wed his daughters -- and usually the brothers are recruited to provide backup to add some more humiliation factor and make it clear Duggars dominate.  Funny how all of that collapses when there's any semblance of the real world involved.  The Duggar machismo disappears into the ether like it's a mirage. 

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, Lunera said:

Jinger got papped by the Daily Mail doing random shit. Aaannnd the photographer just happens to be the same woman who shot her other pap pics that appeared on Radar Online and The Sun. Wonder why her hubby, Pennywise, is never around when his wife is being "randomly" papped.

Okay, so sad thoughts about this keep popping up unbidden in my brain. Maybe if I write them down, that'll stop.....

Obviously, they (Jer) wouldn't pay a photographer to do this if they (he) didn't think/hope that pictures like this will actually help them turn their itty-bitty amount of fame into jobs, careers, money, real prestige, stuff stuff and more stuff (shoes!). They (Jer) don't look for fame for fame's sake but in the hope that it'll really change their lives/his life for the better, and for the long term.

But if I quickly realize that this is "a photo spread they paid to have a 'paparazza' shoot, since nobody's going to follow Jingle around all the time so they can capture the moment when she does something interesting," then everybody who has jobs/careers/money/prestige to hand out will see that immediately and will never ever ever offer a job/career/money/prestige to them....Everybody they/he hope/s to entice will immediately see this for what it is and think "lame and pitiful...you can smell the desperation....next...." 

So Jingle's doing her bad acting -- which I think clearly makes her uncomfortable although maybe I'm reading in -- for nothing. But I'm sure Jer assures her she's helping build their great future.

I doubt that anybody has ever achieved real career success in media/entertainment/advertising by paying for obviously set-up phony "Grrrr! Paps!!!" pictures that capitalize on minor fame of the kind D-list reality TeeVee "stars!" have. Anybody know of a D-lister for whom that's worked? Lifted them to the C-list? Because I really can't imagine it.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Ohiopirate02]

33 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Okay, so sad thoughts about this keep popping up unbidden in my brain. Maybe if I write them down, that'll stop.....

Obviously, they (Jer) wouldn't pay a photographer to do this if they (he) didn't think/hope that pictures like this will actually help them turn their itty-bitty amount of fame into jobs, careers, money, real prestige, stuff stuff and more stuff (shoes!). They (Jer) don't look for fame for fame's sake but in the hope that it'll really change their lives/his life for the better, and for the long term.

But if I quickly realize that this is "a photo spread they paid to have a 'paparazza' shoot, since nobody's going to follow Jingle around all the time so they can capture the moment when she does something interesting," then everybody who has jobs/careers/money/prestige to hand out will see that immediately and will never ever ever offer a job/career/money/prestige to them....Everybody they/he hope/s to entice will immediately see this for what it is and think "lame and pitiful...you can smell the desperation....next...." 

So Jingle's doing her bad acting -- which I think clearly makes her uncomfortable although maybe I'm reading in -- for nothing. But I'm sure Jer assures her she's helping build their great future.

I doubt that anybody has ever achieved real career success in media/entertainment/advertising by paying for obviously set-up phony "Grrrr! Paps!!!" pictures that capitalize on minor fame of the kind D-list reality TeeVee "stars!" have. Anybody know of a D-lister for whom that's worked? Lifted them to the C-list? Because I really can't imagine it.

I can actually see at least one photographer who would show up to "catch" Jinger.  Covid has really done a number on celebrity events and even celebrity sightings.  The celebrity rags need content and the photographers need the job.  So anytime someone's "people" call, there has to be at least one desperate enough to snap some pictures of Jinger.  

[Lunera]

I think it's their publicist calling the paps, his name also happens to be Jeremy.